Frugal Living: Sep 18, 2007

Tuesday, September 18, 2007

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does window film keep the cold out?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0dafcf6641a5c099?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 12:31 pm
From: "Tockk"

I have film on my shop windows, and it seems to block most of the infrared
heat rays from the afternoon sun. It blocks about 20% of the visable light
in the process.

As far as keeping heat inside, in cold weather, ya, it helps, but only a
little bit, and not enough to justify the expense.
You'd probably be much better off if you caulked around your windows real
well, and put up some extra heavy draperies over the windows.

When I owned a house, I'd put some sheet styrofoam over the windows that
didn't face the street, and also on the metal front door. It was cheap,
and simple to do, and cut heat loss enough to pay for itself. But, it also
made things fairly dark inside -- but that didn't matter much, as I was
working nights at the time, and slept during the day.

<skybearer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190050186.761647.115780@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> We have single-pane windows, but we don't want to spend $10,000 for
> new ones. One alternative we're considering is putting down window
> film. How effective is it at reducing heat loss? Does it block a lot
> of natural light?
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 12:51 pm
From: "Craig"

<s...@gmail.com> wrote...

> We have single-pane windows, but we don't want to spend $10,000 for
> new ones. One alternative we're considering is putting down window
> film. How effective is it at reducing heat loss? Does it block a lot
> of natural light?

As others have said, I wouldn't expect film applied to the window glass to
reduce heat loss much at all. If your windows would look good with
double-cell "honeycomb" window shades with minimal air gap between the
window wall/sill and the shades, they can help reduce winter heat loss quite
a bit and be much cheaper than new windows. A plastic film or sheet applied
inside or outside the window frame with an air gap between it and the pane
will help, but I wouldn't want to leave it up all summer long--and the
effort of installing/removing it annually would get to be a real pain. If
you go with the double-cell shades, wait until your local department store
has a sale on them. JC Penneys, for example, generally offers "65%"
discounts on custom shades at least once a year.

Craig

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:54 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 17, 10:29 am, skybea...@gmail.com wrote:
> We have single-pane windows, but we don't want to spend $10,000 for
> new ones. One alternative we're considering is putting down window
> film. How effective is it at reducing heat loss? Does it block a lot
> of natural light?

Here's an article that might be more of what you meant (I hope...since
window film...like them tinted low riders....is different than shrink
wrap insulation).

http://lifestyle.msn.com/HomeandGarden/BeJane/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=1052724

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cell phone... or walkie talkie?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/55e238b44ae2b359?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:04 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"LD" <ldancausse@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190050180.977649.95390@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
> In true frugalista fashion, we are looking for a machine that would
> keep the 4 of us (two parents and two children) hooked up, for the
> smallest price. This is purely for security reasons, and in case of
> emergency only. The most we are ever apart is 30 km (approx. 20
> miles).
>
> My first choice would be walkie-talkies; they would be much cheaper
> than cell phones (there's the initial investment when purchasing the
> thing, but that's it. No monthly fees, no additional gadgets that we
> don't need or want, etc. etc.). However, I don't know what their
> communication range is in a typical north-American city (we live in
> Ottawa, Ontario).
>
> If walkie-talkies are not a feasable option, then we would have to
> look into a cheap cell phone service. Any recommendations?
>
> Thank you for any advice and assistance you can provide.
>
> LD

technically, you will need an fcc license of some sort to operate
a walkie talkie of that range. dh knows what kind and it usually
says it on the pkg. but...how are they really gonna find you?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:05 pm
From: Parallax

LD wrote:
> In true frugalista fashion, we are looking for a machine that would
> keep the 4 of us (two parents and two children) hooked up, for the
> smallest price. This is purely for security reasons, and in case of
> emergency only. The most we are ever apart is 30 km (approx. 20
> miles).
>
> My first choice would be walkie-talkies; they would be much cheaper
> than cell phones (there's the initial investment when purchasing the
> thing, but that's it. No monthly fees, no additional gadgets that we
> don't need or want, etc. etc.). However, I don't know what their
> communication range is in a typical north-American city (we live in
> Ottawa, Ontario).
>
> If walkie-talkies are not a feasable option, then we would have to
> look into a cheap cell phone service. Any recommendations?
>
> Thank you for any advice and assistance you can provide.
>
> LD
>
The contractor I bought my house from gave all his workers the Nextel
walkie-talkies with the phone feature disabled since originally his
employees kept using the phones to call their relatives in Mexico.

