Frugal Living: Jul 12, 2008

Saturday, July 12, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: You are not frugal if......
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3c5261ec65743940?hl=en
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== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 11:14 pm
From: Gordon

"Bay Area Holdout" <Linear54@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:t3Qdk.14112$89.6824@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:

> I'll add one.......
>
> You are not frugal if you stay at motels and don't use a AAA or AARP
> or other card for discounts AND don't use the brands travel card for
> points(sometimes you get free papers and room upgrades too) for free
> rooms or cash cards for gas or resturants.
>
>

Last time I travaled across country I was able to get some great
discounts just by asking for them. Usually I motel will quote the
"rack rate" if you just walk up and ask. Your next question should
be "Are you offering any discounts tonight?". That usually got me
the AAA rate.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 7:42 am
From: George Grapman

Gordon wrote:
> "Bay Area Holdout" <Linear54@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:t3Qdk.14112$89.6824@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
>> I'll add one.......
>>
>> You are not frugal if you stay at motels and don't use a AAA or AARP
>> or other card for discounts AND don't use the brands travel card for
>> points(sometimes you get free papers and room upgrades too) for free
>> rooms or cash cards for gas or resturants.
>>
>>
>
> Last time I travaled across country I was able to get some great
> discounts just by asking for them. Usually I motel will quote the
> "rack rate" if you just walk up and ask. Your next question should
> be "Are you offering any discounts tonight?". That usually got me
> the AAA rate.
I do a similar thing but after getting the rack rate I ask what the
corporate rate is. Once every few years they actually ask for a business
card.
If you are dealing with an owner/manager ,are not overly tired , you
know there are other motels in the area and the quoted price is too high
simply say,thank you" and walk out. Many times you will hear,"wait",
followed by explanations of forgot we had a cancellation/have a smaller
room/are you paying cash?

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 10:10 am
From: Dennis

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:23:41 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

> I wonder if you can tell how much ethanol a particular gas has.
>Ethanol has a lower energy content and 10% Ethanol gives about 3% less
>mileage.

I see about a 5% reduction in mileage on 10% ethanol. 1998 Toyota
Corolla, 1.8L, manual transmission, ~80/20 highway/city.

Dennis (evil)
--
What government gives, it must first take away.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 11:48 am
From: unow@example.com

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:10:13 -0700, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Dennis
<dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:23:41 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>
>> I wonder if you can tell how much ethanol a particular gas has.
>>Ethanol has a lower energy content and 10% Ethanol gives about 3% less
>>mileage.
>
>I see about a 5% reduction in mileage on 10% ethanol. 1998 Toyota
>Corolla, 1.8L, manual transmission, ~80/20 highway/city.
>
>
>Dennis (evil)

I think everything in some states is 10% ethonol now.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 12:55 pm
From: Dennis

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:48:33 -0700, unow@example.com wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:10:13 -0700, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Dennis
><dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:23:41 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if you can tell how much ethanol a particular gas has.
>>>Ethanol has a lower energy content and 10% Ethanol gives about 3% less
>>>mileage.
>>
>>I see about a 5% reduction in mileage on 10% ethanol. 1998 Toyota
>>Corolla, 1.8L, manual transmission, ~80/20 highway/city.
>>
>>
>>Dennis (evil)
>
>
>I think everything in some states is 10% ethonol now.

It was just mandated for my area at the beginning of this year, so I
have pretty good before and after data to compare.

Dennis (evil)
--
What government gives, it must first take away.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 2:04 pm
From: unow@example.com

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:55:35 -0700, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Dennis
<dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:48:33 -0700, unow@example.com wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:10:13 -0700, in misc.consumers.frugal-living Dennis
>><dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:23:41 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder if you can tell how much ethanol a particular gas has.
>>>>Ethanol has a lower energy content and 10% Ethanol gives about 3% less
>>>>mileage.
>>>
>>>I see about a 5% reduction in mileage on 10% ethanol. 1998 Toyota
>>>Corolla, 1.8L, manual transmission, ~80/20 highway/city.
>>>
>>>
>>>Dennis (evil)
>>
>>
>>I think everything in some states is 10% ethanol now.
>
>It was just mandated for my area at the beginning of this year, so I
>have pretty good before and after data to compare.
>
>
>Dennis (evil)

In actuality ethanol causes even more pollution then fossil fuel and it makes
food more expensive. ONly a good deal if you are a big agribusiness owner.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 2:30 pm
From: clams_casino

unow@example.com wrote:

