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Today's topics:
* Another good weekend of cheap finds - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e4b88c1d8c6eb66?hl=en
* 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers! - 15 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
* supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
* st Nicholas vs "Santa" was How Odin Became Santa Claus: Symbolism and Pagan
Origins of a Gift-Giving Saint - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/915677537a9d5af4?hl=en
* Is keeping a car 50 years frugal? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/973c7ade053ebb0f?hl=en
* Why not a holiday from auto buying? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
* Immigration causes wages to go down.... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9bbd784c226f8d99?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another good weekend of cheap finds
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e4b88c1d8c6eb66?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 8:11 am
From: meow2222@care2.com
Seerialmom wrote:
> The other big score of the day was a Dyson vacuum in perfectly good
> working condition I found at the Goodwill for....drumroll please....
> $25! Sweet. I tested it there (it had dirt in the canister which I
> dumped and revacuumed up). My daughter was often borrowing mine so my
> plan as to give this one to her :)
Unfortunately those are too unreliable to ever be frugal, even at that
price.
NT
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 9:11 am
From: Dave Garland
Forrest wrote:
> Every time that I've gone to a Goodwill store, I've only seen junk for a low
> price ... anything else, they want as much as it would cost new at K-Mart,
> Target or WallMart.
Yeah, sometimes the prices are too high. But around here they've got
one day a week (Monday) when all items with a particular color tag are
$1.49. I have purchased (working) laser printers that way. A couple
of the other thrift chains (Savers and Unique) have "old people day"
on Tuesdays, at Savers everything is 40% off then if you're over 55.
Best deal there recently was an Olympus microcassette recorder, new
enough so it still had the advertising stickers on it, marked $1, so
it cost me $0.60. It's not as fancy as my Sony, but the audio is
actually clearer.
Dave
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 3:55 pm
From: "Bob F"
"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1%m%k.7095$W06.2954@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Seerialmom" <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:26d48682-85d9-4a83-a178-7d92f42b86bc@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
>> Yesterday was great! In the local paper they had another $20 off $100
>> purchase at Raley's (chain in most of Calif.). Figured I'd go early
>> today while it's quiet; however anything I get must be 1. needed and
>> 2. a better price than I can get elsewhere. Not as easy since they
>> aren't a discount store. But combining loss leaders and coupons
>> should work.
>>
>> The other big score of the day was a Dyson vacuum in perfectly good
>> working condition I found at the Goodwill for....drumroll please....
>> $25! Sweet. I tested it there (it had dirt in the canister which I
>> dumped and revacuumed up). My daughter was often borrowing mine so my
>> plan as to give this one to her :)
>
> Every time that I've gone to a Goodwill store, I've only seen junk for a low
> price ... anything else, they want as much as it would cost new at K-Mart,
> Target or WallMart.
It may depend on the pricers at that store, but you also have to consider that
bargains go quick. You have to browse there frequently to get the bargains. The
non-bargains last a long time. If you only go there infrequently, your chances
go down.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 8:39 am
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why haven't you jumped on the gravy train, if it's such a cushy job?
>>>>>> Can't cut it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Never considered it when I was younger. It would be a serious
>>>>> consideration if I was entering college today.
>>>>
>>
>> ----But, you would be making considerably less than 60k a
>> year...probably about half that....
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My brother switched to a teaching career when he was about forty.
>>>>> He thoroughly enjoys those 12 week summer vacations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---except for the fact you don't get paid for the "summer
>>>> vacations"....teachers are paid for 10 months....
>>>>
>>>> as well as the extra
>>>>
>>>>> holiday and mid winter breaks. He admits the job has its ups and
>>>>> downs, but it's primarily the administration rather than the kids
>>>>> that are the problem. Nevertheless, he has claims to have no
>>>>> regrets dumping the 40+ hr corporate job. If nothing else, his
>>>>> job will never be out source,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----If the tax base falls it will....
>>>>
>>>> plus the health and retirement benefits are outstanding.
>>>>
>>>> -----Really? He started at forty, he'll get full retirement at 70?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course it won't be a full pension, but considering how few
>>> companies even have pensions anymore (or have significantly reduced
>>> them), it's a moot point..
>>
>>
>> ---There once was a fox, strolling through a vineyard......
---Aesop's Fables......a famous one.....
>
>
> I'm not sure what that means, but his previous job had no pension, so
> the teacher's pension (no matter how large) is gravy. I don't know the
> specifics of his pension, but most grant pensions at age 60-65
> regardless of years service.
------Not full pensions...he may be vested after 10 years and receive a
partial pension.
== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 8:41 am
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>> George wrote:
>>
>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why haven't you jumped on the gravy train, if it's such a cushy job?
>>>>>> Can't cut it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Never considered it when I was younger. It would be a serious
>>>>> consideration if I was entering college today.
>>>>>
>>>>> My brother switched to a teaching career when he was about forty.
>>>>> He thoroughly enjoys those 12 week summer vacations
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---except for the fact you don't get paid for the "summer
>>>> vacations"....teachers are paid for 10 months....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure they do.
>>
>>
>> ----No, they don't. They are 10 month employees. They get paid over
>> the summer months if they have their 10 month pay divided evenly over
>> 12 months...the summer months are *not* paid vacation days.
>
>
> So how is that different from a 52 week salary with 5 weeks vacation?
> (Other than an extra seven weeks off.)
>
----What's the difference between being paid for a day and not? The
summer months are not paid, if you don't budget for them, you don't get
paid for two months...
== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 8:42 am
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In PA the union teachers have an ultra deluxe Blue Cross health
>>>>>>> plan that was crafted especially just for them. There is zero
>>>>>>> possibility for out of pocket expense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---They don't pay premiums for their families?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not much around here. Full family coverage was 100% covered until
>>>>> recent years, but now they are paying about 5%.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----I find that hard to believe....I have the same plan as the
>>>> teachers and my premium's around $650 month....plus deductibles for
>>>> any hospital stays...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RI has 36 school districts- "33 of the state's 36 districts required
>>> some form of cost sharing"
>>>
>>> "In the 2006-2007 school year, three districts — East Providence, New
>>> Shoreham and Pawtucket — still did not require teachers to pay a cent
>>> toward their health premium, which cost taxpayers an average of
>>> $13,500 for a family plan and $5,200 for an individual plan
>>> statewide". "In contrast, teachers in Barrington and Coventry paid 15
>>> percent last year — or about $2,000 a year for a family plan."
>>>
>>> "Last year, teachers in 17 districts paid less than $1,000 a year
>>> toward their family plan. Teachers in 20 districts paid $540 a year
>>> or less for individual coverage."
>>>
>>
>> ---In Miami Dade, the 4th largest district nationally, I pay a family
>> rate of over $2K a year.....and 20% of any hospital costs....we have
>> the same plan as teachers....
>
>
> You claimed it was hard to believe full coverage was common until recent
> years and about 5% is common.
----For employees only, not families as well....'
As noted in my referenced quotes, it's
> typical around here for teachers with a statewide average salary of
> about $60k to be paying only about $500 - $1000 / yr for premium
> coverage where many still pay none. That's about 5% overall (plus
> copayments). Statewide, non government workers here tend to pay 15 -
> 20% of their premiums, similar to what you are reporting. If a teacher
> has a spouse with separate family medical insurance, they can receive a
> sizable payment for non subscription.
== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 8:45 am
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>>
>> ----Depends what they're grading.....let's say 5 periods a day, 30
>> students per period, that's 150 students a day.....do you think you
>> could read 150 essays in an hour? Along with gradebooks and calls to
>> parents of discipline problems? And, not all teachers have a planning
>> period, some have 6 periods a day.....
>>
> and most every teacher today has an aid - something unheard about 30
> years ago.
----Nope. Can't afford them here, para-pros are mostly a thing of the
past in this economy...
Furthermore, no teacher is receiving 150 essays every day -
> most likely not even per week.
---Depends what they teach and at what level. Have you ever taught?
>
> 4-5 classes per day is more common around here.
-----And....5 classes with 30 students per class is how many essays? I
see you neglected to mention gradebooks, lesson plans, calling parents.....
== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 8:48 am
From: suds macheath
George wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>>
>> -----Sounds a little like sour grapes to me.....teachers are stealing
>> our money! Maybe you need to sub for a week, get a little experience....
>> I'm betting you go home with a splitting headache most days....
>
> As I said I am starting the facts. No different than stating the price
> of a meal or the price of a car. I never claimed that they don't work.
> But there is nothing uniquely stressful about what they do and in a lot
> of cases it just isn't a bad job. I have multiple relatives and friends
> who are teachers and privately they will admit that it isn't a bad job.
> They officially have to whine and complain because that is part of being
> a unionized worker.
>
> Try having a responsible position where you have to deal with multiple
> clients and issues where you have to work until done and you just don't
> get to walk away from it all and go home at 3 o'clock when the bell
> rings and you will know what stress can be.
>
>
>
>>
>> ---The summer months are not paid vacation days....
>>
>>
> Call it anything you like but in my state the public school teachers get
> a salary that is typically paid weekly.
----Bi-weekly...
So if you have a job that allows
> you to not show up for 12 weeks and be paid what is this typically
> called?
----You are paid if you budget your 10 month pay to cover the 2 months
the schools are closed.
Or say two folks with similar credentials have $75,000 jobs. One
> is a teacher and the other works in private industry.
----The teacher is better paid than the other...they are making $75k for
10 months work.
The teacher has 12
> weeks that year to do as they please and the person in the private
> company has two weeks to do as they please all for the same salary. What
> is this time someone gets paid and gets to do as they please normally
> called?
== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 9:02 am
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>> suds macheath wrote:
>>
>>> George wrote:
>>>
>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why haven't you jumped on the gravy train, if it's such a cushy
>>>>>>> job?
>>>>>>> Can't cut it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never considered it when I was younger. It would be a serious
>>>>>> consideration if I was entering college today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My brother switched to a teaching career when he was about
>>>>>> forty. He thoroughly enjoys those 12 week summer vacations
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---except for the fact you don't get paid for the "summer
>>>>> vacations"....teachers are paid for 10 months....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure they do.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----No, they don't. They are 10 month employees. They get paid over
>>> the summer months if they have their 10 month pay divided evenly
>>> over 12 months...the summer months are *not* paid vacation days.
>>
>>
>>
>> So how is that different from a 52 week salary with 5 weeks
>> vacation? (Other than an extra seven weeks off.)
>>
>
> ----What's the difference between being paid for a day and not? The
> summer months are not paid, if you don't budget for them, you don't
> get paid for two months...
Hopefully school teachers in your area are not a dense as you are.
== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 9:05 am
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>> suds macheath wrote:
>>
>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>
>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why haven't you jumped on the gravy train, if it's such a cushy
>>>>>>> job?
>>>>>>> Can't cut it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never considered it when I was younger. It would be a serious
>>>>>> consideration if I was entering college today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> ----But, you would be making considerably less than 60k a
>>> year...probably about half that....
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My brother switched to a teaching career when he was about
>>>>>> forty. He thoroughly enjoys those 12 week summer vacations
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---except for the fact you don't get paid for the "summer
>>>>> vacations"....teachers are paid for 10 months....
>>>>>
>>>>> as well as the extra
>>>>>
>>>>>> holiday and mid winter breaks. He admits the job has its ups and
>>>>>> downs, but it's primarily the administration rather than the kids
>>>>>> that are the problem. Nevertheless, he has claims to have no
>>>>>> regrets dumping the 40+ hr corporate job. If nothing else, his
>>>>>> job will never be out source,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----If the tax base falls it will....
>>>>>
>>>>> plus the health and retirement benefits are outstanding.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Really? He started at forty, he'll get full retirement at 70?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Of course it won't be a full pension, but considering how few
>>>> companies even have pensions anymore (or have significantly reduced
>>>> them), it's a moot point..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---There once was a fox, strolling through a vineyard......
>>
>
> ---Aesop's Fables......a famous one.....
>
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what that means, but his previous job had no pension, so
>> the teacher's pension (no matter how large) is gravy. I don't know
>> the specifics of his pension, but most grant pensions at age 60-65
>> regardless of years service.
>
>
> ------Not full pensions...he may be vested after 10 years and receive
> a partial pension.
Obviously you don't understand pensions. Hint - one does not need to
work 30 years to have a "full" pension. Most pension plans are based
on a combination of years worked and age of retirement.
Are all teachers in your area a s dense as you are?
== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 9:10 am
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>> suds macheath wrote:
>>
>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>
>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In PA the union teachers have an ultra deluxe Blue Cross health
>>>>>>>> plan that was crafted especially just for them. There is zero
>>>>>>>> possibility for out of pocket expense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---They don't pay premiums for their families?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not much around here. Full family coverage was 100% covered until
>>>>>> recent years, but now they are paying about 5%.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----I find that hard to believe....I have the same plan as the
>>>>> teachers and my premium's around $650 month....plus deductibles
>>>>> for any hospital stays...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> RI has 36 school districts- "33 of the state's 36 districts
>>>> required some form of cost sharing"
>>>>
>>>> "In the 2006-2007 school year, three districts — East Providence,
>>>> New Shoreham and Pawtucket — still did not require teachers to pay
>>>> a cent toward their health premium, which cost taxpayers an average
>>>> of $13,500 for a family plan and $5,200 for an individual plan
>>>> statewide". "In contrast, teachers in Barrington and Coventry paid
>>>> 15 percent last year — or about $2,000 a year for a family plan."
>>>>
>>>> "Last year, teachers in 17 districts paid less than $1,000 a year
>>>> toward their family plan. Teachers in 20 districts paid $540 a year
>>>> or less for individual coverage."
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---In Miami Dade, the 4th largest district nationally, I pay a
>>> family rate of over $2K a year.....and 20% of any hospital
>>> costs....we have the same plan as teachers....
>>
>>
>>
>> You claimed it was hard to believe full coverage was common until
>> recent years and about 5% is common.
>
>
> ----For employees only, not families as well....'
and as I pointed out, they are for family - not simply the individual.
Hello - as noted, most here pay less than $1000 /yr for their $13,500
FAMILY insurance, although in two districts, they do pay 15% for FAMILY
coverage. Teachers in the two largest districts pay NOTHING for
family coverage. The average statewide is about 5% vs. about 20% for
the average non government worker in this area.
Are all teachers in your area as dense as you are?
== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 9:13 am
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>
>> suds macheath wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ----Depends what they're grading.....let's say 5 periods a day, 30
>>> students per period, that's 150 students a day.....do you think you
>>> could read 150 essays in an hour? Along with gradebooks and calls to
>>> parents of discipline problems? And, not all teachers have a
>>> planning period, some have 6 periods a day.....
>>>
>> and most every teacher today has an aid - something unheard about 30
>> years ago.
>
>
> ----Nope. Can't afford them here, para-pros are mostly a thing of the
> past in this economy...
>
> Furthermore, no teacher is receiving 150 essays every day -
>
>> most likely not even per week.
>
>
> ---Depends what they teach and at what level. Have you ever taught?
I have not. My wife did for several years.
>>
>> 4-5 classes per day is more common around here.
>
>
> -----And....5 classes with 30 students per class is how many essays? I
> see you neglected to mention gradebooks, lesson plans, calling
> parents.....
and how hard is it to grade 30 essays by 5th graders? How many times /
day do teachers call parents?
I'm beginning to believe you have no idea as to what you are reporting.
== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 1:34 pm
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>> George wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why haven't you jumped on the gravy train, if it's such a cushy
>>>>>>>> job?
>>>>>>>> Can't cut it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Never considered it when I was younger. It would be a serious
>>>>>>> consideration if I was entering college today.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My brother switched to a teaching career when he was about
>>>>>>> forty. He thoroughly enjoys those 12 week summer vacations
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---except for the fact you don't get paid for the "summer
>>>>>> vacations"....teachers are paid for 10 months....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure they do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----No, they don't. They are 10 month employees. They get paid over
>>>> the summer months if they have their 10 month pay divided evenly
>>>> over 12 months...the summer months are *not* paid vacation days.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So how is that different from a 52 week salary with 5 weeks
>>> vacation? (Other than an extra seven weeks off.)
>>>
>>
>> ----What's the difference between being paid for a day and not? The
>> summer months are not paid, if you don't budget for them, you don't
>> get paid for two months...
>
>
> Hopefully school teachers in your area are not a dense as you are.
>
----I'm not a teacher...and, they are 10 month employees....sorry you
can't grasp the concept.....
== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 1:46 pm
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why haven't you jumped on the gravy train, if it's such a cushy
>>>>>>>> job?
>>>>>>>> Can't cut it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Never considered it when I was younger. It would be a serious
>>>>>>> consideration if I was entering college today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----But, you would be making considerably less than 60k a
>>>> year...probably about half that....
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My brother switched to a teaching career when he was about
>>>>>>> forty. He thoroughly enjoys those 12 week summer vacations
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---except for the fact you don't get paid for the "summer
>>>>>> vacations"....teachers are paid for 10 months....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as well as the extra
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> holiday and mid winter breaks. He admits the job has its ups and
>>>>>>> downs, but it's primarily the administration rather than the kids
>>>>>>> that are the problem. Nevertheless, he has claims to have no
>>>>>>> regrets dumping the 40+ hr corporate job. If nothing else, his
>>>>>>> job will never be out source,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----If the tax base falls it will....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> plus the health and retirement benefits are outstanding.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Really? He started at forty, he'll get full retirement at 70?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course it won't be a full pension, but considering how few
>>>>> companies even have pensions anymore (or have significantly reduced
>>>>> them), it's a moot point..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---There once was a fox, strolling through a vineyard......
>>>
>>
>> ---Aesop's Fables......a famous one.....
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what that means, but his previous job had no pension, so
>>> the teacher's pension (no matter how large) is gravy. I don't know
>>> the specifics of his pension, but most grant pensions at age 60-65
>>> regardless of years service.
>>
>>
>> ------Not full pensions...he may be vested after 10 years and receive
>> a partial pension.
>
>
> Obviously you don't understand pensions. Hint - one does not need to
> work 30 years to have a "full" pension.
----They do here.
Most pension plans are based
> on a combination of years worked and age of retirement.
------No shit? Tell me more, Mr Obvious....
Your imaginary brother won't get the same percentage of his highest pay
level at 10 years service as I will at 30 years service....
> Are all teachers in your area a s dense as you are?
----I'm not a teacher.
I'm so sorry you couldn't get on the public school gravy
train....perhaps a felony case in your past?
== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 1:52 pm
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> clams_casino wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In PA the union teachers have an ultra deluxe Blue Cross health
>>>>>>>>> plan that was crafted especially just for them. There is zero
>>>>>>>>> possibility for out of pocket expense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---They don't pay premiums for their families?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not much around here. Full family coverage was 100% covered until
>>>>>>> recent years, but now they are paying about 5%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----I find that hard to believe....I have the same plan as the
>>>>>> teachers and my premium's around $650 month....plus deductibles
>>>>>> for any hospital stays...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> RI has 36 school districts- "33 of the state's 36 districts
>>>>> required some form of cost sharing"
>>>>>
>>>>> "In the 2006-2007 school year, three districts — East Providence,
>>>>> New Shoreham and Pawtucket — still did not require teachers to pay
>>>>> a cent toward their health premium, which cost taxpayers an average
>>>>> of $13,500 for a family plan and $5,200 for an individual plan
>>>>> statewide". "In contrast, teachers in Barrington and Coventry paid
>>>>> 15 percent last year — or about $2,000 a year for a family plan."
>>>>>
>>>>> "Last year, teachers in 17 districts paid less than $1,000 a year
>>>>> toward their family plan. Teachers in 20 districts paid $540 a year
>>>>> or less for individual coverage."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---In Miami Dade, the 4th largest district nationally, I pay a
>>>> family rate of over $2K a year.....and 20% of any hospital
>>>> costs....we have the same plan as teachers....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You claimed it was hard to believe full coverage was common until
>>> recent years and about 5% is common.
>>
>>
>> ----For employees only, not families as well....'
>
>
> and as I pointed out, they are for family - not simply the individual.
>
> Hello - as noted, most here pay less than $1000 /yr for their $13,500
> FAMILY insurance, although in two districts, they do pay 15% for FAMILY
> coverage. Teachers in the two largest districts pay NOTHING for
> family coverage. The average statewide is about 5% vs. about 20% for
> the average non government worker in this area.
---As I pointed out, here in the 4th largest district in the country,
they *do* pay premiums for family coverage.....
> Are all teachers in your area as dense as you are?
----I'm not a teacher.
I'm so sorry you can't qualify to get on the public school gravy train.
A felony conviction in your past, perhaps?
== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 2:04 pm
From: suds macheath
clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----Depends what they're grading.....let's say 5 periods a day, 30
>>>> students per period, that's 150 students a day.....do you think you
>>>> could read 150 essays in an hour? Along with gradebooks and calls to
>>>> parents of discipline problems? And, not all teachers have a
>>>> planning period, some have 6 periods a day.....
>>>>
>>> and most every teacher today has an aid - something unheard about 30
>>> years ago.
>>
>>
>> ----Nope. Can't afford them here, para-pros are mostly a thing of the
>> past in this economy...
>>
>> Furthermore, no teacher is receiving 150 essays every day -
>>
>>> most likely not even per week.
>>
>>
>> ---Depends what they teach and at what level. Have you ever taught?
>
>
> I have not. My wife did for several years.
----She couldn't take it anymore? But, it's *such* an easy job, with
excellent pay and benefits.....
>
>>>
>>> 4-5 classes per day is more common around here.
>>
>>
>> -----And....5 classes with 30 students per class is how many essays? I
>> see you neglected to mention gradebooks, lesson plans, calling
>> parents.....
>
>
> and how hard is it to grade 30 essays by 5th graders?
---- How about by seniors at Honors or AP levels?
How many times /
> day do teachers call parents?
----Depends on the students and levels. Ever heard the term "helicopter
parents?" Gradebooks, lesson plans.....you keep leaving these out...all
to be done in one hour.....
>
> I'm beginning to believe you have no idea as to what you are reporting.
----I'm beginning to believe you think teachers write on the board for 5
minutes at the beginning of the period and then read the local paper
while the students quietly do their work......
== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 2:09 pm
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
>
> Your imaginary brother won't get the same percentage of his highest
> pay level at 10 years service as I will at 30 years service....
>
Well Duh - What a moron. Reading comprehension problems as well as
dense. You have my sympathy. Bye.
== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 2:15 pm
From: clams_casino
suds macheath wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> ---Depends what they teach and at what level. Have you ever taught?
>>
>>
>>
>> I have not. My wife did for several years.
>
>
> ----She couldn't take it anymore? But, it's *such* an easy job, with
> excellent pay and benefits.....
>
We moved several times for my career, plus she didn't work while the
kids were growing up. Getting certification in different states was
more a bother than it was worth.
Pay for teachers in your backwoods area apparent pays poorly. As I've
pointed out several times (with references) it can be a very good paying
job with benefits not found in standard 40 hr employment, but you
obviously can't grasp anything more than 50 feet from your narrow little
world.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 9:28 am
From: Dennis
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 06:36:50 -0800 (PST), "sgallagher@rogers.com"
<sgallagher@rogers.com> wrote:
>I am a multiple citizen myself, US by birth, British by descent, and
>Canadian by naturalization. I hold passports from all three countries.
I also have dual citizenship. I am a New Zealand citizen by virtue of
being born there and a US citizen by having two US citizen parents who
registered my birth with the US consolate. However, I've never
bothered to get a New Zealand passport.
BTW, all my life, every SS, border, customs and other bureaucrat that
I have encountered has made it a point to tell me that I could never
run for US president since I was not born on US soil (or other special
cases). So if it is not actually the law, it is a very commonly held
notion.
Dennis (evil)
--
What the government gives, it must first take.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 4:45 pm
From: "Daniel T."
"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote:
> > > I'm going by reports that Obama was a citizen of Indonesia and only
> > > Indonesia at some point in his life. If that is true, then...
> >
> > No reason to go past here... First you must prove that is true.
>
> I'm not applying to be President of the U.S. Let someone who wants that job
> do the proving that he's eligible. -Dave
It seems to me that the one making the accusation is the one who needs
to do the proving.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: st Nicholas vs "Santa" was How Odin Became Santa Claus: Symbolism and
Pagan Origins of a Gift-Giving Saint
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/915677537a9d5af4?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 9:32 am
From: pyotr filipivich
I skipped the meeting, but the Memos showed that "James Hatten"
<photonicbandgap@earthlink.net> wrote on Tue, 9 Dec 2008 04:17:27
-0800 in talk.politics.guns :
>More of your Neo-Nazi weirdness again.
And worse of all, he's wrong.
Santa Claus is a corruption of "San Nicolas" - Saint Nicholas.
Nicholas was a wonderworking bishop in the 4th century, and became
associated with gifts for children. The custom was brought to Neuw
Amsterdam by the Dutch, and when the English took over, the custom
continued, and eventually was merged with the celebration of
Christmass.
The contemporary image of a"fat old elf" is based in equal parts
Thomas Nash and Coca-cola advertising. Santa Claus is a "Madison
Avenue" merchandising figure for their annual festival of Mammon.
St Nicholas still brings gifts to good girls and boys. Not to
mention interceding before Almighty God for those who rightly ask.
He's considered the patron saint of Greece, Russia, sailors and
pawnbrokers. Go figure.
tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. "
Lucius Annaeus Seneca, circa 45 AD
(A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.)
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is keeping a car 50 years frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/973c7ade053ebb0f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 11:45 am
From: Dennis
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 21:54:49 -0500, "Daniel T."
<daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I'm not so sure about that. Also remember, it is in Consumer
>> > Reports best interest to inflate the differences in quality
>> > between manufactures. If the came out with a report that said that
>> > all car makes were near the same in quality, no one would need
>> > their magizine anymore.
>>
>> Aren't you the same guy who was railing about conspiracy theories in
>> another thread? Sheesh, PKB.
>
>What's your point?
Just trying to figure out which wild-eyed conspiracy theories are on
your Approved List and which are not.
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 4:51 pm
From: "Daniel T."
Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm not so sure about that. Also remember, it is in Consumer
> > > > Reports best interest to inflate the differences in quality
> > > > between manufactures. If the came out with a report that said
> > > > that all car makes were near the same in quality, no one would
> > > > need their magizine anymore.
> > >
> > > Aren't you the same guy who was railing about conspiracy
> > > theories in another thread? Sheesh, PKB.
> >
> > What's your point?
>
> Just trying to figure out which wild-eyed conspiracy theories are on
> your Approved List and which are not.
What "wild-eyed conspiracy theory" are you talking about? I've sided
with none that I know of.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why not a holiday from auto buying?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 2:05 pm
From: Michael Coburn
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 14:14:47 +0100, Han de Bruijn wrote:
> Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head wrote:
The lies never stop from both sides.
>>>>is dead...Killed by Democrats who bashed our economy into submission
>>>
>>>idiot.
>>
>> Said the apologist bootlicker.
>>
>>>Regulation is the responsibility of The Executive.
The ENFORCEMENT of regulations is the responsibility of the executive
just like the enforcement of law is the responsibility of the executive.
But the regulations are created and repealed by the congress.
>> The executive branch that caused this was Billy.
Actually, it was the Gingrich Republican Congress and Phil Gramm.
>>>It's the Republicans who pushed for deregulation,
>>
>> And then, after seeing they had made a massive mistake, they tried to
>> correct it over and over and over again. [Only to be blocked by
>> Democrats]
I want see some evidence to this blocking by the Democrats of any repeal
of the Gramm-Leech-Biley Act that did away with Glass-Steagall, or any
legislation blocked by Democrats that would have removed the effects of
the Commodity Futures Modernization Act the gave legal certainty that the
Commodity Futures Exchange Commission would not be able to regulate
interest rate swaps and financial insurance futures.
>>>and it's deregulation that gave us this crisis.
>>
>> Thank you billy.
The Commodity Futures Modernization Act was poled into a MUST SIGN
appropriations bill by Phil Gramm at the time Bill Clinton was leaving
office and at a time when a veto was not possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000
Nowhere will you find a more obscene and underhanded act of legerdemain
then in the way this was made into law.
>>>This is a Bush depression.
>>
>> No, you sad apologist bootlicker, clearly this is the Democrat's party.
>> [They knew that if they fucked up the economy good enough DA morons
>> like you, who are largly ignorant of anything to do with politics,
>> would come out in force and vote straight ticket for the party]
Just one lie after another....
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Immigration causes wages to go down....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9bbd784c226f8d99?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Dec 9 2008 4:05 pm
From: hpope@lycos.com
On Dec 9, 12:58 pm, Stray Dog <sdog2...@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> Immigration causes paychecks to get smaller
> Tuesday, April 18, 2006, Wall Street Journal,
> Editorial page (p. A18).
> title: "For a Few Dollars Less" by George
> J. Borjas (the Robert W.Scrivner
> Professor of Economics and Social Policy at the Kennedy School Government at
> Harvard).
>
> Quotes and comments:
>
> First paragraph:
> "What happens when immigrants enter the labor market? The 1954 edition of
> Paul Samuelson's influential introductory economics textbook gives the
> common-sense answer:'By keeping labor supply down, immigration policy tends
> to keep wages high'." "Despite the intuition behind Mr. Samuelson's
> conclusion, economists have found it surprisingly difficult to document
> that immigration does, in fact, lower the wage of competing workers." And,
> he goes on to talk about this for several paragraphs. Then, presents his own
> work (with Lawrence Katz, and cited as a 2005 NBER working paper), that he
> has no difficulty at all finding that the immigrant flux
> really does diminish wages.
>
> The last paragraph in his piece is:
>
> "National wage trends confirm the common-sense notion that immigration has
> labor market consequences: A larger pool of competing workers lowers
> relative wages. This does _not_ imply that immigration is a net loss for the
> economy. After all, the wage losses suffered by workers show up as higher
> profits to employers and, eventually, as lower prices to consumers.
> Immigration is just another redistribution program. In the short run, it
> transfers wealth from one group (workers) to another (employers). Whether or
> not such transfers are desirable is one of the central questions in the
> immigration debate."
And this article is about legal workers! What about the 20 million
illegals who are
depressing wages, bankrupting social services, corroding town after
town?
mitch
http://www.numbersusa.com/ Numbers USA
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