Frugal Living: Dec 5, 2007

Wednesday, December 5, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Canned Mackerel
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f049abff31c44b3a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 1:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Vic Smith <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote
>>>> PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>>>> They will be the ones who will wield real power

>>>>>> Nope, they dont have real power here.

>>>>> Take a drive through your new single family housing
>>>>> developments and observe the ethnic make up. Visit
>>>>> your universities. Also look up the faculty academic
>>>>> staff list. Form your own conclusions. I won't say any
>>>>> more on this subject as it will come across as gloating.

>>>> Since you've already come across as racist,
>>>> what's the big deal about gloating?

>>> Uhuh. We don't claim to be superior or have a god given right
>>> to anything. We earn it the old fashioned way. Work hard
>>> and excell where it counts. And pay the fair price for everything.
>>> Pro sports and Hollywood fluff we concede we won't equal
>>> you any time soon. Everything else is up for grabs.

>> He's spot on about coming across as a racist.

> Its only a matter of time when you'd come up with your line.

It isnt my line, its clearly Vic's line.

> Well no ethnic group have all the angels or all the devils. The point is that we
> are as good as anyone else whether in angels or in devils, and often better.

And that last is where you come across as a rascist, even if its true.

> Between yourself, Vic and others of your kind the basic assumption is that
> your kind have the god given right to lord it over people of a different color.

Thats just you projecting.

> Go reread your earlier posts about how obedient and
> submissive people of color should be to meet your approval.

I have never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like
that and have never ever said anything about 'people of color' either.

I in fact said that chinese immigrants to this country have been
a lot better value for us than the dregs of england ever were.

>> The most you can really say is that the chinese do do better
>> than some other groups at that stuff early in your last para, but
>> its silly to claim that its anything like universal with all chinese.

> Yeah I noticed. You tried so hard to distinguish between mainland
> Chinese and overseas Chinese as people of quite different qualities.

No I didnt.

> Got news for you. All Chinese are alike.

No they arent. By definition the recent chinese emigrants have self selected
a quite different group than those who chose to stay behind in china.

Thats true of all emigrants, not just the chinese.

> They already look the same.

We arent discussing looks.

>> We've also seen one hell of a capacity to flout the law,
>> particularly with hard drug trafficing and protection rackets.

> Beats regime changing and stealing the resources of other countries.

My country has never ever done anything like that.

> Criminal types get their comeuppance eventually.

Irrelevant to whether its an important consideration when
deciding who to accept as immigrants to your country.

> There has never been a case of criminal gangs
> exercising influence or power outside their circles.

Have a look at the Victor Chang case some time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Chang

> They make good newscopy but I bet you never met one in person or someone who did.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

Who you may or may not have met in spades.

>> And the rather bizarre outcome where the obnoxious brats of rich
>> chinese who have been kicked out of the schools back in china show
>> up here without their parents to attend school here, in schools that are
>> stupid enough to accept them here and are completely uncontrollable.
>> Those brats wont be achieving a damned thing in university, tho they will
>> now be accepted since we are happy to accept full fee paying foreign
>> students and to gouge their parents for those fees.

> Yep. We got lots of those too. Like you said your
> school administrators prefer money over good sense.

That is just ONE school thats actually stupid enough to do that.

> Don't know where this particular argument is going

Its rubbing your nose in the fact that your silly claims about chinese are just that.

> but the solution had always been in your hands.

Irrelevant to your silly claims about the chinese.

>> And everything else isnt up for grabs either, you see very
>> few chinese interested in politics in western countrys, and
>> even less get anywhere in politics in western countrys.

>> You dont see many at all get involved in the law either.

> Politicians come and go. The power behind the throne remains.

There is no throne anymore. And the chinese are never the power
behind the scenes in any western country for various reasons.

They arent even in places like Malaysia or Indonesia or Thailand either.

> When most of the jobs requiring education and high tech are not held by you

Corse they are.

> because your kids never made it into those university spots

Corse they do.

> you are not even in the game any more.

How odd that there are almost no chinese involved in our mining industry,
which just happens to produce a positive balance of trade in OUR favour
with both china and japan, something neither canada or america can manage.

> Raise a kid to college age and you'll know the feeling.

Nope.

> Chinese consider the law courts system and lawyers as a
> waste of time and money. Those who go into law prefer
> to practice corporate law, contract law and property law.
> Few go into criminal law and dramatic court appearances.

I didnt say anything about the criminal law.

> =======================

> Do read this story about racial discriminization and high politics.

Irrelevant to you coming across as a racist as Vic says.

> She's the most powerful black woman in the world.

No she isnt.

> Why can't I stand the sight of her?

Presumably you not only come across as a racist, you are one as well.

> Candace Allen has spent her whole life cheering on fellow
> African-Americans who have battled their way to the top. Yet the
> extraordinary career of Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of
> state, fills her only with revulsion and anger. Here she explains why

> Wednesday December 5, 2007
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2222067,00.html
> The Guardian

> I am African-American. We are a sentimental people in the main and we
> tend to track our own. We are aware of others of colour who cross our
> spaces. We look around asking: "How did she/he come to be here/there?
> Is his/her story extraordinary, coincidental or totally banal?"
> (....more)

What has this to do with your silly claims about chinese ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: donation scams over the phone
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cdf391d3cf5faa6c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 1:48 pm
From: "Don K"

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
news:4756bfd0$0$8612$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> What annoys me the most is having to stop whatever I'm doing to look at the caller ID on
> the phone, since I'm not willing to let voicemail pick up every single call. I could cut
> down on this by carrying a phone with me everywhere I go in the house, but I can't
> remember to do that. So my goal is to have the phone ring less.

The phones I have announce the name of the person calling based
on caller-ID or its phonebook memory. I let the machine take any
calls coming in as "out-of-area" or with an unrecognized exchange.

Also I've assigned distinct rings to family members so we don't
even have to wait for the voice announcement which takes a second
or two to begin.

Don

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 2:14 pm
From: sarge137

On Dec 4, 7:47 pm, "** Frank **" <noem...@xyz.net> wrote:
> I've been getting constant phone solicitation for donations, about once a
> week, for the police department during dinner times. I'm on the no call
> phone list but does this not appear to exclude certain groups. I've made the
> mistake of donating in the past and it turn out it wasn't for the local
> police but some other city outside my area. It also turn out the police only
> gets about 1% or 2% of the money with the remaining amount going to the
> telemarketers or fundraisers. Come to think of it, police in our area makes
> over $100K per year with overtime so do they really that hard up for a
> donation? Maybe I'll get some donuts and swing by the station in the
> morning. Its time to get caller ID as the fundraisers or scammers won't stop
> calling. I understand if its over the phone, its usually a scam. They are in
> full force during the holidays, so how do you guys handle this kind of scams
> and unwanted intrusions?

Charities that solicit by telephone are all scams. Repeating with
emphasis: CHARITIES THAT SOLICIT BY TELEPHONE ARE ALL SCAMS.

At my house calls from unknown or out of area numbers are picked up by
the answering machine, as are other calls from numbers or people we
don't recognize. Private or blocked numbers don't even ring the
phone. They get a recording telling them how to turn off their block
and call us back.

