Frugal Living: Feb 6, 2008

Wednesday, February 6, 2008

24 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BEST LCD OR PLASMA 42" TV SET ON MARKET???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3cb34b276c0ce20e?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 12:40 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 05:39:41 -0500, Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net>
wrote:

>My Scientific Atlanta HD DVD box from Comcast has an HDMI connector;
>however, my HD TV does not, so I use its component video connectors.
>Works fine for TV viewing and recording.

Please explain how you record HD signal from component (not composite
or S-video) outputs in full resolution.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 5:22 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article <47a96826$0$30720$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>> "They certainly don't let you copy it to an external device *which
>> has non-emphemeral storage*."

> Perfectly clear, but totally wrong.

OK, I'll bite: how do I get encrypted QAM into a format I
can control (has no DRM) without going through an analog gap?
Set-top box with Firewire?

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is your water usage?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bd562b37685d1e02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 12:47 pm
From: Paul M. Eldridge

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:58:27 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>I just had a chance to do some comparisons, and I'm stunned how much
>less water we are using in our manufactured home in Alabama than we
>were in our old home in south Florida. There are a number of factors
>involved, including climate, but the variations in useage bear
>examining. [...]

Congrats, Harry! With our most recent statement in hand, and looking
at just this past year, we used a total of eleven cubic metres over an
86 day period ending December 20th; that works out to be 128 litres
per day or about 34 U.S. gallons/day for a two person household. Our
highest recorded usage was for the billing cycle ending August 25th --
over the course of those 83 days, we used an average of 181 litres per
day or 48 U.S. gallons. Our increased consumption can be largely
attributed to watering the garden and overnight guests. Our lowest
consumption was the 85 day stretch ending March 28th, when we used
just 82 litres per day (22 U.S. gallons/day).

Low-flow shower heads, 6 litre flush toilets, an energy and water
efficient BOSCH dishwasher and a front load washer take much of the
credit, but we're also both pretty frugal by nature so, for example,
the five litres drawn off before each shower waiting for the water to
get hot is collected in a watering can and used to flush toilets. I
also do most of our dishes by hand and the rinse water is likewise
captured and recycled for flushing.

We use so little water the city has inspected our meter twice and
replaced it once, and the meter reader has been sent back a couple
times to confirm readings. I confess part of the satisfaction of
using so little water is messing with their heads. ;-)

Cheers,
Paul

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 2:26 pm
From: "John Weiss"

<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote...
>
> We were hooked to city water and tried to be prudent, but not
> obsessive about our water use. A low usage month was measured at
> 33000 gallons, with a couple months over a five year period close to 3
> times that figure.
>
> At our new home, we have a high-efficiency clothes washer, dishwasher,
> 1.6gpf toilets, spa tub, and we shower regularly using a low-flow
> showerhead (but less than in Florida where we were sweating all the
> time). Water is at about 45PSI through the regulator. We have an
> 1100 gal storage cistern, which gets filled about 3 times a month.
>
> 3300 gallons compared to 33000 gallons is a tenfold difference with no
> pain,

I just looked at mine, and it averages 3938 gal/mo for the year. Low is 2625 in
Feb-Mar, and high is 6750 in Aug-Sep (when our neighbor waters the maple trees
is his "nursery annex" in our yard). So, the 2 of us alone use less than 100
gal/day -- still more than I would have guessed, until I recall how long it
takes my wife to shower... :-)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 4:10 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 6, 12:58 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I just had a chance to do some comparisons, and I'm stunned how much
> less water we are using in our manufactured home in Alabama than we
> were in our old home in south Florida. There are a number of factors
> involved, including climate, but the variations in useage bear
> examining.
>
> If you want to compare from your own water bills, a hundred cubic feet
> of water is 750 gallons.
>
> In the old home, we had a regular big old top load clothes washer,
> washed some dishes by hand until the last few months there, had
> regular showerheads, had the old style toilets that were flushed
> whenever they were used, watered plants in the winter, had to add
> water to the pool every few months, and during the summer only,
> minimally used the roof sprinkler to extend the life of the roof (low
> flow setting, total of about 40 min of watering a day. Water pressure
> was about 60 psi.
>
> We were hooked to city water and tried to be prudent, but not
> obsessive about our water use. A low usage month was measured at
> 33000 gallons, with a couple months over a five year period close to 3
> times that figure. Looking back, I'm astounded how much water we
> used, or supposedly used, especially since we had our own irrigation
> well for watering the lawn, which isn't included in those figures.
>
> When we lived in the camper this past summer, our well could only
> produce 25 gal/day and we used less than 750 gal/mo. The toilet was a
> camper toilet, which might use a pint of water per flush, showers were
> limited to about five minutes or less, and we had no clothes washer,
> dishwasher, pool, or roof sprinkler. We did water plants, but there
> weren't as many to water.
>
> At our new home, we have a high-efficiency clothes washer, dishwasher,
> 1.6gpf toilets, spa tub, and we shower regularly using a low-flow
> showerhead (but less than in Florida where we were sweating all the
> time). Water is at about 45PSI through the regulator. We have an
> 1100 gal storage cistern, which gets filled about 3 times a month.
>
> 3300 gallons compared to 33000 gallons is a tenfold difference with no
> pain, and the camper use of 750 gallons per month is 1/4 of that
> amount. The differences are amazing, and I've become convinced that
> the water saving devices are all they claim to be. Even though our
> water here is essentially free, I'm tickled, since the septic system
> will be that much less loaded and the costs of heating water will be
> reduced.

I know what you mean.

With a family of four, showers, hand dish washing, flushing of toilets
when necessary...we see a typical usage of 500-600 gals/month....with
no real sacrifice of quality of life.

While that may seem low, we manage our lives so if we lose our water
supply the impact of replacing it will be minimal.

If you have ever had to haul water on a long period basis you learn
quickly to conserve and reuse.

Our other utilities bills are also much smaller than our neighbors'
similar bills...being fugal is a lifestyle choice.

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Your vacation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/83ec6afd854d1b73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 12:46 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

eterica <eterica@altermedica.net> wrote

> Your vacation

> Your vacation in Croatia.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

> Please visit us on http://www.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Bugger off. No please, thats an order.

