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Today's topics:
* What is your water usage? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bd562b37685d1e02?hl=en
* DIY liquid chlorinator - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/843d8a7be9f91d01?hl=en
* cell phone plan - pay as you go - daily access fee - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5bb1a0780187549d?hl=en
* cheap shoes sneakers boots WWW.cheapforwholesale.COM discount jeans t-shirts
jacket purse - 1 messages, 1 author
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* china wholesale cheap puma prada gucci nike trainers jordan air max 97 hogan
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* Don't Buy "Hormel REAL Bacon Bits" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/96d82509a818239a?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is your water usage?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bd562b37685d1e02?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 2:55 pm
From: Paul M. Eldridge
On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:14:17 -0500, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> My understanding is that automatic dishwashers use less water than
>what most people use hand washing dishes.
>
> Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I've heard that as well and it's most likely true, but that's because
most people are not overly concerned by the amount of water they use.
My dishwasher uses 12 to 14 litres per load (~ 3.5 U.S. gallons).
Many newer dishwashers consume twice this amount and with older units
you can probably double that again. By recycling my rinse water for
other purposes, I can do a full load by hand using less than 5 litres.
I also heat my dish water in an electric kettle because if I drew hot
water from the tap, I could easily waste that much or more waiting for
it to get hot. And during the winter months, the heat from this water
can be used to help warm my home before it is released down the drain;
not so with the waste water from my dishwasher.
Cheers,
Paul
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 4:04 pm
From: Jeff
Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:14:17 -0500, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that automatic dishwashers use less water than
>> what most people use hand washing dishes.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I've heard that as well and it's most likely true, but that's because
> most people are not overly concerned by the amount of water they use.
> My dishwasher uses 12 to 14 litres per load (~ 3.5 U.S. gallons).
> Many newer dishwashers consume twice this amount and with older units
> you can probably double that again. By recycling my rinse water for
> other purposes, I can do a full load by hand using less than 5 litres.
Hi Paul,
That's pretty frugal. But even using a dishwasher every night isn't
the major reason for high water use. After all 3.5 gallons * 30 days is
only 105 gallons. With that said, I'm a hand washer.
>
> I also heat my dish water in an electric kettle because if I drew hot
> water from the tap, I could easily waste that much or more waiting for
> it to get hot. And during the winter months, the heat from this water
> can be used to help warm my home before it is released down the drain;
> not so with the waste water from my dishwasher.
I don't do that. I did insulate my hot water lines and that makes a nice
difference.
Curiously, I have taken to setting my colander over a pot to reclaim
the boiling water. Letting that cool in the sink recovers several
hundred BTUs.
I've recently seen a waste water recycling tank that reuses shower
water for flushing toilets (filters through wool). Since those are
probably the two highest water usages for those who xeriscape and don't
have a pool I think that's a great idea. Too bad it was so expensive.
Jeff
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 10:17 pm
From: Paul M. Eldridge
On Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:04:18 -0500, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>I don't do that. I did insulate my hot water lines and that makes a nice
>difference.
Hi Jeff,
I've insulated our hot water pipes as well, but if you seldom draw hot
water from the kitchen tap, it cools to the point where it must be
discarded anyway.
I prewash our dishes in one to two litres of cold water using a
stainless steel mixing bowl (more sanitary than plastic). As I'm
doing this, I heat another two litres in the small electric kettle for
the main wash (total electrical consumption: about 0.1 kWh). As with
the prewash, this water is discarded and the mixing bowl is given a
quick wipe. I then rise the dishes using short bursts of cold tap
water, all of which is collected in the mixing bowl for subsequent
reuse elsewhere. Most days, four or five litres is all that's
required to get the job done.
Although most folks will happily let the dishwasher do the work, I
prefer washing dishes by hand -- it's my quiet time when I get to
relax and meditate in peace. About the only time I use the dishwasher
is when we're entertaining and want to spend that time with our
guests.
> Curiously, I have taken to setting my colander over a pot to reclaim
>the boiling water. Letting that cool in the sink recovers several
>hundred BTUs.
>
> I've recently seen a waste water recycling tank that reuses shower
>water for flushing toilets (filters through wool). Since those are
>probably the two highest water usages for those who xeriscape and don't
>have a pool I think that's a great idea. Too bad it was so expensive.
I considered adding a heat recovery device to our shower drain but
since there's only two of us and we both shower along the same lines
as we do dishes, I couldn't justify the expense. Our low flow show
head has an on/off control that allows us to turn off the water as we
soap up, so a typical shower might consume 20 to 25 litres of hot
water, if that. That's about 1 kWh of heat demand and if a recovery
device could salvage 40 per cent of that, our savings would be less
than $3.00 a month. In this case, it made more sense to spend the
money on other home improvements that would provide us with far
greater return on our investment.
Cheers,
Paul
==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY liquid chlorinator
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/843d8a7be9f91d01?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 3:21 pm
From: Anthony
On Feb 8, 7:18 am, Frank <frankdotlogullo@comcastperiodnet> wrote:
> Anthony wrote:
> > I live in Texas where septic systems are pretty well governed. They
> > require that the aerator systems be adequately chlorinated... which I
> > am grateful I don't have to smell my neighbors discharge. However, I
> > am becoming annoyed at spending $180+ every year for chlorine tablets
> > when I understandliquidbleach dispensers are also allowed by law.
> > However, these dispensers typically run $300 and look like PVC pipes I
> > could get from my local home supply stores. I want to try and do it
> > myself and save the $300 equipment/installation cost and start using
> > household bleach.
>
> > Question 1) Can anyone point me to plans how to build my own?
> > Question 2) From my research, it appears ~1 gallon/month is the
> > typical bleach usage. Does this sound correct to people who already
> > use/know about bleach dispensers?
> > Question 3) Absent any plans, and believing the usage is ~1 gallon/
> > month, I believe I could cap a PVC pipe to hold some bleach and
> > integrate an IV drip dispenser. According to my math (which I won't
> > go into here unless requested), I figure I can set the IV drip on a 60
> > drop/ml to 1 drop every 11.4 seconds to dispense ~1 gallon of bleach/
> > month. By placing this dispenser between my two tanks (where I
> > currently drop the chlorine tablets) I expect I would achieve
> > approximately the same mixing effect as I do with tablets. The end
> > effect of this is for <$20 I could build my dispenser and start using
> > household bleach saving an additional $150+ each year.
>
> > Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?
>
> > Thanks in advance!
>
> Having worked as a chemist in industry, I can tell you that continuous
> processes require continuous monitoring. I would prefer a system that
> did not always need my attention.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Agreed. Right now I'm dropping chlorine tablets in nearly every
weekend. Talk about your systems that need attention! :-(
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 3:52 pm
From: "Li"
Not knowing how your existing system is set-up, your main problem will be to
regulate the chlorine to the flow. Generally with tablets, the higher the
flow, the faster they dissolve. If your system does not batch discharge, you
will want to regulate the chlorine so that more (or rather faster drop rate)
is injected during peak flow periods in order to achieve proper disinfection
(and odor control). You want to keep the chlorine at about 1.0 PPM to 4.0
PPM to achieve disinfection (closer to 1.0 PPM is better). You need to base
your usage (volume required) calculation on flow and usage as opposed to an
average of 1 gallon/month.
The other problem you have to deal with is that liquid chlorine injection
systems do have a tendancy to clog under certain circumstances.
You will still have to conduct maintainence of the system on a regular
basis.
Don't know any plans offhand but try googling it might just work.
"Anthony" <anthonymorris@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36c229eb-c459-4e3f-9c93-f66f70dd4635@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>I live in Texas where septic systems are pretty well governed. They
> require that the aerator systems be adequately chlorinated... which I
> am grateful I don't have to smell my neighbors discharge. However, I
> am becoming annoyed at spending $180+ every year for chlorine tablets
> when I understand liquid bleach dispensers are also allowed by law.
> However, these dispensers typically run $300 and look like PVC pipes I
> could get from my local home supply stores. I want to try and do it
> myself and save the $300 equipment/installation cost and start using
> household bleach.
>
> Question 1) Can anyone point me to plans how to build my own?
> Question 2) From my research, it appears ~1 gallon/month is the
> typical bleach usage. Does this sound correct to people who already
> use/know about bleach dispensers?
> Question 3) Absent any plans, and believing the usage is ~1 gallon/
> month, I believe I could cap a PVC pipe to hold some bleach and
> integrate an IV drip dispenser. According to my math (which I won't
> go into here unless requested), I figure I can set the IV drip on a 60
> drop/ml to 1 drop every 11.4 seconds to dispense ~1 gallon of bleach/
> month. By placing this dispenser between my two tanks (where I
> currently drop the chlorine tablets) I expect I would achieve
> approximately the same mixing effect as I do with tablets. The end
> effect of this is for <$20 I could build my dispenser and start using
> household bleach saving an additional $150+ each year.
>
> Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?
>
> Thanks in advance!
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 4:08 pm
From: Richard J Kinch
Anthony writes:
> Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?
There is no way to meter liquid chlorinator without regular attention and
maintenance.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 4:30 pm
From: Bubba
On Fri, 8 Feb 2008 00:28:15 -0800 (PST), Anthony
<anthonymorris@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I live in Texas where septic systems are pretty well governed. They
>require that the aerator systems be adequately chlorinated... which I
>am grateful I don't have to smell my neighbors discharge. However, I
>am becoming annoyed at spending $180+ every year for chlorine tablets
>when I understand liquid bleach dispensers are also allowed by law.
>However, these dispensers typically run $300 and look like PVC pipes I
>could get from my local home supply stores. I want to try and do it
>myself and save the $300 equipment/installation cost and start using
>household bleach.
>
Just so you understand................Household bleach is 1/2 the
concentration of liquid pool shock or tablets. Thus you will need
twice the amount of liquid household bleach to achieve the same as
what your tablets are doing.
Bubba
>Question 1) Can anyone point me to plans how to build my own?
>Question 2) From my research, it appears ~1 gallon/month is the
>typical bleach usage. Does this sound correct to people who already
>use/know about bleach dispensers?
>Question 3) Absent any plans, and believing the usage is ~1 gallon/
>month, I believe I could cap a PVC pipe to hold some bleach and
>integrate an IV drip dispenser. According to my math (which I won't
>go into here unless requested), I figure I can set the IV drip on a 60
>drop/ml to 1 drop every 11.4 seconds to dispense ~1 gallon of bleach/
>month. By placing this dispenser between my two tanks (where I
>currently drop the chlorine tablets) I expect I would achieve
>approximately the same mixing effect as I do with tablets. The end
>effect of this is for <$20 I could build my dispenser and start using
>household bleach saving an additional $150+ each year.
>
>Thoughts/Corrections/Answers?
>
>Thanks in advance!
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 5:46 pm
From: "Lou"
"Anthony" <anthonymorris@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36c229eb-c459-4e3f-9c93-f66f70dd4635@p69g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> I live in Texas where septic systems are pretty well governed. They
> require that the aerator systems be adequately chlorinated... which I
> am grateful I don't have to smell my neighbors discharge. However, I
> am becoming annoyed at spending $180+ every year for chlorine tablets
> when I understand liquid bleach dispensers are also allowed by law.
> However, these dispensers typically run $300 and look like PVC pipes I
> could get from my local home supply stores. I want to try and do it
> myself and save the $300 equipment/installation cost and start using
> household bleach.
Could be much worse, around here being connected to the public sewer system
costs twice what you're paying for tablets, maybe more.
> Question 1) Can anyone point me to plans how to build my own?
> Question 2) From my research, it appears ~1 gallon/month is the
> typical bleach usage. Does this sound correct to people who already
> use/know about bleach dispensers?
> Question 3) Absent any plans, and believing the usage is ~1 gallon/
> month, I believe I could cap a PVC pipe to hold some bleach and
> integrate an IV drip dispenser. According to my math (which I won't
> go into here unless requested), I figure I can set the IV drip on a 60
> drop/ml to 1 drop every 11.4 seconds to dispense ~1 gallon of bleach/
> month. By placing this dispenser between my two tanks (where I
> currently drop the chlorine tablets) I expect I would achieve
> approximately the same mixing effect as I do with tablets. The end
> effect of this is for <$20 I could build my dispenser and start using
> household bleach saving an additional $150+ each year.
I don't have any kind of picture of what you're driving at, but a few
questions pop to mind.
Is this stuff located outside? What do you do about freezing? And will a
gallon of bleach in this thing hold onto the chlorine or will the chlorine
evaporate off, leaving you carefully dripping water into your system. And
lastly, since you say septic systems are pretty well governed, what are the
legal requirements? Would doing something like this mean you are installing
a proprietary treatment system that needs to be tested and licensed? Will
something like this require you to have a maintenance contract, or get
training from a licensed installer?
I thought there were exacting requirements for what the chlorine does -
something like kill 99% of bacteria in the effluent within a stated period
of time. It's a bit of a stretch to think that a drop of bleach every 11
seconds will do that.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: cell phone plan - pay as you go - daily access fee
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5bb1a0780187549d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 5:05 pm
From: default
On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:04:12 -0800, mehlREMOVETHIS@cyvest.com wrote:
> Hello --
>
> My AT&T plan ($10 special at Radio Shack) charges $1/day "only on days
> you use your phone"; airtime costs $0.10/min.
>
> Can anyone recommend a pay as you go plan that does not have a cost/
> day access fee?
> Or, is such a fee pretty typical for this type of service?
>
Your phone may be locked to AT&T, limiting your choices if you don't want
to buy another one.
AT&T has another pre-paid plan: a simple $.25/min with no "access"
fee or other gimmicks. (Pre-paid airtime has an expiration date, as yours
probably does too, but can roll over when you re-up.) You may be able to
switch plans: call AT&T and ask.
-- Joel
==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fe1a646870334210?hl=en
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TOPIC: Don't Buy "Hormel REAL Bacon Bits"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/96d82509a818239a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 8 2008 10:11 pm
From: Dave
I don't eat a lot of meat, but my family does. But I do remember from
my meat-eating days just how good bacon can taste. I used to love the
taste of crispy, thick bacon slices, particularly the Danish kind
(since that is my heritage).
Recently, we bought a large bag of Hormel "Real Bacon Bits" at Sam's
Club. The packaged promised the "delicious taste of real, fresh
premium bacon" and was a good buy for a year's supply (the way it
usually goes when you buy something at one of those club stores like
Sam's or Costco.)
It was when I looked a little closer that I became concerned about
what my family had been adding to their salad and baked potatoes. On
the front of the bag I found an interesting slogan, "Made from Picnic
Bacon" which caught my curiosity. I don't recall ever hearing that
term before, have you? "Picnic Bacon" sounds so nice -- it sounds like
a summer outing on a beautiful day, eating a nice BLT sandwich under
the trees and watching the ants carry away half of the meal.
Putting aside my winter thoughts of a pleasant picnic, I looked into
what this meant. It turns out that "Picnic Bacon" is not a pretty
thing. It may have a nice sounding name, but it is really not a meat
you should consume. Picnic Bacon turns out to be the most undesirable
parts of the pig -- seriously, you don't want to know what parts --
which has been "fabricated" to approach the appearance of bacon. It is
just barely considered something fit for human consumption, and it
wouldn't be eaten, not by you, me or anyone else, if it didn't have
this pleasant little name and the "fabricated bacon" look.
Shame on you Hormel. I wonder how many other surprises there are in
the consumer packaged food business? Got any other good ones?
Dave
Full text article above extracted from http://shamvswham.blogspot.com/
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