If you can't or won't screen your calls, simply hang up when you
become aware the caller is soliciting. You don't need to be polite or
even civil to the people who invade your privacy during dinner or
other family time.

Regards,
Sarge

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 6:56 pm
From: Logan Shaw

George Grapman wrote:
> ** Frank ** wrote:
>> I've been getting constant phone solicitation for donations, about
>> once a week, for the police department during dinner times.

> Several ways depending upon your mood and amount of time you want to
> spend.
>
> A-Simply hang up the phone.

[ methods B through G deleted ]

When I get charities calling me on the phone, I usually tell them I never
make a decision to buy anything or donate to any charity while on the
initial phone call, but if they'd give me their URL, I will take a look
at their web site and check their rating at charitynavigator.org at my
leisure. (Charity Navigator rates charities as to how efficient they
are with your money, and I would basically never donate to any charity
I hadn't heard of without checking them out there first.)

On a bit of a tangent, I donated some money to the ACLU last year[1] and
they called and e-mailed a lot after that. The second time someone called,
I told them, "Look, I agree with what you guys do, but I'd rather decide
whether to donate again on my own." The guy on the phone was very polite
and said they didn't want to pressure or bother anyone too much, that they
appreciated my past support, and that he'd leave me to it. So basically
they voluntarily eased off without my having to work at getting off the
phone. I was pleasantly surprised.

- Logan

[1] because I liked the Bill of Rights, and I think it would be nice if
we could have it back someday...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reverse Hiring Bonus: Legal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/01bee59f170fec8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 1:50 pm
From: "pepita@prodigy.net"

On Dec 5, 10:00 am, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even voluntarily,
> at a regular type company.

Sure there is, it is called an Internship.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 2:07 pm
From: "Don K"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:t2z5j.6197$3W.3606@trndny04...

> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even voluntarily, at a regular
> type company.

I would think that if you are dealing with the owner of a small business,
there is a lot of latitude in that regard. After all, it's a free country and
people are entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Of course that assumes there aren't issues with existing contracts, OSHA,
union agreements, insurance clauses, etc.

Don

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 4:37 pm
From: "Lou"

"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-4B6395.22011404122007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> In article
> <32c6a717-3e3d-4078-96c6-6fdce6f37093@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> jdrews88@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Hello. I have a question that I hope I can receive some feedback on.
> >
> > I live in a struggling manufacturing region of the country (few jobs,
> > high unemployment).
> >
> > Since last summer I have been unemployed and pounding the pavement
> > looking for work. Even minimum wage (no benefit) jobs are scarce where
> > I live. I'm really at the end of my rope. If I don't get hired for
> > something soon I don't know what I'm going to do. My savings are
> > almost gone.
> >
> > I've been considering doing something that I would have never
> > considered in a million years just a short time ago. I know all of you
> > have heard about hiring bonuses that companies offer new employees.
> >
> > I'm thinking of perhaps offering a potential employer an amount of
> > money so that I can get a job.
> >
> > I'm talking about maybe $300.00 or so. This would be a kind of
> > "reverse hiring bonus" I guess.
> >
> > This is not a plan to offer some human resource person a "bribe" to
> > pick me over the other candidates. I would be offering this money to
> > the company itself (or small business).
> >
> > What do you guys think? This is a serious post and I'm open to all
> > comments.
> >
> > I've always been a good employee at all my other jobs. But I've never
> > gone thru such a problem in finding work. I don't know what I'll do if
> > I don't find something soon.
> >
> > Is my plan even legal? Could it work for me?
> >
> > Even a minimum wage job without benefits would be good.
> >
> > It is near Christmas time. I'm sure there is someone out there who
> > would accept such an offer.
> >
> > Thank you all for any replies or insight you can give.
>
> I understand that you are desparate for a job, but I doubt this idea
> would pan out. Hiring someone is a major commitment. I seriously doubt
> $300 would make all that big a difference to a company who could afford
> to hire you. What might be better is to offer to work for free for a
> week at a place where they might be tempted to hire you, but aren't
> ready to make the commitment. Another option to consider is to move to
> an area where jobs are available.

It's not legal to work for free - federal and state minimum wage laws apply.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 4:39 pm
From: "Lou"

"George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:1Mz5j.79375$Um6.7977@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
> > "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:srhi-4B6395.22011404122007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> >> In article
> > snip
> >
> >> I understand that you are desparate for a job, but I doubt this idea
> >> would pan out. Hiring someone is a major commitment. I seriously doubt
> >> $300 would make all that big a difference to a company who could afford
> >> to hire you. What might be better is to offer to work for free for a
> >> week at a place where they might be tempted to hire you, but aren't
> >> ready to make the commitment. Another option to consider is to move to
> >> an area where jobs are available.
> >
> > i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even
voluntarily,
> > at a regular type company.
> >
> >
> There are exceptions such as a commission only job. For many years
> those jobs took out out no payroll deductions. The companies liked it
> because they avoided Social Security, unemployment,etc while some worker
> likes the idea of no withholding and they simply ignored the yearly 1099.
> In the 90's the IRS ruled that if the company provides you with a
> place to work along with needed tools you are a commissioned employee
> and are subject to withholding.

Even in commission only jobs, the employer must pay you a minimum wage if
you don't earn that much in commissions. It's usually done as a draw
against commission, and you pay the employer back when your earn commissions
in excess of minimum wage.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 4:59 pm
From: "Lou"

"pepita@prodigy.net" <scrapquilter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dcbd6556-09d0-4a34-906a-98da85b195c3@e1g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 5, 10:00 am, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even
voluntarily,
> > at a regular type company.
>
> Sure there is, it is called an Internship.

The US Department of Labor has a set of 6 criteria used in determining if an
employee is entitled to at least minimum wage or is a learner/trainee who
may be unpaid.

1. The training is similar to what would be given in a vocational school
2. The training if for the benefit of the student
3. The student does not displace a regular employee
4. The employer provides the training, derives no immediate advantage from
the student's activities - on occasion, normal operations may be impeded by
training
5. The student is not entitled to a regular job at the end of the
internship
6. Both the employer and the student understand that the student is not
entitled to wages for the time spent training.

The idea is that the interns experience should look like a training/learning
experience rather than like a job.

Unpaid internships exist all over the place, but generally in a for-profit
corporation, time worked should be paid for. At my company, interns get
$20/hour.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 2:44 pm
From: George Grapman

pepita@prodigy.net wrote:
> On Dec 5, 10:00 am, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even voluntarily,
>> at a regular type company.
>
> Sure there is, it is called an Internship.

