Frugal Living: Nov 9, 2009

Monday, November 9, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Definitions of Frugality
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4db20ff0fb8d6fd6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 1:46 pm
From: Vandy Terre

On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 20:18:14 -0500, Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 10:26:29 -0500, Vandy Terre
><vandy@tanglewood-destiny.com> wrote:
>
>> Some would say I would earn more if I
>>worked outside the home. I say not. If you turn the time I spend repairing
>>clothing, harvesting gardens, collecting eggs into dollars not spent at some
>>shop, I am earning better than I could working somewhere else. Plus, I am here
>>for the children when they return from school or if they have need of a parent
>>during the day.
>
>That is true. One parent should stay home with the children, and it
>usually is more frugal than if both parents worked. I could never
>understand the obsession in America with the Two-Family income. Just
>more money for the tax man to take from. In fact, a family would pay
>less income tax if only one partner worked, or one partner made MUCH
>less than the other one. If both partners made about the same income,
>then the tax rate would be much higher (this I learned from a tax
>class I took in law school - the only thing I really retained from
>that class).

I work at home. My 'income' is not in money made, but in money saved. I have
added up the expenses of me working outside the home. Not such a big deal now
that the youngest children are teenagers, but I still prefer to be here when
they come home.

How do I save money for the family? In summer there are gardens that help feed
the family. Eggs from the chickens in season. Milk from the goats in season.
I make clothing for the family. I also make clothing, tents, tablecloths,
aprons, simple jewelry, simple leather work, candles, ornaments to sell. I mend
existing clothing, backpacks, anything made from cloth that will fit under the
sewing machine.

>Plus, the savings on gas and car usage (you might even be able to have
>ONE CAR!). In addition, isn't time with your children priceless? Two
>parents who work is not a frugal situation since all the extra money
>that is made is spent on childcare, babysitting, fast food, gas, car
>repairs, taxes, etc. People never think about that. I believe most
>people want to work to get away from their kids, which is strange,
>because why have kids in the first place if they're raised by
>strangers?

I do have a vehicle for my use. There is one motor vehicle per licensed driver
in this family. Why? Because we live too far from any taxi service, bus line
or railroad. Too far to walk for anything that can not be grown or made here at
the farm.

I have raised my own children, not like some authorities would like. I honestly
believe a child should know how to cook, clean, read as young as possible. That
child should also have a working knowledge basic first aid, poisonous snake/
spider identification, how to start and maintain a fire for heat and/ or
cooking, eatable wild plants. Calling 911 is great when the telephone is
working. During a bad storm that may not be happening.

>>I see too many people playing the 'keep up with the Jones' game and needing to
>>work two jobs per adult to manage it. Where is the time to enjoy the extras
>>purchased with that income if you are working two jobs? Does the family really
>>_need_ that boat or four wheeler or expensive car?
>
>No, the excuse now is HEALTH CARE! Imagine if America had socialized
>medicine, maybe, just maybe one parent might stay home to raise the
>kids. But probably not, Americans are selfish.

Health care should be better education on self maintenance. The USA has become
dependent on licensed health care practitioners. I believe in licensed
practitioners. I more strongly believe in learning how to take care of yourself
to avoid illness and injury. I was considered wrong because I taught my
children to work in at least pairs and to use proper protective gear. The other
choice was to let them run wild. I preferred to teach them how to do useful
jobs and chores. Entertainment was reading a book, identifying trees/ wild
flowers/ insects/ wildlife, building a play area and playing in it.

I once read a science fiction novel where the main character had been frozen for
decades and then defrosted. This character was having trouble finding a job to
meet the expenses of 'modern' living, then he found the under-city where life
style was much like now. In the under-city this character was able to live
comfortably on the income he could easily earn, he just had to give up the
fancier toys of the 'modern' society. We have modern toys like computers,
digital cameras, ipods. We do not have a four-wheeler, a boat, a motor vehicle
less than 6 years of age, a camper, a cabin at the lake or the like.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 1:55 pm
From: Vandy Terre

On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 20:31:59 -0500, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote:

>If you REALLY want to be frugal you don't have kids in the first place. You
>are neither frugal nor green if you breed.

