Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 9 topics

Wednesday, October 8, 2008

25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is your MicroWave up to snuff?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56a52aafeb89d1a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:26 am
From: clams_casino

Al Bundy wrote:

>On Oct 7, 5:08 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"A 'Nam Veteran" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>>The uneven nature of microwave cooking can make it a dangerous
>>>way to prepare frozen raw foods. When not all of the food is
>>>heated to a safe temperature, pockets of bacteria can survive
>>>and sicken people.
>>>
>>>
>>>Foods that contain raw chicken must be heated to 165 F,
>>>according to federal guidelines.
>>>
>>>
>>Is there anyone, anywhere who cooks meat in the microwave? Re-heating
>>leftovers, sure, but "frozen raw foods"? In a microwave? Who does that?
>>
>>
>
>Yes, I can cook a 25# turkey in a microwave. It browns and comes out
>fine if you do it right, generally seven minutes per pound for
>starters. You have to turn it frequently. You also have to have the
>right equipment. I prefer a large box with no turntable. The waves are
>mixed by a motorized stirrer beneath the unit so a turntable is
>unnecessary. Turntables came about because of uneven stirring from
>wind generated fans above the box. People became sold on seeing the
>food turn and marketing took over from there. Most ovens have
>turntables now. Even with a turn table, an oven can develop hot spots
>that will almost set food on fire. Even a chocolate chip cookie can
>smoke up the room with such ovens.
>
>A good test for even cooking is to place a plastic container of
>shallow water in the oven and observe the boiling action when it heats
>up. The bubbles should be even over the entire surface. If all the
>boiling takes place at one or two points, you are experiencing very
>uneven cooking. You might not notice it while boiling a cup of water
>for coffee, but a cake would be a mess and meat might not be fully
>cooked.
>
>

Why would anyone want an essentially steamed turkey when a roasted
turkey would be superior & much easier to prepare?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:17 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 8, 10:26 am, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Al Bundy wrote:
> >On Oct 7, 5:08 pm, "h" <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
>
> >>"A 'Nam Veteran" <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>The uneven nature of microwave cooking can make it a dangerous
> >>>way to prepare frozen raw foods. When not all of the food is
> >>>heated to a safe temperature, pockets of bacteria can survive
> >>>and sicken people.
>
> >>>Foods that contain raw chicken must be heated to 165 F,
> >>>according to federal guidelines.
>
> >>Is there anyone, anywhere who cooks meat in the microwave? Re-heating
> >>leftovers, sure, but "frozen raw foods"? In a microwave? Who does that?
>
> >Yes, I can cook a 25# turkey in a microwave. It browns and comes out
> >fine if you do it right, generally seven minutes per pound for
> >starters. You have to turn it frequently. You also have to have the
> >right equipment. I prefer a large box with no turntable. The waves are
> >mixed by a motorized stirrer beneath the unit so a turntable is
> >unnecessary. Turntables came about because of uneven stirring from
> >wind generated fans above the box. People became sold on seeing the
> >food turn and marketing took over from there. Most ovens have
> >turntables now. Even with a turn table, an oven can develop hot spots
> >that will almost set food on fire. Even a chocolate chip cookie can
> >smoke up the room with such ovens.
>
> >A good test for even cooking is to place a plastic container of
> >shallow water in the oven and observe the boiling action when it heats
> >up. The bubbles should be even over the entire surface. If all the
> >boiling takes place at one or two points, you are experiencing very
> >uneven cooking. You might not notice it while boiling a cup of water
> >for coffee, but a cake would be a mess and meat might not be fully
> >cooked.
>
> Why would anyone want an essentially steamed turkey when a roasted
> turkey would be superior & much easier to prepare?

Because it's not steamed. It's fully cooked, tender, tastes great, and
is easier to clean up. I have not used an oven in 40 years except if
the kid wants to bake a cake. Each to his own when it comes to food
and preparation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Older metal windows won't close
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d3f7500cb0ac07cc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:33 am
From: Kompu Kid

Hello All:

Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
buildup did not help.

I have photos of the windows at:

http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8BA!108/

I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
"A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
away).

Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
glass...

Any recommendations?

Thanks!

Deguza

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:25 am
From: Norminn

Kompu Kid wrote:

>Hello All:
>
>Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
>substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
>thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
>buildup did not help.
>
>I have photos of the windows at:
>
>http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8BA!108/
>
>I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
>old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
>of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
>"A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
>then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
>away).
>
>Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
>also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
>bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
>glass...
>
>Any recommendations?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Deguza
>
>
Can you remove the brace at the bottom of the window? Looks like it
also has heavy paint
build-up ...... hard telling from here, but if the brace has thick paint
on it, it might be pushing
on the hinge when it closes. As for bending the frame, take out the
glass, bend, replace
glass. Have you used a straight-edge to make sure only one edge of the
frame is not straight?
Glass shouldn't bend much, so perhaps the mating edge against "D" is
also warped (with,
perhaps, too much weight from above?). Perhaps the framing is warped
from too much
wind against the open window over time?

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:26 am
From: mkirsch1@rochester.rr.com

Kompu Kid wrote:
> Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> buildup did not help.

> Any recommendations?

Sadly, the only real solution is to replace them, or leave them shut.

My last apartment had those crappy aluminum casement windows.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:03 am
From: Kompu Kid

On Oct 8, 8:25 am, Norminn <norm...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Kompu Kid wrote:
> >Hello All:
>
> >Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> >substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> >thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> >buildup did not help.
>
> >I have photos of the windows at:
>
> >http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8...
>
> >I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> >old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> >of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> >"A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> >then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> >away).
>
> >Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> >also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> >bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> >glass...
>
> >Any recommendations?
>
> >Thanks!
>
> >Deguza
>
> Can you remove the brace at the bottom of the window? Looks like it
> also has heavy paint
> build-up ...... hard telling from here, but if the brace has thick paint
> on it, it might be pushing
> on the hinge when it closes. As for bending the frame, take out the
> glass, bend, replace
> glass. Have you used a straight-edge to make sure only one edge of the
> frame is not straight?
> Glass shouldn't bend much, so perhaps the mating edge against "D" is
> also warped (with,
> perhaps, too much weight from above?). Perhaps the framing is warped
> from too much
> wind against the open window over time?

We did remove the arm at one point but it was not blocking anything.
This arm opens and closes the window when the crank handle is rotated.

Deguza

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:07 am
From: Kompu Kid

On Oct 8, 8:26 am, mkirs...@rochester.rr.com wrote:
> Kompu Kid wrote:
> > Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> > substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> > thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> > buildup did not help.
> > Any recommendations?
>
> Sadly, the only real solution is to replace them, or leave them shut.
>
> My last apartment had those crappy aluminum casement windows.

Wish these were aluminum, it would be easy to bend them. These are
steel.

Deguza

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:47 am
From: "Lou"

"Kompu Kid" <deguza@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9b7a31d6-c5b0-4934-93c7-5d6170dbe205@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Hello All:
>
> Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> buildup did not help.
>
> I have photos of the windows at:
>
> http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8BA!108/
>
> I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> "A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> away).

The title of this post is "Older metal windows won't close" - it's not
obvious from the pictures that the window frames are metal. You don't say
what the metal is, but I'll bet it's aluminum.

I doubt that the aluminum and glass have warped on their own. More likely,
in my estimation, is that the house has settled since the windows where
installed, and the dimensions/orientation of the frame have changed over the
years.

Possibly, taking the windows off the house entirely, and reinstalling them
as though they were new (shiming and sawing as needed), would fix the
problem - unless of course, the house continues to settle.

> Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> glass...
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Deguza

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:13 am
From: Kompu Kid

On Oct 8, 9:47 am, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Kompu Kid" <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9b7a31d6-c5b0-4934-93c7-5d6170dbe205@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hello All:
>
> > Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> > substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> > thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> > buildup did not help.
>
> > I have photos of the windows at:
>
> >http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8...
>
> > I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> > old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> > of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> > "A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> > then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> > away).
>
> The title of this post is "Older metal windows won't close" - it's not
> obvious from the pictures that the window frames are metal. You don't say
> what the metal is, but I'll bet it's aluminum.
>
> I doubt that the aluminum and glass have warped on their own. More likely,
> in my estimation, is that the house has settled since the windows where
> installed, and the dimensions/orientation of the frame have changed over the
> years.
>
> Possibly, taking the windows off the house entirely, and reinstalling them
> as though they were new (shiming and sawing as needed), would fix the
> problem - unless of course, the house continues to settle.
>
> > Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> > also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> > bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> > glass...
>
> > Any recommendations?
>
> > Thanks!
>
> > Deguza

They are steel windows. And I think you are right about the cause. I
also think that removing and reinstalling the windows can help.
However, this is beyond my and the nephew's skill set... Having some
else do it would be costly--this is the first home nephew got, and he
does not have much funds left to hire someone.

What do you think of putting slightly undersized pins at the hinges--
say 10 or 20 mil smaller in diameter? This would make the Edge A go
out slightly, which in turn should get Edge D closer to the window
frame when closing.

Deguza

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:03 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 8, 10:33 am, Kompu Kid <deg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All:
>
> Windows at my nephew's home won't close unless one pushes it with
> substantial force from outside. I looked into it a bit. I first
> thought it was paint buildup, but ruled this out after cleaning the
> buildup did not help.
>
> I have photos of the windows at:
>
> http://cid-eb85de77506ba8ba.spaces.live.com/photos/cns!EB85DE77506BA8...
>
> I think the windows are slightly warped over time --this is a 60-year-
> old home. I am thinking that if he can replace the pins in hinges (one
> of the hinges is marked with "B") with a smaller diameter one, the
> "A" side of the window would be slightly pushed out, and the "D" edge
> then would get to touch the mating frame (it now stands 1/4" or so
> away).
>
> Alternately if the lateral edges can be bent inwards a bit this would
> also get the Edge D closer. But I cannot think of an easy way of
> bending these edges in a controlled manner, and without breaking the
> glass...
>
> Any recommendations?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Deguza

Clearly nothing is warped because it is steel. Changing to smaller
pins will only make the window sloppy. The opportunity to move the
window that way is very minimal. The window is not moving to the left
as it should when cranked in. Assuming all the edges are clean of
paint as you say, I believe those main brackets that mount to the
house or frame are either bent or out of adjustment. If you can clean
all the paint off where they mount, you may see slots that have
gradually allowed the window to fall out of the original mounting
position. Clean everything up and remount it properly. Check similar
windows on the house to compare measurements of the distance from the
bracket to the closing edge.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ( www.3Akicks.com ) sell and wholesale air jordans sneakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/babd639ab7183006?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 7:48 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The sale of world famous jacket,Jean-COOGI/DG/gino green global /G-Star
and so on
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9a6049b6fd5be68f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:18 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: PayPal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/07cb0b4aa66d73c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:24 am
From: Derald

E Z Peaces <cash@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>PayPal says an advantage for the buyer is that the seller doesn't see
>credit-card numbers. Are there disadvantages?
Of course there are disadvantages. For example, within certain
narrow limits, paypal may limit access and/or limit transaction dollar
value. Read and understand the TOS for yourself. Of the three "paypal
sucks" sites cited elsewhere in this thread, you will notice that one is
a dead link, the other three consist of unsubstantiated anecdotal FUD
and clearly are lame attempts by card processing companies to sell
merchant's accounts. One of them blatantly misinterprets/distorts the PP
TOS right there on its main page for anyone who reads and understands
English to see. In the 10+ years that I've been a paypal customer, I
haven't actually encountered anyone who has had or can substantiate any
of the horror stories that one reads. However, it is important to
understand that _just as with a credit merchant's account_ the merchant
(seller) takes all risks and accepts all losses even in cases of credit
card theft or so-called "fraud"; the presumption is that a customer's
complaint is legitimate until proven otherwise. Credit card companies do
not indemnify merchants against anything at all whatsoever. Been there;
done that; sold the tee shirt on ebay....
I've used PayPal to buy and sell on eBay since 1999 without
incident, save for one occasion last year that my outgoing transaction
amount was limited to $500 due to a clerical error on PP's part that was
rectified within hours. For sales, I accept only cash or paypal.
Nowadays, I wouldn't accept a check or money order from the Pope and
would never consider actually paying by either method. Of course
prudence pays: For example, establish one low-limit credit card that is
reserved exclusively for online use, including paypal/ebay. Establish a
separate bank account exclusively for PayPal, make sure that it is NOT
linked to any other bank account and keep it minimally funded. "Sweep"
accumulated paypal balances into that account frequently and regularly
and then REMOVE that cash from the bank ASAP! In the event of a disputed
transaction, then paypal can freeze away but you will still have your
cash in hand.
Personally, I shop online almost exclusively with merchants who
take paypal and pay with paypal buyer credit (ripoff interest GE
consumer credit), which I settle in full each month via online payment
from the checking account that is linked to paypal (they don't take
paypal!). I sweep paypal balance into the bank before it accumulates to
more than I care to lose (daily, if necessary). If an individual sale is
for a substantial sum, I may delay shipping until the transfer is
completed and the money actually is _in_ the bank. As necessary, and
using the same criterion, I withdraw cash from the linked account and
deposit into a separate account _at another bank_. From the second bank,
I transfer online to an interest-bearing account. I know it sounds
convoluted but it allows me to put accumulated cash someplace where
paypal cannot get to it and I selected banks with b&m branches in
locations that allow me to combine errands.
BTW: PayPal's default payment method for purchases is
user-selectable. It is important actually to _read_ the information
presented on the PP site.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 8:40 am
From: "h"

"elise d faber" <ediefaber@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
> i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
> do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
> account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
> paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
> money order.
>
> elise

I'm amazed anyone is willing buy anything from you if you require a money
order. I would never go through the hassle of leaving the house (I work at
home), driving to the bank (I never have cash) and then to the USPS to wait
in a very long, slow line, and then have to shell out $1.05 for the money
order. Then I have to spend $.42 for a stamp, and a few cents for an
envelope, find your address, then mail the envelope. Good grief, that adds
several days to the wait time just to have the item shipped. And on top of
all that, I won't get my 1-5% cash back on my purchase that I would normally
get using my credit card through PayPal, but I've spent and extra $1.50 plus
gas and 45 minutes of my time just for the "privilege" of buying from you.

Checks and money orders? Are you people kidding? This is 2008, not 1908.
It's simply not frugal to pay for things with checks and money orders
because they cost too much in time and money.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:23 am
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:24:37 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:

> BTW: PayPal's default payment method for purchases is
>user-selectable. It is important actually to _read_ the information
>presented on the PP site.

Read this
http://www.mightybargainhunter.com/2008/04/16/why-paypal-makes-it-a-chore-to-pay-by-credit-card/

Which confirms what I said about my personal verified account.
The default is the bank account, and can't be changed.
If you know otherwise, and tell me how to do it, I will genuflect in
your direction.

--Vic

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:00 am
From: ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)

On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 07:36:22 -0500, Vic Smith
<thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:49:32 GMT, ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
>>do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
>>account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
>>paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
>>money order.
>>
>Your choice, of course. But I think you would get better bids on your
>items if you offered PayPal. I don't even bid on items that don't
>offer PayPal payment, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.
>
>--Vic

that's ok with me. i don't sell many things and none are 'vintage
collectors' items'. if it doesn't sell on ebay, i freecycle it. if i
did want to do more selling and use paypal for that, i would ope a
throw-away bank account just for paypal.

elise

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:02 am
From: ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 11:40:44 -0400, "h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com>
wrote:

>
>"elise d faber" <ediefaber@yahoo.com> wrote in message >
>> i'm still not verified and will give up paypal and ebay if i have to
>> do that. there is no way that i would give paypal acccess to my bank
>> account. i have heard too many stories about unexpected raids by
>> paypal. of course, i don't sell much and when i do i require a usps
>> money order.
>>
>> elise
>
>I'm amazed anyone is willing buy anything from you if you require a money
>order. I would never go through the hassle of leaving the house (I work at
>home), driving to the bank (I never have cash) and then to the USPS to wait
>in a very long, slow line, and then have to shell out $1.05 for the money
>order. Then I have to spend $.42 for a stamp, and a few cents for an
>envelope, find your address, then mail the envelope. Good grief, that adds
>several days to the wait time just to have the item shipped. And on top of
>all that, I won't get my 1-5% cash back on my purchase that I would normally
>get using my credit card through PayPal, but I've spent and extra $1.50 plus
>gas and 45 minutes of my time just for the "privilege" of buying from you.
>
>Checks and money orders? Are you people kidding? This is 2008, not 1908.
>It's simply not frugal to pay for things with checks and money orders
>because they cost too much in time and money.
>
>

i don't sell enough things to care whether i get your business.it is
just a way of maybe getting a little money ack on things that i will
freecycleif it doesn;t go on ebay.

elise

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:04 am
From: E Z Peaces

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:24:37 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>
>> BTW: PayPal's default payment method for purchases is
>> user-selectable. It is important actually to _read_ the information
>> presented on the PP site.
>
> Read this
> http://www.mightybargainhunter.com/2008/04/16/why-paypal-makes-it-a-chore-to-pay-by-credit-card/
>
> Which confirms what I said about my personal verified account.
> The default is the bank account, and can't be changed.
> If you know otherwise, and tell me how to do it, I will genuflect in
> your direction.
>
> --Vic

One user says PayPal has a $100 limit for credit cards. He tried to buy
a $40 item three weeks after buying a $75 item. He kept getting error
messages. Eventually he called his bank and learned that each time
PayPal had given him an error message, his CC had billed him $1. I wish
I knew more about that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Top 10 genuine methods of making money online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/54d64c45058a6b0d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 9:07 am
From: madhurimaniknepal

Top 10 genuine methods of making money online

Start making money immediately by visiting

http://www.how-to-make-money-online.netfirms.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Depression 2: 2008 - 2012
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b260cd3d2eb87704?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:02 am
From: "Lou"

"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
news:hfZGk.46391$Nu3.11569@newsfe14.iad...
> Lou wrote:
>
>>"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message news:gci5bi$k81$1@aioe.org...
>>
>>> My sister was listening to the BBC, and noticed that for some time now
>>> they have been referring to this mess as a "Depression", and not a
>>> recession.
>>>
>>> Here in the USA, they have only recently finally started publicly
>>> admitting that we are in a recession.
>>>
>>
>>A recession is at least two successive quarters of declining GDP. In
>>spite of appearances and regardless of mood, that hasn't happened yet. It
>>seems pretty likely to me that it will, but the jury is still out.
>>
>>
>
> The tax refund this past spring temporarily interrupted the technical
> reading for the recession (two consecutive down quarters), but it's quite
> obvious that was not enough to offset the adverse effects of the current
> financial meltdown. Current quarter is very likely back to a decline and
> many project next quarter will be down as well.

Whatever the reason, the USA has not yet been in a recession recently. I'm
all but certain it will, but it hasn't yet. Most of the time, you don't
know when a recession started or ended until it's over.

>>
>>> Meanwhile, my retirement account is currently worth about half what it
>>> was a few months ago.
>
> Unlike the previous recession where the tech stocks were the primary
> losses, this year it's been 20-40% losses across the board.
>
>
>
>>> Unemployment is going up and up - in our state it is higher than it has
>>> been in more than 16 years.

You know, that sounds bad, and I don't mean to belittle it, but 16 years ago
was 1992. We all lived through that. Back in the 1970's, anything under 7%
unemployment was considered full employment, and that at a time when both
spouses holding down a paying job was more of an exception instead of the
rule. We lived through that too.

> September state sales tax receipts here were reported this morning to be
> down 18% vs. last year - similar declines were reported for July and
> August as well.

Here in NJ, the governor is talking about slashing state spending - nice
change from the last time around, when what they did was raise taxes to make
up the shortfall.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: new hybrid batteries and overcharging
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d32953a33eed58b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 10:59 am
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

In article <gchq6h$a9m$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
john d hamilton <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:

>Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
>Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
>made by Sanyo).
>
>They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
>they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline, in
>that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
>The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries and
>which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light going
>off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>
>Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

According to the manufacturer web pages I've read, overcharging *any*
NiMH cell significantly can shorten its life... they're somewhat less
tolerant to this than nickel-cadmium cells. Also, it's somewhat more
difficult to detect the "full charge" state in a NiMH than it is in a
NiCd, especially at low charge rates.

Based on what I've read, there seem to be two charging schemes for
NiMH which the cells will tolerate fairly well:

- Slow charge (0.1 C or so) with a timed cutoff after 12 to 16 hours.
If you touch the cells during charging and find that they are
significantly warm, then they're probably "full". [They do warm up
somewhat during the normal charging process, so judging whether
they're warm enough to indicate full-charge is not always easy.]

- Fast charge (0.5C to 1C, or in some cases even higher) with primary
cutoff based on temperature rise, secondary cutoff based on zero
delta-V (i.e. the cell voltage stops rising when full-charge is
reached) and a timed cutoff as a failsafe.

Intermediate rates (above .1C and below .5C) have some
disadvantages... this amount of current may not result in a rapid
temperature rise at full-charge (thus making full-charge harder to
detect reliably) but is high enough to affect the cell's lifetime if
you do end up overcharging the cell.

It sounds to me as if your Energizer charger has its full-charge
detection circuit tuned properly for this newer type of NiMH cell. If
it's a slow (overnight) charger, you probably won't hurt the cells
significantly using it as long as you shut it down manually at the
proper time. If it's a "quick" or "fast" charger, it may very well be
overheating the cells enough to reduce their lifetime.

If you plan to use a lot of NiMH cells, or to recharge them
frequently, it might very well be a good investment to buy a
high-quality charger specifically designed for reliable fast-charging
of such cells. I like the Powerex MH-C9000 myself, as it's fast and
reliable and has a lot of useful features.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:34 am
From: E Z Peaces

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
>> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
>> made by Sanyo).
>
>> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
>> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the alkaline,
> in
>> that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
>> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
> and
>> which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
> going
>> off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go off.
>
>> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?
>
>
> Who knows? HAVE YOU ASKED THE MANUFACTURER? No, of course not. That's too
> much trouble, isn't it?
>
> Good grief. Do you expect the people in this group to have detailed
> technical information about about a new product?
>
> By the way, I've not heard of NiMH cells suffering from memory effect.
>
>
NiMH cells have done very well for me, using a fast charger with a light
for each cell. After ten years, all twelve still hold a charge for weeks.

If more than one cell is charged on the same circuit (the same indicator
light), the charger should shut off when the first cell is charged.
With each charging cycle, the state of charge of the lowest cell may be
lower and you'll get less service out of the set of batteries. It could
seem like memory effect. The solution is the same, to drain each cell
and then charge.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:41 am
From: "OG"

"john d hamilton" <bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote in message
news:gchq6h$a9m$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Have just bought the latest type of rechargeable *Hybrid* batteries from
> Maplin, made by Uniross, called Hybrio. (also Argos are now selling them
> made by Sanyo).
>
> They are supposed to have the advantage over Nickel Metal Hydride in that
> they don't have the 'memory effect'. Also the advantage of the Alkaline,
> in that they dont self discharge at quite a high rate when not being used.
>
> The charger I have is an Energiser designed for Nickel Hydride batteries
> and which indicates when a battery is fully charged, by the charging light
> going off. But when putting in the Hybrid batteries the light does not go
> off.
>
> Is there an harm done to these hybrid batteries if they are overcharged?

Have you used them yet or are you putting them in the charger straight from
the box?

If they are new they will be fully charged already. My understanding is that
the 'sensor' for detecting full charge is the drop in current when the cell
goes from 'active charging' to ' fully charged'**, so it suggests that you
are probably currently 'over'charging them.

Let them run down and then try again. Calculate the approximate charging
time and start charging so that you can check if the charger light goes out
within an hour or so of the expected time.

**I'm not an expert on this, so I'm happy to be corrected on the mechanism
for detecting full charge.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 11:46 am
From: tnom@mucks.net

On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 09:14:52 +0100, "john d hamilton"
<bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:

Would it be to much trouble to identify the specific charger?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: still more of your future
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dd29ccacba58417c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 8 2008 12:54 pm
From: Derald

How we got here, really (again):
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308186097284712&secure=3

How it's gonna be:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1502&status=article&id=308272109506203

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308271768901116

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308185654524278&secure=1

Political BS:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308186242376305&secure=4

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308272698295150

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308271974461547

http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=308185788382240&secure=2

==============================================================================

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