Frugal Living: Aug 20, 2007

Monday, August 20, 2007

25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Hotel surprises - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2a8502259075190?hl=en
* Top 10 money drains - 10 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b4f42b2c99e847d?hl=en
* Woman is content living in 84-sq. ft. tiny dream home. - 7 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/911886124117ed11?hl=en
* Let's Unite Against Jews and Mongrels! - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/073e1531cdad2191?hl=en
* Deals website - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c7b1d3c7b42b3f7b?hl=en
* Ways to Save Energy and Fuel, & Therefore Money - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f5f6dcfc636271c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hotel surprises
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2a8502259075190?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 3:17 pm
From: Goomba38

clams casino wrote:
> Ward Abbott wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:58:17 -0700, Sam <yapyap_di@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Why should I pay for Paris Hilton's designer wardrobe when I shop the
>>> clearance rack?!
>>>
>>
>> Do you really believe that if you check into a Hilton property....they
>> send Parrasite Hilton a check? Sorry....but she is living off
>> trusts....and pays no INCOME TAX...She doesn't make any income from a
>> Hilton Trust.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> So her trust has no Hilton stock?
>
Think of all the "little people" who work for Hilton and how staying
there supports their jobs!
I do like the Hilton chain and won't hold the ditz Paris against them.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 3:17 pm
From: jdoe

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:48:21 -0400, Ward Abbott <presby@terian.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:58:17 -0700, Sam <yapyap_di@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Why should I pay for Paris Hilton's designer wardrobe when I shop the
>>clearance rack?!
>
>Do you really believe that if you check into a Hilton property....they
>send Parrasite Hilton a check? Sorry....but she is living off
>trusts....and pays no INCOME TAX...She doesn't make any income from a
>Hilton Trust.
>
and how do you know that she pays no income tax, and even if your
assertion is correct the trusts that fund her pay taxes
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 5:21 pm
From: "Don K"

"Sam" <yapyap_di@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1187621897.168744.108540@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
> Why should I pay for Paris Hilton's designer wardrobe when I shop the
> clearance rack?!

I don't know why you should.
Buy stuff only from poor people if that's your priority.
Or the virtuous.
Or the virtuous poor.
Or virtuous, poor, repentent sinners.
Or the virtuous poor who have never sinned.

>
> Whenever I stay in major cities on business travel (or pleasure), I
> always check into the nearest HOSTEL for approx. $23 bucks per night.
> Most of them have a range of ages and not just the college set. I
> make sure to do a little research into the cleanest ones via www.tripadvisor.com
> and book accordingly. I've heard some college and universities offer
> similar billeting during the summer, but I've never tried it. If I
> need a little more privacy, I'll check the short-term/sublet housing
> rentals on Craigslist.org- I've gotten use of an entire apartments for
> less than $50 nightly. Of course all frugal solutions require a bit
> of flexibility, but it sure beats shelling out for outrageous hotel
> rates.

Everyone chooses their own tradeoffs between price, comfort,
safety, sanitation, convenience, etc.

At the lowest end, one could spend the night in a cardboard box for free.
For a bit more comfort, one could share space with a potential psychopath.
For a bit more safety, one could move up to the motel6 class.
etc. etc., all the way up to the Four Seasons hotel.

Don

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 5:45 pm
From: clams casino

Goomba38 wrote:

> clams casino wrote:
>
>> Ward Abbott wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:58:17 -0700, Sam <yapyap_di@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why should I pay for Paris Hilton's designer wardrobe when I shop the
>>>> clearance rack?!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you really believe that if you check into a Hilton property....they
>>> send Parrasite Hilton a check? Sorry....but she is living off
>>> trusts....and pays no INCOME TAX...She doesn't make any income from a
>>> Hilton Trust.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> So her trust has no Hilton stock?
>>
> Think of all the "little people" who work for Hilton and how staying
> there supports their jobs!
> I do like the Hilton chain and won't hold the ditz Paris against them.

Bottom line is one has a choice. You patronize her or you don't.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Top 10 money drains
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b4f42b2c99e847d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 3:35 pm
From: "JonquilJan"

>
> Top 10 money drains
>
> It's easy to fritter away money on daily expenses. If you fall into
> these money traps, learn to avoid them and pocket the savings. Use
> Bankrate's Simple savings calculator to see how quickly your money
> piles up with interest.
> 10 money drains
> 1. Coffee 6. Car washes
> 2. Cigarettes 7. Weekday lunches out
> 3. Alcohol 8. Vending machines snacks
> 4. Bottled water 9. Interest charges on credit cards
> 5. Manicures 10. Unused memberships

The only one that relates to my lifestyle is #9 - and that is gradually
getting smaller and smaller and smaller - and soon will disappear -
hopefully for good.

Guess I lead a frugal life.

JonquilJan

Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 4:42 pm
From: val189

On Aug 19, 8:03 pm, Ablang <ron...@gmail.com> wrote:
> < Can you think of any not on this list? >
>
> Top 10 money drains
>
> It's easy to fritter away money on daily expenses. If you fall into
> these money traps, learn to avoid them and pocket the savings. Use
> Bankrate's Simple savings calculator to see how quickly your money
> piles up with interest.
> 10 money drains
> 1. Coffee 6. Car washes
> 2. Cigarettes 7. Weekday lunches out
> 3. Alcohol 8. Vending machines snacks
> 4. Bottled water 9. Interest charges on credit cards
> 5. Manicures 10. Unused memberships
>
> 1. Coffee -- According to the National Coffee Association, the average
> price for brewed coffee is $1.38. There are roughly 260 weekdays per
> year, so buying one coffee every weekday morning costs almost $360 per
> year.
>
> 2. Cigarettes -- The Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids reports that the
> average price for a pack of cigarettes in the United States is $4.54.
> Pack-a-day smokers fork out $1,660 a year. Weekend smoker? Buying a
> pack once a week adds up, too: $236.
>
> 3. Alcohol -- Drink prices vary based on the location. But assuming an
> average of $5 per beer including tip, buying two beers per day adds up
> to $3,650 per year. Figure twice that for two mixed drinks a day at
> the local bar. That's not chump change.
>
> 4. Bottled water from convenience stores -- A 20-ounce bottle of
> Aquafina bottled water costs about $1. One bottle of water per day
> costs $365 per year. It costs the environment plenty, too.
>
> 5. Manicures -- The Day Spa Magazine Price Survey of 2004 found that
> the average cost of a manicure is $20.53. A weekly manicure sets you
> back about $1,068 per year.
>
> 6. Car washes -- The average cost for a basic auto detailing package
> is $58, according to Costhelper.com. The tab for getting your car
> detailed every two months: $348 per year.
>
> 7. Weekday lunches out -- $9 will generally cover a decent lunch most
> work days. If you buy rather than pack a lunch five days a week for
> one year, you shell out about $2,350 a year.
>
> 8. Vending machines snacks -- The average vending machine snack costs
> $1. Buy a pack of cookies every afternoon at work and pay $260 per
> year.
>
> 9. Interest charges on credit card bills -- According to a survey
> released at the end of May 2007, the median amount of credit card debt
> carried by Americans is $6,600. Rate tables on Bankrate.com indicate
> that fixed interest rates on a standard card average 13.44 percent.
> Making the minimum payment each month, it will take 250 months (almost
> 21 years) to pay off the debt and cost $4,868 in interest. Ouch!
>
> 10. Unused memberships -- Costhelper.com reports that the monthly
> service fee at gyms averages between $35 and $40. At $40 per month, an
> unused gym membership runs $480 per year.
> -- Posted: July 23, 2007
>
> http://www.bankrate.com/nltrack/news/financial_literacy/July07_saving...

I'm not batting a thousand - I do indulge in a drink in a restaurant
once in a while - it's part of the treat of eating out.
I use my gym membership a lot - averaging 4-5 days per week.
The coffee places would close, if they waited for me. Likewise,
gambling joints, lotteries, tobacco growers, fireworks dealers, and
fast food places.

I do get a ten buck car wash about every month. Worth it to me.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 5:49 pm
From: "Don K"

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:FR7yi.18573$eY.18038@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
> Manicures-never had or wanted one-

Me neither. My wife used to get manicures as a "treat", but fortunately she
stopped after the last one caused a bad cuticle infection.

Don

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 5:51 pm
From: "Don K"

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:re9yi.294$JD.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
> I would never spend a penny for a custom ring on my cell. Each time I get a phone I
> select whatever built in ring sounds the closes to a standard land line phone. When I
> am in public I ignore the custom rings and recognize mine because it does what people
> think the custom rings will do,be easily recognizable as my phone.

I keep my cell phone in my pocket.
There's no reason to have it ring.

Don

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 6:02 pm
From: Gordon

"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in
news:_uWdnd14os9kq1fbnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@comcast.com:

> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> news:re9yi.294$JD.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>> I would never spend a penny for a custom ring on my cell. Each time
>> I get a phone I
>> select whatever built in ring sounds the closes to a standard land
>> line phone. When I am in public I ignore the custom rings and
>> recognize mine because it does what people think the custom rings
>> will do,be easily recognizable as my phone.
>
> I keep my cell phone in my pocket.
> There's no reason to have it ring.
>
> Don
>
>

Until it falls out of your pocket and you need to locate it.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 6:14 pm
From: Gordon

"<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote in
news:vk7ic39evhie3e4laige3mrbauv814i731@4ax.com:

>
> 1. Children
>
Yes, but it's too late now.

> 2. Credit Card debt
>
> 3. "Entertainment, eating out, bar drinks.

Having children tends to cure this one.

>
> 4. Overbought house

I'm a real estate agent, I see this all the time.
DINK wants a huge house. Usually I get them to reconsider
by asking who is going to be incharge of cleaning it.

>
> 5. Cellphone, hi-speed internet, cable or satellite TV
> ( add 'em up !! )

Agreed. But they can be played off each other. By making
long distance calls (free) on my cell phone, I cut my
landline bill. Also, with high speed internet, you can
go with VOIP phone service and trade off the savings in
phone service against the higher price of broadband internet.
If you have a landline phone, then DSL can be a less expensive
option to cable isp.

>
> 6. Overbought car/car payments

Just buy a good 3yo car for cash. I havn't finananced a
car in almost 20 years.
>
> 7 Insurance; house, health, auto, life. ( add 'em up )

Auto insurance isn't optional in many areas. If you get cought
driving without insurance you could get hit with some very
unfrugal fines. Around here they have a form called an SR-22.
If you are required to file an SR-22, you have to find an insurance
company the will issue it (not all do). And the ones that do are
the sub-prime, high rate insurers. Very unfrugal.
>
>
> I'm sure there are more.....
> <rj>

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 6:23 pm
From: George Grapman

Gordon wrote:
> "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in
> news:_uWdnd14os9kq1fbnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:re9yi.294$JD.93@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
>>> I would never spend a penny for a custom ring on my cell. Each time
>>> I get a phone I
>>> select whatever built in ring sounds the closes to a standard land
>>> line phone. When I am in public I ignore the custom rings and
>>> recognize mine because it does what people think the custom rings
>>> will do,be easily recognizable as my phone.
>> I keep my cell phone in my pocket.
>> There's no reason to have it ring.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>
> Until it falls out of your pocket and you need to locate it.

I always keep mine on at home so in case I misplace it

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 6:30 pm
From: George Grapman

Gordon wrote:
> "<RJ>" <baranick@localnet.com> wrote in
> news:vk7ic39evhie3e4laige3mrbauv814i731@4ax.com:
>
>> 1. Children
>>
> Yes, but it's too late now.
>
>
>> 2. Credit Card debt
>>
>> 3. "Entertainment, eating out, bar drinks.
>
> Having children tends to cure this one.
>
>> 4. Overbought house
>
> I'm a real estate agent, I see this all the time.
> DINK wants a huge house. Usually I get them to reconsider
> by asking who is going to be incharge of cleaning it.
>
>> 5. Cellphone, hi-speed internet, cable or satellite TV
>> ( add 'em up !! )
>
> Agreed. But they can be played off each other. By making
> long distance calls (free) on my cell phone, I cut my
> landline bill. Also, with high speed internet, you can
> go with VOIP phone service and trade off the savings in
> phone service against the higher price of broadband internet.
> If you have a landline phone, then DSL can be a less expensive
> option to cable isp.

I work at home and my primary land line has unlimited toll and long
distance. I use the cell as my call back number and list that on my
business cards. My other land line has my DSL and fax. That line has no
long distance carrier and no features. The few times that I need to send
an out of state fax I use a three cent a minute phone card.
People act surprised when I tell them my cell plan only has 450 peak
minutes and that peak time is 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. but the only times that I
have exceeded those limits has been on trips and the rollover minutes
have always covered that.

>
>> 6. Overbought car/car payments
>
> Just buy a good 3yo car for cash. I havn't finananced a
> car in almost 20 years.
>> 7 Insurance; house, health, auto, life. ( add 'em up )
>
> Auto insurance isn't optional in many areas. If you get cought
> driving without insurance you could get hit with some very
> unfrugal fines. Around here they have a form called an SR-22.
> If you are required to file an SR-22, you have to find an insurance
> company the will issue it (not all do). And the ones that do are
> the sub-prime, high rate insurers. Very unfrugal.
>>
>> I'm sure there are more.....
>> <rj>
>

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 8:19 pm
From: "Don K"

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:%7ryi.9819$3x.5880@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> Gordon wrote:
>> "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in
>> news:_uWdnd14os9kq1fbnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@comcast.com:

>>> I keep my cell phone in my pocket.
>>> There's no reason to have it ring.
>>
>> Until it falls out of your pocket and you need to locate it.
>
> I always keep mine on at home so in case I misplace it

My keys, wallet, and glasses don't ring either, yet I'm usually able to find
them without too much difficulty.

Don

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 8:51 pm
From: George Grapman

Don K wrote:
> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> news:%7ryi.9819$3x.5880@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>> Gordon wrote:
>>> "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in
>>> news:_uWdnd14os9kq1fbnZ2dnUVZ_judnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>
>>>> I keep my cell phone in my pocket.
>>>> There's no reason to have it ring.
>>> Until it falls out of your pocket and you need to locate it.
>> I always keep mine on at home so in case I misplace it
>
> My keys, wallet, and glasses don't ring either, yet I'm usually able to find
> them without too much difficulty.
>
> Don
>
>
I rarely need any of those item when I am home but I often use the cell.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Woman is content living in 84-sq. ft. tiny dream home.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/911886124117ed11?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 4:27 pm
From: CanopyCo

On Aug 16, 4:24?pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
>
> > freeisbest <demeter547op...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> Paul Thomas <paulthomas...@bellsouth.net> wrote
> >>> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
> >>>> The idea that a person cannot live in less then 1000 sq. ft is funny
> >>> Yeah, especially since she can't take a shower.........
> >>> As I remember, there's no running water.......
> >>> 'splain that one to your girlfriend's mother over dinner.
> >>> And I was under the impression that rednecks lived only in the south.
> >> No, they're everywhere. The south just has the ones who are *good* at it.
> >> North Carolina, frinstance.
> > It's not so much a matter of being a red neck as it is being poor.
> > Red neck is a sociological choice.
> > Poor is often not.
>
> Still is when the unemployment rate is 4.x% unless its physically
> impossible to work and very few are in that situation.

Unemployment rate has nothing to do with how many people are
unemployed or how many jobs are available.

It is based entirely on how may people are drawing unemployment
benefits.
Once those benefits run out, you are no longer considered unemployed.
Basically, only shows how many people are freshly unemployed and
therefore still drawing benefits.

Totally a political equation to fool people into thinking that the
government is doing something useful.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 4:31 pm
From: CanopyCo

On Aug 16, 9:13?pm, "Paul Thomas" <paulthomas...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "CanopyCo" <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
>
> > Red neck is a sociological choice.
>
> Boy? What parts are you from?
>
> Down here, you're redneck by Birth.
>
> --
> Paul A. Thomas, CPA
> Athens, Georgia

Oklahoma :-)

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 5:12 pm
From: Dean

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:27:22 -0700, CanopyCo <Junk74020@aol.com>
wrote:
>
>Unemployment rate has nothing to do with how many people are
>unemployed or how many jobs are available.
>
>It is based entirely on how may people are drawing unemployment
>benefits.
>Once those benefits run out, you are no longer considered unemployed.
>Basically, only shows how many people are freshly unemployed and
>therefore still drawing benefits.
>
>Totally a political equation to fool people into thinking that the
>government is doing something useful.

When benefits run out, an amazing thing happens. PEOPLE GO TO WORK.
This is born out by noting the number of homeless is not increasing to
match the number of people with lost benefits , nor is there a marked
increase in starving people in the US.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 5:21 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

CanopyCo <Junk74020@aol.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
>>> freeisbest <demeter547op...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> Paul Thomas <paulthomas...@bellsouth.net> wrote
>>>>> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote

>>>>>> The idea that a person cannot live in less then 1000 sq. ft is funny

>>>>> Yeah, especially since she can't take a shower.........
>>>>> As I remember, there's no running water.......
>>>>> 'splain that one to your girlfriend's mother over dinner.
>>>>> And I was under the impression that rednecks lived only in the south.

>>>> No, they're everywhere. The south just has the ones
>>>> who are *good* at it. North Carolina, frinstance.

>>> It's not so much a matter of being a red neck as it is being poor.
>>> Red neck is a sociological choice.
>>> Poor is often not.

>> Still is when the unemployment rate is 4.x% unless its physically
>> impossible to work and very few are in that situation.

> Unemployment rate has nothing to do with how many
> people are unemployed or how many jobs are available.

Wrong, its a measure of the number who are seeking work.

> It is based entirely on how may people are drawing unemployment benefits.

Wrong.
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

> Once those benefits run out, you are no longer considered unemployed.

Wrong.

> Basically, only shows how many people are freshly
> unemployed and therefore still drawing benefits.

Wrong.

> Totally a political equation to fool people into thinking
> that the government is doing something useful.

Wrong, as always.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 6:43 pm
From: CanopyCo

On Aug 20, 7:12?pm, Dean <roa...@firstinter.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:27:22 -0700, CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >Unemployment rate has nothing to do with how many people are
> >unemployed or how many jobs are available.
>
> >It is based entirely on how may people are drawing unemployment
> >benefits.
> >Once those benefits run out, you are no longer considered unemployed.
> >Basically, only shows how many people are freshly unemployed and
> >therefore still drawing benefits.
>
> >Totally a political equation to fool people into thinking that the
> >government is doing something useful.
>
> When benefits run out, an amazing thing happens. PEOPLE GO TO WORK.
> This is born out by noting the number of homeless is not increasing to
> match the number of people with lost benefits , nor is there a marked
> increase in starving people in the US.

Actually, most of them live with other family members so that they do
not have to live under a bridge.
And they do not starve due to food stamps.

Clearly you have no idea about reality.

There are more unemployed people then there are jobs.
That is why jobs can get away with paying so little.
No competition for the worker.
But lots of competition for the job.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 6:49 pm
From: CanopyCo

On Aug 20, 7:21?pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
> >>> freeisbest <demeter547op...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>>> Paul Thomas <paulthomas...@bellsouth.net> wrote
> >>>>> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
> >>>>>> The idea that a person cannot live in less then 1000 sq. ft is funny
> >>>>> Yeah, especially since she can't take a shower.........
> >>>>> As I remember, there's no running water.......
> >>>>> 'splain that one to your girlfriend's mother over dinner.
> >>>>> And I was under the impression that rednecks lived only in the south.
> >>>> No, they're everywhere. The south just has the ones
> >>>> who are *good* at it. North Carolina, frinstance.
> >>> It's not so much a matter of being a red neck as it is being poor.
> >>> Red neck is a sociological choice.
> >>> Poor is often not.
> >> Still is when the unemployment rate is 4.x% unless its physically
> >> impossible to work and very few are in that situation.
> > Unemployment rate has nothing to do with how many
> > people are unemployed or how many jobs are available.
>
> Wrong, its a measure of the number who are seeking work.
>
> > It is based entirely on how may people are drawing unemployment benefits.
>
> Wrong.http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm
>
> > Once those benefits run out, you are no longer considered unemployed.
>
> Wrong.
>
> > Basically, only shows how many people are freshly
> > unemployed and therefore still drawing benefits.
>
> Wrong.
>
> > Totally a political equation to fool people into thinking
> > that the government is doing something useful.
>
> Wrong, as always.
>

Oh, now I see its a survey .
Like that is any better.
I have never, nor do I know anyone that has ever been ask if they had
a job.
Apparently they don't send the survey to areas that have low job to
worker ratio.
And how often do the homeless get included in this survey?
They send them to the homeless in the streets?
Or just to people that can afford a home and therefore a mailing
address?

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 7:29 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

CanopyCo <Junk74020@aol.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote
>>>>> freeisbest <demeter547op...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>> Paul Thomas <paulthomas...@bellsouth.net> wrote
>>>>>>> CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote

>>>>>>>> The idea that a person cannot live in less then 1000 sq. ft is funny

>>>>>>> Yeah, especially since she can't take a shower.........

>>>>>>> As I remember, there's no running water.......
>>>>>>> 'splain that one to your girlfriend's mother over dinner.
>>>>>>> And I was under the impression that rednecks lived only in the south.

>>>>>> No, they're everywhere. The south just has the ones
>>>>>> who are *good* at it. North Carolina, frinstance.

>>>>> It's not so much a matter of being a red neck as it is being poor.
>>>>> Red neck is a sociological choice.
>>>>> Poor is often not.

>>>> Still is when the unemployment rate is 4.x% unless its physically
>>>> impossible to work and very few are in that situation.

>>> Unemployment rate has nothing to do with how many
>>> people are unemployed or how many jobs are available.

>> Wrong, its a measure of the number who are seeking work.

>>> It is based entirely on how may people are drawing unemployment benefits.

>> Wrong.http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm

>>> Once those benefits run out, you are no longer considered unemployed.

>> Wrong.

>>> Basically, only shows how many people are freshly
>>> unemployed and therefore still drawing benefits.

>> Wrong.

>>> Totally a political equation to fool people into thinking
>>> that the government is doing something useful.

>> Wrong, as always.

> Oh, now I see its a survey .
> Like that is any better.

Its a quite different number to the number receiving benefits.

> I have never, nor do I know anyone that has ever been ask if they had a job.

Irrelevant to the spectacular fool you made of yourself.

> Apparently they don't send the survey to areas that have low job to worker ratio.

Wrong, as always.

> And how often do the homeless get included in this survey?

They are such a small percentage of the total population that they are completely irrelevant.

> They send them to the homeless in the streets?
> Or just to people that can afford a home and therefore a mailing address?

They are such a small percentage of the total population that they are completely irrelevant.

They dont even amount to 0.1% of the unemployment rate.

The reality is that poor is STILL a sociological choice when the unemployment rate is 4.x%

You get to like that or lump it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Let's Unite Against Jews and Mongrels!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/073e1531cdad2191?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 4:29 pm
From: Nenad Milicevic - The Aryan Serb

Rise up and shine, white sons and daughters
Rise up and shine, you gotta fight to part those waters
When we swim in the light, all will be okay
The black, yellow and brown man will wash away.
------------------------------
Let's break the chains of Jewish and black domination! Unite, white
brothers and sisters, and let's defeat those who oppress our white
heritage!

Our skin is our uniform!

Serbian Committee for Aryan Defence
Nenad Milicevic, executive
ICQ 208030128
endymion@deadspam.com
endimion@myrealbox.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 8:39 pm
From: ray

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:29:23 -0700, Nenad Milicevic - The Aryan Serb
wrote:

> Rise up and shine, white sons and daughters
> Rise up and shine, you gotta fight to part those waters
> When we swim in the light, all will be okay
> The black, yellow and brown man will wash away.
> ------------------------------
> Let's break the chains of Jewish and black domination! Unite, white
> brothers and sisters, and let's defeat those who oppress our white
> heritage!
>
> Our skin is our uniform!
>
> Serbian Committee for Aryan Defence
> Nenad Milicevic, executive
> ICQ 208030128
> endymion@deadspam.com
> endimion@myrealbox.com

Much better idea - let's unite against bigotted idiots!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Deals website
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c7b1d3c7b42b3f7b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 6:17 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"Bob's Backfire Burrito" <BLAMPOW!@pullmyfinger.org> wrote in message
news:polyi.18634$eY.1390@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>
Pass his website along to those MI5 guys....

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ways to Save Energy and Fuel, & Therefore Money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f5f6dcfc636271c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 7:41 pm
From: plenty980@yahoo.com

Read about it at http://Muvy.org

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 18 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What the heck has happened here?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b2f712e04d6c1337?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 9:54 am
From: "Bill"

High school is out for the summer... Wait till fall.

"Wooly" wrote in message
>I mostly gave up on newsgroups for quite a while...Last time I checked here
>there was plenty of discussion going on relevant to the group name. Now it
>looks like about 90% spam.
>
> How sad.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 10:13 am
From: Seerialmom

On Aug 19, 1:45 pm, Wooly <nobody@nunya> wrote:
> I mostly gave up on newsgroups for quite a while...Last time I checked
> here there was plenty of discussion going on relevant to the group name.
> Now it looks like about 90% spam.
>
> How sad.

Today (and yesterday apparently) the stupid MI5 thing has overwhelmed
almost every newsgroup I checked today. But some are still trying to
keep it on-topic.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 12:47 pm
From: watcher@moog.netaxs.com

In article <1187625763.834827.324290@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>, rick++ wrote:
> The troll who thinks James Bond is chasing him doesnt post that often,
> but when he does its tens of thosuands of messages to all the
> newsgroups.
>

Yeah, but since he always puts "MI5" somwhere in the "From:" line, he's easy
to killfile. I've had him killfiled so long, I was surprised to hear he's
back spewing again.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save $40 by opening up a 12 volt battery.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86049dfcdfb28456?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 9:58 am
From: Roughrider50

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:34:37 -0700, useful_infos@yahoo.com wrote:

>See the video at http://Muvy.org
Wasn't this the same spammer pushing "open your car with a cell
phone"?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 10:12 am
From: George

Roughrider50 wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:34:37 -0700, useful_infos@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> See the video at http://spaMuvy.org
> Wasn't this the same spammer pushing "open your car with a cell
> phone"?

And numerous others...

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 10:52 am
From: "Bob's Backfire Burrito"

<useful_infos@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1187616877.553611.153060@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...

More USELESS info from this spamming shitstain

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: I am being ignored 17/4/97 (12383)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9369a70318343f86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 10:16 am
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Subject: I am being ignored
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.legal
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Summary:
Keywords:

Something mildly unusual is happening. Nobody has been getting at me for the
last couple of weeks. Best of all, about three weeks ago I bought a video
recorder to try to get some evidence from the News etc, and despite having
watched Martyn Lewis, Michael Buerk and the whole lot of them, not one of them
has said anything to me in the last three weeks. And I have been listening to
and recording Capital, with no ill effect. All in all, I am being
comprehensively ignored.

Of course, I should have video-taped the news programmes back in 1990/91/92
(and even 93) when it was still all going on. Anthony Johnsson (casually
name-drop to stick the knife in) will tell you how intelligent a person I am,
yet I didn't have the good sense to record the programmes at the time, and it's
a bit late now.

Today another avenue of exploration closed when my second summons against the
BBC was struck out (basically through lack of evidence), and an order was made
by the district judge saying that I could not sue John Birt again without the
express permission of the court. She explained that this was for my own good,
to save me the summons fees. Costs were not awarded though (the BBC didn't even
really seek costs), and I am free to sue anyone else I take a shine to.
..................................................................
It is not that you are being ignored.... it is just that as your mental
health improves, so your paranoia eases.

OR...

The dark forces are gathering strength for the final battle with you...

Seriously though, it's nice to see you back - cos as long as they are
persecuting you, I can relax knowing they haven't got time to bother me!

Harry
--
Harry Adams
harry@smcat.com
http://www.smcat.com
..................................................................
From: burridge@osiris.win-uk.net (Paul Burridge)

Great news! Keep taking the tablets.
..................................................................
(posted 11/apr/1997, re Neil Long at 8.35pm Capital Radio)

Subject: Re: I am being ignored
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.legal
Followup-To: uk.misc,uk.legal
References: <E8HKJw.LIK.0.bloor@torfree.net>
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:

Mike Corley (bu765@torfree.net) wrote:

[unreasonable optimism snipped]

Well, that didn't last very long, did it?

Capital Radio this evening approx 8.35pm, Neil Long's programme a few moments
after I switched to it (I am listening to it as I type this). The following
spouted from his mouth;

"want to see Jacko in town? what a gig it's going to be, that guy is amazing,
and PSYCHOTIC, but amazing on stage, 0171-4200958, on stage he's a MADMAN but
he's wonderful"

God, I am so tired of this. It's been going on for seven years. When's it going
to stop?

I have the above extract on tape. When I get around to it I will post it, and
the Hepworth snippet, as audio files on the website. Of course, all the
doubting Thomases and Smids can carry on doubting, because the mere fact that
moments after switching on the DJ starts talking about "psychotic", that's not
proof is it?

I wrote an aggrieved letter to Chris Tarrant at Capital and sent it off today,
copied to Richard Park, Group Director of Programmes. I suppose they'll just
lie as usual. Bastards, basically.
..................................................................
The solution is surely to not have a TV, video, radio or telephone in
the house, Mike. That way they can't be used to watch you.

Dave
--
dave@ llondel.demon.co.uk
Any advice above is worth what I paid for it.
..................................................................
Subject: Re: I am being ignored
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.legal
References: <E8HKJw.LIK.0.bloor@torfree.net> <E8HpM1.608.0.bloor@torfree.net> <860893$
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:

"Dave {Reply address in.sig}" <noone@llondel.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>The solution is surely to not have a TV, video, radio or telephone in
>the house, Mike. That way they can't be used to watch you.

No. I tried that strategy in 1990/91 when I sold my television and stopped
listening to the radio. It didn't work because they got at me through
co-workers and eventually the general public.

The solution is to gather evidence by recording everything, and then complain
or sue if possible. I wish I'd recorded it all five or six years ago, then I
might be more successful in a legal action now.
..................................................................
Did anyone else watch the X-Files on Sky last night (Sunday 13th April) and
recognise Mike's symptons in the chap with the tattoo? It was quite
interesting to see someone responding in precisely the same way, picking up
on individual words and phrases in ordinary sentences and applying parts to
themselves as though they were intended.

Not a pleasant ending though. You take care, Mike, and keep taking the
medication. uk.misc just wouldn't be the same without you now.

Claire
--
******************************************************************************
* Claire Speed [ENTX] * Network & Operations Unit, Manchester Computing *
* Dial-up, ISDN, TICTAC * C.Speed@mcc.ac.uk

http://www.mcc.ac.uk/Claire/

*
******************************************************************************
..................................................................
>moments after switching on the DJ starts talking about "psychotic", that's not
>proof is it?

No, it isn't, but you knew that anyway.

Mike, how is it that you think that this can't be a coincidence because
it happened 'moments' after you switched on the radio? Haven't you just
told us that you haven't heard a thing for two weeks? Going two weeks
watching TV & listening to the radio without a reference to 'mad', 'crazy'
or 'loony' is quite an acheivement, especially given the trashy radio you
seem to prefer.

I've just spent a lot of the weekend trying to keep a manic depressive
under control, so that she doesn't have to go back into hospital and
lose the last few months' memories to ECT. One thing I've noticed is
that manic depressives almost seek to foster their fantasies, they
enjoy the control and the high. You seem to be the same - you refuse
to answer the points put to you that explain away what you call persecution
totally - do you have the courage of your convictions to reply to this?
Or do you enjoy the attention your illness brings you?

--
Illtud Daniel idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk
-see Twin Town- -Buy Apollo 440-
..................................................................
Mike Corley wrote:

> Something mildly unusual is happening. Nobody has been getting at me for the
> last couple of weeks.

Do please tell the *truth*. It has been longer than *2* weeks as I'm sure
you have noticed, hasn't it ?

Well I claim responsibility for the absence of persecution. When I rang
John Major's personal private secretary, not the personal political one or
any of the others in the same office, and I said you would vote for the
Conservative Party at the General Election the secretary said Johnny would
be so happy and as a sign of gratitude he rang-up the Head of MI5 and told
them to save money for tax cuts by abandoning forthwith their campaign
against you. Consequently MI5 and MI6 have been able to redeploy urgently
needed resources (i.e. manpower and telecoms interceptions) against an
international band of (*****censored*****).

On behalf of the law-abiding and decent citizens in the British islands, I
would like to sincerely thank you for your invaluable contribution to
crime fighting by your instrumental achievement in releasing badly needed
and very scarce MI5 and MI6 resources.

Many thanks,

> Best of all, about three weeks ago I bought a video recorder to try to get some
> evidence from the News etc, and despite having watched Martyn Lewis, Michael
> Buerk and the whole lot of them, not one of them has said anything to me in the
> last three weeks. And I have been listening to and recording Capital, with no ill
> effect. All in all, I am being comprehensively ignored.

Please don't forget it is National Election time and the news broadcasts
at 21:00 on BBC1 are preoccupied with British politics.

> Of course, I should have video-taped the news programmes back in 1990/91/92
> (and even 93) when it was still all going on.

Any particular date in mind ? I have a few in the library. You can also
purchase copies from the BBC on 0181-743 8000 (central switchboard).

> Anthony Johnsson (casually name-drop to stick the knife in) will tell you how intelligent
> a person I am, yet I didn't have the good sense to record the programmes at the time,
> and it's a bit late now.

Perhaps it is for the best. Now that it is all over, you can return to
Canada. Did you manage to get your Canadian citizenship ? What did your
contracts at MI5 say about you becoming Canadian ? You never did mention
the name of your MI5 liaison officer nor of any of the others.

> Today another avenue of exploration closed when my second summons against the
> BBC was struck out (basically through lack of evidence), and an order was made
> by the district judge saying that I could not sue John Birt again without the
> express permission of the court. She explained that this was for my own good,
> to save me the summons fees. Costs were not awarded though (the BBC didn't even
> really seek costs), and I am free to sue anyone else I take a shine to.

That's true. But as it is now all over there is no need to worry about
the past. MI5 said your file has been removed from the Registry and put
in a burn-bag so there is nothing left for anyone ever to find.

By the way, what was the URL of your famous Corley web site ?
..................................................................
Subject: Re: I am being ignored
Newsgroups: uk.misc,uk.legal
Followup-To: uk.misc,uk.legal
References: <E8HKJw.LIK.0.bloor@torfree.net> <E8HpM1.608.0.bloor@torfree.net> <5it60e$
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:

Illtud Daniel (idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk) wrote:
: Iain L M Hotchkies <iain@hotch.demon.co.uk.spam-free.zone> wrote:
: >Illtud Daniel typed:
: >
: >> You seem to be the same - you refuse
: >> to answer the points put to you that explain away what you call persecution
: >> totally - do you have the courage of your convictions to reply to this?
: >> Or do you enjoy the attention your illness brings you?

I have to admit that it is actually mildly amusing to have newsreaders watching
you, although it is tiresome after a bit. I am currently in an interesting
situation, because after my lawsuits against them I think the BBC newscasters
have stopped watching me entirely; I also think that ITN, in particular John
Suchet, *are* still watching but they're being subtle about it (his blink
pattern followed mine).

Being called nasty words is quite horrible though, and seems gratuitous; what
do they gain by it, except to exercise their sadism?

: >I think we all ought to remember that schizophrenia is a
: >psychosis, and as such, unless you are American and believe
: >that *anything* can be dealt with through counselling and/or
: >psychotherapy, will not respond to this type of treatment.

: Tell me about it. My friend is now unhappily resident in Warneford
: mental health unit, or whatever they call psychiatric hospitals nowardays.

I've never been in a hospital as an in-patient, ever. I think I've been very
lucky in that regard.

: Having said that, one should seek to disabuse even psychotics of their
: delusions.

The medicines haven't made any difference to my ideas. They obviously make a
difference in the emotional impact and reaction.
..................................................................
>I've never been in a hospital as an in-patient, ever. I think I've been very
>lucky in that regard.

You have. They're not pleasant atmospheres, especially the secure wings,
which have more in common with prisons ('airlock' doors, list of 'banned'
articles, continuous observation). They have to be that way, unfortunately.

--
Illtud Daniel idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk
-see Twin Town- -Buy Apollo 440-
..................................................................

12383

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Peak Practice 26/4/97 (13606)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d9e5ce08179aa7da?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 10:56 am
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Subject: "Peak Practice" 1/4/97 wanted
Newsgroups: uk.misc,rec.arts.tv.uk.misc
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Summary:
Keywords:

I am looking for a recording of "Peak Practice" from yesterday 1.April on VHS
tape. Willing to pay a reasonable sum for a recording.
.................................................................
Mike Corley <bu765@torfree.net> wrote:

>I am looking for a recording of "Peak Practice" from yesterday 1.April on VHS
>tape. Willing to pay a reasonable sum for a recording.

Uh-oh. Peak Practice slagging you off as well now, eh Mike?

--
Illtud Daniel idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk
-see Twin Town- -Buy Apollo 440-
.................................................................
Subject: Re: "Peak Practice" 1/4/97 wanted
Newsgroups: uk.misc,rec.arts.tv.uk.misc
Followup-To: uk.misc,rec.arts.tv.uk.misc
References: <E80u0B.8qD.0.bloor@torfree.net> <5i0onj$c9n@news.ox.ac.uk>
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution:

>Uh-oh. Peak Practice slagging you off as well now, eh Mike?

You better believe it. Tuesday's episode had one of its characters being
labelled as a "lunatic" with "something wrong with them". I changed channels
rapidly at this point, but in retrospect perhaps I should have carried on
watching and taped the program.

A few days ago I bought a video recorder (about time too) for evidence
gathering purposes. But strangely the TV news (both BBC and ITN) haven't
uttered a sound over the last few days. Almost as if they know they're being
taped...
.................................................................
Mike Corley <bu765@torfree.net> wrote:
>>Uh-oh. Peak Practice slagging you off as well now, eh Mike?
>
>You better believe it. Tuesday's episode had one of its characters being
>labelled as a "lunatic" with "something wrong with them".

And?

There are many characters in TV programmes who _are_ lunatics with
'something wrong with them'. Why do you think this alludes to you?

In the eponymous book, Cervantes' Don Quixote is described as 'crazy'
'mad' and 'lunatic'. Do you think this is a reference to yourself,
albeit written by a time-travelling 17th century Spaniard?

If you accept that the character of Don Quixote can be described thus
without it being a reference to you, what problem do you have with
Peak Practice? Or do you enjoy tilting at your own little windmills?

A friend's lodger has turned out to be paranoid schizophrenic. Her
obsessions are strikingly similar to yours, she is convinced that she
is being bugged, and that students at her college are making fun of
her for being foreign. She has been looking for the services of a
private detective. Maybe Oxford has this unfortunate effect on foreigners?

I must say that I'm surviving rather well, or that's what the man
under the stairs told me yesterday.

--
Illtud Daniel idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk
-see Twin Town- -Buy Apollo 440-
.................................................................
So Mike, you are a woman, married to a doctor,have two children, speak
spanish, and living in the Peak District. Is that a fair description of
you?

BAZZA
.................................................................

13606

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 11:04 am
From: "lobatak@gmail.com"

Just discovered this and thought I'd share!

www.kudzu.com, click on
deals section. Cool!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 11:51 am
From: "Bob's Backfire Burrito"

<lobatak@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1187633067.540823.184340@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Just discovered this and thought I'd share!

www.kudzu.com, click on
> deals section. Cool!
>

Just "Discovered this".......yeah right..you FOUND this site on the web and
thought you MUST post it on Usenet for the good of human kind???

Good thing we are NOT as stupid as you think. Wake up shithead, try being
HONEST and tell us you just started up a new web based business
and you would like people to try it out.
But *NO*.....you play this stupid game ass-breath....go away.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Continuing Silence 9/5/97 (14829)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1a558083a18441fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 11:18 am
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Subject: The Continuing Silence
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Summary:
Keywords:

The silence continues. I am enjoying listening to Radio 4 without any ill
effects whatsoever. Admittedly I am recording every moment, but still. Even
better, I have fished out a recording from ITN last year which at the time I
was convinced had been about me, and on re-seeing it I am now convinced it is
not about me at all.

But that is not to disclaim all the many "live incidents" that have happened.
Everything written on my website is true. For the newcomers, its URL (as seen
in the Observer and Private Eye) is

[snip]
.......................................................................
Mike Corley wrote:
>
> The silence continues. I am enjoying listening to Radio 4 without any ill
> effects whatsoever.

Already the New Labour govt improves the quality of life of the
populace!

--
To reply by email you must delete the trailing x from the To: field
Why not drop by my web page sometime?

http://www.man.ac.uk/~zlsiida
Manchester's cheapest poker game still needs more players - drop me
a line if interested, or if you know another game that I might like.
.......................................................................
From: David Roberts <oss108@sos.bangor.ac.yuk>

Mike, you're a ray of sunshine on a cold and miserable day.
Long may the silence continue.

David
--
***************================****************
Right that's enough junk mail.
If you really want to e-mail me,
remove the y from my address
.......................................................................
>better, I have fished out a recording from ITN last year which at the time I
>was convinced had been about me, and on re-seeing it I am now convinced it is
>not about me at all.

You've cheered me up with this news, Mike. Seriously. The last sentence
suggests that your health is improving, and you are beginning to become
pragmatic, in some way...

Take a deep breath, and look to the future. I wish you well.

Smid
.......................................................................

14829

--
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Victor Lewis-Smith 9/5/97 (16052)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c617892f3fddf351?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 11:41 am
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Victor Lewis-Smith has broken the silence in his TV review column "Goon and
best forgotten" in the Evening Standard (on Thursday 8/May). He said, "If I
sound paranoid, that's probably because I once worked there. Eventually, I had
to leave because they were all trying to kill me but, for sheer pathological
hatred of the Corporation, I couldn't hold a candle to Spike Milligan".

I take this to be about me, because recently I wrote to both the BBC and
Capital Radio, saying "I believe the current purpose of the harassment is to
force me to kill myself to prevent the harassers, yourselves included, from
being brought to justice, and last year there were several incidents of people
shouting 'suicide' at me, which would appear to corroborate that view." I think
VLS's words about the BBC "all trying to kill me" shows he has seen or heard of
what I sent to the BBC or Capital.

Nasty eh? I believe that VLS or his mates read this newsgroup. I wonder how he
would explain his article?
.........................................................................
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 23:11:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: Webmaster for Victor <vls@bbcradio.demon.co.uk>
To: Mike Corley <bu765@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: paranoia

Dear Mike,

Victor's not writing about you.

Yours,

John Hayward-Warburton
Victor's Webmaster
.........................................................................
For some reason, I don't quite believe you. It's just too close a match.
.........................................................................
In article <E9xG0x.Gtr.0.bloor@torfree.net>,
Mike Corley <bu765@torfree.net> wrote:
>Victor Lewis-Smith has broken the silence in his TV review column "Goon and
>best forgotten" in the Evening Standard (on Thursday 8/May). He said, "If I
>sound paranoid, that's probably because I once worked there. Eventually, I had
>to leave because they were all trying to kill me but, for sheer pathological
>hatred of the Corporation, I couldn't hold a candle to Spike Milligan".

Erm, Mike, I'm a bit of a fan of Victor Lewis-Smith, ever since his days
of "BuyGones". I must admit, he often likes to play the flawed lunatic
evil nasty person. He's been doing it for years, with prank calls, far
before your illness. Its his act. He wouldn't be VLS without it.

He doesn't like the "Goons" either. It isn't about you.

>I take this to be about me, because recently I wrote to both the BBC and
>Capital Radio, saying "I believe the current purpose of the harassment is to
>force me to kill myself to prevent the harassers, yourselves included, from
>being brought to justice, and last year there were several incidents of people
>shouting 'suicide' at me, which would appear to corroborate that view." I think
>VLS's words about the BBC "all trying to kill me" shows he has seen or heard of
>what I sent to the BBC or Capital.

I don't think Victor Lewis-Smith has worked for the BBC (or Capital) for
several years (1994 was the last time...), so the connection, is paranoia
here.

Personally, I believe VLS as a person of reasonable integrity, who wouldn't
give a fuck about you...

>Nasty eh? I believe that VLS or his mates read this newsgroup. I wonder how he
>would explain his article?

Keep up the medication, not as many people read this newsgroup as you think,
even though you are now incorporating that into your illness.

Victor? Are you there?

Smid
.........................................................................

16052

--
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: David Hepworth (2) 16/5/97 (17275)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/260617520e37a379?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 12:06 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Subject: David Hepworth (GLR) is taking the piss
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Summary:
Keywords:

>Last night (21/Feb/97), I was listening to BBC GLR. You have to understand that
>I was listening by stealth. Back in 1990 I used to have Capital blaring out of

Not much changes. Today I was listening again to David Hepworth's show on GLR,
having more or less waded in on it by accident. Here is the exchange;

David: "we have executive drivetime, we have Brian in charge of the prize
cupboard. Brian it's not a bad prize cupboard this week is it?"

Brian: "no David it's an absolute (EMPHASIS) embarrassment (END-EMPHASIS) of
prizes this evening" (laughter)

David: "what have we got?"

Brian: "well in my left hand alone we've got that .... Gary Clale, I don't know
if you remember him obviously still alive and kicking...."

David: "Rock and roll spelling test is your first opportunity to take advantage
of this embarrassment of prizes"

What do I read into this exchange? The laughter after the word "embarrassment"
shows they're aware of the last complaint I made on usenet (copied by
snail-mail to them). The "left hand" business is I think a coded way of calling
me a w***er (the term would be better applied to Brian and David).

I have a tape of this exchange, and will eventually get around to posting it on
the website.
........................................................................
Subject: Re: David Hepworth (GLR) is taking the piss
Newsgroups: uk.misc
References: <E9xMvw.4H2.0.bloor@torfree.net>
Organization: Toronto Free-Net
Distribution: uk

I don't understand. Why has nobody replied to this post? You keep on asking for
evidence, then I present you with something that looks very much like evidence,
and everybody just ignores it. OK I haven't posted the actual sound extract,
and it still isn't proof.

Perhaps everybody just finds it all too boring and dull. Should I start
spamming again from one of those nice anonymous remailers to wake everyone up?
Now there's a thought.
........................................................................
Mike Corley <bu765@torfree.net> wrote:
>I don't understand. Why has nobody replied to this post?

Cos you don't reply to our points - you're ignoring us, why shouldn't
we ignore you?

>You keep on asking for evidence, then I present you with something
>that looks very much like evidence,

No you don't, you post something which could _never_, _ever_ be construed
as referring to yourself. Can't you see it? No, of course you can't,
you've an illness.

>Perhaps everybody just finds it all too boring and dull. Should I start
>spamming again from one of those nice anonymous remailers to wake everyone up?
>Now there's a thought.

And I see you've started. Give it a rest, Mike, unless you're prepared to
enter into proper discussion.

--
Illtud Daniel idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk
-see Twin Town- -Buy Apollo 440-
........................................................................
>Mike Corley <bu765@torfree.net> wrote:
>>I don't understand. Why has nobody replied to this post?

Never read it. Repost?

Smid
........................................................................
In article <5lhg3i$ete@news.ox.ac.uk>,
Illtud Daniel <idaniel@jesus.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>[reposted]
>
>>Brian: "no David it's an absolute (EMPHASIS) embarrassment (END-EMPHASIS) of
>>prizes this evening" (laughter)

Uh-Uh. He's on for a bad attack, if he's singling out words which are
apparently attacking him. He previously restricted himself to just
dialog about the mentally ill.

TAKE YOUR MEDICATION MIKE.

Smid
........................................................................

17275

--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Overview (153)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/752a05d34b196897?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 12:42 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Overview

What all these snatches of video and audio, and newspaper articles, have in common is that none of them provide conclusive or very convincing
evidence of their being directed against me, or forming part of a campaign against me. Other people with my illness doubtless could produce similar
non-proof if they were minded to do so.

Good, now we've got the disclaimer out of the way, we can describe precisely what it is that is on display in this part of the site. In the video
section, we have Quicktime (MPEG-4) clips of Jon Snow of ITN in action, also interviews with Ken Clarke and John Major of the ousted Tory regime. These are
embedded in the page using QuickTime. While each audio/video clip is coded to automatically download the QuickTime player, you may find it helpful to
download QuickTime from Apple's website before you start viewing the media files.

Note that each item is awarded a rating of the confidence I feel that it is directed at me, expressed as a percentage. Items with 50% or
more are probably about me; 100% indicates a "dead cert".

In audio we have MP3 files of harassment at work in Canada in late 1996, also GLR's David Hepworth not even trying to pretend that he isn't getting
at me, and a snippet of Capital. There is also an album track which I have taken as being about me. The newspapers section contains articles by Bernard
Levin on his encounter with a madman who "bursts into tears, and swears it is all
true - and it is". Also a Private Eye cover, and snippet from Victor Lewis-Smith.

I have added several recordings of abuse "in public". By Sept/1998 I had seven minidiscs of such recordings, unfortunately containing mostly very
nasty sexual slanders which I will not be publishing on this website. The recordings were made on a Sony Minidisc Walkman MZ-R30, which I purchased
in Canada in July/1997, with ECM-T140 microphone. After both the MZ-R30 and the microphone reached the end of their lives, in June/2001 I purchased as
replacement my current recording gear, an MZ-R900 walkman with ECM-T145 microphone.

Share and Enjoy! I hope you enjoy partaking in my delusions which have been recorded with high fidelity digital equipment and presented for your
listening pleasure.

153

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TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Ken Clarke (1), April 1997 (1376)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/190bf3b0093981af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 12:58 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Ken Clarke (1), April 1997

Certainty level: 30%

The first of two video segments from the same program, this shows
Jon Snow interviewing Ken Clarke in April 1997, during the general
election campaign. The following exchange is heard;

Jon Snow: "You say we are booming in your posters, the bust's around the corner"

Ken Clarke: "You took that from three years ago, when I was being
advised to do all kinds of mad things to stimulate the economy,
and being told that I had to take desperate measures to get it going"

At this time I was watching television almost continuously at home,
with a video recorder whirring away, trying to obtain from the
newscasters a reaction which would give them away. I think this is an
instance where it happened. Ken Clarke first darts a glance straight at
the video camera (and perhaps at a monitor next to it showing my living
room), then comes out with "all kinds of mad things", while engaging in a
facial display involving raising of eyebrows and lowering of eyelids.
To me at the time, and also now, it looked as if he was selecting a
context into which he could drop the word "mad" as a directed insult against me.

1376

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TOPIC: Right wing's sacred cow at work again Re: Psychological Warfare
Techniques Used on Your Doctor
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f35fb63a1849c153?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 12:58 pm
From: Citizen Jimserac

On Aug 20, 8:14 am, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> > Pharmaceutical sales reps are trained in tactics that are on par with some
> > of the most potent brainwashing techniques used throughout the world,
> > according to an in-depth report co-written by former Eli Lilly drug rep
> > Shahram Ahari, and Adriane Fugh-Berman, associate professor of physiology
> > and biophysics at Georgetown University Medical Center in Washington, D.C..
>
> > Pharmaceutical companies spend more than $15 billion each year promoting
> > prescription drugs in the United States.
>
> > These campaigns are designed to effectively alter prescribing behavior, to
> > sell more of the high-profit drugs (as opposed to the most effective, and
> > least dangerous).
>
> > The fact that sales reps for drug companies serve no useful function other
> > than driving up sales for their blockbuster drugs -- at your expense
>
> But... This cant be! We have the bestest healthcare in the world. At
> least that is what the Republican party line says.

EVERYBODY IS ONTO THIS CHARADE BY NOW. The repercussions have only
just started from Moore's epochal and timely documentary. I've
already seen one ad from the "Ad Council" in which people are laughing
and singing in a hospital waiting room while the announcer extols the
virtues of our wonderful health care system.

EVEN BETTER, as the winds of reform sweep away a health system run by
and for uncaring profiteers, a serious public view is now falling on
the dominant medical system in this country, its dangerous nostrums
and "remedies" dignified with the name "pharmaceuticals", its primary
method of "curing" people by REMOVING things via surgery and its
curious over reliance on MACHINES for diagnoses.

Citizen Jimserac
L'Etat? C' Est MOI!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Ken Clarke (2), April 1997 (2599)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d222b2b64945fbc7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:14 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Ken Clarke (2), April 1997

Certainty level: 30%

The second of two video segments from the same programme, this shows
Ken Clarke during the election campaign. He makes the following statement;

"we have a party, and we have a Cabinet which has produced a manifesto
consistent with our policy of the last five years;
people are challenging us on the basis there's been some monstrous
conspiracy between all the politicians to guide us we know not where,
we know where we're going, we wish to be a leading influence in the European Union"

It should be fairly obvious what I read into in the above sentences.
The "monstrous conspiracy between all the politicians" could of course
apply to the public perception of closer European integration, but
I took it as referring to the conspiracy of politicians and
media people against me. Again, facial expression comes into it; as Clarke
speaks of the "monstrous conspiracy" his eyebrows twitch and it is clear
that something or somebody is being made fun of.

2599

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TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Dimbleby / John Major, April 1997 (3822)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/91478dbe46f71171?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:31 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Dimbleby / John Major, April 1997

Certainty level: 90%

Dimbleby interviews John Major during the election campaign. Here is
the exchange, regarding Neil Hamilton, the "sleazy" Tory candidate;

Dimbleby: "It's a direct quotation from what he said to Sir Gordon Downey
and what he said to his local newspaper, the Knutsford Guardian".
Major: "Well, heaven forfend that I should doubt what the Knutsford
Guardian actually said"
Dimbleby: "Well I should hope so"
Major: "Absolutely, it would be quite unforgivable to doubt the
Knutsford Guardian"

What I find in this segment is an assonance between "Knutsford" and "Nut"
or "Nuts". I think Dimbleby deliberately invents the play on words,
and says it clearly enough for Major to pick it up and repeat it.
You can gauge Dimbleby's intent from his facial expression of false
honesty when he uses the words "Knutsford Guardian"; and Major's reaction
follows from his recognition of Dimbleby's intent; Major smiles and says
it would be "unforgivable to doubt the Knutsford Guardian".
These are much clearer on the original video than on this Quicktime clip.

3822

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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:32 pm
From: Dennis

On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:09:20 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
wrote:

>It'd be interesting to hear other stories about excellent customer service
>from large national companies. Unfortunately, I don't have any of my own
>right at the moment.

I am finally getting around to finishing the bathroom in our basement.
When we built our house, I bought an extra matching tub/shower faucet
for the to-be-finished-later basement bath. Nine+ years later (blush)
I installed the faucet and discovered that a part was missing (the
escutcheon -- the dish-shaped trim part that goes over the hole in the
shower wall for the faucet, from which the handle protrudes). Quite
honestly, I don't know whether it was missing from the beginning or if
it got lost somewhere along the way.

I looked around for a replacement at the local home improvement stores
and online to no avail. Finally, I called the customer support number
listed on the installation instructions. I explained the situation to
the nice lady on the phone, adding that I expected to pay for the
replacement part. She said no problem, she would have one mailed to
me, no charge. I was pleasantly surprised not only that they had a
trim part for a 10 year old faucet, but that they would send it to me
for free.

The faucet brand is American Standard.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:48 pm
From: Ward Abbott

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:58:17 -0700, Sam <yapyap_di@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Why should I pay for Paris Hilton's designer wardrobe when I shop the
>clearance rack?!

Do you really believe that if you check into a Hilton property....they
send Parrasite Hilton a check? Sorry....but she is living off
trusts....and pays no INCOME TAX...She doesn't make any income from a
Hilton Trust.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 3:10 pm
From: clams casino

Ward Abbott wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:58:17 -0700, Sam <yapyap_di@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Why should I pay for Paris Hilton's designer wardrobe when I shop the
>>clearance rack?!
>>
>>
>
>Do you really believe that if you check into a Hilton property....they
>send Parrasite Hilton a check? Sorry....but she is living off
>trusts....and pays no INCOME TAX...She doesn't make any income from a
>Hilton Trust.
>
>
>
>
So her trust has no Hilton stock?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Channel Four TV News - 12/Feb/1999 (5045)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b6d19d8f71b7c177?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:50 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Channel Four TV News - 12/Feb/1999

Certainty level: 100%

I am positively, utterly, completely sure this item is about me. It's a bit subtle so the objective reader might not understand my certainty. Here is
what happened. I was watching Channel Four News with Jon Snow, on the day Clinton "got off" (as it were) in the Monica-gate scandal. Snow said;

"[and we're anticipating that the President himself will make his] first
comments after the trial in which he has now been cleared at around half-
past seven. So we'll have more on the historic judgment, we'll also be
considering [starts smiling] the winners and losers in this whole sorry
saga. Now further doubts have been...."

When Snow said "half-past seven", I looked at the clock on the mantelpiece above the TV. Snow saw my glance, and in reaction to my glance at the clock,
smiled. I think he was smiling at what he perceived as my self-importance.

Usually when newscasters or radio presenters laugh at me, there is an excuse for their laughter; usually they manage to find some reason for my
being "funny"; their amusement is blamed on me; it is my "fault" they are laughing. And so it was with this instance; Jon Snow thought it was funny
that I should be so interested in seeing Clinton, and his half-smile while reading the words "winners and losers" expresses that.

I wrote to Snow at ITN shortly after this broadcast to ask him about his behaviour; of course, he didn't reply.

5045

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TOPIC: frugal lifestyle
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e7cedf79ca914f7a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 1:53 pm
From: Ward Abbott

On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 07:22:48 -0700, choose.style@gmail.com wrote:

>can some1 reffer me

This site would provide you with valuable information that you are
lacking.

www.dictionary.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MI5 Persecution: Chris Tarrant - 10/March/1999 (6268)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30c61c9d9b690539?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2007 2:06 pm
From: MI5Victim@mi5.gov.uk

Chris Tarrant - 10/March/1999

Certainty level: 25%

This one might be aimed at me, or it might be tinged with a whiff of intent, although I only give one chance in four for Tarrant's thoughts being aimed
at me when he said this. During his "Who wants to be a Millionaire" TV show in March 1999, he said;

if you're watching the show jumping up and down screaming at the telly,
remember you could be here. You can either seek professional help or call us...

The background is as follows. In early March I'd sent a quantity of emails to Capital FM, the London radio station where Mr Tarrant has his breakfast
show. They were addressed to the email account which Mr Tarrant used to read emails posted on Capital's website. Capital objected to the quantity
of emails - in fact, they contacted the Metropolitan Police's Computer Crime unit, who, in turn, "felt my collar" by giving me a verbal warning
over the phone to cease this behaviour.

The emails contained the words which I had heard Mr Tarrant speak in early 1994, namely;

"You know this bloke? He says we're trying to kill him.
We should be done for attempted manslaughter".

At the time of writing (May 1999), the Police have not told me what aspect of the emails was "illegal", nor despite my repeated urging have they
questioned Mr Tarrant about his remarks from 1994.

Regarding the clip from Tarrant's show above. The Police spoke to me on the afternoon of Wednesday 10 March 1999. Tarrant's live show went out
that same evening. The Police have told me that after speaking to me they told Capital FM that they'd spoken to me regarding the emails. So Tarrant
would have known by the time of the show who'd sent the emails and why.... and it's quite possible that his remarks about "seeking professional help"
were aimed at me personally following my attempts to persuade him to own up to his 1994 remarks.

6268

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Monday, August 20, 2007

25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

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