Frugal Living: Oct 8, 2008

Wednesday, October 8, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is your MicroWave up to snuff?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56a52aafeb89d1a0?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:17 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 8, 10:26 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Al Bundy wrote:
> >On Oct 7, 5:08 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>
> >>"A 'Nam Veteran" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>The uneven nature of microwave cooking can make it a dangerous
> >>>way to prepare frozen raw foods. When not all of the food is
> >>>heated to a safe temperature, pockets of bacteria can survive
> >>>and sicken people.
>
> >>>Foods that contain raw chicken must be heated to 165 F,
> >>>according to federal guidelines.
>
> >>Is there anyone, anywhere who cooks meat in the microwave? Re-heating
> >>leftovers, sure, but "frozen raw foods"? In a microwave? Who does that?
>
> >Yes, I can cook a 25# turkey in a microwave. It browns and comes out
> >fine if you do it right, generally seven minutes per pound for
> >starters. You have to turn it frequently. You also have to have the
> >right equipment. I prefer a large box with no turntable. The waves are
> >mixed by a motorized stirrer beneath the unit so a turntable is
> >unnecessary. Turntables came about because of uneven stirring from
> >wind generated fans above the box. People became sold on seeing the
> >food turn and marketing took over from there. Most ovens have
> >turntables now. Even with a turn table, an oven can develop hot spots
> >that will almost set food on fire. Even a chocolate chip cookie can
> >smoke up the room with such ovens.
>
> >A good test for even cooking is to place a plastic container of
> >shallow water in the oven and observe the boiling action when it heats
> >up. The bubbles should be even over the entire surface. If all the
> >boiling takes place at one or two points, you are experiencing very
> >uneven cooking. You might not notice it while boiling a cup of water
> >for coffee, but a cake would be a mess and meat might not be fully
> >cooked.
>
> Why would anyone want an essentially steamed turkey when a roasted
> turkey would be superior & much easier to prepare?

Because it's not steamed. It's fully cooked, tender, tastes great, and
is easier to clean up. I have not used an oven in 40 years except if
the kid wants to bake a cake. Each to his own when it comes to food
and preparation.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:57 pm
From: clams_casino

Al Bundy wrote:

>>
>>Why would anyone want an essentially steamed turkey when a roasted
>>turkey would be superior & much easier to prepare?
>>
>>
>
>Because it's not steamed. It's fully cooked, tender, tastes great, and
>is easier to clean up. I have not used an oven in 40 years except if
>the kid wants to bake a cake. Each to his own when it comes to food
>and preparation.
>
>

Microwaves cook by heating the water within the item. The hot water /
steam cooks the item. It's essentially steamed.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:30 pm
From: Al Bundy

clams_casino wrote:
> Al Bundy wrote:
>
> >>
> >>Why would anyone want an essentially steamed turkey when a roasted
> >>turkey would be superior & much easier to prepare?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Because it's not steamed. It's fully cooked, tender, tastes great, and
> >is easier to clean up. I have not used an oven in 40 years except if
> >the kid wants to bake a cake. Each to his own when it comes to food
> >and preparation.
> >
> >
>
> Microwaves cook by heating the water within the item. The hot water /
> steam cooks the item. It's essentially steamed.

Well, that's partly true CC. Actually, microwaves rotate all the
polarized molecules and that includes more then water. It includes
lots of fat molecules too in a turkey. So in a way, it's steamed and
fatted. The thing is, a microwave heats evenly if working properly.
You can achieve various effects by covering or not. I'd prefer steamed
anyway. I know the meat is tender enough to fall off the bones. Dam, I
need to buy a turkey soon.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Depression 2: 2008 - 2012
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b260cd3d2eb87704?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:25 pm
From: Jeff

clams_casino wrote:
> Lou wrote:
>
>> "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1@aioe.org...
>>
>>
>>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time
>>> now they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not
>>> a recession.
>>>
>>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>> admitting that we are in a recession.
>>>
>>
>> A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In
>> spite of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened
>> yet. It seems pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still
>> out.
I'd like to take this off track just a bit.

The US has had a negative savings rate since 2005. Now that was
"acceptable" because people felt wealthy with their homes appreciating
in value, that they felt they had more assets.

Consumer spending is some 70% of our economy, we have been growing the
economy on debt.

So, the question is what will the economy grow on? It can't be
government spending, because any "excess" there is propping up liquidity
and W really screwed the pooch on the deficit. It can't be increased
property values, because they are falling and it can't be increased
wages as wages are flat. It can't be the world, because foreign
investors are looking for real assets.

Jeff

>>
>>
>>
>
> The tax refund this past spring temporarily interrupted the technical
> reading for the recession (two consecutive down quarters), but it's
> quite obvious that was not enough to offset the adverse effects of the
> current financial meltdown. Current quarter is very likely back to a
> decline and many project next quarter will be down as well.
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what
>>> it was a few months ago.
>
> Unlike the previous recession where the tech stocks were the primary
> losses, this year it's been 20-40% losses across the board.
>
>
>
>>> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state it is higher than it
>>> has been in more than 16 years.
>
> September state sales tax receipts here were reported this morning to be
> down 18% vs. last year - similar declines were reported for July and
> August as well.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:24 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 15:25:09 -0400, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:

> I'd like to take this off track just a bit.
>
> The US has had a negative savings rate since 2005. Now that was
>"acceptable" because people felt wealthy with their homes appreciating
>in value, that they felt they had more assets.
>
I think the negative savings began before that.
Hey, there's a poster here who though home "value" translated into
wealth.

>Consumer spending is some 70% of our economy, we have been growing the
>economy on debt.
>
> So, the question is what will the economy grow on? It can't be
>government spending, because any "excess" there is propping up liquidity
>and W really screwed the pooch on the deficit. It can't be increased
>property values, because they are falling and it can't be increased
>wages as wages are flat. It can't be the world, because foreign
>investors are looking for real assets.
>
The answer is magic money, just like the past 10-15 years.

--Vic

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 3:38 pm
From: "clint"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1@aioe.org...
> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
> recession.
>
> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
> admitting that we are in a recession. The Depression word seems to be
> avoided at all costs. Why is that?
>
>
> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
> was a few months ago. Banks are failing. Inflation on food and other
> items has approached 40%. Unemployment is going up and up - in our state
> it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years. Credit is drying up.
> People are losing their houses at an alarming rate. Stock markets are
> plunging worldwide. Everyone is doing their shopping at dollar stores,
> and even the dollar stores are finally raising their prices.
>
> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression. I'm
> not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it is
> going to end up being referred to as such. I've managed a retail
> business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics, plus
> Money & Banking in college. I'm no expert, certainly, but my gut feeling
> at this point after watching everything that has been going on over the
> past year is that this is going to last a while, no matter what the
> government does. We have reached the point where people are going to
> tighten up the belts for a while.
>
> A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time to
> be realists. Time to face the facts.

I think that most of you folks have no idea of what a depression is.
However, it is not your fault. You were probably born after the big one. I
am going to try to give you some idea of how bad a deep depression is. I was
born in the 1920's. The depression started in late 1929. The stock market
completely collapsed. People were jumping out of multi- story office
buildings because they couldn't cope with the fact that they had lost all of
their life savings. Then the run on the banks started. I can remember that
we lived in a cold water flat in Western Pa. My dad worked for the H.C.
Frick Coke Company and was laid off along with hundreds of others. No work,
regardless of the pay could be found. One of my earlier Christmas events was
a Santa gift of a small kids rocking chair and a tree. I don't know where
either one came from. I can remember my dad walking from Tarrs Pa. to Mount
Pleasant Pa., about 4 miles, to get a tooth pulled. He didn't have a nickle
for the street car & couldn't pay the dentist. I also remember my mother
sifting the governmen't surplus flour to remove the worms so she could bake
bread. Pork chops were selling for 4 cents a pound and not many people could
afford them. Families were torn apart and had to get rid of some of their
children to a relative or friend that could aford to feed them. As a
teen-ager things were not much better, but the political rumblings in Europe
in the late 30's resulted in a slow recovery. I don't want to bore you but a
depression is an extremely bad event that should be avoided if at all
possible.
Thanks for listening..............Clint

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:18 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now they have been referring to this mess as a
> "Depression", and not a recession.

They're fools that wouldnt know what a real depression was if it bit them on their lard arses.

> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly admitting that we are in a recession.

There hasnt even been a quarter of negative growth yet, let alone what qualifys for a technical recession.

> The Depression word seems to be avoided at all costs. Why is that?

Because they have enough of a clue to realise what a depression is ?

> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it was a few months ago. Banks are failing.

> Inflation on food and other items has approached 40%.

Like hell they are.

> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state it is higher than it has been in more than 16 years.

Dont believe that.

> Credit is drying up. People are losing their houses at an alarming rate.

Only the fools that were stupid enough to sign up for what they couldnt possibly afford.

> Stock markets are plunging worldwide.

> Everyone is doing their shopping at dollar stores,

Like hell they are.

> and even the dollar stores are finally raising their prices.

Marginally.

> I believe that we have finally entered a second Great Depression.

More fool you. There hasnt even been a single quarter of negative growth yet, let alone even a technical recession.

> I'm not sure exactly what to call it, but looking back on it, I think it is going to end up being referred to as such.

I doubt it.

> I've managed a retail business, and I've taken basic economics, Macro and Micro Economics, plus Money & Banking in
> college. I'm no expert, certainly,

Thats obvious.

> but my gut feeling at this point after watching everything that has been going on over the past year is that this is
> going to last a while, no matter what the government does.

Sure, but we survived the great depression and will survive another if it does come to that.

> We have reached the point where people are going to tighten up the belts for a while.

Yep, lots of mindless neurotics just make a downturn much worse.

> A lot of us are optimists, some of us are pessimists, but it is time to be realists. Time to face the facts.

You wouldnt know what a real fact was if it bit you on your lard arse.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where to find best 'every day' deal on motor oil?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/05c628bc5eede98a?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:33 pm
From: "Dave"

Wal-Mart sells either 4 or 5 quart containers of valvoline pretty cheap.
How cheap, I don't remember. But valvoline is good stuff, as long as the
SAE rating is what you need. And I'm sure the cost was less than
2/quart. -Dave

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:40 pm
From: "Forrest"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:gci0bo$v3e$1@aioe.org...
> About a year and a half ago, I stocked up on quarts of 10W-30 engine oil
> for 95c each. I finally ran out, and the best price I've been able to
> find now is $2.25. This is despite the fact that crude oil prices have
> dropped from $140 recently down to less than $90. I'm guessing it may
> take more time for this to be reflected in the price of engine oil.
>
> Can anyone suggest a chain that has a better every day price? I would
> be quite happy to buy it a gallon at a time, rather than in quarts, since
> I always need a gallon or more.
>
> Thanks!

A few months ago I would have told you, K-Mart. I was getting their stuff
for about $7.50 a 5 quart jug. Last month it had been raised up to about
$10. I was in there last week, and it's now $15. Don't know about a good,
"every day price" any more. I just keep my eyes open for sales at Auto Zone
and Kragen. I've given up on Pep Boys. It seems that all of their sales now,
are nothing but "mail-in rebate" deals.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Should I renew my AIG auto insurance policy or not?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b89a5d081044ad3?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:44 pm
From: itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net

On Oct 7, 7:42 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> On Oct 6, 8:17 pm, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>
> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > My auto insurance policy is with AIG, and it is about to expire. The
> > rate is pretty good, so I want to renew the policy, but I wonder if I
> > should look for another company, given their problems? Will AIG
> > disappear, or does their bailout mean they definitely won't disappear?
>
> why deal with lying scum...find a more honorable company to deal
> with..and do some research, make sure its not backed by AIG, as many
> are.
>
> Phil scott

>
>
What an idiot.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:02 pm
From: George

itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net wrote:
> On Oct 7, 7:42 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 8:17 pm, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>>
>> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> My auto insurance policy is with AIG, and it is about to expire. The
>>> rate is pretty good, so I want to renew the policy, but I wonder if I
>>> should look for another company, given their problems? Will AIG
>>> disappear, or does their bailout mean they definitely won't disappear?
>> why deal with lying scum...find a more honorable company to deal
>> with..and do some research, make sure its not backed by AIG, as many
>> are.
>>
>> Phil scott
>
>>
> What an idiot.

