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* Ugly Dish Antennas Nauseate Me - 2 messages, 2 authors
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* Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons - 18 messages, 5
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ugly Dish Antennas Nauseate Me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fd795758fa3f8c5?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 10:59 am
From: George Grapman
Chloe wrote:
> "Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1bg4h3hhj0d5e64764k3sbkj4rjcva2d4o@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:42:25 -0700, Anthony Matonak
>> <anthonym40@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the underpaid
>>> installers to choose the location. These installers don't care about
>>> appearances. This is the same reason that the trash cans hardly ever
>>> match the style of the house.
>> Does your house look like a trashcan?
>
> Or, a better question might be, where can I order an authentic Craftsman
> Bungalow trashcan? How about the Queen Anne Victorian? I bet those are
> pricy, what with all the fancy woodwork, turrets and all.
>
>
The only time anyone on the outside sees my trashcans are from Sunday
evening when I put them on the sidewalk until Monday morning.
The company here requires you to use receptacles that they provide
with the dandles that fit on their trucks.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 12:23 pm
From: Siskuwihane
On Oct 14, 12:28 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 13, 6:09 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Oct 13, 5:43 pm, Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Oct 13, 5:40 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Anthony Matonak <anthony...@nothing.like.socal.rr.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> unreelis...@aol.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> I can't believe how many people are sticking those godawful gray
> >>>>>>> dishes on the FRONT of their otherwise beautiful homes.
>
> >>>>>> As others have said, the owners probably left it up to the
> >>>>>> underpaid installers to choose the location. These installers
> >>>>>> don't care about appearances. This is the same reason that the
> >>>>>> trash cans hardly ever match the style of the house.
>
> >>>>>>> I was driving to work and went past a row of old beautiful well-
> >>>>>>> maintained gingerbread homes from around, oh, 1890's, and lo
> >>>>>>> and behold, the disgusting dish was popping out on the porch of
> >>>>>>> one of them.
>
> >>>>>> A row of stepford homes, all alike, strikes me as one of the
> >>>>>> ugliest things in the world. Gingerbread homes are especially
> >>>>>> ugly, only to be surpassed by the McMansion cubes that are
> >>>>>> sprouting up like weeds these days.
>
> >>>>>> On a frugal note, as long as it doesn't contain metal, you can
> >>>>>> paint these dishes any color or pattern you like.
>
> >>>>> Doesnt matter if it does contain metal. The dish itself is metal.
>
> >>>> No they're not
>
> >>> Should be, not all of them, mine is ABS.
>
> >> Which has a metallised surface. Wont work if it doesnt.
> > Nope, they can have a mesh embedded in them.
>
> Pity that a paint with metal in it wont be a problem with those.- Hide quoted text -
Oh yes, what a pity. The owners of those will be offing themselves in
droves.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:03 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:471196cd$0$11562$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do
>>>>>>>>>>> that.
>
>>>>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>
>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>
>>>>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to deal
>>>>>>> with.
>
>>>>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>
>>>>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of
>>>>> the problem.
>
>>>>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>>>>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>
>>>>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a long
>>>>> time now.
>
>>>>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>
>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the
>>>>>>>>>> problem.
>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the real
>>>>>>>>> problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy can
>>>>>>>>> possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there are
>>>>>>>>> inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards in the US
>>>>>>>>> are much better than in mexico and so they
>>>>>>>>> move to US if they can.
>
>>>>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>
>>>>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach like
>>>>>>>>> the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one brat STILL
>>>>>>>>> didnt fix the problem that the living standards in the US are MUCH
>>>>>>>>> better than in china, and so hordes would
>>>>>>>>> prefer to leave china.
>
>>>>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to
>>>>>>>>>> forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>
>>>>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>
>>>>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>
>>>>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living
>>>>>>> standards.
>
>>>>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>
>>>>> Nope.
>
>>>>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of
>>>>>> their birth rate.
>
>>>>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>>>>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>
>>>>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem, that
>>>>> STILL didnt stop the other fundamental
>>>>> problem, that the living standards are STILL so far below what they
>>>>> are in the US that hordes of people STILL want
>>>>> to leave that country and migrate to
>>>>> another one, and that many of them are prepared to do that illegally.
>
>>>> You are concentrating on the faulures and not the successes.
>
>>> Nope, just rubbing your nose in the FACT that while ever there is such a
>>> gross difference in the living standards
>>> between the worst of the
>>> third world and the US, there will inevitably be hordes that are
>>> prepared to risk even the death of their kids to move to the US and
>>> that your proposal for a jail that consists of tents in the desert isnt
>>> going to make any real difference deterrence
>>> wise when they are prepared to take that sort of risk.
>
>> Are you going to argue that it would not be a better tactic to throw
>> these people in jail and to increase the prison time they have to
>> spend in jail, every other time they are caught in this country
>> illegally, that would not have an effect on their "decision" to enter
>> this country illegally, and that it would not deter some from trying?
>
> Nope, JUST that it wouldnt have a big effect on the numbers trying
> and that it would be very expensive paying for their time in jail.
>
> It makes a lot more sense to spend that money on a decent wall like
> the Isrealis have, and fix the anchor baby problem with a constitutional
> amendment and fix the problem with the Cubans by removing the stupid
> provision that if they make it to the US, they get to stay for as long as
> they like.
You do know that at best, a wall (which I do support) only addresses a
little over a half of the illegal immigration problem don't you? As for the
anchor baby problem, it ain't going to happen, so don't spend a whole lot of
time saying that the solution is to change the constituion.
>
> And stop the stupid amnesty system which just rewards flouting of the law.
> Ship them back where they came from whenever they are discovered.
Well, first of all a fence is not going to do a thing about the 20 million
or so who are in this country already is it?
