Frugal Living: Dec 5, 2009

Saturday, December 5, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Gore can't take the HEAT - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3011896453635850?hl=en
* ../▇\.... /▇\o 2009 Cheap wholesale Nike shox at website: www.fjrjtrade.com <
Paypal Payment>+<Free Shipping> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f56817456dd098e4?hl=en
* How "Damage Points" affect your FICO credit score - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4ced51e4825bdee0?hl=en
* Krackpot Ray Keller gets caught in his lies, public records tell the tale -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df30389fcba1b11e?hl=en
* Indoor diy barbeques - 15 messages, 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c79a680d8ecce233?hl=en
* The healthcare bill is so bad - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
* Frugal living in Russia as management goes homeless - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d865ce2beadf6228?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gore can't take the HEAT
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3011896453635850?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 10:13 pm
From: "sr"

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:8143a$4b18436d$ccb58423$25174@ispn.net...
> foxnews
>
> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagen

> Michigan sees record snow...
DC Under Winter Weather Advisory...

Al Gore could not be reached for comment

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:23 am
From: RickMerrill

sr wrote:
> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
> news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
>> Zee wrote:
>>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>>> foxnews
>>>>
>>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>> He's human after all.
>>
>> And he wasn't wrong.
>>
>> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>>
>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>>
>> Note the distinct upward trend.
>>
>> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth is
>> cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino temperature
>> spike.
>>
>> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if there
>> are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of) but a
>> positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>>
>> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
>> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of natural
>> climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently positive (high
>> climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could be catastrophic.
>>
>> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read his
>> evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much worse than
>> Al Gore has said.
>>
>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Cretaceous Period
> 144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their current
> positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today. South America and
> Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A circum-equatorial sea,
> Tethys, forms between the continents of the Northern and Southern
> Hemisphere. The westward movement of North America forms the ancestral Rocky
> Mountains and the ancestral Sierra Nevada. Sea levels rise, submerging about
> 30% of the Earth's present land surface.
> The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.
>
> ====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that the
> oceans covered the west coast?
> and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in the
> rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
> 150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise. And,

You DO realize that in those millions of years the LAND itself has risen?!

> it wasn't man's
> activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do with
> global warming nor oceans rising, it
> is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say anything
> you wish, that is one reason
> for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
> BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
> problem for the Left, lately.
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 10:07 am
From: "sr"

That's the point Mother Nature, not man
"RickMerrill" <RM@spamless.com> wrote in message
news:hfe1e6$psp$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> sr wrote:
>> "jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> Zee wrote:
>>>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>>>> foxnews
>>>>>
>>>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>>> He's human after all.
>>>
>>> And he wasn't wrong.
>>>
>>> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>>>
>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>>>
>>> Note the distinct upward trend.
>>>
>>> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth is
>>> cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino temperature
>>> spike.
>>>
>>> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if there
>>> are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of) but a
>>> positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>>>
>>> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
>>> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of
>>> natural climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently positive
>>> (high climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could be
>>> catastrophic.
>>>
>>> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read his
>>> evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much worse
>>> than Al Gore has said.
>>>
>>> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Cretaceous Period
>> 144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their current
>> positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today. South America
>> and Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A circum-equatorial
>> sea, Tethys, forms between the continents of the Northern and Southern
>> Hemisphere. The westward movement of North America forms the ancestral
>> Rocky Mountains and the ancestral Sierra Nevada. Sea levels rise,
>> submerging about 30% of the Earth's present land surface.
>> The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.
>>
>> ====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that the
>> oceans covered the west coast?
>> and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in
>> the rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
>> 150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise.
>> And,
>
> You DO realize that in those millions of years the LAND itself has risen?!
>
>
>
>> it wasn't man's
>> activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do with
>> global warming nor oceans rising, it
>> is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say
>> anything you wish, that is one reason
>> for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
>> BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
>> problem for the Left, lately.
>>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ../▇\.... /▇\o 2009 Cheap wholesale Nike shox at website: www.fjrjtrade.
com <Paypal Payment>+<Free Shipping>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f56817456dd098e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:20 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: How "Damage Points" affect your FICO credit score
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4ced51e4825bdee0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 2:16 am
From: enough

Thats why FICO and others klike them should be regulated to death,
not be allowed to play these moronic games, ans be hjeld CRIMINALY
liable for any screwups on their part. Also, it would help if
braindead robots in industry would stop buying into the FICO racket

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:28 am
From: krw

On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 02:16:04 -0800 (PST), enough
<blinkingblythe02@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thats why FICO and others klike them should be regulated to death,
>not be allowed to play these moronic games, ans be hjeld CRIMINALY
>liable for any screwups on their part. Also, it would help if
>braindead robots in industry would stop buying into the FICO racket

Of course, it would also help if you paid your bills.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Krackpot Ray Keller gets caught in his lies, public records tell the
tale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df30389fcba1b11e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:08 am
From: The Very Model of Sweetness and Light

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 00:09:14 -0500, "I M @ good guy" <I_m@good.guy> wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:15:31 -0500, The Very Model of Sweetness and Light <ye_olde_muleskinner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>"there was nothing exposed"
>>
>>http://openleft.com/diary/16237/a-deeper-look-at-global-warming-denialist-attacks
>
>
> Open Left? Does that mean ...

That means you can't dispute what the link says,
so you're descending into ad hominem fallacy.

> Anybody who calls an AGW skeptic a denier

"The reasons for using the term "skeptics" to identify some of those
who question climate science and "deniers" for others":

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/denier-vs-skeptic/

>... an arrogant fool, there is no truth...

You believe that human activities can't affect global climate,
but you have no evidence for your belief.

>if laws are broken.

Is it legal to steal emails, in your 'world'?

"Why Climate Denialists are Blind to Facts and Reason: The Role of Ideology"

http://www.celsias.com/article/why-climate-denialists-are-blind-facts-and-reason/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Indoor diy barbeques
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c79a680d8ecce233?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:21 am
From: "sam coleridge"

In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
steel rack to sit on the top.

They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
indoor barbi.

They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
them for sale in the u.k.?

Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?

== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:29 am
From: Rod

sam coleridge wrote:
> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
> steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
> indoor barbi.
>
> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
> them for sale in the u.k.?
>
> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>
>
>
One of the reasons for not having indoor barbies is that burning
charcoal can produce carbon monoxide which is somewhat poisonous.

--
Rod

== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:40 am
From: "Stewart"

If you want to use your cooker fan extractor hood then buy a "Piramid"
(maybe Pyramid) barbeque and place it overthe hob. We have had one for
years and they are superb. Quite expensive but have long guarantee.

== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:01 am
From: brooklyn1

"sam coleridge" wrote:
>
>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>steel rack to sit on the top.
>
>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>indoor barbi.
>
>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>them for sale in the u.k.?
>
>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>could use indoors?
>
>
Oh yes, make it an obligatory celebratory occasion by order of the
Queen that every UKer light their indoor charcoal burner at midnight
of New Years Eve and crawl into bed... get rid of all yoose stench
breathed rotted teeth brit bastards in one fell swoop! <G>
Ahahahahahahaha. . . .

== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:16 am
From: "Ophelia"

"brooklyn1" <gravesend10@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:t9rkh598emf4fdte67hhpc9eq2bq6qejlt@4ax.com...
> "sam coleridge" wrote:
>>
>>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a
>>stainless
>>steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>>indoor barbi.
>>
>>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>>them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>>could use indoors?
>>
>>
> Oh yes, make it an obligatory celebratory occasion by order of the
> Queen that every UKer light their indoor charcoal burner at midnight
> of New Years Eve and crawl into bed... get rid of all yoose stench
> breathed rotted teeth brit bastards in one fell swoop! <G>
> Ahahahahahahaha. . . .

Awwwwwwwww come on now SHELDUMB! You know you would miss me:))

== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 7:43 am
From: "Lou"

"sam coleridge" <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a
stainless
> steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
> indoor barbi.
>
> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
> them for sale in the u.k.?
>
> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>
If by barbeque you mean something that burns charcoal, there's a couple of
things to beware of. First, charcoal fires produce carbon monoxide, which
can be deadly. Second, a charcoal fire consumes oxygen, and in an enclosed
room the oxygen can be depleted below the concentration necessary to sustain
human life. In the US, about 25 people are killed each year from burning
charcoal indoors. See for instance
http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733793495 or
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/452.html

== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:04 am
From: garden-variety dick

On Dec 5, 8:21 am, "sam coleridge" <invalidto...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
> steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
> indoor barbi.
>
> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
> them for sale in the u.k.?
>
> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?

Most days are OK to use charcoal outside. I do it all the time here
in south western Ontario Canada. Every month of the year. You don't
need to be inside. Except for to eat.

== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:32 am
From: geoff

In message <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>, sam coleridge
<invalidtotal@mail.invalid> writes
>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>steel rack to sit on the top.
>
>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>indoor barbi.
>
>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>them for sale in the u.k.?
>
>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>
>
>
Have you never noticed the amount of smoke and burning fat generated by
a BBQ ?

--
geoff

== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 8:34 am
From: geoff

In message <hfdus0$6sd$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Lou
<lpogoda@hotmail.com> writes
>
>"sam coleridge" <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>news:hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>> base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a
>stainless
>> steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>> indoor barbi.
>>
>> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>> them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>> could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>
>If by barbeque you mean something that burns charcoal, there's a couple of
>things to beware of. First, charcoal fires produce carbon monoxide, which
>can be deadly. Second, a charcoal fire consumes oxygen, and in an enclosed
>room the oxygen can be depleted below the concentration necessary to sustain
>human life. In the US, about 25 people are killed each year from burning
>charcoal indoors.

That's the most positive reason for indoor BBQs I've come across yet

--
geoff

== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 9:27 am
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
sam coleridge <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote:
>In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
>base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
>steel rack to sit on the top.

>They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have an
>indoor barbi.

>They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has seen
>them for sale in the u.k.?

>Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that one
>could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?

Sounds similar to a hibachi; to avoid the carbon monoxide issue, there
are electric versions for tabletom use:

http://www.bbq.com/

http://www.grillpower.com/article3.html

http://www.lumaoutdoorentertaining.com/barbecues/hibachi.aspx

Lots more are just a search away...

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"Where large, expensive pieces of exotic woods are converted to valueless,
hard to dispose of sawdust, chips and scraps." Charlie B.s' definition of
woodworking.

== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 11:01 am
From: "The Medway Handyman"

geoff wrote:
> In message <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>, sam coleridge
> <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> writes
>> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches
>> square, the base being made from what i think was some kind of clay
>> and had a stainless steel rack to sit on the top.
>>
>> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have
>> an indoor barbi.
>>
>> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has
>> seen them for sale in the u.k.?
>>
>> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that
>> one could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>
>>
>>
> Have you never noticed the amount of smoke and burning fat generated
> by a BBQ ?

Would that be why we use them outside Geoff?

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 11:40 am
From: Mark Thorson

Gary Heston wrote:
>
> In article <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> sam coleridge <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> wrote:
> >In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches square, the
> >base being made from what i think was some kind of clay and had a stainless
> >steel rack to sit on the top.
>
> Sounds similar to a hibachi; to avoid the carbon monoxide issue, there
> are electric versions for tabletom use:

Sounds to me like the little grills used for
Korean bulgogi, though he did say square,
and hibachis are usually square while the
Korean bulgogi grill is usually round.
They are usually used indoors, under a hood.

== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:10 pm
From: Tony Sivori

[follow up set to misc.consumers.frugal-living]
Rod wrote:
> One of the reasons for not having indoor barbies is that burning
> charcoal can produce carbon monoxide which is somewhat poisonous.

Consider that lethal exposure is 800 Parts Per Million for two hours,
maximum permissible is 30 PPM, and the recommended level is zero. I'd say
it is more than somewhat poisonous.

--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.

== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:14 pm
From: geoff

In message <16ySm.12231$Ym4.4993@text.news.virginmedia.com>, The Medway
Handyman <davidlang@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> writes
>geoff wrote:
>> In message <hfdmol$6db$1@news.eternal-september.org>, sam coleridge
>> <invalidtotal@mail.invalid> writes
>>> In the far east recently I saw tiny barbeques about ten inches
>>> square, the base being made from what i think was some kind of clay
>>> and had a stainless steel rack to sit on the top.
>>>
>>> They could easily be placed on a kitchen hob, so that you could have
>>> an indoor barbi.
>>>
>>> They were too heavy to bring one home. I'm wondering if anyone has
>>> seen them for sale in the u.k.?
>>>
>>> Or if anybody had adapted anything to make a miniature barbeque that
>>> one could use indoors in the kitchen placed on the gas hob?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Have you never noticed the amount of smoke and burning fat generated
>> by a BBQ ?
>
>Would that be why we use them outside Geoff?
>
>
Err yes - did you miss the point ?

--
geoff

== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 12:24 pm
From: Rod

Tony Sivori wrote:
> [follow up set to misc.consumers.frugal-living]
> Rod wrote:
>> One of the reasons for not having indoor barbies is that burning
>> charcoal can produce carbon monoxide which is somewhat poisonous.
>
> Consider that lethal exposure is 800 Parts Per Million for two hours,
> maximum permissible is 30 PPM, and the recommended level is zero. I'd say
> it is more than somewhat poisonous.
>
OK. So the affinity of carbon monoxide for haemoglobin is around 700
times that of oxygen and instead of forming a loose 'association' it
forms a stable compound, carboxyhaemoglobin.

(Or that is how I remember it.)

Agreed. Horribly poisonous.

--
Rod

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The healthcare bill is so bad
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 5:30 am
From: George

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Dec 4, 12:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dave C. wrote
>>
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Dave C. wrote
>>>>>> The bills are total crap. Single payer Medicare for all is the ONLY
>>>>>> thing that will work, which is a guarantee we'll never see it in this
>>>>>> country. We can never do things that will work - hence Afganistan.
>>>>> Medicare is going to be bankrupt in a few years.
>>>> Fools have been claiming that for decades now.
>>>>> That's at current funding levels for current subscribers. If you add
>>>>> hundreds of millions of subscribers to medicare, nobody owns a
>>>>> calculator with enough digits to calculate the cost of that.
>>>> Another lie. The US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP on health
>>>> care that anywhere else in the entire world does, so universal medicare
>>>> WOULD COST MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT INSURANCE SYSTEM DOES.
>>> That must be that famous government efficiency at work, eh? -Dave
>> Nope, just avoiding the cost of all those paper shuffling apes in the insurance system and
>> the other stuff like advertising etc thats no longer needed with a single payer system.
>
> The wife of a co-worker is a doctor. He reports that she says that
> insurance company
> paperwork is ten times more onerous than the Medicare forms. If we
> had single-payer,
> privately delivered health care, doctors' offices could reduce their
> staffing because they
> wouldn't need so many paper pushers.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Trusted family member manages the backend of a large local practice. She
says the absolute biggest hassle and most complicated by far are the
government programs.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 11:11 am
From: Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply

George wrote:
>
> Trusted family member manages the backend of a large local practice. She
> says the absolute biggest hassle and most complicated by far are the
> government programs.

I sit next to the biller at the doctor's office I work for, and our
opinion is that they are both awful, but for different reasons.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal living in Russia as management goes homeless
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d865ce2beadf6228?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 5 2009 10:42 am
From: phil scott

But lately, it has seemed to some residents to be ill fated. An
Aeroflot plane from Moscow crashed on the outskirts of Perm in 2008 as
it was landing, killing 88 people. In October, a video of an out-of-
control bus ramming into numerous cars in Perm circulated widely on
the Internet.

Last month, the Perm police arrested three homeless men and charged
them with killing another man, eating part of him and trying to sell
the remainder to a restaurant

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 10 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Air bed leak - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9d48042b297850df?hl=en
* Gore can't take the HEAT - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3011896453635850?hl=en
* Various products including children's clothing recently recalled - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9ca71efb50b97cf2?hl=en
* The healthcare bill is SO bad - 3 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
* $6 for the Sunday New York Times? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a4831eba695d549c?hl=en
* Krackpot Ray Keller gets caught in his lies, public records tell the tale -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/df30389fcba1b11e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Air bed leak
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9d48042b297850df?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 3:45 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou wrote:
> "Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message
> news:hf9mf5$c3q$1@news.datemas.de...
>> Gary Heston wrote:
>>> In article <hf70ih$u33$1@news.datemas.de>, Marsha <mas@bex.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> My air bed mattress is leaking. Thought it was the box with the
>>>> motor assembly part, but tried a new one and it still leaks. So
>>>> it must be the air chamber itself. I know how to find the leak on
>>>> the air chamber, but what would I use to patch it?
>>>
>>> Is this a vinyl bladder type mattress? If so, a pool patch kit would
>>> probably work.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>
>> Yes. Your suggestion sounds reasonable.
>>
> I'd have my doubts - pool patches go on the inside of the pool, and
> the pressure of the water helps hold the patch, so the patch works
> with the pressure. Presumably you'll be putting the patch on the
> outside of the air mattress, where the patch will have to work
> against the air pressure.
>
> A bicycle tube patch might be a better choice, since these patches
> have to hold against the air pressure, but I don't know if a patch
> designed for a rubber tube (are they still rubber? for that matter,
> do bicycle tires still have tubes?) will adhere to vinyl

And bicycle tube partches are forced against the inside of tire by the air pressure too.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 4:05 pm
From: jeff

Zee wrote:
> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>> foxnews
>>
>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>
> He's human after all.

And he wasn't wrong.

Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:

http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

Note the distinct upward trend.

Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth
is cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino
temperature spike.

A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if there
are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of) but a
positive feedback (which there is evidence of):

Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of
natural climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently positive
(high climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could be
catastrophic.

The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read his
evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much worse
than Al Gore has said.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg

Jeff

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:52 pm
From: "sr"

"jeff" <jeff_thies@att.net> wrote in message
news:hfc857$gtd$1@news.albasani.net...
> Zee wrote:
>> On Dec 4, 7:01 am, "sr" <solo...@uninets.net> wrote:
>>> foxnews
>>>
>>> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in
>>> Copenhagenhttp://bit.ly/6ViAti
>>
>> He's human after all.
>
>
> And he wasn't wrong.
>
> Here is the temp chart from Dr Roy Spencer, Limbaugh's expert:
>
> http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/
>
> Note the distinct upward trend.
>
> Also note that whenever climate change skeptics say that the earth is
> cooling, they use the reference point of as the '98 El Nino temperature
> spike.
>
> A careful read and you will find that Dr Roy acknowledges that if there
> are no negative feedbacks (which there is no real evidence of) but a
> positive feedback (which there is evidence of):
>
> Negative feedbacks (low climate sensitivity) would mean that manmade
> global warming might not even be measurable, lost in the noise of natural
> climate variability. But if feedbacks are sufficiently positive (high
> climate sensitivity), then manmade global warming could be catastrophic.
>
> The best Dr Roy can say is that there are doubts, but if you read his
> evidence, it's a point for fear of climate change, indeed much worse than
> Al Gore has said.
>
> http://www.drroyspencer.com/library/pics/PDO-and-20th-Century-warming-Fig03.jpg
>
> Jeff

Cretaceous Period
144-65 million years ago The continents-while not in their current
positions on the Earth-are shaped much as they are today. South America and
Africa separate, and the Atlantic ocean widens. A circum-equatorial sea,
Tethys, forms between the continents of the Northern and Southern
Hemisphere. The westward movement of North America forms the ancestral Rocky
Mountains and the ancestral Sierra Nevada. Sea levels rise, submerging about
30% of the Earth's present land surface.
The global climate is generally warm. The poles are free of ice.

====So Jeff: Is that why, when the earth had little population, that the
oceans covered the west coast?
and parts of the East Coast? There are sea shells patterns embedded in the
rocks, here in the woods and I'm about
150 miles inland. It wasn't man that caused that water level to rise. And,
it wasn't man's
activities that cause Greenland to be Green . Man has nothing to do with
global warming nor oceans rising, it
is Nature, you imbeciles. You can take statistics and make them say anything
you wish, that is one reason
for this Hoax, other than greed,that is~
BTW,Seems Greed that has always been blamed on the Right is now a
problem for the Left, lately.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 10:13 pm
From: "sr"

"sr" <solos42@uninets.net> wrote in message
news:8143a$4b18436d$ccb58423$25174@ispn.net...
> foxnews
>
> POLITICS: Al Gore Cancels Climate Lecture in Copenhagen

> Michigan sees record snow...
DC Under Winter Weather Advisory...

Al Gore could not be reached for comment

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Various products including children's clothing recently recalled
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9ca71efb50b97cf2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 4:54 pm
From: zeez

http://consumerist.com/2009/12/recall-roundup-slim-faster-edition.html

Here's a fresh batch of recalls for you! Manufacturers have seemingly
forgotten that drawstrings on children's clothing are bad, and
bacterial contamination in Slim-Fast cans could give you far more
weight loss than you ever intended.

Cans of ready-to-drink Slim-Fast (all flavors) - bacterial
contamination
"Bobby Chupete" pacifiers - choking hazard
Children's hooded sweatshirts from Century 21 Promotions, Fashion
Options, NTD Apparel, Sunsations, and Allura Imports - strangulation
hazard
Perfect Flame SLG Gas Grills (sold at Lowe's) - Fire and Burn Hazard
EXO-Tech Safety Harness - fall hazard
Cost Plus World Market stainless steel cookware - handles can fall
off; burn hazard
Alpine Ski Bindings - bindings may release unexpectedly
Teamwork Trading pendants - high levels of lead
Electrolux ICON and Kenmore Pro 30 Gas Ranges - carbon monoxide
poisoning
Haier America blenders - laceration hazard

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The healthcare bill is SO bad
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/184b71b3f6f3da1f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 8:10 pm
From: "sr"

"zxcvbob" <zxcvbob@charter.net> wrote in message
news:7nt77eF3nbs4iU1@mid.individual.net...
> How bad is it? ;-)

-----We The People USA
Citizens Dedicated To Preserving Our Constitutional Republic

Supreme Court Has said that Congress Cannot control the Practice of
Medicine.
in Health Care Reform

Supreme Court Has said that Congress Cannot control the Practice of
Medicine.

Supreme court has said that Congress cannot control the practice of
medicine.

The Supreme Court has already spoken out against Congress making universal
health care the law of the land. Direct control of medical practice is
beyond the power of the federal government.

This is a decision of the Supreme Court, decided April 13, 1925, Linder vs.
the United States.

Then there is this case decided in 1926 that said, "Congress, therefore
cannot directly restrict the professional judgment of the physician or
interfere with its free exercise in the treatment of disease, Lambert vs.
Yellow.

You could look at Oregon vs. Ashcroft in 2004 or Conant vs. Walters in 2002.

However, they all give similar judgments restricting congress's authority
over medicine and making it clear that the states have this right not
congress. What is being debated in Congress right now is direct control and
therefore beyond the power of congress to enact. Let's flood the senate with
this information, call, email or fax them and tell them they cannot do this.
taken from WETHEPEOPLE

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:07 pm
From: "sr"

Good Grief do a google, Fine and Jail time, these are the Democrats
proposing this, the people's party
==============
I think it is 5,000 and a year jail.
---------
The only way out, is if you are an illegal, illegals get away with a lot,
you are better off being an illegal in America than
being a citizen. Laws do not apply to illegals like they do to the
citizens, if you have noticed?.
=========

"h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:hf8ijo$d1d$1@aioe.org...
>
> "Dave C." <noway@nohow.never> wrote in message
> news:20091202234742.067142ef.noway@nohow.never...
>>
>>> >
>>> > Everybody will have to switch plans from whatever they currently
>>> > have, to a much more expensive plan. (assuming you already have
>>> > private health insurance) -Dave
>>>
>>> But that only applies to those making (what I think is) a lot of
>>> money. Those of us who have been hammered by the economy will not be
>>> required to buy insurance.
>>
>> You are confused. The only people NOT required to buy insurance under
>> the various bills being discussed is the people who are voting on the
>> bills. Unless you are a Senator (for example) YOU will be required to
>> buy insurance. If you can't vote on the bill, you will be required to
>> buy insurance when the bill passes.
>>
>>> We simply can't afford it and never will
>>> be able to.
>>
>> Then you will go to prison. I wish I'd made that up. But the penalty
>> for not being able to afford the mandatory insurance coverage is stiff
>> fines...and jail time.
>
> Paranoid much? The actual proposals read pretty much like the MA current
> laws, and under those (I don't live in MA) I would NOT have to buy
> insurance. Even those who fail to buy it and can "afford it" (according to
> the state) only pay a tax of less than $800 year. Jail time, are you
> insane? PLONK!
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:14 pm
From: "sr"

"Cindy Hamilton" <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:58e2419c-98d2-4451-b989-c8c298996654@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 4, 12:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave C. wrote
>
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Dave C. wrote
> >>>> The bills are total crap. Single payer Medicare for all is the ONLY
> >>>> thing that will work, which is a guarantee we'll never see it in this
> >>>> country. We can never do things that will work - hence Afganistan.
> >>> Medicare is going to be bankrupt in a few years.
> >> Fools have been claiming that for decades now.
> >>> That's at current funding levels for current subscribers. If you add
> >>> hundreds of millions of subscribers to medicare, nobody owns a
> >>> calculator with enough digits to calculate the cost of that.
> >> Another lie. The US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP on health
> >> care that anywhere else in the entire world does, so universal medicare
> >> WOULD COST MUCH LESS THAN THE CURRENT INSURANCE SYSTEM DOES.
> > That must be that famous government efficiency at work, eh? -Dave
>
> Nope, just avoiding the cost of all those paper shuffling apes in the
> insurance system and
> the other stuff like advertising etc thats no longer needed with a single
> payer system.

The wife of a co-worker is a doctor. He reports that she says that
insurance company
paperwork is ten times more onerous than the Medicare forms. If we
had single-payer,
privately delivered health care, doctors' offices could reduce their
staffing because they
wouldn't need so many paper pushers.

Cindy Hamilton
======Crap, most of the doctors here will not take medicare clients, any
longer, they don't get reimbursed,if they do it isn't up to private pay. and
they complained, too much paper work, and there is so much regulations that
they can't give the best in their judgement.
Even the Hospitals got gipped. What will happen is, the employers will stop
carrying private insurance and just let the Government
take care of it, because Govenment doesn't have to play by the rules it sets
for the rest of society. And Government can make money out of air, unlike
the private sector

==============================================================================
TOPIC: $6 for the Sunday New York Times?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a4831eba695d549c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:03 pm
From: A VFW

I sometimes get the NYTs for free by stopping in the local store that
carries it, but does not always sell every copy. on monday they give
them away I recycle them after I read them.
try it!
who wants yesterday's paper. I do.
for the latest , I Google.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 4 2009 9:09 pm
From: "I M @ good guy"

On Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:15:31 -0500, The Very Model of Sweetness and
Light <ye_olde_muleskinner@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"there was nothing exposed"
>
>http://openleft.com/diary/16237/a-deeper-look-at-global-warming-denialist-attacks

Open Left? Does that mean "world socialist",
or just "socialist"?

The script on that page is really amazing,
trying to dilute the seriousness of violation of
laws about information and data preservation.

Anybody who calls an AGW skeptic a denier
or denialist is an arrogant fool, there is no truth
about AGW to deny, there is no certainty, and it
is time for all scientists, journalists and politicians
to take the time necessary to get to the truth,
that is what skeptics want, that is what skeptics
do.

But who knows how much more will be
revealed in government investigations, one
of the unpleasant things about working
under government contract or grants is
that government can really lower the boom
if laws are broken.

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Saturday, December 5, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 10 new messages in 6 topics - digest