Frugal Living: Feb 18, 2009

Wednesday, February 18, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is there a downloadable free tax software?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3a172c8ae95479e1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 11:05 am
From: The Real Bev

Vic Smith wrote:
> <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> James wrote:
>>
>>> The free tax software I've seen so far are online programs. I'm looking
>>> for one I could use without sending my info online to who know where.
>>
>> Does your brokerage offer on-line tax prep? If you trust them to keep your
>> investments I would think they are sufficiently trustworthy to keep your
>> tax info safe, especially if $25 or so for softare is undesirable.
>>
>> I usually use TurboTax, but this year I switched to TaxCut -- way cheaper
>> when the only thing I need the expensive TT version for is a single
>> Schedule C. Besides, I'm pissed that TT gives its loyal customers a worse
>> price than they can get off the shelf at Staples/OfficeDepot, etc.
>
> I almost switched, but stayed with TT. There was a furor when TT changed the
> game this year - something about charges for transmitted returns or charges
> for state tax returns - can't remember.

I'm willing to send paper -- SOMEBODY charges for electronic transmittal, and
since I always have to send a check "fast" just doesn't matter.

> They backed off because of the heat they were taking.

They've always been kind of cheesy about pricing and rewarding long-term
customers for their loyalty, but they've taken a turn for the worse. TC seems a
little clunkier than TT, at least it was when I last used it several years ago,
but it got the job done.

> I do 5 or 6 family returns and I think they're allowing 6 free fed
> transmittals this year, so it's cheaper than ever. Still cost more than
> TaxCut though. I paid $40.98 total for TT Deluxe on Buy.com. It's sitting
> here in the package but I haven't installed it yet. I also have to file for
> contracts and straddles - small time stuff - and I'm just accustomed to using
> TT. Aside from that, here's something "strange." A couple weeks ago I went on
> Amazon.com and TT Deluxe was $40 or $42. I decided to wait a bit and see if
> the price would come down. I usually don't file until April. A few days
> later one of my kids started pushing me because she wanted her refund for an
> upcoming vacation. I go back on Amazon to order and it's now $48! Odd.
> Anyway, I found it at Buy.com for what had been Amazon's price.

Costco generally has the best price, but this year they didn't carry TaxCut, at
least not yet. Sellout bastards. I got TC at Sam's Club instead.

--
Cheers, Bev
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
When cryptography is outlawed, only outlaws will
qwertzuio asdfghjk pyxcvbnml -- M. O'Dorney

==============================================================================
TOPIC: America is doomed without industrial restoration
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ac833194943bee0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 11:42 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Bama Brian wrote:
> zzbunker wrote:
>> On Feb 17, 12:00 pm, Bama Brian <bamaNOTbr...@att.net> wrote:
>>> zzbunkerwrote:
>>>> On Feb 15, 9:10 pm, Aviroce <dudaras...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Four years ago or more, I wrote an article on open Yahoo forum
>>>>> which Yahoo adapted to their file for publication. That article
>>>>> deals with what America has been known for and that coincides
>>>>> with some of your statements.
>>>>> 'The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US
>>>>> workers - and only US workers - the ability to make this country
>>>>> into a powerhouse again "
>>>>> As for your,
>>>>> "This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
>>>>> immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants! "
>>>>> the Army announced plans to induct even temporary visa-ed Mexicans
>>>>> into the Army to fill their quota. Needless to say, the military
>>>>> complex had inducted over 88,000 illegal migrants into the Army,
>>>>> Marines, and Navy and facilitated their USA citizenships while on
>>>>> service of duty. Now they are openning the avenue for further
>>>>> recruits.
>>>>> Keep in mind these desparate Mexicans to make a living are
>>>>> "Slaves by Choice." It is undfortunate. Even the Dollar Tree
>>>>> stores use Mexicans for their dedicated labor for less. Rainbow
>>>>> clothing use these Mexicans even in store management. When you
>>>>> pay an employee twelve thousand dollars for work worth sixty
>>>>> thousand dollars, then you got some choice to make.
>>>>> What some of these businesses are forgetting about that American
>>>>> labor is willing to go down in their wages just to land a job. I
>>>>> use a handyman for $50 a day to fix my homes from sheet rock to
>>>>> roofing to electrical work to heating and air conditionning. All
>>>>> workers are Americans, black and white. No illegal aliens. That
>>>>> would be un- American. Having said that I get offended to find
>>>>> an illegal alien manning a Dollar Tree oe Rainbow stores while
>>>>> native Americans are under his/her command. Are Americans being
>>>>> colonized?
>>>> Of, course. Since that's the only thing any of those convenience
>>>> stores use for either electric help or anything else anymore.
>>>> Which is also why amymore the real engineers mostly build
>>>> Optical Computers, HDTV, Holograms, On-Line Banking,
>>>> On-Line Publishing, Post Ford Batteries, Adaptive A.I.
>>>> Fiber Optics, Pv Cell Energy, Post AT&T Phonics,
>>>> and Post GM Robotics.
>>> The "real" engineers watch their designs being sent offshore for
>>> build. They then watch as the offshore factory engineers blatantly
>>> copy their design and flood the market with cheaper copies.
>>>
>>> Even IBM sold their computer hardware market directly to a Chinese
>>> company.
>>
>> Well, that was predestimed. Since it became obvious, quickly
>> after the AT&T breakup, that the only thing iBM knew about
>> computers was AT&T.
>> Which is also the people who knew about computer-engineering
>> jobs worked on Optical Computers, HDTV, Robotics,
>> and Laser Disks that aren't owned by G.M.
>
> Here's a partial list of things no longer made in the US:
>
> Consumer goods: CD's, DVD's, CD/DVD players, laptops, desktops, hard
> disk drives, DRAM, ROM, Flash RAM, TV's, HDTV's, Plasma TV's, LCD
> TV's, Digital cameras, film cameras, computer games, telephones, cell
> phones, watches, bicycles, motorcycles - except for perhaps half of
> Harley's, iPOds, and so on.
>
> Food products: Half of all produce is now grown offshore. Much
> canning is done in China, where it is physically cheaper to ship the
> produce and have it canned.
>
> Clothing: Virtually all dresses, jeans, pants, underwear, coats,
> shirts, socks and shoes.
>
> Ocean going vessels: 1% made in the US - and those are for the US
> Navy.
> Aircraft: Approximately 40% of commercial aircraft are built in the
> US.
> Guns: Half of all guns and ammo are manufactured offshore.
> Manufacturers such as Taurus, H&K, Glock, Browning, and Steyr, lead in
> innovation.
>
> Cars: An estimated sixty percent of the components of so-called
> American cars are built offshore. The number is higher for the
> foreign manufacturers.
>
> Toys: Virtually all toys are manufactured offshore.
>
> Robotics: There are an estimated 186,000 robots in use in the US.
> World-wide there are over a million in use, with Japan being the
> number one manufacturer and user. Even South Korea plans a robotic
> theme park, estimated to cost over $1 billion. By contrast, the
> entire US output in 2008 is estimated at only $860 million.

