Frugal Living: Jan 14, 2008

Monday, January 14, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home envy and pride
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/473445cf4b5a8b03?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:53 pm
From: "Lou"

<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ot1no39m1skj50t69kangercl1e58thpve@4ax.com...
> The other home show I watched last night was on some couples "moving
> up," with couple A selling their old home to couple B who then sold
> their old home to couple C. Each couple hated the decorating of the
> previous owners, even though those owners had spent a lot of effort
> and money making their homes into what they thought were showcases.
>
> I guess that the snarky comments and snide remarks about bad taste
> were good television for this era of viewers. However, they were at
> the same time juvenile and happened to reinforce my thoughts that
> building and decorating a home to impress other people makes as much
> sense as gilding a barn. Unless you find a cow that appreciates gold
> colored beams, you are wasting your efforts.
>
> IMO, having a home that is comfortable and meets the needs of the
> occupants is a much saner approach to decorating than spending money
> trying to impress guests that may be in the home for a few hours a
> year. Skimping on decorator frou frou can be a good way to save money
> and time spent cleaning.
>
> Harry, constantly amazed at how callous people can be in judging
> others sensibilities.

Thanks - it's been a whole day since I felt a frisson of irony.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 5:07 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:53:17 -0500, "Lou"
<lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote:

>> Harry, constantly amazed at how callous people can be in judging
>> others sensibilities.
>
>Thanks - it's been a whole day since I felt a frisson of irony.

Good catch!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Plastic grocery bag debate question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76c040c2f7b9f6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:54 pm
From: clams_casino

Lou wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:fiSij.9013$OC1.3569@newsfe20.lga...
>
>
>>pc wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Greetings group..
>>>
>>>I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>>>banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>>>
>>>While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
>>>use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry
>>>home a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
>>>
>>>So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
>>>plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
>>>other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
>>>[which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
>>>
>>>I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel
>>>I use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
>>>biodegradable bag!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>It all comes down to where you want your pollution. Cities want to
>>keep it out of their back yard & back at the paper mill, so they like
>>paper. Plastic bags can be made with minimal pollution, but end up in
>>the land fills.
>>
>>Key is to reuse often and/or use neither - use a cloth bag - over and
>>over and over.
>>
>>
>
>If it's OK to reuse a cloth bag, why isn't it OK to reuse a plastic bag?
>
>
>
>
never suggested not to. In fact, I suggested "Key is to reuse often
and/or use neither....."

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 5:00 pm
From: clams_casino

pc wrote:

> larry wrote:
>
>> George wrote:
>>
>>> hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:00:00 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Greetings group..
>>>>>
>>>>> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and
>>>>> China banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA
>>>>> teeshirt bags].
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And the proposed alternative is...?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No government requirement here but stores here offer inexpensive
>>> logoed reusable canvas bags with carrying handles as an alternative.
>>
>>
>> Dallas Krogers now sell $1 each reusable 100% non-woven polypropylene
>> bags to replace the plastic/paper bags. A bag will fit 6 standing 2
>> liter bottles and is 1 inch taller. They also have a $3 insulated
>> bag. Kroger credits 5 cents each time you use the bag.
>>
>> I shopped for inexpensive ~canvas~ totes like this for 20 years. But
>> $9 in quantity just never cut it. Our 3 bags easily carry what used
>> to fill 10 plastic bags (15, since 1/2 of those were double bagged).
>> And they are getting a lot more use than just at Krogers, they are
>> great bags. We keep them in the car, ready for use.
>>
>> Wish someone would have done this when the great paper/plastic debate
>> started! We would have saved many trees, both wood and plastic ;-)
>> Europeans used store totes for many many years.
>>
>> The bag maker site is http://www.earthwisebags.com
>>
>> -- larry / dallas
>
>
> But..how do you deal with your household garbage? Do you just throw
> everything into the household cans and then into a larger garbage bin?
> And then either take the bin to the dump, or put it out for pickup?
>
> Then do you have to scrub out the various household cans?

All our glass & cans as well as most paper items & plastic bottles are
recycled via curbside pickup. The containers only need to be rinsed -
not scrubbed, etc.

>
> If I felt confident enough in my garbage collectors, I'd gladly just
> put everything in without a bag. But, they have a tendency to strew
> things about. If I had everything loose in the bin I think it would
> not be good.

We do use plastic bags for what's left. We recycled all our plastic
grocery bags via wrapping (water proofing) items we sell via eBay and
the few paper bags we get are used to hold the recycleable scrap paper,
mailing circulars, shredded bills/ mail, etc although most of our bills
are now electronic..

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Internet TV vs regular TV?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f04f08d896e09fd2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 5:06 pm
From: "Leroy"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Question...rather than viewing TV shows on your
> computer via TV signal input..... how possible is it to
> get TV shows right OFF the Internet period thereby
> bypassing the normal channels for TV anyway?

Extremely easy. And legal if you avoid the 'P2P' accesses.

Here's a meta index of iptv stuff:

http://www.ovguide.com/

Also, for regular over the air TV, a TV tuner card for your
PC works well. Can be combined with your graphics card
like this:
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeon9800/aiw9800pro/index.html

Joost.com is a free site with lots of content.

In the US, you can view network shows from the network's
website. At your leisure, after they've originally been
telecast.

If it's a choice twixt TV and PC, choose PC, you can always
use it as above.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 5:29 pm
From: "Leroy"

a few more links. BTW, you do realize that you
need highspeed internet, not dial-up?

http://tvunderground.org.ru/
http://www.freetvsearch.com
http://www.craftytv.com
http://www.tvlinkvault.com
http://www.freetvsearch.com/
http://www.surfthechannel.com/
http://www.ssupload.com/
http://www.videolemon.com
http://movies.nabolister.com
http://flickpeek.com
http://www.findtvlinks.com/
http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/90965/Watch_Any
http://www.joost.com/
http://www.ovguide.com/
http://www.watchtvsitcoms.com/simpsons.php
http://www15.alluc.org/alluc/
http://www.live-online-tv.com/
http://www.findago.com/series/
http://online-television.tv/
http://www.craftytv.com/
http://beeline.tv/
http://www.movies-on-demand.tv/
http://www.peekvid.com/
http://aknof.blogspot.com/2007/01/free-goodies-for
http://quicksilverscreen.com/
http://Alloftv.net
http://joox.net
http://quicksilverscreen.com/ipb/
http://www.videolemon.com
http://movies.nabolister.com
http://flickpeek.com
http://showstash.com
http://teevee4me.com
http://wheeya.com
http://emuduel.com
http://www.findago.com/series/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best cheap LED flashlight from Walmart?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/289e1ab2c0f56d4c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 7:32 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <afcc5079-dd7a-4c79-bde1-5d8cee72b995@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Al
Bundy wrote:
>On Jan 14, 3:09 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
>> Are any of the LED flashlights sold at Walmart any
>> good?
>>
>> Some are 3 watt units for abt $20
>
>Are you sure about that 3 watts and what it means? That would be very
>high draw for an LED flashlight.