If I don't have 'kids', I don't have milk. LOL I keep milk goats.

I believe you mean 'children'. If you do not wish to have children that is your
right. Any one that does have children needs to be responsible for those
children.

What is the point in life at all if no one has any children? Without children
there is not much future. The species of humans would disappear if no one had
children. No one should have children just to qualify for some government
benefit. I wish parenting could be limited to only those who truly wish to have
children because they enjoy teaching and raising those children.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 2:08 pm
From: "h"

"Vandy Terre" <vandy@tanglewood-destiny.com> wrote in message
news:8h3hf51c2rglphhiug1i9jfqp6lli5o388@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Nov 2009 20:31:59 -0500, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote:

> The species of humans would disappear if no one had
> children.

And that would be bad, why?

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 2:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

h wrote
> Vandy Terre <vandy@tanglewood-destiny.com> wrote
>> h <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote

>> The species of humans would disappear if no one had children.

> And that would be bad, why?

There'd be no one to feed the cats and dogs, silly.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 4:45 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <7a6gf5pi473mfh8n47sftvtchbh5du30hr@4ax.com>,
Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net> wrote:
[ ... ]

>Socialize the medicine and you no longer pay the 1000 month premiums.
>Imagine! if you save a 1000 per month, one spouse could EASILY stay
>home.

>But...but...but the taxes! I will be taxed to death. Hogwash. No you
>won't. [ ... ]

To quote you, show references (not just Obama/Pelosi press releases).

Money to pay for all that health care has to come from somewhere, and
the only source of money the government has is taxpayers. That's also
assuming there are any doctors left to provide the care.

The quickest way to reduce the cost of health care is tort reform--
which does not appear in the House-passed monstrosity based on all
reports.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"Where large, expensive pieces of exotic woods are converted to valueless,
hard to dispose of sawdust, chips and scraps." Charlie B.s' definition of
woodworking.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 4:50 pm
From: Les Cargill

Vandy Terre wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:19:12 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net> wrote:
>
<snip>
> Okay, 16 oz to the pound. You are paying $3 for 7oz, which is over $6/ pound.
> How much of that packaged luncheon meat is water/ fat? I usually spend less
> than $2/ lb for turkey or ham that I will cook myself. Your two packages of
> luncheon meat cost about an hour labor at minimum wage and yields how many
> meals? For money spent I am getting more meals my way. This lets me feed four
> adults and two teenagers for about $400/ month by the time you add in fruits/
> vegetables/ bread.
>

Ah. There's the magic - four teenagers. Yes, my wife and I used to
do similar things when we had kids at home.

> It is your choice. It is your money. I am just showing part of my method of
> saving a little money and improving our lives.
>

I am not sure I could consume an entire turkey by myself in a year. I'm
in TDY status right now.

--
Les Cargill

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 5:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Gary Heston wrote
> Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net> wrote

>> Socialize the medicine and you no longer pay the 1000 month premiums.
>> Imagine! if you save a 1000 per month, one spouse could EASILY stay home.

>> But...but...but the taxes! I will be taxed to death. Hogwash. No you won't. [ ... ]

> To quote you, show references (not just Obama/Pelosi press releases).
http://www.mn2020.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7BCF5AFEB9-A475-46A1-B7D0-03101DFB87D5%7D

> Money to pay for all that health care has to come from somewhere,

Yes.

> and the only source of money the government has is taxpayers.

Wrong. It can also come from what is currently being pissed
against the wall on all the paper shuffling monkeys in the
insurance empires and the advertising they do, etc etc etc.

THATS the reason the US spends TWICE the percentage of GDP
that every other modern first world country does on health care.

> That's also assuming there are any doctors left to provide the care.

There always are, every time any country has got a
clue and given up on having just an insurance system.

> The quickest way to reduce the cost of health care is tort reform--

Wrong, thats a trivial part of total health care costs.

> which does not appear in the House-passed monstrosity based on all reports.