>
>> And why don't you think putting them into tent cities would not work,
>> when the facts seem to indicate otherwise.
>
> The facts show nothing of the sort. The facts show that even with
> MUCH more gung ho jails than the US would ever be prepared to
> have, like the chinese have chosen to have, that that doesnt stop
> hordes of North Koreans from attempting to move illegally to china.
"Hordes"? How many are "hordes"? Besides, even if your claim is right, all
that ssays is really desparate people will do really desparate things to
survive. It says you cannot stop peole from doing what they want to do.
Which in turn says, you cannot solve the problem by playing defense.
>
>> Look at the re-incarciration rate of the city in Arizona, where the
>> prisoners are put into tent cities.
>
> Different matter entirely, those arent coming from third world
> countrys where the living standards are MUCH worse than in
> the US for illegals. THATS whats driving most of the illegals.
You are really starting to get silly. The reason the living standards in
prison are better than the living standard they had, is a matter of "choice"
by the United States of America. You can "choose" to give them better
living conditions or you can "choose" not to give them better living
conditions. "If" you choose to give the better living conditions, then your
statement is partly correct.
>
>>> Even the sort of gung ho approach to jails that the chinese
>>> have STILL doesnt have any real effect on the North Koreans
>>> prepared to risk death for a better standard of living.
Huh? Are the Chinese shooting to kill any North Koreans to prevent them
from entering their country? Now had you said that about the East Germans,
that would have been true, but even that did not stop East Germans from
trying and a few succeeding to enter West Berlin did it?
>
>>>> Do you for a second believe that regardless of the birrthrate in the
>>>> United States, that this country could not have absorbed that rate?
>
>>> Corse it could, but it clearly chooses not to let anyone
>>> who wants to move to the US to do that anymore.
How did they do that? What law or policy of the United States are you
talking about?
== 2 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:04 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>
>> > Build the Fence!
>>
>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>
> The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
> soil, the law says they get to stay.
Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
== 3 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:07 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:471199f7$0$11578$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>
>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.
>
> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.
>
>
>
First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...", it did not
even mention NAFTA. Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the
problem (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you going to argue that
it won't "help"?
== 4 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:10 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-4FCAF5.19052713102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <47110f45$0$20629$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:atropos-5F30CC.19540512102007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <470fc3af$0$32517$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:atropos-995849.19110211102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article <470e6d4e$0$20581$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:atropos-3D6BE2.23071010102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >> > Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any
>> >> >> > city, county or state that undermines federal law by
>> >> >> > implementing "sanctuary" policies.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> and if they won't be intimidated by such tactics, then what?
>> >> >
>> >> > Then we've saved a lot of tax dollars that can be used for something
>> >> > else (or, heaven forbid, refunded to the citizens) and the problem
>> >> > is
>> >> > no
>> >> > worse than it was before.
>> >>
>> >> But you haven't solved the problem then have you?
>> >
>> > Haven't made it worse, either, and the federal government gets the
>> > benefit of saving a few billion dollars.
>>
>> The Federal government NEVER saves money. Whatever money they do not
>> spend
>> in one area, they spend in another area. It is like one of my wifes
>> favorite saying when she comes home from a day of shopping. "See how
>> much
>> money I saved" by buying these things on sale?
>> >
>> > Besides, the states and cities are so chronically addicted to federal
>> > money if the federal government cut it off, you'd see every one of
>> > these
>> > sanctuary policies dry up and blow away like tumbleweeds in the blink
>> > of
>> > an eye. These mayors and city councilmen would have riots on their
>> > hands
>> > if they suddenly had to either drastically cut city services or hike
>> > taxes through the roof to make up for the shortfall in their budgets
>> > where the federal money used to be.
>>
>> Do you for a second believe that the elected members of Congress from
>> these
>> states are going to go along with that idea?
>
> You keep falling back on that as if it somehow saves your argument. I
> stated from the beginning that the main problem is the lack of political
> will to do anything about illegal immigration. You then took issue with
> me and challenged me to come up with some solutions. Now every time I
> come up with something that *would* work if implemented, you respond by
> telling me there's no political will to do it-- which is exactly what I
> said to begin with.
To work, it has to have a chance of passing through Congress. Proposing a
solution that is not going to be adopted in not a solution, it is wishful
thinking.
== 5 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:11 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
news:X_-dnZnvgsuID4zanZ2dnUVZ_uevnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:47115572$0$32533$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
>> news:P8OdnVvAmbj5gIzanZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:470d7468$0$9534$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>
>>>> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:1192060312.900181.213070@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 10, 1:57 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Thanatos" <atro...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> news:atropos-F75617.00090210102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > In article <470c2a86$0$7506$4c368...@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> I asked for what someone would suggest we do about the problem.
>>>>>> >> Do you have a workable plan?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Not the point. You're bascially saying, "Yeah, there's a problem
>>>>>> > but
>>>>>> > until someone tells me how it can be solved (at which point I will
>>>>>> > do my
>>>>>> > damndest to torpedo whatever they come up with), nothing should be
>>>>>> > done
>>>>>> > at all."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a boss who told me once, you know every Tom, Dick and Harry can
>>>>>> tell
>>>>>> me about what they see as a problem. It does very little good to
>>>>>> hear about
>>>>>> a problem if they do not have a solution to the perceived problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your boss was obviously an idiot. Suppose an employee came to the
>>>>> boss and said "Every 10th widget that comes off the assembly line has
>>>>> cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile." According to the
>>>>> boss, that does very little good because the employee doesn't have a
>>>>> solution to the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, because the boss may not have a solution to the problem either, so
>>>> telling him about the problem does not solve the problem. On the other
>>>> hand, if you told the boss "every 10th widgtet that comes off the
>>>> assembly line has cracks in it and is going in the scrap pile" and you
>>>> had a solution to stop that from happening, that you have not only
>>>> pointed out a problem, but you have a way to stop that from happening.
>>>> Problems cannot be corrected without a solution. It is not bad to
>>>> point out problems, but it is a whole lot better, if you poitned out a
>>>> problem and had a proposed solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you
>>>>>> believe that something is a problem and you have no solution to
>>>>>> solving the
>>>>>> problem, then the problem will never go away....because SOMEONE has
>>>>>> to come
>>>>>> up with a solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the illegal immigration problem, there are obvious
>>>>> solutions. The only problem is, no one has the political will to
>>>>> implement them. Primarily because they are all afraid of being
>>>>> branded as racists, similar to what you see trying to be done in this
>>>>> thread.
>>>>
>>>> Okay, let us talk about illegal immigration. First of all, no society
>>>> has been very successdul at stopping people from doing what they want
>>>> to do. People enter this country illegally because they believe they
>>>> have a shot a living a better life here than where they come from. So,
>>>> if you do not address that dynamic, then nothing else you do will work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Solutions:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have guest worker permits that allow foreigners to work here legally
>>>>> for a limited time. Bush proposed this 5 years ago and it got shot
>>>>> down by everyone.
>>>>
>>>> that is not a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then enforce penalties against employers that hire illegal aliens.
>>>>> Increase the penalties where appropriate. Once there are no jobs for
>>>>> illegals, they'll stop coming.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That also is not a bad idea, but it ain't going to solve the problem.
>>>> First because you cannot possibly stop businesses from hiring these
>>>> people. You can make it a whole lot more difficult on them, and you
>>>> may stop more or most of them from hiring these illegals, but you will
>>>> NEVER stop ALL of them from hiring illegals. But for the sake of
>>>> discussion, let us for the moment assume that we can stop all
>>>> businesses from hiring illegals. Will that work? No, it won't work.
>>>> If you were in this country illegally, what you would do is work the
>>>> underground economy, so all you have succeeded in doing is driving them
>>>> to work in the underground economy, and then you have just made the job
>>>> of finding them that much harder, if not impossible.
>>>>
>>>>> Allow and encourage police at all levels to report illegal aliens that
>>>>> they encounter.
>>>>
>>>> Not a bad idea, but it won't happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Deport those that are found
>>>>
>>>> Lousy idea. You deport them and they just turn right around and
>>>> re-enter this country illegally again. "If" we were really serious
>>>> about providing them with a incentive not to enter this country
>>>> illegally, let them spend some time in prison. And if they come back
>>>> into this country illegally again, put them in prison for a longer
>>>> period of time. That alone would work a whole lot better.
>>>>>
>>>>> Get working on high tech solutions to manage the border. Surely with
>>>>> satellites, drone aircraft, sensor on the ground and the like, we can
>>>>> make it extremely difficult to get across the border. In fact, this
>>>>> would solve much of our problem in Iraq. If you can secure the
>>>>> borders, then no more explosives and terrorists would be coming in to
>>>>> Iraq and what explosives they have would be used up in short order.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nothing wrong with that idea. Of course there is a whole lot of water
>>>> surrounding the United States, and there is the northern border which
>>>> is open.
>>>>>
>>> But where is the fence?
>>> It works in Israel.
>>>
>>
>> I gather it is in the "construction" phase...sort of like a work in
>> progress...
>
> Have the Illegals build the fence which would cut the cost down for sure
> then when it's almost complete push the workers over the fence.
>
> Where's the fence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
>>
Now that is a good idea.
>
>
== 6 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:16 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ndjjrFha271U2@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>> It works in Israel.
>
>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>
>> why son't it work?
>
> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.
Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United States.
Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States over
water?
>
>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>
>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much more
>> difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.
>
> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
> that currently move over where the fence would be.
Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do? That
there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?
>
>> Second, we do have a wet foot/dry foot policy in this country when it
>> comes to Cubans. It is not exactly a good policy if you don't want them
>> to enter this country, instead it encourages them to keep trying.
>
> Corse it does.
>
>> Thirdly, that is what is inconsistent about this whole argument about
>> illegals. The government of the United States decides who is a legal
>> alien and who is not, the wet foot/dry foot rule is a good example.
>
> And the stupid amnesty policy in spades. The LAST thing
> that should be done is to reward the flouting of the law
> with an amnesty if you want to discourage illegals.
>
Amnesty is one of those words people use to make a point. For anyone with
half a brain, they would know that it is a meaningless and dishonest
argument to make.
== 7 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:24 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-1D067E.22293113102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <4711576a$0$25686$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Rick" <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote in message
>> news:F82dnVJdVPWTgYzanZ2dnUVZ_tWtnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> >
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>> > news:470bd495$0$11082$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> >> This is getting to be silly. There are some, what, 40 million of them
>> >> in
>> >> this country as we speak. What percentage of them are picking crops?
>> >> Why complain about a problem, if you have no solution to the problem?
>> >> What is your solution to the problem? I am willing to bet whatever
>> >> "solution" you propose, I can poke holes into your "solution" of why
>> >> it
>> >> won't work.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "RuleOfLaw" <miltonez@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1191906246.966265.44310@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> >>> On Oct 4, 6:06 am, cloud dreamer <Global_Warm...@is.real> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Funny how guys like Bill will whine over illegal immigrants but is
>> >>>> happy
>> >>>> to buy cheap strawberries made possible only by their labour. I
>> >>>> doubt
>> >>>> he'd be willing to bend over and pick in the hot sun for their
>> >>>> wages.
>> >>>
>> >>> Enonomists have thoroughly exploded the myth of "cheap
>> >>> strawberries" (or is "cheap lettuce" more your hollow cliche of
>> >>> choice?)
>> >>>
>> >>> First of all, the use of illegal alien laborAT MOST reduces produce
>> >>> prices a few cents per pound.
>> >>>
>> >>> Secondly, the citizen taxpayers pay ENORMOUS amounts of money (and
>> >>> sometimes with their very lives) to harbor this "cheap" illegal alien
>> >>> labor. Right nos MY local hospital is CLOSING due to illegal aliens
>> >>> bankrupting it!!!!!!!!!!!
>> >>>
>> >>> Thirdly, it's been convincingly argued that the presence of illegal
>> >>> aliens actually HINDERS growers' introduction of what would be LABOR-
>> >>> SAVING automation which would TRULY LOWER prices. With so many
>> >>> illegals around growers have little reason to further automate.
>> >>>
>> > Well for one none of them have a legal Social Security Card. You want a
>> > job get a legal SSC. If you don't no employment from any business in
>> > the
>> > United States and no Welfare either with out a SSC.
>> >
>>
>> Did you read about what is actually happening. We now require employers
>> to
>> give the Social Security Administration the social security number of ANY
>> new employee. If the Social Security Administration find no match, they
>> advise the employer. But they have no authority to do anything "if" the
>> employer does nothing about the notification. When there is a no match,
>> the
>> Social Securitu Administration sends that information to the Homeland
>> Security people, who have no law enforcement ability.
>
> Where do you get the idea that Homeland Security has no law enforcement
> capability. The Border Patrol, ICE, Coast Guard and Secret Service all
> have law enforcement authority and are all part of the Department of
> Homeland Security.
sorry about that, I was referring to the fact that the Homeland Security
people have not means from what I have read, to do anything about the
illegals that the Social Security Adminsitration has identified as
"possible" illegal aliens in this country.
== 8 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 12:04 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Trouble is that there are no 'solutions' that will actually do that.
>>>>>>>>>>> There is "always" a solution.
>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>> Then if there is no solution, learn to live with the problem?
>>>>>>>> Or just deal with the parts of the problem that are feasible to deal with.
>>>>>>> What parts of the problem is that?
>>>>>> One obvious area that can be dealth with is the anchor baby part of the problem.
>>>>>> All that would take is a constitutional amendment and there
>>>>>> isnt any doubt that that would get overwhelming support.
>>>>>> Most modern first world countrys have binned that stupidity for a long time now.
>>>>>>>>>>> There "may not be the will", but there is a solution.
>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>> For instance, the government in Mexcio is one big part of the problem.
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, no govt of mexico can actually do anything about the
>>>>>>>>>> real problem, they pump out FAR more kids than the economy
>>>>>>>>>> can possibly sustain with decent living standards, so there
>>>>>>>>>> are inevitably hordes who notice that the living standards
>>>>>>>>>> in the US are much better than in mexico and so they
>>>>>>>>>> move to US if they can.
>>>>>>>>>>> They cannot seem to adopt policies that will actually
>>>>>>>>>>> dramatically improve the lives of their citizens.
>>>>>>>>>> There are no such policys. Even a very draconian approach
>>>>>>>>>> like the chinese adopted of forcing most to only have one
>>>>>>>>>> brat STILL didnt fix the problem that the living standards
>>>>>>>>>> in the US are MUCH better than in china, and so hordes would
>>>>>>>>>> prefer to leave china.
>>>>>>>>>>> One solution (though I am not saying we should do it) is to forcibly change the government in Mexico.
>>>>>>>>>> Wont do a damned thing about the fundamental problem.
>>>>>>>>> what is the "fundamental problem"?
>>>>>>>> I told you, they pump out FAR more kids than their economy
>>>>>>>> can ever support and thats what produces so many that find
>>>>>>>> that moving to the US will improve their personal living standards.
>>>>>>> you have got to be kidding me.
>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>> Societies have managed to take care of their people, regardless of their birth rate.
>>>>>> Have fun listing a single one thats got a birth
>>>>>> rate like Mexico has thats actually done that.
>>>>>> And like I said, even when china did fix the birth rate problem,
>>>>>> that STILL didnt stop the other fundamental problem, that the living standards are STILL so far below what they
>>>>>> are in the US that hordes of people STILL want to leave that country and migrate to another one, and that many of
>>>>>> them are prepared to do that illegally.
>>>>> You are concentrating on the faulures and not the successes.
>>>> Nope, just rubbing your nose in the FACT that while ever there is
>>>> such a gross difference in the living standards
>>>> between the worst of the
>>>> third world and the US, there will inevitably be hordes that are
>>>> prepared to risk even the death of their kids to move to the US and
>>>> that your proposal for a jail that consists of tents in the desert
>>>> isnt going to make any real difference deterrence
>>>> wise when they are prepared to take that sort of risk.
>>> Are you going to argue that it would not be a better tactic to throw
>>> these people in jail and to increase the prison time they have to
>>> spend in jail, every other time they are caught in this country
>>> illegally, that would not have an effect on their "decision" to enter this country illegally, and that it would not
>>> deter some from trying?
>> Nope, JUST that it wouldnt have a big effect on the numbers trying
>> and that it would be very expensive paying for their time in jail.
>> It makes a lot more sense to spend that money on a decent wall like the Isrealis have, and fix the anchor baby
>> problem with a constitutional amendment and fix the problem with the Cubans by removing the stupid provision that if
>> they make it to the US, they get to stay for as long as they like.
> You do know that at best, a wall (which I do support) only addresses a little over a half of the illegal immigration
> problem don't you?
Yep, I have said so myself more than once. Half is a significant amount
tho, and if the other problems like anchor babys and amnestys are fixed
too, and both of those can be fixed without spending that much, collection
would have a significant effect on the total numbers of new illegals.
> As for the anchor baby problem, it ain't going to happen, so don't spend
> a whole lot of time saying that the solution is to change the constituion.
Have fun explaining how come virtually every other modern first world
country has chosen to get rid of that stupidity and have done it fine.
>> And stop the stupid amnesty system which just rewards flouting of the law. Ship them back where they came from
>> whenever they are discovered.
> Well, first of all a fence is not going to do a thing about the 20 million or so who are in this country already is
> it?
Corse it wont, but it will obviously do something about
the numbers of NEW illegals that show up every year.
>>> And why don't you think putting them into tent cities would not work, when the facts seem to indicate otherwise.
>> The facts show nothing of the sort. The facts show that even with
>> MUCH more gung ho jails than the US would ever be prepared to
>> have, like the chinese have chosen to have, that that doesnt stop
>> hordes of North Koreans from attempting to move illegally to china.
> "Hordes"? How many are "hordes"?
That numbers have never really been properly quantified, but you do
see the same visible effects in the relevant parts of china, so many
illegals that you even see some of the street signs in Korean etc.
> Besides, even if your claim is right,
It isnt my claim, its well known.
http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2007/s2024218.htm
> all that ssays is really desparate people will do really desparate things to survive.
It aint just survival, we saw plenty of vietnamese prepared to take very
significant risks to their own lives and the lives of their kids to leave a
country where there wasnt any problem with the necessitys of life.
And Iranians prepare to do the same thing in more recent times too.
> It says you cannot stop peole from doing what they want to do. Which in turn says, you cannot solve the problem by
> playing defense.
And that your jails that consist of tents in the desert wont stop them either.
>>> Look at the re-incarciration rate of the city in Arizona, where the prisoners are put into tent cities.
>> Different matter entirely, those arent coming from third world
>> countrys where the living standards are MUCH worse than in
>> the US for illegals. THATS whats driving most of the illegals.
> You are really starting to get silly.
Nope, you are getting desperate.
> The reason the living standards in prison are better than the living standard they had, is a matter of "choice" by the
> United States of America.
Irrelevant to whether it will achieve anything and will cost a hell of a lot.
> You can "choose" to give them better living conditions or you can "choose" not to give them better living conditions.
> "If" you choose to give the better living conditions, then your statement is partly correct.
My statement is completely correct, because there is no way that
the US will ever be prepared to adopt the sort of gung ho approach
to jails that the chinese have, so you wont get a significant deterrence
because even the gung ho approach that the chinese adopt doesnt
stop North Koreans being prepare to risk it. Even a real risk of being
executed back in Korea once the chinese return you doesnt stop them.
>>>> Even the sort of gung ho approach to jails that the chinese
>>>> have STILL doesnt have any real effect on the North Koreans
>>>> prepared to risk death for a better standard of living.
> Huh? Are the Chinese shooting to kill any North Koreans to prevent them from entering their country?
Nope, the Koreans do that to stop their citizens from leaving.
> Now had you said that about the East Germans, that would have been true, but even that did not stop East Germans from
> trying and a few succeeding to enter West Berlin did it?
It did dramatically reduce the numbers of those prepared to take that risk.
>>>>> Do you for a second believe that regardless of the birrthrate in the United States, that this country could not
>>>>> have absorbed that rate?
>>>> Corse it could, but it clearly chooses not to let anyone
>>>> who wants to move to the US to do that anymore.
> How did they do that? What law or policy of the United States are you talking about?
The basic immigration law. You cant NOW just turn up at the border and say you want
to move permently to the US and they just let you in because you want to do that.
At one time there werent any border controls at all.
== 9 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 12:11 pm
From: Thanatos
In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
> >
> >> > Build the Fence!
> >>
> >> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
> >
> > The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
> > soil, the law says they get to stay.
>
> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to stay
here as foreign residents at a minimum.
== 10 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 12:12 pm
From: Thanatos
In article <47125b9f$0$25669$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:atropos-4FCAF5.19052713102007@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <47110f45$0$20629$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> news:atropos-5F30CC.19540512102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <470fc3af$0$32517$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:atropos-995849.19110211102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> > In article <470e6d4e$0$20581$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> >> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >> news:atropos-3D6BE2.23071010102007@news.giganews.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any
> >> >> >> > city, county or state that undermines federal law by
> >> >> >> > implementing "sanctuary" policies.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> and if they won't be intimidated by such tactics, then what?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Then we've saved a lot of tax dollars that can be used for something
> >> >> > else (or, heaven forbid, refunded to the citizens) and the problem
> >> >> > is
> >> >> > no
> >> >> > worse than it was before.
> >> >>
> >> >> But you haven't solved the problem then have you?
> >> >
> >> > Haven't made it worse, either, and the federal government gets the
> >> > benefit of saving a few billion dollars.
> >>
> >> The Federal government NEVER saves money. Whatever money they do not
> >> spend
> >> in one area, they spend in another area. It is like one of my wifes
> >> favorite saying when she comes home from a day of shopping. "See how
> >> much
> >> money I saved" by buying these things on sale?
> >> >
> >> > Besides, the states and cities are so chronically addicted to federal
> >> > money if the federal government cut it off, you'd see every one of
> >> > these
> >> > sanctuary policies dry up and blow away like tumbleweeds in the blink
> >> > of
> >> > an eye. These mayors and city councilmen would have riots on their
> >> > hands
> >> > if they suddenly had to either drastically cut city services or hike
> >> > taxes through the roof to make up for the shortfall in their budgets
> >> > where the federal money used to be.
> >>
> >> Do you for a second believe that the elected members of Congress from
> >> these
> >> states are going to go along with that idea?
> >
> > You keep falling back on that as if it somehow saves your argument. I
> > stated from the beginning that the main problem is the lack of political
> > will to do anything about illegal immigration. You then took issue with
> > me and challenged me to come up with some solutions. Now every time I
> > come up with something that *would* work if implemented, you respond by
> > telling me there's no political will to do it-- which is exactly what I
> > said to begin with.
>
> To work, it has to have a chance of passing through Congress. Proposing a
> solution that is not going to be adopted in not a solution, it is wishful
> thinking.
So you're just talking in circles, then. You could have saved us all a
lot of trouble by outlining your strategy from the beginning.
== 11 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 12:33 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Audie Murphy's Ghost <takebackamerica@2008.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Audie Murphy's Ghost <takebackamerica@2008.com> wrote
>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote
>>>> Audie Murphy's Ghost <takebackamerica@2008.com> wrote
>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>>>>> Build the Fence!
>>>>> That's exactly what Nikita Khrushchev said, and look how well *that* worked out.
>>>>> I guess they knew what they were doing when they named them the "red states."
>>>> But Khrushchev was keeping the East Germans from leaving.
>>>> We just want to keep the criminals and terrorists out.
>>> No, you don't. You want to keep the Mexicans out, whether they're
>>> crooked or not, whether they work hard or not, whether theycontribute
>>> to the tax base or not. If you want to keep the terrorists out, then where's
>>> the wall between the U.S. and Canada? Good luck trying to get
>>> that one built, BTW, as the Canadians won't put up with that shit.
>> They get no say on that if its built on US land.
> Sure they do.
Nope, not if its built on US land.
> You think we can do whatever we want, whenever
> we want, without respect to treaty or precedent.
Yep, if its built on US land.
> There would be fallout all over the place -- trade
> agreements, cultural exchanges, tourism, everything.
Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
> I wouldn't be surprised if some raving lunatic suggests building a wall along
> the U.S.-Canadian border, too, because some politicians love simple ideas,
> no matter how much they cost or how damned foolish they are. They draw
> votes from simpletons, which is really what all this is about.
Thats always been one of the real downsides of democracy.
>>> Walls don't work,
>> Have fun explaining the one in Isreal that works fine, dramatically reducing
>> the number who avoid checkpoints between Isreal and Palestine etc.
> "Isreal" doesn't have the vast amount of space to defend that the U.S. does.
Pity YOU stupidly claimed that walls dont work.
> The Israeli wall is about 440 miles long,
> and a third of it hasn't even been built yet.
It will be, you watch.
> It doesn't seem very important to the Israelis, either,
> since construction is at least seven years behind schedule.
Schedules are completely irrelevant.
> The U.S.-Canadian border is almost 4,000 miles long,
> counting Alaska. There is simply no comparison.
Pity YOU stupidly claimed that walls dont work.
> How much of the national budget do you want to spend on these walls?
> How are you going to patrol and maintain them? How are you going to
> pay for all this? And what are you going to do about the coastlines?
> Build seawalls?
Pity YOU stupidly claimed that walls dont work.
>>> except to tag those who build them as the debris of history
>>> -- for instance, the Soviets, who built the one in Berlin.
>> It worked too.
> The hell it did.
Corse it did, it dramatically reduced the number of east krauts that crossed the border.
> Your pals the Soviets cut the flow of people, but it
> cost them a political black eye that lingers to this day.
Irrelevant to whether it worked or not.
> You're probably the only one left who still approves of the Berlin Wall.
I never ever said that I approved of it, JUST that it clearly worked.
The fence between north and south korea does too.
>>> BTW, seen the stories about American farmers whose operations are
>>> being disrupted by the wall? Some of them can no longer get their
>>> livestock to water sources. Since it's a desert, this is somewhat of
>>> a problem -- not that the piss-ant politicians care about that sort of thing.
> I left this in because you ignored it.
Wasnt relevant to what I chose to comment on, whether walls can work.
== 12 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 12:42 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.
>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.
> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...", it did not even mention NAFTA.
Its a similar economic change.
> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you going to
> argue that it won't "help"?
Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico,
that wont have any effect on the number that still decide that their
prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.
== 13 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 12:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>> It works in Israel.
>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>>> why son't it work?
>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.
> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United States.
And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the Cubans.
> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States over water?
Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have to.
>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much more difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.
>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>> that currently move over where the fence would be.
> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?
No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.
> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?
That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
much better in the US than where they are coming from.
And when that is due to the birth rate where they are coming
from, you have a problem for which there is no solution.
>>> Second, we do have a wet foot/dry foot policy in this country when it comes to Cubans. It is not exactly a good
>>> policy if you don't want them to enter this country, instead it encourages them to keep trying.
>> Corse it does.
>>> Thirdly, that is what is inconsistent about this whole argument about illegals. The government of the United States
>>> decides who is a legal alien and who is not, the wet foot/dry foot rule is a good example.
>> And the stupid amnesty policy in spades. The LAST thing
>> that should be done is to reward the flouting of the law
>> with an amnesty if you want to discourage illegals.
> Amnesty is one of those words people use to make a point.
Its also a significant part of the problem, all the illegals realise that amnestys
do occur and that all they need to do is exist illegally for long enough and they
might well qualify for an amnesty and they have got what they want.
> For anyone with half a brain, they would know that it is a meaningless and dishonest argument to make.
Anyone with half a brain realises that its a significant driver of illegal immigration
instead of the alternative of deporting all illegals as soon as they are discovered
and that its rewarding those who choose to flout the law.
== 14 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 1:43 pm
From: Audie Murphy's Ghost
In article
<47126f12$0$11611$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, Rod
Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Audie Murphy's Ghost <takebackamerica@2008.com> wrote
> >> They get no say on that if its built on US land.
>
> > Sure they do.
>
> Nope, not if its built on US land.
>
> > You think we can do whatever we want, whenever
> > we want, without respect to treaty or precedent.
>
> Yep, if its built on US land.
You really have no idea how things work, do you? I mean, not a clue.
> > There would be fallout all over the place -- trade
> > agreements, cultural exchanges, tourism, everything.
>
> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant fantasys.
That's supposed to be clever?
> > "Isreal" doesn't have the vast amount of space to defend that the U.S. does.
>
> Pity YOU stupidly claimed that walls dont work.
You still haven't proffered any evidence that they do, particularly in
the case of walls that don't even exist. How do *they* work?
>
> > The Israeli wall is about 440 miles long,
> > and a third of it hasn't even been built yet.
>
> It will be, you watch.
I won't bother.
>
> > It doesn't seem very important to the Israelis, either,
> > since construction is at least seven years behind schedule.
>
> Schedules are completely irrelevant.
The hell they are. They are a clear indication of the lack of priority
the Israelis are giving this project.
>
> > The U.S.-Canadian border is almost 4,000 miles long,
> > counting Alaska. There is simply no comparison.
>
> Pity YOU stupidly claimed that walls dont work.
Cut and paste. Cut and paste. Yawn.
>
> > How much of the national budget do you want to spend on these walls?
> > How are you going to patrol and maintain them? How are you going to
> > pay for all this? And what are you going to do about the coastlines?
> > Build seawalls?
>
> Pity YOU stupidly claimed that walls dont work.
Either answer the questions or shut the fuck up. There. That clear
enough for you?
> >>> except to tag those who build them as the debris of history
> >>> -- for instance, the Soviets, who built the one in Berlin.
>
> >> It worked too.
>
> > The hell it did.
>
> Corse it did, it dramatically reduced the number of east krauts that crossed
> the border.
>
> > Your pals the Soviets cut the flow of people, but it
> > cost them a political black eye that lingers to this day.
>
> Irrelevant to whether it worked or not.
>
> > You're probably the only one left who still approves of the Berlin Wall.
>
> I never ever said that I approved of it, JUST that it clearly worked.
Sure you approved of it. You loved the idea. You even offered it as
an example of the kind of thing we should do here. Now you're
backtracking because even you have begun to realize that you sound like
a communist.
>
> The fence between north and south korea does too.
>
> >>> BTW, seen the stories about American farmers whose operations are
> >>> being disrupted by the wall? Some of them can no longer get their
> >>> livestock to water sources. Since it's a desert, this is somewhat of
> >>> a problem -- not that the piss-ant politicians care about that sort of thing.
>
> > I left this in because you ignored it.
>
> Wasnt relevant to what I chose to comment on, whether walls can work.
And what you had to say wasn't relevant to anything at all. You're
dismissed.
== 15 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:19 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nf7ihFhgu6iU2@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>> all that ssays is really desparate people will do really desparate things
>> to survive.
>
> It aint just survival, we saw plenty of vietnamese prepared to take very
> significant risks to their own lives and the lives of their kids to leave
> a
> country where there wasnt any problem with the necessitys of life.
Why did they flee the country of their birth?
>
> And Iranians prepare to do the same thing in more recent times too.
"Prepare" means they are thinking of leaving but have not done so?
>
>> It says you cannot stop peole from doing what they want to do. Which in
>> turn says, you cannot solve the problem by playing defense.
>
> And that your jails that consist of tents in the desert wont stop them
> either.
An opinion not in line with the facts. Besides, you are basically saying
there is no sense of putting people in jail, because it won't stop ciminals
from doing what they do do....
== 16 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:21 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Build the Fence!
>> >>
>> >> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>> >
>> > The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S.
>> > soil, the law says they get to stay.
>>
>> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
>
> I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to stay
> here as foreign residents at a minimum.
And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and
those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping ahead of the line"?
== 17 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:23 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5nf9ocFi0mrpU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have
>>>> now.
>
>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.
>
>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...", it did not
>> even mention NAFTA.
>
> Its a similar economic change.
Why is it "similar"?
>
>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is not
>> intended to fix the problem), are you going to argue that it won't
>> "help"?
>
> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico,
> that wont have any effect on the number that still decide that their
> prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.
>
Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would not otherwise
have, and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this
country illegally?
== 18 of 18 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 3:24 pm
From: "Jerry Okamura"
"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-27B689.15121514102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <47125b9f$0$25669$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:atropos-4FCAF5.19052713102007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <47110f45$0$20629$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:atropos-5F30CC.19540512102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article <470fc3af$0$32517$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:atropos-995849.19110211102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> >> > In article <470e6d4e$0$20581$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> >> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:atropos-3D6BE2.23071010102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Don't forget cutting off all federal funding to any
>> >> >> >> > city, county or state that undermines federal law by
>> >> >> >> > implementing "sanctuary" policies.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> and if they won't be intimidated by such tactics, then what?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Then we've saved a lot of tax dollars that can be used for
>> >> >> > something
>> >> >> > else (or, heaven forbid, refunded to the citizens) and the
>> >> >> > problem
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > no
>> >> >> > worse than it was before.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But you haven't solved the problem then have you?
>> >> >
>> >> > Haven't made it worse, either, and the federal government gets the
>> >> > benefit of saving a few billion dollars.
>> >>
>> >> The Federal government NEVER saves money. Whatever money they do not
>> >> spend
>> >> in one area, they spend in another area. It is like one of my wifes
>> >> favorite saying when she comes home from a day of shopping. "See how
>> >> much
>> >> money I saved" by buying these things on sale?
>> >> >
>> >> > Besides, the states and cities are so chronically addicted to
>> >> > federal
>> >> > money if the federal government cut it off, you'd see every one of
>> >> > these
>> >> > sanctuary policies dry up and blow away like tumbleweeds in the
>> >> > blink
>> >> > of
>> >> > an eye. These mayors and city councilmen would have riots on their
>> >> > hands
>> >> > if they suddenly had to either drastically cut city services or hike
>> >> > taxes through the roof to make up for the shortfall in their budgets
>> >> > where the federal money used to be.
>> >>
>> >> Do you for a second believe that the elected members of Congress from
>> >> these
>> >> states are going to go along with that idea?
>> >
>> > You keep falling back on that as if it somehow saves your argument. I
>> > stated from the beginning that the main problem is the lack of
>> > political
>> > will to do anything about illegal immigration. You then took issue with
>> > me and challenged me to come up with some solutions. Now every time I
>> > come up with something that *would* work if implemented, you respond by
>> > telling me there's no political will to do it-- which is exactly what I
>> > said to begin with.
>>
>> To work, it has to have a chance of passing through Congress. Proposing
>> a
>> solution that is not going to be adopted in not a solution, it is wishful
>> thinking.
>
> So you're just talking in circles, then. You could have saved us all a
> lot of trouble by outlining your strategy from the beginning.
No, you are making a proposal which is not realistic, because it will not
happen, at least for the near future.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Winter's Coming: Window Cracks and Leaks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1505995112e420aa?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 11:52 am
From: pc
PaPaPeng wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> There are cracks up to a quarter inch wide between the the window
> frame and the inside window trim. It had been letting in cold air and
> leaking out warm air out for years. I had not done anything because I
> tolerate cold better and always set my thermostat to 72 deg F. The
> average gas bill hasn't changed for years and the furnace wasn't
> exactly knocking itself out unless it gets to minus twenty deg F or C.
> Its an unreliable measure of energy loss for sure.
>
> The window frames were tight and secure to the stucco finish so there
> were no repairs or caulking possible there without making the problem
> something major. Same thing inside the house. The window trim was
> also tight and secure against the wall. No adjustments were possible.
> I didn't like the idea of those aerosol cans of squeeze foam
> insulation as they are sticky and would be impossible to remove if
> they didn't work and I come around to redoing the window repairs.
> This is indeed fortunate because I chatted with my neighbor and he
> said never to use that stuff. He did and the foam accelerated the
> cracks in his windows over the years and he has a real problem now.
> My other porposed solution was to stuff the cracks with fiberglass
> insulation and glue or nail a thin slat of woodover the whole inside
> window trim to cover the repairs. I have a well equipped garage
> workshop and can do that except I procrastinate (long story).
'Great Stuff' foam is really hard to work with. Your neighbor is right.
But, there is another foam that I highly recommend. It's made by DAP.
I think it's called Daptex for windows and doors. It comes in a blue
and black can. This foam is water soluble. So, it doesn't stick to
your hands for weeks after. The straw and nozzle can be cleaned out.
And you can reuse the can until it's empty, unlike the other stuff. It
also stays flexible and doesn't expand as much as the other product.
HTH..
..PC
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 07 new A&F coat ,new bape jeans,hoody
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a014527b1299979?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 2:14 pm
From: Mike
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dollars Stores and Liquid Soap
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0bed274e0c47e99?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 2:15 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)
In article <13h0j9dss5h6d25@corp.supernews.com>, Jeff wrote:
>Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>
>> larry wrote:
>>
>>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just another note on liquid soaps in dollar stores: Not only is it
>>>> cheaper than at the grocery (even if you are buying large refill
>>>> containers), but you can get "ordinary" soap (i.e., not
>>>> anti-bacterial). For people who think that using anti-bacterial soap
>>>> all the time is a bad time, this is useful to know.
>>>
>>> Watch prices carefully at Dollar General. After their buyout, nothing
>>> but another cashcow raid by KKR, they changed a lot of suppliers and
>>> jacked up prices by about 30%!!!
>>
>> I don't even go to Dollar General or Family Dollar.
>
>There's a lot of absolute crap in some of these stores. I'd never buy
>another CF bulb from one.
I consider that the understatement of the month!
In my experience, dollar store CFLs:
* Consistently produce less light than claimed - sometimes 70% less.
* Usually have an icy bluish white "daylight" color. Some in packages
claiming "soft warm white light" have the icy bluish color.
* If they are warm color, they usually have low color rendering index.
Even most of the "daylight" ones have a color rendering index slightly
lower than usual for CFLs.
* Usually lack the FCC ID # that mains-powered CFLs with electronic
ballasts are required to have.
* Usually lack the UL listing that ballast-included CFLs normally have.
* In my experience, have a high rate of malfunctioning, being DOA, and
dying spectcularly.
I only get them to say that I have actual experience when I say how bad
they are.
One thing that makes me think better of Dollar Tree is that I never saw
any of these stool specimen CFLs there.
>And I have seen dish soap that looked like
>soap, but did not act like soap. Not frugal if it doesn't do the job.
> Cheap products are often not. It's often hard to tell the value of
>something by the packaging.
Also, what about the products that are obviously inferior if you read
the labels? Best example I can think of: Rubbing alcohol. The dollar
store garbage is 50%, while rubbing alcohol anywhere else is normally 70%.
Also, dollar stores are now the main place to get "heavy duty"
batteries. The battery technology that has that name got its name when it
was an improvement over an even weaker and more obsolete battery
technology. "Heavy Duty" batteries are now cheap lightweights that
underperform alkalines, and alkalines are the usual now.
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ( www.nikes4wholesale.com ) Wholesale Nike Shox
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e3531614ff523aa?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 2:52 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: we accept paypal Wholesale nike air jordans adidas puma bape,from www.
nikekickcoo.com,China
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3baa8c18a382d4cb?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 14 2007 2:53 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com
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==============================================================================
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