>
>
>
>In actuality ethanol causes even more pollution then fossil fuel and it makes
>food more expensive. ONly a good deal if you are a big agribusiness owner.
>
>

While there is no doubt that the highly subsidized ethanol from corn has
greatly enriched Archer Daniels Midland's coffers, the overall increased
price of corn has many many farmers, at the expense of most everyone
else. I question if ADM would even exist if it wasn't for their
enormous corporate welfare. Their whole existence is based on
government subsidies that essentially started with their heavy financing
of lobbying efforts that led to the blatantly projectionist sugar-quota
system that went into effect in 1982 and has held sway ever since.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving high heating oil prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a184bef53e828bc7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 5:07 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

>> >... The reflective barrier will not keep heat in; zero R value.
>> >It will *reflect* IR radiation and is useful in areas with
>> >lots of sun, but it adds zero to the R value.
>>
>> Wrong.
>
>Not wrong. Foil does nothing to "resist" the conduction of heat
>therefor has no "R" value. It will REFLECT radiated heat, but do
>ZERO for conducted heat.

With an air gap, the foil adds a real R-value.

Nick

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 6:32 am
From: krw

In article <g5a6po$jf6@acadia.ece.villanova.edu>,
nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu says...
> krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
>
> >> >... The reflective barrier will not keep heat in; zero R value.
> >> >It will *reflect* IR radiation and is useful in areas with
> >> >lots of sun, but it adds zero to the R value.
> >>
> >> Wrong.
> >
> >Not wrong. Foil does nothing to "resist" the conduction of heat
> >therefor has no "R" value. It will REFLECT radiated heat, but do
> >ZERO for conducted heat.
>
> With an air gap, the foil adds a real R-value.

Nonsense. The air gap adds R-value. The foil adds nothing to the
heat conduction. Foils is METAL, which is a CONDUCTOR.

--
Keith

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 1:53 pm
From: Stan Brown

Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:32:50 -0400 from krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz>:
> In article <g5a6po$jf6@acadia.ece.villanova.edu>,
> nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu says...
> > With an air gap, the foil adds a real R-value.
>
> Nonsense. The air gap adds R-value. The foil adds nothing to the
> heat conduction. Foils is METAL, which is a CONDUCTOR.

Is it possible that it adds indirectly, by serving as a vapor barrier
so that the outward space stays drier and this is a better insulator?

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA

http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 4:15 pm
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

>The air gap adds R-value. The foil adds nothing to the
>heat conduction. Foils is METAL, which is a CONDUCTOR.

Foils ARE metal... :-)

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: i feel soo sad!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d1dc6a245c3380b7?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 5:53 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rod Speed, ye dissembling publican, let's meet as little as we can, ye
blew out:

> There's nothing odd about a person my age pursuing an attractive and
> mature 15-year old!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 5:54 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rod Speed, ye raw-boned pigeon-liver, your peevish chastity is not worth
a breakfast in the cheapest country, ye slobbered:

> I was having sex last night and the condom got stuck inside me, the
> whole thing but i can't even feel it, what should i do?, is it going
> to come out on its own? btw, I am gay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The dr says I have irritable bowel syndrome
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/492a471c6c732495?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 5:54 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rod Speed, ye parasite-infested dimunitive of nature, thou dost over
ween in all, ye cried:

> I like to urinate in public.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 5:54 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Rod Speed, ye unconscious crab-tree, o, were mine eye bans into bullets
turned, that in a rage I might shoot them at your face, ye harassed:

> Don't judge a book by its movie.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dirty, taco-bender picked crops BANNED! Salmonella!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/abba3f29fd8896ff?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 7:37 am
From: Jack

On Jul 7, 7:20 pm, billimmel...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 4, 9:22 pm, "Do the World a favour, kill a leftist"
>
>
>
> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > See, you FILTHY Mexicans? You have to wash your hands (or at least
> > use toilet paper) after using that hole in the ground to relieve
> > yourselves. Did you Americans know that Mexicans often use human
> > feces to fertilize crops??!
>
> > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Starting Monday, health inspectors will halt the
> > shipment of ingredients common to Mexican cuisine from Mexico to the
> > United States, sources familiar with the salmonella poisoning
> > investigation said.
> > Since April, more than 900 people have contracted the same strain of
> > salmonella, but its source is unclear.
>
> > Since April, more than 900 people have contracted the same strain of
> > salmonella, but its source is unclear.
>
> > The inquiry, which initially focused solely on tomatoes, has expanded
> > to include cilantro, jalapeño peppers, Serrano peppers, scallions and
> > bulb onions, said Tommy Thompson, former secretary of the Department
> > of Health and Human Services, who said he has been informed of the
> > plan.
>
> Deport all illegal aliens. Bring back the family farm.
>
> http://www,numbersusa.com/ NumbersUSA
>
> bill