Because its a trivial part of total health care costs.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 6:20 pm
From: Marsha

Les Cargill wrote:
> Vandy Terre wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:19:12 -0500, Les Cargill
>> meals? For money spent I am getting more meals my way. This lets me
>> feed four
>> adults and two teenagers for about $400/ month by the time you add in
>> fruits/
>> vegetables/ bread.
>>
>
> Ah. There's the magic - four teenagers. Yes, my wife and I used to
> do similar things when we had kids at home.
>
>> It is your choice. It is your money. I am just showing part of my
>> method of
>> saving a little money and improving our lives.
>>
>
> I am not sure I could consume an entire turkey by myself in a year. I'm
> in TDY status right now.
>
> --
> Les Cargill

Huh? I think she said four ADULTS and two TEENAGERS.

Marsha

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 6:25 pm
From: Marsha

Gary Heston wrote:
> In article <7a6gf5pi473mfh8n47sftvtchbh5du30hr@4ax.com>,
> Napoleon <anarch@666yes.net> wrote:
> [ ... ]
>
>> Socialize the medicine and you no longer pay the 1000 month premiums.
>> Imagine! if you save a 1000 per month, one spouse could EASILY stay
>> home.
>
>> But...but...but the taxes! I will be taxed to death. Hogwash. No you
>> won't. [ ... ]
>
> To quote you, show references (not just Obama/Pelosi press releases).
>
> Money to pay for all that health care has to come from somewhere, and
> the only source of money the government has is taxpayers. That's also
> assuming there are any doctors left to provide the care.
>
> The quickest way to reduce the cost of health care is tort reform--
> which does not appear in the House-passed monstrosity based on all
> reports.
>
>
> Gary
>

I think I love you :-) No where in the health bill is tort reform
addressed, which is an absolute necessity. Also, I don't see personal
responsibility addressed. If some drug abuser or smoker or
non-compliant with medication person who decides not to follow
instructions, keeps coming to the ER for chest pain, etc., I don't want
to keep paying for that idiot's repeated stupidity.

Marsha

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 8:28 pm
From: Les Cargill

Marsha wrote:
> Les Cargill wrote:
>> Vandy Terre wrote:
>>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:19:12 -0500, Les Cargill meals? For money
>>> spent I am getting more meals my way. This lets me feed four
>>> adults and two teenagers for about $400/ month by the time you add in
>>> fruits/
>>> vegetables/ bread.
>>>
>>
>> Ah. There's the magic - four teenagers. Yes, my wife and I used to
>> do similar things when we had kids at home.
>>
>>> It is your choice. It is your money. I am just showing part of my
>>> method of
>>> saving a little money and improving our lives.
>>>
>>
>> I am not sure I could consume an entire turkey by myself in a year. I'm
>> in TDY status right now.
>>
>> --
>> Les Cargill
>
> Huh? I think she said four ADULTS and two TEENAGERS.
>
> Marsha

Yes, he did. Point stands.

--
Les Cargill

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 9:02 pm
From: Balvenieman

gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston) wrote:

>The quickest way to reduce the cost of health care is tort reform--
Now, you know that isn't going to happen as long as the lawyers
keep paying for the demogocrats' elections for them and as long as the
demogocrats keep sucking up to the lawyers to get their elections paid
for. You just like seeing the free lunch potatoheads get their panties
all bunched up, don't you?
--
the Balvenieman
Running on single malt in U.S.A.
USDA zone 9b

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No Swine Flu Sick Leave For Wal-Mart Slaves! No SURPRISE, Either!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f7324c46ba4e89fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 1:57 pm
From: Jennifer Fitzgerald

We at Wal-Mart are in reality providing our employees the opportunity
to work overtime. More hours. And we don't subscribe to all the
Swine Flu propaganda. It's all a fabrication to put money in the
pockets of Big Pharma."

-- Jennifer Fitzgerald

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In what way are you LEAST frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/18003f4ff7c65165?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 2:05 pm
From: "h"

"Cindy Hamilton" <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:93e72c96-a6a1-4ff3-9a34-cef6d46e8c30@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 5, 1:18 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:

> Reason I ask is I'm taking my first ever C++ course and
> learning basic programming.... and one thing I have
> learned is I would NEVER want to be a programmer as
> just to much SITTING!! It seems like a very UNHEALTHY
> career? Yes?

>>It's a fine career. Every day, I come to work and solve
>>puzzles. And they pay me!

>>Hardly anybody chooses a career on whether it's healthy.
>>They mainly look for something they can make money at.

Hmm, I picked my career because it's what I like to do.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 4:50 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <hda3ll$9pj$1@aioe.org>, h <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote:

>"Cindy Hamilton" <angelicapaganelli@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:93e72c96-a6a1-4ff3-9a34-cef6d46e8c30@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>On Nov 5, 1:18 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:

>> Reason I ask is I'm taking my first ever C++ course and
>> learning basic programming.... and one thing I have
>> learned is I would NEVER want to be a programmer as
>> just to much SITTING!! It seems like a very UNHEALTHY
>> career? Yes?

Depends upon what you do with the rest of your time. You can
engage in active sports like biking, rock climbing, hiking,
etc. and stay in great shape.

>>>It's a fine career. Every day, I come to work and solve
>>>puzzles. And they pay me!

>>>Hardly anybody chooses a career on whether it's healthy.
>>>They mainly look for something they can make money at.

>Hmm, I picked my career because it's what I like to do.

Mine grew out of my hobby--computers. Now, I get paid to
pursue my hobby, and have lots of neat toys to play with,
which I don't have to pay for.

Gary

==============================================================================
TOPIC: resurfacing/sealing driveway - looking for grey color, not black
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1b22c0e95f812800?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 3:06 pm
From: Ohioguy

> If you stated the width and length of the driveway, you might get more
> interesting answers. Driveway work is always quoted in square feet.

It's about 17' wide, and 24' long.

I wish I could find a source for tiny (~1/8" size) limestone gravel.
I think I could mix that with the higher quality seal coat, and it
would be a lot like a tar & chip job.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 5:41 pm
From: Al

On Nov 9, 6:06 pm, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> > If you stated the width and length of the driveway, you might get more
>
> > interesting answers. Driveway work is always quoted in square feet.
>
> It's about 17' wide, and 24' long.
>
> I wish I could find a source for tiny (~1/8" size) limestone gravel.
> I think I could mix that with the higher quality seal coat, and it
> would be a lot like a tar & chip job.

I forget what they called it, but they used to do country roads in
upper Michigan with a process like that and they were quite durable.
With only 400 square feet you would have a high fixed cost in getting
any commercial concern to work on it. So this is a DIY project. I have
seen exactly what you describe on "This Old House" and they were able
to select various colors. Check out their site for possibilities. Your
timing on this is not so good with winter closing in. You might have
to do the crack cleaning and filling while you can now and finish the
work next spring.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 5:43 pm
From: Al

On Nov 9, 8:41 pm, Al <albun...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> On Nov 9, 6:06 pm, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
>
> > > If you stated the width and length of the driveway, you might get more
>
> > > interesting answers. Driveway work is always quoted in square feet.
>
> > It's about 17' wide, and 24' long.
>
> > I wish I could find a source for tiny (~1/8" size) limestone gravel.
> > I think I could mix that with the higher quality seal coat, and it
> > would be a lot like a tar & chip job.
>
> I forget what they called it, but they used to do country roads in
> upper Michigan with a process like that and they were quite durable.
> With only 400 square feet you would have a high fixed cost in getting
> any commercial concern to work on it. So this is a DIY project. I have
> seen exactly what you describe on "This Old House" and they were able
> to select various colors. Check out their site for possibilities. Your
> timing on this is not so good with winter closing in. You might have
> to do the crack cleaning and filling while you can now and finish the
> work next spring.

PS. If you end up with gravel chips on the surface, you won't be too
happy walking around in your bare feet as you said you liked to do.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Subsidy Nonsense Yet Again
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dff28f482d02ae5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 5:42 pm
From: The Real Bev

Phil W Lee wrote:

> "Rod Speed" wrote:
>
>>Phil W Lee wrote
>>
>>> THAT'S a subsidy.
>>
>>Not when its only part of what is raised in car taxes.
>
> Car taxes have never even come close to paying the cost of building
> and maintaining the road infrastructure. Not anywhere.

Bullshit. Maybe 30 years ago California had a surplus of gas tax money such
that the other voters (not me or my friends, I don't know anybody that dumb)
voted to transfer some amount of it into the general fund. Years later it was
determined that there wasn't enough gas tax money to maintain the roads
properly, so the other voters voted to add an additional gas tax to be devoted
to "transit" or "transportation", which included public transportation.

They do it with smoke and mirrors, and so few see the tricks that the public
always gets screwed.

--
Cheers, Bev
======================================================================
"Steve Balmer, CEO of Microsoft[0], recently referred to LINUX as a
cancer. Unsurprisingly, that's incorrect; LINUX was released on August
25th, 1991 and is therefore a virgo." -- Kevin L

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 8:14 pm
From: Scott in SoCal

Last time on misc.consumers, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> said:

>On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:08:15 -0800, Scott in SoCal
><scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Last time on misc.consumers, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> said:
>>
>>>He's no different than any of the little
>>>leftist who want to own your soul.
>>
>>Sorry, I'm not interested in owning your soul. I have enough junk
>>around here as it is. :)
>
>You're a damned liar, too.

Prove it.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 8:38 pm
From: krw

On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:14:57 -0800, Scott in SoCal
<scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Last time on misc.consumers, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> said:
>
>>On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:08:15 -0800, Scott in SoCal
>><scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Last time on misc.consumers, krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzz> said:
>>>
>>>>He's no different than any of the little
>>>>leftist who want to own your soul.
>>>
>>>Sorry, I'm not interested in owning your soul. I have enough junk
>>>around here as it is. :)
>>
>>You're a damned liar, too.
>
>Prove it.

Your own words work for me.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 9:08 pm
From: SMS

aemeijers wrote:
> Les Cargill wrote:
> (snip)
>> Check the CBO figures on what the Bush tax cuts have done to the
>> deficits. It would be irresponsible to continue them on a linear
>> projected basis, unless we're prepared to abandon deficit spending
>> altogether.
>>
>
> Funny, I thought it was the out-of-control spending that led to the
> deficits.

And you would be wrong. It was reducing revenue while at the same time
increasing spending. No one actually believed that Reaganomics had any
basis in reality, but enough people wanted to party for a few years with
the realization that they wouldn't be the ones having to pay the bill
when it came due.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: designer handbags,fashion handbags,replica handbag,choose your
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/09edf4be762ed756?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 7:05 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: I'm pissed off
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f12a32460293ccab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 7:14 pm
From: The Real Bev

Three weeks ago we went to the doctor for a general checkup and had blood and
urine sent to the lab. They got my husband's results back in 4 days, but mine
were missing. When I called last week, the guy said he'd check and call me
back. Nothing. I called again today. The nice vampire who drew the blood
said the lab never received it.

I believe the lab lost it -- much more likely that one out of hundreds was lost
than one out of five or ten. But what really gripes me is that I had to pester
the doctor's office about it, and got no results until the second time.

Insurance isn't the answer it's cracked up to be -- it certainly doesn't
guarantee competence.

--
Cheers, Bev
*****************************************
"Don't force it, use a bigger hammer!"
--M. Irving

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maclaren strollers recalled for amputating fingers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1087c35a93a370f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 9 2009 7:19 pm
From: zeez

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/11/09/2009-11-09_kid_stroller_can_cut_off_fingertips.html#ixzz0WNlsCoOG

Maclaren stroller recall: Firm recalls 1 million strollers on concerns
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1c1fd30699d9a1ec?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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Laser Pendant -JP0127: http://shop.steeljewelry.org/wholesale-jewelry-755.html
Laser Pendant -JP0157: http://shop.steeljewelry.org/wholesale-jewelry-756.html
Laser Pendant -JP0177: http://shop.steeljewelry.org/wholesale-jewelry-757.html
Laser Pendant -JP0181: http://shop.steeljewelry.org/wholesale-jewelry-758.html

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Frugal Living

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Monday, November 9, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest