Frugal Living: Jul 30, 2010

Friday, July 30, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Use a PC monitor with a Blue Ray player?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b10e2e7d52880350?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 11:31 pm
From: Gordon

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in
news:8be24vF9k5U1@mid.individual.net:

> Gordon wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>> Digital TV is very different to analog TV.
>
>>>> The RF signal still propagates the same way.
>
>>> Wrong, you dont get ghosts for starters.
>
>>> And it works a lot better in weak signal areas too.
>
>> The RF still propagates the same way.
>
> Still works a hell of a lot better at weak signal levels where
> there is no direct path between the transmitter and receiver.

Yes, digital signals are less suseptable to interfearence. And
multipath reception is a form of self interfearence. But that has
nothing to do with RF propagation.
>
>> It doesn't make any difference that there is digital information
>> modulated onto the carrier. RF is still RF. It behaves the same
>> regardless of what type of information it is carying.
>
> Wrong with weak signal levels.

Bull! RF is still RF.

>
>> Oh, about the ghosts. ATSC tuners and decoders have circuits that
>> cancel them.
>
> Lie with digital TV.

Look it up.

>
>> You don't see them because they have been processed out, not because
>> they don't exist.
>
> Yes, they still exist, but they are just ignored with digital TV.
>
Yes. That's what I said.
>
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 3:15 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Gordon wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Gordon wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Gordon wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>> Digital TV is very different to analog TV.

>>>>> The RF signal still propagates the same way.

>>>> Wrong, you dont get ghosts for starters.

>>>> And it works a lot better in weak signal areas too.

>>> The RF still propagates the same way.

>> Still works a hell of a lot better at weak signal levels where
>> there is no direct path between the transmitter and receiver.

> Yes, digital signals are less suseptable to interfearence.
> And multipath reception is a form of self interfearence.
> But that has nothing to do with RF propagation.

You were the only one rabbitting on about RF propagation.

>>> It doesn't make any difference that there is digital information
>>> modulated onto the carrier. RF is still RF. It behaves the same
>>> regardless of what type of information it is carying.

>> Wrong with weak signal levels.

> Bull! RF is still RF.

You just said the exact opposite, fool.

>>> Oh, about the ghosts. ATSC tuners and decoders have circuits that cancel them.

>> Lie with digital TV.

> Look it up.

Dont need to, its a lie.

>>> You don't see them because they have been processed out, not because they don't exist.

>> Yes, they still exist, but they are just ignored with digital TV.

> Yes. That's what I said.

Nothing like what you said.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GHD Limited Edition Radiance Set
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/18926707d0a86bc8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:31 am
From: lizhou zhu

Finding the best looking way to wear and/or style our hair is a common
problem we all share at one time or another. Fortunately your hair
grows and replaces itself, so almost anything you do will "not be
permanent". As a result trying a new length, shape, or hair color
should be a fun experience rather than a scary one. It's all part of
the self-discovery process.

Regardless of how you style your hair now, changing the length and
shape periodically can help you keep up with the "natural changes"
your hair and facial features under go with time. What once worked
well when you were young may not work as well as you age.

It may come as a surprise but if you look closely you'll find that
many of the classic hairstyles are the result of what each hair type
does naturally and uniquely. With few exceptions, I've found that
almost everyone's natural hair type suits them best when "cut-shaped-
styled" to bring out its hidden beauty.

The secret to finding the "perfect hairstyle" is to simply work with
what the hair does naturally and design your style around it. With a
custom shaping you can easily dress it up or simply shampoo, comb and
go. You'll save time and always look good even when you don't have
time to style your hair. However, the shape and length must also
complement your face shape and most importantly your unique facial
features.

The most important thing to remember is do the best you can with what
you have. If you're not happy with what your hair does, or looks like
naturally there are countless ways to change it. But keep in mind that
none of these things are permanent. Your hair can be one your most
unique features. I always suggest trying to work within the boundries
you've been given rather than trying to break those boundries.

For more hair advice see my Salonweb feature "Ask George" where I
answer your emails.
cheap ghd straighteners with best quality and free shipping

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MSNBC: Petite woman bumped from plane for hefty passenger
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/40e3c843ab1f9611?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 3:22 am
From: gordon@hammy.burditt.org (Gordon Burditt)

>> The woman, a petite 5-foot-4, 110 pounds ...
>
>For what it's worth, the average height for women in the U.S. is 5 feet 4
>inches, so she's not petite.
>
>> ... because the overweight passenger in question was only 14 and
>> they were trying to spare the teen embarrassment.

What kind of ticket did the teen have? The passenger bumped was
flying standby. I'm guessing that you can't get child-flying-alone
standby tickets. The teen might have been late for a number of
reasons not his fault, such as a connecting flight being late, or
the airline screwed up in getting him to the connecting flight on
time.

>Sparing the teen embarrassment will result in her weighing about three times
>as much when she's 35, just before she dies of diabetic complications and
>cardiovascular disease.

Does it also give him a sex-change operation? The teen in question was
14 and *male*. It's also unclear that much of the embarrassment had
anything to do with his weight.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 4:09 am
From: Mxsmanic

Gordon Burditt writes:

> Does it also give him a sex-change operation? The teen in question was
> 14 and *male*.

All of the sources I've seen refer to the fat teenager as female.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 4:44 am
From: Kurt Ullman

In article <Q9adnTHUAo53Os_RnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@posted.internetamerica>,
gordon@hammy.burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote:

> >Sparing the teen embarrassment will result in her weighing about three times
> >as much when she's 35, just before she dies of diabetic complications and
> >cardiovascular disease.
>
> Does it also give him a sex-change operation? The teen in question was
> 14 and *male*. It's also unclear that much of the embarrassment had
> anything to do with his weight.

There are two empty seats, only one new passenger, but the woman gets
kicked out anyway so the young passenger can have both. How does that
relate to ANYTHING other than weight??

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I hope Germany can win this "battle of the bulge"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e00d791d102005d4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:58 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jul 30, 12:48 am, "PepsiFr...@teranews.com"
<bobsyoung...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Which, of course, leads to the discussion/argument of how much ANY
> government should control its citizens.
> "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

It does here in America. Congress voted AGAINST suing the junk food
industry for getting children addicted.

You are either on the side of the predator or the prey.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:21 am
From: Opus

On Jul 30, 7:58 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 12:48 am, "PepsiFr...@teranews.com"
>
> <bobsyoung...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Which, of course, leads to the discussion/argument of how much ANY
> > government should control its citizens.
> > "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
>
> It does here in America. Congress voted AGAINST suing the junk food
> industry for getting children addicted.
>
> You are either on the side of the predator or the prey.

BZZZT! Foul on the monkey, binary fallacy, ball back in defense's
court.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:46 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jul 30, 11:21 am, Opus <opusthep...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 30, 7:58 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 30, 12:48 am, "PepsiFr...@teranews.com"
>
> > <bobsyoung...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Which, of course, leads to the discussion/argument of how much ANY
> > > government should control its citizens.
> > > "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
>
> > It does here in America. Congress voted AGAINST suing the junk food
> > industry for getting children addicted.
>
> > You are either on the side of the predator or the prey.
>
> BZZZT! Foul on the monkey, binary fallacy, ball back in defense's
> court.

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral." -Paulo
Freire

What's all the fuss about lions and monkeys?

While the Rich and Powerful choose the lion as their symbol of power
and exclusiveness, the common people are left without an identity. And
since the poor rely on COOPERATION and CLEVERNESS to survive, their
perfect symbol would be one that shows those characteristics... the
monkey.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I HACK $2000 FROM PAYPAL
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/83a974471a6c2b45?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:04 am
From: paypal cash

I HACK $2000 FROM PAYPAL AT http://1023setvideos.co.cc

Due to high security risks, i have hidden the PayPal Form link in an
image. in that website On Top Side Above search box , click on image
and enter your PayPal id And Your name.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Using timers to cut back on electric bill
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e0dd07f3438b5f5f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:58 am
From: Alex

Thanks for the great replies...

Actually the idea of using timers came from an episode of Oprah that
aired last night where they interviewed several people who talked
about how they save electricity. One lady reported that her electric
bill went from over $200 to less than $100 just by unplugging
everything she didn't use. I doubt we'll get that kind of return
since I think much of our usage comes from the HVAC system plus the
oven since we cook each morning and night, however if we can use
timers to 'unplug' the vampire devices when we're not home, that would
help to some degree.

I'm trying to mix frugal living with convenience, which is where the
timers come into play. Our entertainment system (TV, cable box, Wii,
and BluRay) all plug into the wall through one power switch, but given
the cable box takes about 3-5 minutes to power-up, that's not ideal
with a 3 year old. This may change in time, but by using the timers
to disconnect power from these devices from say 7:30am to 4:30pm
during the week day plus 11pm to 6am each night, that would disconnect
the devices about 56% of the time. When I get the KillAWatt meter to
test how much they use, this should help. If it's only using $10-$20/
month it may be worth it to just keep them plugged in... not sure. We
also have a second fridge in the garage we're not really using, so I
may look into getting rid of that as well.

Michael, you said I probably got the idea from heating, but honestly I
didn't think about having a timer on the electric water heater until
reading other posts after I posted my comment. As you suggested I'll
need to test how much electricity our hot water heater uses, by
monitoring the meter, but given our hot water heater is in the garage
with Texas summers, it's VERY warm in there most days as it is. I
wonder if a timer would help if we only had it turn on the water
heater from 4am to 6am so the water's warm for AM showers, then again
from 4pm to 6pm so it's warm for evening kids baths, laundry, etc. I
bet with the garage staying as warm as it is, that would help keep the
water warm. Then for winters I could adjust the timer and wrap the
water heater.

Metspitzer, great read on Wiki article, and they actually suggest what
I'm suggesting here by using timers.

And BIll, I didn't think of the light on the power supply using a
large amount of power itself, but I guess it all adds up.

Thanks for the replies -- Alex

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:01 am
From: Jeff Thies

Alex wrote:
> Hi Everyone ...
>
> Today Oprah had an episode about frugal living, and one suggestion was
> to unplug most items when not in use. I've known for some time that
> many electrical items like TV, cable box, etc use electricity even
> when off, but while watching the show I started wondering if timers
> could help cut back on how much electricity those devices use.
>
> My thought is this weekend I'll pick-up a Kill-a-watt meter

I bought my KillAWatt P3 not long ago from Radio Shack for $20. There is
a more expensive model that lets you plug in your electric rate, but I
prefer to calculate that myself.

You'll find that modern transformerless devices use little power in
standby. I could read nothing at all from my assorted battery chargers.

You may wish to check before you decide what is worth the nuisance of
turning off.

Jeff

plus a GE
> 7-day plug-in timer, both of which at home depot would be about $45.
> My thought is to gauge how much electricity the things in our
> entertainment center use per hour when not in use (HDTV, cable box,
> BluRay, AppleTV, and Wii) and if I can set the timer to only bring
> power to these devices say from 4:30pm to 11pm M-F then change the
> weekend schedule as needed, this would cut the usage by a large
> percentage. Then I could do the same for the cable modem/router and
> even the microwave in the house.
>
> Has anyone investigated doing something like this? They just
> installed a Smartmeter at our house, so hopefully soon we'll be able
> to see how much electricity our house uses in 15 minute intervals
> anytime.
>
> Thanks for any advice...
>
> Alex

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:24 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"Alex" <samalex@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f6eb4258-ec79-4da6-bc16-197f32310948@f6g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi Everyone ...
>
> Today Oprah had an episode about frugal living, and one suggestion was
> to unplug most items when not in use. I've known for some time that
> many electrical items like TV, cable box, etc use electricity even
> when off, but while watching the show I started wondering if timers
> could help cut back on how much electricity those devices use.
>
> My thought is this weekend I'll pick-up a Kill-a-watt meter plus a GE
> 7-day plug-in timer, both of which at home depot would be about $45.
> My thought is to gauge how much electricity the things in our
> entertainment center use per hour when not in use (HDTV, cable box,
> BluRay, AppleTV, and Wii) and if I can set the timer to only bring
> power to these devices say from 4:30pm to 11pm M-F then change the
> weekend schedule as needed, this would cut the usage by a large
> percentage. Then I could do the same for the cable modem/router and
> even the microwave in the house.
>
> Has anyone investigated doing something like this? They just
> installed a Smartmeter at our house, so hopefully soon we'll be able
> to see how much electricity our house uses in 15 minute intervals
> anytime.
>
> Thanks for any advice...
>
> Alex

Home depot and their ilk usually put timers on sale around Xmas selling time
cause people buy Xmas lights and fake trees.

Ask your local government or power ultitiy for rebates. They may give one
for use of timers. They do around here once a year.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:18 pm
From: Vandy Terre

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:35:33 -0700 (PDT), Alex <samalex@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi Everyone ...
>
>Today Oprah had an episode about frugal living, and one suggestion was
>to unplug most items when not in use. I've known for some time that
>many electrical items like TV, cable box, etc use electricity even
>when off, but while watching the show I started wondering if timers
>could help cut back on how much electricity those devices use.
>
>My thought is this weekend I'll pick-up a Kill-a-watt meter plus a GE
>7-day plug-in timer, both of which at home depot would be about $45.
>My thought is to gauge how much electricity the things in our
>entertainment center use per hour when not in use (HDTV, cable box,
>BluRay, AppleTV, and Wii) and if I can set the timer to only bring
>power to these devices say from 4:30pm to 11pm M-F then change the
>weekend schedule as needed, this would cut the usage by a large
>percentage. Then I could do the same for the cable modem/router and
>even the microwave in the house.
>
>Has anyone investigated doing something like this? They just
>installed a Smartmeter at our house, so hopefully soon we'll be able
>to see how much electricity our house uses in 15 minute intervals
>anytime.
>
>Thanks for any advice...
>
>Alex

Why not just do meter checks at various times of the day? Walking out to the
meter and making a pencil and paper record is cheaper.

For some real fun, turn everything off and check the meter for movement.
Amazing how many appliances have a 'ghost' draw. Not just the television, but
the washer/ dryer/ dishwasher can also have the 'ghost' draw.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 7:19 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"Vandy Terre" <vandy@tanglewood-destiny.com> wrote in message
news:68u656lj7k377ar4etql1boct77ntjqajm@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:35:33 -0700 (PDT), Alex <samalex@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Why not just do meter checks at various times of the day? Walking out to
> the
> meter and making a pencil and paper record is cheaper.
>
> For some real fun, turn everything off and check the meter for movement.
> Amazing how many appliances have a 'ghost' draw. Not just the television,
> but
> the washer/ dryer/ dishwasher can also have the 'ghost' draw.

Interesting observation and you raised something to consider: We just
bought 5 new appliances for delivery in September. The Washer, Dryer and
Dishwasher all have electronic controls and timers. No mechanical dials or
switches. Stoves have been like that for years. We got a gas stove but
the ignitors are electronic with leds. The self cleaning is electronically
locking with a push of a button.

Gotta wonder what the ghost draw on all this "efficient" appliance stuff.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What if 20 Million Illegals left
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/39d2c347ea917a44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 8:16 am
From: "Sure,Not"

On Jul 29, 11:08 pm, edspyhill01 <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 29, 8:08 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <tripletask@gmail..com> wrote in message
>
> >news:tsr056hrg5nvo0bt5dq3s91jmlpi04u8t5@4ax.com...
>
> > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:10:37 -0400, No Surren...@never.net wrote:
>
> > >>AN E-MAIL FROM A FRIEND
>
> > >>HEAD: What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
>
> > If they left California, our budget problems -- $10 Billion deficit -- would
> > be gone tomorrow. I have trouble understanding the down side of that.
>
> No it wouldn't. To fix the deficits in all states you'd have to
> convert all government workers' and teachers' defined pensions to
> 401K's. It's the pensions.

That is certainly a big part of it.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:14 am
From: "Jeff Strickland"

"edspyhill01" <edspyhill01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:99802fba-c94b-4856-809e-01f7d901c0b8@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 29, 8:08 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <tripletask@gmail..com> wrote in message
>
> news:tsr056hrg5nvo0bt5dq3s91jmlpi04u8t5@4ax.com...
>
> > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:10:37 -0400, No Surren...@never.net wrote:
>
> >>AN E-MAIL FROM A FRIEND
>
> >>HEAD: What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
>
> If they left California, our budget problems -- $10 Billion deficit --
> would
> be gone tomorrow. I have trouble understanding the down side of that.
>

No it wouldn't. To fix the deficits in all states you'd have to
convert all government workers' and teachers' defined pensions to
401K's. It's the pensions.

<JS>
That's only partly true. Actually, it's entirely true that the pensions need
to be fixed, but I'm not so sure about the 401(k)s. 401(k) need to be fixed
to protect the participant's interests, but they aren't part of the budget
problems in so much as they represent a burden for the state.

But Illegal Immigration costs California $10 BILLION per year. That's 10
with a shit load of zeros on the end. Illegal immigration is exactly HALF of
the budget deficit this year, and last year, and the year before, and in all
likelihood next year and the year after.

Illegal immigrants represent about 2% of the state population, yet they are
about 25% of the prison population. That's a problem. A very costly problem.
I don't mean to paint all illegals as criminals because clearly they are
not -- beyond the crime of being an illegal immigrant that is.

They come here and work hard, if they can find a job. I work in
construction, and it's difficult to keep pace with the Mexicans on the job,
but they draw low wages and sap public services as a result. And since they
are paid under the table, or off the books, or however you wish to
characterize it, they do not pay taxes on the income they get. They do pay
rent somewhere, and the landlord pays property tax on the property so there
is some tax revenue, but illegals do not directly pay taxes other than Sales
Tax when they purchase goods and services. But they use public health care
that cost far more than the sales tax revenues they generate. They have kids
in schools that cost far more than the property tax revenues that are
generated. The cost of illegals in the prison system is extraordinary, I
believe it costs about $70,000 per year per inmate. Illegal immigration is a
net-cost to the state, not a net-benefit.

</JS>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:52 am
From: edspyhill01

On Jul 30, 12:14 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "edspyhill01" <edspyhil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:99802fba-c94b-4856-809e-01f7d901c0b8@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 29, 8:08 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <tripletask@gmail..com> wrote in message
>
> >news:tsr056hrg5nvo0bt5dq3s91jmlpi04u8t5@4ax.com...
>
> > > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:10:37 -0400, No Surren...@never.net wrote:
>
> > >>AN E-MAIL FROM A FRIEND
>
> > >>HEAD: What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
>
> > If they left California, our budget problems -- $10 Billion deficit --
> > would
> > be gone tomorrow. I have trouble understanding the down side of that.
>
> No it wouldn't. To fix the deficits in all states you'd have to
> convert all government workers' and teachers' defined pensions to
> 401K's. It's the pensions.
>
> <JS>
> That's only partly true. Actually, it's entirely true that the pensions need
> to be fixed, but I'm not so sure about the 401(k)s. 401(k) need to be fixed
> to protect the participant's interests, but they aren't part of the budget
> problems in so much as they represent a burden for the state.
>
> But Illegal Immigration costs California $10 BILLION per year. That's 10
> with a shit load of zeros on the end. Illegal immigration is exactly HALF of
> the budget deficit this year, and last year, and the year before, and in all
> likelihood next year and the year after.
>
> Illegal immigrants represent about 2% of the state population, yet they are
> about 25% of the prison population. That's a problem. A very costly problem.
> I don't mean to paint all illegals as criminals because clearly they are
> not -- beyond the crime of being an illegal immigrant that is.
>
> They come here and work hard, if they can find a job. I work in
> construction, and it's difficult to keep pace with the Mexicans on the job,
> but they draw low wages and sap public services as a result. And since they
> are paid under the table, or off the books, or however you wish to
> characterize it, they do not pay taxes on the income they get. They do pay
> rent somewhere, and the landlord pays property tax on the property so there
> is some tax revenue, but illegals do not directly pay taxes other than Sales
> Tax when they purchase goods and services. But they use public health care
> that cost far more than the sales tax revenues they generate. They have kids
> in schools that cost far more than the property tax revenues that are
> generated. The cost of illegals in the prison system is extraordinary, I
> believe it costs about $70,000 per year per inmate. Illegal immigration is a
> net-cost to the state, not a net-benefit.
>
> </JS>

I think we have found common ground.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Adam & Eve the Vatican doesn't want you to know about
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4cbe8c2d76a32534?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 10:13 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

(You may be wondering what Adam & Eve have to do with our disastrous
transportation system... Well, poor planning may account for the
events that led to Eve taking the bite)

This is a logical, rational, impassioned look at A&E...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHZsleyKons

Isn't it awesome? Adam "tries" but he's rejected by Eve who elopes
with the Serpent. What is Eve doing with the Serpent she couldn't do
with Adam?

We may never know but rumors abound.

--------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"Never trust the serpent or politicians"

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

http://webspawner.com/users/FARTFORPEACE (the "light" way to do
something)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: learn how to use coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aeb8e42a23868d01?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 2:50 pm
From: Steve S

If your not using coupons than your paying to much. Learn how to use
online coupons and where to get them. Plus great tips to help you save
more money when you shop.http://www.sjsonline.net/how-to-use-coupons

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 5:37 pm
From: Patricia Martin Steward

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:50:31 -0700 (PDT), Steve S
<sjsindustries@aol.com> wrote:

>If your not using coupons than your paying to much.

So much ignorance, so little time.

--
No matter how hard you try to put ribbons on some
road apples, it is still a bunch of horse manure.
-comadrejo

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Riding a bike in London is risky business
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e744f8b768901596?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 3:39 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

My sources in London (Yahoo News) tell me that such is the nature of
riding a bike in London. But things are relative and not black and
white, and probably riding a bike in Miami or NYC is far more
dangerous.

London though is launching 6,000 bikes and it may see some peace after
the initial mayhem. Is it really that bad? Here they kill you for
giving the finger. What it would be like to ride a bike in
Afghanistan? Or will it be more deadly to ride an SUV?

LONDON – Feel like living dangerously?

Riding a bike in London will soon be more convenient, though it's
unlikely to be any less scary. Riders already dodge the city's famed
black cabs and double-decker buses — to say nothing of other cyclists.

A bike rental program launched Friday by London's Mayor Boris Johnson
will add an additional 6,000 bikes to the capital's congested streets.
Under the initiative, cyclists will be able to rent bikes from 400
docking stations around town.

Johnson called it "a new dawn for the bicycle in the capital" — but
veterans of the London cycling scene are bracing for a new era of
transit mayhem.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100730/ap_on_re_eu/eu_biking_in_london

------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"The jungle is a very dangerous place to be for the unwise"

http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE

(the revolution starts with the turning of a wheel and the bipedal
monkey)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Nation of Aztlan calls for the removal of whites from North America
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1d157a202de4cc43?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 6:32 pm
From: Curt

On Jul 27, 12:23 am, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:49:17 -0700 (PDT), Curt <obadiahly...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Jul 26, 1:20 pm, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
> >> in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
> >> and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
> >> not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
> >> Gunner Asch
>
> >Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it
> >is true that most stupid people are conservative.
> >John Stuart Mill
>
> >Curt
>
> You do know that the terms "liberal/conservative" were reversed in the
> early 20th century, are you not?
>
> When Mills penned that...the Right Wing were considered "liberals"

Oh my heavens, no no no. You've been listening to the wrong radio
shows. Try reading a book or something -- you're just all goofered up.
What composes the current right wing is in no way anything like what
classical liberalism is all about. You've just been fibbed to, is all.
Probably not your fault -- you don't sound very discerning.

>
> Which indeed shows that Mills did have his ducks in a row, as shown by
> your postings.
>
> You "new Liberals" are well known to be both mentally ill, and pond
> scum.

Calling names is a sign you're losing an argument. I bet you call
names a lot.

BTW it's "Mill", not "Mills".

Curt

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Facebook hacker
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/178da35874905dfb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:09 pm
From: John Savage

noel888 <harri85274@aol.com> writes:
>I was duped into joining Facebook by a hacker. It looked completely
>ligit. Now after losing $100 , the hacker's facebook site is gone. So
>that confirms to me that i have been hacked. I would like to remove my
>info and everything from Facebook, but there is no contact on how to
>do this on their site. Does anyone here know how i can get out if?
>Thanks

How does one "lose" $100 by joining Facebook? Did you pay $100 to join?
It's free, so I'm mystified how someone can lose money just by joining.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rice cooker which switches to OFF
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0e8d6a586e358bd3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 30 2010 9:10 pm
From: John Savage

"Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> writes:
References:
<2336e6a9-9d6b-450a-8f59-0ff07db96190@w15g2000pro.googlegroups.com>
<3d1a9b6d-d113-42da-9007-77ff498fec0d@i28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>
<i1nsn9$4vm$1@news.albasani.net>

> > On Jul 13, 10:22 pm, aesthete8 <art...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Most r.c.'s seem to switch to WARM after the rice gets cooked.
> >>
> >> I need one which shuts off.
> >>
> >> Any suggestions?

>Is there something wrong with a pot on the stovetop?

Need the gas low to cook slowly using the absorption method. This means
the flame will sometimes go out (supply pressure fluctuates).
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 24 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: clean with magazine sheets but not newspaper?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/605f8bf78d50bdbb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 28 2010 11:58 pm
From: Michaelangelo

Matty F burst on the scene, and said:

> I used an electronic calculator with Nixie tubes in 1962 at
> University.
> Quite possbly this model:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumlock_ANITA_calculator

Electronic calculators appeared in the '60s but *pocket* calculators
were a product of the '70s.

--
Michaelangelo
www.flickr.com/photos/mikenagel

Self-catering, holiday accommodation in the Scottish Highlands - for
disabled people:
www.woodhead-cottage.co.uk

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 12:09 pm
From: "Sam"

The Real Bev wrote
> 234 wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote
>>> Owain wrote
>>>> Spamlet wrote

>>>>> Years ago they did feature non dirty newspaper ink in Tomorrow's
>>>>> World. Like everything else in that prog, it never caught on.

>>>> * The Breathalyser (1967)
>>>> * The ATM (1969)
>>>> * The pocket calculator (1971)

>>> Electronic calculator, roughly the size of an adding machine, came out much earlier. Nixie tubes.

>> Nope, not that much earlier.

> Yeah it was.

No it wasnt. It has to be after 64
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculator#The_development_of_electronic_calculators

> We may still have it :-(

Irrevant to when it first showed up.

>>>> * The digital watch (1972)

>>> Pulsars -- red LEDs of some sort -- came out in the early 60s.

>> Nope, later than that.

> Nope yourself. Well, maybe they took that long to hit Oz, but I
> remember being at a gas station in Bakersfield and asking a guy to
> push the button on his Pulsar. This is before our first kid was born
> in 1964.

That must be your altzhiemer's talking, the Pulsar LED watch was only a prototype in 1970.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch#Digital

And that says that they were out of the price of the consumer until 1975.

> We also acquired a stray calico kitten there, which we gave
> to my mother-in-law. She was an exceptionally good cat, and now
> Bakersfield cats have assumed a position of superiority in our family.

> Gotta add 234 to my killfile, Rod. Sorry, but you earned it. The
> brain inside isn't worth the trouble of scraping off the crap outside.

You never ever could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 2:28 pm
From: "Graham."

"Spamlet" <spam.morespam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:i2n3mt$7u8$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "john hamilton" <bluestar95@mail.invalid> wrote in message news:i2midd$r35$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> After reading our newspapers we end up with an oily dirt on our hands, but not after reading the magazine supplements that come
>> inside the newspapers or the television guide magazines.
>>
>> I wondering what the significance is with regard to using sheets from the magazines with regard to wrapping food. I know you are
>> not suppose to use newspaper. But is it alright to use the magazine sheets for wrapping food? Also are they both alright to use
>> in garden composting? This question is also relevant when using dampened magazine sheets to clean down food surfaces and clean
>> windows etc.
>>
>> Would anyone know how to explain simply how the method of printing is done differently between the magazines and the newspapers?
>> Thanks for any advice.
>
> I think you only need to use your nose: though with widespread colour the line between magazine and newspaper is increasingly
> blurred. Most magazines smell horrible, and many give me a headache, therefore the ink isn't dry, and you don't want it in your
> food. (Some may be done on photocopiers, but even cured plastic toner can transfer on to say over head projector slides if you
> leave them stacked together too long.) I'm a bit out of date but one of the more headachy solvents I used to hate and smell in
> magazines was cyclohexanone. There are large numbers of inks and formulations as there is still a touch of alchemy involved.
> Many magazines still have ink that doesn't dry completely and you can quite often get a reversed image if you insert a piece of
> plastic and weigh it down for a while. You probably don't smudge it because most of the time your fingers are on the border of a
> magazine whereas you tend to touch the ink when you are folding the newspaper to read it.
>
> Shiny magazine paper is a pain to anyone who likes to make notes in margins etc. as biro smudges all over the place and pencil
> either won't write on it or rips it to pieces.
>
> Years ago they did feature non dirty newspaper ink in Tomorrow's World. Like everything else in that prog, it never caught on.

Clutch-head security screws. Saw them on TW in the 70s I think.
Never saw them in the wild for years, now they are a common sight fastening
public toilet cubical panels together.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 2:42 pm
From: Tim Watts

Graham. <me@privacy.net>
wibbled on Thursday 29 July 2010 22:28

> Clutch-head security screws. Saw them on TW in the 70s I think.
> Never saw them in the wild for years, now they are a common sight
> fastening public toilet cubical panels together.
>

I can remember a few others that did too... Not necessarily that fast.

Ronstrip. Or rather the same sort of caustic gunk applied to a large wooden
area, coated with a blanket then pulled off an hour or so later, paint and
all. I guess that form would never had made it in the market, but I'm almost
certain Ronstrip must be the practical derivative.

Talking-telephone-computer-menus: I saw that when I was a kid - thought:
wow, an actual computer talking to you. Never guessed how bloody annoying it
would be @-|

Sure they must have done quite a bit on "self driving cars" which whilst
that happened, look at the parking assist and the safety-distance-brake that
are on quite a lot of cars now.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 4:09 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 07/28/10 21:30, Matty F wrote:

> On Jul 29, 3:58 pm, The Real Bev<bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 07/28/10 17:39, 234 wrote:
>> > The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> >>> * The pocket calculator (1971)
>>
>> >> Electronic calculator, roughly the size of an adding machine, came out
>> >> much earlier. Nixie tubes.
>>
>> > Nope, not that much earlier.
>>
>> Yeah it was. We may still have it :-(
>
> I used an electronic calculator with Nixie tubes in 1962 at
> University.
> Quite possbly this model:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumlock_ANITA_calculator

Ours had a normal 10-key keyboard plus the usual memory functions. It
cost $100 at The Akron, a store long out of business which sold neat and
interesting stuff at really low prices. I can't remember how much the
regular-brand calcs cost, but it was a lot more.

--
Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
666øF -- the oven temperature for roast beast.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Rai Bathing Videos In All Angles
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b530a32a062199f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 6:14 am
From: free money

Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Rai Bathing Videos In All Angles At
http://lifeisbeatiful.co.cc

Due to high sex content, i have hidden the videos in an image. in
that
website on Top Side search box Above click on image and watch
videos in all angles.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do Christians Fart in Church?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fbacf9e44e40d686?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 9:27 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

I have decided to launch yet another campaign for peace...

http://webspawner.com/users/FARTFORPEACE

Yes, it's similar to MASTURBATION FOR PEACE, but it can be practiced
in public even in church. ;)

Notice this is similar in effect to PRAYERS FOR PEACE, which is widely
used by many who choose to do nothing, while I propose that Plan A is
doing something like RIDING A BIKE.

http://webspawner.com/users/BIKEFORPEACE

http://webspawner.com/users/MASTURBATIONFORPEACE

Now enjoy this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O305Qso0Kg&feature=related

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 12:31 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jul 29, 2:32 pm, Earle Jones <earle.jo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article
> <66d5a89e-a134-412a-bfd7-7b7a9f937...@i31g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of
>
> Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I have decided to launch yet another campaign for peace...
>
> >http://webspawner.com/users/FARTFORPEACE
>
> > Yes, it's similar to MASTURBATION FOR PEACE, but it can be practiced
> > in public even in church....
>
> *
> But should it be practiced in an elevator?

Well, let's put this way...

That would be an elevated way to fart.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: All the bike lanes lead nowhere
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b3fb0eed28420e8f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 12:07 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jul 29, 2:58 pm, Jimmy <JimmyGeldb...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Bolwerk <bolw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Remember that upper class white woman who dared let her 9-year-old ride
> > the Subway alone a few years ago? It actually made the news.
>
> Metro North explicitly allows children 8 and over to ride
> unaccompanied. Seehttp://www.mta.info/mnr/html/planning/fares/unaccomp_child.htm
> .
>
> Jimmy

Try letting your child ride a bike alone.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 12:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Gordon wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> Digital TV is very different to analog TV.

>>> The RF signal still propagates the same way.

>> Wrong, you dont get ghosts for starters.

>> And it works a lot better in weak signal areas too.

> The RF still propagates the same way.

Still works a hell of a lot better at weak signal levels where
there is no direct path between the transmitter and receiver.

> It doesn't make any difference that there is digital information
> modulated onto the carrier. RF is still RF. It behaves the same
> regardless of what type of information it is carying.

Wrong with weak signal levels.

> Oh, about the ghosts. ATSC tuners and decoders have circuits that cancel them.

Lie with digital TV.

> You don't see them because they have been processed out, not because they don't exist.

Yes, they still exist, but they are just ignored with digital TV.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 11:31 pm
From: Gordon

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in
news:8be24vF9k5U1@mid.individual.net:

Bull! RF is still RF.

>
>> Oh, about the ghosts. ATSC tuners and decoders have circuits that
>> cancel them.
>
> Lie with digital TV.

Look it up.

>
>> You don't see them because they have been processed out, not because
>> they don't exist.
>
> Yes, they still exist, but they are just ignored with digital TV.
>
Yes. That's what I said.
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Start Your Personalized Debt Relief Plan Today!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fe7e8a48f4040fcb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 3:02 pm
From: Hureon Consulting

STOP! letting others tell you that you can't manage your own debt
problems. Hureon Consulting offers specialized "Debt Relief Programs"
aimed at teaching you, the consumer how to settle your debt and gain
Financial Freedom!

The Debt Settlement Strategies contained in these programs focus on
the "top three financial problems" facing us today, they include loan
modification for those facing foreclosure because of a higher interest
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restoration which helps you improve your credit score in as little as
30 days.

For More Info Visit: http://www.hureonconsulting.com

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 4:55 pm
From: tmclone

On Jul 29, 1:37 am, Coffee's For Closers <Usenet2...@THE-DOMAIN-
IN.SIG> wrote:

Please just go kill yourself. Why is it that you keep popping up in
every newgroup I read? Did you follow me here? Please take your
negative, anti-mommy, anti-husband screed elsewhere. PLEASE!! I'm
childfree, and assholefree. You are definintely an ASSHOLE!! GO
AWAY!!!!!!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 5:08 pm
From: "Jeff Strickland"

<tripletask@gmail..com> wrote in message
news:tsr056hrg5nvo0bt5dq3s91jmlpi04u8t5@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:10:37 -0400, No Surrender@never.net wrote:
>
>>AN E-MAIL FROM A FRIEND
>>
>>HEAD: What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?

If they left California, our budget problems -- $10 Billion deficit -- would
be gone tomorrow. I have trouble understanding the down side of that.

We spend ten billion tax dollars per year on the illegal immigrant
population in this state. We'd have to find a way to staff the carwash, and
that might be difficult. But there are plenty of legal immigrants that need
the jobs, so it wouldn't be impossible.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 8:08 pm
From: edspyhill01

On Jul 29, 8:08 pm, "Jeff Strickland" <crwlrj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <tripletask@gmail..com> wrote in message
>
> news:tsr056hrg5nvo0bt5dq3s91jmlpi04u8t5@4ax.com...
>
> > On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:10:37 -0400, No Surren...@never.net wrote:
>
> >>AN E-MAIL FROM A FRIEND
>
> >>HEAD: What if 20 Million Illegal Aliens Vacated America?
>
> If they left California, our budget problems -- $10 Billion deficit -- would
> be gone tomorrow. I have trouble understanding the down side of that.
>

No it wouldn't. To fix the deficits in all states you'd have to
convert all government workers' and teachers' defined pensions to
401K's. It's the pensions.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOT ANUSHKA PICTURES FOR BOLLYWOOD FANS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d091ba1998b3565a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 5:27 pm
From: ANUSHKA

HOT ANUSHKA PICTURES FOR BOLLYWOOD FANS
-------------------------------------
http://sites.google.com/site/anushkaphotosalert

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did you catch Oprah. the Dumpster Diving show
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5ac35594324ae0a3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 5:35 pm
From: VFW

Americans waste too much.
--
Money! What a concept.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 10:15 pm
From: The Real Bev

On 07/29/10 17:35, VFW wrote:

> Americans waste too much.

And most of the rest of the world hopes to be able to live like us one day.

--
Cheers, Bev
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I lock
every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there
picking the locks, they are always locking three.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 6:34 pm
From: aemeijers

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Penny writes:
>
>> The woman, a petite 5-foot-4, 110 pounds ...
>
> For what it's worth, the average height for women in the U.S. is 5 feet 4
> inches, so she's not petite.
>
>> ... because the overweight passenger in question was only 14 and
>> they were trying to spare the teen embarrassment.
>
> Sparing the teen embarrassment will result in her weighing about three times
> as much when she's 35, just before she dies of diabetic complications and
> cardiovascular disease.

Some of them hang on for an amazingly long time. There is one in my
office, probably around my age (early 50s) that has to weigh twice what
I do, and I'm no lightweight, and am close to a foot taller. First met
her 30 years ago when I started, when she was maybe 75 pounds lighter.
ISTR the clinical term is 'morbidly obese'. I never expected her to make
it past 40.

But yeah, 14 and fat is still mostly the parent's fault. A fat 14 was,
in all odds, at least a chunky 8 year old. In my experience, fat kids,
more often than not, have fat parents, and get their dietary/exercise
habits from them. So the parents are in denial that the kid has a
problem, and usually have plenty of crap food around the house.

And save your flames- I am borderline fat myself (Just a big gut,
thankfully), so I know what it is like to be food-dependent, with a
mother with too many kids who used food to shut us up so she could get
some work done. But at least I'm not sliding any further into the hole,
and occasionally make it a little ways back up the hill.

--
aem sends...

--
aem sends....

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 6:38 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

Yes, Germany is considering, not another invasion, but fighting
obesity by taxing it...

'Marco Wanderwitz, a conservative member of parliament for the German
state of Saxony, said it is unfair and unsustainable for the taxpayer
to carry the entire cost of treating obesity-related illnesses in the
public health system.

"I think that it would be sensible if those who deliberately lead
unhealthy lives would be held financially accountable for that,"
Wanderwitz said,'

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/germany-weighs-tax-on-the-obese/19566425

Well, provided they have the opportunity to "burn the
calories" (hopefully walking or riding bike) they really have no
excuse to keep the struggle with the bulge.

I would give them tax credits for leading healthy lifestyles. I say
that because I'm within a reasonable weight limit, but my "life in the
cage" makes it a high health risk nevertheless. Of course, this is not
by choice, but just an strategy for survival.

Perhaps SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST is the right motto here. ;)

-----------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"Live like a monkey or die like a pig"

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 7:35 pm
From: Alex

Hi Everyone ...

Today Oprah had an episode about frugal living, and one suggestion was
to unplug most items when not in use. I've known for some time that
many electrical items like TV, cable box, etc use electricity even
when off, but while watching the show I started wondering if timers
could help cut back on how much electricity those devices use.

My thought is this weekend I'll pick-up a Kill-a-watt meter plus a GE
7-day plug-in timer, both of which at home depot would be about $45.
My thought is to gauge how much electricity the things in our
entertainment center use per hour when not in use (HDTV, cable box,
BluRay, AppleTV, and Wii) and if I can set the timer to only bring
power to these devices say from 4:30pm to 11pm M-F then change the
weekend schedule as needed, this would cut the usage by a large
percentage. Then I could do the same for the cable modem/router and
even the microwave in the house.

Has anyone investigated doing something like this? They just
installed a Smartmeter at our house, so hopefully soon we'll be able
to see how much electricity our house uses in 15 minute intervals
anytime.

Thanks for any advice...

Alex

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 8:39 pm
From: Michael Black

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010, Alex wrote:

How many of those devices need power to keep settings? If they don't then
you don't need a timer, just put them on a master switch of some kind and
turn them off when you don't need them. Indeed, it's a useful thing
anyway since you are likely to use them all together, and having single
switch for them all means you don't have to fuss with multiple on/off
switches like you're in the cockpit of an airplane.

You can check each device. Unplug them for ten minutes or so, then
see how much resetting you need to do before you can actually use them.
Chances are good many will require some work, and thus you won't want
to turn them off. That they don't have some internal backup to keep
the settings when power disappears is a completely different matter, and
really that's where the fussing should go.

Unless you are willing to redo the settings each time you turn on the
devices, you won't want to do anything but leave them plugged in.

Why would a timer be better than a switch? You end up spending more
money for a timer than a switch, but all it does is turn things on
and off without you having to remember to turn things off. It's way
cheaper to just remember.

Timers on heating, which I assume is where you got this "idea",
is a very different matter. There, you want temperatures to be
reasonable when you get up, or when you come home. Thus you either
add a timer to turn the heat on enough of a time before you get up
or come home, or you live with the cold until it warms up once you get up
or come home to turn on the heat. A very different matter, you need
things turned on while you are still in bed or still out.

The things at home don't need that warming up. You get up and flip
the switch. Or come home and flip the switch.

Buying gadgets isn't necessarily a frugal thing.

If you want to know about current drain, pull everything out of your
AC outlets and record the time and the reading on your electric meter.
Leave things unplugged for an hour, maybe a few hours (I suspect the
longer you leave things off, the easier it will be to get a good reading).
When the time period is over, read the electric meter again, then subtract
the first reading from the second, and you know what power has been
used in that time.

Then, plug things back in but don't turn them on. Record the time and
the reading on the electric meter when you do this, and then sit back
witout using things for the same length of time. Then get the electric
meter reading, subtract the reading at the start from the reading at
the end.

You now have two values of consumption, one without your devices plugged
in, the other with them plugged in. Is it some value that you will
really fuss about, or not? Figure out how much money you pay per hour for
that current drain, and then scale it up. Is it something to worry about,
or will that light you leave on over the front door be more significant?

If you find the draw excessive, then the thing to do is start dealing with
what you can live without.

A device that you don't use very often might as well not be plugged in
all the time, you can live with any resetting of things on the occasions
you do use the device. YOu likely will find some devices draw current
but not to keep memory alive, and those might as well be turned off
when not being used.

Michael

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 9:17 pm
From: Metspitzer

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:35:33 -0700 (PDT), Alex <samalex@gmail.com>
wrote:

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 29 2010 10:49 pm
From: "Bill"

A timer is a good idea for something like a cable TV box or satellite box.
Those need to be on awhile before you can use them, so not easy to pull the
plug.

Other than that, I use power strips WITHOUT an "on light" on the switch.
These are hard to find anymore since most now have a power on light. But I
found one type which has a solid black plastic switch and no power on light.

Then I can place these power strips in an easy to reach location and easily
switch things off when not in use.

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 24 new messages in 12 topics - digest