It would be great if we could return to the family farm but that will
only come into being if we go into a dictatorship government. AND we
have the right kind of dictator. The odds are great.
It will not happen but this country needs to can all politicians and
put STATESMEN in Washington, but they are a rare creature theses
days.. You start by NEVER reelecting any office holder, no matter who
or what they are period. Reelecting has created the mess of politics
we have now.

Another item which for the good of mankind, in the long run, is forbid
the hybridizing, cloning or use of hormones in anything in the food
chain. Today most of your food does not have the flavorful taste that
in nature it is suppose to have.
But until the public refuses to buy the crap, the greedy growers and
distrubutors are going to shove it on the market. MY suggeston is
refuse to buy it. Let it rot on their shelves. This practice of
artificial ripening of fruits in order to sell them is for the
BIRDS. WAKE up CUSTOMER and reclaim your right to good tasteing food.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 12:38 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jack <tinacci3@themacisp.net> wrote:
> On Jul 7, 7:20 pm, billimmel...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Jul 4, 9:22 pm, "Do the World a favour, kill a leftist"
>>
>>
>>
>> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> See, you FILTHY Mexicans? You have to wash your hands (or at least
>>> use toilet paper) after using that hole in the ground to relieve
>>> yourselves. Did you Americans know that Mexicans often use human
>>> feces to fertilize crops??!
>>
>>> WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Starting Monday, health inspectors will halt the
>>> shipment of ingredients common to Mexican cuisine from Mexico to the
>>> United States, sources familiar with the salmonella poisoning
>>> investigation said.
>>> Since April, more than 900 people have contracted the same strain of
>>> salmonella, but its source is unclear.
>>
>>> Since April, more than 900 people have contracted the same strain of
>>> salmonella, but its source is unclear.
>>
>>> The inquiry, which initially focused solely on tomatoes, has
>>> expanded to include cilantro, jalapeño peppers, Serrano peppers,
>>> scallions and bulb onions, said Tommy Thompson, former secretary of
>>> the Department of Health and Human Services, who said he has been
>>> informed of the plan.
>>
>> Deport all illegal aliens. Bring back the family farm.
>>
>> http://www,numbersusa.com/ NumbersUSA

> It would be great if we could return to the family farm

Nope, the world has moved on.

> but that will only come into being if we go into a dictatorship government.
> AND we have the right kind of dictator.

Wouldnt even happen then, its just not possible anymore.

> The odds are great.

Impossible, actually.

Even the odds of any dictator are impossible in any of the great democracys now.

> It will not happen but this country needs to can all politicians and put
> STATESMEN in Washington, but they are a rare creature theses days..

They always were and the modern political system makes them even rarer.

> You start by NEVER reelecting any office holder, no matter who or what
> they are period. Reelecting has created the mess of politics we have now.

And no reelecting would make things MUCH worse when statesmen are so rare.

> Another item which for the good of mankind, in the long run, is forbid
> the hybridizing, cloning or use of hormones in anything in the food chain.

Wrong. Its plant and animal breeding that got us past being hunters and gatherers
at the mercy of the weather and climate change and allowed specialists etc, let
alone the industrial revolution, magnificant advances in science and medicine etc.

> Today most of your food does not have the flavorful taste that in nature it is suppose to have.

There's plenty still breeding food that leaves food thats optimised
for long shelf life and easy transportation for dead. Nothing to
stop you growing the old flavorful varietys if thats what you prefer
or paying the significantly higher cost for others to grow it for you.

> But until the public refuses to buy the crap,

Taint gunna happen, far to many cant afford the much more expensive older varietys.

> the greedy growers and distrubutors are going to shove it on the market.

They market what is bought.

> MY suggeston is refuse to buy it. Let it rot on their shelves.

It wont, because plenty cant afford the much more expensive older varietys.

> This practice of artificial ripening of fruits in order to sell them is for the BIRDS.