For sure, why pick on such honest and reputable people? I just don't get
it either...

"For some people at AIG, the insurance giant rescued last month with an
$85 billion federal bailout, the good times keep rolling."

"Former chief executive Martin J. Sullivan, whose three-year tenure
coincided with much of the company's ill-fated risk-taking, is receiving
a $5 million performance bonus."

"And just last week, about 70 of the company's top performers were
rewarded with a week-long stay at the luxury St. Regis Resort in Monarch
Beach, Calif., where they ran up a tab of $440,000."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100702604.html

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:39 pm
From: itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net

On Oct 8, 4:02 pm, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> itsjoannotjo...@webtv.net wrote:
> > On Oct 7, 7:42 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> >> On Oct 6, 8:17 pm, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
>
> >> <void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> My auto insurance policy is with AIG, and it is about to expire. The
> >>> rate is pretty good, so I want to renew the policy, but I wonder if I
> >>> should look for another company, given their problems? Will AIG
> >>> disappear, or does their bailout mean they definitely won't disappear?
> >> why deal with lying scum...find a more honorable company to deal
> >> with..and do some research, make sure its not backed by AIG, as many
> >> are.
>
> >> Phil scott
>
> > What an idiot.
>
> For sure, why pick on such honest and reputable people? I just don't get
> it either...
>
> "For some people at AIG, the insurance giant rescued last month with an
> $85 billion federal bailout, the good times keep rolling."
>
> "Former chief executive Martin J. Sullivan, whose three-year tenure
> coincided with much of the company's ill-fated risk-taking, is receiving
> a $5 million performance bonus."
>
> "And just last week, about 70 of the company's top performers were
> rewarded with a week-long stay at the luxury St. Regis Resort in Monarch
> Beach, Calif., where they ran up a tab of $440,000."
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR200...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ummmmm, it was TEN of their top INDEPENDENT agents who were at this
retreat. A retreat that was planned long before the shit hit the fan.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PayPal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07cb0b4aa66d73c2?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:47 pm
From: larry

E Z Peaces wrote:
>
> One user says PayPal has a $100 limit for credit cards.

PER Month

> He tried to buy
> a $40 item three weeks after buying a $75 item. He kept getting error
> messages. Eventually he called his bank and learned that each time
> PayPal had given him an error message, his CC had billed him $1.

Maybe the $1 was the pre authorization used to test for a
valid cc account. It does lower your "available credit" but
is not an actual charge unless the charge is processed
(posted). Pay at the pump can do a $100 pre-authorization,
but later post the actual $40 that cancels the $100
pre-auth. Did he get a bill with the $1 charges?

Some online cc's show the pre-auths, most no longer do
because they had too many calls about "I never charged $300
for a car rental, hotel room, etc". Or got an cc overlimit
warning.

Paypal is ok as long as you understand and prepare for your
risks dealing with them. The former WAMU had an "on-line"
checking/debit card account with a $50 limit that was
perfect to hang a paypal account on. You just did an online
transfer as needed to cover your internet transactions.

~~~vic & h

how about a thread how to eliminate checks! i'm down to a
dozen a year. the local tax office takes cash or check
only. bank online pay takes a setup, and then scheduled 10
days before due date. So they can mail a check ;-) The last
reason I had for checking was to get my canceled tax checks
back, but now I get crappy unreadable on-line images back.
Haven't had a legal case with this yet, but last one for
"safe-keeping" checks almost cost us $1300 when judge would
only accept copy of front and BACK of canceled check, stupid
bank didn't copy the backs. Only won because we found a
later statement showing they credited the check they didn't
get ;-)

-- larry / dallas

> I wish I knew more about that.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:15 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 14:47:44 -0500, larry <foo@foobar.com> wrote:

>E Z Peaces wrote:
>>
>> One user says PayPal has a $100 limit for credit cards.
>
>PER Month
>
That's not "normal" if the claim is even true.
I have a regular PP acct and never had such a limit.
There's plenty of stuff via google to see how PP works.
It's not mysterious or nefarious.

>
>~~~vic & h
>
>how about a thread how to eliminate checks! i'm down to a
>dozen a year. the local tax office takes cash or check
>only. bank online pay takes a setup, and then scheduled 10
>days before due date. So they can mail a check ;-) The last
>reason I had for checking was to get my canceled tax checks
>back, but now I get crappy unreadable on-line images back.
>Haven't had a legal case with this yet, but last one for
>"safe-keeping" checks almost cost us $1300 when judge would
>only accept copy of front and BACK of canceled check, stupid
>bank didn't copy the backs. Only won because we found a
>later statement showing they credited the check they didn't
>get ;-)
>
I just checked my Chase account and see the on-line statement
includes both sides of the check. I download the acct statements,
and have them stored on multiple hard drives, but they have them on
the Chase site going back years. Probably wasting my time doing the
downloads, as I've never needed them. Never know though.
I use Quicken for paying my bills, through Chase. Still have to set
up payees, only once if the payee doesn't change anything.
Lead time is a day or two more than mailing a check yourself for some
payees, but I've noticed many lead times drop in half, apparently
because the payee gets set up for electronic transfer from Chase.
I just had to get new checks this year. Used the last one, which
had 19bb printed on it. Had to write over that since the year 2000
came around.
This new box of checks will outlive me, but just in case I make it to
2100 I got them with all blanks in the date. Fool me once.....
It's not worth it for me to not have checks.
I paid 4 tradesmen this year with checks for work on my house, and
doing it otherwise would have been a hassle.
Then my wife and daughter subscribe to a couple magazines that aren't
set up on-line and require a subscription form with a check.
But if you can pay everything on-line, or with cash, and maybe do an
occasional MO, you could save by not having checks.
That box of checks cost me over 20 bucks because I did it the easy
way, through the Chase on-line.
Anyway, I'm not there. It just seems that once in a while the easiest
way to pay is to find where you buried the checkbook.
I wrote more checks this year, about 6, than the previous 3 years
combined.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Math on the bailout doesn't add up...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3213ff522966e10e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:50 pm
From: SoCalMike

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 12:12:05 -0500, AL <lithar@hamiltoncom.net> wrote:
>
>> Gunner wrote:
>>
>>> SoCalMike <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>> "Obama, raises taxes and kills babies. Sarah Palin - raises
>>>> her daughters
>>>> babies
>>>>> and kills taxes." Pyotr Flipivich
>>
>>
>>>> while preaching abstinence
>>
>>
>>> Yes and?
>>> Better to raise a child than murder it, right?
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe SoCalMike's mother would disagree...
>
>
> Indeed

where IS corky's birth cert, anyway? hm?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: After bailout, AIG execs buy themselves a retreat worth more than $400,
000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6371735d69640d36?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:51 pm
From: itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net

On Oct 7, 5:24 pm, ultim...@gmail.com wrote:
> Heads must roll. Screw that 8= GIVE US THEIR BONES!!!!! =8
> http://consumerist.com/5060290/after-the-bailout-aig-bought-themselve...
>
> Now that AIG has been nationalized, some folks are wondering just how
> their tax dollars are being spent. If you're among them, we have some
> bad news for you from ABC. They are reporting that papers uncovered by
> congressional investigators show that "less than a week after the
> federal government committed $85 billion to bail out AIG, executives
> of the giant AIG insurance company headed for a week-long retreat at a
> luxury resort and spa, the St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach,
> California." Ouch.
>
> ABC says that the documents show that the company, yes the company,
> paid more than $400,000 for a week long retreat at the resort. The
> bill included $200,000 for rooms, $150,000 for meals and $23,000 in
> spa charges.
>
> Meanwhile near the same fucking area this resort is in
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/opinion/28wed2.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
>
> A Loss for Privacy Rights
>
> Published: November 28, 2007
>
> The Constitution protects individuals against unreasonable searches,
> but for this protection to have practical meaning, the courts must
> enforce it. This week, the Supreme Court let stand a disturbing ruling
> out of California that allows law enforcement to barge into people's
> homes without a warrant. The case has not prompted much outrage,
> perhaps because the people whose privacy is being invaded are welfare
> recipients, but it is a serious setback for the privacy rights of all
> Americans.

Another idiot posting crap they have no knowledge of.

This 'retreat' was planned last year and it was not a retreat. Top
insurance sellers in this and other companies are given perks
(prerequisite aka reward for a job well done). Whether it's a trip or
a car or jewelry, all companies do this for their top sellers.
Another tidbit of information, there were only 10 (ten) employees from
AIG present at this retreat that you and everyone else is blowing out
of proportion. But of course everything you read in the newspaper or
on the internet through a news service is the gospel truth, we all
know that.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:06 pm
From: Crash

> This 'retreat' was planned last year

and should have been cancelled with extreme prejudice...

> insurance sellers in this and other companies are given perks
> (prerequisite aka reward for a job well done).

the only commentary on the 'job' these a$$holes did is that you and I
now owe $85 billion...

WTF dude! -- You apparently can't get saddled up and ridden around the
coffee table enough!

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:34 pm
From: jay

> ... "less than a week after the federal government committed $85 billion to bail out AIG, executives of the giant AIG insurance company headed for a week-long retreat at a luxury resort and spa, the St. Regis Resort in Monarch Beach, California." ...

Let AIG know your thoughts via "Contact AIG" web page:
https://securecontent.aig.com/contact-aig_20_19050.html

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:19 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 13:06:12 -0700 (PDT), Crash
<sourcenexus@san.rr.com> wrote:

>> This 'retreat' was planned last year
>
>and should have been cancelled with extreme prejudice...
>
>> insurance sellers in this and other companies are given perks
>> (prerequisite aka reward for a job well done).
>
>the only commentary on the 'job' these a$$holes did is that you and I
>now owe $85 billion...
>
>WTF dude! -- You apparently can't get saddled up and ridden around the
>coffee table enough!

Either that, or he's doing the riding.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: still more of your future
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dd29ccacba58417c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 1:57 pm
From: George

Derald wrote:
> How we got here, really (again):
> http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308186097284712&secure=3
>

You might want to critically read what you post.

Such as this snippet:

"Ironically, the Bush administration repeatedly went to Congress in
2004, 2005 and 2006 to obtain stronger oversight and some limits on
Freddie and Fannie's reckless subprime lending. And each time, it was
voted down by Democrats in Congress, led by Frank, now chairman of the
Financial Services Committee."

Did you even consider that there was a ***republican*** Congressional
***majority*** during those years? If the republican president and the
republican congress actually wanted to cross their owners and cronies
they certainly could have done it without worry of being "voted down" by
a few democrats.

Both parties were complicit in the greed and the rigged game run by
their cronies that brought us to our current situation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Basic advice for an oven bake element house fire (GE JBP24B0B4WH)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f61775d3cbf26100?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:19 pm
From: crumbbuma@gmail.com

On Oct 7, 9:47 pm, Donna Ohl <donna....@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Can I just replace the bake element (or is the oven really kaput)?
> Can anyone tell me what actually caused the fire (it wasn't food)?http://www.flickr.com/photos/donnaohl/2923845906/ )

Listen ditszy,

Save yourself some money and replace the entire stove. You're worrying
your pretty little head over a very common occurrance. Most broil oven
elements only last three to five years so you're lucky you got as much
as you did out of the one you have. When you turned off the heat, in
your blonde moment (probably all the time) you turned it back on or
hit the wrong dial because the arcing would have stopped then and
there.

And, the fire extinguisher didn't put out the arcing because it was
still arcing and if was the top element (broil you ditz, not bake).
Here you are spraying powder on an upside down fire. Think about it.
The powder smothers the fire only if it lands on the fire. You would
have to turn the entire oven upside down for the fire extinguisher to
work, you idiot.

As for the part numbers, your oven is a GE Spectra white. Take the WH
off the part number BTW, it stands for white. That oven has to be at
least five to ten years old so fat chance you'll ever find the part at
GE for that. If you do find it, expect to pay upwards of $70 for it
(PN WB44T10009 for the top broil and PN WB44T100010 for the bottom
bake element).

What happened is you were dumb enough to have a splat of grease on the
element, which over time weakened the steel casing which over time
melted which over time exposed the inner resistive wire which over
time moved enough to get close to the ungrounded case of the oven
which arced frightfully (for you) which then cracked when you splashed
water or fire extinguisher on it which opened the circuit which killed
the arcing.

I have no idea what the "whoosh" sound was ..... probably the air
leaving your head as you concentrated on ruining your oven.

You can replace the element for a few hundred bucks with a service
call, or, if you do it yourself, you will almost certainly drop the
wires in the back as you unscrew them off the element so that you'll
have to pay a technician a few hundred bucks to take the oven apart to
get to the wires you dropped.

Anyway, if you like, call GE and they'll confirm everything I said (I
used to work for GE by the way).
GE tech support 800-626-2005
GE customer service 800-432-2737
GE oven appliances 800-386-1215
GE appliance parts 800-626-2002
GE troubleshooting 800-626-2000
GE Spectra JBP24B0B4 upper broil element P/N: WB44T10009
GE Spectra JBP24B0B4 lower bake element P/N: WB44T10010

Respectfully yours

==============================================================================
TOPIC: new hybrid batteries and overcharging
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d32953a33eed58b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 2:54 pm
From: "john d hamilton"

<tnom@mucks.net> wrote in message
news:9uvpe45o6dfibg5tjfjj5gfahplhqpm4en@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:14:52 +0100, "john d hamilton"
> <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
>>Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
>>made by Sanyo).
>>
>>They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
>>they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline,
>>in
>>that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>>
>>The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
>>and
>>which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
>>going
>>off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>>
>>Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?
>>
>
> Would it be to much trouble to identify the specific charger?

Many thanks to all. (except possibly Mr *Moody* Sommerwerck) The charger
is Energizer, Model; 'Compact Charger' (no serial numbers on it).

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 4:40 pm
From: E Z Peaces

john d hamilton wrote:
> <tnom@mucks.net> wrote in message
> news:9uvpe45o6dfibg5tjfjj5gfahplhqpm4en@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:14:52 +0100, "john d hamilton"
>> <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
>>> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
>>> made by Sanyo).
>>>
>>> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
>>> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline,
>>> in
>>> that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>>>
>>> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
>>> and
>>> which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
>>> going
>>> off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>>>
>>> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?
>>>
>> Would it be to much trouble to identify the specific charger?
>
> Many thanks to all. (except possibly Mr *Moody* Sommerwerck) The charger
> is Energizer, Model; 'Compact Charger' (no serial numbers on it).
>
>
Of 13 user reviews at amazon.com, 11 disliked it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Older metal windows won't close
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d3f7500cb0ac07cc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 3:20 pm
From: "SteveBell"

Kompu Kid wrote:

These old casement windows have a tendency to hang up. The gears in the
mechanism get a little worn, the hinges get a little dirty, and the
whole thing gets balky. One symptom of a worn mechanism is that the
window has lots of play--you can move it in and out with your hand
without turning the crank. The window shouldn't move more than half an
inch this way.

Others have recommended cleaning off the paint. I concur. The
mechanisms should never have been painted, but everyone does it for
some reason.

My recommendation: Replace the mechanism, assuming they're worn. You'll
have to hunt for the hardware.

--
Steve Bell
New Life Home Improvement
Arlington, TX

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 5:03 pm
From: "Big Al"

"SteveBell" <respond@online.newsgroup.invalid> wrote in message
news:xn0fw6qmyeyeni000@news.motzarella.org...
> Kompu Kid wrote:
>
>> Hello All:
>>
>> Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
>> substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
>> thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
>> buildup did not help.
>>
>> I have photos of the windows at:
>>
>>
> http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8BA!108/
>>
>> I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
>> old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
>> of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
>> "A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
>> then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
>> away).
>>
>> Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
>> also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
>> bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
>> glass...
>
> These old casement windows have a tendency to hang up. The gears in the
> mechanism get a little worn, the hinges get a little dirty, and the
> whole thing gets balky. One symptom of a worn mechanism is that the
> window has lots of play--you can move it in and out with your hand
> without turning the crank. The window shouldn't move more than half an
> inch this way.
>
> Others have recommended cleaning off the paint. I concur. The
> mechanisms should never have been painted, but everyone does it for
> some reason.
>
> My recommendation: Replace the mechanism, assuming they're worn. You'll
> have to hunt for the hardware.
>
> --
> Steve Bell

If these are common windows in his neighborhood, the local hardware stores
should have parts. Have a rental house with them and even the Home Depot and
True Value in the neighborhood have parts for the windows.

Guy I know has these windows. He cut off all the brackets and had new
sliding double pane windows made that fit into the old frame. In his house
the frame were buily into the brick. Would have been a mess to get them out
completely.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:26 am
From: clams_casino

Al Bundy wrote:

>On Oct 7, 5:08 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"A 'Nam Veteran" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>>The uneven nature of microwave cooking can make it a dangerous
>>>way to prepare frozen raw foods. When not all of the food is
>>>heated to a safe temperature, pockets of bacteria can survive
>>>and sicken people.
>>>
>>>
>>>Foods that contain raw chicken must be heated to 165 F,
>>>according to federal guidelines.
>>>
>>>
>>Is there anyone, anywhere who cooks meat in the microwave? Re-heating
>>leftovers, sure, but "frozen raw foods"? In a microwave? Who does that?
>>
>>
>
>Yes, I can cook a 25# turkey in a microwave. It browns and comes out
>fine if you do it right, generally seven minutes per pound for
>starters. You have to turn it frequently. You also have to have the
>right equipment. I prefer a large box with no turntable. The waves are
>mixed by a motorized stirrer beneath the unit so a turntable is
>unnecessary. Turntables came about because of uneven stirring from
>wind generated fans above the box. People became sold on seeing the
>food turn and marketing took over from there. Most ovens have
>turntables now. Even with a turn table, an oven can develop hot spots
>that will almost set food on fire. Even a chocolate chip cookie can
>smoke up the room with such ovens.
>
>A good test for even cooking is to place a plastic container of
>shallow water in the oven and observe the boiling action when it heats
>up. The bubbles should be even over the entire surface. If all the
>boiling takes place at one or two points, you are experiencing very
>uneven cooking. You might not notice it while boiling a cup of water
>for coffee, but a cake would be a mess and meat might not be fully
>cooked.
>
>

Why would anyone want an essentially steamed turkey when a roasted
turkey would be superior & much easier to prepare?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:17 pm
From: Al Bundy

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:33 am
From: Kompu Kid

Hello All:

Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
buildup did not help.

I have photos of the windows at:

http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8BA!108/

I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
"A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
away).

Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
glass...

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Deguza

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:25 am
From: Norminn

Kompu Kid wrote:

>Hello All:
>
>Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
>substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
>thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
>buildup did not help.
>
>I have photos of the windows at:
>
>http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8BA!108/
>
>I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
>old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
>of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
>"A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
>then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
>away).
>
>Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
>also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
>bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
>glass...
>
>Any recommendations?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Deguza
>
>
Can you remove the brace at the bottom of the window? Looks like it
also has heavy paint
build-up ...... hard telling from here, but if the brace has thick paint
on it, it might be pushing
on the hinge when it closes. As for bending the frame, take out the
glass, bend, replace
glass. Have you used a straight-edge to make sure only one edge of the
frame is not straight?
Glass shouldn't bend much, so perhaps the mating edge against "D" is
also warped (with,
perhaps, too much weight from above?). Perhaps the framing is warped
from too much
wind against the open window over time?

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:26 am
From: mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com

Kompu Kid wrote:
> Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> buildup did not help.

> Any recommendations?

Sadly, the only real solution is to replace them, or leave them shut.

My last apartment had those crappy aluminum casement windows.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:03 am
From: Kompu Kid

On Oct 8, 8:25 am, Norminn <norm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kompu Kid wrote:
> >Hello All:
>
> >Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> >substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> >thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> >buildup did not help.
>
> >I have photos of the windows at:
>
> >http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8...
>
> >I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> >old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> >of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> >"A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> >then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> >away).
>
> >Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> >also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> >bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> >glass...
>
> >Any recommendations?
>
> >Thanks!
>
> >Deguza
>
> Can you remove the brace at the bottom of the window? Looks like it
> also has heavy paint
> build-up ...... hard telling from here, but if the brace has thick paint
> on it, it might be pushing
> on the hinge when it closes. As for bending the frame, take out the
> glass, bend, replace
> glass. Have you used a straight-edge to make sure only one edge of the
> frame is not straight?
> Glass shouldn't bend much, so perhaps the mating edge against "D" is
> also warped (with,
> perhaps, too much weight from above?). Perhaps the framing is warped
> from too much
> wind against the open window over time?

We did remove the arm at one point but it was not blocking anything.
This arm opens and closes the window when the crank handle is rotated.

Deguza

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:07 am
From: Kompu Kid

On Oct 8, 8:26 am, mkirs...@rochester.rr.com wrote:
> Kompu Kid wrote:
> > Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> > substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> > thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> > buildup did not help.
> > Any recommendations?
>
> Sadly, the only real solution is to replace them, or leave them shut.
>
> My last apartment had those crappy aluminum casement windows.

Wish these were aluminum, it would be easy to bend them. These are
steel.

Deguza

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:47 am
From: "Lou"

"Kompu Kid" <deguza@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9b7a31d6-c5b0-4934-93c7-5d6170dbe205@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hello All:
>
> Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> buildup did not help.
>
> I have photos of the windows at:
>
> http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8BA!108/
>
> I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> "A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> away).

The title of this post is "Older metal windows won't close" - it's not
obvious from the pictures that the window frames are metal. You don't say
what the metal is, but I'll bet it's aluminum.

I doubt that the aluminum and glass have warped on their own. More likely,
in my estimation, is that the house has settled since the windows where
installed, and the dimensions/orientation of the frame have changed over the
years.

Possibly, taking the windows off the house entirely, and reinstalling them
as though they were new (shiming and sawing as needed), would fix the
problem - unless of course, the house continues to settle.

> Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> glass...
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Deguza

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:13 am
From: Kompu Kid

On Oct 8, 9:47 am, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Kompu Kid" <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9b7a31d6-c5b0-4934-93c7-5d6170dbe205@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hello All:
>
> > Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> > substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> > thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> > buildup did not help.
>
> > I have photos of the windows at:
>
> >http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8...
>
> > I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> > old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> > of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> > "A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> > then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> > away).
>
> The title of this post is "Older metal windows won't close" - it's not
> obvious from the pictures that the window frames are metal. You don't say
> what the metal is, but I'll bet it's aluminum.
>
> I doubt that the aluminum and glass have warped on their own. More likely,
> in my estimation, is that the house has settled since the windows where
> installed, and the dimensions/orientation of the frame have changed over the
> years.
>
> Possibly, taking the windows off the house entirely, and reinstalling them
> as though they were new (shiming and sawing as needed), would fix the
> problem - unless of course, the house continues to settle.
>
> > Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> > also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> > bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> > glass...
>
> > Any recommendations?
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > Deguza

They are steel windows. And I think you are right about the cause. I
also think that removing and reinstalling the windows can help.
However, this is beyond my and the nephew's skill set... Having some
else do it would be costly--this is the first home nephew got, and he
does not have much funds left to hire someone.

What do you think of putting slightly undersized pins at the hinges--
say 10 or 20 mil smaller in diameter? This would make the Edge A go
out slightly, which in turn should get Edge D closer to the window
frame when closing.

Deguza

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:03 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 8, 10:33 am, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All:
>
> Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> buildup did not help.
>
> I have photos of the windows at:
>
> http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8...
>
> I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> "A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> away).
>
> Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> glass...
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Deguza

Clearly nothing is warped because it is steel. Changing to smaller
pins will only make the window sloppy. The opportunity to move the
window that way is very minimal. The window is not moving to the left
as it should when cranked in. Assuming all the edges are clean of
paint as you say, I believe those main brackets that mount to the
house or frame are either bent or out of adjustment. If you can clean
all the paint off where they mount, you may see slots that have
gradually allowed the window to fall out of the original mounting
position. Clean everything up and remount it properly. Check similar
windows on the house to compare measurements of the distance from the
bracket to the closing edge.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ( www.3Akicks.com ) sell and wholesale air jordans sneakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/babd639ab7183006?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:48 am
From: "sneakers_in_chin12@yahoo.com.cn"

Ed Hardy has a wide randge of products such as bags,caps,T-
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The sale of world famous jacket,Jean-COOGI/DG/gino green global /G-Star
and so on
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9a6049b6fd5be68f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:18 am
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== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:24 am
From: Derald

E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>PayPal says an advantage for the buyer is that the seller doesn't see
>credit-card numbers. Are there disadvantages?
Of course there are disadvantages. For example, within certain
narrow limits, paypal may limit access and/or limit transaction dollar
value. Read and understand the TOS for yourself. Of the three "paypal
sucks" sites cited elsewhere in this thread, you will notice that one is
a dead link, the other three consist of unsubstantiated anecdotal FUD
and clearly are lame attempts by card processing companies to sell
merchant's accounts. One of them blatantly misinterprets/distorts the PP
TOS right there on its main page for anyone who reads and understands
English to see. In the 10+ years that I've been a paypal customer, I
haven't actually encountered anyone who has had or can substantiate any
of the horror stories that one reads. However, it is important to
understand that _just as with a credit merchant's account_ the merchant
(seller) takes all risks and accepts all losses even in cases of credit
card theft or so-called "fraud"; the presumption is that a customer's
complaint is legitimate until proven otherwise. Credit card companies do
not indemnify merchants against anything at all whatsoever. Been there;
done that; sold the tee shirt on ebay....
I've used PayPal to buy and sell on eBay since 1999 without
incident, save for one occasion last year that my outgoing transaction
amount was limited to $500 due to a clerical error on PP's part that was
rectified within hours. For sales, I accept only cash or paypal.
Nowadays, I wouldn't accept a check or money order from the Pope and
would never consider actually paying by either method. Of course
prudence pays: For example, establish one low-limit credit card that is
reserved exclusively for online use, including paypal/ebay. Establish a
separate bank account exclusively for PayPal, make sure that it is NOT
linked to any other bank account and keep it minimally funded. "Sweep"
accumulated paypal balances into that account frequently and regularly
and then REMOVE that cash from the bank ASAP! In the event of a disputed
transaction, then paypal can freeze away but you will still have your
cash in hand.
Personally, I shop online almost exclusively with merchants who
take paypal and pay with paypal buyer credit (ripoff interest GE
consumer credit), which I settle in full each month via online payment
from the checking account that is linked to paypal (they don't take
paypal!). I sweep paypal balance into the bank before it accumulates to
more than I care to lose (daily, if necessary). If an individual sale is
for a substantial sum, I may delay shipping until the transfer is
completed and the money actually is _in_ the bank. As necessary, and
using the same criterion, I withdraw cash from the linked account and
deposit into a separate account _at another bank_. From the second bank,
I transfer online to an interest-bearing account. I know it sounds
convoluted but it allows me to put accumulated cash someplace where
paypal cannot get to it and I selected banks with b&m branches in
locations that allow me to combine errands.
BTW: PayPal's default payment method for purchases is
user-selectable. It is important actually to _read_ the information
presented on the PP site.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:40 am
From: "h"

"elise d faber" <ediefaber@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
> i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
> do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
> account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
> paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
> money order.
>
> elise

I'm amazed anyone is willing buy anything from you if you require a money
order. I would never go through the hassle of leaving the house (I work at
home), driving to the bank (I never have cash) and then to the USPS to wait
in a very long, slow line, and then have to shell out $1.05 for the money
order. Then I have to spend $.42 for a stamp, and a few cents for an
envelope, find your address, then mail the envelope. Good grief, that adds
several days to the wait time just to have the item shipped. And on top of
all that, I won't get my 1-5% cash back on my purchase that I would normally
get using my credit card through PayPal, but I've spent and extra $1.50 plus
gas and 45 minutes of my time just for the "privilege" of buying from you.

Checks and money orders? Are you people kidding? This is 2008, not 1908.
It's simply not frugal to pay for things with checks and money orders
because they cost too much in time and money.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:23 am
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:24:37 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:

> BTW: PayPal's default payment method for purchases is
>user-selectable. It is important actually to _read_ the information
>presented on the PP site.

Read this
http://www.mightybargainhunter.com/2008/04/16/why-paypal-makes-it-a-chore-to-pay-by-credit-card/

Which confirms what I said about my personal verified account.
The default is the bank account, and can't be changed.
If you know otherwise, and tell me how to do it, I will genuflect in
your direction.

--Vic

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:00 am
From: ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:36:22 -0500, Vic Smith
<thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:49:32 GMT, ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
>>do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
>>account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
>>paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
>>money order.
>>
>Your choice, of course. But I think you would get better bids on your
>items if you offered PayPal. I don't even bid on items that don't
>offer PayPal payment, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
>
>--Vic

that's ok with me. i don't sell many things and none are 'vintage
collectors' items'. if it doesn't sell on ebay, i freecycle it. if i
did want to do more selling and use paypal for that, i would ope a
throw-away bank account just for paypal.

elise

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:02 am
From: ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:40:44 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
wrote:

>
>"elise d faber" <ediefaber@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
>> i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
>> do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
>> account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
>> paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
>> money order.
>>
>> elise
>
>I'm amazed anyone is willing buy anything from you if you require a money
>order. I would never go through the hassle of leaving the house (I work at
>home), driving to the bank (I never have cash) and then to the USPS to wait
>in a very long, slow line, and then have to shell out $1.05 for the money
>order. Then I have to spend $.42 for a stamp, and a few cents for an
>envelope, find your address, then mail the envelope. Good grief, that adds
>several days to the wait time just to have the item shipped. And on top of
>all that, I won't get my 1-5% cash back on my purchase that I would normally
>get using my credit card through PayPal, but I've spent and extra $1.50 plus
>gas and 45 minutes of my time just for the "privilege" of buying from you.
>
>Checks and money orders? Are you people kidding? This is 2008, not 1908.
>It's simply not frugal to pay for things with checks and money orders
>because they cost too much in time and money.
>
>

i don't sell enough things to care whether i get your business.it is
just a way of maybe getting a little money ack on things that i will
freecycleif it doesn;t go on ebay.

elise

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:04 am
From: E Z Peaces

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:24:37 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>
>> BTW: PayPal's default payment method for purchases is
>> user-selectable. It is important actually to _read_ the information
>> presented on the PP site.
>
> Read this
> http://www.mightybargainhunter.com/2008/04/16/why-paypal-makes-it-a-chore-to-pay-by-credit-card/
>
> Which confirms what I said about my personal verified account.
> The default is the bank account, and can't be changed.
> If you know otherwise, and tell me how to do it, I will genuflect in
> your direction.
>
> --Vic

One user says PayPal has a $100 limit for credit cards. He tried to buy
a $40 item three weeks after buying a $75 item. He kept getting error
messages. Eventually he called his bank and learned that each time
PayPal had given him an error message, his CC had billed him $1. I wish
I knew more about that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Top 10 genuine methods of making money online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/54d64c45058a6b0d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:07 am
From: madhurimaniknepal

Top 10 genuine methods of making money online

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:02 am
From: "Lou"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:hfZGk.46391$Nu3.11569@newsfe14.iad...
> Lou wrote:
>
>>"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1@aioe.org...
>>
>>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
>>> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
>>> recession.
>>>
>>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>> admitting that we are in a recession.
>>>
>>
>>A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In
>>spite of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened yet. It
>>seems pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still out.
>>
>>
>
> The tax refund this past spring temporarily interrupted the technical
> reading for the recession (two consecutive down quarters), but it's quite
> obvious that was not enough to offset the adverse effects of the current
> financial meltdown. Current quarter is very likely back to a decline and
> many project next quarter will be down as well.

Whatever the reason, the USA has not yet been in a recession recently. I'm
all but certain it will, but it hasn't yet. Most of the time, you don't
know when a recession started or ended until it's over.

>>
>>> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
>>> was a few months ago.
>
> Unlike the previous recession where the tech stocks were the primary
> losses, this year it's been 20-40% losses across the board.
>
>
>
>>> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state it is higher than it has
>>> been in more than 16 years.

You know, that sounds bad, and I don't mean to belittle it, but 16 years ago
was 1992. We all lived through that. Back in the 1970's, anything under 7%
unemployment was considered full employment, and that at a time when both
spouses holding down a paying job was more of an exception instead of the
rule. We lived through that too.

> September state sales tax receipts here were reported this morning to be
> down 18% vs. last year - similar declines were reported for July and
> August as well.

Here in NJ, the governor is talking about slashing state spending - nice
change from the last time around, when what they did was raise taxes to make
up the shortfall.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:59 am
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

In article <gchq6h$a9m$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
john d hamilton <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:

>Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
>Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
>made by Sanyo).
>
>They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
>they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline, in
>that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
>The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries and
>which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light going
>off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>
>Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

According to the manufacturer web pages I've read, overcharging *any*
NiMH cell significantly can shorten its life... they're somewhat less
tolerant to this than nickel-cadmium cells. Also, it's somewhat more
difficult to detect the "full charge" state in a NiMH than it is in a
NiCd, especially at low charge rates.

Based on what I've read, there seem to be two charging schemes for
NiMH which the cells will tolerate fairly well:

- Slow charge (0.1 C or so) with a timed cutoff after 12 to 16 hours.
If you touch the cells during charging and find that they are
significantly warm, then they're probably "full". [They do warm up
somewhat during the normal charging process, so judging whether
they're warm enough to indicate full-charge is not always easy.]

- Fast charge (0.5C to 1C, or in some cases even higher) with primary
cutoff based on temperature rise, secondary cutoff based on zero
delta-V (i.e. the cell voltage stops rising when full-charge is
reached) and a timed cutoff as a failsafe.

Intermediate rates (above .1C and below .5C) have some
disadvantages... this amount of current may not result in a rapid
temperature rise at full-charge (thus making full-charge harder to
detect reliably) but is high enough to affect the cell's lifetime if
you do end up overcharging the cell.

It sounds to me as if your Energizer charger has its full-charge
detection circuit tuned properly for this newer type of NiMH cell. If
it's a slow (overnight) charger, you probably won't hurt the cells
significantly using it as long as you shut it down manually at the
proper time. If it's a "quick" or "fast" charger, it may very well be
overheating the cells enough to reduce their lifetime.

If you plan to use a lot of NiMH cells, or to recharge them
frequently, it might very well be a good investment to buy a
high-quality charger specifically designed for reliable fast-charging
of such cells. I like the Powerex MH-C9000 myself, as it's fast and
reliable and has a lot of useful features.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:34 am
From: E Z Peaces

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
>> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
>> made by Sanyo).
>
>> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
>> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the alkaline,
> in
>> that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
>> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
> and
>> which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
> going
>> off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>
>> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?
>
>
> Who knows? HAVE YOU ASKED THE MANUFACTURER? No, of course not. That's too
> much trouble, isn't it?
>
> Good grief. Do you expect the people in this group to have detailed
> technical information about about a new product?
>
> By the way, I've not heard of NiMH cells suffering from memory effect.
>
>
NiMH cells have done very well for me, using a fast charger with a light
for each cell. After ten years, all twelve still hold a charge for weeks.

If more than one cell is charged on the same circuit (the same indicator
light), the charger should shut off when the first cell is charged.
With each charging cycle, the state of charge of the lowest cell may be
lower and you'll get less service out of the set of batteries. It could
seem like memory effect. The solution is the same, to drain each cell
and then charge.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:41 am
From: "OG"

"john d hamilton" <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gchq6h$a9m$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
> made by Sanyo).
>
> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline,
> in that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
> and which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
> going off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go
> off.
>
> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

Have you used them yet or are you putting them in the charger straight from
the box?

If they are new they will be fully charged already. My understanding is that
the 'sensor' for detecting full charge is the drop in current when the cell
goes from 'active charging' to ' fully charged'**, so it suggests that you
are probably currently 'over'charging them.

Let them run down and then try again. Calculate the approximate charging
time and start charging so that you can check if the charger light goes out
within an hour or so of the expected time.

**I'm not an expert on this, so I'm happy to be corrected on the mechanism
for detecting full charge.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:46 am
From: tnom@mucks.net

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:14:52 +0100, "john d hamilton"
<bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:

Would it be to much trouble to identify the specific charger?

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:54 pm
From: Derald

How we got here, really (again):
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308186097284712&secure=3

How it's gonna be:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1502&status=article&id=308272109506203

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308271768901116

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308185654524278&secure=1

Political BS:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308186242376305&secure=4

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308272698295150

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308271974461547

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308185788382240&secure=2

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Wednesday, October 8, 2008

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest