Frugal Living: Sep 18, 2008

Thursday, September 18, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin splurgin' on $2,500 silk jackets and other high fashion
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/968a95c4d776c842?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 2:19 pm
From: ayatollah obama

On Sep 18, 7:54 am, clouddreamer <Climat...@nge.is.real> wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
> > Ed Stasiak wrote:
> >>> Val N. Teenow
>
> >>> Insiders tell Page Six Palin has a secretive circle of stylists who
> >>> dress
> >>> her for events. For her big speech in St. Paul, where she accepted the
> >>> GOP's vice-presidential nod, this fashion-conscious team encouraged the
> >>> Alaska governor to splurge on a $2,500 jacket from Saks Fifth Avenue
> >>> designed by Valentino Garavani.
>
> >> Unlike Mahatma Obama, who no doubt weaves his own cloth....
>
> > Ed, that sounds like sarcasm. Obama recently managed to pay off his
> > student loans--why are you afraid of him for being normal? Honestly,
> > you sound like you're scared shitless.
>
> Yup. Obama didn't have a rich daddy to pay for everything.
>
> ..
>
> --
> We must change the way we live
> Or the climate will do it for us.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

you are apparently in need of some remedial education as well.... who
paid for the private school that obamaramadingdong went to in
Hawaii???? Punaho currently costs $20K+ a year to go there

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 2:24 pm
From: ayatollah obama

On Sep 18, 11:03 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com>
wrote:
> charliekilo wrote:
> >"clams_casino" <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
> >news:%kqAk.14740$Dj1.10810@newsfe01.iad...
>
> >>ayatollah obama wrote:
>
> >>>compared to what piglosi has run up in deficit for this
> >>>year.
>
> >>Bush and Cheney died? I missed that. When did she become president?
>
> >Congress *spends* the money -- back to civics class for you!
>
> Your point? It'll take more than 18 months (and a new president) to
> reverse the trend set by the Bush policies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

??? wtf are you talking about??? spending money??? that could've
occured on the first DemonCrap budget had piglosi wanted to??? other
than that, Do you really think that Klinton kept any of Bush/Reagan,
or that W kept any of klintons policies other than the ones we were
bound to by treaty?

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 2:29 pm
From: alohacyberian

On Sep 18, 10:09 pm, jdoe <j...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:05:04 -0230, clouddreamer
>
> <Climat...@nge.is.real> wrote:
> >If Palin pretends to represent the vast vast majority of soccer moms,
> >she's not doing well to be wearing something that could feed a family of
> >four for months.
>
> people need to stop getting so hung up the superficial, palin isn't an
> ordinary soccer mom anymore, she's running for national office and she
> is not preening anymore than any of the other candidates, find a more
> substantial issue to harp about ..
>
> __________________________________________
> Never argue with an idiot.
> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

No she's the mother of a bastard, drug addict son, a high-school drop-
out whore and the lover of Brad Hanson.

Check out the stains on her blue suit.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 2:34 pm
From: ayatollah obama

On Sep 18, 2:44 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> ayatollah obama wrote:
> >On Sep 18, 5:47 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
> >>ayatollah obama wrote:
>
> >>>compared to what piglosi has run up in deficit for this
> >>>year.
>
> >>Bush and Cheney died? I missed that. When did she become president?
>
> >you must have FAILED American history,
>
> >Let he help fill the void between your ears... The House of
> >Representatives controls all money spent. Who controls the House?????
> >guessed the answer yet dumbass??? hint, her last name starts with
> >Piglosi, and her first name starts with CUNT.
>
> >Know that you have had a refresher course in American History, who is
> >resposible for the $400 Billion deficit????
>
> >I'll wait for the answer
>
> Guess you need a long answer.
>
> Primarily the Republican controlled congress of 2000-2006 and GW
> leadership of 2000 to date.
>
> A narrowly majority Democratically controlled congress has only been
> around for 20 months. During their first year, they are supplied a
> budget by the prior congress / president, so for the first 12 months,
> they have little no effect on the spending.
>
> The primary reason the deficit is so large is that unemployment is high
> - primarily a direct result of the Bush leadership and the excess
> borrowing (and interest on that debt) that GW required for his tax
> rebates & war in Iraq.
>
> I'm not sure if GW's Iraq war costs are included in that $400B as they
> may be "off line".
>
> Now explain how you think the $400 deficit is due to the speaker of the
> house?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Absolutely it is her fault. The President submitts a budget request.
The House can accept the parts it wants, ignore the parts it wants,
add parts that it wants, and change parts it wants to.

I give piglosi a pass on lasts years for the most part since it was
primarily a Republican budget, but even then they added to the deficit
with their own spending bills... that one wound up being a $161
Billion deficit.

This budget deficit, to this point, is $400 Billion with another month
to go, and it is COMPLETELY Piglosi's. Now you can try to pass it off
on Bush since he signed the legislation, and maybe the Senate becuase
they also passed it.

This year the Senate (Republicans) filibustered an additional $400
Billion in spending. And next years budget deficit is expected to be
$800 Billion.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 3:58 pm
From: Dave U. Random

In article <3b190149-62cb-4b0e-be1f-
69fbde2e70cf@b30g2000prf.googlegroups.com>
alohacyberian <alohacyberian@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 18, 10:09 pm, jdoe <j...@aol.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:05:04 -0230, clouddreamer
> >
> > <Climat...@nge.is.real> wrote:
> > >If Palin pretends to represent the vast vast majority of soccer moms,
> > >she's not doing well to be wearing something that could feed a family of
> > >four for months.
> >
> > people need to stop getting so hung up the superficial, palin isn't an
> > ordinary soccer mom anymore, she's running for national office and she
> > is not preening anymore than any of the other candidates, find a more
> > substantial issue to harp about ..
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > Never argue with an idiot.
> > They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
>
> No she's the mother of a bastard, drug addict son, a high-school drop-
> out whore and the lover of Brad Hanson.
>
> Check out the stains on her blue suit.

She has a lot in common with your mom, doesn't she?

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 5:27 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <isadnTwESe5TH0_VnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Dano" <janeanddano@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanatos wrote:

> > > > > Her money is derived from tax dollars.

> > > > What? Are you saying that people who work for any
> > > > level of government anywhere don't have the same
> > > > right to spend their salaries however they wish as
> > > > people who work in the private sector do?

> > > Not at all.

> > Then why would you suggest that the paychecks government
> > workers receive are "tax dollars"?

> > They aren't. The salaries are paid *with* tax dollars
> > but the moment the check is issued, the money stops being
> > tax dollars and becomes the sole property of the person
> > who earned it, just as it does with any other job.

> Since you choose to snip all relevant portions of my
> response, you demonstrate that you are unworthy of any
> further consideration. PLONK.

And another coward runs away...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Repost: The work history of Rod Speed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2a8a65dd078c7ea8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 3:38 pm
From: Al Bundy

William Souden wrote:
> Looks as if it is time to repost the pitiful work history of Rod
> Speed.
>

Or you could choke on your own re-regurgitation you one trick pony.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 4:48 pm
From: George Grapman

Al Bundy wrote:
>
> William Souden wrote:
>> Looks as if it is time to repost the pitiful work history of Rod
>> Speed.
>>
>
> Or you could choke on your own re-regurgitation you one trick pony.

I killfiled both Rod and Souden some time ago. My guess is that all I
have missed is Rod refusing to ever admit he is wrong and Souden
repeatedly making note of that.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 7:00 pm
From: Jeff

George Grapman wrote:
> Al Bundy wrote:
>>
>> William Souden wrote:
>>> Looks as if it is time to repost the pitiful work history of Rod
>>> Speed.
>>>
>>
>> Or you could choke on your own re-regurgitation you one trick pony.
>
>
> I killfiled both Rod and Souden some time ago. My guess is that all I
> have missed is Rod refusing to ever admit he is wrong and Souden
> repeatedly making note of that.

Close enough...

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AUDIO: "There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever the nature of the crash
is such that it cannot be repaired. It is like dropping a mirror."
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e93d816ff7c3e927?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 3:42 pm
From: Al Bundy

>
> Daryl Bradford Smith's French Connection

I broke a mirror once and nothing bad happened. My customer didn't
seem to care and I made up for it with other work. Everybody was
happy. When you run out of cheese, find new cheese.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Someone Has Made a Fortune. I Hope They are Held to Account"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07d0d7dbe17cc61c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 5:12 pm
From: MANFRED the heat seeking OBOE

St Georges Day April 23rd
> On 18 September 2008, a Halifax and Royal Bank of Scotland employee,
> upon hearing that the bank was to be taken over by Lloyds TSB, said
> this to a Times reporter:
>
> Quote:
> Someone out there has made a fortune from all this. When the dust
> settles, I JUST HOPE THEY'RE GOING TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR WHAT
> THEY'VE DONE TO US.
> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_a
> nd_finance/article4776526.ece

Why SHOULDN'T the Guilty be rewarded?
Isn't it WORTH in order to achieve a World Safe for Socialism?
Shouldn't such things be taken from you in the name of the Common Good?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/2008-clinton-global-initiative-
recognizes/story.aspx?guid=%7BA66F156D-24E1-47A2-9D75-856FC39556CB%
7D&dist=hppr
2008 Clinton Global Catastrophe Recognizes
Social Entrepreneurs as Implementers of Change

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:47 pm
From: "Boedicia@isp.com"

On Sep 18, 7:46 am, St Georges Day April 23rd
<bbbbbdfgdfgdgd...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 18 September 2008, a Halifax and Royal Bank of Scotland employee,
> upon hearing that the bank was to be taken over by Lloyds TSB, said
> this to a Times reporter:
>
> Quote:
> Someone out there has made a fortune from all this. When the dust
> settles, I JUST HOPE THEY'RE GOING TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR WHAT
> THEY'VE DONE TO US.http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banki...
>
> THEY will not be held to account.
>
> THEY now have their men in place, owning and governing a banking house
> where "well over half the households in Britain would have a
> relationship".
>
> The international financiers, so beloved of Blair and Brown,
> engineeered this situation. HBOS was, very much, a going concern. It
> wasn't badly managed or led. The same kind of creatures that created
> Sub Prime and the Credit Crunch decided they were going to force HBOS
> to the wall and they did.
> Another HBOS employee said:
>
> Quote:
> It used to be the case that when you went to work for the Halifax you
> had a job for life. Those days are gone now.
> Those days are gone because of Margaret Thatcher's love of Fat Cat and
> her lack of concern for social harmony and the British way. ("There's
> no such thing as society"!)
>
> They are gone because Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the New Labour
> project pointedly refused to punish the politicans who had created a
> world in which such uncaring money-grubbers could wreak havoc and the
> money-grubbers themselves. In fact, not only did they not punish them,
> they, too, treated them with such favour that, 11 years into the Time
> of Tony, an insanely anti-societal banking fraternity can create Sub
> Prime, the Credit Crunch and a global meltdown, profit wildly from the
> misery of everyone else and expect to suffer no penalty at all for
> their brute misdeeds.
>
> Elsewhere at The Times, this was said:
>
> Quote:
> IT IS FEARED THAT UP TO 40,000 STAFF COULD BE AXED. Eric Daniels,
> Lloyds TSB's chief executive, admitted there would be job losses… Mr
> Daniels, who will become chief executive of the combined group,
> signalled a wave of cost-cutting and branch closures at both banks
> after stating the deal would save at least £1 billion in annual costs
> by 2011.
>
> Sir Victor Blank, the Lloyds TSB chairman WHOSE FRIENDSHIP WITH PRIME
> MINISTER GORDON BROWN HELPED ENGINEER THE MERGER, BECOMES CHAIRMAN OF
> THE ENLARGED BANK.
> Blank was the Director of The Royal Bank of Scotland, which merged
> with The Halifax to form HBOS, from 1985 to 1993.
>
> The Times continues:
>
> Quote:
> John Hutton, Secretary of State for Business, confirmed that the
> Government would be intervening to approve the takeover in the
> national interest. IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES, A COMBINATION OF TWO OF
> BRITAIN'S BIGGEST BANKS WOULD HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT ON COMPETITION
> GROUNDS…
>
> ALISTAIR DARLING, THE CHANCELLOR, CONCEDED THIS MORNING THAT THE
> GOVERNMENT HAD PLAYED A ROLE IN THE DEAL…
>
> 'This is a landmark day for the British financial services industry.
> If you think about the company, IT REALLY PUTS US ON THE GLOBAL
> SCALE,' Mr Daniels said…
>
> The merger of HBOS and Lloyds TSB would change the face of personal
> banking in Britain, creating a gorilla among pygmies and eventually
> altering the look of the high street. Well over half the households in
> Britain would have a relationship with the new superbank, which would
> become the biggest player in the personal savings and mortgage
> sectors.
>
> Hundreds of branches look certain to be closed, especially on the many
> high streets where the two organisations have competing branches. One
> estimate was that AS MANY AS 1,000 OF THE COMBINED BRANCH NETWORK OF
> 3,000 COULD EVENTUALLY BE SHUT...
>
> HBOS employs 72,000 people while Lloyds has 70,000, in both cases
> almost entirely in Britain. In mergers of such similarly positioned
> organisations, as many as ONE THIRD OF THE COMBINED WORKFORCE COULD
> LOSE THEIR JOBS...
>
> One banker familiar with mergers in the sector said that the potential
> for job cuts was considerable...
>
> 'There's massive overlap between Lloyds and HBOS,' he said. 'It's
> going to be unbelievably messy'.http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banki...
>
> The top guns at Lloyds TSB are the aforementioned Sir Victor Blank,
> "whose friendship with Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, helped engineer
> the merger" and Eric Daniels.
>
> Daniels is an American of German/Chinese heritage.
>
> Blank's grandparents were Ukrainian Jews.

So what else is new.
>
> This is the unacceptible face of Globalisation and The New World
> Order, folks.
>
> Look at that face. Is this really what you want? Do you want your
> lives run by an unanswerable, global super-elite who couldn't give a
> damn for you or yours?
>
> Well then, ask yourselves these two questions:
>
> What's the opposite of Globalism? What does the Global super-elite
> most fear?
>
> Answer: Nationalism.
>
> Which is why the globalist media has demonised the British Nationalist
> for almost 80 years now.
>
> Mirror Group Newspapers, which has around 160 local and national
> newspapers in its portfolio, includes:
>
> The Daily Mirror; The Sunday Mirror; The Sunday Mail; The People; The
> Daily Record; (Scotland's biggest selling daily) The Birmingham Post;
> The Birmingham Mail; The Sunday Mercury; The Liverpool Daily Post: the
> Liverpool Echo; The Racing Post; The South London Press and The
> Western Mail. (Wales' biggest selling daily)
>
> The Mirror Group used to own a 43% share of The Independent as well.
>
> Sir Victor Blank, who is now the Chairman of a banking house where
> "well over half the households in Britain would have a relationship",
> was until 2006, the Chairman of Trinity Mirror plc., the UK's biggest
> newspaper group, which owned Mirror Group Newspapers.

He's a jew, like all the other jews who control most of the world's
media and decide what you
will see and read. How many T.V. stations do they own?
>
> So, if you ever want to know why those who care most about the British
> people have never been given a fair crack of the whip by the the
> press, just ask Gordon Brown's friend, the Chairman of the biggest
> bank in the UK, Victor Blank.

As I said, he's a jew. At one time prior to WW2 the jew owned the
banks of Germany
and Austria. Now they own most of them in the U.S.
>
> In 1999, he was ennobled by Tony Blair.

One jew rubs another's back while they both get rich together.

And people still wonder why the German and Austrian peopple voted for
Hitler.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Video - Banking: The Swindle - "That's why I quit paying my credit
cards. Fuck em if they can't take a joke"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8aa4bfee504165cf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 5:44 pm
From: nospam@noway.net (Ralph)

St Georges Day April 23rd <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Swindling the Goyim
>
> How the bankers steal with simple tricks. If this is true, then what
> are they doing with credit cards and home mortgages?
>
> http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=a2kfUNo4_r8

This is way oversimplfied. The central banks of Europe and the US create
money out of nothing.

Money, Banking & The Federal Reserve (42 minutes)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553

G Edward Griffin - Creature From Jekyll Island A Second Look at the
Federal Reserve (42 minutes)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6507136891691870450

Monopoly Men (Federal Reserve Fraud) (47 minutes)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7065177340464808778

ZEITGEIST, The Movie - Official Release - Part 3 of 3 (47 minutes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__YFnUfYXZk
(I don't recommend Zeitgeist parts 1 and 2 which are basically a fuzzy
logic anti-religion rant and 9-11 conspiracy theories, but he's right on
in his segment on the Fed)

FIAT EMPIRE - Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. Constitution (59
minutes)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version (1 hour 51
minutes)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

The Money Masters - How International Bankers Gained Control of America
(3 hours 35 minutes)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In fact, it really does look as if the foundations of US capitalism
have shattered. The World As We Know It Is Going Down
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/88a58a209e9d86e2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 6:26 pm
From: St Georges Day April 23rd

'The World As We Know It Is Going Down'
By Marc Pitzke in New York
http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,578944,00.html

Panic is the word of the hour on Wall Street. Now even Morgan Stanley
is fighting for survival. The commercial bank Wachovia and China's
Bank Citic are being discussed as possible rescuers. The crisis has
led President Bush to cancel a trip.

The original plan actually called for humor. On Wednesday evening,
actress Christy Carlson Romano was supposed to ring the closing bell
on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) to mark her debut
in the Broadway musical "Avenue Q." She plays two roles on stage -- a
romantic kindergarten assistant, and a slutty nightclub singer.

After that day on the floor, the stock traders could have used a bit
of comic relief. But it was not to be. Instead of Christy Carlson
Romano, a NYSE employee in a joyless gray suit stood on the balcony
and silently pressed a button. The bell rang and he disappeared. No
waving, no clapping, none of the usual jubilation.

By the end of Wednesday, no one here was in the mood for laughter. The
bad news on Wall Street was coming thick and fast. All the US indexes
were crashing again after Tuesday's brief and deceptive breather. In
its wild, rollercoaster ride, the Dow Jones lost about 450 points,
which was almost as much as it lost on Monday, the most catastrophic
day on US markets since 2001.

Investors were turning their back to the market in droves and fleeing
to safer pastures. The price of gold broke its record for the highest
increase in a one-day period.

Panic Is the Word of the Hour

Traders abandoned the NYSE temple visually defeated and immune to the
TV crews waiting. The disastrous closing prices were flickering on the
ticker above the NYSE entrance: American Express -8.4 percent;
Citigroup -10.9 percent; JPMorgan Chase -12.2 percent. American icons,
abused like stray dogs. Even Apple took a hit.

"I don't know what else to say," stammered one broker, who was
consoling himself with white wine and beer along with some colleagues
at an outdoor bar called Beckett's. Ties and jackets were off, but
despite the evening breeze, you could still make out the thin film of
sweat on his forehead. His words captured the speechlessness of an
industry.

Things got worse after the markets closed. Washington Mutual,
America's fourth-largest bank, announced that it had started the
process of putting itself up for sale. The Wall Street Journal
reported that both Wells Fargo and the banking giant Citigroup were
interested in taking over the battered American savings bank.

And then came the announcement that would dominate all of Thursday's
market activities: Morgan Stanley -- the venerable Wall Street
institution and one of the last two US investment banks left standing
-- had lost massive amounts and was fighting for survival. Media
reports were saying that it was even in talks about a possible bail-
out or merger. Rumor had it that possible suitors might include
Wachovia or China's Bank Citic.

China?

"Folks," economist Larry Kudlow, a host on the business channel CNBC
begged his viewers that evening, "don't give up on this great
country!"

End of an Era

In fact, it really does look as if the foundations of US capitalism
have shattered. Since 1864, American banking has been split into
commercial banks and investment banks. But now that's changing. Bear
Stearns, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch -- overnight, some of the
biggest names on Wall Street have disappeared into thin air. Goldman
Sachs and Morgan Stanley are the only giants left standing. Despite
tolerable quarterly results, even they have been hurt by mysterious
slumps in prices and -- at least in Morgan Stanley's case -- have
prepared themselves for the end.

"Nothing will be like it was before," said James Allroy, a broker who
was brooding over his chai latte at a Starbucks on Wall Street. "The
world as we know it is going down."

Many are drawing comparisons with the Great Depression, the national
trauma that has been the benchmark for everything since. "I think it
has the chance to be the worst period of time since 1929," financing
legend Donald Trump told CNN. And the Wall Street Journal seconds that
opinion, giving one story the title: "Worst Crisis Since '30s, With No
End Yet in Sight."

But what's really happening? Experts have so far been unable to agree
on any conclusions. Is this the beginning of the end? Or is it just a
painful, but normal cycle correcting the excesses of recent years?
Does responsibility lie with the ratings agencies, which have been
overvaluing financial institutions for a long time? Or did dubious
short sellers manipulate stock prices -- after all, they were
suspected of having caused the last stock market crisis in July.

The only thing that is certain is that the era of the unbridled free-
market economy in the US has passed -- at least for now. The near
nationalization of AIG, America's largest insurance company, with an
$85 billion cash infusion -- a bill footed by taxpayers -- was a
staggering move. The sum is three times as high as the guarantee
provided by the Federal Reserve when Bear Stearns was sold to JPMorgan
Chase in March.

The most breathtaking aspect about this week's crisis, though, is that
the life raft -- which Washington had only previously used to bail out
the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- is being handed out
by a government whose party usually fights against any form of
government intervention. The policy is anchored in its party platform.

"I fear the government has passed the point of no return," financial
historian Ron Chernow told the New York Times. "We have the irony of a
free-market administration doing things that the most liberal
Democratic administration would never have been doing in its wildest
dreams."

Bush Cancels Trip

The situation appears to be so serious that George W. Bush cancelled
two domestic trips he had planned for Thursday on short notice.
Instead, the president will remain in Washington to discuss the
"serious challenges confronting US financial markets." He said the
president remained focused on "taking action to stabilize and
strengthen the markets." Bush had originally planned to travel to
events in Florida and Alabama.

So far, the US presidential candidates have made few helpful remarks
about the crisis other than the usual slogans. Both are vaguely
calling for "regulation" and "reform" -- bland catchphrases almost
universally welcomed with applause.

Republican Party presidential candidate John McCain had the most to
say. On Monday, he said "the foundation of our economy" was "strong,"
adding that he opposed a government-led bailout of US insurer AIG. But
now he's promising further government steps "to prevent the kind of
wild speculation that can put our markets at risk." McCain's
explanation for the current crisis: "unbridled corruption and greed."

But Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama didn't move past
superficialities, either. "We're Americans. We've met tough challenges
before and we can again."

What else are they supposed to say? After all, US presidents have very
little influence on stockmarkets. And Wall Street is expecting the
status quo for the next president. On Wednesday an almost palpable mix
of tension and melancholy filled the air above New York's Financial
District. The beloved trader bar Bull Run was half empty, and many
tables were free at fine-dining establishments like Cipriani, Mangia
and Bobby Van's, which are normally booked days in advance.

At the side entrance to Goldman Sachs on Pearl Street, limo chauffeurs
sat waiting for their customers, still above in their office towers
cowering over the accounts. "If they go under," said Rashid Amal, who
works as a chauffeur for a firm called Excelsior, "then I will soon be
out of a job, too."

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 7:07 pm
From: "Morton Davis"

"St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote in
message
news:e2e9183e-0095-46af-bd8f-a191288c1cbd@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

Over 97%of mortgages are being paid. Over 95% of banks are sound. Over 94%
of American workers are employed. This is a bump. We'll get over it. The
markets are rebounding, oil is down. Were it not for Ike my area would be
knocking on $3 a gallon for regular gas.

Sell your gloom and doom elsewhere.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 7:43 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:07:41 +0000, Morton Davis wrote:

>
> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote in
> message
> news:e2e9183e-0095-46af-bd8f-a191288c1cbd@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Over 97%of mortgages are being paid. Over 95% of banks are sound. Over 94%
> of American workers are employed. This is a bump. We'll get over it. The
> markets are rebounding, oil is down. Were it not for Ike my area would be
> knocking on $3 a gallon for regular gas.
>
> Sell your gloom and doom elsewhere.

Sell your denials elsewhere.

Trends are all in the wrong direction and the economic disasters brought
upon us by the Bush Administration are rapidly spiraling downward with no
end in sight.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

................................................................
Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
>>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
-=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:06 pm
From: Bill Smith

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:43:48 -0700, Curly Surmudgeon
<curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:07:41 +0000, Morton Davis wrote:
>
>>
>> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:e2e9183e-0095-46af-bd8f-a191288c1cbd@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Over 97%of mortgages are being paid. Over 95% of banks are sound. Over 94%
>> of American workers are employed. This is a bump. We'll get over it. The
>> markets are rebounding, oil is down. Were it not for Ike my area would be
>> knocking on $3 a gallon for regular gas.
>>
>> Sell your gloom and doom elsewhere.
>
>Sell your denials elsewhere.
>
>Trends are all in the wrong direction and the economic disasters brought
>upon us by the Bush Administration are rapidly spiraling downward with no
>end in sight.

You'd advise a panic then? That'll be useful.

Bill Smith

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:58 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 20:06:39 -0700, Bill Smith wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 19:43:48 -0700, Curly Surmudgeon
> <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:07:41 +0000, Morton Davis wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote in
>>> message
>>> news:e2e9183e-0095-46af-bd8f-a191288c1cbd@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Over 97%of mortgages are being paid. Over 95% of banks are sound. Over
>>> 94% of American workers are employed. This is a bump. We'll get over
>>> it. The markets are rebounding, oil is down. Were it not for Ike my
>>> area would be knocking on $3 a gallon for regular gas.
>>>
>>> Sell your gloom and doom elsewhere.
>>
>>Sell your denials elsewhere.
>>
>>Trends are all in the wrong direction and the economic disasters brought
>>upon us by the Bush Administration are rapidly spiraling downward with no
>>end in sight.
>
>
> You'd advise a panic then? That'll be useful.
>
> Bill Smith

Sarcasm not withstanding, where did I say such a thing, or did voices in
your head tell you that? You sound like the trolls in another newsgroup
who project their fantasies on anyone who doesn't agree with their reality
bubble.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 9:44 pm
From: Jeff

Morton Davis wrote:
> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote in
> message
> news:e2e9183e-0095-46af-bd8f-a191288c1cbd@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Over 97%of mortgages are being paid. Over 95% of banks are sound. Over 94%
> of American workers are employed. This is a bump. We'll get over it. The
> markets are rebounding, oil is down. Were it not for Ike my area would be
> knocking on $3 a gallon for regular gas.
>
> Sell your gloom and doom elsewhere.

Let's see in the last week or so, the two largest Mortgage buyers,
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have essentially been nationalized to save
them. One of the worlds largest insurers, AIG, has been rescued by the
FED, Only two of the five largest investment banks remain independent
and one of them is in talks with a Chinese firm from to bail it out.
Gold jumped $70 in one day. The FED is borrowing money...

Yes, it's all very lovely.

Jeff
>
>

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:32 pm
From: "Felix D." <#1Chekist@OGPU.org>

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:mJCdnewiF-ass07VnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

> Let's see in the last week or so, the two largest Mortgage buyers,
> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have essentially been nationalized to save
> them. One of the worlds largest insurers, AIG, has been rescued by the
> FED, Only two of the five largest investment banks remain independent and
> one of them is in talks with a Chinese firm from to bail it out. Gold
> jumped $70 in one day. The FED is borrowing money...

Well, if it all goes down the tubes, we all go down with it so who's to say
what might happen? Whether you think we'll pull together and see it through
or fall apart into warring tribes depends on how you view mankind to begin
with.

> Yes, it's all very lovely.

Isn't it? History is unfolding / being made right before our eyes.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:56 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Curly Surmudgeon" <curlysurmudgeon@live.com> wrote in message
news:48d31219$0$22236$a8266bb1@news.titannews.com...
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:07:41 +0000, Morton Davis wrote:
>
>>
>> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:e2e9183e-0095-46af-bd8f-a191288c1cbd@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Over 97%of mortgages are being paid. Over 95% of banks are sound. Over
>> 94%
>> of American workers are employed. This is a bump. We'll get over it. The
>> markets are rebounding, oil is down. Were it not for Ike my area would be
>> knocking on $3 a gallon for regular gas.
>>
>> Sell your gloom and doom elsewhere.
>
> Sell your denials elsewhere.
>
> Trends are all in the wrong direction and the economic disasters brought
> upon us by the Bush Administration are rapidly spiraling downward with no
> end in sight.
Unbridled Capitalism.............
Not a President Of the United States

>
> --
> Regards, Curly
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ................................................................
> Posted via TITANnews - Uncensored Newsgroups Access
> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<<
> -=Every Newsgroup - Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal HDTV (Pocket LCD 1" BW?)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2779d19f66d2bd16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:55 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

I watch TV half an hour a month and don't care much for it. I have
three pocket 1" BW LCD TVs and I'm looking for the cheapest way to get
HDTV after February. If I had to pay more than fifty bucks I would
forego TV altogether.

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reusing Water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fd655be017f95057?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:56 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

In Japan they reuse water three times indoors
from kitchen to bath to toilet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I am losing my butt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b88d0c3914417a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:16 pm
From: chief_thracian@yahoo.com (Chief Thracian)

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:03:08 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Chief Thracian <chief_thracian@yahoo.com> wrote
>> JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote
>
>>> Fine. Tell us this "Completely trivial" scheme to put your deposits
>>> into banks that are GUARANTEED against bank failures, inflation,
>>> and devaluation. If that's too hard, try for 2 out of 3.
>
>> His answer to ME in this same thread, was to keep my money under the bed!
>
>Lying, as always.

The evidence of my vericity is right here in this thread...and nothing
you can do will change that. 8th msg. from the top, where you say
"Cash under the bed isnt, fool.".

Message-ID: <6jao6fF27vs9U1@mid.individual.net>

And if you really meant cash in a safe box, you have said that in the
first place, not under the bed. 'Cause a safe box can be kept in just
about any place...usually in a clost.

It's obvious you're brains are fried on meth, considering your choice
of handle, as well as your obnoxious behavior. Some day, you will
seriously regret your potty mouth, as ;you lay comatose in the ER.

--
Steal This Blog!
http://www.gay-bible.org/steal

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:48 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
news:09SdnTDZyry3f1LVnZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> clams_casino wrote:
>> timeOday wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Personal Rate of Return from 01/01/2008 to 09/12/2008 is -16.2%"
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeow. And this isn't some crazy hedge fund, it's a collection of index
>>> funds.
>
> It looks to me that the DJIA is just about where it was 7 1/2 years ago.
>>>
>>> It's a good thing we know wealth doesn't equal happiness around here,
>>> eh?
>>>
>>> All I can say is, it's a good thing I'm too young to retire anytime
>>> soon.
>>
>>
>> Remember when the Republican rage was to replace social security and
>> pensions with stock market investments?
>
> No one is talking about that gem anymore.
>
> The main trouble with the SS trust fund is that the government has
> "borrowed" it to run other branches of government. In effect it is backed
> by treasury bonds.
There is NO Social Security Fund in the United States

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 7:46 am
From: St Georges Day April 23rd

On 18 September 2008, a Halifax and Royal Bank of Scotland employee,
upon hearing that the bank was to be taken over by Lloyds TSB, said
this to a Times reporter:

Quote:
Someone out there has made a fortune from all this. When the dust
settles, I JUST HOPE THEY'RE GOING TO BE HELD TO ACCOUNT FOR WHAT
THEY'VE DONE TO US.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article4776526.ece

THEY will not be held to account.

THEY now have their men in place, owning and governing a banking house
where "well over half the households in Britain would have a
relationship".

The international financiers, so beloved of Blair and Brown,
engineeered this situation. HBOS was, very much, a going concern. It
wasn't badly managed or led. The same kind of creatures that created
Sub Prime and the Credit Crunch decided they were going to force HBOS
to the wall and they did.
Another HBOS employee said:

Quote:
It used to be the case that when you went to work for the Halifax you
had a job for life. Those days are gone now.
Those days are gone because of Margaret Thatcher's love of Fat Cat and
her lack of concern for social harmony and the British way. ("There's
no such thing as society"!)

They are gone because Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the New Labour
project pointedly refused to punish the politicans who had created a
world in which such uncaring money-grubbers could wreak havoc and the
money-grubbers themselves. In fact, not only did they not punish them,
they, too, treated them with such favour that, 11 years into the Time
of Tony, an insanely anti-societal banking fraternity can create Sub
Prime, the Credit Crunch and a global meltdown, profit wildly from the
misery of everyone else and expect to suffer no penalty at all for
their brute misdeeds.

Elsewhere at The Times, this was said:

Quote:
IT IS FEARED THAT UP TO 40,000 STAFF COULD BE AXED. Eric Daniels,
Lloyds TSB's chief executive, admitted there would be job losses… Mr
Daniels, who will become chief executive of the combined group,
signalled a wave of cost-cutting and branch closures at both banks
after stating the deal would save at least £1 billion in annual costs
by 2011.

Sir Victor Blank, the Lloyds TSB chairman WHOSE FRIENDSHIP WITH PRIME
MINISTER GORDON BROWN HELPED ENGINEER THE MERGER, BECOMES CHAIRMAN OF
THE ENLARGED BANK.
Blank was the Director of The Royal Bank of Scotland, which merged
with The Halifax to form HBOS, from 1985 to 1993.

The Times continues:

Quote:
John Hutton, Secretary of State for Business, confirmed that the
Government would be intervening to approve the takeover in the
national interest. IN OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES, A COMBINATION OF TWO OF
BRITAIN'S BIGGEST BANKS WOULD HAVE BEEN THROWN OUT ON COMPETITION
GROUNDS…

ALISTAIR DARLING, THE CHANCELLOR, CONCEDED THIS MORNING THAT THE
GOVERNMENT HAD PLAYED A ROLE IN THE DEAL…

'This is a landmark day for the British financial services industry.
If you think about the company, IT REALLY PUTS US ON THE GLOBAL
SCALE,' Mr Daniels said…

The merger of HBOS and Lloyds TSB would change the face of personal
banking in Britain, creating a gorilla among pygmies and eventually
altering the look of the high street. Well over half the households in
Britain would have a relationship with the new superbank, which would
become the biggest player in the personal savings and mortgage
sectors.

Hundreds of branches look certain to be closed, especially on the many
high streets where the two organisations have competing branches. One
estimate was that AS MANY AS 1,000 OF THE COMBINED BRANCH NETWORK OF
3,000 COULD EVENTUALLY BE SHUT...

HBOS employs 72,000 people while Lloyds has 70,000, in both cases
almost entirely in Britain. In mergers of such similarly positioned
organisations, as many as ONE THIRD OF THE COMBINED WORKFORCE COULD
LOSE THEIR JOBS...

One banker familiar with mergers in the sector said that the potential
for job cuts was considerable...

'There's massive overlap between Lloyds and HBOS,' he said. 'It's
going to be unbelievably messy'.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/banking_and_finance/article4776455.ece

The top guns at Lloyds TSB are the aforementioned Sir Victor Blank,
"whose friendship with Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, helped engineer
the merger" and Eric Daniels.

Daniels is an American of German/Chinese heritage.

Blank's grandparents were Ukrainian Jews.

This is the unacceptible face of Globalisation and The New World
Order, folks.

Look at that face. Is this really what you want? Do you want your
lives run by an unanswerable, global super-elite who couldn't give a
damn for you or yours?

Well then, ask yourselves these two questions:

What's the opposite of Globalism? What does the Global super-elite
most fear?

Answer: Nationalism.

Which is why the globalist media has demonised the British Nationalist
for almost 80 years now.

Mirror Group Newspapers, which has around 160 local and national
newspapers in its portfolio, includes:

The Daily Mirror; The Sunday Mirror; The Sunday Mail; The People; The
Daily Record; (Scotland's biggest selling daily) The Birmingham Post;
The Birmingham Mail; The Sunday Mercury; The Liverpool Daily Post: the
Liverpool Echo; The Racing Post; The South London Press and The
Western Mail. (Wales' biggest selling daily)

The Mirror Group used to own a 43% share of The Independent as well.

Sir Victor Blank, who is now the Chairman of a banking house where
"well over half the households in Britain would have a relationship",
was until 2006, the Chairman of Trinity Mirror plc., the UK's biggest
newspaper group, which owned Mirror Group Newspapers.

So, if you ever want to know why those who care most about the British
people have never been given a fair crack of the whip by the the
press, just ask Gordon Brown's friend, the Chairman of the biggest
bank in the UK, Victor Blank.

In 1999, he was ennobled by Tony Blair.

== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:09 am
From: jdoe

On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:05:04 -0230, clouddreamer
<ClimateCh@nge.is.real> wrote:

>If Palin pretends to represent the vast vast majority of soccer moms,
>she's not doing well to be wearing something that could feed a family of
>four for months.
people need to stop getting so hung up the superficial, palin isn't an
ordinary soccer mom anymore, she's running for national office and she
is not preening anymore than any of the other candidates, find a more
substantial issue to harp about ..

__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:12 am
From: "Dano"

jdoe wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 18:08:10 -0400, clams_casino
> <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Plus they receive that $3269 x 7 = $22,883 welfare check from the
>> state of AK from the excess profits tax on oil.
>>
>> Of course, that money would normally be used for state expenditures
>> but AK gets $5 back from the federal government for each dollar
>> they send in federal income taxes, which actually gets borrowed
>> from China.
>>
>> So who is picking up the tab? Your children will, eventually.
> welfare check? I always thought that you weren't too bright and this
> confirms it. The monies returned to alaskans are SURPLUSES, and it
> isn't a bad idea, when government raises too much money from taxes it
> should return the excess to the taxpayers. you liberloons are too
> funny
> __________________________________________
When you say excess, do you mean like the over $400 million in earmarks, a
state with 600,000 residents received in two years? Guess again
genius...she gave her residents OUR fucking money! No wonder they love her.
Moron.

== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:13 am
From: clouddreamer

jdoe wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 12:05:04 -0230, clouddreamer
> <ClimateCh@nge.is.real> wrote:
>
>
>> If Palin pretends to represent the vast vast majority of soccer moms,
>> she's not doing well to be wearing something that could feed a family of
>> four for months.
> people need to stop getting so hung up the superficial, palin isn't an
> ordinary soccer mom anymore, she's running for national office and she
> is not preening anymore than any of the other candidates, find a more
> substantial issue to harp about ..
>
> __________________________________________
> Never argue with an idiot.
> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I'll take your advice. Last thing I need is to be dragged down to your
level.

<plonk>

--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.

== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:16 am
From: "Dano"

Thanatos wrote:
> In article <I--dnYpXAZYVakzVnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Dano" <janeanddano@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Rich Hutnik wrote:
>
>>> How people spend their own money is their business. How they spend
>>> tax dollars is another issue.
>>>
>>
>> Her money is derived from tax dollars.
>
> What? Are you saying that people who work for any level of government
> anywhere don't have the same right to spend their salaries however
> they wish as people who work in the private sector do?

Not at all. Just that I resent the charade that they are just regular
folks...you know...just ordinary soccer...excuse me...hockey moms. Please.
You can put a 2,500 dollar jacket on an "ordinary" mom...but then she's in
hock up to her ass.

== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:18 am
From: "Dano"

charliekilo wrote:
> "Dano" <janeanddano@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:I--dnYpXAZYVakzVnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Rich Hutnik wrote:
>>> On Sep 17, 4:06 pm, denni...@dennism3.invalid (Dennis M) wrote:
>>>> In article
>>>> <0f328d0c-c591-4713-89ab-1f9af18b2...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Rich
>>>>
>>>> Hutnik <richardhut...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> There are days that I long for John Edward's haircut not being
>>>>> made a political issue. Now, we have to pay attention to the cost
>>>>> of clothes that people are wearing, like McCain's loafers and his
>>>>> wife's wardrobe.
>>>>
>>>> You're damn right we have to pay attention to decadent personal
>>>> spending by Republican leaders, because they're being hypocritical.
>>>
>>> How people spend their own money is their business. How they spend
>>> tax dollars is another issue.
>>>
>>
>> Her money is derived from tax dollars. But that isn't the point. The
>> point is she pretends to be just a regular, small town, hockey
>> mom. I've known a lot of hockey (and soccer, and baseball, and
>> football) moms. I've yet to meet one who spends 2,500 bucks on a
>> designer jacket. Or hundreds of thousands like Cindy McCain for
>> that matter. These people are the wealthy elite...not the regular
>> folk they would like their naive followers to believe.
>
> Come to my town (Austin, TX) and I guarantee you that you'll find a
> LOT of
>> soccer/baseball/football moms that own $2000+ jackets, purses,
>> dresses,
> etc... especially in certain parts of town. It's not all that
> unusual...seriously.

I have no interest in visiting Austin. I can go to many tony suburbs and
sections of Boston and find rich folks too. That's not the point. But you
know that.

== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:40 am
From: George Orwell

In article <-JWdndySO8WQ-k_VnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@supernews.com>
clouddreamer <ClimateCh@nge.is.real> wrote:

So what?

Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
https://www.mixmaster.it

== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 8:41 am
From: clouddreamer

George Orwell wrote:
> In article <-JWdndySO8WQ-k_VnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@supernews.com>
> clouddreamer <ClimateCh@nge.is.real> wrote:
>
> So what?
>
>
> Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
> non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
> reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
> di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
> Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
> https://www.mixmaster.it
>

????

--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us.

== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 9:03 am
From: clams_casino

charliekilo wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:%kqAk.14740$Dj1.10810@newsfe01.iad...
>
>
>>ayatollah obama wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>compared to what piglosi has run up in deficit for this
>>>year.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Bush and Cheney died? I missed that. When did she become president?
>>
>>
>
>Congress *spends* the money -- back to civics class for you!
>
>
>
>
Your point? It'll take more than 18 months (and a new president) to
reverse the trend set by the Bush policies.

== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 9:12 am
From: Thanatos

In article <O5ednUY4Fdsj7U_VnZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Dano" <janeanddano@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thanatos wrote:
> > In article <I--dnYpXAZYVakzVnZ2dnUVZ_qvinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> > "Dano" <janeanddano@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Rich Hutnik wrote:
> >
> >>> How people spend their own money is their business. How they spend
> >>> tax dollars is another issue.

> >> Her money is derived from tax dollars.
> >
> > What? Are you saying that people who work for any level of government
> > anywhere don't have the same right to spend their salaries however
> > they wish as people who work in the private sector do?
>
> Not at all.

Then why would you suggest that the paychecks government workers receive
are "tax dollars"?

They aren't. The salaries are paid *with* tax dollars but the moment the
check is issued, the money stops being tax dollars and becomes the sole
property of the person who earned it, just as it does with any other job.

== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 9:33 am
From: "Dano"

Thanatos wrote:

Since you choose to snip all relevant portions of my response, you
demonstrate that you are unworthy of any further consideration. PLONK.

== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:35 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Sep 18, 10:20 am, cake_and_eat_it_...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Yeah, it seems like Sarah Palin, who professes to love her kids so
> much, could get her daughter Bristol into something other than blue
> jeans. That speaks volumes about "our soccer mom" and where her
> priorities are.

Bristol is a teenager. Is there any evidence that she doesn't want to
wear blue jeans? My mother could hardly crowbar me out of mine
and into a dress, and that was a long time ago when we had standards.

Cindy Hamilton

== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:51 am
From: "Dano"

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sep 18, 10:20 am, cake_and_eat_it_...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Yeah, it seems like Sarah Palin, who professes to love her kids so
>> much, could get her daughter Bristol into something other than blue
>> jeans. That speaks volumes about "our soccer mom" and where her
>> priorities are.
>
> Bristol is a teenager. Is there any evidence that she doesn't want to
> wear blue jeans? My mother could hardly crowbar me out of mine
> and into a dress, and that was a long time ago when we had standards.
>

Oh. So you're saying the Palins haver no standards.

But then...I mean...it's not like a special event or anything...why dress
up...just because mom buys that designer jacket. Besides...we don't
know...those jeans might have cost a grand.

== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:54 am
From: ayatollah obama

On Sep 18, 5:47 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> ayatollah obama wrote:
>
> >compared to what piglosi has run up in deficit for this
> >year.
>
> Bush and Cheney died? I missed that. When did she become president?

you must have FAILED American history,

Let he help fill the void between your ears... The House of
Representatives controls all money spent. Who controls the House?????
guessed the answer yet dumbass??? hint, her last name starts with
Piglosi, and her first name starts with CUNT.

Know that you have had a refresher course in American History, who is
resposible for the $400 Billion deficit????

I'll wait for the answer

== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 12:03 pm
From: Anonymous

In article <0c4a1f9b-6902-4a49-a319-
3e30c2bd8749@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>
Cindy Hamilton <angelicapaganelli@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sep 18, 10:20 am, cake_and_eat_it_...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Yeah, it seems like Sarah Palin, who professes to love her kids so
> > much, could get her daughter Bristol into something other than blue
> > jeans. That speaks volumes about "our soccer mom" and where her
> > priorities are.
>
> Bristol is a teenager. Is there any evidence that she doesn't want to
> wear blue jeans? My mother could hardly crowbar me out of mine
> and into a dress, and that was a long time ago when we had standards.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

You can't reason with a liberal.

== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 12:44 pm
From: clams_casino

ayatollah obama wrote:

>On Sep 18, 5:47 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>ayatollah obama wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>compared to what piglosi has run up in deficit for this
>>>year.
>>>
>>>
>>Bush and Cheney died? I missed that. When did she become president?
>>
>>
>
>you must have FAILED American history,
>
>Let he help fill the void between your ears... The House of
>Representatives controls all money spent. Who controls the House?????
>guessed the answer yet dumbass??? hint, her last name starts with
>Piglosi, and her first name starts with CUNT.
>
>Know that you have had a refresher course in American History, who is
>resposible for the $400 Billion deficit????
>
>I'll wait for the answer
>
>
Guess you need a long answer.

Primarily the Republican controlled congress of 2000-2006 and GW
leadership of 2000 to date.

A narrowly majority Democratically controlled congress has only been
around for 20 months. During their first year, they are supplied a
budget by the prior congress / president, so for the first 12 months,
they have little no effect on the spending.

The primary reason the deficit is so large is that unemployment is high
- primarily a direct result of the Bush leadership and the excess
borrowing (and interest on that debt) that GW required for his tax
rebates & war in Iraq.

I'm not sure if GW's Iraq war costs are included in that $400B as they
may be "off line".

Now explain how you think the $400 deficit is due to the speaker of the
house?

== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 2:19 pm
From: ayatollah obama

you are apparently in need of some remedial education as well.... who
paid for the private school that obamaramadingdong went to in
Hawaii???? Punaho currently costs $20K+ a year to go there

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Illegal Arrested for Rapes of Two Women, Aged 99, 81
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ab6df64357db9a6a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 10:55 am
From: "Lachlan - KotU"

<wismel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5s93d4d480j903o1opd9tpseoe5oap6eps@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:50:58 GMT, jazzerciser@hotmail.com (-) wrote:
>
>>
>>http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5615
>>
>> Illegal Arrested for Rapes of Two Women, Aged 99, 81
>>Immigration; Posted on: 2008-09-17
>> [ Printer friendly / Instant flyer ]
>>
>>DNA allegedly IDs Jose Corrales as serial rapist
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/images/teaser/corrales.jpg
>>
>>The 'Dark Side' of Illegal Immigration
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5610
>>
>>
>>A serial rapist preying on elderly women in Florida has been identified by
>>police as illegal alien Jose Corrales, 33, according to reports. Coralles
>>was
>>arrested after DNA taken at the scene of two brutal sexual assaults in
>>Hialeah, near Miami allegedly linked him to the attacks. News outlets have
>>not
>>explained how police were able to match the DNA to Coralles, or if he,
>>like
>>many illegals, had been arrested previously.
>>
>>Corrales was employed as a roofer in the Hialeah area, a trade that has
>>seen
>>its union membership smashed across the US by employer access to the cheap
>>(and shoddy) illegal labor pool. On June 22, Corrales allegedly left the
>>work
>>site and followed a frail woman, aged 99, to her front door, where he
>>overpowered her attempts to fight him off, beating her so mercilessly that
>>he
>>knocked her dentures out. He then dragged her by the neck into her bedroom
>>where, police say, he forced the terrified woman to perform a sex act on
>>him.
>>
>>On August 24, Corrales is alleged to have targeted a disabled woman, aged
>>81.
>>In a similar set of events to the June attack, Corrales forcefully entered
>>the
>>handicapped woman's home and sexually assaulted her.
>>
>>According to local reports, Corrales has admitted to the crimes and faces
>>a
>>slew of rape, assault and other felony charges.
>>
>>The Hialeh rapes have not had widespread coverage in the "mainstream"
>>media,
>>however as a result of the internet the case has joined a long list of
>>similar
>>crimes perpetrated by "undocumented workers." Illegals from Latin America
>>have
>>become especially well known for sex crimes, as well as for a fatal drunk
>>driving epidemic and gang behaviors.
>>
>>Often, these crimes have been facilitated by government policies in line
>>with
>>corporate and special interest agendas to foster illegal immigration. In
>>many
>>jurisdictions, police officers are specifically banned from reporting the
>>immigration status of suspects, while some municipalities have declared
>>themselves "sanctuary cities" sworn to protect illegal alien criminals
>>from
>>deportation.
>>
>>In a recent spectacular case that managed to break the "mainstream" media
>>silence about these problems, a "sanctuary" gang felon in San Francisco
>>gunned
>>down a father and his two sons after avoiding deportation for earlier
>>crimes
>>thanks to these kinds of policies.
>>
>>Meanwhile, state governments are burdened with the costs of imprisoning
>>illegal immigrant felons who are present mainly because Washington is
>>either
>>unwilling or unable to enforce federal immigration laws. The callousness
>>of
>>the federal government was especially made clear in the recent case of the
>>execution of Jose Medellin, a gang rapist and murderer from Mexico who
>>raped
>>and killed two girls in Texas in 1993. President George Bush actually
>>sided
>>with the government of Mexico against Texas when Mexico argued in the
>>International Court of Justice that Medellin's sentence violated
>>international
>>law.
>>
>>Illegal alien sexual crime is not limited to the United States. All across
>>the
>>Western world, Third World immigrants have participated in what is seen by
>>many as a rape epidemic against white women and girls. Many of these
>>rapists
>>claim that white girls "ask" to be raped because of their clothes and
>>behavior, and another aspect is the weakness Third Worlders see in a West
>>that
>>is unable to stem the immigration flow and even provides such illegals
>>with
>>free food, accommodation and schooling. Rape is a sad but constant
>>consequence
>>of war and invasion; many of these invaders see white women as part of
>>their
>>spoils.
>>
>>Increasingly, women's rights activists have begun to see the danger to
>>women
>>of Third World immigration, which brings people to the West whose own
>>cultures
>>have little or anything in common with accepted Western values, and which
>>often see women as chattel. One such activist, Brenda Walker, has penned
>>an
>>important essay on the issue, Why Multiculturalism Is a Fraud and a
>>Disaster
>>for Women's Rights.
>>
>>News Source: EAU correspondent
>>
>>
>>Related Stories
>>The 'Dark Side' of Illegal Immigration:
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5610
>>
>>Illegal Immigrants Take U.S. Lives Every Year
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5403
>>
>>Illegal Immigrants Are Voting in American Elections
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5342
>>
>>Italy: Troops on Streets to Combat Illegal Immigration Invasion
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5291
>>
>>Italy Declares Emergency over Illegal Immigration Invasion
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5243
>>
>>Shunning May be the Answer to Illegal Immigration
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5175
>>
>>Italy 'Boots' 38 Egyptians as Part of Illegal Immigrant Crackdown
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5087
>>
>>82,000 Illegal Aliens Enter US Each Month
>> http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5045
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>2007-2008 European Americans United.
>
> "A good illegal alien is a dead illegal alien, no exceptions".
>
> ted

Biting my tongue this much is bloody sore!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 12:45 pm
From: Wilma6116@gmail.com

On Sep 17, 5:59 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 20:50:58 GMT, jazzerci...@hotmail.com (-) wrote:
>
> >http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5615
>
> > Illegal Arrested for Rapes of Two Women, Aged 99, 81
> >Immigration; Posted on: 2008-09-17
> > [ Printer friendly / Instant flyer ]
>
> >DNA allegedly IDs Jose Corrales as serial rapist
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/images/teaser/corrales.jpg
>
> >The 'Dark Side' of Illegal Immigration
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5610
>
> >A serial rapist preying on elderly women in Florida has been identified by
> >police as illegal alien Jose Corrales, 33, according to reports. Coralles was
> >arrested after DNA taken at the scene of two brutal sexual assaults in
> >Hialeah, near Miami allegedly linked him to the attacks. News outlets have not
> >explained how police were able to match the DNA to Coralles, or if he, like
> >many illegals, had been arrested previously.
>
> >Corrales was employed as a roofer in the Hialeah area, a trade that has seen
> >its union membership smashed across the US by employer access to the cheap
> >(and shoddy) illegal labor pool. On June 22, Corrales allegedly left the work
> >site and followed a frail woman, aged 99, to her front door, where he
> >overpowered her attempts to fight him off, beating her so mercilessly that he
> >knocked her dentures out. He then dragged her by the neck into her bedroom
> >where, police say, he forced the terrified woman to perform a sex act on him.
>
> >On August 24, Corrales is alleged to have targeted a disabled woman, aged 81.
> >In a similar set of events to the June attack, Corrales forcefully entered the
> >handicapped woman's home and sexually assaulted her.
>
> >According to local reports, Corrales has admitted to the crimes and faces a
> >slew of rape, assault and other felony charges.
>
> >The Hialeh rapes have not had widespread coverage in the "mainstream" media,
> >however as a result of the internet the case has joined a long list of similar
> >crimes perpetrated by "undocumented workers." Illegals from Latin America have
> >become especially well known for sex crimes, as well as for a fatal drunk
> >driving epidemic and gang behaviors.
>
> >Often, these crimes have been facilitated by government policies in line with
> >corporate and special interest agendas to foster illegal immigration. In many
> >jurisdictions, police officers are specifically banned from reporting the
> >immigration status of suspects, while some municipalities have declared
> >themselves "sanctuary cities" sworn to protect illegal alien criminals from
> >deportation.
>
> >In a recent spectacular case that managed to break the "mainstream" media
> >silence about these problems, a "sanctuary" gang felon in San Francisco gunned
> >down a father and his two sons after avoiding deportation for earlier crimes
> >thanks to these kinds of policies.
>
> >Meanwhile, state governments are burdened with the costs of imprisoning
> >illegal immigrant felons who are present mainly because Washington is either
> >unwilling or unable to enforce federal immigration laws. The callousness of
> >the federal government was especially made clear in the recent case of the
> >execution of Jose Medellin, a gang rapist and murderer from Mexico who raped
> >and killed two girls in Texas in 1993. President George Bush actually sided
> >with the government of Mexico against Texas when Mexico argued in the
> >International Court of Justice that Medellin's sentence violated international
> >law.
>
> >Illegal alien sexual crime is not limited to the United States. All across the
> >Western world, Third World immigrants have participated in what is seen by
> >many as a rape epidemic against white women and girls. Many of these rapists
> >claim that white girls "ask" to be raped because of their clothes and
> >behavior, and another aspect is the weakness Third Worlders see in a West that
> >is unable to stem the immigration flow and even provides such illegals with
> >free food, accommodation and schooling. Rape is a sad but constant consequence
> >of war and invasion; many of these invaders see white women as part of their
> >spoils.
>
> >Increasingly, women's rights activists have begun to see the danger to women
> >of Third World immigration, which brings people to the West whose own cultures
> >have little or anything in common with accepted Western values, and which
> >often see women as chattel. One such activist, Brenda Walker, has penned an
> >important essay on the issue, Why Multiculturalism Is a Fraud and a Disaster
> >for Women's Rights.
>
> >News Source: EAU correspondent
>
> >Related Stories
> >The 'Dark Side' of Illegal Immigration:
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5610
>
> >Illegal Immigrants Take U.S. Lives Every Year
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5403
>
> >Illegal Immigrants Are Voting in American Elections
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5342
>
> >Italy: Troops on Streets to Combat Illegal Immigration Invasion
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5291
>
> >Italy Declares Emergency over Illegal Immigration Invasion
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5243
>
> >Shunning May be the Answer to Illegal Immigration
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5175
>
> >Italy 'Boots' 38 Egyptians as Part of Illegal Immigrant Crackdown
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5087
>
> >82,000 Illegal Aliens Enter US Each Month
> > http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=5045
>
> >2007-2008 European Americans United.
>
> "A good illegal alien is a dead illegal alien, no exceptions".
>
> ted- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Raping the women Americans won't rape.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Check reordering
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e222d72ae91bb4fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 11:27 am
From: George Grapman

h wrote:
> "Derald" <derald@invalid.net> wrote in message
> news:bc-dnVWbXs5uUUzVnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> "Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Come to
>>> think of it, that might be a reason to get leather - it would probably
>>> last
>>> longer than vinyl and end up costing less in the long run.
>> True enough. I'm still using a Tandy Leather checkbook cover kit
>> that I assembled in 1971! For one account, I typically run out of
>> deposit slips; bank nails me $10.00 for 50 of those so I use the generic
>> counter deposit forms as often as possible.
>
> Wow, that's high. I'm still working on the same box of 200 checks I got when
> I opened the account 8 years ago since I do 99% of transactions
> electronically. However, I've ordered at least two boxes of just deposit
> slips, and they come 200 to a box for $8.50.

My credit union does not require deposit slips for ATMs and the few
times I make a deposit in a branch I simply give the teller my account
number.
>
>

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 12:45 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

JR Weiss <jrweiss98155remove@remove.comcast.net> wrote

> We've already seen here that his "trivial" investment schemes simply DO NOT EXIST!

Never said a word about investment schemes, you silly little pathological liar.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: All bankers are criminals and should be treated as such.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/929a49de1380dfd5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 12:50 pm
From: "AllYou!"

In news:IqqdnWONbqyPpkzVnZ2dnUVZ_vjinZ2d@centurytel.net,
P. Maffia <pmaffia@centurytel.net> mused:
> Sorry, false statement. Congress has already passed and the
> President has signed a bill that bails out a substantial number
> (approx. 400,000) of persons liable to lose their homes to
> foreclosure. The same bill provides a First-time home buyers
> repayable credit; an additional standard deduction for property
> taxes (That is a even if they do not have enough deductions to
> use Schedule A, they can add $500 to their standard deduction
> for Property taxes) - this deduction is phased out above certain
> specified incomes; the low income housing credit was expanded;
> interest on certain private activity bonds for specified housing
> projects is not treated as tax preference items for AMT
> purposes.

This will fall on deaf ears. Some people just want to believe the
reality that they made for themselves.

> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> news:Lu9Ak.389$eb4.188@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> Paul Thomas, CPA wrote:
>>> "St Georges Day April 23rd" <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com>
>>> wrote
>>>> The people in charge of these banks which did this should be
>>>> killed and their property confiscated to pay off any debt.
>>>
>>>
>>> Now slow down sparkey. These lenders didn't go out, waylay
>>> some poor scmuck on the street and force them to take out a
>>> loan they couldn't support.
>>>
>>> It took at least two to create the problem. Lender and
>>> borrower. Greedy lenders. Greedy borrowers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> This is the only true way to handle these on-going bank
>>>> frauds and stock market swindles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And the folks who said they had income sufficient to repay the
>>> debt? I doubt that there is just one no-doc loan that
>>> contains a tad of expectations and puffery on the application
>>> filled out by the borrower. Nope, not just one for sure. In
>>> fact, I'd be surprised if there were one that didn't contain
>>> some erroneous claim by the borrower about their income or
>>> assets. Seems there is sufficient fraud on both sides to go
>>> around.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You have to remember that home equity loans are a relatively
>>> new idea. Brought out by lenders to meet the demand of
>>> borrowers. Greedy borrowers took to them like a teen to a
>>> text message. Borrowers took out home equity loans to do
>>> stupid things like go on vacation. They used their house like
>>> an ATM, borrowing any and all equity they could, refinancing
>>> and rolling up the HELOC, and second mortgages into one big
>>> first mortgage with a cash out and starting all over again. So
>>> who caused the mess you're in? If not you - the borrower -
>>> then who? And why is it someone elses fault that they let you
>>> - the borrower - be greedy?
>>>
>>> Is it the cops fault that they let you speed? It's the fault
>>> of the road department for making the roads so smooth that you
>>> can go twice the speed limit? So now what, you shouldn't have
>>> to pay the speeding ticket?
>> And only the lenders a being bailed out.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 1:49 pm
From: Dave

On 17 Sep, 10:17, St Georges Day April 23rd
<bbbbbdfgdfgdgd...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> The people in charge of these banks which did this should be killed
> and their property confiscated to pay off any debt.
>
> This is the only true way to handle these on-going bank frauds and
> stock market swindles.
>
> But the bankers work in extended crime families. It is necessary to
> arrest all of the bankers, CEOs and Board members as well as their
> entire extended families and business associates.
>
> Put them on trial for grand larceny and treason, and confiscate
> everything that they have swindled. This would erase the National Debt
> and give every American and Englishman their own home free and clear
> of debt.

Are you hungry or cold? What are you complaining about?

The money is only database entries so the government can hit the reset
button.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's an average wait time for large checks deposited?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca72020d3b4132af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 12:08 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

7 working days - from recent experience.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving a bear attack
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6fc0d7e660741dbe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 18 2008 1:51 pm
From: y_p_w

On Sep 17, 11:39 am, "Ryan Robbins" <redbird...@verizon.net> wrote:
> "y_p_w" <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2faabc58-36f0-4bd2-98a0-d159c998ca88@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >That black bear in Utah last year wasn't known as a serial campground
> >raider. It had done so maybe the day before, but that was definitely
> >a predatory attack on the kid.
>
> I'm wondering whether that kid, and others like him, was wearing the same
> clothes he wore when Mom and Dad cooked on the camp fire. It seems to me
> that in these campground attacks the bear believes the human is mighty
> tasty. Wearing clothes that have a strong odor (to the bear) of food would
> make a hungry bear think so.

Family claims that the kid might have had "some Skittles" candies in
the tent with him.

They also sued the Forest Service.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8730630

> >In any case, wailing away at a black bear should typically work.
> >Perhaps there are no guarantees, but everything I hear about black
> >bears are that they tend to avoid physical confrontation.
>
> This is most likely because the black bear has survived by being a master at
> stealth, using brush for concealment and trees for escape from larger
> predators when black bears weren't the largest creatures in the wild. These
> days, black bears living near humans have added nocturnal behavior to avoid
> confrontations.

Nocturnal concealment perhaps. Where there aren't a whole lot of
humans, they still seem to have activity during the daytime. I
spotted these black bears in the early afternoon:

http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears0jo9.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears1tr1.jpg

> The grizzly, on the other hand, evolved in wide open spaces. It had no place
> to hide; it had to fight.

I thought that grizzlies sometimes live in the periphery of the
forest. They don't seem to shy away from wide-open meadows.