And,by law, an intern can not be performing work that would normally
be done by a paid employee.In addition the work must be of educational
value to the intern.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 5:11 pm
From: George Grapman

Lou wrote:
> "pepita@prodigy.net" <scrapquilter@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:dcbd6556-09d0-4a34-906a-98da85b195c3@e1g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 5, 10:00 am, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even
> voluntarily,
>>> at a regular type company.
>> Sure there is, it is called an Internship.
>
> The US Department of Labor has a set of 6 criteria used in determining if an
> employee is entitled to at least minimum wage or is a learner/trainee who
> may be unpaid.
>
> 1. The training is similar to what would be given in a vocational school
> 2. The training if for the benefit of the student
> 3. The student does not displace a regular employee
> 4. The employer provides the training, derives no immediate advantage from
> the student's activities - on occasion, normal operations may be impeded by
> training
> 5. The student is not entitled to a regular job at the end of the
> internship
> 6. Both the employer and the student understand that the student is not
> entitled to wages for the time spent training.
>
> The idea is that the interns experience should look like a training/learning
> experience rather than like a job.
>
> Unpaid internships exist all over the place, but generally in a for-profit
> corporation, time worked should be paid for. At my company, interns get
> $20/hour.
>
>
I worked at a small company that used interns from a language school.
They were all from other countries and were here on student visas. Most
of the work we gave them involved calling up companies in their home
countries and getting contact information using their native language.
We also allowed them to practice English by taking incoming calls. WE
never had a paid receptionist. We knew they could not be paid so the
most we could for them was treating them to lunch.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 5:01 pm
From: George Grapman

Lou wrote:
> "George Grapman" <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> news:1Mz5j.79375$Um6.7977@newssvr12.news.prodigy.net...
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately wrote:
>>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:srhi-4B6395.22011404122007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
>>>> In article
>>> snip
>>>
>>>> I understand that you are desparate for a job, but I doubt this idea
>>>> would pan out. Hiring someone is a major commitment. I seriously doubt
>>>> $300 would make all that big a difference to a company who could afford
>>>> to hire you. What might be better is to offer to work for free for a
>>>> week at a place where they might be tempted to hire you, but aren't
>>>> ready to make the commitment. Another option to consider is to move to
>>>> an area where jobs are available.
>>> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even
> voluntarily,
>>> at a regular type company.
>>>
>>>
>> There are exceptions such as a commission only job. For many years
>> those jobs took out out no payroll deductions. The companies liked it
>> because they avoided Social Security, unemployment,etc while some worker
>> likes the idea of no withholding and they simply ignored the yearly 1099.
>> In the 90's the IRS ruled that if the company provides you with a
>> place to work along with needed tools you are a commissioned employee
>> and are subject to withholding.
>
> Even in commission only jobs, the employer must pay you a minimum wage if
> you don't earn that much in commissions. It's usually done as a draw
> against commission, and you pay the employer back when your earn commissions
> in excess of minimum wage.
>
>
Correct,but independent contractors are exempted. Sometime in,I
think, the early 90's the definition of independent contractor was
changed to meet the criteria that I mentioned in my earlier post.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 6:53 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <t2z5j.6197$3W.3606@trndny04>,
"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:srhi-4B6395.22011404122007@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
> > In article
> snip
>
> > I understand that you are desparate for a job, but I doubt this idea
> > would pan out. Hiring someone is a major commitment. I seriously doubt
> > $300 would make all that big a difference to a company who could afford
> > to hire you. What might be better is to offer to work for free for a
> > week at a place where they might be tempted to hire you, but aren't
> > ready to make the commitment. Another option to consider is to move to
> > an area where jobs are available.
>
> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even voluntarily,
> at a regular type company.

Why? If we are referring to the United States, its a free country. If
you are willing to work for free, I don't know of any area where that
would be illegal. If you do have an example where volunteering to work
is illegal, please provide the details.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 6:53 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <RQF5j.30598$Pv2.25553@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>,
George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:

> pepita@prodigy.net wrote:
> > On Dec 5, 10:00 am, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> i'm not sure it's legal to work for free (off the clock), even voluntarily,
> >> at a regular type company.
> >
> > Sure there is, it is called an Internship.
>
>
> And,by law, an intern can not be performing work that would normally
> be done by a paid employee.In addition the work must be of educational
> value to the intern.

Please cite that law.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Guide To Understanding Sleep Deprivation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7d5e2370c0ccd417?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 1:51 pm
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: switching batteries to extend life
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/442ce6fdfe066f9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 1:57 pm
From: "Bob F"

"johngood_____" <time.dream95@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote in message
news:bNB5j.898$h35.816@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> Recently i bought a 3 Watt LED torch (flashlight) and it takes two AA sized
> batteries in series. (i.e. both in line with each other with the + end of one
> touching the - ve end of the other).
>
> Now 'one' battery always runs down much faster than the other ( the one
> nearest the bulb end). Why is that?

There is no reason. Both batteries have exactly the same current drawn from
them. Unless, of course, something in your light is shorting out one of the
batteries.

Bob

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 4:17 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Dec 5, 1:07 pm, "johngood_____" <time.drea...@REMOOVEvirgin.net>
wrote:
> Recently i bought a 3 Watt LED torch (flashlight) and it takes two AA sized
> batteries in series. (i.e. both in line with each other with the + end of
> one touching the - ve end of the other).
>
> Now 'one' battery always runs down much faster than the other ( the one
> nearest the bulb end). Why is that?
>
> Also is there a way to replace the batteries to get the *maximum frugal*
> life from them. For instance always putting the best or worst up at the bulb
> end, when i ditch one and replace with a new one? Thanks

I have been working with batteries for decades and there is no
scientific reason for what you say to be true. Series batteries of
equal strength going in must discharge in a similar manner. The
exception that I have seen on cordless drills and possibly with your
led flashlight is that the manufacturer offers two settings on the
speed or light. With cordless drills for example, low speed may use 4
cells and high speed uses all six. In such a case, the four cells will
discharge faster than the extra booster two sells. People don't notice
the difference because all the cells are recharged at the same time
anyway.

I seriously doubt that this uneven discharge is occurring in your
case. A bit of minor research on series circuits would confirm what I
say.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 5:40 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <bNB5j.898$h35.816@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net>,
johngood_____ <time.dream95@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote:
>Recently i bought a 3 Watt LED torch (flashlight) and it takes two AA sized
>batteries in series. (i.e. both in line with each other with the + end of
>one touching the - ve end of the other).

>Now 'one' battery always runs down much faster than the other ( the one
>nearest the bulb end). Why is that?

>Also is there a way to replace the batteries to get the *maximum frugal*
>life from them. For instance always putting the best or worst up at the bulb
>end, when i ditch one and replace with a new one? Thanks

Batteries should be replaced in pairs (or however many the device uses) of
the same type and rating. When you replace one, you're leaving the partly
used on in the front, correct? That would be why it runs down first--it's
alreay partly down.

I'm in agreement with the other poster--if you're a heavy user of batteries,
get rechargables. Lithium-Ion work well, and will pay for themselves many
times over.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Yoko Onos' former driver tried to extort $2M from her, threating to
"release embarassing recordings...". What, he has a copy of her album?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free $10 Starbucks's Gift Card
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/29ba7c3f7d41ba5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 3:14 pm
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

Sign up now for more details and receive a $10 Starbucks's Gift Card.
You will receive your Starbucks's Gift Card in the next 6-8 weeks.

--
The Best Freebies

All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Vera Wang Princess Perfume by Coty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/db3902123476de55?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 3:19 pm
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

Get a complimentary sample of Vera Wang Princess Perfume by Coty.
A new spirit in fragrance. Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery.

Available to U.S. Residents only. Limit one sample per household.
You must be 14 or older to receive this sample.

--
The Best Freebies

All free products are available at http://TheBestFreebies.com/ and
are intended for families, businesses, and individuals residing in
the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: more laptop selection help
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/614f763badc82c6b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 3:21 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:41:57 -0500, Jon v Leipzig <JVL@myday.com>
wrote:

>Dennis wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 07:31:39 -0500, Jon v Leipzig <JVL@myday.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Last I heard, this Vista's been such a flop, they even have a service
>>> pack 3 in the works, for XP.
>>
>> XP SP3 is mostly just a roll up of all the security patches and bug
>> fixes that have been realeased (through Windows Updates) since SP2.
>> All in one convenient package.
>>
>> Microsoft will continue to support XP for quite some time yet, even
>> after they quit selling new XP licenses. They have commited to
>> "Mainstream" support until April 2009 and "Extended" support until
>> April 2014.
>>
>> Dennis (evil)
>
>
>So yer saying it's already out...the SP3???

I'm in the biz, so I have a Beta that I've been testing. Just
downloaded RC1 today.

You commoners will just have to wait. :-)

> I've been too busy,
>haven't kept up with Windoz. Guess I don't need it then, if I'm doing
>the Update thing... I got SP2, works flawlessly.

There is a bit of performance boost with SP3 on some PCs, so you may
want to give it a shot.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Renting VS Buying Homes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/37be5c6af5aee907?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 3:44 pm
From: Dennis

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:46:28 -0500, clams casino
<PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:

>A significant portion of a landlord's profit is from their tax
>deductions (essentially subsidies). Many renters would never qualify
>for any of these deductions if they owned a comparable 1200 ft2 home /
>condo. In some respect, much of the landlord's profit likely actually
>comes from tax payers rather than the renter.

A landlord gets to subtract his expenses from gross receipts to arrive
at taxable income, just like any other business. Hardly a subsidy.

Dennis (evil)
--
What the government gives, it must first take.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 5:08 pm
From: "Lou"

"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m93cl31s41hfis5l3vojunr6ct06ju2gr6@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 19:41:46 -0500, "Lou" <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
> >news:gsk5j.5502$pq.2214@newsfe24.lga...
> >> Since I do not file every magazine article I've ever read, I am
> >> currently unable to provide a reference. I've wasted about 15
minutes
> >> trying to search google, but could never come up with a proper set of
> >> search conditions to get anything close other than the above reference.
> >>
> >> Do you have any references to support the contrary? That the number
> >> of filers using the long form for deductions are constant or
increasing?
> >
> >Since it's you who made the assertion, it should be you who has to back
it
> >up. However, according to http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/05in01fg.xls we
> >can see the following:
> >
> >For 2005, 134,462,537 individual tax returns were filed, an increase of
1.6%
> >over 2004
> >Of these returns, 81,144,182 used form 1040 - an increase of 1.1%
> >31,607,574 used form 1040A - an increase of 2.4%
> >21,710,782 used form 1040EZ - an increase of 2.3%
> >74,813,073 filed electronically, an increase of 7.7%
> >
> >According to http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/03indtr.pdf the number of
> >returns taking the standard deduction in 2003 rose by 2.4% to 64.9% of
all
> >returns filed - HOWEVER, the increase is attributed to a change in the
law
> >making the standard deduction for married taxpayers filing jointly to
twice
> >that of single taxpayers (previously, it had been less).
> >
> No HOWEVER about it; an increase is an increase.

A change in the law makes the data not directly comparable. If the law
pre-2003 had been the same as it was post-2003, there may have been no
change in percentages at all. We'll never know.

> You've shown clams to be correct for the latest figures you have
> found, which is a 2.4% increase in those taking the standard deduction
> from 2002 to 2003. Assuming that percentage increase represents
> "fewer and fewer" filers itemizing, of course.
> But to reinforce that, here are the figures for 2002-2004, taken from
> the tables (Individual Income Tax Returns with Itemized Deductions and
> Individual Income Tax, All Returns) at
> http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/indtaxstats/article/0,,id=133414,00.html
>
> Year Itemized Total PCT
> 2004 43335237 132226042 0.327736022
> 2003 43949531 130423626 0.336975227
> 2002 45647551 130076443 0.350928654
>
> This also backs up clams. Your 2005 figures serve no point in this,
> as they don't shed light on itemization, which requires Schedule A.
> I file form 1040 and haven't itemized for a few years.
> The increased standard deduction has made it unnecessary.
> There are no doubt other economic reasons for "fewer and fewer"
> (as a pct of total) people itemizing, but I won't speculate on what
> they are.
> Unless you have more recent (2005-2006) itemization statistics, clams
> appears to be correct.

I don't really care if clams is correct or not - I only asked that he back
up an unsubstantiated claim.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Learn Chinese in Beijing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b3f380a1b2d0bc1a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 5:42 pm
From: Chinese training in Beijing

Learn Chinese with Juzhongde
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Tel/Fax: 0086-10-62130326

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Men and women needed for research study
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b0bffda7e724b091?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 5:49 pm
From: lkerryy@gmail.com

This is a research study about menstruation. People of all ages may
participate in this study. This questionnaire will only take a few
minutes to complete and it's anonymous. All results will be
appreciated.

Thank you.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=52ZcnZF4XBMGhKTWRuJTvA_3d_3d

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Christmas potpourri - under $10
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ccdeaf90af8c6ad8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 8:46 am
From: clams casino

MistyD wrote:

>Vermont-based YankeeScents offers a variety of holiday blends and
>other potpourri, many for under $10, as well as similar items. These
>make a great gift idea!
>
>
>

Considering you posted this via google groups onto a number of
newsgroups, one can only conclude this is SPAM.

Hint - Only an idiot would buy spammed items.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ubú : Suite of the imaginary beings
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/37b8d6330221089b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 8:46 am
From: Gabriel

If you like, take a listen to some songs from the "Suite of the
imaginary beings", Ubú group, inspirated on the Jorge Luis Borges'
book. You can hear it at
http://www.myspace.com/preubu
Thanks, & greetings from Argentina

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 8:49 am
From: "John Weiss"

"Jon v Leipzig" <JVL@myday.com> wrote...
>
> So yer saying it's already out...the SP3???

Only beta. I read yesterday that RC3 was released for testing. IIRC, it should
be out by Feb.

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 3 2007 4:37 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:12:31 -0600, Vic Smith
<thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:00:17 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 06:40:27 +1100, "Rod Speed"
>><rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> They will be the ones who will wield real power
>>>
>>>Nope, they dont have real power here.
>>
>>Take a drive through your new single family housing developments and
>>observe the ethnic make up. Visit your universities. Also look up
>>the faculty academic staff list. Form your own conclusions. I won't
>>say any more on this subject as it will come across as gloating.
>
>Since you've already come across as racist, what's the big deal about
>gloating?
>
>--Vic

Uhuh. We don't claim to be superior or have a god given right to
anything. We earn it the old fashioned way. Work hard and excell
where it counts. And pay the fair price for everything. Pro sports
and Hollywood fluff we concede we won't equal you any time soon.
Everything else is up for grabs.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:26 am
From: "Rod Speed"

PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote
> Vic Smith <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote
>> PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> They will be the ones who will wield real power

>>>> Nope, they dont have real power here.

>>> Take a drive through your new single family housing developments
>>> and observe the ethnic make up. Visit your universities. Also look
>>> up the faculty academic staff list. Form your own conclusions. I
>>> won't say any more on this subject as it will come across as gloating.

>> Since you've already come across as racist, what's the big deal about gloating?

> Uhuh. We don't claim to be superior or have a god given right to
> anything. We earn it the old fashioned way. Work hard and excell
> where it counts. And pay the fair price for everything. Pro sports
> and Hollywood fluff we concede we won't equal you any time soon.
> Everything else is up for grabs.

He's spot on about coming across as a racist.

The most you can really say is that the chinese do do better
than some other groups at that stuff early in your last para, but
its silly to claim that its anything like universal with all chinese.

We've also seen one hell of a capacity to flout the law,
particularly with hard drug trafficing and protection rackets.

And the rather bizarre outcome where the obnoxious brats of rich
chinese who have been kicked out of the schools back in china show
up here without their parents to attend school here, in schools that are
stupid enough to accept them here and are completely uncontrollable.
Those brats wont be achieving a damned thing in university, tho they
will now be accepted since we are happy to accept full fee paying
foreign students and to gouge their parents for those fees.

And everything else isnt up for grabs either, you see very
few chinese interested in politics in western countrys, and
even less get anywhere in politics in western countrys.

You dont see many at all get involved in the law either.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:50 am
From: PaPaPeng

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 05:26:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>>>>>> They will be the ones who will wield real power
>
>>>>> Nope, they dont have real power here.
>
>>>> Take a drive through your new single family housing developments
>>>> and observe the ethnic make up. Visit your universities. Also look
>>>> up the faculty academic staff list. Form your own conclusions. I
>>>> won't say any more on this subject as it will come across as gloating.
>
>>> Since you've already come across as racist, what's the big deal about gloating?
>
>> Uhuh. We don't claim to be superior or have a god given right to
>> anything. We earn it the old fashioned way. Work hard and excell
>> where it counts. And pay the fair price for everything. Pro sports
>> and Hollywood fluff we concede we won't equal you any time soon.
>> Everything else is up for grabs.
>
>He's spot on about coming across as a racist.

Its only a matter of time when you'd come up with your line. Well no
ethnic group have all the angels or all the devils. The point is that
we are as good as anyone else whether in angels or in devils, and
often better. Between yourself, Vic and others of your kind the basic
assumption is that your kind have the god given right to lord it over
people of a different color. Go reread your earlier posts about how
obedient and submissive people of color should be to meet your
approval.
>
>The most you can really say is that the chinese do do better
>than some other groups at that stuff early in your last para, but
>its silly to claim that its anything like universal with all chinese.

Yeah I noticed. You tried so hard to distinguish between mainland
Chinese and overseas Chinese as people of quite different qualities.
Got news for you. All Chinese are alike. They already look the same.
>
>We've also seen one hell of a capacity to flout the law,
>particularly with hard drug trafficing and protection rackets.

Beats regime changing and stealing the resources of other countries.
Criminal types get their comeuppance eventually. There has never been
a case of criminal gangs exercising influence or power outside their
circles. They make good newscopy but I bet you never met one in
person or someone who did.
>
>And the rather bizarre outcome where the obnoxious brats of rich
>chinese who have been kicked out of the schools back in china show
>up here without their parents to attend school here, in schools that are
>stupid enough to accept them here and are completely uncontrollable.
>Those brats wont be achieving a damned thing in university, tho they
>will now be accepted since we are happy to accept full fee paying
>foreign students and to gouge their parents for those fees.

Yep. We got lots of those too. Like you said your school
administrators prefer money over good sense. Don't know where this
particular argument is going but the solution had always been in your
hands.
>
>And everything else isnt up for grabs either, you see very
>few chinese interested in politics in western countrys, and
>even less get anywhere in politics in western countrys.
>
>You dont see many at all get involved in the law either.

Politicians come and go. The power behind the throne remains. When
most of the jobs requiring education and high tech are not held by you
because your kids never made it into those university spots you are
not even in the game any more. Raise a kid to college age and
you'll know the feeling.

Chinese consider the law courts system and lawyers as a waste of time
and money. Those who go into law prefer to practice corporate law,
contract law and property law. Few go into criminal law and dramatic
court appearances.

=======================

Do read this story about racial discriminization and high politics.

She's the most powerful black woman in the world. Why can't I stand
the sight of her?

Candace Allen has spent her whole life cheering on fellow
African-Americans who have battled their way to the top. Yet the
extraordinary career of Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state,
fills her only with revulsion and anger. Here she explains why

Wednesday December 5, 2007
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2222067,00.html
The Guardian

I am African-American. We are a sentimental people in the main and we
tend to track our own. We are aware of others of colour who cross our
spaces. We look around asking: "How did she/he come to be here/there?
Is his/her story extraordinary, coincidental or totally banal?"
(....more)

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:58 am
From: Vic Smith

On Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:50:52 GMT, PaPaPeng <PaPaPeng@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Between yourself, Vic and others of your kind

I take that to mean non-Chinese. No surprise.

--Vic

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 9:32 am
From: turtlelover

George wrote:

<snip>

> The best way to give to a charity is to check out their financials.
> There is a web site (which I can't remember) that details how much money
> actually goes to do something useful for various charities. I then get
> $0.35 money orders and scribble my name and no address and send them.

www.charitynavigator.org

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:07 am
From: "johngood_____"

Recently i bought a 3 Watt LED torch (flashlight) and it takes two AA sized
batteries in series. (i.e. both in line with each other with the + end of
one touching the - ve end of the other).

Now 'one' battery always runs down much faster than the other ( the one
nearest the bulb end). Why is that?

Also is there a way to replace the batteries to get the *maximum frugal*
life from them. For instance always putting the best or worst up at the bulb
end, when i ditch one and replace with a new one? Thanks

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:35 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

johngood_____ wrote:
> Recently i bought a 3 Watt LED torch (flashlight) and it takes two AA sized
> batteries in series. (i.e. both in line with each other with the + end of
> one touching the - ve end of the other).
>
> Now 'one' battery always runs down much faster than the other ( the one
> nearest the bulb end). Why is that?
>
> Also is there a way to replace the batteries to get the *maximum frugal*
> life from them. For instance always putting the best or worst up at the bulb
> end, when i ditch one and replace with a new one? Thanks

For what it's worth, I find that batteries that are too weak for
flashlights still have enough juice to power my Walkman for a while
(even longer if I am using the radio rather than driving a cassette).

The most frugal (and most ecological) would be to use rechargeables.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
I believe I found the missing link between animal
and civilized man. It is us. -Konrad Lorenz

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:36 am
From: "Rod Speed"

johngood_____ <time.dream95@REMOOVEvirgin.net> wrote:

> Recently i bought a 3 Watt LED torch (flashlight) and it takes two AA sized batteries in series. (i.e. both in line
> with each other with the + end of one touching the - ve end of the other).

> Now 'one' battery always runs down much faster than the other ( the one nearest the bulb end).

Not even possible if they are in series.

> Why is that?

> Also is there a way to replace the batteries to get the *maximum
> frugal* life from them. For instance always putting the best or worst
> up at the bulb end, when i ditch one and replace with a new one?

You shouldnt be replacing just one at a time, you should be replacing both at once.

Thats your problem, you're replacing them one at a time and get the illusion that the one
at the bulb end is running down quicker because thats the one that has got used the most.

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:25 am
From: James

On Dec 5, 11:33 am, clams casino <PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com>
wrote:
> jdoe wrote:
> >On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 07:45:22 -0500, clams casino
> ><PeterGrif...@drunkin-clam.com> wrote:
>
> >>As others have shown, homes appreciate about 4-5% over the long haul,
> >>but the same dollars have historically appreciated 9-10% with stocks.
>
> >assuming your claim to be correct, while your money could earn greater
> >returns elsewhere, a person usually needs a place to live, so rather
> >than paying rent, why wouldn't it be better to acquire an asset that
> >offers a return on investment? when paying rent your money is gone and
> >there is no ROI
> >__________________________________________
>
> Depends. Several years ago, I rented a quite nice two-BR apartment
> for a year while I relocated. Simple CD interest from my equity nearly
> paid for the apartment where I did pay taxes on that interest, but paid
> no (direct) property taxes, mortgage, water or sewer for that year. I
> also had free access to their gym, swimming pool & tennis courts with no
> maintenance costs and a reduced insurance cost. An added benefit was
> no mowing of the yard plus not only was the snow removed quickly from
> the parking lot, but the help brushed the snow off the cars - well
> before sun up on the day of the storms.
>
> Banking the property taxes while paying no interest and enjoying a full
> standard deduction was sweet - more than a typical home appreciation
>
> Bottom line is that is would be foolish to pay the same for rent as one
> would pay for home ownership. Trick is to invest the difference, not
> simply spend it. Not everyone needs / desires a 3-5 BR home when an
> apartment can be adequate.- Hide quoted text -

The other factor is how long you plan to stay in one place.

Most people I know who relocate for work rent until they know the city
better. If you buy then decide to move within a couple of years, the
costs of buying (RE commissions, lawyers fees etc) can add up.

The same can be said if you are single and mobile.
James

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:43 am
From: "Chloe"

>> Depends. Several years ago, I rented a quite nice two-BR apartment
>> for a year while I relocated. Simple CD interest from my equity nearly
>> paid for the apartment where I did pay taxes on that interest, but paid
>> no (direct) property taxes, mortgage, water or sewer for that year. I
>> also had free access to their gym, swimming pool & tennis courts with no
>> maintenance costs and a reduced insurance cost. An added benefit was
>> no mowing of the yard plus not only was the snow removed quickly from
>> the parking lot, but the help brushed the snow off the cars - well
>> before sun up on the day of the storms.
>>
>> Banking the property taxes while paying no interest and enjoying a full
>> standard deduction was sweet - more than a typical home appreciation
>>
>> Bottom line is that is would be foolish to pay the same for rent as one
>> would pay for home ownership. Trick is to invest the difference, not
>> simply spend it. Not everyone needs / desires a 3-5 BR home when an
>> apartment can be adequate.- Hide quoted text -
>
> The other factor is how long you plan to stay in one place.
>
> Most people I know who relocate for work rent until they know the city
> better. If you buy then decide to move within a couple of years, the
> costs of buying (RE commissions, lawyers fees etc) can add up.
>
> The same can be said if you are single and mobile.

I certainly agree that there can be circumstances where it makes more sense
economically to rent than to own. The fact is, though, that in Clams'
glowing description of his renting experience, he's not mentioning one
economic factor that's close to 100 percent certain: he was paying what it
actually cost to live in that apartment PLUS something to constitute profit
for the landlord AFTER the landlord paid all the expenses of owning and
renting out the property. Yes, there might be times when one would want to
do that, but it's at least something people should be aware of and factor
into their decision.

My own experiences with renting weren't all that great, what with problems
getting landlords to maintain the property, plus noise and aggravation from
living in such close proximity to other people. The day may come when I have
to go back, or at least need to go back, but I'm not entirely looking
forward to it.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:03 am
From: clams casino

Chloe wrote:

>
>I certainly agree that there can be circumstances where it makes more sense
>economically to rent than to own. The fact is, though, that in Clams'
>glowing description of his renting experience, he's not mentioning one
>economic factor that's close to 100 percent certain: he was paying what it
>actually cost to live in that apartment PLUS something to constitute profit
>for the landlord AFTER the landlord paid all the expenses of owning and
>renting out the property. Yes, there might be times when one would want to
>do that, but it's at least something people should be aware of and factor
>into their decision.
>
>
>
Of course, that's true for most everything you buy. Only common
exception I can think of are the many clueless sellers on eBay who seem
to have no clue as to their actual selling costs.

In fact, the bank charges their cost to borrow PLUS something to
contribute to profit on their loans as well, but certainly that is not
going to stop anyone from getting a loan.

In reality, what someone pays for their items has NO effect on what I am
willing to pay. Either it's worth the price or it's not worth the price.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:22 am
From: "Chloe"

"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
news:eCC5j.590$3J5.347@newsfe20.lga...
><snip> In fact, the bank charges their cost to borrow PLUS something to
>contribute to profit on their loans as well, but certainly that is not
>going to stop anyone from getting a loan. <snip>

I'm sure it's stopped many people from getting loans.

But my only point was that whereas a direct mortgage borrower pays an
interest rate that indeed includes a profit for the lender, a renter pays an
amount that also covers the profit for the lender TO the landlord, PLUS a
profit for the landlord. That's an expenditure of money that has never
really appealed to me. Your Mileage obviously varies.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 12:46 pm
From: clams casino

Chloe wrote:

>"clams casino" <PeterGriffin@drunkin-clam.com> wrote in message
>news:eCC5j.590$3J5.347@newsfe20.lga...
>
>
>><snip> In fact, the bank charges their cost to borrow PLUS something to
>>contribute to profit on their loans as well, but certainly that is not
>>going to stop anyone from getting a loan. <snip>
>>
>>
>
>I'm sure it's stopped many people from getting loans.
>
>But my only point was that whereas a direct mortgage borrower pays an
>interest rate that indeed includes a profit for the lender, a renter pays an
>amount that also covers the profit for the lender TO the landlord, PLUS a
>profit for the landlord. That's an expenditure of money that has never
>really appealed to me. Your Mileage obviously varies.
>
>
>
>
A significant portion of a landlord's profit is from their tax
deductions (essentially subsidies). Many renters would never qualify
for any of these deductions if they owned a comparable 1200 ft2 home /
condo. In some respect, much of the landlord's profit likely actually
comes from tax payers rather than the renter.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Spider-Man comic subscription - 53% off!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ab0a4e1b4e8dd6b4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:30 am
From: "OhioGuy"

> and I just turned down a $23/yr subscription to Newsweek (39 cents/

The difference is primarily that those are magazines, not comics; news,
not entertainment. There isn't a whole lot of a market for reselling used
issues of Newsweek, for example. Comics can actually go UP in price. I
sold 5 of my used issues of Spider-Man last year for $4 each, just because
the demand was there. Yes, I got $20 for 5 issues. Have you ever done that
with your Newsweek issues? Selling those 5 issues paid for nearly two years
of comics.

> Somehow $1.39/issue doesn't sound all that cheap. >Likely worthwhile
> if you want the comics, but hardly >cheap.

I'll give you that - I still remember when comics were 50c or less each,
retail. The main reason the retail prices went up was that retailers didn't
want to carry $1 comics when they could sell a $3.99 magazine and make a
larger profit off of the same shelf space.

Comics had to increase their retail prices just so large retailers would
keep selling them. Sad, but true. Of course, part of it was keeping up
with inflation and increased prices for ink, paper pulp, etc.

It may not be "cheap", but this is still an amazingly low price for any
comic book. Like I said, I've been watching for quite some time, and I
haven't seen a deal this good in about 10 years.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:05 am
From: clams casino

Ohio Guy wrote:

>I still remember when comics were 50c or less each,
>retail.
>

Hmm - you are quite young. I recall 5 cent and 10 cent comics. Too
bad I didn't keep them (in good condition).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: negotiating with credit cards companies
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/eda22dda78d8abeb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:35 am
From: will.cary@yahoo.com

On Nov 26, 8:56 pm, will.c...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm already 1 month behind on mycreditcards. I've suffered a few
> setbacks (business/job related)and catching is possible but difficult
> (I run a "seasonal" business, we slow down, but still work, in the
> winter). If they would allow my next (normal, single payment, instead
> of having to make 2) payment to make me "current", I think I can make
> it (I should be able to pay off/down all these cars by Aug. 2008) and
> keep mycreditin decent shape.
>
> How should I approach them, I don't want them to panic and close the
> accounts, but like many Americans (who have been effected by the
> downturn in the economy) I need a little help.
>
> Thank you
>
> WC

I need to bump this up. Can anyone give me a good scripted response
when I call them, I don't know what to expect?

I'm running out of time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Subscribe via RSS feed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18c3a86eaefb9409?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:41 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

Many are familiar with the work of the Dollar Stretcher and the Tightwad
Gazette, but not my work - "Cheapo Groovo". I believe their work is
groundbreaking stuff. I'm trying to take what they have done to the next
level.

Here are the ways I have tried to improve on their work and all the
other "money" blogs:
1. Income and investing posts as well as frugal posts
2. Focusing on universal money saving ideas, no matter your life
stage
3. Easy to read posts that can be read and absorbed in seconds
4. Multimedia presentations - audio, video, photos
5. Eliminate information overload - no more than 15 new posts per
month
6. An actual M.B.A. is behind the posts not a "want to be"

Please understand that I'm not saying to ignore discussion boards or
other web sites. Other folks do a much better job at recipes, raising
kids cheaply, or how to change your psychological makeup so you become a
frugal zealot.

Peace

Cheapo Groovo

==============================================================================
TOPIC: welcome to see our company website www.globwholesale.com cheap
wholesale jordan-gucci-prada-puma-trainer-handbag-purses-sneakers-nokia-mp3-mp
4-jeans-boots-sweater-tshir-wathes-shoes and so on
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/43b3297e7dbff2c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 10:41 am
From: globwholesale@126.com

www.globwholesale.com
This is glob wholesale Trading Co. LTD., which is united by lots of
footwear manufacturers in China. We deal with brand shoes like Nike,
Adidas, Puma, gucci,prada,lacoste,Timberland boots, etc. We have
especially Nikes like Air Jordan,Shox (Nz Oz R3 R4 R5 Turbo), AirMax
(ITD TN 90 95 97 2003 2004 2005 180 360), Airforceone,James, Dunk,and
other products: bape, prada,Gucci shoes, jeans,handbag,
lacoste,polo,bape jacket and so on. We can supply mixed colours and
sizes as you like. Drop shipping can be done also. Normally we need 24
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We are waiting for you. Best regards

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Golf Destination Club
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7a2539525413853e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:03 am
From: "TheNewsMan4@gmail.com"

Hi there!

I wanted to take the opportunity to present to you The Markers, the
first ever golfers residence club with locations all over the world.

An industry leader in the rapidly growing destination/residence club
industry, The Markers is an upscale golfer's residence club with a
portfolio of luxury homes situated among 36 of the world's most
renowned golf destinations. Members can live and golf wherever they
want without the hassle of mortgages, home upkeep, maintenance and
playing the same private golf course over and over.

We think that The Markers will be of great interest to any golf fans
out there, and will be sending out weekly emails to inform you of the
latest news of this great company.

Please feel free to contact me if you have interest in learning more
about the company or have any questions in general.

Best,
Jeff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone now building or is interested in building a pellet stove?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f4e5d1dbd8da0b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 11:34 am
From: BadBill

I was wondering if anyone has started a project to build a pellet
stove. If there is anyone out there, I would like someone to partner
with to design and build a complete low-cost pellet stove. I have
some electronics/computer/mechanical background so am willing to
stumble thru the process. Objective would be an "Open Source" like
project that anybody could copy. Possible follow up of some kind of
pelletizing system. My thoughts would include the use of wood chips,
after drying, from a local tree trimmer.

Thanks

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 12:07 pm
From: James

On Dec 5, 2:34 pm, BadBill <wjwe...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone has started a project to build a pellet
> stove. If there is anyone out there, I would like someone to partner
> with to design and build a complete low-cost pellet stove. I have
> some electronics/computer/mechanical background so am willing to
> stumble thru the process. Objective would be an "Open Source" like
> project that anybody could copy. Possible follow up of some kind of
> pelletizing system. My thoughts would include the use of wood chips,
> after drying, from a local tree trimmer.
>
> Thanks

Don't tell your insurance company or you might have a very difficult
time with home insureance. In my province I had better get
professionals to install a factory made woodstove or gas fireplace, or
pellet stove, or I will have trouble finding a company to insure my
house.

James

==============================================================================
TOPIC: YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6858c3dc592005a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 5 2007 12:31 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

he's mr flipflop on pork: no, don't eat it; never mind, it's okay to eat it.
oops, no don't eat it. wanna know the reason why women have to be so
covered up in islam? because THIS MAN could not control his sexual
impulses. that's why.

"aassime abdellatif" <aassime1@hotmail.fr> wrote in message
news:53268657-6945-4277-9817-f54b06181b74@s12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> In The Name Of Allaah,
>
> Most Gracious, Most Merciful
>
>
> YOU MUST KNOW THIS MAN
> MUHAMMAD
> (May peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him)
> You may be an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to anyone of
> the religious denominations that exist in the world today. You may be
> a Communist or a believer in democracy and freedom. No matter what
> you
> are, and no matter what your religious and political beliefs,
> personal
> and social habits happen to be - YOU MUST STILL KNOW THIS MAN!
>
>
> He was by far the most remarkable man that ever set foot on this
> earth. He preached a religion, founded a state, built a nation, laid
> down a moral code, initiated numberless social and political reforms,
> established a dynamic and powerful society to practice and represent
> his teachings, and completely revolutionized the worlds of human
> thought and action for all times to come.
>
>
> HIS NAME IS MUHAMMAD, peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon him
> and he accomplished all these wonders in the unbelievably short span
> of twenty-three years.
>
>
> Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him was born in
> Arabia on the 20th of August, in the year 570 of the Christian era,
> and when he died after 63 years, the whole of the Arabian Peninsula
> had changed from paganism and idol-worship to the worship of One God;
> from tribal quarrels and wars to national solidarity and cohesion;
> from drunkenness and debauchery to sobriety and piety; from
> lawlessness and anarchy to disciplined living; from utter moral
> bankruptcy to the highest standards of moral excellence. Human
> history
> has never known such a complete transformation of a people or a place
> before or since!
>
>
> The Encyclopedia Britannica calls him "the most successful of all
> religious personalities of the world". Bernard Shaw said about him
> that if Muhammad were alive today he would succeed in solving all
> those problems which threaten to destroy human civilization in our
> times. Thomas Carlysle was simply amazed as to how one man, single-
> handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a
> most
> powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades. Napoleon and
> Gandhi never tired of dreaming of a society along the lines
> established by this man in Arabia fourteen centuries ago.
>
>
> Indeed no other human being ever accomplished so much, in such
> diverse
> fields of human thought and behavior, in so limited a space of time,
> as did Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him. He
> was a religious teacher, a social reformer, a moral guide, a
> political
> thinker, a military genius, an administrative colossus, a faithful
> friend, a wonderful companion, a devoted husband, a loving father -
> all in one. No other man in history ever excelled or equaled him in
> any of these difficult departments of life.
>
>
> The world has had its share of great personalities. But these were
> one
> sided figures who distinguished themselves in but one or two fields
> such as religious thought or military leadership. None of the other
> great leaders of the world ever combined in himself so many different
> qualities to such an amazing level of perfection as did Muhammad,
> peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him.
>
>
> The lives and teachings of other great personalities of the world are
> shrouded in the mist of time. There is so much speculation about the
> time and the place of their birth, the mode and style of their life,
> the nature and detail of their teachings and the degree and measure
> of
> their success or failure that it is impossible for humanity today to
> reconstruct accurately and precisely the lives and teachings of those
> men.
>
>
> Not so this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
> him. Not only was he born in the fullest blaze of recorded history,
> but every detail of his private and public life, of his actions and
> utterances, has been accurately documented and faithfully preserved
> to
> our day. The authenticity of the information so preserved is vouched
> for not only by faithful followers but also by unbiased critics and
> open-minded scholars.
>
>
> At the level of ideas there is no system of thought and belief-
> secular
> or religious, social or political-which could surpass or equal
> ISLAAM-
> the system which Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
> him propounded. In a fast changing world, while other systems have
> undergone profound transformations, Islaam alone has remained above
> all change and mutation, and retained its original form for the past
> 1400 years. What is more, the positive changes that are taking place
> in the world of human thought and behavior, truly and consistently
> reflect the healthy influence of Islam in these areas. Further, it is
> not given to the best of thinkers to put their ideas completely into
> practice, and to see the seeds of their labors grow and bear fruit,
> in
> their own lifetime. Except of course, Muhammad, peace and blessings
> of
> God Almighty be upon him, who not only preached the most wonderful
> ideas but also successfully translated each one of them into practice
> in his own lifetime. At the time of his death his teachings were not
> mere precepts and ideas straining for fulfillment, but had become the
> very core of the life of tens of thousands of perfectly trained
> individuals, each one of whom was a marvelous personification of
> everything that Muhammad peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
> him taught and stood for. At what other time or place and in relation
> to what other political, social, religious system, philosophy or
> ideology-did the world ever witness such a perfectly amazing
> phenomenon?
>
>
> Indeed no other system or ideology secular or religious, social or
> political, ancient or modern - could ever claim the distinction of
> having been put into practice in its fullness and entirety EVEN ONCE
> in this world, either before or after the death of its founder.
> Except
> of course ISLAAM, the ideology preached by Muhammad, peace and
> blessings of God Almighty be upon him which was established as a
> complete way of life by the teacher himself, before he departed from
> this world. History bears testimony to this fact and the greatest
> skeptics have no option but to concede this point.
>
>
> In spite of these amazing achievements and in spite of the countless
> absolutely convincing and authentic miracles performed by him and the
> phenomenal success which crowned his efforts, he did not for a moment
> claim to be God or God's incarnation or Son - but only a human being
> who was chosen and ordained by God to be a teacher of truth to man
> kind and a complete model and pattern for their actions.
>
>
> He was nothing more or less than a human being. But he was a man with
> a noble and exalted mission-and his unique mission was to unite
> humanity on the worship of ONE AND ONLY GOD and to teach them the way
> to honest and upright living in accordance with the laws and commands
> of God. He always described himself as A MESSENGER AND SERVANT OF
> GOD,
> and so indeed every single action and movement of his proclaimed him
> to be.
>
>
> A world which has not hesitated to raise to Divinity individuals
> whose
> very lives and missions have been lost in legend and who historically
> speaking did not accomplish half as much-or even one tenth-as was
> accomplished by Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon
> him should stop to take serious note of this remarkable man's claim
> to
> be God's messenger to mankind.
>
>
> Today after the lapse of some 1400 years the life and teachings of
> Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him,
> have survived without the slightest loss, alteration or
> interpolation.
> Today they offer the same undying hope for treating mankind's many
> ills which they did when Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of God
> Almighty be upon him, was alive. This is our honest claim and this is
> the inescapable conclusion forced upon us by a critical and unbiased
> study of history.
>
>
> The least YOU should do as a thinking, sensitive, concerned human
> being is to stop for one brief moment and ask yourself: Could it be
> that these statements, extraordinary and revolutionary as they sound,
> are really true? Supposing they really are true, and you did not know
> this man Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him or
> hear about his teachings? Or did not know him well and intimately
> enough to be able to benefit from his guidance and example? Isn't it
> time you responded to this tremendous challenge and made some effort
> to know him? It will not cost you anything but it may well prove to
> be
> the beginning of a completely new era in your life.
>
>
> Come, let us make a new discovery of the life of this wonderful man
> Muhammad, peace and blessings of God Almighty be upon him the like of
> whom never walked on this earth, and whose example and teachings can
> change YOUR LIFE and OUR WORLD for the better. May God shower His
> choicest blessings upon him!
>
>
> Written by S.H. Pasha
>
>
>

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Blog Archive

Wednesday, December 5, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest