Frugal Living: Mar 30, 2010

Tuesday, March 30, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: good
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3d90fc498e3c3c35?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 29 2010 11:54 pm
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==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3c10917c36251fd3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 2:07 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lightning Safety
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/627ca8c40d583bbf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 4:31 am
From: dr_jeff

DemoDisk wrote:
> "Al" <albundy2@mailinator.com> wrote in message
> news:89f73726-e865-469e-8f8e-876ff3e7a5c3@g26g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 17, 9:15 am, zeez <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Also, DO NOT LIE FLAT, but rather squat down, feet together, hands
>> over ears/head. This is due to current in the ground that can be fatal
>> if it crosses your heart.
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I saw you in the park and though you
> were taking a crap.
>
>
> Was it umbrella weather?

You can have lightening without rain. Of course, they usually go
together, but not always.

Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: windows faxing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1b2270a25858f347?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 6:33 am
From: noel888

On Mar 29, 2:46 am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote in news:af4100cf-072f-4e2a-ac17-
> af6ddf381...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
> > question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to respond to
> > most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an important fax
> > over my computer. I have windows XP fax program already installed. I
> > have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is going to the data
> > inport...i know when i had the old dial up i never had this problem,
> > but this is the first time i'm trying with a DSL modem. If I connect
> > that line that is going to my modem to my computer, won't i be 'off
> > line"? How else can i receive the fax then?
>
> There is no reason why you can't have a fax/modem in your computer.
> They work just fin right along side DSL.What you need to do is to
> get a phone line splitter. It's a thing that you plug into a phone
> jack and it provides two places to insert a phone cord. Be sure to
> install a DSL filter on the phone cord that is going away from the
> DSL modem. Then plug that into your fax/modem card.
>
> In case you had a hard tim followint that...
> Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
> -> filter ->Fax/modem.
>
> I got mine set up this way and it works just great for sending and
> receiving the occasional fax.

Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other going
to my computer's "phone line'' and then sent a test to myself to see
if it works. I clicked on incoming box and the fax program says its
answering and after about a minute i get a message that an error
occurred while receiving the fax. No other message.. i was thinking
should i put one of the wires into my computer's 'phone' input instead
of phone line? Thanks

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 10:07 am
From: noel888

On Mar 30, 9:33 am, noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Mar 29, 2:46 am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote in news:af4100cf-072f-4e2a-ac17-
> > af6ddf381...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
> > > question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to respond to
> > > most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an important fax
> > > over my computer. I have windows XP fax program already installed. I
> > > have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is going to the data
> > > inport...i know when i had the old dial up i never had this problem,
> > > but this is the first time i'm trying with a DSL modem. If I connect
> > > that line that is going to my modem to my computer, won't i be 'off
> > > line"? How else can i receive the fax then?
>
> > There is no reason why you can't have a fax/modem in your computer.
> > They work just fin right along side DSL.What you need to do is to
> > get a phone line splitter. It's a thing that you plug into a phone
> > jack and it provides two places to insert a phone cord. Be sure to
> > install a DSL filter on the phone cord that is going away from the
> > DSL modem. Then plug that into your fax/modem card.
>
> > In case you had a hard tim followint that...
> > Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
> > -> filter ->Fax/modem.
>
> > I got mine set up this way and it works just great for sending and
> > receiving the occasional fax.
>
> Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
> wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other going
> to my computer's "phone line'' and then sent a test to myself to see
> if it works. I clicked on incoming box and the fax program says its
> answering and after about a minute i get a message that an error
> occurred while receiving the fax. No other message.. i was thinking
> should i put one of the wires into my computer's 'phone' input instead
> of phone line? Thanks

The continuing saga is that i now get a message that my line is busy,
as i am trying to send myself a fax as a test. BTW, cannot find a way
to end the transmission. ..all together...it keeps repeating to send
it. I went to tools/ of fax monitor and disconnect there, but it still
keeps repeating with that same message 'line is busy".

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 11:48 am
From: "Rod Speed"

noel888 wrote:
> On Mar 29, 2:46 am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>> noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote in news:af4100cf-072f-4e2a-ac17-
>> af6ddf381...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>> Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
>>> question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to respond
>>> to most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an important
>>> fax over my computer. I have windows XP fax program already
>>> installed. I have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is going to
>>> the data inport...i know when i had the old dial up i never had
>>> this problem, but this is the first time i'm trying with a DSL
>>> modem. If I connect that line that is going to my modem to my
>>> computer, won't i be 'off line"? How else can i receive the fax
>>> then?
>>
>> There is no reason why you can't have a fax/modem in your computer.
>> They work just fin right along side DSL.What you need to do is to
>> get a phone line splitter. It's a thing that you plug into a phone
>> jack and it provides two places to insert a phone cord. Be sure to
>> install a DSL filter on the phone cord that is going away from the
>> DSL modem. Then plug that into your fax/modem card.
>>
>> In case you had a hard tim followint that...
>> Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
>> -> filter ->Fax/modem.
>>
>> I got mine set up this way and it works just great for sending and
>> receiving the occasional fax.
>
> Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
> wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other going
> to my computer's "phone line''

Did you really leave out the filter on the fax line ? Thats essential.

> and then sent a test to myself to see if it works.

You cant send a fax to yourself to test it.

> I clicked on incoming box and the fax program says its
> answering and after about a minute i get a message that an error
> occurred while receiving the fax. No other message..

> i was thinking should i put one of the wires into my
> computer's 'phone' input instead of phone line?

Nope, your original config is correct, but that line must
have a filter on it, just like normal phones need one too.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 11:50 am
From: "Rod Speed"

noel888 wrote:
> On Mar 30, 9:33 am, noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 29, 2:46 am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote in news:af4100cf-072f-4e2a-ac17-
>>> af6ddf381...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>> Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
>>>> question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to
>>>> respond to most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an
>>>> important fax over my computer. I have windows XP fax program
>>>> already installed. I have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is
>>>> going to the data inport...i know when i had the old dial up i
>>>> never had this problem, but this is the first time i'm trying with
>>>> a DSL modem. If I connect that line that is going to my modem to
>>>> my computer, won't i be 'off line"? How else can i receive the fax
>>>> then?
>>
>>> There is no reason why you can't have a fax/modem in your computer.
>>> They work just fin right along side DSL.What you need to do is to
>>> get a phone line splitter. It's a thing that you plug into a phone
>>> jack and it provides two places to insert a phone cord. Be sure to
>>> install a DSL filter on the phone cord that is going away from the
>>> DSL modem. Then plug that into your fax/modem card.
>>
>>> In case you had a hard tim followint that...
>>> Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
>>> -> filter ->Fax/modem.
>>
>>> I got mine set up this way and it works just great for sending and
>>> receiving the occasional fax.
>>
>> Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
>> wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other going
>> to my computer's "phone line'' and then sent a test to myself to see
>> if it works. I clicked on incoming box and the fax program says its
>> answering and after about a minute i get a message that an error
>> occurred while receiving the fax. No other message.. i was thinking
>> should i put one of the wires into my computer's 'phone' input
>> instead of phone line? Thanks
>
> The continuing saga is that i now get a message that my line is busy,
> as i am trying to send myself a fax as a test.

Yes, thats why you cant fax yourself like that.

> BTW, cannot find a way to end the transmission. ..
> all together...it keeps repeating to send it. I went
> to tools/ of fax monitor and disconnect there, but it still
> keeps repeating with that same message 'line is busy".

You need to delete that fax from the fax queue.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 12:37 pm
From: noel888

On Mar 30, 2:48 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> noel888 wrote:
> > On Mar 29, 2:46 am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> >> noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote in news:af4100cf-072f-4e2a-ac17-
> >> af6ddf381...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>> Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
> >>> question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to respond
> >>> to most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an important
> >>> fax over my computer. I have windows XP fax program already
> >>> installed. I have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is going to
> >>> the data inport...i know when i had the old dial up i never had
> >>> this problem, but this is the first time i'm trying with a DSL
> >>> modem. If I connect that line that is going to my modem to my
> >>> computer, won't i be 'off line"? How else can i receive the fax
> >>> then?
>
> >> There is no reason why you can't have a fax/modem in your computer.
> >> They work just fin right along side DSL.What you need to do is to
> >> get a phone line splitter. It's a thing that you plug into a phone
> >> jack and it provides two places to insert a phone cord. Be sure to
> >> install a DSL filter on the phone cord that is going away from the
> >> DSL modem. Then plug that into your fax/modem card.
>
> >> In case you had a hard tim followint that...
> >> Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
> >> -> filter ->Fax/modem.
>
> >> I got mine set up this way and it works just great for sending and
> >> receiving the occasional fax.
>
> > Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
> > wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other going
> > to my computer's "phone line''
>
> Did you really leave out the filter on the fax line ? Thats essential.
>
> > and then sent a test to myself to see if it works.
>
> You cant send a fax to yourself to test it.
>
> > I clicked on incoming box and the fax program says its
> > answering and after about a minute i get a message that an error
> > occurred while receiving the fax. No other message..
> > i was thinking should i put one of the wires into my
> > computer's 'phone' input instead of phone line?
>
> Nope, your original config is correct, but that line must
> have a filter on it, just like normal phones need one too.

I do have a filter on that line.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 12:49 pm
From: SMS

On 28/03/10 12:36 PM, noel888 wrote:
> Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
> question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to respond to
> most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an important fax
> over my computer. I have windows XP fax program already installed. I
> have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is going to the data
> inport...i know when i had the old dial up i never had this problem,
> but this is the first time i'm trying with a DSL modem. If I connect
> that line that is going to my modem to my computer, won't i be 'off
> line"? How else can i receive the fax then?

You can connect the line going to the DSL modem to the RJ11 on the
FAX/Modem on the computer, but of course you can't send a FAX to
yourself because you're off-hook when you're sending it.

Use this service to test your FAX/modem:

"http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00259105&cc=us&lc=en&dlc=en&product=351106&dlc=en&lang=en"

1. Send a one page black and white text fax to 1-888-hpfaxme
(1-888-473-2963).

2. When your fax is received by the HP Test Fax Service, we will
generate a return fax to you within five minutes confirming that we
received your fax. This verifies that you can both send and receive a
fax with your fax machine.

If you find yourself frequently receiving or sending FAXes then sign up
for an account at faxaway.com. It's not free. They charge a $1 a month
fee. Incoming faxes are at no cost. Outgoing faxes in the Continental
U.S. are 11 cents/minute. You can FAX PDFs or Word documents. You can't
just sign up for $1 because the minimum they'll do a credit card charge
for is $10. It's a lot less expensive than eFAX, but if this is a
one-time thing you can sign up for the 30 day free trial of eFAX then
cancel before the 30 days are up. eFAX no longer offers a free account
with free incoming.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 2:42 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

noel888 wrote:
> On Mar 30, 2:48 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> noel888 wrote:
>>> On Mar 29, 2:46 am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>>>> noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote in news:af4100cf-072f-4e2a-ac17-
>>>> af6ddf381...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>>>> Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
>>>>> question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to
>>>>> respond to most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an
>>>>> important fax over my computer. I have windows XP fax program
>>>>> already installed. I have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is
>>>>> going to the data inport...i know when i had the old dial up i
>>>>> never had this problem, but this is the first time i'm trying
>>>>> with a DSL modem. If I connect that line that is going to my
>>>>> modem to my computer, won't i be 'off line"? How else can i
>>>>> receive the fax then?
>>
>>>> There is no reason why you can't have a fax/modem in your computer.
>>>> They work just fin right along side DSL.What you need to do is to
>>>> get a phone line splitter. It's a thing that you plug into a phone
>>>> jack and it provides two places to insert a phone cord. Be sure to
>>>> install a DSL filter on the phone cord that is going away from the
>>>> DSL modem. Then plug that into your fax/modem card.
>>
>>>> In case you had a hard tim followint that...
>>>> Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
>>>> -> filter ->Fax/modem.
>>
>>>> I got mine set up this way and it works just great for sending and
>>>> receiving the occasional fax.
>>
>>> Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
>>> wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other
>>> going to my computer's "phone line''
>>
>> Did you really leave out the filter on the fax line ? Thats
>> essential.
>>
>>> and then sent a test to myself to see if it works.
>>
>> You cant send a fax to yourself to test it.
>>
>>> I clicked on incoming box and the fax program says its
>>> answering and after about a minute i get a message that an error
>>> occurred while receiving the fax. No other message..
>>> i was thinking should i put one of the wires into my
>>> computer's 'phone' input instead of phone line?
>>
>> Nope, your original config is correct, but that line must
>> have a filter on it, just like normal phones need one too.
>
> I do have a filter on that line.

Then try sending a fax to some other fax machine. You cant send one to yourself.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 3:56 pm
From: noel888

On Mar 30, 5:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> noel888 wrote:
> > On Mar 30, 2:48 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> noel888 wrote:
> >>> On Mar 29, 2:46 am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> >>>> noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote in news:af4100cf-072f-4e2a-ac17-
> >>>> af6ddf381...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>>>> Hi everyone, i know that this may not be the right forum for this
> >>>>> question, but from past experience, this forum has a way to
> >>>>> respond to most questions in the fastest way. I am expecting an
> >>>>> important fax over my computer. I have windows XP fax program
> >>>>> already installed. I have a dsl modem where my telephone lint is
> >>>>> going to the data inport...i know when i had the old dial up i
> >>>>> never had this problem, but this is the first time i'm trying
> >>>>> with a DSL modem. If I connect that line that is going to my
> >>>>> modem to my computer, won't i be 'off line"? How else can i
> >>>>> receive the fax then?
>
> >>>> There is no reason why you can't have a fax/modem in your computer.
> >>>> They work just fin right along side DSL.What you need to do is to
> >>>> get a phone line splitter. It's a thing that you plug into a phone
> >>>> jack and it provides two places to insert a phone cord. Be sure to
> >>>> install a DSL filter on the phone cord that is going away from the
> >>>> DSL modem. Then plug that into your fax/modem card.
>
> >>>> In case you had a hard tim followint that...
> >>>> Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
> >>>> -> filter ->Fax/modem.
>
> >>>> I got mine set up this way and it works just great for sending and
> >>>> receiving the occasional fax.
>
> >>> Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
> >>> wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other
> >>> going to my computer's "phone line''
>
> >> Did you really leave out the filter on the fax line ? Thats
> >> essential.
>
> >>> and then sent a test to myself to see if it works.
>
> >> You cant send a fax to yourself to test it.
>
> >>> I clicked on incoming box and the fax program says its
> >>> answering and after about a minute i get a message that an error
> >>> occurred while receiving the fax. No other message..
> >>> i was thinking should i put one of the wires into my
> >>> computer's 'phone' input instead of phone line?
>
> >> Nope, your original config is correct, but that line must
> >> have a filter on it, just like normal phones need one too.
>
> > I do have a filter on that line.
>
> Then try sending a fax to some other fax machine. You cant send one to yourself.

Thank you all it works just fine all this time wasted by me trying
to test one to myself. LOL
Happy holidays!!!

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 6:08 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <39f223d7-4759-43cf-b15d-a9f27a73c1ea@d33g2000vbu.googlegroups.com>,
noel888 <harri85274@aol.com> wrote:
>On Mar 29, 2:46�am, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
[ ... ]

>> In case you had a hard tim followint that...
>> Phone jack on wall -> Splitter -> DSL Modem
>> � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � -> filter ->Fax/modem.

[ ... ]
>Well I followed your suggestion, i think i added a splitter to the
>wall jack and had one wire going to my DSL internet , the other going
>to my computer's "phone line'' [ ... ]

The splitter Gordon referred to is a DSL splitter, not just a
one-jack-into-two (1-2-2) type splitter. They look like the one
here:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,14345923

in the image about half-way down, plugged into the "Line" jack.
That blocks the DSL signal from interfering with the telephone
or fax signal. You need to plug one of those into one side of
the 1-2-2 splitter plugged into your wall jack, and your DSL
modem into the other. The jack on the DSL splitter is then
connected to your fax jack. If it has two jacks, you need the
one marked as "Line" or which has a graphic looking like a cord
plugged into a wall. The one marked "Phone" or which has a phone
graphic is disconnected internally when the fax is trying to use
the line to prevent interference.

This setup should allow you to send or receive faxes while online.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

"It's kind of hard to rally 'round a math class."
Paul "Bear" Bryant

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BOYCOTT AT&T!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/49542d0ae7fbf3aa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 7:36 am
From: Jeff Thies

Gordon wrote:
> "Whistleblower" <Justice@USA.con> wrote in
> news:hor807$ljl$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> For a business, the website customer-screwing by AT&T is the worst of
>> all. I had my site for years and it had a high ranking with the search
>> engines - top10. Now I have been FORCED to move it to another host
>> with a new URL unknown to the search engines. My initial outlay for 3
>> years of webhosting and a domain was over $150. Fortunately I was able
>> to upload my site to the new host without the typical professional fee
>> of $250 to do so, but it took alot of my time. In addition, I'll have
>> to toss and replace about $50 worth of business cards with my old URL
>> web address on them, replace other printed materials with the old URL,
>> change many documents, and inform many contacts. I will inevitably
>> lose business because the old URL, now in many website links and
>> hard-copy publications, has become useless.
>
> Who's the bigger fool here? As a business, you should have your own
> registered domain name. Your e-mail should be under that domain
> name, your web site should be under that domain name. You web site
> should be hosted separately from your ISP for just this reason.
> I have been through several ISP's in the last 10 years and have
> not had to update or replace anything. I have not had to notify anyone
> of a new e-mail address. It's all portable. The only change
> required is to change a few settings over at Godaddy.com and
> no-one even knows that I changed ISP's.

All valid points. What irked me was them dropping usenet with no
compensation or recourse. The old Lily Tomlin bit fits here.

Fortunately their usenet sucked and it wasn't a great loss, no doubt
the same as their web hosting. Don't ever get web hosting where you
don't control the domain name.

I'm currently irritated with AT&T for filtering out the port for
mail, they force you to use their email server for sending mail. What's
with that?

Jeff
>
> It also makes it easy to vote with my wallet.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 12:37 pm
From: "Whistleblower"

"Harold Burton" <hal.i.burton@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hal.i.burton-343002.21593629032010@news.newsguy.com...
> In article <hor807$ljl$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Whistleblower" <Justice@USA.con> wrote:
>
>> BEWARE OF and AVOID doing business with AT&T!
>
>
> Yet another whiner who doesn't pay attention to his contracts.
>
> snicker.

Yet another snickering troll in need of psychiatric treatment -

HOW TO DEFEAT THE TROLLS

An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord
on the Internet. He or she slanders others and seeks to cause
conflicts and upset people. Trolls are malicious, antisocial,
and often mentally ill. They crave attention, and care not
whether it is positive or negative. The Internet is a
convenient venue for their bizarre, misanthropic games - a
means to abuse others without fear of retaliation. Trolls are
cowards - lacking the courage to be overtly hostile towards
people, they hide behind their computers and the anonymity of
the Internet. The troll is a less intelligent version of the
malicious hacker or virus writer.

Trolls are impervious to meaningful dialogue. You CANNOT reason
with them and you CANNOT cause them to feel shame or
compassion. Trolls do not feel bound by rules of courtesy or
social responsibility. They are simply not playing with a full
deck. It is futile to try to "cure" a troll of his obsession.
Trolls are irrational and not accessible through any sane approach.

Established posters may leave a newsgroup/message board because
of troll-created conflicts, and lurkers (readers that do not
post) may not want to expose themselves to abuse and therefore
never speak up. Thus they unwisely allow the troll to violate
their rights of free speech and expression. The Internet is a
vital resource - and probably the last stand for free speech.
Being antisocial, trolls hate this and try to subvert it.

When you try to reason with a troll, he wins. When you curse at
a troll, he wins. If he succeeds in angering you, he's succeeded.
THE ONLY THING THE TROLL CAN'T HANDLE IS BEING IGNORED -
having NO EFFECT on his intended targets!

So the best way to deal with trolls is to IGNORE THEM and
occasionally (and ONLY occasionally) remind others not to
respond to them either.

Hard to ignore? You can set up your computer to AUTOMATICALLY
ignore the troll by using your KILLFILE. Just go to the
offensive message, and bring your pointer to the "MESSAGE" tab
near the top of your screen. Click, and a menu opens. Go to and
click on "BLOCK SENDER." You will no longer see any of the
sender's posts from that account. This is called "plonking" the troll.

Ignored, these children will have to find another game to play.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 1:01 pm
From: tmclone

On Mar 30, 3:37 pm, "Whistleblower" <Just...@USA.con> wrote:
> "Harold Burton" <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hal.i.burton-343002.21593629032010@news.newsguy.com...
>
> > In article <hor807$lj...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > "Whistleblower" <Just...@USA.con> wrote:
>
> >> BEWARE OF and AVOID doing business with AT&T!
>
> > Yet another whiner who doesn't pay attention to his contracts.
>
> > snicker.
>
> Yet another snickering troll in need of psychiatric treatment -
>

Huh? The OP is the one who comes off like a troll. Ok, PLONK!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ★☆★☆Cheap Accessories paypal wholesale free shipping (www.vipchinatrade.
com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/47b6d688adeba116?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 8:15 am
From: yoyotrade

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hard to be frugal with movies
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a2bd3b621184adc4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 10:27 am
From: "Brian Kraft"

Les Cargill wrote in part:

>Netflix' on demand is very limited

You mean 'Watch Instantly'? It's expanding. They're adding titles that
I would watch faster than I can conveniently watch them, and that's been
sucking the life out of all my other ways of taking in movies.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 10:32 am
From: "Brian Kraft"

Rod Speed wrote in part:

>Spork wrote
>
>> I've been with netflix for a very long time. They are awesome.
>
>More convenient to get stuff off the net.

Much Netflix stuff is on the net.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A Free Business Directory with Trading Platform. Add your Company
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/657e88a0f5087360?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 1:17 pm
From: Web

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: $.02 worth?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/61eda3366bbda062?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 2:48 pm
From: tmclone

On Mar 29, 8:40 pm, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
> VFW <george...@toast.net> wrote in news:georgeswk-D64F89.09405729032010
> @news.toast.net:
>
> > The cleverest man ----- One who always does what he thinks is right
>
> I disagree. GWB did what he thought was right and was not very clever
> at all.

That premise is debatable. I take exception to the idea that W is
capable of "thought" in the first place. And VFW (the OP?) is a known
troll who posts on many, many newsgroups. It's been plonked by most
people.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 3:34 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:48:13 -0700 (PDT), tmclone
<tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote:

>On Mar 29, 8:40?pm, Gordon <go...@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>> VFW <george...@toast.net> wrote in news:georgeswk-D64F89.09405729032010
>> @news.toast.net:
>>
>> > The cleverest man ----- One who always does what he thinks is right
>>
>> I disagree. GWB did what he thought was right and was not very clever
>> at all.
>
>That premise is debatable. I take exception to the idea that W is
>capable of "thought" in the first place. And VFW (the OP?) is a known
>troll who posts on many, many newsgroups. It's been plonked by most
>people.

He seems a decent sort, with good values.
Why would anybody plonk him?
What have you found objectionable?
Maybe I missed something.

--Vic

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 9:43 pm
From: VFW

In article <Xns9D4AB3D715CE5greederxprtnet@94.75.214.90>,
Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:

> VFW <georgeswk@toast.net> wrote in news:georgeswk-D64F89.09405729032010
> @news.toast.net:
>
> > The cleverest man ----- One who always does what he thinks is right
>
> I disagree. GWB did what he thought was right and was not very clever
> at all.

GWB was not the president. Dick Cheney called the shots. They left
georgie to read about Pet Goats.
--
Money; What a Concept !

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SUNFLOWER MARKET mismanaged yuppie store, advice on smart shopping
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/45fcf15b2de20ad8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 4:02 pm
From: starwars

The Tucson Sunflower Markets location (they have many other multi-state
locations) I have shopped at is really badly managed. Most "farmers"
would be embarrassed or fail if they managed their farms like this place
is managed.

Have had this happen several times now, where the cashier refuses to
give a raincheck and makes the customer and anyone else in line wait
several minutes while the clerks,who should have kept the stock up go
about looking the back room to see if they have more stock and then wait
until they shelve the product. They are trying to obstruct the issuance
of rainchecks by this tactic.

I have worked to limit my shopping at Sunflower,the only advantage being
they are close to my location. But it is a PITA to shop there, very poor
experiences.

This refusing to issue a timely raincheck will be reported to the proper
consumer and regulatory agencies.

On several occasions I have witnessed cashiers vehemently arguing with
customers. When you ask them to find you a sale item they cannot and do
not want to look for it either.

I have had several instances of bad produce that was hidden from
view-celery that was rotten in the middle, same for coconuts. When I
asked one of the clerks about this he said it happens frequently because
they cannot get the coconuts fresh. So why are they selling them then?

Many times when I asked for double bagging of groceries my request went
ignored and had to return to the checkout again to get them double bagged.

The FREQUENTLY are out of ad sale items early in the ad time period and
more frequently than other stores they mis-scan or wrongly ring up items
over the true amount. Yet, in contrast to Fry's or Safeway they will not
give the full purchase price back on items they have mis-scanned.

They have NO corporate headquarters and their CEO Mike Gilligan in
boulder does not reply to faxes or consumer complaints.

They advertise that they have lower prices, but like most corporate
boasting, it's not true. Their prices on produce are sometimes lower
than the major markets, but not the lowest.

Food City has the lowest prices,(if your not predjudice and don't mind
shopping at a mostly hispanic staffed store), Food City is significantly
lower than Sunflower. Sunflower is filled mostly with yuppie, upper
middle class shoppers who pay high prices for specialty items. I mean
ridiculously high in most cases-West and East Coast high.

There are at least 3 major supermarkets all within 1-2 km of the
Sunflower on Speedway: Safeway at grant and swan, Fry's at craycroft and
swan, Grocery Outlet at speedway and craycroft. Thats just the major
close ones. For the best prices on non produce items go to Fry's. For
the best meat deals and sale deals, watch the ads and go to Safeway. For
the best deep discounts go to Grocery Outlet. And MOST of all for the
best, deeply discounted produce go to Food City, a few more kms away,
but not far. Additionally, there are Albertsons at campbell and pima.
Bashas has very good prices and Albertsons prices have really come down
lately, so they are no longer high.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Puffed wheat dust
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/28e42bceb8329878?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 5:36 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

I like the store-brand Smart Price Puffed Wheat cereal (A&P Waldbaum
Pathmark FoodEmporium Tangermann), but I get wheat dust all over the
place from it. I thought their using the more rigid bags would
eliminate the static electricity but it doesn't. I just found like a
layer of what dust on the outside of the bag. Any suggestions on
handling?

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Relax the muscles around your eyes & see better.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c846e495e620c44b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 30 2010 9:43 pm
From: VFW

there are various ways to eliminate the need for glasses;
visit;
http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/ads?client=ca-gurunet_wikians
wers_radlinks_js&hints=eyes+and+vision+disordersconditions+and+diseaseshe
alth&format=fp_al_lp&output=html&channel=Questions_ad_links&url=http%3A%2
F%2Fwiki.answers.com%2FQ%2FCan_poor_eye_sight_get_better_without_surgery&
kw_type=radlink&hl=en&rt=ChBLstDbAApA2gpvpgh8aQLYEhBJbXByb3ZpbmcgVmlzaW9u
GggVLrRZPdCmwygBUhMIkaWKm5TioAIVF8tvCh13JYOB&kw=Improving+Vision
--
Money; What a Concept !

==============================================================================

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misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 11 new messages in 6 topics - digest