That is the nominal power rating of the LED. It may have less power
than that delivered to it.

>I like the concept of the LED efficiency as far as power consumption.
>However, it generally takes an array of several bulbs to provide any
>useful light. They seem to work best in total darkness. I have found
>that in partial light conditions, you sometimes can't tell the LED is
>doing anything. For example, I tried to use one on the street under a
>car shining up at the engine while lying under the vehicle in daytime.
>It was still dark enough to need light. The LED did not help much. A
>regular incandescent light would have worked much better. So it
>depends on your need to save energy or have useful light. Also, all
>LEDs are not the same. One bulb can be twice as bright as another.
>
>They purposely package those things so you can't test them in the
>store. Hopefully, someone can provide more specific model information
>for you here.

Actually, I find LED flashlights to be more likely to have a "Try Me"
pushbotton for testing in the store than flashlights with non-LED
technology.

Meanwhile, I have a few evaluation results of ones available at Sears
and Target:

Dorcy models with high power LEDs are ones I find to do well. However,
they are "unregulated", meaning light output droops as the batteries
weaken. However, they tend to not be worse than incandescents in that
area, since incandescents have a major decrease in energy efficiency when
they are dimmed and LEDs do not. Leave such a Dorcy LED flashlight on for
a day, and it will glow somewhat usefully - maybe even for 4 days.

I also like the Mag 3-AA LED flashlight. However, I found the 2-AA Mag
LED flashlight a little wimpy.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:04 pm
From: Jeff

Don Klipstein wrote:
> In <afcc5079-dd7a-4c79-bde1-5d8cee72b995@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, Al
> Bundy wrote:
>> On Jan 14, 3:09 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
>>> Are any of the LED flashlights sold at Walmart any
>>> good?
>>>
>>> Some are 3 watt units for abt $20
>> Are you sure about that 3 watts and what it means? That would be very
>> high draw for an LED flashlight.
>
> That is the nominal power rating of the LED. It may have less power
> than that delivered to it.
>
>> I like the concept of the LED efficiency as far as power consumption.
>> However, it generally takes an array of several bulbs to provide any
>> useful light. They seem to work best in total darkness. I have found
>> that in partial light conditions, you sometimes can't tell the LED is
>> doing anything. For example, I tried to use one on the street under a
>> car shining up at the engine while lying under the vehicle in daytime.
>> It was still dark enough to need light. The LED did not help much. A
>> regular incandescent light would have worked much better. So it
>> depends on your need to save energy or have useful light. Also, all
>> LEDs are not the same. One bulb can be twice as bright as another.
>>
>> They purposely package those things so you can't test them in the
>> store. Hopefully, someone can provide more specific model information
>> for you here.
>
> Actually, I find LED flashlights to be more likely to have a "Try Me"
> pushbotton for testing in the store than flashlights with non-LED
> technology.
>
> Meanwhile, I have a few evaluation results of ones available at Sears
> and Target:
>
> Dorcy models with high power LEDs are ones I find to do well. However,
> they are "unregulated", meaning light output droops as the batteries
> weaken. However, they tend to not be worse than incandescents in that
> area, since incandescents have a major decrease in energy efficiency when
> they are dimmed and LEDs do not. Leave such a Dorcy LED flashlight on for
> a day, and it will glow somewhat usefully - maybe even for 4 days.

Almost all the Amish I knew had a one AAA Dorcy LED light. Just enough
light to get around and very small, but dependable.

Jeff
>
> I also like the Mag 3-AA LED flashlight. However, I found the 2-AA Mag
> LED flashlight a little wimpy.
>
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why do people stay in overpriced real estate markets?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56d80a4d61e1222e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 7:54 pm
From: Gene S. Berkowitz

In article <67tno35n0f9g6ijv436vbcra0erq0vkq59@4ax.com>,
hchickpea@hotmail.com says...
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:40:41 -0800 (PST), BeaForoni@msn.com wrote:
>
> > Folks who live lives full of experiences and opportunities live full
> >lives. People who live life always looking for the cheapest way tend
> >to feel life is cheap and never really enjoy the richness of human
> >existense.
>
> I understand your point, but it isn't as cut-n-dried as that. I just
> escaped the South Florida real estate bust after having lived there
> for twenty years. I had the rich and full experience of the area, and
> watched it change for the worse, even as the real estate bubble was
> driving prices up. I've also lived in a number of other cities and
> towns, including NYC and Atlanta. Aside from the Broadway plays,
> concerts, and larger selection of dining choices, the big cities
> didn't seem to offer much in exchange for the increased costs. Riding
> the subway? Dealing with crowded elevators? Rush hour traffic?
> These may be vibrant signs of life, but since I'm not an extrovert, I
> don't crave them.
>
> One aspect of my confusion is that I need a certain amount of space to
> feel comfortable, and a certain amount of stability to feel
> financially secure. I don't understand living in an 800 sf condo for
> $500K plus taxes and insurance, if there is the option of living for
> less than half that cost in a far larger paid-for home with decent
> ammenities, where income doesn't go into a black hole.
>
> I'm aware of the equity argument, and agree that sometimes it works,
> but in many areas that equity is a false gain, once you deduct the
> outrageous property taxes and insurance that have been paid over the
> same period.

One aspect of what makes a town or city desireable is strong local
control over building and development. Areas whose "boom" is really
just sprawl are the hardest hit when a downturn slows the speculation
that drove it to begin with.

Cities and towns that contain sprawl, through a simple lack of space,
and/or tough building codes, zoning, and historic preservation
requirements, tend to maintain the character that made them attractive
in the first place.

--Gene

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Gene S. Berkowitz <first.last@verizon.net> wrote:
> In article <67tno35n0f9g6ijv436vbcra0erq0vkq59@4ax.com>,
> hchickpea@hotmail.com says...
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:40:41 -0800 (PST), BeaForoni@msn.com wrote:
>>
>>> Folks who live lives full of experiences and opportunities live full
>>> lives. People who live life always looking for the cheapest way tend
>>> to feel life is cheap and never really enjoy the richness of human
>>> existense.
>>
>> I understand your point, but it isn't as cut-n-dried as that. I just
>> escaped the South Florida real estate bust after having lived there
>> for twenty years. I had the rich and full experience of the area,
>> and watched it change for the worse, even as the real estate bubble
>> was driving prices up. I've also lived in a number of other cities
>> and towns, including NYC and Atlanta. Aside from the Broadway plays,
>> concerts, and larger selection of dining choices, the big cities
>> didn't seem to offer much in exchange for the increased costs.
>> Riding the subway? Dealing with crowded elevators? Rush hour
>> traffic? These may be vibrant signs of life, but since I'm not an
>> extrovert, I don't crave them.
>>
>> One aspect of my confusion is that I need a certain amount of space
>> to feel comfortable, and a certain amount of stability to feel
>> financially secure. I don't understand living in an 800 sf condo for
>> $500K plus taxes and insurance, if there is the option of living for
>> less than half that cost in a far larger paid-for home with decent
>> ammenities, where income doesn't go into a black hole.
>>
>> I'm aware of the equity argument, and agree that sometimes it works,
>> but in many areas that equity is a false gain, once you deduct the
>> outrageous property taxes and insurance that have been paid over the
>> same period.
>
> One aspect of what makes a town or city desireable is strong local
> control over building and development. Areas whose "boom" is really
> just sprawl are the hardest hit when a downturn slows the speculation
> that drove it to begin with.
>
> Cities and towns that contain sprawl, through a simple lack of space,
> and/or tough building codes, zoning, and historic preservation
> requirements, tend to maintain the character that made them attractive
> in the first place.

And they also tend to drive up the cost of that property too.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: insurance is important in our life
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/770bacbc09e6dcda?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 8:17 pm
From: "r.sherya@gmail.com"

insurance is important in our life
****************************************
http://padmagirl.blogspot.com
****************************************

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:35 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

r.sherya@gmail.com wrote:

> insurance is important in our life

Taint important in mine.

> ****************************************
> http://padmagirl.blogspot.com
> ****************************************

==============================================================================
TOPIC: temporary health insurance for a recent graduate
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca3c7cbfde6133a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 8:31 pm
From: P

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:09:46 GMT, Gordon wrote:

>>
>
> As a young man (or woman, you didn't say) in good health you are
> probably not going to have any health problems that will need
> critical care. I would almost argue that you don't need health
> insurance.
>
> What you need to do is figure out what you want your insurance
> to cover. Comprehensive coverage (that pays for everything)
> will come with a high price tag. On the other hand, if you
> are willing to pay for some of the basics, you can get catastophic
> coverage (major medical) that pays for only the realy big bad
> expensive stuff.

Thanks for the suggestions.
The problem is there are some like http://tinyurl.com/323u9k
whose premium is 18/per month but the agent mentioned if I get these, and
get some ailment, then try to get under my employer's insurance(when I get
a job) my ailment will not be covered by employer's insurance as this
coverage is not credible coverage as it is temp coverage. So, it will be a
pre-existing condition(in case i get an ailment). So, the agent suggested
me to get something like http://tinyurl.com/2skdkg

which has a premium of 109 per month, but which is considered credible
coverage.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 8:38 pm
From: P

Thanks for your detailed suggestions.
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 18:22:45 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

> That covers the basics, Gordon. I have to add a few things, based on
> the system the way it is now.
>
> Number one, I would be only looking for catastrophic coverage with the
> possibility of adding features later. As you point out, the chances
> are that nothing (short of a traffic accident which would be covered
> under auto insurance) will happen in the short term.

Yes, but there are some caveats in those as I mentioned above.
> Number two, at that age especially, I would ONLY be looking at plans
> that are valid in a number of states, meaning truly transportable.
> BC/BS plans can be state specific, small insurers may only be licensed
> in one or two states and have minimal reserves.

Which plans are truly transportable and affordable? Plans which allow you
flexibility have more premium or higher deductibles.

>With the possibility
> of having to move because of job opportunities, it is important that
> the insurance can follow. That leads into #3-
>
> Number three, I would KEEP MY OWN insurance, no matter how much the
> cost or trivial the payouts, EVEN IF THE EMPLOYER OFFERED INSURANCE.
> Why? At age 24 a person can find a policy that is multi-state,
> non-cancellable, and has a low rate. Once the first year of payments
> have been made, there is generally no exclusion for "pre-existing"
> conditions. Why is this important? Let's say the OP develops
> diabetes or a heart condition is detected at age 26 and he or she is
> only covered by the employer's insurance. Now lets say the OP quits,
> gets fired, or the company goes out of business within five years (the
> chances of one of these happening is well over 50% IME). The OP is
> now shit outta luck. There is no COBRA if the company goes out of
> business, and finding a new insurance company that will cover the
> biggies like diabetes, heart ailments, and depression will be
> ***IMPOSSIBLE*** at that time except at greatly inflated rates.
> Insurers only want to insure well people.

I agree, but it is expensive also if you later on decide to get married and
have children. Most people depend on their employer for health insurance.

> The whole concept of employer supplied insurance is totally flawed
> from the point of view of a worker. First, the savings vs having your
> own policy, if in good health, are minimal. Employers know that
> offering insurance allows them to offer less as a salary and, if their
> hiring choice of employees is right, keep their contributory costs at
> a minimum. Secondly, and because of this, use of the employer's
> policy raises flags in most companies and in some small companies can
> lead to termination (often for some trumped-up other reason). Third,
> the insurance becomes a club that the employer can hold over the head
> of the employee to keep them from asking for a raise or even quitting.
> Fourth, it allows at least the gatekeeper (usually human resources) at
> the company to pry into personal medical history. Fifth, companies
> can and do eliminate insurance plans as dictated by their own
> financial needs.
Agreed, but mergers between insurance companies can also lead to this.

>Sixth, a single sick worker in a small company can
> create a rate hike for all workers. Seventh, fighting with the
> insurance company for fair payments of expenses becomes tantamount to
> fighting with the employer.

> What the OP needs to find is an insurer that is solid and has been
> around for a while, has a policy that covers a large group and is
> NON_CANCELLABLE, and is transportable across state lines. The OP
> should then plan on keeping that policy until retirement.

Would you recommend any?

> Mark my words, there are thousands and thousands of people who have
> depended on insurance from employers, found themselves out on the
> street, had financial disaster, and lost a lifetime of savings, all
> because they couldn't afford healthcare.
>
> The final caveat is that the OP must be brutally honest in the
> original application and list every doctor visited, every prescription
> filled, and make absolutely sure that there are no problems not listed
> on the application. It is a lot more profitable for an insurance
> company to accept an application that lies, and then only do the due
> diligence once a disease or event has occured, denying coverage, and
> cancelling the policy at the worst possible time. It can even pay the
> applicant to get an independent physical from a doctor (including
> x-rays and full blood work), certifying that there are no apparent
> problems as of the date of application.

Amen, your words are very correct. I will remember that.

Thanks again.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 8:47 pm
From: P

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:16:12 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

>
> What matters more is whether you smoke and do drugs or not.

No, neither do I play sports which are more chances of injury. Don't have a
car and neither do I drink also.

>> I have started looking for full time jobs, but until I get coverage
>> through my employer I want to have some sort of coverage for
>> catastrophic matters. I cannot come under my parent's coverage
>> (as they are self-employed so have to get their own). I can work
>> for some place(WalMart, McDonald) full time to get coverage, but
>> I would rather spend all my time searching for jobs than working at
>> those places just for the sake of health insurance. Working full time
>> at one job will reduce the available time to job searching.
>
>> I have browsed the web and talked to a few agents, but
>> the more agents I talk to the more confused I become as
>> to which plan to choose. Some offer a premium of 100/month
>> and some as low as 30/month(which have a high deductible
>> of 2500 and which cannot be considered credible coverage)
>
> Wrong at that age and you only want catestrophy coverage.
>
> Not clear what this is about.
It is about some plans like
http://consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com/wps/portal/cwsales/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd473DAHJmMU7xYc46kcii1jEewbDRXw98nNT9YOAMpHmQLVGFmb6UTmp6YnJlfrB-t76AfoFuaER5d6OjgBpqrdy/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lKSi9vQXd3QUFNWWdBQ0VJUWhDRUVJaEZLQSEvNEZHZ2RZbktKMEZSb1hmckNIZGgvN19CXzI4Ni8zOS9zYS5zcGZfQWN0aW9uTGlzdGVuZXI!?PC_7_B_286_spf_strutsAction=!2fviewPlanDetailsAction.do!3fdispatch%3dsuccess!26planId%3d25!26toScreen%3dQuoteResults#7_B_286
where the charge is 18/month but they are not considered credible.
The agent mentioned if I get these, and
get some ailment, then try to get under my employer's insurance(when I get
a job) my ailment will not be covered by employer's insurance as this
coverage is not credible coverage as it is temp coverage. So, it will be a
pre-existing condition(in case i get an ailment). So, the agent suggested
me to get something like
http://consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com/wps/portal/cwsales/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd473DAHJmMU7xYc46kcii1jEewbDRXw98nNT9YOAMpHmQLVGFmb6UTmp6YnJlfrB-t76AfoFuaER5d6OjgBpqrdy/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lKSi9vQXd3QUFNWWdBQ0VJUWhDRUVJaEZLQSEvNEZHZ2RZbktKMEZSb1hmckNIZGgvN19CXzI4Ni85NC9zYS5zcGZfQWN0aW9uTGlzdGVuZXI!?PC_7_B_286_spf_strutsAction=!2fviewPlanDetailsAction.do!3fdispatch%3dsuccess!26planId%3d27!26toScreen%3dQuoteResults#7_B_286

which has a premium of 109 per month, but which is considered credible
coverage.

Sorry, for the long links. Tried making it shorter but did not work. Hope
the long ones do.

>
>> Is it better to get a premium of 100/month
>> or the one with 30/month would be fine?
>
> The cheap one would be fine if you just want catastrophe
> cover and arent into high injury rate sports etc.
>
>> I generally visit the doctor once a year,
>
> Why do you even visit the doctor that often at that age ?
I did not realize visiting the doctor typically once a year due to high
temperature or cold can be considered very often. Well, I could have stayed
at home, rested and probably could have recovered in some 3-4 days but
going to the doctor helped me get better soon and not miss classes.

> And it makes no sense to cover that with insurance anyway.
Yes, obviously.
Thanks for your reply.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 8:54 pm
From: P

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 23:55:33 -0600, Logan Shaw wrote:

> Nevertheless, there are some basic questions you can ask that help
> you understand policies and compare them to each other. These are,
> to me, the essential differences between insurance policies.

Thanks for your useful suggestions. I was mainly puzzled by some plans
which have a premium of 18/month like
http://consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com/wps/portal/cwsales/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd473DAHJmMU7xYc46kcii1jEewbDRXw98nNT9YOAMpHmQLVGFmb6UTmp6YnJlfrB-t76AfoFuaER5d6OjgBpqrdy/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lKSi9vQXd3QUFNWWdBQ0VJUWhDRUVJaEZLQSEvNEZHZ2RZbktKMEZSb1hmckNIZGgvN19CXzI4Ni8zOS9zYS5zcGZfQWN0aW9uTGlzdGVuZXI!?PC_7_B_286_spf_strutsAction=!2fviewPlanDetailsAction.do!3fdispatch%3dsuccess!26planId%3d25!26toScreen%3dQuoteResults#7_B_286
whose features are
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
BlueOptions
Limited Benefits - Hospital and Surgical
Plan 72
With BlueOptions Hospital and Surgical insurance policy, you get
"catastrophic" coverage for major illnesses and emergencies requiring
hospitalization or surgery. It's perfect for healthy individuals who don't
visit the doctor often or take many prescription drugs.

The Hospital and Surgical plan is a lower-priced option that offers
peace-of-mind, covering you and your family if you need hospitalization or
have a serious illness. This plan provides benefits for covered inpatient
and outpatient hospital charges and physician services for covered hospital
admissions, plus it includes:

Well child care physician visits
Emergency room trips, even if you are not admitted to the hospital or if no
surgical services are performed
Diagnostic services related to surgery (X-rays, ultrasounds and CAT scans)
Adult preventive screenings (mammogram, osteoporosis)
Pharmacy program with discounts on generic prescription drugs
Child only coverage for children ages one to 17
And, as with all BlueOptions health plans, you can choose an in-network or
out-of-network provider or facility, with maximum savings if you stay
within the network. The choice is yours.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

and others like
http://consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com/wps/portal/cwsales/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd473DAHJmMU7xYc46kcii1jEewbDRXw98nNT9YOAMpHmQLVGFmb6UTmp6YnJlfrB-t76AfoFuaER5d6OjgBpqrdy/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lKSi9vQXd3QUFNWWdBQ0VJUWhDRUVJaEZLQSEvNEZHZ2RZbktKMEZSb1hmckNIZGgvN19CXzI4Ni85NC9zYS5zcGZfQWN0aW9uTGlzdGVuZXI!?PC_7_B_286_spf_strutsAction=!2fviewPlanDetailsAction.do!3fdispatch%3dsuccess!26planId%3d27!26toScreen%3dQuoteResults#7_B_286
whose features are
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
BlueOptions
Predictable Cost
Plan 3
Customers choose BlueOptions insurance policies for their maximum
flexibility, significant cost savings and access to excellent physicians
and hospitals. BlueOptions Conventional Plans offer comprehensive medical
coverage - including preventative care and pharmacy programs - at an
affordable cost. There are no referrals required, and you can maximize your
savings by using our extensive NetworkBlue provider network.

BlueOptions Conventional Plans include plans with low, predictable
copayments for covered office visits and low calendar year deductibles and
coinsurance. The choice is yours. Other features include:

A variety of deductibles to choose from
Low copayments for network physician office visits
Fixed copayments on other covered services from select providers
Coverage for well care and preventative care with no deductibles
Coverage for outpatient therapies (speech, physical, occupational, cardiac,
massage and spinal therapies included)
Comprehensive pharmacy program for generic or brand name prescription drugs
Plus, you can add maternity benefits and child only coverage is available
for children ages one to 17.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Choosing the 18/month plan endangers me in case I develop something within
the time my employer insurance comes in, but is quite affordable. The next
is expensive but considered credible coverage.

What would be a good choice in this case?
Thanks

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 8:55 pm
From: P

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:36:33 -0500, Melissa wrote:

> Our oldest son got Catastrophic coverage a few years ago. He was working
> summers at a Camp, and the chance of him being hurt were higher than normal.
> He bought his through State Farm. I think he bought it for 4 months at a
> time, and it cost about $60 a month. It didn't cover doctor visits or
> smaller expenses, but had he been hospitalized, it would have kicked in if
> the bills ran over $1500 or so. Thankfully, he never needed it, but it was
> nice to know he was covered if he had gotten hurt. One trip to the
> emergency room can easily run well over $2k.
>
> Melissa

Thanks. I will look into State Farm.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:40 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

P <test@test.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:16:12 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>>
>> What matters more is whether you smoke and do drugs or not.
>
> No, neither do I play sports which are more chances of injury. Don't
> have a car and neither do I drink also.
>
>>> I have started looking for full time jobs, but until I get coverage
>>> through my employer I want to have some sort of coverage for
>>> catastrophic matters. I cannot come under my parent's coverage
>>> (as they are self-employed so have to get their own). I can work
>>> for some place(WalMart, McDonald) full time to get coverage, but
>>> I would rather spend all my time searching for jobs than working at
>>> those places just for the sake of health insurance. Working full
>>> time at one job will reduce the available time to job searching.
>>
>>> I have browsed the web and talked to a few agents, but
>>> the more agents I talk to the more confused I become as
>>> to which plan to choose. Some offer a premium of 100/month
>>> and some as low as 30/month(which have a high deductible
>>> of 2500 and which cannot be considered credible coverage)
>>
>> Wrong at that age and you only want catestrophy coverage.
>>
>> Not clear what this is about.
> It is about some plans like
> http://consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com/wps/portal/cwsales/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd473DAHJmMU7xYc46kcii1jEewbDRXw98nNT9YOAMpHmQLVGFmb6UTmp6YnJlfrB-t76AfoFuaER5d6OjgBpqrdy/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lKSi9vQXd3QUFNWWdBQ0VJUWhDRUVJaEZLQSEvNEZHZ2RZbktKMEZSb1hmckNIZGgvN19CXzI4Ni8zOS9zYS5zcGZfQWN0aW9uTGlzdGVuZXI!?PC_7_B_286_spf_strutsAction=!2fviewPlanDetailsAction.do!3fdispatch%3dsuccess!26planId%3d25!26toScreen%3dQuoteResults#7_B_286
> where the charge is 18/month but they are not considered credible.
> The agent mentioned if I get these, and
> get some ailment, then try to get under my employer's insurance(when
> I get a job) my ailment will not be covered by employer's insurance
> as this coverage is not credible coverage as it is temp coverage. So,
> it will be a pre-existing condition(in case i get an ailment). So,
> the agent suggested me to get something like
> http://consumerdirect.bcbsfl.com/wps/portal/cwsales/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLd473DAHJmMU7xYc46kcii1jEewbDRXw98nNT9YOAMpHmQLVGFmb6UTmp6YnJlfrB-t76AfoFuaER5d6OjgBpqrdy/delta/base64xml/L0lJSk03dWlDU1lKSi9vQXd3QUFNWWdBQ0VJUWhDRUVJaEZLQSEvNEZHZ2RZbktKMEZSb1hmckNIZGgvN19CXzI4Ni85NC9zYS5zcGZfQWN0aW9uTGlzdGVuZXI!?PC_7_B_286_spf_strutsAction=!2fviewPlanDetailsAction.do!3fdispatch%3dsuccess!26planId%3d27!26toScreen%3dQuoteResults#7_B_286
> which has a premium of 109 per month, but which is considered credible
> coverage.
>
>
> Sorry, for the long links. Tried making it shorter but did not work.
> Hope the long ones do.
>
>>
>>> Is it better to get a premium of 100/month
>>> or the one with 30/month would be fine?
>>
>> The cheap one would be fine if you just want catastrophe
>> cover and arent into high injury rate sports etc.
>>
>>> I generally visit the doctor once a year,
>>
>> Why do you even visit the doctor that often at that age ?

> I did not realize visiting the doctor typically once a year due
> to high temperature or cold can be considered very often.

Pointless bothering with a doctor for a cold unless you
need the doctor's visit to get the time off work etc.

> Well, I could have stayed at home, rested and probably could have recovered
> in some 3-4 days but going to the doctor helped me get better soon

Nope, not with a cold it doesnt.

> and not miss classes.

>> And it makes no sense to cover that with insurance anyway.

> Yes, obviously.
> Thanks for your reply.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: greetings
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/323ac93d2cee4ce6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:33 pm
From: manmathan09@gmail.com

greetings
wish you a happy married life
****************************************
http://padmagirl.blogspot.com
****************************************

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Top 5 Things To Ask About A School For Massage Therapy
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d7bc91433f0520e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 9:42 pm
From: 88059355

In the course of studying all of the different options when it comes
to massage therapy schools, I have generated five useful questions to
ask yourself when studying the huge amount of therapeutic massage
schools you can attend. Like any great career change, certain facts
must be studied before you dive in. A normal sized city will have at
least 5 or more therapeutic massage schools in the area. Research has
shown that one therapeutic massage school can be quite unique from the
next. Hence, your first large choice should be which school to attend.
Hopefully, the following questions will help you come to a decision.

Question number 1: How do I pay for it? When you see the cost of
becoming a licensed massage therapist against the cost of a bachelors
degree, even one which runs in upwards of $9,000.00 is far less
expensive than a 4 year college alternative, which currently would
cost $72,000 or more to complete.. Even so, most of us do not have
$5,000 - $9,000 lying around to place in an education. Therefore,
financial aid is important to consider. Consider this: All federal
loans and grants for education can be paid only to students attending
federally accredited schools. Look for a reputable accreditation, such
as the Integrative Massage & Somatic Therapies Accreditation Council,
which has been recognized by the U.S. Department of Education as a
specialized accrediting agency.

Question number 2: How can massage therapy school hours function with
the rest of my responsibilities? Just about all massage therapy
schools are mindful that the people who are attending their curriculum
have other commitments as well. Nearly all students have to hold down
jobs while attending therapeutic massage school, while others have
children at home. If you are one of the many people with obligations
outside of the classroom, don't dispair. Most schools offer a variety
of schedules to choose from.

Question number 3: How expensive is it going to be? School tuition can
vary anywhere from $6.00 to $17.00 per hour of training! The average
generally falls around $9.00 or $10.00 per credit hour. Some schools
include the cost of what you need. Add up what is included verses what
you are called upon to buy before you invest.

Question number 4: About how long will it take from beginning to end?
Schools have a full variety when it comes how much investment is
required to finish. Therapeutic massage schools can range anywhere
from 6 - 15 months, or longer. Keeping this information in mind, you
must ask yourself two important questions in regards to how long you
put forth in your education. Remember, if you are sped through a
program you have a better chance of missing out on something (though
occasionally you may come across a school which can provide an
adequate education in 6 months). On the other side of the coin, you
have got to also consider how much money you might lose if you are
learning rather than working.

Question number 5: How far away is the massage therapy school? If you
have narrowed it down to a couple of schools, choose the closer one!
With the cost of gas rising, congestion getting worse all the time,
road rage, and wear-and-tear on your vehicle, location should be a
priority. Picture yourself making the same drive 5 days a week before
you choose that nice little school across town.

Again let me compliment you on your career choice. Massage school can
be one of the brightest life-changing choices you will ever make. I
hope that these tips will turn out helpful for you as you run your
adventure into one of the greatest professions in the world.

http://cncarrental.cn/html/Finances/20060930/34152.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: i am earning $150 per day without work. read me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/32ce3c06ce3392e2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:06 pm
From: "narraswarna8@gmail.com"

www.prettythrisha.blogspot.com

read this site to get free dollars ,

www.dollarsforaffiliates.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: good new!nike shoes =28USD,Nokia N95=260USD.www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/410ef15198a24304?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:31 pm
From: fashion-sky.001@hotmail.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
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15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
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Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
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AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile(apple iphones,apple
iphones,apple iphones,apple iphones) 3).Nokia Mobile(Nokia N95,Nokia
N95 Nokia N95 Nokia N95 Nokia N93,Nokia N70,Nokia N92,Nokia 8800)
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
31

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other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
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orders.
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Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:32 pm
From: fashion-sky.001@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:32 pm
From: fashion-sky.001@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 10:33 pm
From: fashion-sky.001@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

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25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Best cheap LED flashlight from Walmart? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/289e1ab2c0f56d4c?hl=en
* Internet TV vs regular TV? - 7 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f04f08d896e09fd2?hl=en
* Plastic grocery bag debate question - 11 messages, 9 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76c040c2f7b9f6a6?hl=en
* Why do people stay in overpriced real estate markets? - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56d80a4d61e1222e?hl=en
* New Nike Air Max Shoes, Nike AF1 Shoes, Jordans Sneakers Wholesale on www.
globwholesale.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/38b7ee9f84941f9d?hl=en
* temporary health insurance for a recent graduate - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca3c7cbfde6133a7?hl=en

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:06 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>They purposely package those things so you can't test them in the
>store.

Yep!

No way you can take it out of clamshell and try it out!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:07 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote:

>My 3 watt Ray-O-Vac uses 2 AA batteries and has a 2 hour battery life.

I think this is the one Walmart had!

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:18 pm
From: Siskuwihane

On Jan 14, 5:07 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >My 3 watt Ray-O-Vac uses 2 AA batteries and has a 2 hour battery life.
>
> I think this is the one Walmart had!

Yes, that's where I got mine, well worth the money, especially
compared to those other high priced units.

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:06 pm
From: "rick++"

On Jan 14, 1:07 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> Question...rather than viewing TV shows on your
> computer via TV signal input..... how possible is it to
> get TV shows right OFF the Internet period thereby
> bypassing the normal channels for TV anyway?

There's a grey-market of recorded TV shows mainly
in colleges where the Internet is 20 times faster than
anything you can get at home. Theres' also some clever
software called BitTorrent to make this happen faster.
Instead of a single server passing the software to all
houses, BitTorrent sets up a web where each computer
takes turns sharing data chunks with other computers,
like buckets on a fire line.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:08 pm
From: me@privacy.net

Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:

>So far there isn't a true always on any channel/any time internet TV
>source (someone supposedly started something like that a few years
>back and the big networks put the brakes on it). And even though it's
>far from perfect, most big networks do show their best shows online.
>ABC, NBC and Fox have decent video feeds; CBS sucks bigtime (they used
>to be ok...something has happened and apparently it's next to
>impossible to see the video...but you sure can see the frickin'
>commercials). The trade off is the size of the picture for the
>convenience of very little interference by commercials.

On the size of the picture..... wouldn't having a BIG
LCD monitor such as 24" LCD unit help with that?

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Depends on what you want to watch. The popular fiction is fine,
other stuff like docos is much harder to find. Movies, effortless.
Some of the current affairs type stuff is much harder to find.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> So far there isn't a true always on any channel/any time internet TV
>> source (someone supposedly started something like that a few years
>> back and the big networks put the brakes on it). And even though
>> it's far from perfect, most big networks do show their best shows
>> online. ABC, NBC and Fox have decent video feeds; CBS sucks bigtime
>> (they used to be ok...something has happened and apparently it's
>> next to impossible to see the video...but you sure can see the
>> frickin' commercials). The trade off is the size of the picture for
>> the convenience of very little interference by commercials.
>
> OK
>
> On the size of the picture..... wouldn't having a BIG
> LCD monitor such as 24" LCD unit help with that?

Nope, not when they choose to have only a small low res picture available.

Its pathetic compared with HD and SD transmissions.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:40 pm
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>me@privacy.net wrote:
>> Question...rather than viewing TV shows on your
>> computer via TV signal input..... how possible is it to
>> get TV shows right OFF the Internet period thereby
>> bypassing the normal channels for TV anyway?
>
>Depends on what you want to watch. The popular fiction is fine,
>other stuff like docos is much harder to find. Movies, effortless.
>Some of the current affairs type stuff is much harder to find.
>

Unemployed..so can only afford either a new computer or
an LCD TV

And since I'm full time college student was hoping the
new PC could "be" a TV as well by getting programming
form Internet feed. No?

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 3:07 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <l7gno310m8rumsqhdbh9rvvijbd453k2ge@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> Question...rather than viewing TV shows on your
> computer via TV signal input..... how possible is it to
> get TV shows right OFF the Internet period thereby
> bypassing the normal channels for TV anyway?

Just buy a TV card for your computer. Most cards can accept a TV signal
from an antenna or a paid service (cable, satellite, FIOS). Stop by your
favorite computer store to see what's available.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> me@privacy.net wrote:
>>> Question...rather than viewing TV shows on your
>>> computer via TV signal input..... how possible is it to
>>> get TV shows right OFF the Internet period thereby
>>> bypassing the normal channels for TV anyway?
>>
>> Depends on what you want to watch. The popular fiction is fine,
>> other stuff like docos is much harder to find. Movies, effortless.
>> Some of the current affairs type stuff is much harder to find.
>>
>
> Unemployed..so can only afford either a new computer or
> an LCD TV
>
> And since I'm full time college student was hoping the
> new PC could "be" a TV as well by getting programming
> form Internet feed. No?

The result is nothing like TV. You may not care tho if you dont watch much TV.

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:20 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:00:00 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:

>Greetings group..
>
>I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].

And the proposed alternative is...?

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
> Greetings group..
>
> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>
> While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
> use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry
> home a purchase..then I don't ask for one.

> So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy plastic garbage bags all the time anyways

Mostly, because the supermarket bags arent big enough.

> [which brings up a lot of other issues]?

Nope, those end up in landfill and not in the environment.

> Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
> [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]

Not a lot, just that one issue.

> I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel I use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come
> up with an inexpensive, biodegradable bag!

Already been done. They want to ban them anyway.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 2:37 pm
From: sarge137

On Jan 14, 3:00 pm, pc <p...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> Greetings group..
>
> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>
> While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
> use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry home
> a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
>
> So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
> plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
> other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
> [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
>
> I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel I
> use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
> biodegradable bag!

Banning these bags is a classic example of useless "feel good"
legislation, that just creates inconvenience and bigger problems down
the line.

The city council where I live had a public hearing last year on this
very subject. As one of the speakers pointed out, banning the bags
won't result in less plastic in the land fills, it will only cause
people to buy plastic bags for the same purposes they presently reuse
these bags for. Fortunately the measure failed unanimously.

Like you, when I don't need a bag I tell the clerk to keep it. I
reuse about 80% of the plastic bags that come into my house.
Sometimes more than once. Paper bags, and reusable cloth or mesh bags
aren't a good substitute for most of those uses. I like the idea of
biodegradable plastic bags, but not until they are as durable as the
real thing. My grocery store experimented with them a while ago and
they didn't last more than a week or two. Half full bags would rip
when you picked them up.

Regards,
Sarge

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 3:00 pm
From: George

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:00:00 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Greetings group..
>>
>> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>
> And the proposed alternative is...?

No government requirement here but stores here offer inexpensive logoed
reusable canvas bags with carrying handles as an alternative.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 3:32 pm
From: clams_casino

pc wrote:

> Greetings group..
>
> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>
> While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
> use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry
> home a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
>
> So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
> plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
> other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
> [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
>
> I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel
> I use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
> biodegradable bag!
>
>
>
It all comes down to where you want your pollution. Cities want to
keep it out of their back yard & back at the paper mill, so they like
paper. Plastic bags can be made with minimal pollution, but end up in
the land fills.

Key is to reuse often and/or use neither - use a cloth bag - over and
over and over.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 3:54 pm
From: pc

George wrote:
> hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:00:00 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings group..
>>>
>>> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>>> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>>
>> And the proposed alternative is...?
>
> No government requirement here but stores here offer inexpensive logoed
> reusable canvas bags with carrying handles as an alternative.

So..you buy the canvas bags to lug groceries home and buy garbage bags
for all your house pails?

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 3:59 pm
From: larry

George wrote:
> hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:00:00 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings group..
>>>
>>> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>>> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>>
>>
>> And the proposed alternative is...?
>
>
> No government requirement here but stores here offer inexpensive logoed
> reusable canvas bags with carrying handles as an alternative.

Dallas Krogers now sell $1 each reusable 100% non-woven
polypropylene bags to replace the plastic/paper bags. A bag
will fit 6 standing 2 liter bottles and is 1 inch taller.
They also have a $3 insulated bag. Kroger credits 5 cents
each time you use the bag.

I shopped for inexpensive ~canvas~ totes like this for 20
years. But $9 in quantity just never cut it. Our 3 bags
easily carry what used to fill 10 plastic bags (15, since
1/2 of those were double bagged). And they are getting a
lot more use than just at Krogers, they are great bags. We
keep them in the car, ready for use.

Wish someone would have done this when the great
paper/plastic debate started! We would have saved many
trees, both wood and plastic ;-) Europeans used store totes
for many many years.

The bag maker site is http://www.earthwisebags.com

-- larry / dallas

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:10 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:32:35 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>Key is to reuse often and/or use neither - use a cloth bag - over and
>over and over.

...and never wash it, since the manufacture of the detergent, the
heating of the water, the power for the washer and dryer, and the gas
or electricity for the dryer totally obliviate and positive
environmental impact from not using plastic. (not to mention the waste
of increasingly scarce water in some cities)

Environmentalism is largely a shell game, and often played for
nefarious reasons. A manufacturer of cloth bags, or an environmental
group that stands to gain in selling hugely overpriced eco-friendly
bags is more than likely at the root of the money trail.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:43 pm
From: val189

On Jan 14, 7:10 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:

>
> ...and never wash it, since the manufacture of the detergent, the
> heating of the water, the power for the washer and dryer, and the gas
> or electricity for the dryer totally obliviate and

Aw c'mon - having an extra bag it the washer and hanging it out on the
fencepost to dry adds no expense. But I get your point.... although,
what's obliviate? :))

More supermarkets should offer easy access recycling bins for paper
and plastic bags, and for those @$#%$ foam trays too. Many people
will recycle if it's made convenient.

My local health food store takes plastic bags gladly. They're not
fools - they never buy bags and like to think they're helping the
trash problem.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:48 pm
From: "Lou"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:fiSij.9013$OC1.3569@newsfe20.lga...
> pc wrote:
>
> > Greetings group..
> >
> > I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
> > banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
> >
> > While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
> > use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry
> > home a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
> >
> > So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
> > plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
> > other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
> > [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
> >
> > I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel
> > I use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
> > biodegradable bag!
> >
> >
> >
> It all comes down to where you want your pollution. Cities want to
> keep it out of their back yard & back at the paper mill, so they like
> paper. Plastic bags can be made with minimal pollution, but end up in
> the land fills.
>
> Key is to reuse often and/or use neither - use a cloth bag - over and
> over and over.

If it's OK to reuse a cloth bag, why isn't it OK to reuse a plastic bag?

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:55 pm
From: pc

larry wrote:
> George wrote:
>> hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:00:00 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings group..
>>>>
>>>> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>>>> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>>>
>>>
>>> And the proposed alternative is...?
>>
>>
>> No government requirement here but stores here offer inexpensive
>> logoed reusable canvas bags with carrying handles as an alternative.
>
> Dallas Krogers now sell $1 each reusable 100% non-woven polypropylene
> bags to replace the plastic/paper bags. A bag will fit 6 standing 2
> liter bottles and is 1 inch taller. They also have a $3 insulated bag.
> Kroger credits 5 cents each time you use the bag.
>
> I shopped for inexpensive ~canvas~ totes like this for 20 years. But $9
> in quantity just never cut it. Our 3 bags easily carry what used to
> fill 10 plastic bags (15, since 1/2 of those were double bagged). And
> they are getting a lot more use than just at Krogers, they are great
> bags. We keep them in the car, ready for use.
>
> Wish someone would have done this when the great paper/plastic debate
> started! We would have saved many trees, both wood and plastic ;-)
> Europeans used store totes for many many years.
>
> The bag maker site is http://www.earthwisebags.com
>
> -- larry / dallas

But..how do you deal with your household garbage? Do you just throw
everything into the household cans and then into a larger garbage bin?
And then either take the bin to the dump, or put it out for pickup?

Then do you have to scrub out the various household cans?

If I felt confident enough in my garbage collectors, I'd gladly just put
everything in without a bag. But, they have a tendency to strew things
about. If I had everything loose in the bin I think it would not be good.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 3:40 pm
From: BeaForoni@msn.com

On Jan 14, 8:03 am, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I don't normally watch the home shows on tv anymore, but happened to
> watch a couple of them last night. One compared homes in Maui HI,
> Dallas TX, and San Fransisco CA.
>
> I know that circumstances dictate a lot of where people live, and some
> folks just can't live without a fix of seashore, mountains, big city
> life, etc., but surely not everyone is this way?
>
> A grad student and his wife were buying a $500K small condo near San
> Fransisco. How the f^&* are they going to pay the almost $2K mortgage
> payments and still have money for food, taxes, clothing, and
> everything else?
>
> $250K in Maui doesn't even get a person into the market. A million
> dollar home is a "starter" home.
>
> The only place that seemed anywhere near reasonable was Dallas, where
> a three million dollar home was a palace, and even the low end homes
> seemed nice.
>
> After watching this program and thinking about the mortgage "crisis,"
> I've come to a conclusion that it isn't a crisis at all, but a case
> where real estate costs in some areas are grossly out of proportion to
> incomes, and people have continued to buy-in to these markets.
>
> If a relative or friend of mine wanted to buy an 800 square foot condo
> in any area for $500K to a million, I'd be telling them "Here's yer
> sign!"
>
> What kind of shortsightedness has overtaken these millions of people?
> I think of the amounts of interest being paid, the taxes, the
> insurance, the riskiness of such over-the-top investments, and I shake
> my head in disbelief. Perhaps the mantra of real estate should be
> changed from location, location, location to stupidity, stupidity,
> stupidity.
>
> It isn't that we have a housing and mortgage crisis that occurred out
> of thin air, we have had a fever of speculation that is finally
> breaking.

Why live in a desirable market? Because it is desirable.

Look at places that are so called 'over priced', and they have assests
that pull people from all over the country. Weather, culture, mass
transit, night life, employment opportunities, medical care, lack of
Texas accent, open mindness, educational opportunities, the list is
endless as to why one part of the country is more desirable than
others. In the eighties, Sothern California had a real estate bubble
that burst. Homes lost twenty percent of value. People abandoned their
properties rather then pay on an upside down mortgage. A few years
later the prices again rose and those who stayed saw their equity
increase.

Folks who live lives full of experiences and opportunities live full
lives. People who live life always looking for the cheapest way tend
to feel life is cheap and never really enjoy the richness of human
existense.

To each their own.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:04 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:40:41 -0800 (PST), BeaForoni@msn.com wrote:

> Folks who live lives full of experiences and opportunities live full
>lives. People who live life always looking for the cheapest way tend
>to feel life is cheap and never really enjoy the richness of human
>existense.

I understand your point, but it isn't as cut-n-dried as that. I just
escaped the South Florida real estate bust after having lived there
for twenty years. I had the rich and full experience of the area, and
watched it change for the worse, even as the real estate bubble was
driving prices up. I've also lived in a number of other cities and
towns, including NYC and Atlanta. Aside from the Broadway plays,
concerts, and larger selection of dining choices, the big cities
didn't seem to offer much in exchange for the increased costs. Riding
the subway? Dealing with crowded elevators? Rush hour traffic?
These may be vibrant signs of life, but since I'm not an extrovert, I
don't crave them.

One aspect of my confusion is that I need a certain amount of space to
feel comfortable, and a certain amount of stability to feel
financially secure. I don't understand living in an 800 sf condo for
$500K plus taxes and insurance, if there is the option of living for
less than half that cost in a far larger paid-for home with decent
ammenities, where income doesn't go into a black hole.

I'm aware of the equity argument, and agree that sometimes it works,
but in many areas that equity is a false gain, once you deduct the
outrageous property taxes and insurance that have been paid over the
same period.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 14 2008 4:44 pm
From: areyouguystwins@earthlink.net

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:17:53 -0500, Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net>
wrote:

>It is very easy to spout off the universal coverage is the answer, yet I
>don't see many suggestions or ideas on how to make it work.

Look to every other industrialized country in this world. There's your
suggestions and ideas on how to make it work. Insurance doesn't work -
it's a scam. That's a fact.

-N

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