> Search your Croatian destination and travel.

> If you know something interesting about Croatia, write & share with us.

They like killing people, particularly serbs and moslems.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why Traditional SPAM is not desired on the newgroup
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/501e63bdc45b7cb2?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 1:28 pm
From: clams_casino

rox wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:nrlqj.44297$m6.34873@newsfe18.lga...
>
>
>>Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Corporate downsizing is here to stay.
>>>
>>>
>>Does abuse@cogentco.com, abuse@wideopenwest.com & abuse@giganews.com agree
>>with the way you continually spam this newsgroup?
>>
>>
>
>From the amount of crap I see--giganews could not care less. Nor, I bet,
>can those others mentioned above.
>
>
>
>
The amusing part about giganews is that they reject all complaints sent
to abuse@gignews.com as spam (they don't accept spam)..

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 1:39 pm
From: "rox"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:UDpqj.21227$OC1.7784@newsfe20.lga...
> rox wrote:
>
>>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>>news:nrlqj.44297$m6.34873@newsfe18.lga...
>>
>>>Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Corporate downsizing is here to stay.
>>>>
>>>Does abuse@cogentco.com, abuse@wideopenwest.com & abuse@giganews.com
>>>agree with the way you continually spam this newsgroup?
>>>
>>
>>From the amount of crap I see--giganews could not care less. Nor, I
>>bet, can those others mentioned above.
>>
>>
> The amusing part about giganews is that they reject all complaints sent to
> abuse@gignews.com as spam (they don't accept spam)..

That makes perfect sense. I am now at one with the universe :)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 1:49 pm
From: clams_casino

rox wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:UDpqj.21227$OC1.7784@newsfe20.lga...
>
>
>>rox wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:nrlqj.44297$m6.34873@newsfe18.lga...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Corporate downsizing is here to stay.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Does abuse@cogentco.com, abuse@wideopenwest.com & abuse@giganews.com
>>>>agree with the way you continually spam this newsgroup?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>From the amount of crap I see--giganews could not care less. Nor, I
>>
>>
>>>bet, can those others mentioned above.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>The amusing part about giganews is that they reject all complaints sent to
>>abuse@gignews.com as spam (they don't accept spam)..
>>
>>
>
>That makes perfect sense. I am now at one with the universe :)
>
>
>
>
Just got another complaint rejected by giganews - "Sender address
rejected: We don't accept junk mail"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to get your grocer to carry an item?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d92bd3df49819244?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 1:29 pm
From: The Real Bev

OhioGuy wrote:

> Have you ever been in a similar situation, where your local grocers won't
> carry something you really want? How have you been successful in obtaining
> it? Anyone have any suggestions on how I might proceed?

Ask the manager. Little Debbie Marshmallow Supremes are extremely good
junk food for the price, but very few stores carry them. The manager of
my Ralph's/Kroger ordered a box (what, a couple dozen boxes?) of them.
I bought several and the rest were also sold, apparently. No repeat
order, though. Short attention span...

--
Cheers,
Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"Few skills are so well rewarded as the ability to convince
parasites that they are victims." --Thomas Sowell

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 6:33 pm
From: Charles Quinn

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in news:foci5t$tdb$1@aioe.org:

> http://www.delmonte.com/products/TomatoesList.asp?typeID=16
>
>
> I'm especially looking for the Garlic & Herb, Tomato & Basil, plus
> the 4
> Cheese varieties. About 6 years ago, when I lived in a different
> neighborhood, I stopped in a tiny local grocery store. Inside, I saw
> a variety of cans of Del Monte spaghetti sauces. I had never seen
> this brand before, since I typically went with Hunt's or store brand,
> so I gave them a try. I fell in love especially with the Garlic &
> Herb. The Del Monte brand is sweeter and less salty than Hunt's and
> other brands I've had in the past, and I truly prefer it a lot.
>
> The problem is that the tiny grocery store went out of business, and
> I
> can't find these varieties locally. Wal-Mart carries the basic meat
> and mushroom versions of Del Monte, but I don't like those that much.
> We have Kroger and Meijer grocery chains here in the Dayton, Ohio
> area, but it seems like they only want to carry Ragu, Hunt's, and the
> store brand. I've brought up my requests to carry the Del Monte
> several times, but they never add it.
>
> Have you ever been in a similar situation, where your local grocers
> won't
> carry something you really want? How have you been successful in
> obtaining it? Anyone have any suggestions on how I might proceed?
>
>

Call the manufacturer and ask them if there is a store in your area that
carries the items you desire.

Charles
The significant problems we face cannot be solved
at the same level of thinking we were at when we
created them. Albert Einstein

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 8:05 pm
From: Stan Horwitz

In article <foci5t$tdb$1@aioe.org>, "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

> http://www.delmonte.com/products/TomatoesList.asp?typeID=16
>
>
> I'm especially looking for the Garlic & Herb, Tomato & Basil, plus the 4
> Cheese varieties. About 6 years ago, when I lived in a different
> neighborhood, I stopped in a tiny local grocery store. Inside, I saw a
> variety of cans of Del Monte spaghetti sauces. I had never seen this brand
> before, since I typically went with Hunt's or store brand, so I gave them a
> try. I fell in love especially with the Garlic & Herb. The Del Monte brand
> is sweeter and less salty than Hunt's and other brands I've had in the past,
> and I truly prefer it a lot.
>
> The problem is that the tiny grocery store went out of business, and I
> can't find these varieties locally. Wal-Mart carries the basic meat and
> mushroom versions of Del Monte, but I don't like those that much. We have
> Kroger and Meijer grocery chains here in the Dayton, Ohio area, but it seems
> like they only want to carry Ragu, Hunt's, and the store brand. I've
> brought up my requests to carry the Del Monte several times, but they never
> add it.
>
> Have you ever been in a similar situation, where your local grocers won't
> carry something you really want? How have you been successful in obtaining
> it? Anyone have any suggestions on how I might proceed?