Its what has allowed cheap food independantly of the season.

> WAKE up CUSTOMER and reclaim your right to good tasteing food.

No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy what you dont like.

If they are, call the cops.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 2:11 pm
From: "Kswck"

"Jack" <tinacci3@themacisp.net> wrote in message
news:102a4792-34f0-4c53-b94b-249aea51bc37@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 7, 7:20 pm, billimmel...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 4, 9:22 pm, "Do the World a favour, kill a leftist"
>
>
>
> <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > See, you FILTHY Mexicans? You have to wash your hands (or at least
> > use toilet paper) after using that hole in the ground to relieve
> > yourselves. Did you Americans know that Mexicans often use human
> > feces to fertilize crops??!
>
> > WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Starting Monday, health inspectors will halt the
> > shipment of ingredients common to Mexican cuisine from Mexico to the
> > United States, sources familiar with the salmonella poisoning
> > investigation said.
> > Since April, more than 900 people have contracted the same strain of
> > salmonella, but its source is unclear.
>
> > Since April, more than 900 people have contracted the same strain of
> > salmonella, but its source is unclear.
>
> > The inquiry, which initially focused solely on tomatoes, has expanded
> > to include cilantro, jalapeño peppers, Serrano peppers, scallions and
> > bulb onions, said Tommy Thompson, former secretary of the Department
> > of Health and Human Services, who said he has been informed of the
> > plan.
>
> Deport all illegal aliens. Bring back the family farm.
>
> http://www,numbersusa.com/ NumbersUSA
>
> bill

And for those in the NorthCentral and NorthWest and NorthEast who want
veggies that don't grow in snow?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The chickens have arrived
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1b34814faaccbf44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 9:35 am
From: Dennis

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 07:41:12 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:16:12 -0500, barbie gee <booger@nosespam.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, 9 Jul 2008, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> These aren't your grandfather's chickens. I remember chasing chickens
>>> when I was only a little larger than them. These aren't what I
>>> remember. They get pooped after running for a few feet, they can't
>>> fly more than six inches off the ground, and they huddle when
>>> stressed.
>>
>>I'll bet within 6 weeks they'll be much stronger and spunkier, once given
>>a little room to move.
>
>I think it is more the breeding. The broiler house they came from is
>huge, about a football field and a half long, and I'd guess about
>seventy feet wide. The chickens had free run of that entire space.

Yep, some of the meat breeds put on so much weight so fast that their
legs can barely support them. They just sit most of the time,
especially if they have feed available without effort.

How's the chicken tractor project coming? My wife recently
commissioned me to build a new one for one of her flocks. She wanted
something simple and light enough for her and the kids to move easily.
I screwed together a couple of 2x2 triangles, 4ft on a side, for the
ends, then connected the points of the triangles with three 8ft 2x2s.
Two more 12ft 2x2s attach at middle of the upper sides of the
triangles to add support and extend past the ends to make carrying
handles. Then we covered the sides and one end with chicken wire. I
covered the other end with plywood scraps, hinged for a door.
Finally, we wrapped a heavy blue tarp across one half to make a
sun/rain shelter and added a few foraged tree branches across the mid
(carry handle) 2x2s for roosts.

Cheap, lightweight, easy to build and to move. The clucks seem to
like it.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 9:54 am
From: Dennis

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 20:40:35 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 15:14:08 -0700 (PDT), Seerialmom
><seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jul 11, 7:16?am, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 22:00:45 -0500, barbie gee <boo...@nosespam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >On Thu, 10 Jul 2008, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> >> I've been constructing a chicken tractor today. ?This first one is
>>> >> taking a surprising amount of time to design and build, since I'm
>>> >> partly working out design issues as I build, and I've been doing lap
>>> >> joints without the proper tools. ?I'm trying to keep construction
>>> >> materials cost as low as possible without resorting to scrap wood. ?I
>>> >> have hopes that I'll be able to make up a set of plans, or even market
>>> >> kits or complete units to folks in the general area.
>>>
>>> >so what's a chicken tractor, anyway?
>>>
>>> We make chickens work out here. ?I want to have them haying by fall.
>>>
>>> Think cage and housing without floor. ?Instead of moving the buildup
>>> of poop and litter, you move the cage. ?Within a short period, the
>>> land is just a little more fertile, and the chickens have fresh
>>> pickins.
>>
>>So basically you're saying you have a rolling fertilizer machine?
>
>More like a combination tiller fertilizer machine. Chickens dig into
>the ground for nutritious snacks and to create dust baths. They are
>looking a little cleaner today because of their dusting themselves.
>They also eat like pigs.

I built one of our early chicken tractors out of pvc pipe and chicken
wire (think hoop house) such that it would fit nicely on top of the
4x8ft raised beds in our garden. Put a couple of chickens in one in
the spring and the raised bed is scratched up and fertilized in a week
or two. A few easy turns with a fork and it's ready to plant.

>I filled up two trays this morning and gave some scratch, and I had to
>do the same this evening. I've also got to make a stand for their
>water. They manage to poop in it somehow.

Clucks are poop machines. If they can get near it, they will poop
in/on it. Putting the waterer on a short stand will help prevent them
from scratching feed and debris into it.

>Two of the big ones will be going to freezer camp in a couple of days.
>One has a leg problem, and the other is overly aggressive. That
>should take some pressure off the underachievers and slow the feed
>inhalation just a bit.

Here is a butchering method that we tried with some success (skinning
rather than plucking):

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/grim79.html

No plucking, no gutting, pretty quick and easy. You only give up a
tiny amound of meat on the back/ribs. Depends on how much you like
that crispy skin on your drumsticks.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: garden fence at right-angle to house
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b96aa4904acd922?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 10:23 am
From: AJH

On 8 Jul, 07:41, "john westmore" <blues...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> We wish to straighten and 'position correctly' the garden fence that we
> share with a neighbour in an adjoining terraced house.
>
> What is the best way to get the fence at exactly right angles to our houses?
> The garden is about twenty metres long. Thanks for advice.

You have gone very quiet John.
What do you think so far then ?!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you track finances online?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d633520836dcf5d6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 11:27 am
From: val189

On Jul 9, 7:12 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> I've been reading rave review abt this service
>
> Wary abt giving my account info tho
>
> Anyone be ok with doing it?
>
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2321082,00.asp

Oh sure - I'm going to let a third party in on my financial matters?
No WAY - Quicken has been my friend for years.

I'd go back to a paper and pencil system before I'd go with this
outfit.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Spacing Trips to the Grocery Store?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9e5316c7228e6cd4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 1:09 pm
From: Jonathan Grobe

Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
have been thinking I should increase the time between
trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
While some can be frozen, others can't.

Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
the determining factor).

What is you policy on this? What are you freezing because
of the freshness problem...

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:

http://www.grobebooks.com

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 1:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net> wrote:

You can obviously stop eating those that cant.

> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have between trips?

Depends entirely on how much you are prepared to change what you eat.

I managed fine with 2 months once I chose to make my own bread using a bread machine.

> (For me it looks like milk would be the determining factor).

Nope, thats trivially fixed by using UHT milk that lasts much longer than 2 months.

If you cant get used to the taste of that, you can freeze normal milk fine.

> What is you policy on this?

I chose to eat what would last fine for 2 months.

I have since changed to eating a lot more fruit and now choose to do a weekly shop just for the fruit.

Even that could be extended a lot by eating mainly apples etc that keep for a long time in the fridge.

The weekly shop currently is limited by the bananas that only last about a week in the fridge.

> What are you freezing because of the freshness problem...

I freeze everything I eat routinely except the fruit and potatoes and lettuce.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 12 2008 2:47 am
From: Dave

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:09:56 +0000 (UTC)
Jonathan Grobe <grobe@netins.net> wrote:

> Since I live several miles from the nearest grocery
> store and since gas prices are rapidly increasing, I
> have been thinking I should increase the time between
> trips to the grocery store. The problem is perishables.
> While some can be frozen, others can't.
>
> Any thoughts on the longest interval one should have
> between trips? (For me it looks like milk would be
> the determining factor).
>
> What is you policy on this? What are you freezing because
> of the freshness problem...
>

While gas was still cheap, I was living over 30 miles from the nearest
supermarket. And I HATE grocery shopping. I managed just fine with
grocery shopping every other week. But I had given up drinking milk
years before then. I can't stomach milk now, it makes me ill.

But if you need milk, many convenience stores actually sell gallons of
milk CHEAPER than supermarkets, hoping you will stop there for cheap
milk and load up on lots of over-priced convenience items while you are
buying the cheap milk. My point? You should check the local
convenience stores to see if you can get your milk there. If so, then
two weeks between grocery shopping is easily done. But, obviously, you
have to be careful in making your list before you leave home.

On a side note, where I'm living now, I could easily walk to a
convenience store that carries milk for $1.99 per gallon. -Dave

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

6 new messages in 5 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* You are not frugal if...... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3c5261ec65743940?hl=en
* garden fence at right-angle to house - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2b96aa4904acd922?hl=en
* Any Good Methods for Filtering and Reusing Cooking Oil ? - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d1dc6a245c3380b7?hl=en
* How much does AC cost you? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cdcf4b45a8aaec43?hl=en
* Wesabe Newsletter, July 2008 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e601b9e5a2d89379?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 8:09 pm
From: "Nicik Name"

"William Souden" <souden@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:30Adk.17488$Ri.5074@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
> You ,as an individual. pay more than $100 for landline,cell and
> internet access. Find a company offering two or all three at a combo rate.
>
> You pay for travelers checks. Better to get them free at AAA or, even
> better, use a debit card on trips.
>
> You pay 25 cents a gallon more at a brand name station than at no name
> place across the street.
Where..........?
I have a Shell at 4.539 here with a no name no where near..........
>
> You pay an extra fee for concert and sporting events which have you go to
> Will Call when you can print the tickets at home.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 11:14 pm
From: Gordon

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 9:01 pm
From: Tim Smith

In article <Xns9AD734350687Ejdonotspamme@207.115.33.102>,
Jeff <j@donotspam.me> wrote:
> The Egyptians could have got right angles without using math. Lay out a
> rectangle and measure that the opposite corners in each direction are the
> same distance.

Let's say the corners, in order, as you traverse the perimeter of the
"rectangle" are A, B, C, and D. What do you mean by "opposite corners"?
At first, I'd take that to mean A and C are opposite corners, and B and
D are opposite corners. But then AC and BD can be the same distance,
without the thing actually being a rectangle:

A B
+----------------+
/ \
/ \
/ \
+------------------------+
C D

To ensure that a four-sided convex plane figure is a rectangle, I think
we need to check all of these:

AB = CD
AC = BD
AD = BC

Here's a simple way to get a right angle. Let's say we want a right
angle to this wall:

| |
+-----------------------------*-------------------------------+

We want a right angle at the point marked with the asterisk. We need
two pieces of string, the same length, each marked about 1/3 of the way
from one end. The marks should be in the same position on each string.
The end farthest from the mark should be attached to a stake or
something, so that it can be driven into the ground. I'll draw the
string like this:

.....o........v

The v represents the stake, and the o is the mark 2/3 from the free end.

Lay out one of the strings against the wall, with the mark at the *
point, and drive the stake into the ground:

| |
+-----------------------------*-------------------------------+
.....o........v

Move that string out of the way, and then place the other string's mark
at the *, but with the stake going toward the other direction, and drive
its stake in:

| |
+-----------------------------*-------------------------------+
v........o..... v
/
/
.....o

At this point you have two stakes driven into the ground on opposite
directions along the wall from the * point, but the same distance from
it, and each stake has a string attached to it. The strings are the
same length. Now just bring the ends of the two strings together and
pull them both taught (these drawings are distorted due to the
limitations of ASCII art and how much time I'm willing to try to make
it):

| |
+-----------------------------*-------------------------------+
v v
\ /
\ /
\ /
o o
\/

A line from the place where the ends of the strings meet, to the *, is
perpendicular to the wall.

Note that this construction is based on the classic geometry problem of
constructing a perpendicular to a line.

--
--Tim Smith

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Any Good Methods for Filtering and Reusing Cooking Oil ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d1dc6a245c3380b7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 10:27 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:36:33 -0700 (PDT), Jeffy3 <jeffy3@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Jul 11, 4:33?pm, "W. Stief" <n...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> Jeffy3 wrote:
>> > I'm new to occasional deep-frying and everyone recommends cheese cloth
>> > or coffee filters, and I've tried to coffee filter method with a
>> > funnel but the process is so slow and the funnel only holds so much so
>> > I have to keep coming back every ten minutes to pour some more oil
>> > in. ? ?Does anybody have any good ideas ?
>>
>> How about a piece of metal window screen folded like a funnel or basket?
>
>I guess what I'm asking is for methods that can handle a lot of oil at
>once without having to stand there and and keep pouring little bits at
>a time.

I use to have to do this all the time at the drive-in. The oil should
be a saturated oil, peanut oil, or lard. Don't recycle canola or
olive oil unless you like rancid oil. Oil will filter much faster if
it is hot -very hot. If you have a coffee filter in a funnel, stick
some straws between the filter and the funnel to open up the filter
material and keep it from sticking to the funnel. You can also do a
double filter, by using old sheets to get the larger crud, then the
coffee filters to get the fine stuff. It really doesn't make much
difference if you get it all. You are trying to get out the
uncarbonized food remnants so that the oil smalls less like fish or
chicken when you cook french fries. The small carbonized stuff won't
add to the flavor anyway.

Another trick is to fry up the potato skins after cooking fish or
chicken. The potato skins will absorb a lot of the odors.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much does AC cost you?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cdcf4b45a8aaec43?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 10:04 pm
From: Jeff

Lou wrote:
> "Jeff" <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote in message
> news:vbudnXfHz5mr8-rVnZ2dnUVZ_h3inZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>> James wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jul 11, 7:01 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> James wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I get 30 mpg not using AC but only 25 mpg with it on.
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's contrary to any study I've read, unless perhaps you are driving
>>>>> with your windows closed. Any references?
>>>>>
>>>>> At best, I see a 15% variation in tank-to-tank mileage, quite
>>>>> consistently throughout the year. I've also found no significant
>>>>> differences comparing spring, fall, winter & summer gas mileage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consequently, I'm reluctant to believe there is any significant
>>>>> difference.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, 30 less 15% is about 25.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 15% is the maximum variation I've seen over 110k on one car and 85k on
>>> the other - more likely variations due to how much the tank was filled /
>>> type of driving during any particular tank (city vs. hwy).
>>>
>>> As previously mentioned, I have also compared fall, winter, summer &
>>> spring mileage with essentially no significant differences (less than
>>> 1/2 mile).
>>>
>>> I highly doubt there is much difference w/wo air.
>> I see no difference myself. I have an instantaneous mileage gauge.
>
> I've had an instantaneous mileage guage on three cars. I don't see how it
> helps answer the question - the instantaneous mileage changes constantly
> with the slope of the road - a swing of 50 miles per gallon in a couple of
> seconds isn't rate, and changes for 5 to 20 mpg happen almost every 2
> seconds (that how often the display updates).

I simply don't see that. If I have this on cruise it remains fairly
constant as long as I'm on about the same slope. Turning the AC off and
on has a very minor effect. Averaging yields about the same results.

I've looked at average mileage on long trips (700 miles back and forth
to the same location). The mileage looks about the same in AC season and
when I run no AC. I do notice about a 1 mpg difference traveling the
downhill leg from the uphill. Even though the total elevation change is
only 1000 ft, I find that interesting. Something else may be going on.

A smaller or higher mileage car than mine would yield different results
than my New Yorker.

Jeff

I don't think I've ever
> driven as much as a mile with a constant instantaneous mileage, even though
> sourthern New Jersey is pretty flat.
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wesabe Newsletter, July 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e601b9e5a2d89379?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 11 2008 10:33 pm
From: Ablang

Happy Summer, Wesabeans! In this newsletter we'll give you the
scoop on:

* Businesses that members consistently deem to be "evil" (oh the
wonders of tagging)
* Cool ways to use Tips
* A new feature that's coming soon
* Highlights from the variety of Group discussions that have
ignited as people come together to battle the struggling economy.
* Blogs we read, some about money and some about life

Read on...

----------------------------------------------------------------
Top Five "Evil" Merchants

Wesabeans are definitely not afraid to speak their minds when it
comes to irresponsible businesses or unnecessary fees. Many
members have taken to categorizing such fees and purchases with
tags that are reflective of their low opinion, to say the least.
Check out the businesses so consistently categorized as "evil"
that they vie for a top-five ranking. You can find these-not-so
savory businesses by typing "evil" into your search field under
the Tips tab or by simply clicking here
[https://www.wesabe.com/tags/evil].

----------------------------------------------------------------
Wesabeans Find Common Ground
Through Money

At least that's what Wesabe's ever-active Groups discussions show
. Check out how Wesabeans are coming together over...

Money and Religion
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/35-christians/discussions/1631-
investing-with-stewardship-in-mind]
: Christians and Muslims discuss how to invest with a higher
authority in mind.

Their Income and Their Debt
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/9-paying-it-off/discussions/1603-how-
much-debt-do-you-have-and-how-fast-are-you-paying-it-off]
: More than 70 people chime in to share how much they're making,
how much they owe, and how they're paying it off.

Dealing with the Economy
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/9-paying-it-off/discussions/1886-what-
makes-you-feel-rich-while-being-frugal]
: Whether it's gas prices
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/4-saving-up/discussions/1861-how-are-
people-dealing-with-gas-prices]
, groceries
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/92-eating-on-a-budget/discussions/1749-
how-much-do-you-spend-on-groceries-per-week-month]
or how to feel rich while being frugal
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/9-paying-it-off/discussions/1886-what-
makes-you-feel-rich-while-being-frugal]
, Wesabeans are getting through the economic downturn with help
and advice from each other.

Relationships and Money
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/6-tying-the-knot]: Who hasn't had
an argument with their significant other over money? Check out
how domestic partners, soon-to-be-weds and married couples get
through the separate or joint account debate
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/66-just-married-or-soon-to-be/
discussions/1180-bills-and-accounts-together-or-separate]
, how to make
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/29-creating-a-budget/discussions/1926-
what-to-do-if-husband-is-anti-budget]
, share and keep a budget
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/29-creating-a-budget/discussions/1926-
what-to-do-if-husband-is-anti-budget]
, and making it work between a saver and a spender
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/66-just-married-or-soon-to-be/
discussions/651-hes-a-spender-i-am-a-saver]
.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Build Your Own Comparisons With the Tips Tab

Are you fiercely loyal to your local Safeway, dry cleaner, or
coffee shop? See how your favorite store, website or business
stacks up to the competition. By building a Wesabe Comparison
[https://www.wesabe.com/merchants/28612-falletti-foods-vs-28675-
bristol-farms-vs-2860-safeway-vs-6758-whole-foods-market-vs-2865]
you can see if Safeway is all that much cheaper than Whole Foods
, if there's another dry cleaner down the road that comes more
highly recommended than yours, or if Amazon.com really is a
better deal than Virgin

Simply click on the Tips Tab [https://www.wesabe.com/tips] and
select "See a Detailed Comparison" for the business you'd like
to compare or use the Search box to find the merchant you're
interested in. Once you're on the Merchant Details page, click
on the blue "Compare to Another Merchant" button and choose a
business. You can contrast as many as you'd like.

----------------------------------------------------------------
New "Tell A Friend" Feature

A few weeks ago, member A Weikle asked for a "unique link"
[https://www.wesabe.com/groups/3-make-wesabe-better/discussions/1896-
referral-links]
so that he could email friends to tell them about "this
wonderful service." One of our new engineers, Matt, saw A Weikle
's post and got right on it. Soon, you will be able to share the
wealth by simply clicking on the "Tell A Friend" link. Whether
your friend is looking to buy a house, needs help getting his
finances under control, or is always trying to bum a $20 off of
you, Wesabe can help!

----------------------------------------------------------------
Blogs You Love, Blogs We Love

What's on your RSS? Or maybe you even write a blog. We love to
hear about other great sites, so send your favorites on over! An
email with links is great, and if you're feeling ambitious, tell
us why you like them. Doesn't matter if it's about finance,
cooking, photography, fashion or parenting... we want them on our
radar and we'll share the best finds. Send your top picks to
allese@wesabe.com [mailto:allese@wesabe.com].

A few of our favorites:

For our food lovers - Noshtopia [http://www.noshtopia.com/], a
splendid place about wellness through food

On productivity and balance - Zen Habits [http://zenhabits.net/]
covers everything from parenting to frugal living to working on
getting a flat stomach

Making "cents" out of personal finance - Get Rich Slowly
[http://getrichslowly.org/blog/]

For those of us who want more money with less effort - Lazy Man
and Money [http://www.lazymanandmoney.com/]

And for female Wesabeans - The Pink of Perfection
[http://www.pinkofperfection.com/], a thrifty girls guide to la
dolce vita...

----------------------------------------------------------------
Lastly, a special thanks to our beta-tester members who have been
providing some great feedback on our new graphs and "add a
transfer" features. These, along with some other really cool
things that our engineers have been cooking up, will be rolled
out soon, so stay tuned!

-The People at Wesabe

[http://www.wesabe.com]

400 Montgomery St., Suite 900

San Francisco, CA 94104