Frugal Living: Mar 28, 2008

Friday, March 28, 2008

25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: working from home for the next 5 weeks?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e946a2a773f633a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 27 2008 6:56 pm
From: "Lou"

> Sal_55 wrote:
> > On 27 Mar, 22:20, "mart2...@hotmail.com" <mart2...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 27 Mar, 21:31, Sal_55 <zaman_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I'm ill, and can't leave the house at all for the next 5 weeks or
> >>> so. So I'm interested in knowing if anyone can tell me of any ways
> >>> I can work from home for this period of time? I have done a quick
> >>> search of the web and already I'm getting the impression that there
> >>> arer a lot of scam sites offering work to people desperate for
> >>> extra money. So I'm looking for genuine work only. Also, I don't
> >>> want to sound too greedy, but I'd obviously prefer jobs which are
> >>> high paying than low paying jobs.
> >>> This might sound weird, but I know those companies which offer
> >>> people money to allow them to take part in clinical trials of new
> >>> pharmaceutical drugs, require all people testing drugs to be
> >>> healthy. But I can't even leave the house due to a broken bone. But
> >>> are there any companies which allow people to be tested with drugs
> >>> at home? Alternatively,are there any other products which I can
> >>> test at home and be paid for testing them? Please don't laugh if
> >>> that is too stupd a question.
> >>> Thanks for reading this and bye.
> >>
> >> Can buy and sell on ebay.
> >> Not so sure about the high paying bit - there are several I can think
> >> of but all take longer than 5 weeks to set up and get going to more
> >> than cover costs.
> >> Still, if you have the right skills, some employers will pay for work
> >> done.
> >>
> >> Writing articles for magazines is profitable. But can you write well
> >> enough to be noticed in the slush pile?
> >>
> >> Martin <><- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > Putting modesty to one side, I am quite quick-witted with a sharp
> > tongue. But that's a symptom of my depression. I can write good
> > english and amuse ppl,but I don't want to. Because that'll be the
> > depression talking. Most ppl won't understand what I just wrote. Ppl
> > who're clinically depressed often become very witty. Just as blind ppl
> > develop acute hearing. I don't really know the reason,maybe it's a
> > defence mechanism of sorts.
> > I like the idea of buying and selling on ebay a lot. On laptop
> > computers I can imagine making 40 pounds on each laptop won't be too
> > hard. But how do I take the laptops to the post office,with my broken
> > foot?
> > Sorry for sounding so damn lazy,but what I'd really like is to have
> > some pharmaceuticals injected into me, and then in 5 weeks time, I can
> > go to the Clinical research companies headquarters and have the
> > necessary blood tests, and be paid.
>

What's the deal - are you in traction or something else that totally
immobilizes you? How do you get to the bathroom, the dinner table, the
horizontal surface your computer is sitting on so you can type these posts?
Ever hear of a wheelchair or crutches?

I work in the clinical trial field, though not at testing sites. Some
trials require you to be sick - they're testing drugs/devices that hopefully
will make sick people better, after all. Some early stage trials require
you to be healthy - they're checking to see what doses can be tolerated, how
long they stay in the body, and possible side effects. Some trials last
only a day, some for weeks, months, ...

Most trials are pills, not injections. Ones that are injections or IV's
generally are a series of injections or IV's. For the ones that use healthy
subjects where the drug "half-life" is being checked, they take a blood
sample every 30 minutes or so for several hours.
I've never heard of one where they come to your house.

Yes you get paid (if you follow instructions), but you'll never get rich
being a test subject. I've never heard of a trial where the
doctors/technicians/whatever come to your house.

And just as an aside, my sister has a broken foot and is still wearing a
boot and using crutches six months after the event. She's raising three
kids, keeping house, and going to work every day. Oh, and going to the
doctor, who says everything is progressing right on schedule.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Un-insulated water heater tank by woodstove!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a42916fb887669dc?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 5:38 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:24:43 -0500, "S. Barker"
<ichasetrains@coldmail.com> wrote:

>Kind of like PIN number and
>
>NIC card
>
> and
>
>VIN number and
>
>CDL license. and and and.... the list is endless.
>
>lots of dumasses, I've even seen "PIN number" on official bank documents
>and such.

It is the way the language develops. If you want to pedantic, how
many times have you seen 72 point type advertising-

BABY SALE!

... or such obvious idiotic hyperbole from major metropolitan
newspapers as-

"All the news that is fit to print"

or spaceships splitting infinitives -

"to boldy go where no man has gone before"

There is a reason for the usenet rule of not commenting on spelling
and grammar. It wastes time and drains energy from the actual topic
being discussed. We've all done it, but at about one or two thousand
posts into using the medium, most of us realize that it is
non-productive and more annoying than the original gaff.

The tempering tank idea is an old one. In my Pop Mechanics
encyclopedia, one is shown being hung from joists in a cellar, near an
old coal burning furnace. Sometimes tanks like this sweat, and can be
a problem in the living space.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 7:54 pm
From: "Edwin Pawlowski"

<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
> Because water that doesn't contain heat is ice.
>

But not all ice is absent of heat. Unless the ice is at absolute zero.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:25 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Bill wrote:
> Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall next
> to my woodstove.
>
> After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> the top was not cold.
>
> The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.

Overall, I think this is a good idea that might save energy if, as
someone else has pointed out, wood is cheaper source of heat than
electricity.

There's only one thing that I'd want to verify: what kind of germs
are going to grow in water that is above 70F but below the temperature
of a regular water heater's tank? They say one reason not to turn
your water heater's thermostat too low is that the lower temperatures
encourage germs to multiply. If that's true, it seems like this
might apply to the tank next to your wood stove.

Of course, I'm not an expert in germ growth or anything. It's just
the one possible hitch that I can see, and so far nobody else has
mentioned it, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nike Air Jordan Retro 1 beginning momens NFL Jersey China wholesaoe
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6c57e2ba4041c8f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 4:45 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are sunrooms considered in the square fotage of a home for real estate
tax purposes?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/17d6a24937afcfc1?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 4:50 pm
From: Kompu Kid

I asked this elsewhere but no answers yet.

I am also wondering if and when a workshop gets included in the sq.
footage.

Any comments?

On Mar 27, 10:16 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Helo All:
>
> My aunt is considering a sunroom for her home. She asked me to
> research and find out how the county would treat the additional square
> footage covered for real estate taxes.
>
> She lives in San Jose Ca (Santa Clara county).
>
> Thanks!
>
> Deguza

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 5:00 pm
From: DerbyDad03

On Mar 28, 7:50 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I asked this elsewhere but no answers yet.
>
> I am also wondering if and when a workshop gets included in the sq.
> footage.
>
> Any comments?
>
> On Mar 27, 10:16 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Helo All:
>
> > My aunt is considering a sunroom for her home. She asked me to
> > research and find out how the county would treat the additional square
> > footage covered for real estate taxes.
>
> > She lives in San Jose Ca (Santa Clara county).
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > Deguza- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

re: I asked this elsewhere but no answers yet.

I'm guessing the one place you didn't ask was the county offices of
Santa Clara.

What things gets taxed (and how) in the county of Santa Clara, CA is
probably very different from what things get taxed in (and how) in
Athens County, OH or Yates County, NY or Orleans Parish, LA..

You'll get the most accurate answer directly from those that do the
taxing.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 6:21 pm
From: gfretwell@aol.com

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Kompu Kid
<deguza@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I asked this elsewhere but no answers yet.
>
>I am also wondering if and when a workshop gets included in the sq.
>footage.
>
>Any comments?
>
>
>
>On Mar 27, 10:16 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Helo All:
>>
>> My aunt is considering a sunroom for her home. She asked me to
>> research and find out how the county would treat the additional square
>> footage covered for real estate taxes.
>>
>> She lives in San Jose Ca (Santa Clara county).
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Deguza

Where I live they count everything but at different rates. (SW
Florida). You can go look at the property assessor web site to see
this in action

leepa.org

do a database search on some common name and walk up and down the
street (next higher/lower strap number).
If you look at "details" near the bottom of the page it will show you
the floor plan they use to assess.

I bet there is a similar site for your area. BTW if you are a privacy
person this may be scary.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 6:59 pm
From: TD

DerbyDad03 <teamarrows@eznet.net> wrote in news:fe046590-bdd0-4f1f-9d7f-
f158ee0ecd19@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> On Mar 28, 7:50 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I asked this elsewhere but no answers yet.
>>
>> I am also wondering if and when a workshop gets included in the sq.
>> footage.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>> On Mar 27, 10:16 pm, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Helo All:
>>
>> > My aunt is considering a sunroom for her home. She asked me to
>> > research and find out how the county would treat the additional square
>> > footage covered for real estate taxes.
>>
>> > She lives in San Jose Ca (Santa Clara county).
>>
>> > Thanks!
>>
>> > Deguza- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> re: I asked this elsewhere but no answers yet.
>
> I'm guessing the one place you didn't ask was the county offices of
> Santa Clara.
>
> What things gets taxed (and how) in the county of Santa Clara, CA is
> probably very different from what things get taxed in (and how) in
> Athens County, OH or Yates County, NY or Orleans Parish, LA..
>
> You'll get the most accurate answer directly from those that do the
> taxing.

The accessor counts if it's heated. My basement and ground floor enclosed
porch (not heated) and garage are not counted.
Me thinks DerbyDad is on the money with his answer.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Definition
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01325490a4f876e9?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 5:17 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Neil Hopkins <neil_hopkins@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Al Bundy <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>>> äÓãÉ ÇíãÇä wrote:
>>>> What does 'Islam' mean? Islam is not a new religion, but the same
>>>> truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people;
>>>> Islam is both a religion and the complete way of life. Muslims
>>>> follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness. The Arabic
>>>> word 'Islam' simply means 'submission', and derives from a word
>>>> meaning 'peace'. In a religious cont ext it means complete
>>>> submission to the will of God. 'Mohammadanism' is thus a misnomer
>>>> because it suggests that Muslims worship Muhammad (peace be upon
>>>> him) rather than God. 'Allah' is the Arabic name for God, which is
>>>> used by Arab Muslims and Christians alike.
>>>>
>>>> Islam is not Just for Arabs. The Truth of Islam is meant for all
>>>> people regardless of race, nationality or linguistic background.
>>>> Taking a look at the Muslim World, from Nigeria to Bosnia and from
>>>> Malaysia to Afghanistan is enough to prove that Islam is a
>>>> Universal message for all of mankind --- not to mention the fact
>>>> that significant numbers of Europeans and Americans of all races
>>>> and ethnic backgrounds are coming into Islam
>>> Islam means violence and hate to me. That's the truth of it.
>>
>> Corse there never ever has been any violence or hate with Xtians, eh ?

> All religions are a cancer on the human psyche.

Sure, but some are much worse on violence and hate than others.

> Believing in things that aren't there is never a good thing.

Thats arguable. It can be a viable crutch for those with pathetically inadequate 'minds'

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:28 pm
From: Logan Shaw

نسمة ايمان wrote:
> What does 'Islam' mean?

If I had no information other than this post to go on, I would say
that Islam is the religion of people who post spam to newsgroups.

Probably Islam is more meaningful than that, but you should take
a look at how your behavior reflects on your religion.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Punishing the frugal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/28a507f3067a6cb4?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 6:29 pm
From: "Lou"

"PaPaPeng" <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5gtlu3pbdpth6qjdmjpn54junt9q4qjhsa@4ax.com...
>
> Reminds me of a Dear Abby letter from the 70s. This guy did all the
> right things like doing without so that he could put aside enough
> money for his two daughters' education fund. When time came for
> college he found the daughter couldn't qualify for a student loan
> because she had money in the fund. Meanwhile the neighbor who had a
> very similar income level as our guy lived it up with annual holidays
> to exotic places , etc. When college came of course they had no
> savings and their daughter did get a student loan.;

I half-remember that (or a similar) story. It's maybe not quite as ironic
as it sounds - a loan, after all, is not free money. After all, people here
for years have been advising paying cash for a car instead of being so
foolish as to take out a loan. Assuming the parents paid for the loan, then
one family paid up front and one family paid after the fact. If the student
paid for the loan, then one family shifted the cost of college from the
parents to the child.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 6:35 pm
From: "Lou"

"Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q5vnu3p3fk2g6jnmq3pi23de2akpbn4685@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:38:31 -0700 (PDT), Seerialmom
> <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Mar 26, 6:22 pm, PaPaPeng <PaPaP...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:17:20 -0600, timeOday
> >>
> >> <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >What, you were prudish enough to buy a home you could afford when
poorer
> >> >people were buying nicer houses they couldn't? No bailout for you! Now
> >> >you get to pay your own mortgage *and* help out the more "ambitious
> >> >consumers" amongst us sustain their lifestyle.
> >>
> >>
><http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/26/news/economy/bailout/index.htm?postve...>
> >>
> >> Reminds me of a Dear Abby letter from the 70s. This guy did all the
> >> right things like doing without so that he could put aside enough
> >> money for his two daughters' education fund. When time came for
> >> college he found the daughter couldn't qualify for a student loan
> >> because she had money in the fund. Meanwhile the neighbor who had a
> >> very similar income level as our guy lived it up with annual holidays
> >> to exotic places , etc. When college came of course they had no
> >> savings and their daughter did get a student loan.;
> >
> >Couldn't agree more! Same with taxes (same income but lower mortage
> >debt equals less write offs).
>
> Personally, I'd rather have the money on hand to buy something (like
> an education or a home) than to have the government provide a partial
> subsidy of interest payments so I could take out a loan for it. I
> know that some can use the latter to advantage, but I still prefer the
> former.
>
Yeah, it would be nice to have enough money to buy whatever you
wanted/needed without having to worry where the money was coming from. Most
people don't make enough to simultaneously pay rent and save enough to buy a
big ticket item like a house - to essentially double their shelter expenses
for however many years it takes to accumulate those savings. Especially not
early on, when income tends to be low.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/06f3de4f97ec1f1e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 6:22 pm
From: happy_life0011@hotmail.com

In The Name Of Allaah,

Most Gracious, Most Merciful

YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
MUHAMMAD
(May peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him)
You may be an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to anyone of
the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may be
a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what you
are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs, personal
and social habits happen to be - YOU MUST STILL KNOW THIS MAN!

He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this
earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid
down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms,
established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent
his teachings, and completely revolutionized the worlds of human
thought and action for all times to come.

HIS NAME IS MUHAMMAD, peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon him
and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span
of twenty-three years.

Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him was born in
Arabia on the 20th of August, in the year 570 of the Christian era,
and when he died after 63 years, the whole of the Arabian Peninsula
had changed from paganism and idol-worship to the worship of One God;
from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion;
from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety; from
lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living; from utter moral
bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human history
has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place
before or since!

The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all
religious personalities of the world". Bernard Shaw said about him
that if Muhammad were alive today he would succeed in solving all
those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our
times. Thomas Carlysle was simply amazed as to how one man, single-
handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most
powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades. Napoleon and
Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines
established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.

Indeed no other human being ever accomplished so much, in such diverse
fields of human thought and behavior, in so limited a space of time,
as did Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him. He
was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, a political
thinker, a military genius, an administrative colossus, a faithful
friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father -
all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in
any of these difficult departments of life.

The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were one
sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields
such as religious thought or military leadership. None of the other
great leaders of the world ever combined in himself so many different
qualities to such an amazing level of perfection as did Muhammad,
peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him.

The lives and teachings of other great personalities of the world are
shrouded in the mist of time. There is so much speculation about the
time and the place of their birth, the mode and style of their life,
the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure of
their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity today to
reconstruct accurately and precisely the lives and teachings of those
men.

Not so this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him. Not only was he born in the fullest blaze of recorded history,
but every detail of his private and public life, of his actions and
utterances, has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved to
our day. The authenticity of the information so preserved is vouched
for not only by faithful followers but also by unbiased critics and
open-minded scholars.

At the level of ideas there is no system of thought and belief-secular
or religious, social or political-which could surpass or equal ISLAAM-
the system which Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him propounded. In a fast changing world, while other systems have
undergone profound transformations, Islaam alone has remained above
all change and mutation, and retained its original form for the past
1400 years. What is more, the positive changes that are taking place
in the world of human thought and behavior, truly and consistently
reflect the healthy influence of Islam in these areas. Further, it is
not given to the best of thinkers to put their ideas completely into
practice, and to see the seeds of their labors grow and bear fruit, in
their own lifetime. Except of course, Muhammad, peace and blessings of
God Almighty be upon him, who not only preached the most wonderful
ideas but also successfully translated each one of them into practice
in his own lifetime. At the time of his death his teachings were not
mere precepts and ideas straining for fulfillment, but had become the
very core of the life of tens of thousands of perfectly trained
individuals, each one of whom was a marvelous personification of
everything that Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him taught and stood for. At what other time or place and in relation
to what other political, social, religious system, philosophy or
ideology-did the world ever witness such a perfectly amazing
phenomenon?

Indeed no other system or ideology secular or religious, social or
political, ancient or modern - could ever claim the distinction of
having been put into practice in its fullness and entirety EVEN ONCE
in this world, either before or after the death of its founder. Except
of course ISLAAM, the ideology preached by Muhammad, peace and
blessings of God Almighty be upon him which was established as a
complete way of life by the teacher himself, before he departed from
this world. History bears testimony to this fact and the greatest
skeptics have no option but to concede this point.

In spite of these amazing achievements and in spite of the countless
absolutely convincing and authentic miracles performed by him and the
phenomenal success which crowned his efforts, he did not for a moment
claim to be God or God's incarnation or Son - but only a human being
who was chosen and ordained by God to be a teacher of truth to man
kind and a complete model and pattern for their actions.

He was nothing more or less than a human being. But he was a man with
a noble and exalted mission-and his unique mission was to unite
humanity on the worship of ONE AND ONLY GOD and to teach them the way
to honest and upright living in accordance with the laws and commands
of God. He always described himself as A MESSENGER AND SERVANT OF GOD,
and so indeed every single action and movement of his proclaimed him
to be.

A world which has not hesitated to raise to Divinity individuals whose
very lives and missions have been lost in legend and who historically
speaking did not accomplish half as much-or even one tenth-as was
accomplished by Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
him should stop to take serious note of this remarkable man's claim to
be God's messenger to mankind.

Today after the lapse of some 1400 years the life and teachings of
Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him,
have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or interpolation.
Today they offer the same undying hope for treating mankind's many
ills which they did when Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God
Almighty be upon him, was alive. This is our honest claim and this is
the inescapable conclusion forced upon us by a critical and unbiased
study of history.

The least YOU should do as a thinking, sensitive, concerned human
being is to stop for one brief moment and ask yourself: Could it be
that these statements, extraordinary and revolutionary as they sound,
are really true? Supposing they really are true, and you did not know
this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him or
hear about his teachings? Or did not know him well and intimately
enough to be able to benefit from his guidance and example? Isn't it
time you responded to this tremendous challenge and made some effort
to know him? It will not cost you anything but it may well prove to be
the beginning of a completely new era in your life.

Come, let us make a new discovery of the life of this wonderful man
Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him the like of
whom never walked on this earth, and whose example and teachings can
change YOUR LIFE and OUR WORLD for the better. May God shower His
choicest blessings upon him!

Written by S.H. Pasha

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BEST PRICE !!! china wholesale AF1 x jordan 4 5 23 fusion shoes
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bc042765b0eff264?hl=en
==============================================================================

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TOPIC: TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/926dd647a485f42f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 7:34 pm
From: jrudoy@yahoo.com

TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV Converter
Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008. $28/bo

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:19 pm
From: George Grapman

jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:
> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV Converter
> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008. $28/bo
Wow! $28 for something that is being given away.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:35 pm
From: George Grapman

jrudoy@yahoo.com wrote:
> TV Converter Box Coupon for Sale. Takes $40 off payment for TV Converter
> Box to get digital TV signal on analog/old TV. Valid to 5/27/2008. $28/bo

http://www.wcpo.com/content/news/localshows/dontwasteyourmoney/story.aspx?content_id=f971849b-585b-4a2f-a707-adc46fed0eeb

Gerard Catapano of Consumer Reports says "the Government has set up a
program to help people buy a digital Convert Box, by offering a 40
dollar coupon to purchase a box."

Just call 888-DTV-2009..or go to www.dtv2009.gov.

Your coupon should
arrive in a couple of months.

So stay informed, so you don't waste your money.

I'm John Matarese.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: recording shows if using analog - digital converter box
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/60b97400b1596c25?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:22 pm
From: aemeijers

Logan Shaw wrote:
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>> dh says there may be a problem with ntsc boxes. something about
>> being able to record only the show you're watching.
>
> First of all, I assume you are talking about a digital television
> tuner box. These are actually digital to analog converters, not
> the other way around, and they have a tuner in them as well.
>
> Second, it is likely that the box will only be able to tune in one
> program at a time, especially since as far as I know, all the boxes
> have only one output of each type.
>
> This doesn't mean you'll only be able to record the show you're
> watching. You just need a tuner for every program you want to
> tune in at a single time. If you're going to tune in one program
> to watch it and another program to record it, you'll naturally
> need two tuners. I don't think I'd call that a problem, though;
> it's just what the boxes are: tuners that tune in one program
> at a time.
>
> - Logan
Shrug. That is why, even though I live alone, I got 2 converter boxes.
If the satt feed is down, or there happens to be 2 things I want to
watch at the same time and neither happen to be carried on satt
(actually possible, since my satt locals only include half the OTA
stations, and the locals they carry like to pre-empt stuff for sports),
I'll just set up one to to the VCR, and watch the other.

About one more price hike, and satt will be going bye-bye anyway. Only
signed up with them because even entry-level comcast got beyond my gag
point, price-wise.

--
aem sends...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Violence at Black Funeral Homes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/28cc4fc6f3328351?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:31 pm
From: DonnaGiorno@excite.it

> On Mar 28, 1:32 pm, pres <afamrep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.afamreport.com
>
> > Clarence Glover has a surveillance camera in the chapel of his funeral
> > home. Joseph Garr sometimes carries a revolver in his hearse. Carl
> > Swann Jr. is contemplating leaving the business. The three directors
> > of black funeral parlors here have been assaulted at services and each
> > has had gunshots fired during burials.

Isn't it just like a nigger to chimp out at a funeral?

Gun control laws were created by the jews for 1
reason: Disarm White America so the jigs take over.

Donna

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal term-life insurance???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50510abfe419b80f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:47 pm
From: "pepita@prodigy.net"

On Mar 28, 5:01 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> I went to work for a company, and recently found myself without a job.
> > Through the company, I paid $7.98 every week, for $100K policy. I called to
> > get a quote on continuing life-insurance, they want a whopping $39.60 per
> > 1K coverage per year. It comes out to almost $4K per year.

Something seems way off here. Try calling a local "independant
agent" at one of the insurance agencies in your area and get some
quotes from them, or go look at Select Quote and figure something
yourself...
We just bought some term life insurance for my DH last year. 40 year
old non-smoker, we got a million and a half dollar, 20 year policy
(the rate won't change for 20 years) for just about $1000 per year.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving in New York on 99 cents
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3504240fa7698ae2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:03 pm
From: The Real Bev

Donna wrote:

> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/dining/26ninety.html?_r=1&ref=dining&oref=slogin>
>
> Interesting story. Our dollar stores are not that great around here and
> often carry really inferior products. I'm thinking NYC has more to offer.

The 99-Cents-Only stores in the Los Angeles (and other, I guess) area
carry a lot of foreign food (mostly China, but not exclusively), a
variety of name-brand sausage/hotdog products, fresh vegetables and
fruits, a lot of exotic sauces (the Philippine banana sauce was pretty
bland, but wotthehell) and a nice variety of brand-name toothpaste and
deodorant as well as a lot of imported bathroom needs and cleaning
supplies. Like Fry's, you could live in a 99-Cents-Only store :-)

http://www.99only.com/

I love those stores. The penny-a-minute long distance cards alone are
worth the price of admission.

--
Cheers,
Bev
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"We're from the Government. We're here to help."

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 10:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Donna wrote
>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote

>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/dining/26ninety.html?_r=1&ref=dining&oref=slogin>

>> Interesting story. Our dollar stores are not that great around here and often carry really inferior products. I'm
>> thinking NYC has more to offer.

> The 99-Cents-Only stores in the Los Angeles (and other, I guess) area carry a lot of foreign food (mostly China, but
> not exclusively), a variety of name-brand sausage/hotdog products,

Trouble is that those are made from surplus cats and dogs and rats.

> fresh vegetables and fruits, a lot of exotic sauces (the Philippine banana sauce was pretty bland, but wotthehell) and
> a nice variety of brand-name toothpaste and deodorant as well as a lot of imported bathroom needs and cleaning
> supplies. Like Fry's, you could live in a 99-Cents-Only store :-)

> http://www.99only.com/

> I love those stores. The penny-a-minute long distance cards alone are worth the price of admission.

You're better off with voip.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fecklessness
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d10fa80690ae600a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:05 pm
From: Chuggmy_Juggawhizz@yahoo.com

On Mar 28, 11:19 pm, ShawnHirnsG...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Mar 28, 10:15 pm, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <3d9c461b-5bbe-4961-afd6-fc015495a...@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
> > The BIG N <ni...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > > With no real rhyme, reason, or purpose, the ineffective Troll Shane
> > > still plods along with his feeble, futile, and aimless net-patter.
>
> > > Sad when such an abnormal need for attention surpasses the
> > > understanding of the essence self-worth, self-respect, and a little
> > > dignity.
>
> > And what's your "rhyme, reason, or purpose" for perpetuating your lies?
>
> Proof????
> Why SURE
> The things LIARS say
>
> "For you to twist that into claiming a protective effect of smoking
> is
> dishonest. Further, that study looked at one disease; lung cancer.
> Smoking and secondhand smoke are associated with my diseases such as
> emphysema which were not addressed in the study you cited."
>
> How's that emphysema doing?
> Cat piss helping any?
> How bout a lil trash fire scarecrow?
>
> Path: g2news2.google.com!news4.google.com!
> border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!
> local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!
> not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 19:25:01 -0600
> From: Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.smokers
> Subject: Re: Secondhand smoke
> References: <srhi-28C28D.00081030012007@newsgroups.comcast.net>
> <epnbp9$9e...@aioe.org>
> <1170162076.987098.16...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>
> <1170182313.101414.299...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
> <srhi-85CFD2.22560730012...@newsgroups.comcast.net>
> <a2c0s25903lp2hfbhbvbfv50d8v363c...@4ax.com> <MN1wh.
> 13240$Cg1.4...@bignews8.bellsouth.net>
> <tud1s2duu4lk4bc2nnb9kjqndq3186f...@4ax.com>
> <6eSdnQe_xpi-617YnZ2dnUVZ_rSjn...@rcn.net>
> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.2 (Intel Mac OS X)
> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 20:25:00 -0500
> Message-ID: <srhi-F6830D.20250003022007@newsgroups.comcast.net>
> Lines: 51
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.44.34.241
> X-Trace: sv3-aCZSKtoaENQuDsvtlVXwCGBEZCrnHgJK9nRqKQ7oPRughBc3VFquh/
> SvrbagFywjIoKJWtb2wn/roMf!R4nVLAjPUpVJ66g4T91PiHEmM/
> sTrqnCgZTc58U4r1+EdiGguRjiDcouosgirmkGVRO5jjrgzyJG!RRSrqbWFERqZYQ==
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@comcast.net
> X-DMCA-Complaints-To: d...@comcast.net
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
> complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.32
>
> In article <6eSdnQe_xpi-617YnZ2dnUVZ_rSjn...@rcn.net>,
>
>
>
>
>
> nightlight <nightlight.s...@skip.omegapoint.com> wrote:
> > Robert wrote:
>
> > >>The WHO tried to blame the results on a small sample size. However, in
> > >>the Journal of the National Cancer Institute, where the results were
> > >>published, the researchers clearly state: "An important aspect of our
> > >>study in relation to previous studies is its size, which allowed us to
> > >>obtain risk estimates with good statistical precision..."
>
> > >>"http://www.davehitt.com/facts/who.html
>
> > > That site has a link to full text of the report.
> > >http://www.obscurious.co.uk/componants/smoking1440.pdf
>
> > You might wish to replace that link with the one to the original JNCI
> > site which published that study and which also has the full (and free)
> > PDF copy of the paper. Otherwise, the antismoking trolls having no other
> > good argument will distract any discussion on this study by dragging in
> > and arguing against whatever else (UFO, consipiracy theories,...) is
> > posted at that "obscurious.co.uk" site, as if the study discussed were
> > published by them (which is probably a front staffed or ran by
> > provocateurs with the sole job to discredit, by association, whatever
> > fact those paying them don't wish to be seen as reputable).
>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Multicenter case-control study of exposure to environmental
> > tobacco smoke and lung cancer in Europe."
> > J Natl Cancer Inst. 1998 Oct 7;90(19):1440-50.
>
> > Boffetta P, Agudo A, Ahrens W, Benhamou E, Benhamou S, Darby SC, Ferro
> > G, Fortes C, Gonzalez CA, Jockel KH, Krauss M, Kreienbrock L, Kreuzer M,
> > Mendes A, Merletti F, Nyberg F, Pershagen G, Pohlabeln H, Riboli E,
> > Schmid G, Simonato L, Tredaniel J, Whitley E, Wichmann HE, Winck C,
> > Zambon P, Saracci R.
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Journal of the National Cancer Institute (full text)
> >http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/90/19/1440
>
> This study said absolutely nothing about protective effects; what it
> said was they simply found no reason to believe that children who
> were
> exposed to secondhand smoke were no more likely to get lung cancer
> then
> kids who were not exposed to secondhand smoke.
>
> For you to twist that into claiming a protective effect of smoking is
> dishonest. Further, that study looked at one disease; lung cancer.
> Smoking and secondhand smoke are associated with my diseases such as
> emphysema which were not addressed in the study you cited.
>
> Path: aioe.org!news.germany.com!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!
> border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!
> local02.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!
> not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:45:57 -0500
> From: Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net>
> Newsgroups: alt.smokers
> Subject: Re: Eliot Spitzer, antismoking leader, self-destructs
> References: <tplbt39nk4m6dt1ab6lom2g4a20ej0i...@4ax.com>
> <f39fcc37-7f5e-428c-98be-368059f51...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.5.3b1 (PPC Mac OS X)
> X-No-Archive: yes
> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:45:57 -0400
> Message-ID: <srhi-FCD465.20455710032...@comcast.dca.giganews.com>
> Lines: 22
> X-Usenet-Provider:http://www.giganews.com
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.44.35.193
> X-Trace: sv3-aeDk2kBlLjjuTZ2wUblP+08Zus46uGKnxaEc1XrET/
> q75f5OjHm8o5bW0ZNHuQMmv9BNYCI5799R/jx!
> gSFiBZjZqnAt0Un58keYpoLSw7UmS1VVtjGDcvWzkUZnGDB10faMjmGTa9+mr9Iqp5qKoi7zwu6t!
> DoMgOytpZumi6ZHC/Yy4SnXV1IPl7IKM3gGHBA==
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@comcast.net
> X-DMCA-Complaints-To: d...@comcast.net
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
> X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your
> complaint properly
> X-Postfilter: 1.3.37
>
> "Shawn Hirn" <s...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:srhi-
>
> FCD465.20455710032...@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <f39fcc37-7f5e-428c-98be-368059f51...@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > The BIG N <ni...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Mar 10, 8:51 pm, Robert <n...@e.mail> wrote:
> >> > Zero tolerance, no compromise, no mercy.
>
> >> > Bye bye, hypocrite.
>
> >> Sooner or later the zealot and control-freak, right, left or
> >> otherwise, is going to trip over his own feet. Look at Troll Shane and
> >> Babs Broughton, for just one example.
>
> > You really can't count. That's two examples, not one. It sounds like
> > you're a fifth grade drop out.
>
> > Spitzer kind of reminds me of Bill Clinton, where they both obviously
> > got caught in outrageously stupid acts. Just like smokers who think they
> > are immune to the consequences of their actions, Spitzer obviously
> > thought that somehow, he was better than all the johns that got nabbed
> > for prostitution. I agree, Spitzer is a hypocrite, especially since
> > prostitution should be legalized.
>
> Yep ! Gotta buy your women , such a LIAR can' t possibly
> smoth talk and get one that stay's with you huh?
>

Shame Him is such a liar he' ll never realize what an incredible ass
he has
made of himself.

He cares not about anything but his agenda.

Ken Pangborn has more credibility.

see for yourself Shame Him

http://tinyurl.com/ys3oqd

http://tinyurl.com/26wrgc

Chugg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: billigfluege stuttgart flug muenchen la palma flug nach la palma fluege
nach mallorca de mallorca fluege nach palma de mallorca mallorca flug von
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/470da1d692088925?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 10:17 pm
From: kgkgjkgkgkfgk

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25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Un-insulated water heater tank by woodstove! - 8 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a42916fb887669dc?hl=en
* you ask and quran answer - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6628ac9f4b1517ee?hl=en
* working from home for the next 5 weeks? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e946a2a773f633a?hl=en
* ( WWW.SNEAKERS-IN-CHINA.COM ) Nike fusion shoes,air jordan 4 fusion,AJF4
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air force 1 fusions - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/79299b3572fea00e?hl=en
* Police: Obese relative may have crushed boy - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1a4f12dc63ba9f1a?hl=en
* max 90 R3 R4 shox tn gucci parda shoes handbags AF hot sale accept PAYPAL -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6a2b35da26baee80?hl=en
* billige fluege ibiza billig reise ibiza billigflug ibiza flug berlin nach
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ibiza billigflug muenchen ibiza - 3 messages, 3 authors
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== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 6:59 am
From: "Bill"

As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
bill...

Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot of
heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.

Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into my
hot water heater????

Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!

I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed the
sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare metal
50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.

Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)

Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall next
to my woodstove.

After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
the top was not cold.

The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.

Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if I
have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.

Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install the
tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be. That
is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe to
outside for draining the tank.

Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possibility
of steam being created.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 7:17 am
From: Lawrence

On Mar 28, 8:59 am, "Bill" <billnomailnosp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> bill...
>
> Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot of
> heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into my
> hot water heater????
>
> Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed the
> sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare metal
> 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.
>
> Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall next
> to my woodstove.
>
> After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> the top was not cold.
>
> The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if I
> have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
> while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install the
> tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be. That
> is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
> suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe to
> outside for draining the tank.
>
> Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possibility
> of steam being created.

that sound like its working and and I see no question here. One
application that I have seen is to use a wood boiler to heat all of
your hot water with a heat exchanger. It can also be used to heat the
entire house in several different ways.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:16 am
From: "Lee K"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:654bunF2e2n0aU1@mid.individual.net...

> my > hot water heater????
>

Just curious: why is it that you want to heat hot water?

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:51 am
From: ransley

Get gas if you can, my electric water heater was 50% of my electric
bill or 35$ a month, my gas tankless costs me now 6$ a month. I kept
the tank to preheat water also.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:34 am
From: "TKM"

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:654bunF2e2n0aU1@mid.individual.net...
> As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> bill...
>
> Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot
> of heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into
> my hot water heater????
>
> Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed
> the sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare
> metal 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat
> better.
>
> Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall
> next to my woodstove.
>
> After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> the top was not cold.
>
> The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if
> I have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for
> a while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install
> the tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would
> be. That is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I
> don't suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and
> pipe to outside for draining the tank.
>
> Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no
> possibility of steam being created.
>
Sounds like a great idea to me. That tank of warm water (I think such a
thing is also called a "tempering tank") also radiates heat back into your
space when the stove fire goes down and so the room should hold a more even
temperature. It's also an emergency water supply -- assuming you can get
the water in the tank out with no watter pressure if, for some reason the
main water supply fails.

Living on a farm many years ago, we had a similar arrangement. The
uninsulated hot water tank was placed next to the coal furnance to soak up
radiant heat and a loop of steel pipe went from the tank through the fire
box in the furnace to speed up the process. There was an auxiliary kerosene
heater also connected to the tank for heating water in the summertime.

TKM

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:38 am
From: ransley

If you have the time get another tank, put it outside with bypass
valves, when nightime temps are above incomming water temp let the
tank fill, the sun will heat it fast

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:55 am
From: Elmo

Bill said (on or about) 03/28/2008 09:59:
> As you may know, an electric water heater can be 30% of your electric
> bill...
>
> Well I got to thinking... I have this nice woodstove which puts out a lot of
> heat and it is always 80 to 100 degrees (F) next to the woodstove.
>
> Is there some way I can use this heat to "pre-heat" the water going into my
> hot water heater????
>
> Well I came up with an idea and tried it out. It works!
>
> I got a used 50 gallon water heater at a recycling center. Then removed the
> sheet metal cover and removed the insulation. So now I had just a bare metal
> 50 gallon tank. I painted it black as in theory black absorbs heat better.
>
> Then I placed this tank next to my woodstove. Then disconnected the cold
> water going to my hot water heater and ran that to the bottom (drain)
> connection on the tank by the woodstove. Then ran a pipe going out the top
> of the tank by the woodstove to the cold water inlet of my electric hot
> water heater. (Cold into the bottom, warm out the top.)
>
> Note: My electric water heater is located on the other side of the wall next
> to my woodstove.
>
> After just a few hours, the water coming out of the top of the tank by the
> wood stove was about 70 degrees. (The water from the city going into the
> tank is 40 degrees F.) At this point the bottom of the tank felt cold and
> the top was not cold.
>
> The next morning, the entire tank was slightly warm.
>
> Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my hot water heater. So
> instead of my water heater having to heat up 40 degree water, it will only
> need to heat up water which will be from 70-80 degrees. Perhaps warmer if I
> have the woodstove going full blast and have not used any hot water for a
> while. So should save some $$ on my electric bill.
>
> Building code note: Now that I see this idea works, I'm going to install the
> tank next to my woodstove to "code"* like a water heater tank would be. That
> is drip pan, T&P valve, and strapped to wall for earthquakes. *I don't
> suppose code covers anything like this? I also installed a valve and pipe to
> outside for draining the tank.
>
> Temperature and "steam" note: The temperature next to my woodstove never
> gets above 115 degrees F. and water boils at 212 degrees. So no possibility
> of steam being created.
>
>

A friend decided to run the inlet water for his water heater past the
wood stove. Rather than having a tank there, he just ran a loop from
just before the heater inlet to the wood stove, created a
back-and-forth arrangement of copper pipe and elbows to fit the back
side of the stove and then back to the water heater. In the winter,
when the stove is running, the water gets pre-heated. In the summer,
it absorbs a little ambient temperature.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 11:38 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:16:55 GMT, "Lee K" <lee_keedick@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:654bunF2e2n0aU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>> my > hot water heater????
>>
>
>Just curious: why is it that you want to heat hot water?
>
Because water that doesn't contain heat is ice.

Besides, he said: "Anyway I am now "pre-heating" the water going to my
hot water heater."

If it is pre-heated, then the water heater IS a hot water heater,
smartass.

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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 7:23 am
From: max

In article <47ec3816$0$6138$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I bet he's not listening. He's also spammed a bunch of other groups, and
> I've lampooned him there, too. He's never replied to me.

I guess mormons aren't big on Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness.
Perhaps the 10 commandments only apply between fellow mormons? How very
islamofacist of you.

You are credit to your faith, and an example to us all.

.max

>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
>

www.lds.org

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 7:43 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

TinyURL was created!
The following URL:

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=32c41b08f338

c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=828e1
2ca67c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1

has a length of 157 characters and resulted in the following TinyURL which
has a length of 25 characters:

http://tinyurl.com/38tdy9

b. He is God (John 1:1). Explain that when we speak of God, we usually
refer to Heavenly Father. However, "the personage known as Jehovah in Old
Testament times . is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, . who is also a God.
Jesus works under the direction of the Father. . Many of the things that the
scripture says were done by God were actually done by . Jesus" (Bible
Dictionary, "God," 681).

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OM5Hj.3471$EJ2.1009@trndny03...

john 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God.

not A god, just God. same entity; different manifestation.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 7:41 am
From: "mart2306@hotmail.com"

On 28 Mar, 13:50, "Gazz" <n...@m.ta> wrote:
> "Sal_55" <zaman_2...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:119fc276-0fe7-4985-b09b-681627718563@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> Sorry for sounding so damn lazy,but what I'd really like is to have
> some pharmaceuticals injected into me, and then in 5 weeks time, I can
> go to the Clinical research companies headquarters and have the
> necessary blood tests, and be paid.
>
> ------------
>
> Maybe try this the other way round... get a stock of 'pharmaceuticals'
> delivered to your house, then invite people in to have them injected into
> them for money?.
>
> the bloke next door to me seems to make a good living doing this (allegedly)
>
> that seems like the only home business that makes lots of money fast
> nowadays :(

Or for those with a webcam, performing on some of the adult sites or
creating movies for those sites.......

Martin <><

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 10:21 am
From: Anthony Matonak

mart2306@hotmail.com wrote:
> On 28 Mar, 13:50, "Gazz" <n...@m.ta> wrote:
...
>> Maybe try this the other way round... get a stock of 'pharmaceuticals'
>> delivered to your house, then invite people in to have them injected into
>> them for money?.
...
>> that seems like the only home business that makes lots of money fast
>> nowadays :(
>
> Or for those with a webcam, performing on some of the adult sites or
> creating movies for those sites.......

There are plenty of illegal businesses one can run from home.
Growing plants, prostitution, making copies of movies and music,
cloning cell phones, printing false documents and IDs and so on.

Anthony

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 7:58 am
From: The Master

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008, Why fatties are insane wrote:

> There isn't room for fatties in the justice system. All fatty felons
> should be put to work in chain gangs picking up trash, mowing highway
> medians or cleaning slaughterhouses. If fatties worked their fair
> share, we wouldn't need mexicans.

And if trolls blow their hot hair into wind power generators, the US could
abandon fossil fuels.

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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:45 am
From: "susi40002@googlemail.com"

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== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 8:46 am
From: "One Varadero....theres only one Varadero...."

On 28 Mar, 16:45, "susi40...@googlemail.com"
<susi40...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> billige fluege ibiza billig reise ibiza billigflug ibiza flug berlin
> nach ibiza billigflug stuttgart ibiza ibiza reise flug fluege
> frankfurt nach ibiza flug basel ibiza flug toronto ibiza billig reisen
> ibiza billigfluege ibiza flug duesseldorf ibiza flug von london nach
> ibiza flug von frankfurt nach ibiza billigflug muenchen ibiza
>
> .
> .
> .http://xd03.com/flugibiza/http://xd03.com/flugibiza/http://xd03.com/flugibiza/http://xd03.com/flugibiza/
> .
> .http://xd03.com/flugibiza/http://xd03.com/flugibiza/http://xd03.com/flugibiza/http://xd03.com/flugibiza/
> .
> .
> .http://billigflug-nach-ibiza.billig-flug-weltweit.info/http://billigflug-nach-ibiza.billig-flug-weltweit.info/billiger-flug-...http://billigflug-nach-ibiza.billig-flug-weltweit.info/billig-fliegen...http://billigflug-nach-ibiza.billig-flug-weltweit.info/guenstiger-flu...
> .
> .
> .
>
> ibiza flug angebot last minute flug ibiza flug zuerich ibiza flug
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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:18 am
From: Lister

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:46:43 -0700 (PDT), "One Varadero....theres only
one Varadero...." <michaelnewport@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On 28 Mar, 16:45, "susi40...@googlemail.com"
><susi40...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> billige fluege ibiza billig reise ibiza billigflug ibiza flug berlin
>> nach ibiza billigflug stuttgart ibiza ibiza reise flug fluege
>> frankfurt nach ibiza flug basel ibiza flug toronto ibiza billig reisen
>> ibiza billigfluege ibiza flug duesseldorf ibiza flug von london nach
>> ibiza flug von frankfurt nach ibiza billigflug muenchen ibiza
>>

Scorchio!

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:01 am
From: susi40007@googlemail.com

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 9:24 am
From: Dennis

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:32:32 GMT, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
<derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:47ec7ec5$0$17354$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>> dh says there may be a problem with ntsc boxes. something about being
>>> able to record only the show you're watching.
>>
>> First of all, I assume you are talking about a digital television
>> tuner box. These are actually digital to analog converters, not
>> the other way around, and they have a tuner in them as well.
>>
>> Second, it is likely that the box will only be able to tune in one
>> program at a time, especially since as far as I know, all the boxes
>> have only one output of each type.
>>
>> This doesn't mean you'll only be able to record the show you're
>> watching. You just need a tuner for every program you want to
>> tune in at a single time. If you're going to tune in one program
>> to watch it and another program to record it, you'll naturally
>> need two tuners. I don't think I'd call that a problem, though;
>> it's just what the boxes are: tuners that tune in one program
>> at a time.
>
>so if you have one of those converter boxes and an analog tv set,
>what can you record? just the station you're watching, right? 'cause
>you won't have the ability to tune in another one?
>

If you have one of those converter boxes and an analog tv set, you
can't record anything. You also need a recording device. If the
recording device has its own ATSC (digital) tuner, you can tune and
record a different program. If the recording device has ony an NTSC
(analog) tuner, yes, you would need another converter box to tune a
different station/program than you are watchng live.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

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== 1 of 1 ==
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From: gabi40011@googlemail.com

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 28 2008 10:38 am
From: نسمة ايمان

What does 'Islam' mean? Islam is not a new religion, but the same
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'Mohammadanism' is thus a misnomer because it suggests that Muslims
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alike.

Islam is not Just for Arabs. The Truth of Islam is meant for all
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message for all of mankind --- not to mention the fact that
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