> My point is really simple.

Naively simplistic, actually.

> If we don't start bringing manufacturing back on-shore,

Taint gunna happen. No one is stupid enough to do it where its much more expensive.

> we'll all be happy just to be eating.

Mindlessly silly. Modern first world economys are about a hell of a lot more than just manufacturing.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 5:39 pm
From: "zzbunker@netscape.net"

On Feb 18, 1:48 pm, Bama Brian <bamaNOTbr...@att.net> wrote:
> zzbunkerwrote:
> > On Feb 17, 12:00 pm, Bama Brian <bamaNOTbr...@att.net> wrote:
> >> zzbunkerwrote:
> >>> On Feb 15, 9:10 pm, Aviroce <dudaras...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Four years ago or more, I wrote an article on open Yahoo forum which
> >>>> Yahoo adapted to their file for publication. That article deals with
> >>>> what America has been known for and that coincides with some of your
> >>>> statements.
> >>>> 'The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
> >>>> and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
> >>>> powerhouse again "
> >>>> As for your,
> >>>> "This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
> >>>> immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants! "
> >>>> the Army announced plans to induct even temporary visa-ed Mexicans
> >>>> into the Army to fill their quota. Needless to say, the military
> >>>> complex had inducted over 88,000 illegal migrants into the Army,
> >>>> Marines, and Navy and facilitated their USA citizenships while on
> >>>> service of duty. Now they are openning the avenue for further
> >>>> recruits.
> >>>> Keep in mind these desparate Mexicans to make a living are "Slaves by
> >>>> Choice." It is undfortunate. Even the Dollar Tree stores use
> >>>> Mexicans for their dedicated labor for less. Rainbow clothing use
> >>>> these Mexicans even in store management. When you pay an employee
> >>>> twelve thousand dollars for work worth sixty thousand dollars, then
> >>>> you got some choice to make.
> >>>> What some of these businesses are forgetting about that American labor
> >>>> is willing to go down in their wages just to land a job. I use a
> >>>> handyman for $50 a day to fix my homes from sheet rock to roofing to
> >>>> electrical work to heating and air conditionning. All workers are
> >>>> Americans, black and white. No illegal aliens. That would be un-
> >>>> American. Having said that I get offended to find an illegal alien
> >>>> manning a Dollar Tree oe Rainbow stores while native Americans are
> >>>> under his/her command. Are Americans being colonized?
> >>> Of, course. Since that's the only thing any of those convenience
> >>> stores use for either electric help or anything else anymore.
> >>> Which is also why amymore the real engineers mostly build
> >>> Optical Computers, HDTV, Holograms, On-Line Banking,
> >>> On-Line Publishing, Post Ford Batteries, Adaptive A.I.
> >>> Fiber Optics, Pv Cell Energy, Post AT&T Phonics,
> >>> and Post GM Robotics.
> >> The "real" engineers watch their designs being sent offshore for build.
> >> They then watch as the offshore factory engineers blatantly copy their
> >> design and flood the market with cheaper copies.
>
> >> Even IBM sold their computer hardware market directly to a Chinese company.
>
> > Well, that was predestimed. Since it became obvious, quickly
> > after the AT&T breakup, that the only thing iBM knew about
> > computers was AT&T.
> > Which is also the people who knew about computer-engineering
> > jobs worked on Optical Computers, HDTV, Robotics,
> > and Laser Disks that aren't owned by G.M.
>
> Here's a partial list of things no longer made in the US:
>
> Consumer goods: CD's, DVD's, CD/DVD players, laptops, desktops, hard
> disk drives, DRAM, ROM, Flash RAM, TV's, HDTV's, Plasma TV's, LCD TV's,

But, that's because making CD's, DVDs and TVs is so trivial,
that's why the engineers with brains make MP3, MP4. GPS,
fiber optics, optical computers, holograms and holographic memory,
Laser-Jet Printers, and On-Line Publishing, and export the fluff to
the
Quantum reguritants anyway.

And since all the other stuff you listed are subsidiary
technologies,
that's why thry're exported.

> Digital cameras, film cameras, computer games, telephones, cell phones,
> watches, bicycles, motorcycles - except for perhaps half of Harley's,
> iPOds, and so on.
>
> Food products: Half of all produce is now grown offshore. Much canning
> is done in China, where it is physically cheaper to ship the produce and
> have it canned.
>
> Clothing: Virtually all dresses, jeans, pants, underwear, coats,
> shirts, socks and shoes.
>
> Ocean going vessels: 1% made in the US - and those are for the US Navy.
>
> Aircraft: Approximately 40% of commercial aircraft are built in the US.
>
> Guns: Half of all guns and ammo are manufactured offshore.
> Manufacturers such as Taurus, H&K, Glock, Browning, and Steyr, lead in
> innovation.
>
> Cars: An estimated sixty percent of the components of so-called
> American cars are built offshore. The number is higher for the foreign
> manufacturers.
>
> Toys: Virtually all toys are manufactured offshore.
>
> Robotics: There are an estimated 186,000 robots in use in the US.
> World-wide there are over a million in use, with Japan being the number
> one manufacturer and user. Even South Korea plans a robotic theme park,
> estimated to cost over $1 billion. By contrast, the entire US output in
> 2008 is estimated at only $860 million.
>
> My point is really simple. If we don't start bringing manufacturing
> back on-shore, we'll all be happy just to be eating.
>
> --
> "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
> George Santayana, 1863 - 1952
>
> Cheers,
> Bama Brian
> Libertarian- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mixing CFLs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3585b15c24a653c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 12:26 pm
From: "TKM"

"Evelyn Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:499c25fd$0$16828$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>I notice the packages for CFLs say not to mix CFLs of different brands (or
>CFLs and incandescents) on the same circuit. Is this a real concern, or
>just the CFL people trying to sell more of their own brand?
>
> I ask because we have six floodlights in our den and I would like to swap
> them for CFLs as they burn out, not discard five perfectly good bulbs
> because I put a CFL in the one that burns out first.
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Nobody believes the official spokesman ... but everybody
> trusts an unidentified source. -Ron Nesen, 1977

There's no electrical or safety reason not to mix different brands of CFLs;
but there could be an appearance reason. The color of CFLs (chromaticity)
can vary both lamp-to-lamp and manufaturer-to-manufacturer. Seen
side-by-side, any color differences among CFLs are very visible and the
variation is more than the color differences among standard household bulbs.

You can minimize color differences by using "Energy Star" CFLs. They are
tested and have to meet color requirements.

Otherwise, there are no agreed-upon color standards for CFLs other than what
the manufacturers impose upon themselves.

TKM

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 1:35 pm
From: Jeff

TKM wrote:
> "Evelyn Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:499c25fd$0$16828$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>> I notice the packages for CFLs say not to mix CFLs of different brands (or
>> CFLs and incandescents) on the same circuit. Is this a real concern, or
>> just the CFL people trying to sell more of their own brand?
>>
>> I ask because we have six floodlights in our den and I would like to swap
>> them for CFLs as they burn out, not discard five perfectly good bulbs
>> because I put a CFL in the one that burns out first.
>>
>> --
>> Evelyn C. Leeper
>> Nobody believes the official spokesman ... but everybody
>> trusts an unidentified source. -Ron Nesen, 1977
>
> There's no electrical or safety reason not to mix different brands of CFLs;
> but there could be an appearance reason. The color of CFLs (chromaticity)
> can vary both lamp-to-lamp and manufaturer-to-manufacturer. Seen
> side-by-side, any color differences among CFLs are very visible and the
> variation is more than the color differences among standard household bulbs.

I agree with TKM. The bulbs will look white until you put them side by
side, then you will see color casts. Fluorescent phosphors can vary widely.

>
> You can minimize color differences by using "Energy Star" CFLs. They are
> tested and have to meet color requirements.

All around good advice. You may also make sure that you are in the
same color family (warm or cool).

I expect/hope Don Klipstein will be around to fill in any details
we've missed.

Jeff
>
> Otherwise, there are no agreed-upon color standards for CFLs other than what
> the manufacturers impose upon themselves.
>
> TKM
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 3:55 pm
From: Gordon

Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote in
news:O8Odna7r3rdY0gHUnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@posted.visi:

> But do note that CFLs may not be a good choice for some enclosed or
> recessed fixtures. They don't make anywhere near as much heat as an
> incandescent, but they're very much more sensitive to heat.

My experience in shopping for CFLs recently has been that they
don't recomend them for use in enclosed fixtures. I didn't
see that warning on the package, but it was printed on the
ballast of the bulb in the package. I finnaly found a pair
of bulbs that didn't have the warning and were garenteed
to fire up at low temps. Since I was placing them in an
enclosed outdoor fixture...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Land-line Phone Amplifier?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0fa399efe6d10552?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 1:44 pm
From: maryatbeach@webtv.net (Mary Mathews)

Does anyone know where I can find a land line phone amplifier? Also, is
there an amplifier feature on any cell phone? Thank you. Mary

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 4:58 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Mary Mathews wrote:

> Does anyone know where I can find a land line phone amplifier?

You can still buy the pickups that are intended to record phone conversations
and just use any normal amp to amplify with them, from Radio Shack etc.

> Also, is there an amplifier feature on any cell phone?

Yep, there are heaps of those, mostly intended to be used in cars etc.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 5:24 pm
From: Dave Garland

Mary Mathews wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find a land line phone amplifier?

By googling "telephone amplifier".

Also, is
> there an amplifier feature on any cell phone?

Depending on what you mean. My Nokia 1208 (which is probably about as
cheap as a cell phone can be) has adjustable volume, and if that's not
enough it has a speakerphone setting.

Dave

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 7:46 pm
From: maryatbeach@webtv.net (Mary Mathews)

Thank you both. You have been a big help! Mary

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bubbles are caused by excessive credit.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d06a55cb7610180d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 2:23 pm
From: josejarvie@ssnet.net

"Saving" Social Security: A Neoliberal Recapitulation of Primitive Accumulation
by Alan G. Nasser

http://monthlyreview.org/1200nass.htm

>Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
>> (David P.) wrote:
>> > The main cause of the Population Bubble is also
>> > excessive credit, i.e., saying that everyone is a
>> > valuable asset as long as they live.
>> > L I K E H E L L T H E Y A R E ! !
>> > Hordes are no longer viable, due to infirmity,
>> > and become a drag on the system.
>>
>> I'm not aware of bubbles in nations where there are these so-called
>> 'hordes' you speak of.
>
>
>
>Economic Death Spiral
>
>By Robert J. Samuelson
>Wednesday, April 6, 2005
>
>The great danger of an aging society is that the rising costs
>of government retirement programs -- mainly Social Security
>and Medicare -- increase taxes or budget deficits so much
>that they reduce economic growth. This could trigger an
>economic and political death spiral. Our commitments to
>pay retirement benefits grow while our capacity to meet
>them shrinks. Workers and retirees battle over a relatively
>fixed economic pie. The debate we're not having is how to
>avoid this dismal future. President Bush's vague Social
>Security proposal, including "personal accounts," sidesteps
>the critical issues. His noisiest critics are equally silent.
>
>Just recently the trustees of Social Security and Medicare
>issued their annual reports on the programs' futures. Here's
>one startling fact that emerges from a close examination of
>the reports: By 2030 the projected costs of Social Security
>and Medicare could easily consume -- via higher taxes -- a
>third of workers' future wage and salary increases. Toss in
>Medicaid (which covers nursing home care and isn't
>included in the trustees' reports) and the bite grows. We're
>mortgaging workers' future pay gains for baby boomers'
>retirement benefits.
>
>The facts are hiding in plain sight. The trustees' reports
>project Social Security and Medicare spending. They also
>estimate future wages and salaries -- the main tax base for
>Social Security and Medicare. Comparing the two shows
>how much retirement costs may erode wage increases.
>The reports should make and highlight this calculation, but
>they don't. So I asked economists Tom Saving of Texas
>A&M University and Eugene Steuerle of the Urban Institute
>to do it. They provided similar results.
>
>Here are the basic numbers, as calculated by Elizabeth Bell,
>a research assistant to Steuerle. In 2005 Social Security
>and Medicare are expected to cost $822 billion (that's net
>of premiums paid by recipients); by 2030 the costs are
>projected to increase to $4.640 trillion. That's an increase
>of $3.818 trillion. Over the same period, annual wages and
>salaries are projected to rise from $5.856 trillion to $17.702
>trillion -- an increase of $11.846 trillion. Despite the big
>numbers, the arithmetic is straightforward: The increases in
>Social Security and Medicare represent 32 percent of the
>increases in wages and salaries.
>
>This matters because Social Security and Medicare (and
>Medicaid, too) are pay-as-you-go programs. Current tax-
>payers pay current benefits. Future taxpayers -- mainly
>future workers -- will pay future benefits. Baby boomers'
>retirement benefits will come mostly from their children and
>grandchildren, who will be tomorrow's workers. Even if
>adopted, President Bush's personal accounts for Social
>Security would hardly alter that. (They wouldn't change
>Medicare and Medicaid and would only slightly affect
>boomers' Social Security benefits.)
>
>Consequently, baby boomers' children and grandchildren
>face massive tax increases. Social Security and Medicare
>spending now equals 14 percent of wage and salary
>income, reports Bell. By 2030, using the trustees' various
>projections, that jumps to 26 percent. Of course, payroll
>taxes don't cover all the costs of Social Security and
>Medicare. Still, these figures provide a crude indicator of
>the economic burden, because costs are imposed heavily
>on workers via some tax (including the income tax),
>government borrowing (a.k.a. the deficit) and cuts in other
>government programs.
>
>It can be argued that the costs are bearable. The wage
>gains in the trustees' reports could prove too pessimistic.
>Like all forecasts, they're subject to errors. Even if they
>come true, they assume that tomorrow's wages will be
>higher than today's. Productivity increases; wages rise.
>In 2030, under the trustees' "intermediate" assumptions,
>workers' before-tax incomes would be about a third higher
>than now, says Saving. What's the gripe if workers lost --
>through steeper taxes -- some of that? Why shouldn't they
>generously support parents and grandparents? Well,
>maybe they will. But there are at least two possible flaws
>in this logic.
>
>The first is that, on a year-to-year basis, wage gains
>would be tiny -- less than 1 percent. When they've gotten
>that low before, people have complained that they're
>"on a treadmill" and that the American dream has been
>repealed. Even these gains might be diluted by further
>tax increases to trim today's already swollen budget
>deficits. The second and more serious threat is that higher
>taxes would harm the economy. They might dull economic
>vitality by reducing investment and the rewards for work
>and risk-taking. Productivity and wage gains might be
>smaller than predicted. Then we'd flirt with that death spiral:
>We'd need still-higher taxes to pay benefits, but those
>taxes might depress economic growth more.
>
>One way or another, workers may get fed up paying so
>much of their paychecks to support retirees, many of
>whom (they would notice) were living quite comfortably.
>Because the dangers are so obvious, we ought to be
>minimizing them now. We ought to redefine the
>generational compact to lighten -- somewhat -- the
>burden of an aging population on workers. The needed
>steps are clear: to acknowledge longer life expectancies
>by slowly raising eligibility ages for Social Security and
>Medicare; to limit future spending by curbing retirement
>benefits for the better-off; to keep people in the
>productive economy longer by encouraging jobs that mix
>"work" and "retirement."
>
>All advanced societies face a similar problem: how to
>support more retirees with (relatively) fewer workers. But
>we won't engage it. Politicians, the media and public
>"intellectuals" of all political stripes refuse to acknowledge
>generational conflicts and the need to make choices,
>some possibly unpopular. Let someone else make them,
>years from now when (of course) they will be much tougher.
>.
>.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 8:18 pm
From: "(David P.)"

josejar...@ssnet.net wrote:
> "Saving" Social Security: A Neoliberal Recapitulation of
> Primitive Accumulation, by Alan G. Nasser
>
> http://monthlyreview.org/1200nass.htm

Social Security will work just fine, in perpetuity,
as long as we institute limited longevity!
.
.
--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: thrift finds
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3197a4fb4f662174?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 3:21 pm
From: tmclone@searchmachine.com

On Feb 18, 11:19 am, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> tmcl...@searchmachine.com wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 4:12 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> >> Yesterday I found an IBM PS2 keyboard with the wonderful clickety clack
> >> sounding keys for $1.
>
> >> What have you found lately?
>
> > God, how much did I hate you IBM bastards when I worked in the cube
> > farm? A lot. A whole lot. What's up with actually LIKING, and WANTING
> > your keyboard to make noise? The rest of us just wanted to work in
> > silence. I'm so glad I don't have to listen to that crap now that I'm
> > self-employed and working at home.
>
> You're just pissed because it used to be easy for the boss to tell who was
> working and who wasn't!
>

Really? No. I was in the graphics dept. working on the animation of
point of sale and atm transactions and updating the corporate website.
Think light pen, not keyboard. I had to listen to the clickety clack
of the drones all day long who weren't actually working, just email
baby shower invites to each other. How much do I not miss working with
clacking breeders who gossip the whole day? Not at all. Oh, and I ran
my dept., and you certainly don't need to hear a keyboard clicking to
know who's working.

Plonk.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 4:56 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Feb 17, 5:50 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seerialmom wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 1:12 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> >> Yesterday I found a copy of Panzer General II for 60 cents. Today I
> >> got a Sound Blaster Live sound card for $1, Nvidia Geforce 2 AGP video
> >> card for $2 and an IBM PS2 keyboard with the wonderful clickety clack
> >> sounding keys for $1.
>
> >> What have you found lately?
>
> > A Logitech wireless mouse for $3 and "Plus!" for XP for $5 (ok, could
> > have lived without Plus! but I wanted it).
>
> > Speaking of thrift stores, Goodwill had 50% off all used items (but
> > not the dollar store items they sell or the things they buy from some
> > 3rd party and designated by pink stickers) on holidays. Yesterday I
> > went into the local Goodwill and you'd swear people had never seen
> > such "low prices" before. They were willing to stand in a 100+ person
> > line to get 1/2 price on used stuff??? We're talking a 1.5 hour wait
> > to get to the checkout? No way...nothing that good in there for me.
>
> Crazy people around here stand in line at estate sales in desirable
> neighborhoods. Two come out, two more go in. As I say, crazy.
>
> One of my better (useful) yard sale bargains so far is my skis+boots for $5
> total. If you knew about my feet you'd know the boots are the bigger miracle!
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
> difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
> mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it."
> --Gene Spafford (1992)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Estate sales are my other "used item pet peeve". They'll sell the
same Pyrex mixing bowl I can find at Goodwill or garage sale less than
$3 for upwards for $20. So far I'm not a fan of those (or antique
stores).

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 4:57 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Feb 18, 8:19 am, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> tmcl...@searchmachine.com wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 4:12 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> >> Yesterday I found an IBM PS2 keyboard with the wonderful clickety clack
> >> sounding keys for $1.
>
> >> What have you found lately?
>
> > God, how much did I hate you IBM bastards when I worked in the cube
> > farm? A lot. A whole lot. What's up with actually LIKING, and WANTING
> > your keyboard to make noise? The rest of us just wanted to work in
> > silence. I'm so glad I don't have to listen to that crap now that I'm
> > self-employed and working at home.
>
> You're just pissed because it used to be easy for the boss to tell who was
> working and who wasn't!
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> ====================================================================
> Paranoid schizophrenics outnumber their enemies at least two to one.

Hah....but now we have programs that can make it sound like we're
typing away when we're not, right? :)

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 6:32 pm
From: The Real Bev

Seerialmom wrote:

> On Feb 18, 8:19 am, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> tmcl...@searchmachine.com wrote:
>> > On Feb 11, 4:12 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>> >> Yesterday I found an IBM PS2 keyboard with the wonderful clickety clack
>> >> sounding keys for $1.
>>
>> >> What have you found lately?
>>
>> > God, how much did I hate you IBM bastards when I worked in the cube
>> > farm? A lot. A whole lot. What's up with actually LIKING, and WANTING
>> > your keyboard to make noise? The rest of us just wanted to work in
>> > silence. I'm so glad I don't have to listen to that crap now that I'm
>> > self-employed and working at home.
>>
>> You're just pissed because it used to be easy for the boss to tell who was
>> working and who wasn't!
>
> Hah....but now we have programs that can make it sound like we're
> typing away when we're not, right? :)

Damned if I know, I retired in 1995!

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
is not thus handicapped."
-- Elbert Hubbard, American author

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Beat a Foreclosure,?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b1232feef201bad?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 3:28 pm
From: Devo

Home owners try this new strategy .
Persuade a judge to compel production of hard to find or nonexistent
mortgage document can at the very least delay foreclosure, buying the
homeowner some time and turning up the pressure on the lender to
renegotiate the mortgage.
ask the lender. "Show me the Note"
--
--
It's amazing what you can do. If...
you put your mind to it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 4:23 pm
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article
<georgewkspam-86BC38.15282318022009@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
Devo <georgewkspam@humboldt1.com> wrote:

> Home owners try this new strategy .
> Persuade a judge to compel production of hard to find or nonexistent
> mortgage document can at the very least delay foreclosure, buying the
> homeowner some time and turning up the pressure on the lender to
> renegotiate the mortgage.
> ask the lender. "Show me the Note"

Isn't the note recorded with the county in your area? Here in
MN, it would take just minutes at the courthouse to produce
that document. And if the mortgage company gets a deficiency
judgement against you, you end up paying the legal costs for
this bonehead move.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

==============================================================================
TOPIC: need a small, inexpensive urban TV antenna
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22d545ae9e8cb014?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 3:41 pm
From: Gordon

"John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> wrote in news:john-
210994.18253816022009@news-1.octanews.net:

> In article <Xns9BB49C3789E58greederxprtnet@85.214.105.209>,
> Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>
>> As I have mentioned before, I am having good luck with a
>> pair of Bowties mounted on a dowel. My total cost was
>> less than $15.00, including the matching transformer.
>
> That will work. You can make it work even better by putting
> a chunk of metal screen about 6 inches behind the bowties.
> That will make it much more directional, so it will reach
> out much further in the direction 90 degrees from the plane
> of the bowties.
>
> -john-
>

Trying to get a good mounting for the screen would be
a problem with this particualar setup. I would have had
to take the reflector into account right from the start.
So, I am aware of the advantages of the reflector, but
I'm not going to mess with it. Someone else may find
a reflector screen useful, tho.

Another option would be to add more bowties. Channel
Master makes an antenna with 4 dipoles and a reflector.
I understand that it is very popular. Certianly a DIY
could create a reasonable copy with four bowties and a
screen.

In my case, I went from Rabbit Ears, to loop, to bowtie
to dual Bowties, with better results at each step. When
I got to the dual bowties, I was pleased enough with the
results that I decided I didn't need to proceed any further
(to quad bowties, then reflector). If bowties didn't work
out, I was going to proceed with Yagi's and Log-periodic
antennas.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV converters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e46bdc878c0fe848?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 4:13 pm
From: clams_casino

Jeff wrote:

> Just got my DTV converter coupons and am search of a converter.
>
>

If I recall correctly, someone on this newsgroup posted a link to a
site that would show the digital channels available in a zip code.

Anyone have that link?.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's all falling apart, isn't it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aaee75672b67549f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 5:48 pm
From: Harold Burton

In article <gng4lf$sl6$1@aioe.org>, "gator" <gator@comcast.net> wrote:

> "Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hal.i.burton-092A0F.22275117022009@news.newsguy.com...
> > In article <nridnfofLq2D4wbUnZ2dnUVZ_tfinZ2d@posted.visi>,
> > Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Harold Burton wrote:
> >> > Right, before DemocRAT Johnson changed the rules. Bet the
> >> > Obama-lama-ding-dong appreciates that.
> >>
> >> Wow, the intellectual level of Republicans continues to astound us.
> >> No wonder they gave us a depression.
> >
> >
> > But you couldn't actually dispute the accuracy of the claim.
> >
> >
> what accuracy shithead ?

the part you edited out.

Snicker.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 5:50 pm
From: Harold Burton

In article
<8822ef0e-ed15-44b2-bffc-2198990c2f53@m2g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
Cindy Hamilton <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Feb 17, 9:46 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Right, before DemocRAT Johnson changed the rules. Bet the
> > Obama-lama-ding-dong appreciates that.
>
> You undermine the validity of your position by resorting to junior-
> high insults.

Which makes me different for all the lefturds posting, how?

I notice you chose to dodge the question. Good idea.

Snicker.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BEWARE!!! If You're a Homeowner In Northern Virginia -- AVOID AAA
Recycling & Trash Removal "Services"!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8d361aee27bc7f00?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 7:57 pm
From: Bob@nomail.com

On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 08:31:40 -0800 (PST), "Ol' Grand Bag"
<perryneheum@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Poor and unethical service!
>
>If you sign up with these people you'll find:
>
>1) They skip scheduled pickups without batting an eye. And you're
>still billed for the missed pickup. Non-negotiable.
>
>2) If you want to cancel "service" they charge you $45 to pick up
>THEIR trash receptacles, regardless of condition! (Check their fine
>print.) And because AAA will not give a receipt for the receptacle at
>pickup, there is nothing to stop them from billing you $100 for an
>"unreturned" or lost receptacle.
>
>These underhanded billing procedures serve as CANCELLATION CHARGES!
>AAA is the only trash company that does this.
>
>I have established a case with the Better Business Bureau of Metro
>Washington, D.C. and Eastern Pennsylvania to dispute the $45 charge.
>But AAA has a lengthy list of complaints with the BBB, so arbitration
>might take a while.
>
>Check out other customer complaints against AAA:
>
>http://www.insiderpages.com/b/3723041244
>
>
>Meanwhile ...
>
>BEWARE AAA Recycling & Trash Removal

Yes, you are very correct.

We had AAA years ago and they are terrible. They don't pick up the
trash sometimes. Are arbitrary about what they will pick up.
Sometimes will take yard waste and sometimes they won't. Sometimes
things like tree branches must be tied together and other times must
not be tied. They are arrogant as h***.

I dumped them and got BFI and had hard time getting AAA to pick up
their bin and recycle box. They finally picked the things up and then
tried to charge me for them saying they did not get them. They also
sent bills for several months saying we did not cancel the service
correctly????

Then AAA bought BFI and again we were stuck with AAA's bad service.

A friend recommended New Vision Services and we have been delighted
for several years. New Vision is a local company and you get a human
when you call and they will take care of any problems. I'd recommend
New Vision to anybody looking for good service if they work in your
area. Look them up in phone book.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Answers To Questions And Very Cheap Online Research Service
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d04ff738b502905b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 7:57 pm
From: lukkyr

You will like this new online question and answer search community,
Weegy. Experts answer questions free via an online chat. Weegy also
has a search engine. If you need help shopping online, Weegy will find
things for you. You join Weegy free and ask questions and get free
answers. You can also pay for research and some answers. Membership
is free. You can ask Experts questions about shopping and websites.
They can find products for you.

http://www.Weegy.com?r=7050CE82

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Composter
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/24a04d452c00fd25?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 18 2009 8:24 pm
From: Bob@nomail.com

On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:21:42 -0800 (PST), artsy6@gmail.com wrote:

>Do you have a favorite?

Just find a corner in back yard and pile it up and turn over with
pitchfork every week or so. I've been doing it for years and always
have lots of worms for fishing and everything will break down. The
best mix is 1/3 green mix such as kitchen waste and grass clippings
and 2/3 brown such as leaves, paper and such. I add in shredded
newspaper, paper towels, and anything else that will decompose.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 8 new messages in 4 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Doorbell, etc. - Saving $2.50 per month! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f28ae8d29331218e?hl=en
* NPR's "On Point": Today's episode was "Cheapskates" - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/61f5bf0e87fd8b35?hl=en
* Is there a downloadable free tax software? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3a172c8ae95479e1?hl=en
* thrift finds - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3197a4fb4f662174?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doorbell, etc. - Saving $2.50 per month!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f28ae8d29331218e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 7:44 pm
From: aemeijers

hallerb@aol.com wrote:
> On Feb 17, 12:37�pm, albun...@mailinator.com wrote:
>> On Feb 16, 8:51 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> In <G5Sdnbs7duN5awXUnZ2dnUVZ_hmdn...@posted.localnet>, John Gilmer wrote:
>>>> "Tony Hwang" <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:gJXll.7267$EO2.2469@newsfe04.iad...
>>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> My electricity costs 7 cents per KWh locked for 5 years. What if you keep
>>>>> powering up/down multiple devices and a surge cause a damage. The repair
>>>>> cost may far exceed the 2.00 per month. If I wanted to save electric
>>>>> energy my way would be using more efficient devices or minimize the usage
>>>>> by careful planning ahead.
>>>> What? � Are you talking about the "surge" when you first power up something?
>>>> Could be.
>>>> $30/year for the convenience of having everything ready to go rather than
>>>> requiring the hunting down of power strips here and there isn't much.
>>>> Seems to me that the "standby" power performance is getting better. � I say
>>>> than only because stuff in "standby" seems to be running cooler.
>>> � First time I got a cell phone, maybe 8-9 years ago, the wallwart for
>>> charging it was an iron core one. �Since then I had cellphones with
>>> switchmode charging wallwarts that ran cooler and probably consumed about
>>> 1 watt, possibly 1.5 watts less electricity apiece.
>>> � It appears to me that one major reason behind switchmode cell phone
>>> chargers was that they can be made narrow enough to not block adjacent
>>> outlets on a power strip.
>>> �- Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
>> I have many of those larger transformers for things too. I made a
>> bunch of �short cords from old discarded devices to use as extensions
>> to the outlet. In some cases, I soldered the wires directly to the
>> plugs of the transformer and �insulated them well for safety. I don't
>> care about ever plugging those devices directly anyway so the
>> modification is a permanent fix.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I bought the cheap home depot extension cords, made for lighting but
> fine for transformers, cut off all but a foot of cord, left the
> receptable and installed a new plug.
>
> they are two prong but accomodate 3 things. decluttered the wiring
> mess a lot
A couple of my plug strips have the outlets at 90 degrees, spaced far
enough apart that you can put a wall wart at each position. Looks like a
bunch of little pigs at a trough, tails hanging out.

--
aem sends...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NPR's "On Point": Today's episode was "Cheapskates"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/61f5bf0e87fd8b35?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 7:48 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2009/02/cheapskates/

Guests (this includes four links besides the 1-hour interview itself)

"Joining us from New York is Neal Templin, personal finance editor of
The Wall Street Journal. He writes the Journal's weekly Cheapskate
column.

"From Essex County, N.J., is Clarissa Templin, Neal Templin's wife,
the long-suffering spouse of a cheapskate.

"And from Philadelphia, we're joined by Scott Rick, a post-doctoral
fellow and lecturer at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton
School. He's co-author of the paper 'Tightwads and Spendthrifts,'
examining the emotional and neural underpinnings of spending money.
See also, 'Are You a Tightwad or a Spendthrift? And What Does This
Mean for Retailers?,' an article from Wharton School Publishing on
Rick's work, and the spendthrift-tightwad scale he developed with
colleagues to measure 'individual differences in the pain of paying.'
"

(You might want to listen before reading the comments.)

One remark I definitely sympathized with was from those who say they
roll their eyes whenever they hear people say things like "yes, we're
cutting back. We don't go to restaurants half as much anymore." After
all, so many frugal types haven't been eating out for years!

Lenona.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 8:27 pm
From: BigDog1

On Feb 17, 8:48 pm, lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/2009/02/cheapskates/
>
> Guests (this includes four links besides the 1-hour interview itself)
>
> "Joining us from New York is Neal Templin, personal finance editor of
> The Wall Street Journal. He writes the Journal's weekly Cheapskate
> column.
>
> "From Essex County, N.J., is Clarissa Templin, Neal Templin's wife,
> the long-suffering spouse of a cheapskate.
>
> "And from Philadelphia, we're joined by Scott Rick, a post-doctoral
> fellow and lecturer at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton
> School. He's co-author of the paper 'Tightwads and Spendthrifts,'
> examining the emotional and neural underpinnings of spending money.
> See also, 'Are You a Tightwad or a Spendthrift? And What Does This
> Mean for Retailers?,' an article from Wharton School Publishing on
> Rick's work, and the spendthrift-tightwad scale he developed with
> colleagues to measure 'individual differences in the pain of paying.'
> "
>
> (You might want to listen before reading the comments.)
>
> One remark I definitely sympathized with was from those who say they
> roll their eyes whenever they hear people say things like "yes, we're
> cutting back. We don't go to restaurants half as much anymore." After
> all, so many frugal types haven't been eating out for years!
>
> Lenona.

Not necessarily. My wife and I are extraordinarily frugal in how we
run our household, and live our lives day to day. But we dine out at
a fine restaurant at least once a month. We also attend the theater
and concerts several times a year (good seats - lower orchestra, as
close to front row center as we can get), and we have season tickets
for our NFL franchise. The current economic situation won't change
that a bit.

What's the point of saving all that money if you don't spend some of
it enjoying some of the finer things in life? You can't take it with
you! Our heirs can get theirs the same way we did - hard work, sound
investment, and thrift.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 8:42 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

On Feb 17, 11:27 pm, BigDog1 <bigdog...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not necessarily. My wife and I are extraordinarily frugal in how we
> run our household, and live our lives day to day. But we dine out at
> a fine restaurant at least once a month. We also attend the theater
> and concerts several times a year (good seats - lower orchestra, as
> close to front row center as we can get), and we have season tickets
> for our NFL franchise. The current economic situation won't change
> that a bit.
>
> What's the point of saving all that money if you don't spend some of
> it enjoying some of the finer things in life? You can't take it with
> you! Our heirs can get theirs the same way we did - hard work, sound
> investment, and thrift.

Well yes, one of the guests did point out that even tightwads tend to
have at least one favorite luxury and they spend money on it
regularly. Just not a lot of luxuries.

Lenona.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 8:24 pm
From: James

The free tax software I've seen so far are online programs. I'm
looking for one I could use without sending my info online to who know
where.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 9:23 pm
From: The Real Bev

James wrote:

> The free tax software I've seen so far are online programs. I'm
> looking for one I could use without sending my info online to who know
> where.

Does your brokerage offer on-line tax prep? If you trust them to keep your
investments I would think they are sufficiently trustworthy to keep your tax
info safe, especially if $25 or so for softare is undesirable.

I usually use TurboTax, but this year I switched to TaxCut -- way cheaper when
the only thing I need the expensive TT version for is a single Schedule C.
Besides, I'm pissed that TT gives its loyal customers a worse price than they
can get off the shelf at Staples/OfficeDepot, etc.

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity
is not thus handicapped."
-- Elbert Hubbard, American author

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 10:53 pm
From: Dave Garland

James wrote:
> The free tax software I've seen so far are online programs. I'm
> looking for one I could use without sending my info online to who know
> where.

USA?

http://www.taxact.com/

They also do online, and will try to sell you a state program (their
downloadable one is federal only). The fancy advisor stuff is only
with their pay program. But the free program is pretty decent.

I'm self-employed (so my return is a bit more complicated than the
average wage-earner) and I've been using them for (maybe 10) years.
Just if you've got questions about "what does that mean?" be prepared
to google for the answer.

Dave

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 17 2009 11:12 pm
From: tmclone@searchmachine.com

On Feb 11, 4:12 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> Yesterday I found an IBM PS2 keyboard with the wonderful clickety clack
> sounding keys for $1.
>
> What have you found lately?

God, how much did I hate you IBM bastards when I worked in the cube
farm? A lot. A whole lot. What's up with actually LIKING, and WANTING
your keyboard to make noise? The rest of us just wanted to work in
silence. I'm so glad I don't have to listen to that crap now that I'm
self-employed and working at home.