Frugal Living: Dec 27, 2008

Saturday, December 27, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: .99 store complaint
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/344e32ee920ae3a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:41 am
From: The Real Bev

Goomba wrote:

> terry wrote:
>
>> Dish detergent washes hair extremely well. It's hard these days though
>> to find any that DOES NOT have that artficial 'lemony' smell. YUK!
>
> I've never seen anyone who claimed such a thing have nice looking hair,
> actually.

It probably means that people who use detergent to wash their hair visit
the barber/beauty shop only when their hair gets in their eyes and get
only a haircut AND that you regard unstyled hair as not nice-looking.

<sigh> Some people are just SO shallow...

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all
receive phone calls instructing them to love you less.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 11:28 am
From: "Rod Speed"

terry wrote:
> On Dec 26, 6:44 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> val189 wrote:
>>> With inflation, I wouldn't expect to find much for 99 cents. Since
>>> their goods are mostly junk, I don't even bother shopping there.
>>
>> That's pure snobbery and indicates that you never even tried. Give
>> it a shot, it's not likely to kill you.
>>
>> 99-Cents-Only Stores are really good. Dollar Tree not so much.
>> Big!Lots sucks. There are three or four 99-Cents-Only Stores within
>> bicycle distance of my house. WOO-HOO!
>>
>> Shampoo is shampoo and hand lotion is hand lotion; pick the scent you
>> like. Standard brands of toothpaste -- Colgate, Crest, etc. Morell
>> hot dogs and sausage. Milk (yeah, I saw the Simpsons with the rat
>> dairy). American sunblock, just with a short use-by date. Nexcare
>> duct-tape band-aids (yeah, they really DO stick well). Tons of fun stuff.

> Dish detergent washes hair extremely well.

Lot cheaper to keep it short and use ordinary soap.

> It's hard these days though to find any that DOES NOT have that artficial 'lemony' smell. YUK!

I use Pears Transparent for that reason, the only one that doesnt stink.

> Same with clothes washing detergent; hard to find
> cheap detergent without that lemon scented odour!

> PS. Don't use higly coloured dish detergent; it amy laeve
> acoloured scum that's ahrder to clean off, although that
> may depend on your water hardness or otherwise.

Another good reason to use ordinary soap.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 2:17 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper

The Real Bev wrote:
> terry wrote:
>
>> It's hard these days though
>> to find any that DOES NOT have that artficial 'lemony' smell. YUK!
>
> I bought some 99-cent strawberry-flavor shampoo which I really liked. 6
> months later they didn't have it any more. Rule: if you like something
> but several NOW.

Yeah, it took me *ages* to find more of the almond-scented soap I liked.
(I'm not thrilled about the "fruity" ones that seem to be all most of
the stores have.)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 6:10 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dave Garland wrote:

> Seerialmom wrote:
>
>> I think the OP meant the stores says "Dollar Store" but sells many
>> items "above" that price.
>
> Oh, I know. I was just tweaking them a little while answering. AFAIK
> nothing sold by Dollar Tree is more than a buck. A lot of the
> merchandise is housebrand. And some good deals... cheap hot sauce is
> usually terrible, but their habanero sauce is big bottles and pretty
> good; velcro cable ties in packages of 7, they're still a good deal
> even if the velcro comes unglued on one or two; multibit screwdrivers
> for car & toolbox, if you lose it you're not out much; cheapest place
> I know of for pretzel nuggets (14oz bags); aluminum foil pans at half
> the price of the big supermarket; sunglasses and readers.

I've bought really nice readers there -- spring hinges, no sharp edges.
The lenses have always been perfectly fine, but it's easy to tell if
they're not. Some people worry way too much about cheap stuff being
poor quality. According to the opticians who post in an appropriate
group, "good" frames are incredibly cheap in bulk ($.50-$2).

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all
receive phone calls instructing them to love you less.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 6:17 pm
From: The Real Bev

Seerialmom wrote:

> Big Lots! doesn't "always" suck; but if I can get the same item @ 99
> cent Only instead of Big Lots! I will....since I know it'll be
> cheaper. But if we want to talk about cheap stores that generally
> suck, "Stupid Prices" is my vote getter.

Never heard of that store. Where are they?

> Most of the stuff there is
> overstock from Costco or freight damage. I rarely get anything while
> there and I get rather annoyed when I see something like Lysol wipes
> and a sticker saying "regular price $9, your price $4.50" when the
> actual "regular price" is more like $5 (so I'm expecting half of that).

We had a '99% 99cents' store here for about a year before it went
belly-up. The good thing about REAL dollar stores is that you don't
have to wonder about the price :-)

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================================
"Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?"
-- Jennifer, WKRP

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 7:01 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Dec 27, 6:17 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Seerialmom wrote:
> > Big Lots! doesn't "always" suck; but if I can get the same item @ 99
> > cent Only instead of Big Lots! I will....since I know it'll be
> > cheaper. But if we want to talk about cheap stores that generally
> > suck, "Stupid Prices" is my vote getter.
>
> Never heard of that store. Where are they?
>
> > Most of the stuff there is
> > overstock from Costco or freight damage. I rarely get anything while
> > there and I get rather annoyed when I see something like Lysol wipes
> > and a sticker saying "regular price $9, your price $4.50" when the
> > actual "regular price" is more like $5 (so I'm expecting half of that).
>
> We had a '99% 99cents' store here for about a year before it went
> belly-up. The good thing about REAL dollar stores is that you don't
> have to wonder about the price :-)
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> ================================================================
> "Is there any way I can help without actually getting involved?"
> -- Jennifer, WKRP

"Stupid Prices" has about 5 stores around the Sacramento area (but
they have stores in other west coast cities, I believe they started in
Seattle). You're not missing too much though.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Your home very likely contains products created by slave labor.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0b572ee8ef647317?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 11:19 am
From: Stan de SD

On Dec 27, 7:02 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Stan de SD wrote:
> >> The charcoal he and the other labourers produce by burning scraps of
> >> hardwood will be trucked south to a blast furnace that's six hours
> >> away. It will be used there to make pig iron, a basic ingredient of
> >> steel. That pig iron will be purchased by brokers, sold to steelmakers
> >> and foundries and then purchased by some of the world's largest
> >> companies for use in cars, tractors, sinks and refrigerators made for
> >> US consumers.
>
> > I don't suppose you have ever seen the inside of a modern steel mill,
> > or any other type of large-scale industry. Steelmaking is a tightly
> > controlled process, necessary to ensure proper chemical composition,
> > hardness, ductility, etc. I seriously doubt that charcoal is being
> > used for the coking process, as carbon content is super-critical. Most
> > steel is made in electric arc furnaces nowadays, so the charcoal isn't
> > being used as a heat source. Methinks you're being fed a line of BS by
> > someone...
>
> What they described is accurate and is totally different than what you
> described (which is also quite accurate).

So the question remains: is this being used to produce commercial
steel vs. cheap low-grade cast iron for stuff like frying pans and the
like?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:52 pm
From: SilentOtto

On Dec 27, 1:45 am, Stan de SD <StanD...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The charcoal he and the other labourers produce by burning scraps of
> > hardwood will be trucked south to a blast furnace that's six hours
> > away. It will be used there to make pig iron, a basic ingredient of
> > steel. That pig iron will be purchased by brokers, sold to steelmakers
> > and foundries and then purchased by some of the world's largest
> > companies for use in cars, tractors, sinks and refrigerators made for
> > US consumers.
>
> I don't suppose you have ever seen the inside of a modern steel mill,
> or any other type of large-scale industry. Steelmaking is a tightly
> controlled process, necessary to ensure proper chemical composition,
> hardness, ductility, etc. I seriously doubt that charcoal is being
> used for the coking process, as carbon content is super-critical. Most
> steel is made in electric arc furnaces nowadays, so the charcoal isn't
> being used as a heat source. Methinks you're being fed a line of BS by
> someone...

That's why the article referenced "pig iron" rather than "steel".

Removing unwanted trace elements and controlling the carbon content
takes place at a later stage in the refinement process.

Heh heh...

Rightards...

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:53 pm
From: SilentOtto

On Dec 27, 2:19 pm, Stan de SD <StanD...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 27, 7:02 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Stan de SD wrote:
> > >> The charcoal he and the other labourers produce by burning scraps of
> > >> hardwood will be trucked south to a blast furnace that's six hours
> > >> away. It will be used there to make pig iron, a basic ingredient of
> > >> steel. That pig iron will be purchased by brokers, sold to steelmakers
> > >> and foundries and then purchased by some of the world's largest
> > >> companies for use in cars, tractors, sinks and refrigerators made for
> > >> US consumers.
>
> > > I don't suppose you have ever seen the inside of a modern steel mill,
> > > or any other type of large-scale industry. Steelmaking is a tightly
> > > controlled process, necessary to ensure proper chemical composition,
> > > hardness, ductility, etc. I seriously doubt that charcoal is being
> > > used for the coking process, as carbon content is super-critical. Most
> > > steel is made in electric arc furnaces nowadays, so the charcoal isn't
> > > being used as a heat source. Methinks you're being fed a line of BS by
> > > someone...
>
> > What they described is accurate and is totally different than what you
> > described (which is also quite accurate).
>
> So the question remains: is this being used to produce commercial
> steel vs. cheap low-grade cast iron for stuff like frying pans and the
> like?

It's being used to produce pig iron, which is later refined into
commercial steel.

Heh heh...

Rightards...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AP: Obama birth/school records found in Jakarta
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a9dcbec05844fdda?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 11:46 am
From: wismel@yahoo.com

http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...

This citizenship issue will no go away.

ted

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:37 pm
From: "Dayafter Today"

<wismel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pd1dl45kcc961ukb27bfof0e7unitbn60v@4ax.com...
> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>
> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>
> ted

Who cares?

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:57 pm
From: "Frank Arthur"

"Dayafter Today" <GWS@suckz.net> wrote in message
news:rjw5l.10324$Ei5.909@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> <wismel@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pd1dl45kcc961ukb27bfof0e7unitbn60v@4ax.com...
>> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>>
>> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>>
>> ted
>
> Who cares?
Not so sure if Abraham Lincoln was a U.S. citizen!

Obama Detractor's List

Barack Hussein Obama is:

Muslim
Evangelist supporter
Jewish President
Socialist
Communist
Marxist
Homosexual
Anti-homosexual
Gun Grabber
Not Black enough
Too Black
Foreigner non citizen
Supports revolutionaries
Baby killer
Anti-abortion
Change White House to Black House
Hires only Muslims for cabinet
Hires only Blacks for cabinet
War monger
Will give citizenship to Chicanos
Take your money and give it to others
Increase your taxes
Close up all the churches
Keep you from your own doctor
Controlled by the press
Controlled by the Zionists
Plans to destroy the USA
His 9 million dollar vacation
Will talk to Iranians
Was named Barry Soetoro
Has no birth certificate
Is really Osama bin Laden

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 1:46 pm
From: Globalist

On Dec 27, 1:46 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>
> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>
> ted

I was watching ANTIQUE ROADSHOW on PBS and some gal found a shoe box
in her grandmother's wine cellar and they are pretty sure a copy of
Obama's birth certificate was in that box, along with some batteries
and some kind of vibrating device. ..maybe a food processor, they are
not sure yet.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 4:43 pm
From: "Dayafter Today"

"Globalist" <free.tuneup@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa96ccae-96ee-4721-8929-e7c5ad5b549a@s9g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 27, 1:46 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>>
>> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>>
>> ted
>
> I was watching ANTIQUE ROADSHOW on PBS and some gal found a shoe box
> in her grandmother's wine cellar and they are pretty sure a copy of
> Obama's birth certificate was in that box, along with some batteries
> and some kind of vibrating device. ..maybe a food processor, they are
> not sure yet.

That was Condi's vibrator.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 5:21 pm
From: "Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names"

On Dec 27, 2:46 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>
> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>
> ted

There's nothing at your link. Exactly like your claim about Obama not
being a citizen -- nothing there.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 7:38 pm
From: "Dayafter Today"

"Kickin' Ass & Takin' Names" <PopUlist349@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:96238cb2-aa55-4b05-8f69-1b255face0e7@s37g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 27, 2:46 pm, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://www.daylife.com/photo/01u33pL9Ns0...
>
> This citizenship issue will no go away.
>
> ted

There's nothing at your link. Exactly like your claim about Obama not
being a citizen -- nothing there.
=================

I found it;

http://www.buckfush.com/images/George_Bush_Horse_Kick.jpg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/48cf431298caff77?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 11:52 am
From: Marco Tedaldi

John Navas schrieb:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:29:17 +0100, Marco Tedaldi
> <news0708.kruemi@spamgourmet.com> wrote in
> <gj5ohh$vbf$1@reader.motzarella.org>:
>> John Navas schrieb:
>>
>> Even it it is well know it is not really true. But I'm sure you've read
>> my replies by now :-)
>> It IS possible to make dual use of the signal lines of an standard usb
>> connector. It just needs some additional circuitry. And this costs some
>> money. A special connector on the other hand does not seem to cos much
>> more than a standard connector (if used in big enough quantities).
>
> It more a matter of risk and harm and support issues when you put the
> wrong signals on a standard USB connector. It's generally a bad idea to
> do something like that, avoided by better manufacturers.
>
Not really if correctly done. Since the Camera can detect itself if it
is connected to an USB-Port it can avoid damage. But I have to agree on
this with you. The only real solution is something, where the signals
have their own lines.
As far as I know there are even solutions where there are additional
contacts in USB-Connectors in places which are isolated normally. I
don't know if something like this would be possible with mini-USB
connectors.

And I agree with the OP that these proprietary connectors are a hassle.
I like the fact that I can use the same cable for my MP3-Player, my card
reader and also could use it for my camera (But I see no reason to
connect my camera to my computer at the moment, I just don't have the
Space for the camera on my desk).
And the second type of cable I can use for my external hard disk, for
printers and scanners.

It was the same problem a long time ago when laptops had not ethernet
port built in. You had to use a PCMCIA card with a proprietary pigtail
(which tended to break when used often) until they came up with the
RealPort cards (I can't remember the manufacturer anymore).

A proprietary cable is no problem as long as you don't break it, loose
it or are in a situation where you unexpectedly have to connect your
device to another computer.

kruemi

--
Dimage A2, Agfa isolette
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 11:59 am
From: John Navas

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:52:54 +0100, Marco Tedaldi
<news0708.kruemi@spamgourmet.com> wrote in
<gj60vk$ip5$1@reader.motzarella.org>:

>John Navas schrieb:

>> It more a matter of risk and harm and support issues when you put the
>> wrong signals on a standard USB connector. It's generally a bad idea to
>> do something like that, avoided by better manufacturers.
>>
>Not really if correctly done. Since the Camera can detect itself if it
>is connected to an USB-Port it can avoid damage. But I have to agree on
>this with you. The only real solution is something, where the signals
>have their own lines.
>As far as I know there are even solutions where there are additional
>contacts in USB-Connectors in places which are isolated normally. I
>don't know if something like this would be possible with mini-USB
>connectors.

It's not possible -- all pins are taken. Likewise Micro-USB.

>A proprietary cable is no problem as long as you don't break it, loose
>it or are in a situation where you unexpectedly have to connect your
>device to another computer.

I use a USB card reader/writer. Avoids any cable issue altogether.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:50 pm
From: Marco Tedaldi

John Navas schrieb:
> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:52:54 +0100, Marco Tedaldi
> <news0708.kruemi@spamgourmet.com> wrote in
> <gj60vk$ip5$1@reader.motzarella.org>:
>
>> John Navas schrieb:
>
>>> It more a matter of risk and harm and support issues when you put the
>>> wrong signals on a standard USB connector. It's generally a bad idea to
>>> do something like that, avoided by better manufacturers.
>>>
>> Not really if correctly done. Since the Camera can detect itself if it
>> is connected to an USB-Port it can avoid damage. But I have to agree on
>> this with you. The only real solution is something, where the signals
>> have their own lines.
>> As far as I know there are even solutions where there are additional
>> contacts in USB-Connectors in places which are isolated normally. I
>> don't know if something like this would be possible with mini-USB
>> connectors.
>
> It's not possible -- all pins are taken. Likewise Micro-USB.
>
On mini-USB the 5 contacts are on one side of this platic thingie. So it
would be possible to add some additional contacts and use them for
A/V-Stuff.

Or the contacts could be used for USB and A/V.
In both cases the manufacturer has to supply 2 cables. One is the normal
USB cable (With mini USB connector, nothing fancy) and an AV-Cable with
an mini-USB Plug on one side and the A/V-Connectors on the other end.
This cable would be completely proprietary and could also contain some
circuitry that let's the camera detect which cable is connected (a
resistor in the simplest case, some active electronics do do more fancy
stuff).
This way the customer can't break anything in the camera nor in the
computer. The only problem could be if someone tried to get A/V-Signals
out of his card reader with the proprietary A/V-Cable :-)

>> A proprietary cable is no problem as long as you don't break it, loose
>> it or are in a situation where you unexpectedly have to connect your
>> device to another computer.
>
> I use a USB card reader/writer. Avoids any cable issue altogether.
>
Built in card reader in my computer, portable card reader in my bag or
backpack (which I almost always have with me). No problems, except at my
workplace where the computer only has USB-connectors at the back and I
have to crawl under my desk to connect it. :-)

Maybe UWB will solve all these problems.. (I believe it when I see it)

kruemi

--
Dimage A2, Agfa isolette, EOS 40D
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708

==============================================================================
TOPIC: poverty line
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4eaa805a9a816468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 12:20 pm
From: "Strider"

"Marsha" <mas@xeb.net> wrote in message news:gj3ame$l4b$1@news.datemas.de...
> The Real Bev wrote:
>> Another big problem is that if you have no job skills already (be on time,
>> show up every day, don't dress weird, etc.) you're not likely to be able
>> to learn something that will qualify you for more than a minimum wage job,
>> which is nowhere near enough to raise the kids you already have.
>>
>> How do you make sure that THIS generation of hopeless losers is the last?
>>
>
> Sterilization?

Every generation has had its hopeless losers. The difference is, decent
people once shunned them, so they used to quietly die off without reproducing
(self-sterilization, if you will). Now we have a massive welfare state that
encourages & rewards the HLs, along with a perverted "culture" that glorifies
them. So naturally they breed with wild abandon (the black illegitimacy rate
is ~70%), thereby creating even more HLs. Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY)
warned about the impending catastrophe, but his own party demonized him as a
"racist" and ignored him in their quest for black votes. (LBJ reportedly
crowed to his advisors after signing his welfare bills, "We [Democrats] just
locked up the nigger vote for the next 100 years!")

Nor did previous generations have to contend with uncontrolled 3rd World
immigration. Instead of allowing in only the best and brightest, we now
import the worst and dullest. Another "Great Society" legacy, just in case
the welfare state didn't create enough home-grown HLs.

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 3:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Strider wrote
> Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote

>>> Another big problem is that if you have no job skills already (be
>>> on time, show up every day, don't dress weird, etc.) you're not
>>> likely to be able to learn something that will qualify you for more
>>> than a minimum wage job, which is nowhere near enough to raise the kids you already have.

>>> How do you make sure that THIS generation of hopeless losers is the last?

>> Sterilization?

> Every generation has had its hopeless losers.

Yes.

> The difference is, decent people once shunned them, so they used to quietly die off without reproducing
> (self-sterilization, if you will).

Never happened in enough numbers to matter.

> Now we have a massive welfare state that encourages & rewards the HLs, along with a perverted "culture" that glorifies
> them. So naturally they breed with wild abandon (the black illegitimacy rate is ~70%),

It always was that high amoungst the dregs.

> thereby creating even more HLs. Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) warned about the impending catastrophe, but his
> own party demonized him as a "racist" and ignored him in their quest for black votes.

Plenty said the same thing about his irish ancestors.

> (LBJ reportedly crowed to his advisors after signing his welfare bills, "We [Democrats] just locked up the nigger vote
> for the next 100 years!")

He also claimed that they had lost the white vote too.

> Nor did previous generations have to contend with uncontrolled 3rd World immigration.

While they many not have come from the 3rd world, they did come from
the dregs of the first world, like ireland and eastern europe in huge numbers.

And there's the tiny matter of all those slaves from the 3rd world too.

> Instead of allowing in only the best and brightest, we now import the worst and dullest.

Another pig ignorant lie. There are still plenty of the best and brightest allowed in.

> Another "Great Society" legacy,

Just your pig ignorant fantasy, actually.

> just in case the welfare state didn't create enough home-grown HLs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free energy homes?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/23a9eb69b1ceaa92?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 1:14 pm
From: "'nam vet."

In article <f1pcl4pe0hpkqvelfvcr8urnrtlugp5hbf@4ax.com>,
trudogg <independent@long.last> wrote:

> I've wondered vaguely for a while why you couldn't build a house that
> was basically vacuum sealed and thus needed almost nothing in the way
> of heating and cooling. But it turns out you can, and ground zero for
> research into "passive houses" is the Passivhaus Institut in
> Darmstadt, Germany, when I spent a couple of nights just a few months
> ago. The New York Times reports:
>
> The concept of the passive house, pioneered in this city of
> 140,000 outside Frankfurt, approaches the challenge from a different
> angle. Using ultrathick insulation and complex doors and windows, the
> architect engineers a home encased in an airtight shell, so that
> barely any heat escapes and barely any cold seeps in. That means a
> passive house can be warmed not only by the sun, but also by the heat
> from appliances and even from occupants' bodies.
>
> ....Decades ago, attempts at creating sealed solar-heated homes
> failed, because of stagnant air and mold. But new passive houses use
> an ingenious central ventilation system. The warm air going out passes
> side by side with clean, cold air coming in, exchanging heat with 90
> percent efficiency.
>
> ....In Germany the added construction costs of passive houses are
> modest and, because of their growing popularity and an ever larger
> array of attractive off-the-shelf components, are shrinking.
>
> But the sophisticated windows and heat-exchange ventilation
> systems needed to make passive houses work properly are not readily
> available in the United States. So the construction of passive houses
> in the United States, at least initially, is likely to entail a higher
> price differential.
>
> Interesting stuff. Old news to some, but new to me, and probably new
> to a few of you as well. More passive houses, please.
>
> Kevin Drum

What an appropriate time to post this.
This is the time in the Northern hemisphere to seek out the sites for a
home ,when the sun is the lowest in the sky,
Any Solar project begins with Insolation. A good site makes Solar
possible.
That's what sealed the deal on the 1/4 acre we bought a few years ago.
Southern Exposure. Search; Micro-Climates.
Good hunting.
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.
--
When the Power of Love,replaces the Love of Power.
that's Evolution.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Don't forget, YOU may end up homeless and you will end up getting spat
on like you did to the homeless.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/409073ca23af5885?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 2:44 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

ultimauw@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 24, 12:34 pm, "Strider" <fgevqre1...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
>> "Shawn Hirn" <s...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:srhi-628AAC.10083724122008@74.sub-97-136-209.myvzw.com...
>>
>>> I think it sucks, but it seems to me that in many situations,
>>> employees can see the writing on the wall. Unless the bosses are
>>> cooking the books, when business drops significantly, any employee
>>> who doesn't notice that and doesn't start thinking about his or her
>>> job security is living in an alternate reality.
>>
>> True. Newspapers are notorious for folding with very little advance
>> notice. In Dec. 1991 the Dallas Times Herald announced its demise on
>> a Sunday afternoon. The paper published its final edition the next
>> day. It was hardly a surprise, though -- they'd been in the
>> proverbial "downward spiral" for a couple of years at least. I've
>> read instances of editors sending the completed pages to the
>> pressroom, then having the publisher arrive in the newsroom an hour
>> later saying "You've just published the last issue."
>>
>> Back in college a classmate had been chosen for a summer internship
>> at an out-of-town newspaper. A week or two before he was scheduled
>> to report, the paper abruptly folded. No one so much as hinted to
>> him that any trouble was afoot.

> The Orthodox Capitalists who love to crow about how the homeless are
> druggies, idiots, immoral sub human creatures need to take note of
> this and realize that they too may be walking the streets eating out
> of soup kitchens if/when their company decides to close down, and
> sometimes close down abruptly.

Anyone with a clue ensures that they cant lose their house even if they do lose their
job or will have somewhere to live, even if it isnt as desirable as they would like etc.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 7:09 pm
From: Mr smiley happy sock puppet

On Dec 27, 2:44 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Dec 24, 12:34 pm, "Strider" <fgevqre1...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
> >> "Shawn Hirn" <s...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >>news:srhi-628AAC.10083724122008@74.sub-97-136-209.myvzw.com...
>
> >>> I think it sucks, but it seems to me that in many situations,
> >>> employees can see the writing on the wall. Unless the bosses are
> >>> cooking the books, when business drops significantly, any employee
> >>> who doesn't notice that and doesn't start thinking about his or her
> >>> job security is living in an alternate reality.
>
> >> True. Newspapers are notorious for folding with very little advance
> >> notice. In Dec. 1991 the Dallas Times Herald announced its demise on
> >> a Sunday afternoon. The paper published its final edition the next
> >> day. It was hardly a surprise, though -- they'd been in the
> >> proverbial "downward spiral" for a couple of years at least. I've
> >> read instances of editors sending the completed pages to the
> >> pressroom, then having the publisher arrive in the newsroom an hour
> >> later saying "You've just published the last issue."
>
> >> Back in college a classmate had been chosen for a summer internship
> >> at an out-of-town newspaper. A week or two before he was scheduled
> >> to report, the paper abruptly folded. No one so much as hinted to
> >> him that any trouble was afoot.
> > The Orthodox Capitalists who love to crow about how the homeless are
> > druggies, idiots, immoral sub human creatures need to take note of
> > this and realize that they too may be walking the streets eating out
> > of soup kitchens if/when their company decides to close down, and
> > sometimes close down abruptly.
>
> Anyone with a clue ensures that they cant lose their house even if they do lose their
> job or will have somewhere to live, even if it isnt as desirable as they would like etc.

You might want to read up on the Great Depression.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What minor frugal change did you make this year?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 5:04 pm
From: phil scott

On Dec 27, 8:58 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> phil scott wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 11:06 am, val189 <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >> On Dec 24, 6:39 pm, info_at_1-script_dot_...@foo.com (spendwize.com)
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Letting the power company turn off your water heater and a/c at their will
> >>> could be risky. It is possible that if you request that they turn either
> >>> back on you could be hit with a reconnect or restart charge.
> >> No - I don't do any requesting. They remotely disrupt the water
> >> heater and a/c for no more than 15 minutes at a time, no more than x
> >> number of times a day ( I forget how often), and there's an annual
> >> limit too. It's all done remotely by the power company. I never
> >> notice these interruptions. There was absolutely no fee to set this
> >> up either. Win - win.
>
> > I think you get a 10% rate cut as a reward also?
>
> > On an oposite front... PG and E (pacific gas and electric) in calif..
> > has 3 tier rates for homes, but not businesses. business gets the
> > low rates.
>
> I was just looking at the pge residential tariff:
>
> http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf
>
> It lists 10 different baseline region territories but doesn't describe
> where they are. What makes these regions unique?
>
> The electric rates in our part of PA are on the low side. We typically
> use ~470 kwh/month. I picked a median baseline and the multiplier for
> exceeding the baseline and it is comparable to what we pay.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Homes the the low rate for their 'base use', (set at enough to run yer
> > cell phone charger and the bathroom lights if you down dwandle in the
> > john). 11 cents a KWH,
> > if you go over that you hit the mid rate range, amost doulbe in most
> > cases, so that ends up to be the effective rate if you are furgal as
> > hell...if you use such things as a TV, hair drier and portch light,
> > you hit the 35 cents a Kwh range... this has doubled or tripled most
> > peoples bill since it was instituted.
>
> > Frugally speaking you must declare your home to be a business,
> > accounting, on line services, HQ for your contracting, baby sitting or
> > drug running operation... then you get the low rates.
>
> > Phil scott- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

yes and its a rip off... up 300% in terms of the monthly bill over the
last 3 years.
and its done with this low base rate, but normal usage is a lot more
than that.

Just because you are being ripped off as bad as those in california,
equity between the states, does not mean that these utility companies
have not run yet another scam us.

Previous to this the rate was the same no matter how much you
used...now it doubles or triples as use goes into normal ranges...

Phil scott

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:38 pm
From: John Navas

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:29:47 -0800, Pat Cheney <pcheney@ymail.com> wrote
in <KRk5l.11147$x%.3828@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>:

>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:02:49 -0800, John Navas wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, that misses the point of having a dual connector. Had
>> Casio used standard Mini-USB, then it would have had to make room and
>> cost for another connector for A/V.
>
>Hi John,
>Yes. This is well known to you that a dual-purpose camera port can't
>possibly use the mini-USB connector ... even if the Camera manufacturer
>says it's a USB port ... but I would guess it is not well known to the rest
>of us.

It is well-known, and what Casio said is correct.

>Now that we know a dual port can't possibly be mini-USB or micro-USB even
>though it says it's USB, we can now steer clear of any camera that uses a
>single port for AV and USB purposes.

That makes no sense to me.

>That's the secret decoder ring we needed!

It's not a secret, no matter what you think.

>In my particular case, I have never used the supplied AV cable with any
>camera (I have a stack of them in a box somewhere), including the days when
>the kids were young and I used the old-style tape-based video cameras.

Part of why you're uninformed and mistaken.

>So, I learned from you John, for which I thank you.

You're welcome.

>For me, if it says it handles both AV and USB in the same port, I don't
>want that camera!

Suit yourself, but I think that's a poor primary criterion.

>Had we only known before we bought the camera (sorry, I still fault the
>reviewers for not making what is obvious to you clear to us).

You do yourself no credit by being unwilling to take responsibility for
your own mistaken assumption that you could and should have easily
checked before purchase, but failed to do so. I'm shaking my head.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 9:29 am
From: Marco Tedaldi

John Navas schrieb:

>> Yes. This is well known to you that a dual-purpose camera port can't
>> possibly use the mini-USB connector ... even if the Camera manufacturer
>> says it's a USB port ... but I would guess it is not well known to the rest
>> of us.
>
> It is well-known, and what Casio said is correct.
>
Even it it is well know it is not really true. But I'm sure you've read
my replies by now :-)
It IS possible to make dual use of the signal lines of an standard usb
connector. It just needs some additional circuitry. And this costs some
money. A special connector on the other hand does not seem to cos much
more than a standard connector (if used in big enough quantities).

[rest snipped away since it's based on a not necessary true assumption]

kruemi
--
Dimage A2, Agfa isolette, EOS 40D
http://flickr.com/photos/kruemi
And a cool timekiller: http://www.starpirates.net/register.php?referer=9708

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 9:54 am
From: John Navas

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 18:29:17 +0100, Marco Tedaldi
<news0708.kruemi@spamgourmet.com> wrote in
<gj5ohh$vbf$1@reader.motzarella.org>:

>John Navas schrieb:
>
>>> Yes. This is well known to you that a dual-purpose camera port can't
>>> possibly use the mini-USB connector ... even if the Camera manufacturer
>>> says it's a USB port ... but I would guess it is not well known to the rest
>>> of us.
>>
>> It is well-known, and what Casio said is correct.
>>
>Even it it is well know it is not really true. But I'm sure you've read
>my replies by now :-)
>It IS possible to make dual use of the signal lines of an standard usb
>connector. It just needs some additional circuitry. And this costs some
>money. A special connector on the other hand does not seem to cos much
>more than a standard connector (if used in big enough quantities).

It more a matter of risk and harm and support issues when you put the
wrong signals on a standard USB connector. It's generally a bad idea to
do something like that, avoided by better manufacturers.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:15 am
From: SMS

Marco Tedaldi wrote:

> It IS possible to make dual use of the signal lines of an standard usb
> connector. It just needs some additional circuitry. And this costs some
> money. A special connector on the other hand does not seem to cos much
> more than a standard connector (if used in big enough quantities).

The increase in circuitry cost is minimal if they're doing a custom IC
for the camera anyway. The sense pin is present on the 5 pin mini-USB
connector already.

I did a design of an IC where the floppy disc controller pins were
shared with the parallel port signals, and the floppy signals were
routed out those pins when another pin was grounded. It was for a
notebook computer maker that wanted to have an external floppy drive,
but not add any extra connectors. As long as a normal printer cable was
plugged in, the floppy signals never appeared on the pins. Plug in the
floppy, and and ungrounded ground pin on the laptop side was pulled high
and the floppy signals were routed to the pins.

I didn't like the whole idea. If a printer cable manufacturer had
cheaped out and not included all the ground wires in the Centronics
cable then it would have been bad. But apparently my fears were
ungrounded (no pun intended) as the system worked well, and it was big
selling point for this company to be able to offer floppy support on its
small notebooks (this was before USB came along).

If camera makers want to do this sort of thing, then they should
standardize the mini-USB-AV cable among brands.

I would probably not buy a camera with the type of connector Casio used
because I hate proprietary cables and having to carry them around.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:36 am
From: John Navas

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 10:15:02 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <Ufu5l.9751$as4.4455@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>:

>Marco Tedaldi wrote:
>
>> It IS possible to make dual use of the signal lines of an standard usb
>> connector. It just needs some additional circuitry. And this costs some
>> money. A special connector on the other hand does not seem to cos much
>> more than a standard connector (if used in big enough quantities).
>
>The increase in circuitry cost is minimal if they're doing a custom IC
>for the camera anyway. The sense pin is present on the 5 pin mini-USB
>connector already.

It's not a "sense pin" and doesn't work that way -- it's the ID pin.

>If camera makers want to do this sort of thing, then they should
>standardize the mini-USB-AV cable among brands.

There's really no need to do that.

>I would probably not buy a camera with the type of connector Casio used
>because I hate proprietary cables and having to carry them around.

Not a big deal. No need to carry a cable at all.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:15 am
From: Elesee

On Dec 26, 10:04 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://socialinvest.org/directory/
>
> Who Uses Slave Labor?
> Forced labor has become both a form a torture and a source of great
> profit for China. ...

Tell it to China. Tell it Brazil. Maybe you can petition these
countries to flag these products with, "Made by slaves."

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 7:02 am
From: George

Stan de SD wrote:
>> The charcoal he and the other labourers produce by burning scraps of
>> hardwood will be trucked south to a blast furnace that's six hours
>> away. It will be used there to make pig iron, a basic ingredient of
>> steel. That pig iron will be purchased by brokers, sold to steelmakers
>> and foundries and then purchased by some of the world's largest
>> companies for use in cars, tractors, sinks and refrigerators made for
>> US consumers.
>
> I don't suppose you have ever seen the inside of a modern steel mill,
> or any other type of large-scale industry. Steelmaking is a tightly
> controlled process, necessary to ensure proper chemical composition,
> hardness, ductility, etc. I seriously doubt that charcoal is being
> used for the coking process, as carbon content is super-critical. Most
> steel is made in electric arc furnaces nowadays, so the charcoal isn't
> being used as a heat source. Methinks you're being fed a line of BS by
> someone...

What they described is accurate and is totally different than what you
described (which is also quite accurate).

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:38 am
From: Patriot Games

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:04:33 -0800 (PST), ultimauw@gmail.com wrote:
>Re: Your home very likely contains products created by slave labor.

No. Not "very likely."

I absolutely GUARANTEE my home contains products made by slaves
because I ALWAYS look for products made by slaves FIRST.

I love having products made by slaves!

I love having slaves make products for me!

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:23 am
From: Elesee

On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 24, 12:34 pm, "Strider" <fgevqre1...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
>
> bee ess article deleted

>
> > Strider
>
> The Orthodox Capitalists who love to crow about how the homeless are
> druggies, idiots, immoral sub human creatures need to take note of
> this and realize that they too may be walking the streets eating out
> of soup kitchens if/when their company decides to close down, and
> sometimes close down abruptly.- Hide quoted text -
>

So, what do the un-Orthodox Capitalists say?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 7:08 am
From: George

Stan de SD wrote:

>
> If you don't like America and/or free-market economics yourself, fine.

But that is just a myth. I am a conservative and I do like America

If we had free market economics the Congress wouldn't have just voted to
pick our pockets to bail out the fat cats on wall street and in the
banking industry. Those folks would have done the right thing and walked
away in embarrassment and shame to try again. Same with the "big three"
Rick Wagoner would have fallen on his sword, the lights at gm would go
dim and a better version would rise from the ashes.

We do not have a free-market in the US.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are you getting lower credit card rates?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a3a47717d0f9893a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 12:42 am
From: Elesee

On Dec 26, 9:39 am, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In August my Chase card changed from 21% to 16%+prime. I don't know
> what prime is but I assume it must be a lot lower now than August.
>
> What is your interest rate now?

I use MC and Visa, and I don't know. Visa gives me an annual rebate,
so I guess they're paying me. Not paying off credit card balances on a
monthly basis seems a very unfrugal way to live.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Profession Wholesale world famous brand bag(handbags) 25$-30$
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d27c1295fd0dbaaf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 3:35 am
From: online shop

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babouska Studded Boston Bag G-207299, Replica Chloe Milton Hobo Bag
Handbags Copys, Chloe Boudior chain Bag Purses Gucci Pelham Shoulder
Bag G-203624 knockoff bag www.cicigogo.cn
Chanel Bags www.cicigogo.cn
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LV Handbags
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LV Men's Bags
LV Other Series
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Gucci Canvas Bags
Gucci Replica Bags
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Mulberry
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Chloe
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Balenciaga
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Fendi
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Other Bags
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Jimmy Choo Bags
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Juicy Couture Bags
Isabella Fiore Bags
Tod's Bags www.cicigogo.cn
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Kooba Handbags
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Wallet www.cicigogo.cn
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Chloe Wallets
Replica BV Wallets
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Other Brand Wallet
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Tiffany Jewelry www.cicigogo.cn
Tiffany Necklaces
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Swarovski Jewelry www.cicigogo.cn
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Swarovski Bracelet

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Excellent After Christmas Sales on Websites
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fb05c8ad15b5f7d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 5:59 am
From: Goomba

I love Coldwater Creek clothing (stores and catalog/webpages) and often
get incredible deals via the online "outlet". They're having a great
sale right now with 50% off your order when you use the "savebig" word
in the coupon spot on checkout. This includes regular, sale and outlet
prices. Worth checking out if you're in to their clothes and good sales-
www.coldwatercreek.com

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 6:24 am
From: "NancyR"

> 99-Cents-Only Stores are really good. Dollar Tree not so much.
Dollar Tree does have good inkjet photo paper. The 4 x 6 pack has 20 sheets
& the 8.5 x 11 has 8 sheets. The other stores of this type may also have
photo paper, but none are anywhere close to me.

Nancy

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:27 am
From: val189

On Dec 26, 4:44 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> val189 wrote:
> > With inflation, I wouldn't expect to find much for 99 cents. Since
> > their goods are mostly junk, I don't even bother shopping there.
>
> That's pure snobbery and indicates that you never even tried. Give it a
> shot, it's not likely to kill you.
>
> 99-Cents-Only Stores are really good. Dollar Tree not so much.
> Big!Lots sucks. There are three or four 99-Cents-Only Stores within
> bicycle distance of my house. WOO-HOO!
>
> Shampoo is shampoo and hand lotion is hand lotion; pick the scent you
> like. Standard brands of toothpaste -- Colgate, Crest, etc. Morell hot
> dogs and sausage. Milk (yeah, I saw the Simpsons with the rat dairy).
> American sunblock, just with a short use-by date. Nexcare duct-tape
> band-aids (yeah, they really DO stick well). Tons of fun stuff.
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev

Oh Bev - it's NOT snobbery. It's experience. Watered down dish
liquid, knockoff stuff - I've been stuck before. Try a quality salon
shampoo someday and see the difference. See how a dime size amount
goes far. RIght now I can get a BOGO on a salon shampoo and the two
bottles will last prob. into 2010.

Big Lots and their ilk are another story. I cruise mine once a week
and find good deals if I really search. Recently DeCecco pasta - 1.30.
It's 3.99 in my supermkt.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:38 am
From: The Real Bev

terry wrote:

> On Dec 26, 6:44 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> val189 wrote:
>> > With inflation, I wouldn't expect to find much for 99 cents. Since
>> > their goods are mostly junk, I don't even bother shopping there.
>>
>> That's pure snobbery and indicates that you never even tried. Give it a
>> shot, it's not likely to kill you.
>>
>> 99-Cents-Only Stores are really good. Dollar Tree not so much.
>> Big!Lots sucks. There are three or four 99-Cents-Only Stores within
>> bicycle distance of my house. WOO-HOO!
>>
>> Shampoo is shampoo and hand lotion is hand lotion; pick the scent you
>> like. Standard brands of toothpaste -- Colgate, Crest, etc. Morell hot
>> dogs and sausage. Milk (yeah, I saw the Simpsons with the rat dairy).
>> American sunblock, just with a short use-by date. Nexcare duct-tape
>> band-aids (yeah, they really DO stick well). Tons of fun stuff.
>
> Dish detergent washes hair extremely well.

I used to use Dawn with no problems. It doesn't smell good, though.
Crystal Light (REALLY cheap) is just as good, and there used to be a
non-lemon version. I decided that since I use 1 or 2 tablespoons per
week, economy is not necessarily all that important. This, however,
does NOT mean I buy the expensive "high-end" stuff that contains the
same stuff as the cheap stuff.

> It's hard these days though
> to find any that DOES NOT have that artficial 'lemony' smell. YUK!

I bought some 99-cent strawberry-flavor shampoo which I really liked. 6
months later they didn't have it any more. Rule: if you like something
but several NOW.

> Same with clothes washing detergent; hard to find cheap detergent
> without that lemon scented odour!

Kirkland Tide-analog is fine.

> PS. Don't use higly coloured dish detergent; it amy laeve acoloured
> scum that's ahrder to clean off, although that may depend on your
> water hardness or otherwise.

Yeah, like I'd notice!

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all
receive phone calls instructing them to love you less.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:41 am
From: The Real Bev

Goomba wrote:

<sigh> Some people are just SO shallow...

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all
receive phone calls instructing them to love you less.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Really cheap tube TV's.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2ba22ba2916253d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 7:39 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

On Dec 27, 2:28 am, meow2...@care2.com wrote:
> MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> > James wrote:
> > > I see many good TV's on curbs because of the new flat TV's as well as
> > > HDTV standard. Why not pick up a good free TV and just buy a
> > > convertion box?
>
> > > My next door neighbor tossed a very good TV but I wasn't thinking at
> > > the time. Of course it was taken by the time I decided to take it.
>
> > Sure it will work, but does that make it cheap? I have not done a
> > comparison on power with the new TV's versus a CRT, but I did before
> > purchasing this monitor. The new monitor uses 35W and the old one used
> > 275W. By the time the warranty is up on the new monitor, it will have
> > saved the price compared to what the old tube used. I pitched it like
> > an old TV.
>
> Most CRT monitors eat more like 70w, and even with extensive use the
> extra power they eat compared to an LCD is only a small fraction of
> the cost of going LCD. TV power use is similar - you'd need a real
> monster to eat 275w, and even then that would most likely be max power
> at cinema volume levels rather than mean power, so the wrong figure
> for comparison.
>
> NT

I have a stack of CRTs here and not one under 250W. No, I do not have
any 12" Apple 2e models though.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:16 am
From: "TKM"

<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
news:0f6fe883-4cef-436f-a832-04fe4750a7df@w1g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> James wrote:
>> I see many good TV's on curbs because of the new flat TV's as well as
>> HDTV standard. Why not pick up a good free TV and just buy a
>> convertion box?
>>
>> My next door neighbor tossed a very good TV but I wasn't thinking at
>> the time. Of course it was taken by the time I decided to take it.
>
> Sure it will work, but does that make it cheap? I have not done a
> comparison on power with the new TV's versus a CRT, but I did before
> purchasing this monitor. The new monitor uses 35W and the old one used
> 275W. By the time the warranty is up on the new monitor, it will have
> saved the price compared to what the old tube used. I pitched it like
> an old TV.

But do check the wattage. A plasma flat-screen TV can use 200-400 watts.

TKM

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.iofferkicks.com china cheap wholesale nike shoes,air jordan shoes,
air force one shoes.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2e88fe97e53d6e6b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 8:39 am
From: phil scott

On Dec 26, 11:06 am, val189 <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Dec 24, 6:39 pm, info_at_1-script_dot_...@foo.com (spendwize.com)
> wrote:
>
> > Letting the power company turn off your water heater and a/c at their will
> > could be risky. It is possible that if you request that they turn either
> > back on you could be hit with a reconnect or restart charge.
>
> No - I don't do any requesting. They remotely disrupt the water
> heater and a/c for no more than 15 minutes at a time, no more than x
> number of times a day ( I forget how often), and there's an annual
> limit too. It's all done remotely by the power company. I never
> notice these interruptions. There was absolutely no fee to set this
> up either. Win - win.

I think you get a 10% rate cut as a reward also?

On an oposite front... PG and E (pacific gas and electric) in calif..
has 3 tier rates for homes, but not businesses. business gets the
low rates.

Homes the the low rate for their 'base use', (set at enough to run yer
cell phone charger and the bathroom lights if you down dwandle in the
john). 11 cents a KWH,
if you go over that you hit the mid rate range, amost doulbe in most
cases, so that ends up to be the effective rate if you are furgal as
hell...if you use such things as a TV, hair drier and portch light,
you hit the 35 cents a Kwh range... this has doubled or tripled most
peoples bill since it was instituted.

Frugally speaking you must declare your home to be a business,
accounting, on line services, HQ for your contracting, baby sitting or
drug running operation... then you get the low rates.

Phil scott

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 8:58 am
From: George

phil scott wrote:
> On Dec 26, 11:06 am, val189 <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> On Dec 24, 6:39 pm, info_at_1-script_dot_...@foo.com (spendwize.com)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Letting the power company turn off your water heater and a/c at their will
>>> could be risky. It is possible that if you request that they turn either
>>> back on you could be hit with a reconnect or restart charge.
>> No - I don't do any requesting. They remotely disrupt the water
>> heater and a/c for no more than 15 minutes at a time, no more than x
>> number of times a day ( I forget how often), and there's an annual
>> limit too. It's all done remotely by the power company. I never
>> notice these interruptions. There was absolutely no fee to set this
>> up either. Win - win.
>
> I think you get a 10% rate cut as a reward also?
>
>
> On an oposite front... PG and E (pacific gas and electric) in calif..
> has 3 tier rates for homes, but not businesses. business gets the
> low rates.

I was just looking at the pge residential tariff:

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf

It lists 10 different baseline region territories but doesn't describe
where they are. What makes these regions unique?

The electric rates in our part of PA are on the low side. We typically
use ~470 kwh/month. I picked a median baseline and the multiplier for
exceeding the baseline and it is comparable to what we pay.

>
> Homes the the low rate for their 'base use', (set at enough to run yer
> cell phone charger and the bathroom lights if you down dwandle in the
> john). 11 cents a KWH,
> if you go over that you hit the mid rate range, amost doulbe in most
> cases, so that ends up to be the effective rate if you are furgal as
> hell...if you use such things as a TV, hair drier and portch light,
> you hit the 35 cents a Kwh range... this has doubled or tripled most
> peoples bill since it was instituted.
>
>
> Frugally speaking you must declare your home to be a business,
> accounting, on line services, HQ for your contracting, baby sitting or
> drug running operation... then you get the low rates.
>
>
> Phil scott

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:19 am
From: SMS

OhioGuy wrote:

> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?

Switched from NFC to FC for OJ.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Compact Flourescent bulbs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c541905216cc4817?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:16 am
From: "TKM"

"Macuser" <spamisaluncheon@meat.com> wrote in message
news:3az4l.991$Es4.760@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>I heard the big story about CF light bulbs having mercury, long after I had
>a broken one, or two, and cleaned up the mess with an ordinary broom and
>dust pan. Nobody died. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
>
> --
> http://cashcuddler.com
>
> "Thrift is sexy." ;)

The potential for mercury poisoning from a broken CFL is, IMHO, overblown.
Yes, children are more sensitive to mercury and so a clean-up in a house
with children should be prompt and thorough. In other cases, however,
follow common-sense recommendations. The best that I've found are at:
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/index.htm and for CFLs specifically at:
http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent

TKM

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wanna be depressed?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d7707daeed27d957?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 27 2008 10:31 am
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote
>
>>> Who among us has not thrown out better stuff than this?
>
>>> http://stores.ebay.com/KPsurplusDotCom
>
>> They have lots of exotic stuff that we wouldn't be likely to have used, but what caught my attention was the
>> Racal-Vadic acoustic modem for $519.00.
>
> I've go one of those, different brand.

I've got two of a different brand, brand new, in boxes. Just wait, when
the broadband system collapses I'LL BE READY!

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Children, your performance was miserable. Your parents will all
receive phone calls instructing them to love you less.

==============================================================================

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 21 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 3:34 pm
From: John Doe

Try the dollar store, I've heard it's better.
haha

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 4:26 pm
From: Auntielle

On Dec 26, 1:44 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> val189 wrote:
> > With inflation, I wouldn't expect to find much for 99 cents. Since
> > their goods are mostly junk, I don't even bother shopping there.
>
> That's pure snobbery and indicates that you never even tried. Give it a
> shot, it's not likely to kill you.
>
> 99-Cents-Only Stores are really good. Dollar Tree not so much.
> Big!Lots sucks. There are three or four 99-Cents-Only Stores within
> bicycle distance of my house. WOO-HOO!
>
> Shampoo is shampoo and hand lotion is hand lotion; pick the scent you
> like. Standard brands of toothpaste -- Colgate, Crest, etc. Morell hot
> dogs and sausage. Milk (yeah, I saw the Simpsons with the rat dairy).
> American sunblock, just with a short use-by date. Nexcare duct-tape
> band-aids (yeah, they really DO stick well). Tons of fun stuff.
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> =====================================================================
> If violence isn't solving the problem, you're not using enough of it.

Big Lots doesn't always "suck", although the prices certainly were
better when the chain used to be Pic'N'Save. Things that used to be a
dollar or two at Pic'N'Save are $3 or $4, now that Big Lots owns the
stores. But one thing I've found that is a great deal there is name
brand craft/scrapbooking supplies. Scrapbooking is a hobby that is too
expensive for me, especially since I have no kids. But my elderly mom
is into scrapbooking big-time, and I can pick up several packages of
name brand scrapbooking items for $1 or $2 each. I take them to her
from time to time just as a little gift, and she's thrilled.

I have a Dollar Tree and a .99 Cent Store near me. They both sell
mostly junk, but if you have a good eye and are willing to give things
a chance, there are good deals to be had. At Dollar Tree, I picked up
a Sunbeam brand 4-pack of bulbs for my night light. Great deal, and
the bulbs all work so far.

I also decided to take a chance and try their "Cuddle Soft" brand of
liquid fabric softener. It was the "Mountain Fresh" scent, and was in
a bonus 40oz.(reg.32oz) size "milk carton" type container. To me, it
smells every bit as good as the Downy Liquid concentrate DH insists on
buying at Costco. The carton says to use 3/8ths of a cup per load, but
I only use a little less than 1/4th cup - the same amount I usually
use of the Downy concentrate. It seems to work every bit as well as
the Downy; I've had no static cling so far. I asked DH how it worked;
he shrugged and said "OK, I guess". I asked him if it was as good as
the Downy and he said "No". As to why not, he said "I just really like
the smell of the Downy better." I asked him if it was worth paying 5
or 6 times more for the Downy just for the scent. He's a bit reluctant
on this whole frugality thing, so I have to ease into it - LOL.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Usenet being phased out
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/88e9e410905fb851?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 4:49 pm
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

On Dec 25, 6:12 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:

> In Comcast's case, their decision to stop offering free Usenet service
> had little to do with service cost, it was legal issues that motivated
> Comcast to stop offering free Usenet service. New York State's attorney
> general launched litigation against ISPs to get rid of child porn on
> their servers. Since Usenet is largely uncontrollable in its content,
> ISP's such as Time Warner and Comcast decided that since Usenet usage
> was declining and its mostly spam, it wasn't worth the effort for them
> to monitor and defend in court. A Google search will yield tons of
> information on this issue.
>

Kiddie porn was just a pretext for the ISPs to do what they always
wanted to do: shut down their usenet servers. If they didn't want to
do that, they would have told that dork in New York to go
----------------- and continue to offer Usenet. If some book worm in
New York really did have this much power, then this country is really
screwed.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 4:53 pm
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

Kiddie porn was just a pretext for the ISPs to do what they always
wanted to do: shut down their usenet servers. If they didn't want to
do that, they would have told that dork in New York to go
----------------- and continue to offer Usenet. If some book worm in
New York really does have this much power, then this country is really
screwed.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 5:46 pm
From: John Doe

ultimauw@gmail.com wrote:

> Kiddie porn was just a pretext for the ISPs to do what they always
> wanted to do: shut down their usenet servers.

We still have text servers here on AT&T USENET. I haven't been using
my ISP's binary USENET servers in years, so it makes almost no
difference to me.

Yes of course they used child pornography as an excuse to shut down
binary servers.

If they had given users a line to make suggestions and report
violations, individual servers probably could have easily shut down
child pornography on USENET.

Whatever. Makes no difference to AT&T Prodigy users, yet. Those who
lose access can spend a few dollars a year for a text server if you
can't afford a premium server.

--
Land Skis (rough terrain skates). The first rollerblades with a big
front wheel and small trailing wheels, to help roll over obstacles
while maintaining a low stance.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27532210@N04/3056505603

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 8:49 pm
From: Elesee

On Dec 26, 10:11 am, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I see many good TV's on curbs ...

Because a converter costs money for a dubious "improvement"; because
they take up more space than a flat-screen, and the big ones require
real muscle to move; but, mostly, because, if one prefers wide-screen,
HD sound, Blu-Ray, etc., it can't be had with a CRT 4:3 TV. But, a CRT
could serve well in a garage, patio; and if it breaks, nothing to
worry about except getting rid of it--here, you'd have to lug it to
the dump, and pay them to dispose of it. But, you could donate the
converter to a digital-deprived TV watcher after you switch to 100%
digital. Best thing about free TVs is that they're free, and that's
not to be sneezed at.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:28 pm
From: meow2222@care2.com

MSfort...@mcpmail.com wrote:
> James wrote:

> > I see many good TV's on curbs because of the new flat TV's as well as
> > HDTV standard. Why not pick up a good free TV and just buy a
> > convertion box?
> >
> > My next door neighbor tossed a very good TV but I wasn't thinking at
> > the time. Of course it was taken by the time I decided to take it.
>
> Sure it will work, but does that make it cheap? I have not done a
> comparison on power with the new TV's versus a CRT, but I did before
> purchasing this monitor. The new monitor uses 35W and the old one used
> 275W. By the time the warranty is up on the new monitor, it will have
> saved the price compared to what the old tube used. I pitched it like
> an old TV.

Most CRT monitors eat more like 70w, and even with extensive use the
extra power they eat compared to an LCD is only a small fraction of
the cost of going LCD. TV power use is similar - you'd need a real
monster to eat 275w, and even then that would most likely be max power
at cinema volume levels rather than mean power, so the wrong figure
for comparison.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 8:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev wrote:

> Who among us has not thrown out better stuff than this?

> http://stores.ebay.com/KPsurplusDotCom

I never ever thow anything out.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 8:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev wrote
> The Real Bev wrote

>> Who among us has not thrown out better stuff than this?

>> http://stores.ebay.com/KPsurplusDotCom

> They have lots of exotic stuff that we wouldn't be likely to have used, but what caught my attention was the
> Racal-Vadic acoustic modem for $519.00.

I've go one of those, different brand.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 9:14 pm
From: Mark Anderson

In article MSfortune@mcpmail.com says...
> Most people would not have a clue how to use some of those items that
> could be worth 10X the price. I did notice the two button mouse for
> $19.95 though that is not worth $10.

This is a generic problem with ebay. There are too many, perhaps the
vast majority, of sellers who try and sell their used junk for more than
what you can by new. The computer section of Craigslist is similar if
not worse. Now whenever I need some electronic doodad I just go over to
my local brick and mortar Microcenter and buy it hassle free, and
probably cheaper too.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 10:04 pm
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

http://socialinvest.org/directory/

Who Uses Slave Labor?
Forced labor has become both a form a torture and a source of great
profit for China. With the enormous amount of free labor that comes
from Laogai, China has lured many overseas businesses into its profit-
through-slave-labor system. With ridiculously cheap wholesale labor
costs many cannot resist the bait and unknowingly come to support this
illegal practice.

Common everyday products ranging from artificial Christmas trees,
Christmas tree lights, bracelets, tools and foodstuffs, et cetera are
among some of the products manufactured and exported from these
facilities. According to a 1998 House Committee on International
Relations report, companies who reportedly have or had products made
in China's Laogai are Midas, Staples, Chrysler, and Nestles. A recent
report from one detainee in the Changji Labor Camp in Xinjiang states
the Tianshan Wooltex Stock Corporation Ltd., a contractor to Changji
Labor Camp, makes products for overseas companies such as Banana
Republic, Neiman Marcus, Bon Genie, Holt Renfrew, French Connection
and others. Orders from Banana Republic number between 200,000 and
280,000 pieces a year.

The products made in these facilities are produced by people who are
forced to work in unsafe and unhealthy conditions. Detainees in Laogai
have said that because of malnutrition, sleep deprivation and stress
they often contract lice, scabies, hepatitis, tuberculosis, and other
ailments. Sick detainees are still forced to work. Many are not
allowed to take showers for long periods of time, allowing all manner
of bodily substances to come into contact with the items they
manufacture. These products are then shipped all over the world.

----------------

US car makers use products made by slaves in Amazonian Brazil, Peru

Discuss Santaigo, Nov 2:

Labour inspector Benedito Silva Filho and six armed police officers
move cautiously through the grey smoke that hugs the ground in the
Carvoaria Transcameta work camp near the Tucuru city in the Brazilian
Amazon. Enveloped in the haze is a solitary man, Alexandre Pereira dos
Reis, who stops shoveling charcoal from a kiln after working for eight
hours and, wheezing, walks slowly toward the inspectors. The labourer
says malaria, a chronic cough and the 95-degree-Fahrenheit heat have
gotten the best of him.

The charcoal he and the other labourers produce by burning scraps of
hardwood will be trucked south to a blast furnace that's six hours
away. It will be used there to make pig iron, a basic ingredient of
steel. That pig iron will be purchased by brokers, sold to steelmakers
and foundries and then purchased by some of the world's largest
companies for use in cars, tractors, sinks and refrigerators made for
US consumers.

''This is slavery,'' Silva, 49, says. Silva has descended unannounced
in September on this charcoal-making camp—one of about 1,000 in the
Amazon—to investigate reports that it uses unpaid labour. The
policemen who flank him wield automatic weapons, ready to fend off the
deadly violence that Silva says is part of his job. They determine all
29 workers are slaves who haven't been paid in months.

The products of Latin American slave labour end up in cars and trucks
made in the US by Ford Motors, General Motors, Nissan Motors and
Toyota Motors. Pig iron that goes into steel used by Whirlpool Corp,
the world's largest appliance maker, and is used in foundries at
Kohler Co, which makes sinks and bathtubs, can be traced back to
slaves in Brazil. Nucor Corp, the second-largest US steel company,
buys pig iron made with charcoal produced by slaves. In Peru, slaves
mine gold that ends up at the world's biggest banks. Other Peruvian
slaves log mahogany that's been used in Andersen Corp windows and CF
Martin & Co guitars.

Socially responsible financial services directory:

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 10:45 pm
From: Stan de SD

> The charcoal he and the other labourers produce by burning scraps of
> hardwood will be trucked south to a blast furnace that's six hours
> away. It will be used there to make pig iron, a basic ingredient of
> steel. That pig iron will be purchased by brokers, sold to steelmakers
> and foundries and then purchased by some of the world's largest
> companies for use in cars, tractors, sinks and refrigerators made for
> US consumers.

I don't suppose you have ever seen the inside of a modern steel mill,
or any other type of large-scale industry. Steelmaking is a tightly
controlled process, necessary to ensure proper chemical composition,
hardness, ductility, etc. I seriously doubt that charcoal is being
used for the coking process, as carbon content is super-critical. Most
steel is made in electric arc furnaces nowadays, so the charcoal isn't
being used as a heat source. Methinks you're being fed a line of BS by
someone...

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 10:15 pm
From: ultimauw@gmail.com

On Dec 24, 12:34 pm, "Strider" <fgevqre1...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
> "Shawn Hirn" <s...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:srhi-628AAC.10083724122008@74.sub-97-136-209.myvzw.com...
>
> > I think it sucks, but it seems to me that in many situations, employees
> > can see the writing on the wall. Unless the bosses are cooking the
> > books, when business drops significantly, any employee who doesn't
> > notice that and doesn't start thinking about his or her job security is
> > living in an alternate reality.
>
> True. Newspapers are notorious for folding with very little advance notice.
> In Dec. 1991 the Dallas Times Herald announced its demise on a Sunday
> afternoon. The paper published its final edition the next day. It was hardly
> a surprise, though -- they'd been in the proverbial "downward spiral" for a
> couple of years at least. I've read instances of editors sending the
> completed pages to the pressroom, then having the publisher arrive in the
> newsroom an hour later saying "You've just published the last issue."
>
> Back in college a classmate had been chosen for a summer internship at an
> out-of-town newspaper. A week or two before he was scheduled to report, the
> paper abruptly folded. No one so much as hinted to him that any trouble was
> afoot.
>
> Strider

The Orthodox Capitalists who love to crow about how the homeless are
druggies, idiots, immoral sub human creatures need to take note of
this and realize that they too may be walking the streets eating out
of soup kitchens if/when their company decides to close down, and
sometimes close down abruptly.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 10:36 pm
From: Stan de SD

On Dec 26, 10:15 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Dec 24, 12:34 pm, "Strider" <fgevqre1...@tznvy.pbz> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Shawn Hirn" <s...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> >news:srhi-628AAC.10083724122008@74.sub-97-136-209.myvzw.com...
>
> > > I think it sucks, but it seems to me that in many situations, employees
> > > can see the writing on the wall. Unless the bosses are cooking the
> > > books, when business drops significantly, any employee who doesn't
> > > notice that and doesn't start thinking about his or her job security is
> > > living in an alternate reality.
>
> > True. Newspapers are notorious for folding with very little advance notice.
> > In Dec. 1991 the Dallas Times Herald announced its demise on a Sunday
> > afternoon. The paper published its final edition the next day. It was hardly
> > a surprise, though -- they'd been in the proverbial "downward spiral" for a
> > couple of years at least. I've read instances of editors sending the
> > completed pages to the pressroom, then having the publisher arrive in the
> > newsroom an hour later saying "You've just published the last issue."
>
> > Back in college a classmate had been chosen for a summer internship at an
> > out-of-town newspaper. A week or two before he was scheduled to report, the
> > paper abruptly folded. No one so much as hinted to him that any trouble was
> > afoot.
>
> > Strider
>
> The Orthodox Capitalists who love to crow about how the homeless are
> druggies, idiots, immoral sub human creatures need to take note of
> this and realize that they too may be walking the streets eating out
> of soup kitchens if/when their company decides to close down, and
> sometimes close down abruptly.-

People with initiative don't sit on their fat fucking asses waiting
for a company that in financial straits to fold - they take the
inititative and move on. I have been laid off exactly once, at the
tail end of the dot.com boom/bust. I saw it coming well in advance,
planned accordingly, collected my notice and severance pay, and within
a week was working again, with a 40% raise. Most people who lose their
jobs may not have as much foresight, but typically they are working
again within a matter of months.

As far as your assertion that we're all in danger of being thrown out
on the street is total utter bullshit. The vast majority of homeless
in this country are NOT hard-working citizens who suddenly lost their
jobs. Studies of the homeless show that the primary causes are
substance abuse (including alcohol) and mental illness, in some cases
the former causing the latter. Unfortunately, disingenuous types such
as yourself peddle this crap to push your own left-wing agenda.

If you don't like America and/or free-market economics yourself, fine.
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and move to a
country that practices full on socialism/collectivism, like Cuba,
Zimbabwe, or North Korea? There are plenty of people living in those
commie-created shitholes who would be more than happy to swap
passports with you and let you enjoy the fruits of the Worker's
Paradise in your place. Meanwhile, the vast majority of us are happy
to live in a society where our own personal industry and initiative
are the primary factors to the path to success, instead of waiting
with our hands out for Dear Leader to feed/clothe/wipe our asses for
us... :O|

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:19 pm
From: meow2222@care2.com

Stan de SD wrote:
> On Dec 26, 10:15�pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:

> > �The Orthodox Capitalists who love to crow about how the homeless are
> > druggies, idiots, immoral sub human creatures need to take note of
> > this and realize that they too may be walking the streets eating out
> > of soup kitchens if/when their company decides to close down, and
> > sometimes close down abruptly.-
>
> People with initiative don't sit on their fat fucking asses waiting
> for a company that in financial straits to fold - they take the
> inititative and move on.

often, yes. Sometimes they have everything they own tied in and cant
get out, and their best option, risky as it is, is to sit tight and
see if they lose everything or make it. Many have had the illusion
that good times means it'll always be good, and many of those have had
rude awakenings.

However, as you rightly say, if one loses it all the choice is then
whether to stay there or whether to put together another plan and
change your situation.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 10:50 pm
From: Pat Cheney

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:37:07 -0500, tony cooper wrote:

> If it is a lie ... then all manufacturers and all review sites lie.
> No one specifies the camera-end fitting type or size.

The better camera reviewers DO mention the camera-end fitting type!

Look here:
http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/4701-3/casio-exilim-ex-z77-review-full-review

Here's a direct quote from that Casio Exilim EX-Z77 camera review:

"Sadly, Casio felt it necessary to equip the Exilim EX-Z77 with a
proprietary mini-USB jack, forcing users to keep yet another USB cable at
hand. With so many other camera manufacturers using standard mini-USB
ports, it's a wonder Casio doesn't make it easier on consumers by hopping
on the universal mini-USB bandwagon."

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:02 pm
From: John Navas

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:50:48 -0800, Pat Cheney <pcheney@ymail.com> wrote
in <8hk5l.11145$x%.8722@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>:

>On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:37:07 -0500, tony cooper wrote:
>
>> If it is a lie ... then all manufacturers and all review sites lie.
>> No one specifies the camera-end fitting type or size.
>
>The better camera reviewers DO mention the camera-end fitting type!
>
>Look here:
>http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/4701-3/casio-exilim-ex-z77-review-full-review
>
>Here's a direct quote from that Casio Exilim EX-Z77 camera review:
>
>"Sadly, Casio felt it necessary to equip the Exilim EX-Z77 with a
>proprietary mini-USB jack, forcing users to keep yet another USB cable at
>hand. With so many other camera manufacturers using standard mini-USB
>ports, it's a wonder Casio doesn't make it easier on consumers by hopping
>on the universal mini-USB bandwagon."

Unfortunately, that misses the point of having a dual connector. Had
Casio used standard Mini-USB, then it would have had to make room and
cost for another connector for A/V.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:29 pm
From: Pat Cheney

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:02:49 -0800, John Navas wrote:

> Unfortunately, that misses the point of having a dual connector. Had
> Casio used standard Mini-USB, then it would have had to make room and
> cost for another connector for A/V.

Hi John,
Yes. This is well known to you that a dual-purpose camera port can't
possibly use the mini-USB connector ... even if the Camera manufacturer
says it's a USB port ... but I would guess it is not well known to the rest
of us.

Now that we know a dual port can't possibly be mini-USB or micro-USB even
though it says it's USB, we can now steer clear of any camera that uses a
single port for AV and USB purposes.

That's the secret decoder ring we needed!

In my particular case, I have never used the supplied AV cable with any
camera (I have a stack of them in a box somewhere), including the days when
the kids were young and I used the old-style tape-based video cameras.

So, I learned from you John, for which I thank you.

For me, if it says it handles both AV and USB in the same port, I don't
want that camera!

Had we only known before we bought the camera (sorry, I still fault the
reviewers for not making what is obvious to you clear to us).

Thank you John,
Pat

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:38 pm
From: John Navas

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:29:47 -0800, Pat Cheney <pcheney@ymail.com> wrote
in <KRk5l.11147$x%.3828@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com>:

It is well-known, and what Casio said is correct.

>Now that we know a dual port can't possibly be mini-USB or micro-USB even
>though it says it's USB, we can now steer clear of any camera that uses a
>single port for AV and USB purposes.

That makes no sense to me.

>That's the secret decoder ring we needed!

It's not a secret, no matter what you think.

Part of why you're uninformed and mistaken.

>So, I learned from you John, for which I thank you.

You're welcome.

>For me, if it says it handles both AV and USB in the same port, I don't
>want that camera!

Suit yourself, but I think that's a poor primary criterion.

>Had we only known before we bought the camera (sorry, I still fault the
>reviewers for not making what is obvious to you clear to us).

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:14 pm
From: Dave Garland

Auntielle wrote:

> For anyone who is truly needy, please do what you can by using coupons
> on items you need, and learn to live frugally.

Indeed. Of course, you're preaching to the choir, anybody who is
"truly needy" and reads m.c.f-l is probably practicing those virtues.

In a major metro area (and some other areas as well) there may well be
ways to save even more by *not* using coupons.

For example, I find that almost anything involving national brands
(except perhaps a "double value of coupon" deal) even with a coupon
costs more than buying a different (not national brand) product.
Occasionally, the national brand is so much better or different as to
make the extra expense worth it, but not often.

Better yet are stores that specialize in "deals". They may have
national brands, but the products might be ones that didn't sell
elsewhere, or other vendors had overstocked, or that are past their
"sell by" date. (There are very few food products where honoring the
sell-by date is important.. the only one that comes to my mind is
things containing Nutrasweet, which as it gets old gets very nasty.)
Not everything they sell will be a good deal (stuff that they acquire
through regular distributor channels probably will cost more than at a
"warehouse supermarket"). But some things will be, and if you use
them they'll be worth stocking up on.

Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save up to 80% on Electricity Bill Every Month.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/513e1beff3fcf3cb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 26 2008 11:34 pm
From: meow2222@care2.com

eforce.ws wrote:
> ECONOMY MELTDOWN! Who Else Needs to Save Thousands a Year On Electric
> Bill Alone?
> How You Can Generate Wind & Solar Energy to Fully Power Your Home
> Inexpensively
>
> How to Cut Your Electricity Bill by Up to 80% And
> Generate Free Energy for Life

If you make your own wind gen from scrap, and batteries from off the
shelf parts, yes it is possible - as long as you ignore the value of
the labour put in, and accept the various downsides. There's no need
to pay for such info tho, its no secret.

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Frugal Living

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