Frugal Living: Sep 1, 2007

Saturday, September 1, 2007

25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "10 things you should never buy used"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e741d8c5dc391bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 12:41 am
From: "aesthete8@hotmail.com"

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/FindDealsOnline/10ThingsYouShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 2:32 am
From: "Rod Speed"

aesthete8@hotmail.com wrote:

> http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/FindDealsOnline/10ThingsYouShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx

Mindlessly silly, particularly on that 'should never' claim.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 5:48 am
From: et472@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael Black)

"aesthete8@hotmail.com" (aesthete8@hotmail.com) writes:
> http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/FindDealsOnline/10ThingsYouShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx
>

Has it changed since the last time you posted this?

Take note that anyone who can't actually post anything coherent, but
can post a link, is merely a spammer to me.

Michael

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 5:59 am
From: George

Michael Black wrote:
> "aesthete8@hotmail.com" (aesthete8@hotmail.com) writes:
>> http://ticles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingDebt/FindDealsOnline/10ThingsYouShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx
>>
>
> Has it changed since the last time you posted this?
>
> Take note that anyone who can't actually post anything coherent, but
> can post a link, is merely a spammer to me.
>
> Michael
>
>

Same here. A link without any effort by the poster to describe what it
is and why it may be of interest is just rude.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 8:20 am
From: "Daniel T."

"aesthete8@hotmail.com" <aesthete8@hotmail.com> wrote:

> http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/FindDealsOnline/10ThingsYou
> ShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx
[From the article]

Of the ten items, 4 are personal electronics (Laptops, Plasma TVs, DVD
players, & Camcorders.) Personal electronics are generally disposable
items in any case. Although I disagree with the article when it comes to
laptops, many people will want to get rid of one long before its useful
life is over. The silliest part of the article is that they actually
recommend that you buy an extended warranty with these items!

Two of the items are safety equipment (Car seats and helmets [bicycle
and motorcycle].) In both cases, they say you should buy new because
used ones might have been in an accident. However, most used car seats
have *not* been in an accident and the ones that were in an accident are
easy to detect. I can't say much about helmets.

Three are items that spend a lot of time next to your skin (Shoes, Wet
Suits, and Mattresses.) I buy shoes and mattresses new because the cost
is quite low (shoes run me less than $30 and last over 5 years,
mattresses cost less than $200 and last 10 years.) However, the articles
reasoning has nothing to do with cost, they make silly comments like
"Think of all the stuff you do on your mattress. Now think of sleeping
in someone else's stuff. Ewwwww." Of course most people consider it a
real pleasure to stay at a hotel on vacation... Think of all the stuff
you do in a hotel... *on the mattress*.

The last item on the list is "Vacuum cleaners". There is almost nothing
to an upright vacuum to break, yet the article says to buy new because
they are "prone to abuse" and new ones can be had for less than $100. I
tend to buy vacuums new simply because they are so cheap (I get the $40
ones which last me 5+ years,) but if I didn't have the $40, things might
be different.

--
To be truly happy, a man must live absolutely in the present, no thought of
what has gone before and no thought of what lies ahead. But, for a life of
meaning, a man in condemned to wallow in the past and obsess about the future.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 8:27 am
From: Dennis

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 08:59:08 -0400, George <george@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>Michael Black wrote:
>> "aesthete8@hotmail.com" (aesthete8@hotmail.com) writes:
>>> http://ticles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingDebt/FindDealsOnline/10ThingsYouShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx
>>>
>>
>> Has it changed since the last time you posted this?
>>
>> Take note that anyone who can't actually post anything coherent, but
>> can post a link, is merely a spammer to me.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>
>Same here. A link without any effort by the poster to describe what it
>is and why it may be of interest is just rude.

Of course there are exceptions. For example, if a poster asks a
question, it seems entirely reasonable to respond with a link to a
site that answers the question. Why is any embellishment needed?

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 9:19 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Dennis" <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote...
>>
>>Same here. A link without any effort by the poster to describe what it
>>is and why it may be of interest is just rude.
>
> Of course there are exceptions. For example, if a poster asks a
> question, it seems entirely reasonable to respond with a link to a
> site that answers the question. Why is any embellishment needed?

Another exception is when the subject line is sufficiently descriptive...

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 12:41 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Michael Black wrote
>> aesthete8@hotmail.com (aesthete8@hotmail.com) writes

>>> http://ticles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingDebt/FindDealsOnline/10ThingsYouShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx

>> Has it changed since the last time you posted this?

>> Take note that anyone who can't actually post anything coherent, but can post a link, is merely a spammer to me.

> Same here. A link without any effort by the poster to describe what it is and why it may be of interest is just rude.

The subject is a pretty adequate description of what the article is about.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 12:51 pm
From: James

On Sep 1, 11:20 am, "Daniel T." <danie...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "aesthe...@hotmail.com" <aesthe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/FindDealsOnline/10...
> > ShouldNeverBuyUsed.aspx
>
> [From the article]
>
> Of the ten items, 4 are personal electronics (Laptops, Plasma TVs, DVD
> players, & Camcorders.) Personal electronics are generally disposable
> items in any case. Although I disagree with the article when it comes to
> laptops, many people will want to get rid of one long before its useful
> life is over. The silliest part of the article is that they actually
> recommend that you buy an extended warranty with these items!
>
> Two of the items are safety equipment (Car seats and helmets [bicycle
> and motorcycle].) In both cases, they say you should buy new because
> used ones might have been in an accident. However, most used car seats
> have *not* been in an accident and the ones that were in an accident are
> easy to detect. I can't say much about helmets.
>
> Three are items that spend a lot of time next to your skin (Shoes, Wet
> Suits, and Mattresses.) I buy shoes and mattresses new because the cost
> is quite low (shoes run me less than $30 and last over 5 years,
> mattresses cost less than $200 and last 10 years.) However, the articles
> reasoning has nothing to do with cost, they make silly comments like
> "Think of all the stuff you do on your mattress. Now think of sleeping
> in someone else's stuff. Ewwwww." Of course most people consider it a
> real pleasure to stay at a hotel on vacation... Think of all the stuff
> you do in a hotel... *on the mattress*.
>
> The last item on the list is "Vacuum cleaners". There is almost nothing
> to an upright vacuum to break, yet the article says to buy new because
> they are "prone to abuse" and new ones can be had for less than $100. I
> tend to buy vacuums new simply because they are so cheap (I get the $40
> ones which last me 5+ years,) but if I didn't have the $40, things might
> be different.
>
> --
> To be truly happy, a man must live absolutely in the present, no thought of
> what has gone before and no thought of what lies ahead. But, for a life of
> meaning, a man in condemned to wallow in the past and obsess about the future.

I would think used condoms would top the list. My first lamb skin was
$2.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Worst Buy, Circuit Shitty Reps Push Unnecessary Recovery Discs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23ef57024aa4ed16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 3:30 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <gpdgd3pit26inni1j2a86l6ai78b4ruqjp@4ax.com>,
Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:58:21 GMT, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
> <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >When Ian Griffith of Queens, New York, purchased an HP notebook from a
> >Circuit City store in Brooklyn earlier this year, the salesperson urged him
> >to have the chain's in-store Fire Dog technicians create Windows XP recovery
> >discs in case Griffith needed to reinstall the OS.
> >
> >"I specifically asked if this was something I could do on my own," Griffith
> >says, and the answer was no. The salesperson, Griffith says, insisted that
> >there were only two ways to obtain such discs: have them made at the store
> >for $30, or buy them from HP for nearly twice as much.
> >
> >But the clerk's assertions simply aren't true. Recovery discs are fairly
> >easy to make yourself. And if you don't want to take on the responsibility
> >of burning your own, you can buy them from HP for half what Circuit City
> >charges.
> >
> >In the end, just before handing over his credit card at the cash register,
> >Griffith called a tech-savvy friend, who told him he could make the backup
> >discs himself.
>
> As always, those who don't understand the technology are at the mercy
> of those who do.

Exactly.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I wish I had "Patience" when younger!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1b8d537c0bb04d3a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 4:02 am
From: ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)

In article <5jpf0dFn9vtU1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>Claire <ClaireWillington@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Bill <bill190nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>> I never had a lot of "patience" until I reached my 40's.
>>>> Boy it is paying off big time!
>
>> That is encouraging to know, seeing I'll hit 40 in a few years.
>
>Come to think of it, plenty get more impatient with age.
>
>I know my dad did, particularly once he got past 75.

And woke up to what he had produced? ;-)

Cheers, Phred.

--
ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 12:43 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Phred <ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:
> In article <5jpf0dFn9vtU1@mid.individual.net>, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Claire <ClaireWillington@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Bill <bill190nos...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I never had a lot of "patience" until I reached my 40's.
>>>>> Boy it is paying off big time!
>>
>>> That is encouraging to know, seeing I'll hit 40 in a few years.
>>
>> Come to think of it, plenty get more impatient with age.
>>
>> I know my dad did, particularly once he got past 75.
>
> And woke up to what he had produced? ;-)

Down, boy.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hotel surprises
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2a8502259075190?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 4:07 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <DlKnVvkLI4VM@eisner.encompasserve.org>,
frey@encompasserve.org (Sharon) wrote:

> In article <6ltjc31e3ron3lhkk2kfahpikpt57fgbd7@4ax.com>, Dennis
> <dgw80@hotmail.com> writes:
> > On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:09:20 -0400, "Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>It'd be interesting to hear other stories about excellent customer service
> >>from large national companies. Unfortunately, I don't have any of my own
> >>right at the moment.
> >
>
> [snip]
>
> > me, no charge. I was pleasantly surprised not only that they had a
> > trim part for a 10 year old faucet, but that they would send it to me
> > for free.
>
> About 10 years ago I was working computer support for a county agency.
> I was tasked with installing a printer and CSU/DSU (a type of modem) at a
> remote location. When I plugged the ADTRAN modem into the printer and then
> turned it on, it went *POP*. Fried. Called the ADTRAN people and asked for
> a
> replacment, which they sent. It happened again. The third time I finally
> realized that it was a bizarre dip-switch setting on the printer that sent
> voltage down the *data* cable to the modem - which of course the modem was
> NOT
> expecting. I felt kind of stupid for taking so long to figure it out, but at
> the same time I was extremely impressed with the ADTRNAN people. They
> replaced
> three modems that had been fried by user error (ok, stupidity) with
> no hassle and no hesitation. That's hands-down my BEST customer service
> experience EVER.

The best customer service was when I flew out from the east coast to Las
Vegas with my Apple PowerBook G4 several years ago. About a year prior
to that trip, I was rushing to another flight and just as I took my
backpack with my laptop off my shoulder, the zipper came loose and the
laptop flew several feet and banged into a concrete curb and tumbled on
the ground several times. My heart sank when that happened.

The titanium case was bent and dented to the point where the slot for
the optical drive had to be pried open with a screw drive. It was warped
from left to right, but it started up fine and it worked for the better
part of a year.

The day after I got to Las Vegas, I powered up my G4 laptop in my hotel
room and I got nothing but a white screen with severe pixillation. I
tried power cycling it several times, but that didn't help.

I took the laptop to the Apple store in Las Vegas. A store employee said
it had obviously been damaged and that fixing it at no cost under the
warranty would probably not be approved. I asked them to send the laptop
away for a repair estimate. When I returned home a few days later, the
laptop was waiting for me and it was fully repaired at no cost,
including a new motherboard. I had an extended warranty on it, but I
expected the warranty to be voided by dropping it, but Apple came
through for me and I got another year's worth of use out of it until I
replaced it with a MacBook Pro.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd(Fujian,CHINA),www.shopbb.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/152bfb48166db2ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 5:15 am
From: "shopbb.com"

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.shopbb.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
31

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.shopbb.com
MSN and E-mail: shopbb@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 5:16 am
From: "shopbb.com"

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: best mortgages
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3abeb2e737e9bb37?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 6:21 am
From: jacjon827298@gmail.com

Government loans consist of loans that are in some way guaranteed or
purchased by government owned corporations or organizations. For
instance, GNMA (Government National Mortgage Association) assists in
the financing of urban renewal and housing projects by providing below-
market rates to low income families. GNMA guarantees the payment of
principal and interest on FHA and VA mortgages through its mortgage-
backed securities program. It operates under the Department of
Housing and Urban Development (HUD).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"best mortgages"
http://www.loans.tohelpyou.info/best-mortgages/[ya]100-mortgages.aspx
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

==============================================================================
TOPIC: New Consumer Safety Regulations
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/46619a316bb9e087?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 6:47 am
From: PaPaPeng

Toy and food recalls introduced
By Zhu Zhe (China Daily)
Updated: 2007-09-01 08:23
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-09/01/content_6072802.htm

The country's top quality watchdog on Friday introduced landmark
recall systems that require producers to take back unsafe toys and
foodstuffs.

Chinese children try out toys at a mall in Shanghai, China, Friday
Aug. 31, 2007. [AP]
If producers do not carry out recalls on their own, the government
will order a recall and fine the producers up to three times the value
of the products, according to two regulations published by the General
Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection, and Quarantine
(AQSIQ).

The two regulations, introduced with immediate effect, follow the
introduction of a recall system for defective automobiles in 2005.

Both regulations state that producers must inform the public and
retailers, and report to the quality control authorities if it is
revealed that their products are unsafe. Retailers must immediately
stop selling the products and launch a timely investigation into the
defects or they will face a fine ranging from 1,000 to 50,000 yuan
($132 to $6,600).

Even if the products meet the country's quality safety regulations and
standards, the regulations note that toymakers should still carry out
a recall if their toys are found to be potentially unsafe.

If producers fail to voluntarily recall their products, which then
cause serious public harm, they will have their production licenses
revoked and be subject to criminal charges, according to the
regulations.

Liu Zhaobin, director of the AQSIQ's policy and legislation
department, said the recall systems were designed to strengthen the
State Council Special Regulations on the Safety Supervision and
Administration of Food and Other Products, issued in July.

"Our regulations make it very clear that producers must take the prior
and major responsibilities for preventing and eliminating unsafe
products," he told a press briefing.

Yet the AQSIQ should set up a management system of all recall
information and evaluate the recalls under the regulations.

Liu said the country did recall unsafe food and toys in the past, but
it was done "case by case" without a sound system.

The food and toy recall systems follow the issuing of a draft
regulation on drug recall last month by the State Food and Drug
Administration (SFDA), which stipulated similar recall procedures for
unsafe drugs and medical devices.

The AQSIQ also issued a regulation to standardize the inspection and
quarantine of exported aquatic products.

"As the world's largest aquatic products exporter since 2002, China
needs such a regulation to offer a legal basis for the inspection of
such products," Liu said.

These latest moves follow a spate of safety scares over made-in-China
products. Reports have revealed isolated cases of contaminated food
additives, unsafe toothpaste, seafood and even toys, and sparked
global concern over Chinese products in general.

Premier Wen Jiabao said China would face the problems squarely and
make consistent efforts to improve product quality. However, he also
noted that China did not support media hype and was against trade
protectionism.

Nancy Nord, acting chairwoman of US Consumer Product Safety Commission
(CPSC), also warned on Wednesday against turning a product safety
issue with China into a trade issue.

"I think it will be foolish to turn a safety issue into a trade
issue," she was quoted by Xinhua News Agency as saying.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 8:34 am
From: Dennis

On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:47:44 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Toy and food recalls introduced
>By Zhu Zhe (China Daily)
>Updated: 2007-09-01 08:23
>
>The country's top quality watchdog on Friday introduced landmark
>recall systems that require producers to take back unsafe toys and
>foodstuffs.

However, having laws on the books and actually enforcing them are two
different matters. Witness the illegal immigration issue in the US.

Dennis (evil)
--
What government gives, it must first take away.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal living in the Philadelphia region
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5911fd17e8a940c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 6:56 am
From: plenty560@yahoo.com

A how-to guide. How to not get reamed.

http://home.comcast.net/~plutarch/frugal-philly.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 10:37 am
From: "BeastFish"

> A how-to guide. How to not get reamed.

Don't enter an airport restroom occupied by Senator Craig?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SPAM ME ! petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c93af321ec22cca2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 9:43 am
From: "nathalie buzin"

Hey

Please spam me ! I'm a nice girl, ready for you :-)

petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr
petite-chose-fragile@hotmail.fr

==============================================================================
TOPIC: good new!Celebrate beijing2008 Olympic games.Our company low price sell
shoes =25USD,Nokia N95=250USD. www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/adf101ca2192a7c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 9:57 am
From: fashion-sky@msn.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.fashion-sky.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
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our company supply are as follows:
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Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
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Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
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4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
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6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
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8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
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12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
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95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
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15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.fashion-sky.com
MSN and E-mail: fashion-sky@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BEST customer service I've ever received
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/884e8f01d261e404?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 11:35 am
From: val189

I thought it was about time for a new thread, after having read some
of the good things under the hotel surprises thread. It's too seldom
we can praise a company.

One of mine: I sent for a fan from QVC, and it arrived with a broken
blade. Called cus. svc. and they sent a replacement at no extra
charge and it arrived it seemed in no time via express handling. I
returned the broken fan at their expense and the billing was correct
also. If a huge outfit like QVC can do it, what's the excuse for
these other companies?

Re: hotels. I received an online questionnaire from Best Western, but
there was little room for true complaints. It was merely a rating
survey, from 10 to 1, 10 being excellent. I had filled out the 'guest
comment' form tho, which was in the room.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: High Quality Handbags on Sale!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1fe638691fc7f421?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 12:47 pm
From: Jenius

I just fond out that my favorite bags are on SALE! They have them
listed on their Etsy Shop at discount prices.

Check it out at www.persnickitydesign.etsy.com

I am going to get one of the messenger bags for work.

Does anyone know where I can get GOOD discount shoes?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do men really want a wife like June Cleaver.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6dfcec74a87b8886?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 1 2007 1:49 pm
From: 045056@gmail.com

There has been, and probably always will be, endless debate over what
is a good wife. There is

this article, supposedly from a May 1955 Housekeeping Monthly
magazine, that speaks directly

to this question. There are other sources as well that speak on the
issue. One is from

Aristotle, another is this one about "Do men really want a wife like
June Cleaver." They bring

up some very good points.

source : http://www.goodwife.com/

It is one of those questions that heats up each side of the debate and
truly has a different

answer for each man. What do you want in a wife? Beauty? Brains?
Charm? Home and family

oriented? Strong willed? Independent? Docile? If you write out a list
of the ten things that

you must have in your life partner what would they be? Only you can
decide the answers to this

question.

==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

14 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unbelievable Math Problem
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e34f264cbed3f6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 7:15 pm
From: Jamie

On Aug 31, 6:56 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
> "Jamie" <jann...@ihollister.net> wrote in message
>
> news:1188610248.860858.273190@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Here is a math trick so unbelievable that it will stump you.
>
> > 1. Grab a calculator (you won't be able to do this one in your
> > head).
>
> > 2. Key in the first three digits of your phone number (NOT the
> > area code.)
>
> > 3. Multiply by 80
>
> > 4. Add 1
>
> > 5. Multiply by 250
>
> > 6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number
>
> > 7. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again.
>
> > 8. Subtract 250
>
> > 9. Divide number by 2 - Do you recognize the answer
>
> You don't believe the commutative, associative or distributive laws of math?
> ( ( (nnn * 80) +1 ) 250 + mmmm + mmmm - 250 ) / 2
> ( nnn * 80 * 250 + 250 + mmmm * 2 - 250 ) /2
> ( nnn * 80 * 125 + mmmm )
> nnn *10000 + mmmm
> nnn0000 + mmmm
> nnnmmmm
>
> Don

I didn't know all that. I received the above in an e-mail.

Jamie "I was amazed" Ghione

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 7:16 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jamie <jannghi@ihollister.net> wrote:

> Here is a math trick so unbelievable that it will stump you.

No it wont.

> 1. Grab a calculator (you won't be able to do this one in your head).

Some can.

> 2. Key in the first three digits of your phone number (NOT the area code.)

> 3. Multiply by 80

> 4. Add 1

> 5. Multiply by 250

> 6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number

> 7. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again.

> 8. Subtract 250

> 9. Divide number by 2 - Do you recognize the answer

Complete trivial maths trick that any school kid with a clue knows about.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 8:21 pm
From: "Zemborato"

"Jamie" <jannghi@ihollister.net> wrote in message
news:1188612911.905326.57540@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 31, 6:56 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>> "Jamie" <jann...@ihollister.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1188610248.860858.273190@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Here is a math trick so unbelievable that it will stump you.

>> You don't believe the commutative, associative or distributive laws of
>> math?
>> ( ( (nnn * 80) +1 ) 250 + mmmm + mmmm - 250 ) / 2
>> ( nnn * 80 * 250 + 250 + mmmm * 2 - 250 ) /2
>> ( nnn * 80 * 125 + mmmm )
>> nnn *10000 + mmmm
>> nnn0000 + mmmm
>> nnnmmmm
>>
>> Don
>
> I didn't know all that. I received the above in an e-mail.
>
> Jamie "I was amazed" Ghione

Math is amazing. Once you know what the magician knows, it isn't magic any
more.

Zem 2.01
------------------
I'm not annoying you, that's just your panties in a wad.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 8:39 pm
From: "jaques augh"

"Jamie" <jannghi@ihollister.net> wrote in message news:1188610248.860858.273190@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Here is a math trick so unbelievable that it will stump you.
>
> 1. Grab a calculator (you won't be able to do this one in your
> head).
>
> 2. Key in the first three digits of your phone number (NOT the
> area code.)
>
> 3. Multiply by 80
>
> 4. Add 1
>
> 5. Multiply by 250
>
> 6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number
>
> 7. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again.
>
> 8. Subtract 250
>
> 9. Divide number by 2 - Do you recognize the answer

My calculator says BOOBS.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 9:10 pm
From: Steven

On Aug 31, 9:39 pm, "jaques augh" <c...@baby.com> wrote:
> "Jamie" <jann...@ihollister.net> wrote in messagenews:1188610248.860858.273190@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > Here is a math trick so unbelievable that it will stump you.
>
> > 1. Grab a calculator (you won't be able to do this one in your
> > head).
>
> > 2. Key in the first three digits of your phone number (NOT the
> > area code.)
>
> > 3. Multiply by 80
>
> > 4. Add 1
>
> > 5. Multiply by 250
>
> > 6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number
>
> > 7. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again.
>
> > 8. Subtract 250
>
> > 9. Divide number by 2 - Do you recognize the answer
>
> My calculator says BOOBS.

Once you haff vound de matt-icmatical formula fer vemmem, you musht
DIE!

It's GOD'S LAW und wholly immootable.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 10:19 pm
From: Rick

jaques augh wrote:
>
> "Jamie" <jannghi@ihollister.net> wrote in message news:1188610248.860858.273190@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > Here is a math trick so unbelievable that it will stump you.
> >
> > 1. Grab a calculator (you won't be able to do this one in your
> > head).
> >
> > 2. Key in the first three digits of your phone number (NOT the
> > area code.)
> >
> > 3. Multiply by 80
> >
> > 4. Add 1
> >
> > 5. Multiply by 250
> >
> > 6. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number
> >
> > 7. Add the last 4 digits of your phone number again.
> >
> > 8. Subtract 250
> >
> > 9. Divide number by 2 - Do you recognize the answer
>
> My calculator says BOOBS.

Is the desk lamp saying anything too? Is yes, seek professional help...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: COME ON !!! HOT SELL lates fashion nike jordan sneakers air force ones
dunk sb shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d8107df64c48c4ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 7:33 pm
From: hng6957@hotmail.com

www.21cn-shoes.com
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GOODS.
we are one of the leading company that wholesales and retail brand
products,
Weclome to be in 21cn-shoes.com, all of our products are exclusive(top
quality),
and we are an hoest and real companies offering such a wide variety of
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kobe,nike james,Nike sandle shoes and other brand shoes inc
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Timberland Prada,Lv,4us,Richmond,Ice cream,Diesel,Chanel
D&G,DSQUARED,etc.

2)Jeans of Diesel,Rock&Republic,Seven,red monkey,Evisu,lee,D&G,True
religion,bape,antik,
jack jones,armani,kepasa,apple,bbc,levi's,guess,cocobon
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and cocolulu.

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&G,A&F,Versach,marlbolo.

4)brand handbag with LV,
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welcome to contact with us. www.21cn-shoes.com
email: shoes21cn@yahoo.com
msn: shoes21cn@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Don't use GTC Longdistance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0f75bef6721ccdce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 8:08 pm
From: Wayne Sallee

A while back someone here recommended GTC
long-distance. So I signed up with them. But now I
am telling my experience with them, and recommending
that people not sign up with GTC long-distance.

The following is the e-mail that I just now got
through sending to them:

****************************

Listen, you idiots. I signed up for your long
distance, and you never switched me over to your
service, and then when I called about it I was told
that you needed to verify my information, so I said
ok, and she proceeded to read off some stuff
thinking that I would not notice what was being
said. Then I stopped her, and asked her about the
additional conditions that she was trying to
fast-talk over, and she said that it was a new
policy that was being added. I then told her 3 to 4
times "*I don't want your long distance*". And she
finally said ok.

I have never had your long distance, and I will not
pay you anything for your pathetic scam. If you
charge my credit card, I will have the bank charge
it back. I already called your stupid phone number
once. I am not going to call it again. If you people
are too stupid to know what "I don't want your long
distance" means, then that's your problem.

Also I *will* tell people on the Internet about your
scam.

Wayne Sallee
Wayne@WayneSallee.com

helpline wrote on 8/31/2007 6:48 PM:
> Dear Customer,
>
> Thank you for your email in regards to your GTC
services. For the security
> and verification of the account please call the
Customer Care Center
> regarding cancellation of the account at
1-800-486-4030 and the Customer
> Care Advocate will be happy to assist you.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Helpline@teamgtc.com
> www.gtctelecom.com

> www.mygtc.com

>
> ms
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne Sallee
> To: helpline@teamgtc.com
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 12:53 PM
> Subject: [Fwd: Your myGTC account has been
updated with a new invoice]
>
>
> You had better not charge my credit card, or I'll
have the bank charge it
> back.
>
> Wayne Sallee
> Wayne@WayneSallee.com
>
> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Your
myGTC account has been
> updated with a new invoice
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 12:27:21 -0700
> From: ebills@gtctelecom.com
> To: Wayne@WayneSallee.com
>
>
>
> Your current GTC Telecom Statement for the
billing account number,
>
>
> is available online at

https://www.mygtc.com/statements.asp for your review.
> Your current credit card on file with GTC Telecom
will be automatically
> charged
> on the date specified in your invoice for the
total amount due.
>
> Please do not reply to this email if you require
a response. We are not
> able
> to respond personally to messages sent to this
address. If you require
> assistance, you may contact the myGTC Helpline at
helpline@teamgtc.com.
>
> Thank you for using GTC Telecom Online Account
Services,
>
> GTC Telecom Billing Team
>
>

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale / Sell Gucci Moon Bag @btbsell.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ced13318b6376517?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 9:08 pm
From: sxlyy524@hotmail.com

Louis Vuitton, Fendi SPY Bags, Fendi B bag, Chloe Paddington bags,
Chloe Silverado bags, Chloe Edith Bag, Balenciaga, Goyard, miumiu,
mulberry, prada, Marc Jacobs, Gucci 85th, Dior Gaucho, Jimmy choo,
Gucci, Chanel, YSL, Hermes, Loewe, Versace, Mqueen, Thomaswylde ,

We accept Paypal

www.btbsell.com

MSN: ebaynt@gmail.com

luggages Bottega loewe chloe Fendi LV Gucci Versace YSL
Thomaswylde Mqueen

------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save big time on Your meds.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/808d641516f85a02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 10:01 pm
From: onlineapothecary

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Raymond Karczewski: A Brother and a Troubled Man
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c8031cf73108c89c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 10:07 pm
From: Abraham.Karczewski@googlemail.com

My name is Abraham Karczewski, brother of internationally known writer
Raymond Karczewski, an intelligent although troubled man who has
chosen to estrange himself from his family all in the divisive name of
a bizarre religion that he pieced together to help him cope with
various issues that have ravaged his ability to think rationally.

I apologize for airing our dirty laundry in public newsgroups but I
have no where to turn other than places I have learned that he reads.
It it my hope that he will find and read this email, then respond to
me privately. This is not material for public disclosure, yet public
disclosure is the only avenue left for me to appeal to my own flesh
and blood for honest discourse and open dialog.

Ray has been haunted for decades by his sexual inclinations and the
religion he has invented has been pieced together in such a way as to
not only rationalize, but also mandate alternative lifestyles such as
homosexuality, pedophilia, and bestiality.

Mind you, I have no quarrel with homosexuality, my quarrel is with a
man who would manufacture a religion which through scriptural mandate,
coerces it's members to engage in same-sex liaisons. This does not
conform to any contemporary definition of "consent." Nevertheless,
Ray's various writings on the subject go into disturbing detail to
describe what he defines as "holy rituals of the flesh" with other
men.

Ray goes on to prescribe constituencies for his congregations,
specifically, temples of 144 members (36 men, 36 women, 36 boys, and
36 girls) with the minors described as "virginal children." He also
demands constant perfection, that these numbers are to never
fluctuate. He states that he shall embark upon daily "divine
journeys" to "enjoin himself" with these virginal children. Here is a
perfect example of one of his logical flaws; once he has "enjoined
himself" with one of those children, they are no longer virginal. He
makes no provision in his religion for these children from whom he has
just taken their virginity, then says nothing toward the fluctuation
in his mandated demographic.

Equally distasteful is his "Ritual of the Range" which requires the
use of a horse, donkey, or mule as a sexual partner. He has forced
his ex-wife Anita to engage in this ritual with a donkey at a nearby
stud farm on at least a dozen different occasions according to the
criminal complaint that resulted from the divorce. The ritual is
supposed to teach humility and submission, the animal is a metaphor
for Ray as a "LIVING GOD." Unfortunately, the donkey that was used by
Anita was physically too large for her body and she frequently
required stitches to close tears in her vagina. To this day, she
cannot engage in sexual behavior due to the extensive damage to her
anatomy.

Anita finally filed for divorce when Ray demanded she service his
entire Klavern. Ray, in case you didn't know, is the Supreme Grand
Dragon in the Portland Klavern which is a group of ku klux klansmen
who are currently involved in planning security for a white power
gathering called "Hammerfest 07" scheduled to occur in that city this
October.

As you can see, Ray is a troubled man. He has been suffering from
schizophrenia since early adulthood, his brain is also ravaged by
syphilis which he contracted from poultry he molested as a child on a
neighbor's farm. My niece Kasia and I succeeded in having him
committed to the psychiatric facility in Salem for a week but after he
was stabilized last month, he was released and immediately went off
his medication.

I ask for public assistance in locating Raymond, possibly even
observing him and reporting findings to local mental health concerns.
Ray is a danger to himself and others and I fear for my brother's
life.

Ray, if you are reading this and you wish to discuss these matters
privately, then email me at abraham.karczewski@googlemail.com. Until
you make a good faith effort to contact me, I will continue to seek
assistance in these public venues under the assumption you have not
yet read my post.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Aug 31 2007 10:17 pm
From: Ray Karczewski

Abraham.Karczewski@googlemail.com said in news:1188623261.670654.276410
@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

<snip>
> Ray, if you are reading this and you wish to discuss these matters
> privately, then email me at abraham.karczewski@googlemail.com. Until
> you make a good faith effort to contact me, I will continue to seek
> assistance in these public venues under the assumption you have not
> yet read my post.

Don't worry about it..............you asshole.

Love,

Ray

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