I googled for "Delmonte sauce" and came up with

http://www.shopfoodex.com/pasta-sauce-pasta-sauce-hunts-monte-c-1944_1626
_2061.html?osCsid=9f0eff938c641120393d14676d830169

or just to to http://www.shopfoodex.com/ and look up sauces. The four
cheese variety is there. You might also try contacting this company to
see if they will carry the other Delmonte sauces on your shopping list.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wc value PLUS-V
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3ae51113bd408333?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 2:20 pm
From: dienacameron@yahoo.com

PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM MAKING A COMPLAINT AGAINST Wc value PLUS-V. SO
FAR THEY HAVE TAKEN $159.69 OUT OF MY ACCOUNT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.
MY BANK SAYS THEY CAN ONLY GO BACK AS FAR AS 60 DAYS, WHICH COMES OUT
TO $39.98. Wc value SAYS THEY WILL CANCEL MY " MEMBERSHIP" FOR ME AND
REFUND THE WHOLE AMOUNT BUT IT WILL TAKE 1-2 BILLING CYCLES. WHO AND
WHAT IS THIS COMPANY AND WHY ARE THEY STILL IN BUSINESS??????. I WISH
I HAD THE MONEY TO SUE THESE GUYS.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 2:43 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Feb 6, 5:20 pm, dienacame...@yahoo.com wrote:
> PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM MAKING A COMPLAINT AGAINST Wc value PLUS-V. SO
> FAR THEY HAVE TAKEN $159.69 OUT OF MY ACCOUNT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.
> MY BANK SAYS THEY CAN ONLY GO BACK AS FAR AS 60 DAYS, WHICH COMES OUT
> TO $39.98. Wc value SAYS THEY WILL CANCEL MY " MEMBERSHIP" FOR ME AND
> REFUND THE WHOLE AMOUNT BUT IT WILL TAKE 1-2 BILLING CYCLES. WHO AND
> WHAT IS THIS COMPANY AND WHY ARE THEY STILL IN BUSINESS??????. I WISH
> I HAD THE MONEY TO SUE THESE GUYS.

Those bastards.
When did they bill you for the $159.69? If your bank allows you to go
back 60 days and that amounts to $39.98, does that mean you let it go
almost eight months? DUH.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 5:05 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

1) I wish I had a sausage

2) I wish the sausage was at the end of your nose

3) I WISH YOUR KEYBOARD CAPS LOCK WAS REPAIRED

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

<dienacameron@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0f4048ed-c27c-494c-b718-163b8dbf4546@i72g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM MAKING A COMPLAINT AGAINST Wc value PLUS-V. SO
FAR THEY HAVE TAKEN $159.69 OUT OF MY ACCOUNT WITHOUT MY PERMISSION.
MY BANK SAYS THEY CAN ONLY GO BACK AS FAR AS 60 DAYS, WHICH COMES OUT
TO $39.98. Wc value SAYS THEY WILL CANCEL MY " MEMBERSHIP" FOR ME AND
REFUND THE WHOLE AMOUNT BUT IT WILL TAKE 1-2 BILLING CYCLES. WHO AND
WHAT IS THIS COMPANY AND WHY ARE THEY STILL IN BUSINESS??????. I WISH
I HAD THE MONEY TO SUE THESE GUYS.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: IDT wants to charge me a dollar to send me a bill
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ac164cb61a75e7fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 2:53 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Feb 6, 2:10 pm, Terry <kilow...@charter.net> wrote:
> IDT added a dollar to my three dollar phone bill. It was to send me a
> paper statment.
>
> I asked for a hard copy bill, only because it is a pain in the ass to
> have to log on to the utility company's web site to check my bill.
>
> I would love it if they just sent the statement in an email, but they
> don't do it that way. I have to set up a username and password.
> I pay the bill using direct draft so the only reason I want to see my
> statement is to check the call log. I then just throw the statement
> away.
>
> We are talking about a phone bill not a CIA secret document.
>
> Just sending an email should be enough security just to view the bill.
> I told them I was not going to pay for them to send me a bill. They
> could just cancel my service. They waived the charge, but ignored my
> suggestion just to email it to me.

My utility, DTE, is similarly disadvantaged. They recently encouraged
E-billing. The idea sounded worthwhile to me so I went to sign up.
After going through screen after screen to register, I went to pay my
bill. They expected me to enter the current date! If their programmers
can't figure out how to auto-fill the GD current date, I can't trust
them with my credit information. I told them they will get a stamp and
an envelope from me for the rest of my life.
More recently, they had a power outage. The web site was too busy to
handle any further reporting. However, a simple phone call completed
the report and also provided an estimate of the repair time
Some companies are mere pretenders when it comes to technology.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Homemade Valenitne's Day Gifts
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b982c2d3f8ffaee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 3:53 pm
From: gjensen

Valentine's Day

Go Green this Valentine's Day
http://www.familiesonlinemagazine.com/save-environment/valentine.html
As sweet and touching as flowers and candy are for Valentine's Day
gifts, you don't need to have them in order to give a great gift.
Think naturally, and ...

Have A Little Heart This Valentine's Day
http://www.familiesonlinemagazine.com/teens/valentine-gift.html
In the light of Valentine's Day, take some time to remind yourself how
great you are --- and pick up one of these adorable finds! These are
also fun gifts for a special friend!

Valentine's Day Crafts
http://www.familiesonlinemagazine.com/ValJaki.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today Message :
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/46b316f1def908a3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 5:09 pm
From: nandhiniraj79@gmail.com

Today Message :

Complaining about others is often an admission of one's own
incompetence.

Condemn action, not people.

see and start Quickly new business
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.freewebs.com/business-xx
------------------------------------------------------

you want a money from loan

see and get loan
------------------------------------------------------
http://padmagirl.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 6:12 pm
From: The Real Bev

A stupid spammer wrote:

> Condemn action, not people.

Ridiculous. If you cut off a person's head he doesn't bother you any
more. Very different with actions, which can be repeated essentially
forever.

--
Cheers,
Bev
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
When cryptography is outlawed, only outlaws will
qwertzuio asdfghjk pyxcvbnml -- M. O'Dorney

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can't pay? Just walk away.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5a07413ffe1cd66b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 5:29 pm
From: Snowbound

Hey, Borrower!

Screwed up your mortgage? Made all the wrong choices? You lucky real
estate investor, you STILL made the right choice! Thanks to recent
federal Debt Relief Legislation, by just walking away from your
overpriced speculative loser property and your lender, your credit can
recover faster than you can say "Bankruptcy? What's that?"

Why, in less that two years, you might just be able to qualify for
another fat, unaffordable mortgage! And you thought you lost everything.
Not to worry, even though this legislation benefits real estate
speculators the most, you too can win, win, win albeit at the expense of
your $500,000, 1 bedroom 1 bath bungalow, good economic practice and
national economic health!

Just don't declare bankruptcy, like someone in real financial trouble
might consider. If you declare bankruptcy, like some joker who lost
everything to unforseen disaster or illness, you are putting yourself at
the mercy of courts and banks (who make today's bankruptcy laws). If you
just walk away from a massive mortgage YOU freely chose, you get off
scott free, without any substantial penalty! After all, what
asset-draining cancer or chronic workplace injury could POSSIBLY be
worse than losing a home you couldn't afford in the first place?

Even if you can afford your mortgage payment, this legal "Debt Relief"
may make it smarter to skip out: let's say your white elephant is
depreciating faster than a balloon in a needle factory. Don't wait for
forclosure-- walk away now! The government wrote a special law, just for
YOU! Yay! Just go out the front door, get in your Escalade, and leave
your house (don't worry, mommy and daddy will put you up). Don't look
back, there is only a hard lesson to be learned there. Now stay clean on
your other debt (like your credit cards and your SUV payment), and in
two or three years, any lenders left who haven't gone belly-up will be
breaking down your door to LEND YOU MONEY AGAIN!

Golly gee, thanks Congress! Thanks, Mr. President! You all may be total
fuckheads intent on ruining the country, but you are OUR kinds of
fuckheads! These are the kinds of moments that make you glad we sent all
those soldiers to die in Iraq. This is what it means to be American.

<http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/06/real_estate/walking_away/index.htm?secti
on=money_topstories>

<http://tinyurl.com/2jht8x>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 6:11 pm
From: invalid@notreal.none (Beachcomber)

>Screwed up your mortgage? Made all the wrong choices? You lucky real
>estate investor, you STILL made the right choice! Thanks to recent
>federal Debt Relief Legislation, by just walking away from your
>overpriced speculative loser property and your lender, your credit can
>recover faster than you can say "Bankruptcy? What's that?"

Personally I think its wrong that Americans allow private companies
(the credit reporting agencies) keep secret files on citizens that
determine whether they are "credit worthy or not" and largely
determine what they will pay in interest charges for credit cards,
mortgages, etc.

What if you walked into a grocery store that charged high or low
prices for the same item dependant upon the the race or gender of the
person making the purchase? Nobody would put up with that...

The credit issuing companies are perfectly right in denying each
applicant credit or not, but if credit is granted... Everyone should
pay whatever market rate is in effect at the time.

It makes no sense to declare someone a deadbeat and then say "for you,
you get a 9%, 10%, or 15% mortgage when every else is paying 5 1/2%
or, we will start you at a low rate for a year, but after that, you
are going to pay bonzo big bucks at twice or three times the market
rate.

Beachcomber

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 7:30 pm
From: timeOday

Beachcomber wrote:

> Personally I think its wrong that Americans allow private companies
> (the credit reporting agencies) keep secret files on citizens that
> determine whether they are "credit worthy or not" and largely
> determine what they will pay in interest charges for credit cards,
> mortgages, etc.

What's really ridiculous is that the credit reporting agencies receive a
special exemption from liability for the damages caused by reporting
false information about you. Their only obligation is to remove the
information once *you* prove them wrong. That's right, maintaining the
accuracy of their highly profitable database is somehow *your* job.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 7:47 pm
From: jik@kamens.brookline.ma.us (Jonathan Kamens)

invalid@notreal.none (Beachcomber) writes:
>>Screwed up your mortgage? Made all the wrong choices? You lucky real
>>estate investor, you STILL made the right choice! Thanks to recent
>>federal Debt Relief Legislation, by just walking away from your
>>overpriced speculative loser property and your lender, your credit can
>>recover faster than you can say "Bankruptcy? What's that?"
>
>Personally I think its wrong that Americans allow private companies
>(the credit reporting agencies) keep secret files

Secret? You can pay these agencies to get a complete copy of your
credit report any time you want. All of them are legally obligated by
Federal law to give you a free copy every year, and there are various
situations in which they would be legally obligated to give you a copy
more frequently than that. Not only will they give you a complete
copy of your credit report, they'll also, for little and often no
money, tell you what your FICO score is and even tell you specifically
what you can do to improve it.

>on citizens that
>determine whether they are "credit worthy or not" and largely
>determine what they will pay in interest charges for credit cards,
>mortgages, etc.

Your credit file does not determine what interest you pay; your
FINANCIAL HEALTH determines what interest you pay. The information in
your credit file is used to determine your financial health, but that
information is driven by your own behavior and financial circumstances;
it doesn't appear there like magic. And if there are mistakes, you
are legally entitled to correct them.

People who are better risks get better interest rates. It's really
that simple. It makes perfect sense.

>What if you walked into a grocery store that charged high or low
>prices for the same item dependant upon the the race or gender of the
>person making the purchase? Nobody would put up with that...

You seem to have gone off on a tangent here, because there's nothing
about race in credit files, and sex is not a factor in your FICO score.
While it's certainly true that some lenders discriminate based on race,
and who knows perhaps some also discriminate based on sex (although I
don't recall hearing anything specific about that), this really has
nothing to do with your credit file, and it's ILLEGAL to boot.

>The credit issuing companies are perfectly right in denying each
>applicant credit or not, but if credit is granted... Everyone should
>pay whatever market rate is in effect at the time.

No. The credit issuing companies are perfectly right to charge higher
interest rates to people who are higher risks, because a larger
percentage of those people are going to default on their debts, and the
interest the companies earn from the other borrowers in those risk
pools needs to make up for the losses.

Furthermore, purely from the point of view of supply and demand,
lower-risk borrowers are more attractive to lenders, and therefore
lenders have to compete to earn their business by offering them lower
rates.

This is simple, straightforward capitalism. There's nothing illogical
or unethical about it.

>It makes no sense to declare someone a deadbeat and then say "for you,
>you get a 9%, 10%, or 15% mortgage when every else is paying 5 1/2%
>or, we will start you at a low rate for a year, but after that, you
>are going to pay bonzo big bucks at twice or three times the market
>rate.

People aren't "declared" deadbeats by the credit agencies. Their own
actions earn that status for them. No one has the "right" to spend
more than they earn; it is a privilege that a person earns by proving
that s/he is a safe enough borrower that lenders will want to lend him
or her money. If a person doesn't like the interest rates being
offered, then s/he doesn't have to borrow money.

And please spare me the canard about how it's a Catch-22 because you
can't fix a bad credit rating without being able to borrow money,
because it isn't true. Even the worst deadbeats can get credit cards,
and it doesn't matter if the cards have an obscene interest rate,
because if you spend money on the card every month and then pay it off
at the end of the month without paying a penny of interest, that does
wonders for your credit rating.

--
Help stop the genocide in Darfur!
http://www.genocideintervention.net/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best products AAA quality Low price for shoes handbags clothes on www.
cheapforwholesale.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b165bc8b0e2571b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SAVE Money on Postcard, Flyer, and Poster Printing! Promote Your
Business!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/043ee87cbdf1f9c8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 1:05 am
From: fractalien

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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 1:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Shawn Hirn wrote

>>>>>> There is no DRM on digital cable TV broadcasts. You can record
>>>>>> them the same as standard over the air television broadcasts.

>>>>> Sure there is, on encrypted QAM channels. In order to decrypt,
>>>>> you have to have either a cable box rented from the cable company
>>>>> or a CableCard (also rented from the company) in a device that
>>>>> supports a CableCard. And, surprise, there are very few
>>>>> CableCard devices that let you do much of anything with the data.
>>>>> They certainly don't let you copy it to an external device.

>>>> Yes they do, most obviously with the TV you watch it on.

>>> All the devices I've seen tend to have an HDMI output, which means encryption there too.

>> They still clearly allow you to copy it to an external device when that device is a TV.

> OK, even though I thought the meaning was clear from context, I will revise my original statement to be clearer:

> "They certainly don't let you copy it to an external device *which has non-emphemeral storage*."

> Hope that's clearer now.

Nope, the second last word is a complete wank.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 2:38 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <47a92d07$0$16651$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> > There is no DRM on digital cable TV broadcasts. You can record them the
> > same as standard over the air television broadcasts.
>
> Sure there is, on encrypted QAM channels. In order to decrypt, you
> have to have either a cable box rented from the cable company or
> a CableCard (also rented from the company) in a device that supports
> a CableCard. And, surprise, there are very few CableCard devices
> that let you do much of anything with the data. They certainly
> don't let you copy it to an external device. Personally, I'd call
> that DRM.

I do have a box, but I have no problem recording TV shows to tape or DVD.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 2:39 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <47a95a1a$0$30699$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Rod Speed wrote:
> > Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> >> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> >>> There is no DRM on digital cable TV broadcasts. You can record them
> >>> the same as standard over the air television broadcasts.
> >> Sure there is, on encrypted QAM channels. In order to decrypt, you
> >> have to have either a cable box rented from the cable company or
> >> a CableCard (also rented from the company) in a device that supports
> >> a CableCard. And, surprise, there are very few CableCard devices
> >> that let you do much of anything with the data. They certainly
> >> don't let you copy it to an external device.
> >
> > Yes they do, most obviously with the TV you watch it on.
>
> All the devices I've seen tend to have an HDMI output, which
> means encryption there too. Can you name an example of one
> that has a digital output which isn't encrypted? If so, I'm
> interested to know because I'd like to buy such a device.
>
> Of course, there is also an "analog gap" if the device has a
> component video output. But the presence of an analog gap
> doesn't mean it's not DRM. Every system ultimately has an
> analog gap. If having an analog gap meant a system didn't
> have DRM, then there would be no such thing as DRM.

My Scientific Atlanta HD DVD box from Comcast has an HDMI connector;
however, my HD TV does not, so I use its component video connectors.
Works fine for TV viewing and recording.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 2:40 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <47a96826$0$30720$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Rod Speed wrote:
> > Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> >> Rod Speed wrote
> >>> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> >>>> Shawn Hirn wrote
> >
> >>>>> There is no DRM on digital cable TV broadcasts. You can record them
> >>>>> the same as standard over the air television broadcasts.
> >
> >>>> Sure there is, on encrypted QAM channels. In order to decrypt, you have
> >>>> to have either a cable box rented from the
> >>>> cable company or a CableCard (also rented from the company) in a device
> >>>> that supports a CableCard. And, surprise,
> >>>> there are very few CableCard devices that let you do much of anything
> >>>> with the data. They certainly don't let you
> >>>> copy it to an external device.
> >
> >>> Yes they do, most obviously with the TV you watch it on.
> >
> >> All the devices I've seen tend to have an HDMI output, which means
> >> encryption there too.
> >
> > They still clearly allow you to copy it to an external device when that
> > device is a TV.
>
> OK, even though I thought the meaning was clear from context, I will
> revise my original statement to be clearer:
>
> "They certainly don't let you copy it to an external device *which
> has non-emphemeral storage*."
>
> Hope that's clearer now.

Perfectly clear, but totally wrong.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has anybody tried the MagicJack phone thing?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c9a7eb0d7aed1c62?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 3:29 am
From: "friesian@zoocrewphoto.com"

I've seen the ads on tv, and it sounds great. Just wondering if
anybody has actually tried it? Does it work well?

We disabled the long distance on the regular phone line since they
charged even if you didn't use it each month. We use a calling card
which is annoying, and we can't use that with the fax machine. These
sounds nicer, but I am hesitatnt to try it without hearing some
unbiased opinions.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 7:15 am
From: George Grapman

friesian@zoocrewphoto.com wrote:
> I've seen the ads on tv, and it sounds great. Just wondering if
> anybody has actually tried it? Does it work well?
>
> We disabled the long distance on the regular phone line since they
> charged even if you didn't use it each month. We use a calling card
> which is annoying, and we can't use that with the fax machine. These
> sounds nicer, but I am hesitatnt to try it without hearing some
> unbiased opinions.
>
You can use a phone card on a fax. I have done it numerous times.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 8:03 am
From: George

friesian@zoocrewphoto.com wrote:
> I've seen the ads on tv, and it sounds great. Just wondering if
> anybody has actually tried it? Does it work well?
>
> We disabled the long distance on the regular phone line since they
> charged even if you didn't use it each month. We use a calling card
> which is annoying, and we can't use that with the fax machine. These
> sounds nicer, but I am hesitatnt to try it without hearing some
> unbiased opinions.
>
The main problem with them is that they don't have a sustainable
business model (think back to the overenthusiastic dotcom days). It
actually costs more to provide the service than they are charging.

I don't understand why you can't use a calling card with a fax machine.
Pick up the handset and dial whatever sequence is required and push
start.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 12:18 pm
From: "rox"

"George" <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:w7adnYuQWPv3RzTanZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> friesian@zoocrewphoto.com wrote:
>> I've seen the ads on tv, and it sounds great. Just wondering if
>> anybody has actually tried it? Does it work well?
>>
>> We disabled the long distance on the regular phone line since they
>> charged even if you didn't use it each month. We use a calling card
>> which is annoying, and we can't use that with the fax machine. These
>> sounds nicer, but I am hesitatnt to try it without hearing some
>> unbiased opinions.
>>
> The main problem with them is that they don't have a sustainable business
> model (think back to the overenthusiastic dotcom days). It actually costs
> more to provide the service than they are charging.
>
> I don't understand why you can't use a calling card with a fax machine.
> Pick up the handset and dial whatever sequence is required and push start.

When you disable long distance calling on a line it doesn't matter if the
call is placed by telephone equipment or a fax machine. The OP turned off
long distance service and only has a local line.

I have that too, my phone bill was $30+ per month on a line I literally made
1-2 phone calls on per month. I have it at about $7 now. I keep it because
Verizon claims they cannot offer me DSL unless I have a local line (I know,
I know, it's crap info but I can't get them to budge on that). Any long
distance calls I make are on my cell phone.

to the OP:
You might want to think about faxing via email. I don't know about the
costs (it's been years and the last time I tried it I had a free account
with eFax) but if you do a little research that might be a solution for you.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 7:02 am
From: "OhioGuy"

http://www.delmonte.com/products/TomatoesList.asp?typeID=16

I'm especially looking for the Garlic & Herb, Tomato & Basil, plus the 4
Cheese varieties. About 6 years ago, when I lived in a different
neighborhood, I stopped in a tiny local grocery store. Inside, I saw a
variety of cans of Del Monte spaghetti sauces. I had never seen this brand
before, since I typically went with Hunt's or store brand, so I gave them a
try. I fell in love especially with the Garlic & Herb. The Del Monte brand
is sweeter and less salty than Hunt's and other brands I've had in the past,
and I truly prefer it a lot.

The problem is that the tiny grocery store went out of business, and I
can't find these varieties locally. Wal-Mart carries the basic meat and
mushroom versions of Del Monte, but I don't like those that much. We have
Kroger and Meijer grocery chains here in the Dayton, Ohio area, but it seems
like they only want to carry Ragu, Hunt's, and the store brand. I've
brought up my requests to carry the Del Monte several times, but they never
add it.

Have you ever been in a similar situation, where your local grocers won't
carry something you really want? How have you been successful in obtaining
it? Anyone have any suggestions on how I might proceed?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 7:34 am
From: "rox"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:foci5t$tdb$1@aioe.org...
> http://www.delmonte.com/products/TomatoesList.asp?typeID=16
>
>
<SNIP>
> Have you ever been in a similar situation, where your local grocers won't
> carry something you really want? How have you been successful in
> obtaining it? Anyone have any suggestions on how I might proceed?
>
Supermarkets (and WalMart) do structure buying in a fairly rigid way but
I've never had trouble getting ShopRite, Stop & Shop, or PathMark to stock
items I wanted. In fairness my father worked for ShopRite in their
Elizabeth NJ warehouse. So when I mentioned to Dad I liked something
slightly obscure it tended to end up on the shelf of my local ShopRite about
a week later. All my friends loved that on-demand service.

When you made your inital request did you speak to a regular clerk or did
you get the department manager? Not the store mananger--they are impossible
to sway, just too busy and in demand. The level below that but above floor
supervisor. It varies what the exact title is from chain to chain but the
gist is the person who mananges non-perishable, non-frozen food. That
person should be able to email their RDC (regional distribution center) and
ask for a case of whatever to be put on the next truck. Sometimes it's just
a matter of finding the right human to talk to.

That person will also be able to tell you if the chain itself has a policy
against placing orders like that--some chains will not do this because they
don't want the extra expense & hassle. Ask him/her to be honest about your
prospects of getting what you want. You might also offer to buy a case at a
time...canned doesn't go bad fast enough for that to be a problem.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 8:05 am
From: George Grapman

rox wrote:
> "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:foci5t$tdb$1@aioe.org...
>> http://www.delmonte.com/products/TomatoesList.asp?typeID=16
>>
>>
> <SNIP>
>> Have you ever been in a similar situation, where your local grocers won't
>> carry something you really want? How have you been successful in
>> obtaining it? Anyone have any suggestions on how I might proceed?
>>
> Supermarkets (and WalMart) do structure buying in a fairly rigid way but
> I've never had trouble getting ShopRite, Stop & Shop, or PathMark to stock
> items I wanted. In fairness my father worked for ShopRite in their
> Elizabeth NJ warehouse. So when I mentioned to Dad I liked something
> slightly obscure it tended to end up on the shelf of my local ShopRite about
> a week later. All my friends loved that on-demand service.
>
> When you made your inital request did you speak to a regular clerk or did
> you get the department manager? Not the store mananger--they are impossible
> to sway, just too busy and in demand. The level below that but above floor
> supervisor. It varies what the exact title is from chain to chain but the
> gist is the person who mananges non-perishable, non-frozen food. That
> person should be able to email their RDC (regional distribution center) and
> ask for a case of whatever to be put on the next truck. Sometimes it's just
> a matter of finding the right human to talk to.
>
> That person will also be able to tell you if the chain itself has a policy
> against placing orders like that--some chains will not do this because they
> don't want the extra expense & hassle. Ask him/her to be honest about your
> prospects of getting what you want. You might also offer to buy a case at a
> time...canned doesn't go bad fast enough for that to be a problem.
>
>

Have you tried mom and pop stores? You deal directly with the
owner.They are more likely to take a chance on things that are either
non-perishable or can be returned. I requested that a store carry frozen
waffles (he sold enough to reorder) and the New York Times (he only sold
two copies a day and they dropped him).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why Traditional Job Searches Fail to Yield Great Results
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/501e63bdc45b7cb2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 8:17 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

Corporate downsizing is here to stay. When large corporations total up
the health care costs, retirement plan, vacation pay, life insurance,
and disability insurance, a $35,000 college graduate really costs
$50,000.

Outsourcing takes care of the downsizing problem. Consider the trends:
IT outsourcing topped $100 billion in 2005, 80 percent of companies
expect to increase their investment in outsourcing., companies love
India because English is a second language

Résumés are confetti paper: Every graduate uses the same MS Word and
WordPerfect templates, so all resumes look the same. When a company asks
for a scannable or a keyword resume, candidates become even more
indistinguishable!

Job skills change every few years. The average undergraduate student
takes 5 years to get a B.S. degree. In that period of time, the entire
world has changed. Case in point: Engineering and Teaching (once
guaranteed careers) are actually slow growth professions. According to
the Occupational Outlook Handbook, the careers showing the most promise
through 2012 are service related, health care related and homeland
security related. Of those, only highly skilled health care jobs -
doctors, nurses, and specialists - are paying a livable wage.

Human Resource departments are there to keep you out, not grant you an
interview. They are not the hiring decision makers, you future boss is.
Did you know that most jobs are never advertised? The jobs are filled
before there is any need for an advertisement. That means HR is out of
the loop.

All is not lost however. I have developed a fail proof seminar called
Thriving in a Global Economy. No matter what the world looks like, the
system works! You learn how to save money and make money. You become the
master of your universe. The model that says pick a career by age 18 and
stick with it until you're 65 is dead. The model that teaches
sustainable and practical money management has been born. Don't ever be
discouraged again. Harness the knowledge of "Thriving in a Global
Economy". http://www.cheapogroovo.com

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 8:41 am
From: clams_casino

Cheapo Groovo wrote:

>Corporate downsizing is here to stay.
>

Does abuse@cogentco.com, abuse@wideopenwest.com & abuse@giganews.com
agree with the way you continually spam this newsgroup?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 12:21 pm
From: "rox"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:nrlqj.44297$m6.34873@newsfe18.lga...
> Cheapo Groovo wrote:
>
>>Corporate downsizing is here to stay.
>
>
> Does abuse@cogentco.com, abuse@wideopenwest.com & abuse@giganews.com agree
> with the way you continually spam this newsgroup?

From the amount of crap I see--giganews could not care less. Nor, I bet,
can those others mentioned above.

==============================================================================
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 8:45 am
From: "kenny.mcgrill@googlemail.com"

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TOPIC: Find the value of your house!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a8d949a93028579c?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 9:07 am
From: freefreehouse@yahoo.com

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 9:20 am
From: judith

On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:47:05 +0800, "Simon Yorker"
<Siyork@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Index the websites and search engines to help you to find the value of your
>house. You don't need to contact the
>realtor and appraiser . To know the value of your house just a click!
>
>Best Regards
>Chris ZiiFa
>Address:
>e-mail:
>web-site: http://www.geocities.com/zifaafena/
>
>

There has been a sudden surge in recent weeks of shit like this. I
assume there is revenue to be made - but I also assume someone has to
actually click on a link for the fuckwit spammer to earn a penny/cent?

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TOPIC: Frugal rent?
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==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 10:59 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 4, 9:46 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> Coffee's For Closers wrote:
> > In article <georgewspamk-F69395.09504703022...@sn-ip.vsrv-
> > sjc.supernews.net>, georgewsp...@humboldt1.com says...
> >> Contact someone about to abandon their home in foreclosure. cheap rent it
> >> until evicted? how long would that work?
>
> Good luck suing your landlord when the bank takes over and your
> belonging are put out. And what recourse would you have to recover your
> rent, you certainly won't be on top of the list.
>
>
>
> > My understanding is that, people who are really desperate (and
> > some who aren't), tend to stay in the home throughout the
> > foreclosure process. Only abandoning it near the last minute,
> > when they are forcibly told to leave.
>
> > Although I suppose it might work with a home-buyer who was only
> > speculating, hoping to flip it quickly, and never lived in the
> > place. There could potentially be several months left until the
> > actual seizure.
>
> I know someone who is putting tenants into such homes. Generally the
> house is subdivided and several people are put in. Perhaps workable for
> the investor if the foreclosure isn't too close, but often that only
> forestays the inevitable. These arrangements are typically month to month.
>
> Signs of the times.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Most communities have zoning regs in place that single family homes
are to be used for single families.

Renting out the rooms won't work.

But then again the authorities need to know what is going on too.

TMT

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 11:10 am
From: Terry

IDT added a dollar to my three dollar phone bill. It was to send me a
paper statment.

I asked for a hard copy bill, only because it is a pain in the ass to
have to log on to the utility company's web site to check my bill.

I would love it if they just sent the statement in an email, but they
don't do it that way. I have to set up a username and password.
I pay the bill using direct draft so the only reason I want to see my
statement is to check the call log. I then just throw the statement
away.

We are talking about a phone bill not a CIA secret document.

Just sending an email should be enough security just to view the bill.
I told them I was not going to pay for them to send me a bill. They
could just cancel my service. They waived the charge, but ignored my
suggestion just to email it to me.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 11:47 am
From: eterica

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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 10:58 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

I just had a chance to do some comparisons, and I'm stunned how much
less water we are using in our manufactured home in Alabama than we
were in our old home in south Florida. There are a number of factors
involved, including climate, but the variations in useage bear
examining.

If you want to compare from your own water bills, a hundred cubic feet
of water is 750 gallons.

In the old home, we had a regular big old top load clothes washer,
washed some dishes by hand until the last few months there, had
regular showerheads, had the old style toilets that were flushed
whenever they were used, watered plants in the winter, had to add
water to the pool every few months, and during the summer only,
minimally used the roof sprinkler to extend the life of the roof (low
flow setting, total of about 40 min of watering a day. Water pressure
was about 60 psi.

We were hooked to city water and tried to be prudent, but not
obsessive about our water use. A low usage month was measured at
33000 gallons, with a couple months over a five year period close to 3
times that figure. Looking back, I'm astounded how much water we
used, or supposedly used, especially since we had our own irrigation
well for watering the lawn, which isn't included in those figures.

When we lived in the camper this past summer, our well could only
produce 25 gal/day and we used less than 750 gal/mo. The toilet was a
camper toilet, which might use a pint of water per flush, showers were
limited to about five minutes or less, and we had no clothes washer,
dishwasher, pool, or roof sprinkler. We did water plants, but there
weren't as many to water.

At our new home, we have a high-efficiency clothes washer, dishwasher,
1.6gpf toilets, spa tub, and we shower regularly using a low-flow
showerhead (but less than in Florida where we were sweating all the
time). Water is at about 45PSI through the regulator. We have an
1100 gal storage cistern, which gets filled about 3 times a month.

3300 gallons compared to 33000 gallons is a tenfold difference with no
pain, and the camper use of 750 gallons per month is 1/4 of that
amount. The differences are amazing, and I've become convinced that
the water saving devices are all they claim to be. Even though our
water here is essentially free, I'm tickled, since the septic system
will be that much less loaded and the costs of heating water will be
reduced.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 6 2008 12:19 pm
From: Dawn

On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:58:27 -0500, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

for a quick second there I was very unhappy. I just got a bill in the
past couple of weeks and did the math. Used 55000 gallons of water.
I was like soooo annoyed and thinking that is way too much water we
are using. Looking at my past useage it was right in line with what
we used the last two years at this time. Then I remembered.....it is
a two month bill. Whew. 27500 is still a lot of water but not quite
so bad for a month.
Dawn, still thinking we could do better.

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3 new messages in 1 topic - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* BEST LCD OR PLASMA 42" TV SET ON MARKET??? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3cb34b276c0ce20e?hl=en

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 5 2008 10:56 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Rod Speed wrote:
> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>>> There is no DRM on digital cable TV broadcasts. You can record them
>>> the same as standard over the air television broadcasts.
>> Sure there is, on encrypted QAM channels. In order to decrypt, you
>> have to have either a cable box rented from the cable company or
>> a CableCard (also rented from the company) in a device that supports
>> a CableCard. And, surprise, there are very few CableCard devices
>> that let you do much of anything with the data. They certainly
>> don't let you copy it to an external device.
>
> Yes they do, most obviously with the TV you watch it on.

All the devices I've seen tend to have an HDMI output, which
means encryption there too. Can you name an example of one
that has a digital output which isn't encrypted? If so, I'm
interested to know because I'd like to buy such a device.

Of course, there is also an "analog gap" if the device has a
component video output. But the presence of an analog gap
doesn't mean it's not DRM. Every system ultimately has an
analog gap. If having an analog gap meant a system didn't
have DRM, then there would be no such thing as DRM.

- Logan

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 5 2008 11:19 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
>>> Shawn Hirn wrote

>>>> There is no DRM on digital cable TV broadcasts. You can record them
>>>> the same as standard over the air television broadcasts.

>>> Sure there is, on encrypted QAM channels. In order to decrypt, you have to have either a cable box rented from the
>>> cable company or a CableCard (also rented from the company) in a device that supports a CableCard. And, surprise,
>>> there are very few CableCard devices that let you do much of anything with the data. They certainly don't let you
>>> copy it to an external device.

>> Yes they do, most obviously with the TV you watch it on.

> All the devices I've seen tend to have an HDMI output, which means encryption there too.

They still clearly allow you to copy it to an external device when that device is a TV.

> Can you name an example of one that has a digital output which isn't encrypted? If so, I'm interested to know because
> I'd like to buy such a device.

I was JUST commenting on your claim that 'they
certainly don't let you copy it to an external device'

They all clearly do when that 'external device' is a TV.

> Of course, there is also an "analog gap" if the device has a component video output. But the presence of an analog
> gap doesn't mean it's not DRM.

It does however mean that you can ignore the DRM if you choose to.

> Every system ultimately has an analog gap. If having an analog gap meant a system didn't have DRM, then there would
> be no such thing as DRM.

Irrelevant to your claim that 'they certainly don't let you copy it to an external device'

They all clearly do when that 'external device' is a TV.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 5 2008 11:56 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Rod Speed wrote:
> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Shawn Hirn wrote
>
>>>>> There is no DRM on digital cable TV broadcasts. You can record them
>>>>> the same as standard over the air television broadcasts.
>
>>>> Sure there is, on encrypted QAM channels. In order to decrypt, you have to have either a cable box rented from the
>>>> cable company or a CableCard (also rented from the company) in a device that supports a CableCard. And, surprise,
>>>> there are very few CableCard devices that let you do much of anything with the data. They certainly don't let you
>>>> copy it to an external device.
>
>>> Yes they do, most obviously with the TV you watch it on.
>
>> All the devices I've seen tend to have an HDMI output, which means encryption there too.
>
> They still clearly allow you to copy it to an external device when that device is a TV.

OK, even though I thought the meaning was clear from context, I will
revise my original statement to be clearer:

"They certainly don't let you copy it to an external device *which
has non-emphemeral storage*."

Hope that's clearer now.

- Logan

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