I don't know if there's any sort of discount for that kind of
arrangement. You could ask the cell companies.

Replace '???????' with 'hotmail' to e-mail me.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:44 pm
From: remove22@sonic.net (Timothy J. Lee)

In article <1190050180.977649.95390@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>,
LD <ldancausse@hotmail.com> wrote:
>If walkie-talkies are not a feasable option, then we would have to
>look into a cheap cell phone service. Any recommendations?

Some of the prepaid cell phone plans are inexpensive (and may offer
discounted older model phones):

http://www.cellguru.net/prepaid_compare.htm

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 4:25 pm
From: SMS

LD wrote:

> If walkie-talkies are not a feasable option, then we would have to
> look into a cheap cell phone service. Any recommendations?
>
> Thank you for any advice and assistance you can provide.

I don't think that Canada has the wide selection of ultra-cheap prepaid
providers that we have in the U.S.. Here you could do what you want for
about US$10/month (for four phones, not each) with a MVNO prepaid
carrier (not including the initial cost of the phones). In Canada, with
Virgin, you'd be paying a minimum of CDN$33.33/month (for four phones,
not each), not including the initial cost of the phones.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 9 year old fridge: repair or replace?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9d38a539f6fddaca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:18 pm
From: deja_bhoot2000@yahoo.com

I purchased a side-by-side Sears (Kemore?) fridge in March, 1998,
which has worked fine all this time (I think it cost about $1200 back
then). There is no problem with the insides of the fridge itself.

As most modern fridges do, this also has a waterline hookup for cold
water, and for ice box. Ice function is working fine. For the cold
water, for the past 4-5 months, there was a short delay between
pressing switch, and water coming through in the small spigot. This
delay got from a few seconds to about 1 minute. But once the water
started, it was working fine.

Now the water function is not working. The water connection is fine,
as ice is being made at the same rate as before. It seems something
simple, a mechanical, or electrical switch in the water component, is
not functioning. I am afraid to pull out the control box mounted
outside, as it is not clear if it is just push fit, or some plastic
clips in a tab, or what, so it might break if not pulled properly. If
I could see someone take it out once, I could do it (I have fixed many
things myself in the past, including a microwave, toaster, electrical
circuits around the home, etc.)

There is no other problem with the fridge (jn fact, not even any
scratches), but I figure a nine year old fridge is probably no more
than $300 worth, if that much. So, spending $100 to $200 on calling an
appliance repairman seems silly. But I feel awfully guilty throwing
away a perfectly functioning fridge.

What's average life expectancy of a fridge? What's a reasonable price
for an appliance repairman in the SF Bay area to fix this? Any
referrals would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Bhoot Nath

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:30 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

deja_bhoot2000@yahoo.com wrote:

> I purchased a side-by-side Sears (Kemore?) fridge in March, 1998,
> which has worked fine all this time (I think it cost about $1200 back
> then). There is no problem with the insides of the fridge itself.

> As most modern fridges do, this also has a waterline hookup
> for cold water, and for ice box. Ice function is working fine.
> For the cold water, for the past 4-5 months, there was a short
> delay between pressing switch, and water coming through in
> the small spigot. This delay got from a few seconds to about
> 1 minute. But once the water started, it was working fine.

Sounds like the valve itself was getting sticky and now is stuck closed.

> Now the water function is not working. The water connection
> is fine, as ice is being made at the same rate as before. It
> seems something simple, a mechanical, or electrical switch
> in the water component, is not functioning.

Doesnt sound like an electrical switch problem with that delay effect,
that sounds much more like a sticking valve that initially took some
time to open and now doesnt open at all when its told to.

> I am afraid to pull out the control box mounted outside,
> as it is not clear if it is just push fit, or some plastic clips
> in a tab, or what, so it might break if not pulled properly.

I doubt its the control box, much more likely to be the valve.

> If I could see someone take it out once, I could do it
> (I have fixed many things myself in the past, including a
> microwave, toaster, electrical circuits around the home, etc.)

> There is no other problem with the fridge (jn fact, not
> even any scratches), but I figure a nine year old fridge
> is probably no more than $300 worth, if that much.

That isnt relevant to the cost of repairing it.

> So, spending $100 to $200 on calling an appliance repairman seems silly.

What matters on that is how likely it is that you will need
other callouts for other problems, not the value of the fridge.

> But I feel awfully guilty throwing away a perfectly functioning fridge.

And so you should.

> What's average life expectancy of a fridge?

Much longer than that.

> What's a reasonable price for an appliance repairman in the SF
> Bay area to fix this? Any referrals would be much appreciated.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:54 pm
From: Daniel Ganek

deja_bhoot2000@yahoo.com wrote:
> I purchased a side-by-side Sears (Kemore?) fridge in March, 1998,
> which has worked fine all this time (I think it cost about $1200 back
> then). There is no problem with the insides of the fridge itself.
>
> As most modern fridges do, this also has a waterline hookup for cold
> water, and for ice box. Ice function is working fine. For the cold
> water, for the past 4-5 months, there was a short delay between
> pressing switch, and water coming through in the small spigot. This
> delay got from a few seconds to about 1 minute. But once the water
> started, it was working fine.
>
> Now the water function is not working. The water connection is fine,
> as ice is being made at the same rate as before. It seems something
> simple, a mechanical, or electrical switch in the water component, is
> not functioning. I am afraid to pull out the control box mounted
> outside, as it is not clear if it is just push fit, or some plastic
> clips in a tab, or what, so it might break if not pulled properly. If
> I could see someone take it out once, I could do it (I have fixed many
> things myself in the past, including a microwave, toaster, electrical
> circuits around the home, etc.)
>
> There is no other problem with the fridge (jn fact, not even any
> scratches), but I figure a nine year old fridge is probably no more
> than $300 worth, if that much. So, spending $100 to $200 on calling an
> appliance repairman seems silly. But I feel awfully guilty throwing
> away a perfectly functioning fridge.
>
> What's average life expectancy of a fridge? What's a reasonable price
> for an appliance repairman in the SF Bay area to fix this? Any
> referrals would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bhoot Nath
>

A couple of ideas:

1) See if Sears has a repair book for refrigerators. I know they have them
for washers and dryers - but then a refrig isn't exactly a user repairable appliance.

2) Call Sears and ask them how much a service contract is for this refrig.
It may be cheaper to buy a 1 year service contract than pay big bucks for a major
repair. I did this once when I couldn't fix a dryer; it kept failing after my three or four
fixes. Turned out to be the control board and the service contract cost less than
the repair would have. The Sears rep recommend this route.

/dan

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:59 pm
From: James

On Sep 17, 4:18 pm, deja_bhoot2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I purchased a side-by-side Sears (Kemore?) fridge in March, 1998,
> which has worked fine all this time (I think it cost about $1200 back
> then). There is no problem with the insides of the fridge itself.
>
> As most modern fridges do, this also has a waterline hookup for cold
> water, and for ice box. Ice function is working fine. For the cold
> water, for the past 4-5 months, there was a short delay between
> pressing switch, and water coming through in the small spigot. This
> delay got from a few seconds to about 1 minute. But once the water
> started, it was working fine.
>
> Now the water function is not working. The water connection is fine,
> as ice is being made at the same rate as before. It seems something
> simple, a mechanical, or electrical switch in the water component, is
> not functioning. I am afraid to pull out the control box mounted
> outside, as it is not clear if it is just push fit, or some plastic
> clips in a tab, or what, so it might break if not pulled properly. If
> I could see someone take it out once, I could do it (I have fixed many
> things myself in the past, including a microwave, toaster, electrical
> circuits around the home, etc.)
>
> There is no other problem with the fridge (jn fact, not even any
> scratches), but I figure a nine year old fridge is probably no more
> than $300 worth, if that much. So, spending $100 to $200 on calling an
> appliance repairman seems silly. But I feel awfully guilty throwing
> away a perfectly functioning fridge.
>
> What's average life expectancy of a fridge? What's a reasonable price
> for an appliance repairman in the SF Bay area to fix this? Any
> referrals would be much appreciated.
>
Just to make your calculations more complicated - how much electricity
does your old fridge use versus a new Energy Star model. Cause you
could sell your old one as is, and take the money you get from it, and
the money you would have spent on repairs and apply it to a new fridge
that will cost you a fraction of the electricity to run.

James

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 2:32 pm
From: Ward Abbott

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 16:54:38 -0400, Daniel Ganek <degspam@comcast.net>
wrote:

>2) Call Sears and ask them how much a service contract is for this refrig.

On a nine year old refrigerator? They probably would laugh at you
and hang up.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:40 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 17, 1:18 pm, deja_bhoot2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I purchased a side-by-side Sears (Kemore?) fridge in March, 1998,
> which has worked fine all this time (I think it cost about $1200 back
> then). There is no problem with the insides of the fridge itself.
>
> As most modern fridges do, this also has a waterline hookup for cold
> water, and for ice box. Ice function is working fine. For the cold
> water, for the past 4-5 months, there was a short delay between
> pressing switch, and water coming through in the small spigot. This
> delay got from a few seconds to about 1 minute. But once the water
> started, it was working fine.
>
> Now the water function is not working. The water connection is fine,
> as ice is being made at the same rate as before. It seems something
> simple, a mechanical, or electrical switch in the water component, is
> not functioning. I am afraid to pull out the control box mounted
> outside, as it is not clear if it is just push fit, or some plastic
> clips in a tab, or what, so it might break if not pulled properly. If
> I could see someone take it out once, I could do it (I have fixed many
> things myself in the past, including a microwave, toaster, electrical
> circuits around the home, etc.)
>
> There is no other problem with the fridge (jn fact, not even any
> scratches), but I figure a nine year old fridge is probably no more
> than $300 worth, if that much. So, spending $100 to $200 on calling an
> appliance repairman seems silly. But I feel awfully guilty throwing
> away a perfectly functioning fridge.
>
> What's average life expectancy of a fridge? What's a reasonable price
> for an appliance repairman in the SF Bay area to fix this? Any
> referrals would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bhoot Nath

You are still under the life expectancy for this machine. If
everything else works on the refrigerator...just get one of those
spigot jugs and chill your water inside the machine....or get a water
delivery service where you have a water chiller included. If it has
been maintained, this machine should last another 5-10 years.
Personally I'd look up the part on Sears...it might be very simple to
switch out. I know the latch thingie on my old microwave was.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:47 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Sep 17, 1:59 pm, James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> On Sep 17, 4:18 pm, deja_bhoot2...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > I purchased a side-by-side Sears (Kemore?) fridge in March, 1998,
> > which has worked fine all this time (I think it cost about $1200 back
> > then). There is no problem with the insides of the fridge itself.
>
> > As most modern fridges do, this also has a waterline hookup for cold
> > water, and for ice box. Ice function is working fine. For the cold
> > water, for the past 4-5 months, there was a short delay between
> > pressing switch, and water coming through in the small spigot. This
> > delay got from a few seconds to about 1 minute. But once the water
> > started, it was working fine.
>
> > Now the water function is not working. The water connection is fine,
> > as ice is being made at the same rate as before. It seems something
> > simple, a mechanical, or electrical switch in the water component, is
> > not functioning. I am afraid to pull out the control box mounted
> > outside, as it is not clear if it is just push fit, or some plastic
> > clips in a tab, or what, so it might break if not pulled properly. If
> > I could see someone take it out once, I could do it (I have fixed many
> > things myself in the past, including a microwave, toaster, electrical
> > circuits around the home, etc.)
>
> > There is no other problem with the fridge (jn fact, not even any
> > scratches), but I figure a nine year old fridge is probably no more
> > than $300 worth, if that much. So, spending $100 to $200 on calling an
> > appliance repairman seems silly. But I feel awfully guilty throwing
> > away a perfectly functioning fridge.
>
> > What's average life expectancy of a fridge? What's a reasonable price
> > for an appliance repairman in the SF Bay area to fix this? Any
> > referrals would be much appreciated.
>
> Just to make your calculations more complicated - how much electricity
> does your old fridge use versus a new Energy Star model. Cause you
> could sell your old one as is, and take the money you get from it, and
> the money you would have spent on repairs and apply it to a new fridge
> that will cost you a fraction of the electricity to run.
>
> James- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Know what would be nice? A site like fueleconomy.gov for appliances.
I mean how much more efficient are the refrigerators now than they
were 9 years ago? Let's say the one the OP got was "energy star" at
the time....is a new "energy star" model going to be much better?
Enough to justify the expense? I remember getting a fridge replaced
by my local utility company in 92...I kept it until about 3 years
ago. But I didn't see any dramatic decrease on the initial
replacement or when I got this last one.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 4:11 pm
From: "SJF"

<deja_bhoot2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1190060293.321484.3310@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
>I purchased a side-by-side Sears (Kemore?) fridge in March, 1998,
> which has worked fine all this time (I think it cost about $1200 back
> then). There is no problem with the insides of the fridge itself.
>
> As most modern fridges do, this also has a waterline hookup for cold
> water, and for ice box. Ice function is working fine. For the cold
> water, for the past 4-5 months, there was a short delay between
> pressing switch, and water coming through in the small spigot. This
> delay got from a few seconds to about 1 minute. But once the water
> started, it was working fine.
>
> Now the water function is not working. The water connection is fine,
> as ice is being made at the same rate as before. It seems something
> simple, a mechanical, or electrical switch in the water component, is
> not functioning. I am afraid to pull out the control box mounted
> outside, as it is not clear if it is just push fit, or some plastic
> clips in a tab, or what, so it might break if not pulled properly. If
> I could see someone take it out once, I could do it (I have fixed many
> things myself in the past, including a microwave, toaster, electrical
> circuits around the home, etc.)
>
> There is no other problem with the fridge (jn fact, not even any
> scratches), but I figure a nine year old fridge is probably no more
> than $300 worth, if that much. So, spending $100 to $200 on calling an
> appliance repairman seems silly. But I feel awfully guilty throwing
> away a perfectly functioning fridge.
>
> What's average life expectancy of a fridge? What's a reasonable price
> for an appliance repairman in the SF Bay area to fix this? Any
> referrals would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bhoot Nath>

I had a similar problem. It was the solenoid operated valve as Rod Speed
has suggested. The replacement part cost about $50. I had it installed for
a total cost of about $150. Seems like a service call would be worthwhile,
or you might be up to replacing the valve yourself. It's pretty accessible.

SJF

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get Ahead of the Game
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4d3289653e0abbf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:21 pm
From: uvme

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 1:37 pm
From: George Grapman

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: "top choice" lumber at Lowe's - NOT!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fa32db457bb0a1c8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:00 pm
From: Parallax

OhioGuy wrote:
> I was just at Lowe's looking for some 1"x3" trim to use around the window
> in a bathroom I'm remodeling.
>
> The wood they had available was twisted, warped, and all messed up. It
> was obvious that it had all been picked through, because about 2/3 of the
> space there was open - most of the boards were gone.
>
> In the past, I've complained about the lack of selection, with no results.
> In fact, one employee told me "Oh, you'd be surprised - some folks will buy
> them and just use a small section - they don't mind that they're warped".
>
> I discovered what I think is the REAL reason why they aren't in any hurry
> to restock, and why they will happily keep lumber nobody would buy on
> display - because it drives people over to the other side of the aisle,
> where they have EXPENSIVE wood in the same dimensions. Yep, wood that costs
> 3x to 4x as much, looks about the same, but is SPECIALTY wood like fir,
> instead of the plain old pine. What a crock!

The other reason if they restock, people will avoid the crap pieces all
over again. If that's all that's left, some people will cave and just
buy it. The store doesn't want the substandard wood either. I had a
friend redoing his porch, and I think he picked over about 4-5 Home
Depots to get enough good wood to finish the job. Luckily for him their
stores are like manure in this area.

Replace '???????' with 'hotmail' to e-mail me.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 4:12 pm
From: SMS

Parallax wrote:

> The other reason if they restock, people will avoid the crap pieces all
> over again. If that's all that's left, some people will cave and just
> buy it. The store doesn't want the substandard wood either. I had a
> friend redoing his porch, and I think he picked over about 4-5 Home
> Depots to get enough good wood to finish the job. Luckily for him their
> stores are like manure in this area.

I once asked at Home Depot for them to get down another pallet of wood,
and they pointed to the remains of the previous pallet, a bunch of
warped mis-shapen boards. To their credit they did go ahead and get down
another pallet, but it took them a long time.

I have to calculate the time to drive to a real lumber store versus
picking through the junk at Home Depot. Lowe's actually seems better
than Home Depot in my area. Much better service.

I'll never forget asking an HD to cut a piece of plywood for me. He
pulled out a tape measure and asked me which 8" I wanted trimmed, the
long one or the short one. Well he had a tape measure that showed both
inches and tenths. He thought there were two kinds of inches, not
understanding that 8/10 of a foot is not the same as 8".

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 4:29 pm
From: George

Parallax wrote:

>
> The other reason if they restock, people will avoid the crap pieces all
> over again. If that's all that's left, some people will cave and just
> buy it. The store doesn't want the substandard wood either. I had a
> friend redoing his porch, and I think he picked over about 4-5 Home
> Depots to get enough good wood to finish the job. Luckily for him their
> stores are like manure in this area.
>
Yet people seem to think the big box stores are the only suppliers in
town and believe all of the marketing about how great they are. I did a
deck on the house and ordered the lumber from a local lumber yard using
a list I emailed to them. They dropped it in my driveway. A couple
neighbors were amazed at the quality and commented "you must have been
at the "depot" all day picking this out". I explained I had ordered it
sight unseen and all of the wood at the local yard is decent quality
with no picking required because thats what they order.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 4:26 pm
From: Logan Shaw

SMS wrote:
> I'll never forget asking an HD to cut a piece of plywood for me. He
> pulled out a tape measure and asked me which 8" I wanted trimmed, the
> long one or the short one. Well he had a tape measure that showed both
> inches and tenths. He thought there were two kinds of inches, not
> understanding that 8/10 of a foot is not the same as 8".

Maybe he was from a foreign country and mystified by our strange
measurement system. :-)

I had a similar experience at the supermarket deli one time. Having
decided 1/2 lb. of roast beef was too much and 1/4 was too little,
I came up on the idea of walking up to the counter and asking for
1/3 lb. I got a blank look from the woman behind the counter.
Noticing they had a digital scale, I volunteered "point three three
pounds". The blank look continued. I tried "one third of a pound
is point three three pounds" and STILL the blank look was unchanged.
I can't recall what I eventually got (maybe 1/4 lb or maybe 1/2 lb),
but whatever it was, it wasn't 1/3 lb.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Alan Greenspan
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8138e8a96ed04e01?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:06 pm
From: rick++

Never understimate the creativity of the financial industry
to discover all the loopholes (some more legal than others)
to make as large of a profit as it can. Then the schemes
eventually dry up hurting the latecomers and the ignorant.
Its always tempting to jump on the latest bandwagon.
But if its "to good to be true" then it eventually is.

These booms and "corrections" seem to repeat regularly.
Many of the so-called "improvements" in the real estate
process like CDOs were in response to the last US crisis
20 years ago. Theoretically governement regulaters are
supposed to discover and halt them. But most of these
groups in the USA are woefully underfunded by lobbyists
and barely scratch the surface.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Milenko Kindl Cvrcko jhjhj
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2954b06287392c79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:56 pm
From: Igor Dunjic-Duke

Milenko Kindl

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush on Monday
nominated Michael Mukasey, a retired federal judge and law-and-order
conservative, to replace beleaguered Alberto Gonzales as U.S. attorney
general.
ADVERTISEMENT

The 66-year-old Mukasey drew quick praise from a number of Democrats
as well as Republicans, suggesting he may win relatively easy
confirmation in a Democratic-led Senate, which has been sharply
divided over administration terrorism policies that some charge
violate civil liberties.

As a U.S. District Court judge in New York for 18 years, Mukasey
presided over a number of high-profile cases, including the 1993
bombing of the World Trade Center for which he received praise from a
federal appeals court.

"Judge Mukasey is clear-eyed about the threat our nation faces," Bush
said in introducing him at the White House. "I urge the Senate to
confirm Judge Mukasey promptly."

Mukasey, standing beside Bush, said the Justice Department must help
protect the nation's security as well as "the safety of our children,
the commerce that assures our prosperity, and the rights and liberties
that define us as a nation."

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, who has been
pushing a reluctant White House for information about its domestic
spying program and Gonzales' firing of federal prosecutors, gave no
indication when he will order confirmation hearings.

But Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said: "Our focus now will be on
securing the relevant information we need so we can proceed to
schedule fair and thorough hearings."

Mukasey, an authority on national security issues, emerged as Bush's
choice after Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid vowed last week to
would block a then leading nominee, former U.S. Solicitor General
Theodore Olson, as too partisan.

"I'm glad President Bush listened to Congress," Reid said. "Judge
Mukasey has strong professional credentials and a reputation for
independence."

Under bipartisan pressure, Gonzales, a longtime Bush friend who
earlier served as White House counsel, announced his resignation last
month, effective on Monday.

Gonzales was criticized at home and abroad for the administration's
tough anti-terrorism policies. He also drew fire from Democrats as
well as some Republicans for his ouster last year of nine federal
prosecutors.

While critics questioned Gonzales' truthfulness and ability to lead
the Justice Department, Bush saluted him as he named Mukasey as his
successor, calling Gonzales an "honorable and decent man."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Milenko Kindl Cvrcko jhjh
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/da05511219e28a70?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:57 pm
From: Igor Dunjic-Duke

Milenko Kindl

"Judge Mukasey is clear-eyed about the threat our nation faces," Bush
said in introducing him at the White House. "I urge the Senate to
confirm Judge Mukasey promptly."

But Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said: "Our focus now will be on
securing the relevant information we need so we can proceed to
schedule fair and thorough hearings."

"I'm glad President Bush listened to Congress," Reid said. "Judge
Mukasey has strong professional credentials and a reputation for
independence."

Under bipartisan pressure, Gonzales, a longtime Bush friend who
earlier served as White House counsel, announced his resignation last
month, effective on Monday.

While critics questioned Gonzales' truthfulness and ability to lead
the Justice Department, Bush saluted him as he named Mukasey as his
successor, calling Gonzales an "honorable and decent man."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Milenko Kindl Cvrcko jhj
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/08c8f18f7ec6de97?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Sep 17 2007 3:58 pm
From: Igor Dunjic-Duke

Milenko Kindl

"Judge Mukasey is clear-eyed about the threat our nation faces," Bush
said in introducing him at the White House. "I urge the Senate to
confirm Judge Mukasey promptly."

But Leahy, a Vermont Democrat, said: "Our focus now will be on
securing the relevant information we need so we can proceed to
schedule fair and thorough hearings."

"I'm glad President Bush listened to Congress," Reid said. "Judge
Mukasey has strong professional credentials and a reputation for
independence."

Under bipartisan pressure, Gonzales, a longtime Bush friend who
earlier served as White House counsel, announced his resignation last
month, effective on Monday.

While critics questioned Gonzales' truthfulness and ability to lead
the Justice Department, Bush saluted him as he named Mukasey as his
successor, calling Gonzales an "honorable and decent man."

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Tuesday, September 18, 2007

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest