Frugal Living: Jun 18, 2010

Friday, June 18, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 23 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey You Deadbeat Foreclosure Walk-Aways! YOU STILL OWE WHAT YOU DIDN'T
PAY!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c67a66bbf1fe29ae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 16 2010 7:56 pm
From: Beam Me Up Scotty

Obama has their back....

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 3:42 am
From: Jeff Thies

Beam Me Up Scotty wrote:
>
> Obama has their back....
>
How's that?

Or are you just saying that with nothing to back it up, because you can?

If, you read the article, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have the best
position, which is the opposite of what you are implying.

But, you had trimmed the entire post, so your intent wasn't logic,
just anger. A lot of that going round.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: our local telephone company is being sold - question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/868285b96c962c6b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 2:55 am
From: Ohioguy

I got a letter in the mail from Verizon, which provides our local
telephone service, saying that service in about 12 states is being sold
to Frontier. I looked up Frontier, and they have a really lousy history
of customer service, including not putting any money into their high
speed internet systems.

What is intriguing in the letter is this:

"unless you elect to use a service provider other than one of the
Verizon Companies prior to the closing date, Frontier will automatically
become your service provider for any services you currently receive from
Verizon, including local and long distance.."

"You always have the right to select another provider for your local and
long distance services, if you wish to do so and another provider is
available. This decision is entirely up to you..."

I've never heard that I had a choice in my local telephone service
before - I thought there was simply one choice, and that was it -
monopoly service. How do I find out if there is actually a choice?

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 3:11 am
From: Ohioguy

Oh, and look at this:

http://www.connecttofrontier.com/index.html?mrc=ps-ctf-g-b-frontier+phone+ohio

Notice the prices for DSL and local telephone service. Yowza!

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 8:19 am
From: James

On Jun 17, 5:55 am, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I got a letter in the mail from Verizon, which provides our local
> telephone service, saying that service in about 12 states is being sold
> to Frontier. I looked up Frontier, and they have a really lousy history
> of customer service, including not putting any money into their high
> speed internet systems.
>
> What is intriguing in the letter is this:
>
> "unless you elect to use a service provider other than one of the
> Verizon Companies prior to the closing date, Frontier will automatically
> become your service provider for any services you currently receive from
> Verizon, including local and long distance.."
>
> "You always have the right to select another provider for your local and
> long distance services, if you wish to do so and another provider is
> available. This decision is entirely up to you..."
>
> I've never heard that I had a choice in my local telephone service
> before - I thought there was simply one choice, and that was it -
> monopoly service. How do I find out if there is actually a choice?

Depends where you are.

Here in Toronto there are a number of choices.

Bell Canada owns the telephone lines to the houses, but other
companies can buy access to them at wholesale rates. So I actually pay
Primus for my local, long distanace and DSL, but Primus buys the
rights to use the lines from Bell. I pay substantially lower, but if
there is a problem, there can be finger pointing between Primus and
Bell.

I could also go to our cable provider and get local phone service over
cable.

James

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 2:58 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"James" <jlinn@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:d6a1c11d-11db-4c84-934b-8db1dfe92dc4@42g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 17, 5:55 am, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:

>
> I could also go to our cable provider and get local phone service over
> cable.
>
> James

I'm in Southern Ontario and my cable company Cogeco provides our phone
service using VOIP. They provide a free internet/phone modem cable,
batteries for 911 emergency etc. you can buy as many or as little services
from them as possible. You can still buy long distance elsewhere as well.
You can also buy cable internet from a 3rd party. BTW our home alarm
system works with the cable phone. basically Our Television, internet, and
phone services are with one company on one bill and we find that saved us
enuf money each month to get HD television programming on 2 TVs.

To Ohio Guy. Simply Google or look into your local yellow pages for
telephone and DSL/Internet providers in your zip code. Some area's are more
competitive that others. Pick one for local calling and another for
internet if you have to. My understanding, and I'm Canadian so I may be
wrong, is that the US does not allow phone monopolies and hasn't since the
early or mid 1980's when they broke up ATT. Verizon or Frontier may own the
lines but the law should should be (FCC?) that whomever owns the lines HAS
to allow access to competitors and 3rd party sales. All that depends is
whether there are other compies that will compete for your business in your
zip code.

BTW in the USA you can get Television thru your phone line now.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 6:59 pm
From: "terrable"

"Ohioguy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:TimSn.99977$0B5.93657@newsfe05.iad...
> I got a letter in the mail from Verizon, which provides our local
> telephone service, saying that service in about 12 states is being sold to
> Frontier. I looked up Frontier, and they have a really lousy history of
> customer service, including not putting any money into their high speed
> internet systems.
>
> What is intriguing in the letter is this:
>
> "unless you elect to use a service provider other than one of the Verizon
> Companies prior to the closing date, Frontier will automatically become
> your service provider for any services you currently receive from Verizon,
> including local and long distance.."
>
> "You always have the right to select another provider for your local and
> long distance services, if you wish to do so and another provider is
> available. This decision is entirely up to you..."
>
> I've never heard that I had a choice in my local telephone service
> before - I thought there was simply one choice, and that was it - monopoly
> service. How do I find out if there is actually a choice?

CLECs (Competitive Local Exchange Carrier) have been around since 1996. Look
in your local yellow pages or search on the internet for providers in your
area.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 7:34 pm
From: Shaun Eli

I wonder how long that web page has been up, since they spelled
Digital "Digitial."

You'd think a large corporation would have more than one person review
ad copy, which is essentially what a web page is.

Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com

(if you point out any typos on my website I'd write back and thank
you!)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What I hate about Big Oil
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5e9a909924c51df5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 6:19 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 16, 9:34 pm, "5511 Dead, 644 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 16:42:32 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 7:19 pm, Phlip <phlip2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 16, 5:04 pm, John David Galt <j...@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> > His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
> >> > Tantra-Hammock wrote:
>
> >> > > What I hate about Big Oil is their incessant campaign to appear
> >> > > "environmentally friendly." Funny, the drivers of pollution and the
> >> > > deniers of evolution toward smarter forms of transportation, must
> >> > > appear to do the opposite.
>
> >> > The eco-nut movement is today's orthodox faith: believe it or else!
> >> > Naturally every business person who wants politicians to leave him
> >> > alone kisses its giant golden ass.
>
> >> Wow I sure wish everyone was as rational about the situation as you.
> >> For example, some eco-nut here actually thinks the well is unstoppable!
>
> >> "Well...none of what is likely to happen is good, in fact...it's
> >> about as bad as it gets. I am convinced the erosion and compromising of
> >> the entire system is accelerating and attacking more key structural
> >> areas of the well, the blow out preventer and surrounding strata
> >> holding it all up and together. This is evidenced by the tilt of the
> >> blow out preventer and the erosion which has exposed the well head
> >> connection. What eventually will happen is that the blow out preventer
> >> will literally tip over if they do not run supports to it as the
> >> currents push on it. I suspect they will run those supports as cables
> >> tied to anchors very soon, if they don't, they are inviting disaster
> >> that much sooner.
>
> >> "Eventually even that will be futile as the well casings cannot
> >> support the weight of the massive system above with out the cement bond
> >> to the earth and that bond is being eroded away. When enough is eroded
> >> away the casings will buckle and the BOP will collapse the well. If and
> >> when you begin to see oil and gas coming up around the well area from
> >> under the BOP? or the area around the well head connection and casing
> >> sinking more and more rapidly? ...it won't be too long after that the
> >> entire system fails. BP must be aware of this, they are mapping the sea
> >> floor sonically and that is not a mere exercise. Our Gov't must be well
> >> aware too, they just are not telling us.
>
> >> "All of these things lead to only one place, a fully wide open
> >> well bore directly to the oil deposit...after that, it goes into the
> >> realm of "the worst things you can think of" The well may come
> >> completely apart as the inner liners fail. There is still a very long
> >> drill string in the well, that could literally come flying out...as I
> >> said...all the worst things you can think of are a possibility, but the
> >> very least damaging outcome as bad as it is, is that we are stuck with
> >> a wide open gusher blowing out 150,000 barrels a day of raw oil or
> >> more. There isn't any "cap dome" or any other suck fixer device on
> >> earth that exists or could be built that will stop it from gushing out
> >> and doing more and more damage to the gulf. While at the same time also
> >> doing more damage to the well, making the chance of halting it with a
> >> kill from the bottom up less and less likely to work, which as it
> >> stands now?....is the only real chance we have left to stop it all.
>
> >> "It's a race now...a race to drill the relief wells and take our
> >> last chance at killing this monster before the whole weakened, wore
> >> out, blown out, leaking and failing system gives up its last gasp in a
> >> horrific crescendo.
>
> >> "We are not even 2 months into it, barely half way by even
> >> optimistic estimates. The damage done by the leaked oil now is
> >> virtually immeasurable already and it will not get better, it can only
> >> get worse. No matter how much they can collect, there will still be
> >> thousands and thousands of gallons leaking out every minute, every hour
> >> of every day. We have 2 months left before the relief wells are even
> >> near in position and set up to take a kill shot and that is being
> >> optimistic as I said.
>
> >> "Over the next 2 months the mechanical situation also cannot
> >> improve, it can only get worse, getting better is an impossibility.
> >> While they may make some gains on collecting the leaked oil, the
> >> structural situation cannot heal itself. It will continue to erode and
> >> flow out more oil and eventually the inevitable collapse which cannot
> >> be stopped will happen. It is only a simple matter of who can "get
> >> there first"...us or the well."
>
> >>http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/06/worst-already-true-BP-
> well...
>
> >> ------
>
> >> But I'm sure anyone who claims to call themselves John Galt can remain
> >> level-headed, and not give in to fear and denialism in our time of
> >> need!
>
> > The world will react once they have the shit to their necks,
> > particularly the powerful ones that can change the world through the
> > political channels.
>
> > Many of the most affected people are also the beautiful people with with
> > a yacht on the marina and the SUV in the garage.
>
> > Very few of the "little people" has waterfront property around here.
>
> No, but a hell of a lot of them were making their living from the ocean.

They were, but they are already on food stamps. And I'm sure we can
bring that fish from Canada or China.

But the fishermen will be compensated down the line, so maybe they can
get some good money and move on to another trade.

The beautiful people will still have to live with the filth in their
backyard. Tourism will be dead. Maybe the motorboat industry will be
badly damaged too. (That's really good news indeed.)

(I quote)

* Driving a motorboat with an outboard engine for one hour may make
as much air pollution as driving a car for 800 miles (1300 km). Why?
Because the U.S. government allows motorboat engines to be made with
no pollution controls. * Smog is formed when exhaust gases rise into
the air and are "cooked" in the sunlight.

The chemicals in smog can kill plants and burn people's and animals'
eyes, noses, and throats. * Motorboat engines also pollute the water
with their exhaust and by spilling oil and gasoline. Every year in the
U.S., the total amount of water pollution from motorboats may equal 10
to 15 Exxon Valdez oil spill disasters! The chemicals in this
pollution can kill fish eggs and other forms of water life. *

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EPG/is_n9_v28/ai_16817900/

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 6:28 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

PR, PR, PR... The MOTORBOAT INDUSTRY wants to look good, and though
they can't do jackshit about it, they claim their share of cleanup...

http://www.motorboating.com/photo_gallery.jsp?ID=1000025261

Hey, that's not a motorboat! That's the best response: RIDE A KAYAK/
CANOE OR RIDE A BIKE!

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 1:34 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 17, 10:25 am, "5511 Dead, 644 since 1/20/09" <d...@dead.com>
wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 05:49:30 -0700, His Highness the TibetanMonkey,
> Creator of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:

> > They were, but they are already on food stamps. And I'm sure we can
> > bring that fish from Canada or China.
>
> Canada's pretty well fished out. They had to shut down the Grand Banks a
> few years ago, and it will be ten years before they might recover. Even
> if you ignore the cost of importing fish from China, there is the
> significant problem that the entire country is run like BP, and so there
> will be significant health and safety concerns. They would cheerfully
> pump plutonium dust into the fish if it could enhance profits in some
> way.
>
> Of course, that increases the trade imbalance...

Well, they are #1 and #2 in the fish import list, so we may as well
get used to plutonized fish from China as Canada exhausts its
fisheries.

> > But the fishermen will be compensated down the line, so maybe they can
> > get some good money and move on to another trade.
>
> Some might. A lot won't, though. For one thing, the economic climate
> doesn't favor small businessmen. For another, it's an entire lifestyle,
> in some families for generations, one that benefitted America. You can't
> replace that with $10 an hour jobs at WalMart.

Some may as well find a good business opportunity in the disaster...
for a while.

Then they can find job at Walmart.

>
>
>
> > The beautiful people will still have to live with the filth in their
> > backyard. Tourism will be dead. Maybe the motorboat industry will be
> > badly damaged too. (That's really good news indeed.)
>
> Oh, they'll just find a new ocean-front paradise to despoil.

A paradise that big is not that easy to find, you know. They can go
and enjoy pristine waters somewhere in the Caribbean on a cruise ship,
but then back to reality.

The point is that this time around, it won't only be the poor like
when Katrina.

Big mess like this is very democratic.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 1:54 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 15, 5:30 pm, "Tyrone" <T...@its.invalid> wrote:

> Thebigoilcompanies ARE very careful to do as little damage as possible to
> the environment. They supply the energy that is absolutely necessary to
> make society function. They are all working on alternative forms of energy
> that is more environmentally friendly, but until some future time, those
> forms of energy are not sufficient to replace the old-fashioned, polluting
> kind of energy that you use in your car and provides the fuel to produce the
> electricity you use to light your home, play your TV, etc.
>
> The alternative would be to go back to the horse and buggy days.
>
> Eventually something needs to be done, but without a national policy to
> force it, things will move at a snail's pace.

You will never have a national policy of CONSERVATION because whoever
proposes that will be out of office. If Obama had to fight over
universal healthcare tooth and nail, winning support for higher gas
taxes would lead to riots on the streets or worse.

All it takes is:

1- HIGHER GAS TAXES,

2- TAME TRAFFIC to make roads safe for other vehicles,

3- ALLOW BICYCLES TO TAKE THE LANE,

4- IMPROVE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION AND FUND ALTERNATIVE VEHICLES with
the money collected --not for wars!

By the way, we don't need the buggy carts.

--------------------------------------------------------

COMING OUT OF THE MONEY JUNGLE:

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where do we get dealer's true cost (invoice?) for a Honda Accord or CRV?

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/901b5c1615400969?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 8:44 am
From: "Mina O."

On 13 Jun 2010 19:05:30 GMT, Jeff wrote:

>> I looked in KBB and didn't see the dealer cost ... can someone show it
>> to me for a 2010 Honda Accord, for example?
>
> In the "new car" box, select make and model and select Honda and Accord
> from the lists. Enter your zip code. Click "pricing" next to the
> picture of the 2010 Accord. Click on the trim level you want from the
> list. You will get the list and invoice prices.

This can't be correct because the "pricing" to the dealership has nothing
to do with the zip code. The only thing the zip code affects is the
destination charges which are independent of the dealer invoice!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 9:20 am
From: Jeff

"Mina O." <minaolson@nospamapple.com> wrote in news:km1v488bhs9x
$.dlg@apple.com:

> On 13 Jun 2010 19:05:30 GMT, Jeff wrote:
>
>>> I looked in KBB and didn't see the dealer cost ... can someone show it
>>> to me for a 2010 Honda Accord, for example?
>>
>> In the "new car" box, select make and model and select Honda and Accord
>> from the lists. Enter your zip code. Click "pricing" next to the
>> picture of the 2010 Accord. Click on the trim level you want from the
>> list. You will get the list and invoice prices.
>
> This can't be correct because the "pricing" to the dealership has nothing
> to do with the zip code. The only thing the zip code affects is the
> destination charges which are independent of the dealer invoice!
>

Agreed, it doesn't affect pricing. The zip code is merely for their
marketing purposes to connect you to dealers in your area.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 11:33 am
From: James

On Jun 17, 12:20 pm, Jeff <j...@donotspam.me> wrote:
> "Mina O." <minaol...@nospamapple.com> wrote in news:km1v488bhs9x
> $....@apple.com:
>
> > On 13 Jun 2010 19:05:30 GMT, Jeff wrote:
>
> >>> I looked in KBB and didn't see the dealer cost ... can someone show it
> >>> to me for a 2010 Honda Accord, for example?
>
> >> In the "new car" box, select make and model and select Honda and Accord
> >> from the lists. Enter your zip code. Click "pricing" next to the
> >> picture of the 2010 Accord. Click on the trim level you want from the
> >> list. You will get the list and invoice prices.
>
> > This can't be correct because the "pricing" to the dealership has nothing
> > to do with the zip code. The only thing the zip code affects is the
> > destination charges which are independent of the dealer invoice!
>
> Agreed, it doesn't affect pricing. The zip code is merely for their
> marketing purposes to connect you to dealers in your area.

True.

The Kelly Blue Book is a decent starting point for dealer cost, but
don't assume anything.

KBB will tell you what the dealer list is, not the invoice price, nor
any other incentives.
The manufacturer has preferential pricing based on the volume a dealer
sells, and thats The manufacturer will also offer incentives (rebates,
discounts) that have time limits. The manufacturer may look at their
sales rate and offer a lower than list price. Its complicated. Trust
me I know from my work that often dealers have a hard time doing a
calculation of what the profit is on a vehicle, given all the factors.

The other thing to look out for are admin fees - these are totally at
the discretion of the dealer. Supposedly they are the fees to do the
paperwork and register the vehicle. Some dealers (not many) charge
zero, other may charge hundreds of dollars.

James

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 4:04 pm
From: MAS

On 6/17/2010 2:33 PM, James wrote:
> The other thing to look out for are admin fees - these are totally at
> the discretion of the dealer. Supposedly they are the fees to do the
> paperwork and register the vehicle. Some dealers (not many) charge
> zero, other may charge hundreds of dollars.
>
> James

These are sometimes negotiable - it never hurts to ask and, depending on
how bad the salesman is trying to meet his quota, you might be
pleasantly surprised.

Marsha

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Car Rental Question-Help
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aeefc75f26d7709a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 2:28 pm
From: George

On 6/15/2010 6:27 PM, h wrote:
> "George"<george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hv8rur$l7u$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 6/15/2010 11:04 AM, h wrote:
>>> "George"<george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:hv7usr$abf$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> On 6/14/2010 7:28 PM, h wrote:
>>>>> "George"<george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hv6147$6iu$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> On 6/14/2010 11:08 AM, h wrote:
>>>>>>> "Mark Ratner"<RidgemontRat77884@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:a8fdf3dc-3dbd-4dc4-989b-f90fb14c731d@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't own an automobile but will be renting a car soon for a trip.
>>>>>>>> The fact that I don't own a car means that I don't have car
>>>>>>>> insurance,
>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I looked at car rates through priceline, and I see that Priceline
>>>>>>>> offers $11 a day for collision coverage. Should I get this? Would
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> be all the insurance I'd need in my case?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or am I better off getting the insurance that the rental company
>>>>>>>> offers?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do I need both collision and liability coverage?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You don't need any. Insurance is on a vehicle, not a driver. The
>>>>>>> rental
>>>>>>> company has insurance on their vehicles, so you're covered. You don't
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to buy their extra coverage, either. You're all set with just the
>>>>>>> rental
>>>>>>> agreement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Auto insurance is on a driver not the vehicle. Ever wonder why they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> interested in your driving record, age and who else might drive the
>>>>>> car?
>>>>>> Additional coverage such as comprehensive is on the vehicle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong. You need a policy for EVERY car you own, not just one policy on
>>>>> the
>>>>> driver. The car is insured, not the driver. Hell, my grandmother had
>>>>> car
>>>>> insurance for 10 years after she gave up her driver's license. She kept
>>>>> the
>>>>> car for her home health aide to use to take her to doctors' appts.,
>>>>> shopping, etc. And the insurance was in her name as the owner of the
>>>>> car,
>>>>> not the aide's name (the driver.) They care about the primary driver's
>>>>> record because that's a good prediction of how likely the car is to get
>>>>> damaged, stolen, etc. At least that's the way it is in NY.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> No, if you have multiple vehicles you still have only one policy on the
>>>> driver (owner) and listed drivers whether by name or class.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not in NY. I had to have one policy for my car and one for my van. The
>>> CAR
>>> is insured in NY, not the driver. By your explanation, since I own the
>>> car
>>> the DH drives, he wouldn't have to have insurance on it since, I already
>>> have insurance on my car. Insurance is not on the driver, it's on the
>>> car.
>>> At least it is here.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I am confused. You state you own the car your husband drives and he has
>> insurance on it. Doesn't that mean he is insured and not the vehicle?
>>
> Nope. I own the vehicle but I DO NOT INSURE IT. He does. I could insure it,
> sure, but since my mother gave it to me (was my dad's, but he died) and I've
> never needed it, DH decided he wanted it, so he uses it. Therefore, he
> insures it. Otherwise, I'd have 3 insurance policies (car, van, DH's car)
> instead of just two. I don't mean to argue, but here in NY, insurance is on
> CARS, not DRIVERS. Sorry, but that's how it is here.

Honestly, I still don't see how an inanimate object can have liability
insurance. Your states website explains that the driver needs liability
insurance and reads pretty much the same as the requirement for PA:

"# How much insurance must I carry?
# Ans: New York State law requires that motorists carry a minimum amount
of liability insurance of $25,000 for bodily injury to one person,
$50,000 for bodily injury to all persons, and $10,000 for property
damage in any one accident. Mandatory "no-fault" coverage of $50,000 is
also required. Many motorists carry higher liability limits and
additional personal injury protection beyond these minimum benefits
required by law. The law also requires all auto insurance policies to
provide uninsured motorists coverage (for bodily injury), subject to the
same minimums. In addition, SUM (Supplementary Uninsured/Underinsured
Motorists) coverage can also be purchased, in amounts up to the bodily
injury liability limits of an insured's own policy. An insurer must
offer SUM limits of $250,000 per person per accident and $500,000 per
accident ($250,000/$500,000) if a person has bodily injury liability
limits of that amount or higher. Insurers may offer higher SUM limits if
they wish.
"
>
> The OP "might" need insurance, but the way things work in NY, if you rent a
> car, the car rental place has ALREADY COVERED basic insurance so you don't
> have to buy extra. Other states' laws may vary.
>
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 2:29 pm
From: George

On 6/15/2010 8:11 PM, h wrote:
> "Vic Smith"<thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:f32g1694nvadgi2002odaha5hgmu984kk2@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:27:26 -0400, "h"<tmclone@searchmachine.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Nope. I own the vehicle but I DO NOT INSURE IT. He does. I could insure
>>> it,
>>> sure, but since my mother gave it to me (was my dad's, but he died) and
>>> I've
>>> never needed it, DH decided he wanted it, so he uses it. Therefore, he
>>> insures it. Otherwise, I'd have 3 insurance policies (car, van, DH's car)
>>> instead of just two. I don't mean to argue, but here in NY, insurance is
>>> on
>>> CARS, not DRIVERS. Sorry, but that's how it is here.
>>>
>>
>> Here in Illinois driver age and driving record comes into play.
>> Zip code and sex too.
>> Assuming the same car and the same address an 18 year old driver in NY
>> with many speeding tickets on his record pays the same insurance
>> premium as a 35 year old woman with no violations?
> Nope. They insure each car based on the primary driver/owner(if relevant).

This is right from your states web site:

"# Why are auto insurance rates higher for younger drivers?
# Ans: Insurance rates are based on the average experience of a group of
persons with similar characteristics (classification). Young drivers
historically have had poorer loss experience (both in the frequency of
accidents and the cost of those accidents) than older drivers. By
charging young drivers higher rates, those drivers pay their fair share
of insurance costs and older drivers are not asked to subsidize them. In
addition, rates are generally higher for males because, consistently,
female drivers incur fewer and/or less severe claims than males."
http://www.ins.state.ny.us/faqs/faqs_auto.htm

> They want to know who will be the primary driver, and that's how they insure
> the car. If you have a lot of tickets the same car will cost you a LOT more
> to insure than it costs me (no tickets of any kind ever, 52 year old female
> home owner) and I pay about $495/year for each of my vehicles. No collision,
> but since I've never had an accident that was my fault in over 30 years of
> driving (rear-ended while stopped at a traffic light once) I've had it,
> since I only buy used cars for $5k or less. No-fault in NY pays whether
> you're the idiot or not, which bugs me, since I'm sure it costs safe drivers
> more money than it does at-fault drivers.
>
>

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 2:31 pm
From: George

On 6/15/2010 9:04 PM, Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article<hv6147$6iu$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> George<george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 6/14/2010 11:08 AM, h wrote:
>>> "Mark Ratner"<RidgemontRat77884@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:a8fdf3dc-3dbd-4dc4-989b-f90fb14c731d@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> I don't own an automobile but will be renting a car soon for a trip.
>>>> The fact that I don't own a car means that I don't have car insurance,
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> I looked at car rates through priceline, and I see that Priceline
>>>> offers $11 a day for collision coverage. Should I get this? Would that
>>>> be all the insurance I'd need in my case?
>>>>
>>>> Or am I better off getting the insurance that the rental company
>>>> offers?
>>>>
>>>> Do I need both collision and liability coverage?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> You don't need any. Insurance is on a vehicle, not a driver. The rental
>>> company has insurance on their vehicles, so you're covered. You don't have
>>> to buy their extra coverage, either. You're all set with just the rental
>>> agreement.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Auto insurance is on a driver not the vehicle. Ever wonder why they are
>> so interested in your driving record, age and who else might drive the
>> car? Additional coverage such as comprehensive is on the vehicle.
>>
>> http://www.insure.com/car-insurance/non-owners-policy.html
>>
>> And the OP doesn't have to buy the collision coverage but like all
>> insurance they need to know if they can afford to pay out of pocket. If
>> they damage the car they would be liable for the damage plus loss of use.
>
> And if the OP causes physical damage to anyone, including his or her
> passengers, he could be wiped out financially without liability
> insurance.

Sure and a big consideration is that lots of folks just go with the
state minimum requirement which in PA was probably set in 1950. Times
have changed a little since then.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 2:37 pm
From: George

On 6/16/2010 8:24 AM, h wrote:
> "Clincher"<x@x.x> wrote in message
> news:cfSdnVY3nLaB8IXRnZ2dnUVZ_vadnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>>
>> "Mark Ratner"<RidgemontRat77884@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:a8fdf3dc-3dbd-4dc4-989b-f90fb14c731d@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> I don't own an automobile but will be renting a car soon for a trip.
>>> The fact that I don't own a car means that I don't have car insurance,
>>> either.
>>>
>>> I looked at car rates through priceline, and I see that Priceline
>>> offers $11 a day for collision coverage. Should I get this? Would that
>>> be all the insurance I'd need in my case?
>>>
>>> Or am I better off getting the insurance that the rental company
>>> offers?
>>>
>>> Do I need both collision and liability coverage?
>>
>> You need liability.
>>
>> If you cause an accident that sends a bus full of pro football players off
>> a cliff, you'll also be on the hook for replacing the several hundred
>> million dollars of earning potential you just destroyed. Collison coverage
>> won't help you there. Depending on what state you're in, there are also
>> financial responsibility laws that make it illegal to drive if you don't
>> have $50,000 (or some other big number) on tap to pay for other guy's
>> losses in a timely fashion. That's where your need for liability insurance
>> comes in as it's the only feasible way for most drivers to comply with
>> this requirement.
>>
>> You may not "need" collision if you're rich enough to pay for the rental
>> car and the loss of use without going into hock. Of course, the rental
>> company is free to refuse to rent to you if you don't have proof of
>> collision coverage and arent' willing to buy their CDW.
>>
>>
> Again, the car rental company ALREADY has liability insurance in place or
> they wouldn't be able to rent the car. You're covered because the car is
> covered. You don't even need to buy the "extra" insurance they offer to be
> covered. At least that's how it is in NY.
>
>
But in that case a renter would be covered for the statutory minimum. It
doesn't take much more than a trivial accident to blow past $50k.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Removing a polish smell
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/412e284f30c2d434?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 9:53 pm
From: "Steve B"

"jkm1" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:huiinv$k67$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently
> purchased one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
> unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we
> suspect it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces
> to see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something
> that might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.

In a dry warm place, that will not get wet, like a garage, open all the
windows and let it get warm for a couple of days. If you live in a sunny
clime, put it outdoors with the windows down for a couple of days, raising
the windows at night, and locking it, of course. The combination of raised
heat, UV rays, and ventilation should kill a very high % of it. If it does
not, have the child tested for hypersensitivity to some things, as if he is
still sensitive after treatment of the car, he/she/it is hypersensitive.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need new cordless drill/scredriver
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/048ce5d88bcc4afa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 10:21 pm
From: Jeff Thies

I'm wanting a new cordless drill/screwdriver for routine medium duty
tasks (mostly screwdriver). My B&D has bought the farm, actually my
recent experiences with B&D have not been good. Not good at all!

How is Skill doing, this looks like a nice little tool:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_328782-353-2364-02_0_?productId=3193159&Ntt=cordless%20drill&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?Ntk=i_products$rpp=15$No=15$Ntt=cordless%20drill$identifier=

Hitachi still good?:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_306200-67702-DS10DFL_0_?productId=3056413&Ntt=cordless%20drill&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=cordless%20drill$y=8$x=34

Something else?

I'd like something that's not too expensive, but I can throw some
chump change at it. Stuff you have to keep replacing is never a good
value, and I'm about done with NiCads also. I'm starting to feel the
same way about whatever Home Depot sells. The chances of it being a
lemon are high.

Jeff

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8ddf4522c3a11edd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 17 2010 11:37 pm
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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 23 new messages in 8 topics - digest