Frugal Living: Oct 31, 2007

Wednesday, October 31, 2007

24 new messages in 13 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: With A Little Trick And The Mobile Web You Can Save £££ A Year On SMS
Text Messages.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/41a5b63bf402a00e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 2:55 am
From: allahgodalmighty@yahoo.co.uk

DIY the Mobile Web and our service 'Blitzplanet' to benefit from SMS
text messages at amazingly cheap prices to around 130 countries

and to TAKE AWAY ALL THE RISK...

...we'll give you a THREE YEAR GUARANTEE on all your SMS
text credits.

_____

Everybody talks about the Mobile Web, but only use it
to browse the net.

This is a waste of it's resources and capabilities.
Your phone is capable of using technologies
your mobile network provider cannot control.

SOME OF OUR CUSTOMERS ARE SAVING £70 EVERY MONTH

If you are already using the Mobile Web great -
fine tune it to it's full potential and be one of the few
who has discovered the smartest way of saving money using
text, picture, instant and email messaging

Our principle works along the same lines as Skype, but much
better because

- Blitzplanet works on every phone, not on only a few selected ones

- The recipient gets all the messages into their normal inbox

- You can trial it for FREE

- Blitzplanet is not a subscription service

- Your credits are GUARANTEED for 3 years.

- You will never have to change your Sim card again when travelling.

http://www.blitzplanet.com is a free-to-download SMS text
and picture service which is a program that sits on your
mobile phone like the game 'Snake' for example.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Dual-Flush toilet arrives.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4db3066814d10ca5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 3:09 am
From: Paul E Wog

I just installed one of these for a customer as part of a bathroom
renovation. Sterling, owned by Kohler, has two models:

The Rockton:
http://www.sterlingplumbing.com/onlinecatalog/detail.jsp?rescom=professional&item=4307103&prod_num=402024

And the more expensive Karsten:
http://www.sterlingplumbing.com/onlinecatalog/detail.jsp?rescom=professional&item=4387003&prod_num=402025

You will probably have to special order them; I got a Rockton in 3 days
through Lowes for about $235 plus tax. We got a standard round front,
but I believe elongated is also available.

They are kind of odd looking, with very small tanks and a large gap
between seat and tank. The flush mechanism is on the top of the tank,
with a large half-moon button for the full flush and a smaller one for
the .8 flush. Both flushes have quite a bit of power and it doesn't
appear the big flush would have any trouble getting things down. I'm
not 100% certain the low flush will get everything out, but if not it
really dilutes it. The "drop zone" is reasonably large, with a
reasonably large amount of water; not nearly as bad as some of the
original low flush toilets, but not quite as much of a pool as a
standard toilet.

Hope that helps.

A Veteran wrote:
>
> one flush for #1 and a grander effort to flush #2's
> but Home depot doesn't have them. where ?
>
> --
> when you believe the only tool you have is a hammer.
> All problems look like nails.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Illegal alien population increases by %88 percent in US since 2000
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5d08e789fad2c62e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 5:02 am
From: greg3347

On Oct 30, 8:36 pm, gringogirl <sumarli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Please, if you have never forwarded a single one of my messages in the
> past, forward this one. I've been following this issue closely for
> years and have never seen anything as shocking as this.
>
> This is not about race, it's about security and the financial well-
> being of the United States. We simply cannot take this exponential
> growth, no country can.
>
> Do you wonder which party has been more complicit in creating our
> illegal immigration problem? Guess what, it's both parties. Check
> out the findings from Federation for American Immigration Reform. If
> we don't insist that our sorry excuses for leaders stop this invasion,
> we are in real trouble and will lose our country as we know it.
>
> http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuece...
>
> How Many Illegal Aliens?
> Government and academic estimates indicate that as of 2006 there are
> 11 to 12 million illegal aliens living in the United States . The
> Center for Immigration Studies estimated the illegal alien population
> at 10 million as of November 2004. FAIR estimates that in 2007 the
> illegal alien population is above 13 million persons.
>
> It is difficult to have an exact figure because the illegal nature of
> their presence prevents any enumeration, but the U.S. Census Bureau
> estimated 8.7 million illegal aliens were here in 2000, and
> immigration officials estimate that the illegal alien population grows
> by as many as 500,000 every year.
> Estimated Distribution of the Illegal Alien Population
> The nationalities of the illegal alien population in the Census Bureau
> estimate and INS estimate for 2000 are as follow:
> Region/Country CB Est. INS Est.
> North and Central America 5,312,990
> Mexico 3,871,912 4,808,000
> Cuba 216,297
> Dominican Republic 17,942 91,000
> El Salvador 336,717 189,000
> Guatemala 238,977 144,000
> Canada 156,231 47,000
> Haiti 48,003 76,000
> Honduras 138,000
> Jamaica 37,666
> Trinidad & Tobago 44,178
> Otr N&C America 345,067
> South America 624,419
> Argentina 35,958
> Brazil 77,000
> Colombia 174,786 141,000
> Ecuador 105,197 108,000
> Peru 68,174 61,000
> Otr S America 240,304
> Europe 1,113,683
> France 36,477
> Germany 113,327
> Greece 15,507
> Ireland -2,233
> Italy 62,456
> Netherlands 17,885
> Poland 92,684
> Portugal 33,874
> Spain 23,816
> U.S.S.R. (incl. Est., Lat., Lith.) 344,877
> United Kingdom 123,246
> Yugoslavia 110,280
> Other Europe 141,487
> Asia 1,363,419
> Middle East 114,818
> Iran 30,823
> Israel 24,372
> Otr M E (incl. Afghanistan ) 59,623
> South & East Asia 1,248,601
> China (incl. Taiwan ) 226,886 115,000
> India 200,306 70,000
> Japan 118,357
> Korea 182,621 55,000
> Philippines 155,239 85,000
> Otr S& E Asia 365,192
> Africa 243,342
> Oceania 47,568
> Australia 16,777
> Other Oceania 30,791
> All Other 795,000
> Total 8,705,421 7,000,000
>
> The estimate by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS)
> issued in February 2003 put the number of resident illegal aliens at
> seven million (as of Jan. 2000), 4.8 million of whom were Mexican and
> 2.2 million of whom resided in California . That estimate included the
> annual rate of increase in the illegal alien population -- 350,000
> with 73,200 (31.6%) of that annual increase taking up residence in
> California . So, by 2003, the illegal alien population would have
> increased to over eight million.
>
> The method by which the INS arrived at this estimate was based on data
> collected as a result of the 1986 amnesty and then relied on Census
> data and INS legal immigration data and airline arrival/departure
> records for updating the estimate. The estimate included only aliens
> who continued to reside illegally in the United States for more than
> one year. Left out of the estimate were aliens doing seasonal work
> illegally in the United States and all aliens during the first year of
> overstaying the terms of an authorized nonimmigrant entry, as well
> groups of illegal alien residents who were issued work permits under
> programs such as Temporary Protected Status (TPS).
>
> The 2000 Census, like all previous censuses, made no attempt to
> determine the immigration status of foreign-born residents.
> Nevertheless, the results of the Census did contribute to a re-
> evaluation of the size of the illegal alien population. Most analysts
> agree that the illegal alien population now numbers more than 10-11
> million persons as is shown below.
> The first estimates that challenged the INS estimates appeared from
> labor force researchers at Northeastern University .[1] They estimated
> in 2001 that the illegal alien population could be as large as 11
> million. They later revised that estimate upward to 12 million.
>
> The director of the Census Bureau, when asked about the much higher
> estimate of the illegal alien population agreed that the 2000 Census
> data indicated that the illegal alien estimate of the INS was too low,
> but did not offer a different estimate.
>
> In the August 2001 issue of Demography, immigration researchers
> estimated the current total population of illegal aliens at 7.1
> million, of whom 3.9 million were Mexicans. Also in August, a
> demographer at the Urban Institute issued an estimate that the illegal
> alien population was 8.5 million, with 4.5 million of them being
> Mexican.
>
> The Census Bureau issued an estimate in January 2002 that the illegal
> alien population in 2000 was 8,705,421. That estimate was based on the
> discrepancy between the number of foreign-born residents and the
> number of legally admitted immigrants. Included in that number may be
> aliens residing in the United States under provisions that preclude
> their deportation, but who are not legal permanent residents, such as
> beneficiaries of Section 245(i) petitions, or asylees who have not
> been in the country long enough for adjustment of status, or Central
> American beneficiaries of the NACARA legislation. The Census Bureau
> estimate is preliminary and subject to modification after review of
> the methodology by interested parties.
>
> An independent estimate by analysts of the bear-Stearns investment
> firm said the illegal alien population "...may be as high as 20 million
> people."[2] This estimate dismisses lower official estimates as being
> flawed by the non-response of illegal alien to census takers. However,
> this conclusion misses the fact that the official estimates are
> instead based on a comparison between the growth in the foreign-born
> population and new legal immigrant arrivals. This allows the trend in
> the illegal alien population to be observed despite non-response in
> the Census.
>
> TIME Magazine in a feature article in 2004 published an estimate of
> three million illegal aliens arriving each year.[3] However, that
> estimate was based on a mistaken assumption that a million illegal
> aliens are being apprehended each year and three times as many avoid
> apprehension. The actual number of persons apprehended is considerably
> lower than one million because the same individual often may be
> apprehended multiple times during the year.
>
> The following table shows estimates of the illegal alien population by
> state by the INS, DHS[4] and the Pew Hispanic Center[5] as well as the
> current estimates by FAIR. (Numbers are thousands).
>
> State INS'92 INS'96 INS'00 DHS'05 DHS'06 Pew'02-4 Pew'05 FAIR'07
> Ala. 3 4 24 28 40 55
> Aka. 2 4 5 5 5 10
> Ariz. 95 115 283 480 500 500 425 475
> Ark. 4 5 27 28 40 50
> Cal. 1,600 2,000 2,209 2,770 2,830 2,400 2,625 3,470
> Col. 35 45 144 225 250 270
> Ct. 22 29 39 70 85 115
> Del. 2 3 7 28 23 20
> D.C. 21 30 10 28 25 35
> Fla. 270 350 337 850 980 850 863 810
> Ga. 26 32 228 470 490 225 400 440
> Hi. 6 9 2 28 28 30
> Idaho 12 16 19 28 35 35
> Ill. 220 290 432 520 550 400 400 775
> Ind. 11 14 45 70 70 110
> Iowa 5 6 24 70 70 55
> Kans. 15 20 47 70 55 90
> Ky. 5 6 15 28 45 40
> La. 18 22 5 28 35 25
> Maine 2 3 3 5 5 5
> Md. 33 44 56 225 250 150
> Mass. 65 85 87 225 200 250
> Mich. 28 37 70 125 125 200
> Minn. 6 7 60 70 88 125
> Miss. 3 4 8 28 40 20
> Mo. 12 16 22 70 50 65
> Mont. 1 1 2 5 5 5
> Neb. 6 8 24 28 45 45
> Nev. 19 24 101 240 125 175 170
> N.H. 2 2 2 5 20 15
> N.J. 105 135 221 380 430 350 388 490
> N.M. 29 37 39 70 63 70
> N.Y. 410 540 489 560 540 650 600 1,110
> N.C. 20 22 206 360 370 300 350 385
> N.D. 1 1 2 5 5 5
> Ohio 18 23 40 125 111 115
> Okla. 17 21 46 70 63 85
> Ore. 27 33 90 125 150 170
> Pa. 27 37 49 125 150 140
> R.I. 9 12 16 28 30 35
> S.C. 4 5 36 28 55 75
> S.D. 1 1 2 5 5 5
> Tenn. 10 13 46 125 125 100
> Texas 530 700 1,041 1,360 1,640 1,400 1,500 1,740
> Utah 13 15 65 70 83 125
> Vt. 2 3 2 5 5 5
> Va. 42 55 103 225 275 205
> Wash. 42 52 136 280 225 225 255
> W.V. 2 2 2 5 5 5
> Wis. 6 8 41 125 93 90
> Wyo. 1 2 2 5 5 5
> Total 3,865 4,947 7,013 10,760 11,550 10,080 10,803 13,175
>
> Amnesty proposals for granting legal residence to these illegal aliens
> take various forms, and the number of proposed beneficiaries vary
> depending on the proposal. For example, in the 1986 general amnesty,
> illegal aliens other than those in agricultural work were eligible
> only if they had been living in the United States for four years
> (since 1982). Thus, the nearly three million beneficiaries did not
> include illegal aliens who had arrived during the previous four years
> (unless they presented fraudulent evidence of having arrived earlier,
> as many of them did).
>
> Although the number of illegal aliens in the country can only be
> estimated, and it is unclear what form currently proposed amnesty
> provisions might take, it is safe from the above analysis to conclude
> that any new amnesty would likely involve as many as four times as
> many illegal aliens as benefited from the 1986 amnesty.
>
> Updated 10/2007
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> [1] "Feds Undercount Illegal Aliens," NewsMax.com, (March 16, 2001).
> [2] Robert Justich and Betty Ng, "The Underground Labor Force is
> Rising to the Surface," Bear Sterns, January 3, 2005.
> [3] Barlett, Donald and James Steele, "Who Left the Door Open?," TIME
> Magazine, September 12, 2004.
> [4] The most recent estimates by DHS only show the estimate for the 10
> states with the largest illegal alien population
> [5] Pew Hispanic Center estimates of the illegal immigrant population
> are stated as a range, e.g., California 2.5 million to 2.75 million.
> The chart shows the mid-point of the estimate, e.g. California 2.625
> million
> _________________________________

Failure to secure our border and to remove illegal aliens has put the
future of the continent in jeopardy.
Following Bush's twisted approval of illegal's Senator Clinton
promises more of the same i.e., her
failure to even discuss the problem during last night's debate.

greg

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 6:29 am
From: qwest602000

On Oct 31, 5:02 am, greg3347 <theodor...@lycos.com> wrote:
> On Oct 30, 8:36 pm, gringogirl <sumarli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Please, if you have never forwarded a single one of my messages in the
> > past, forward this one. I've been following this issue closely for
> > years and have never seen anything as shocking as this.
>
> > This is not about race, it's about security and the financial well-
> > being of the United States. We simply cannot take this exponential
> > growth, no country can.
>
> > Do you wonder which party has been more complicit in creating our
> > illegal immigration problem? Guess what, it's both parties. Check
> > out the findings from Federation for American Immigration Reform. If
> > we don't insist that our sorry excuses for leaders stop this invasion,
> > we are in real trouble and will lose our country as we know it.
>
> >http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuece...
>
> > How Many Illegal Aliens?
> > Government and academic estimates indicate that as of 2006 there are
> > 11 to 12 million illegal aliens living in the United States . The
> > Center for Immigration Studies estimated the illegal alien population
> > at 10 million as of November 2004. FAIR estimates that in 2007 the
> > illegal alien population is above 13 million persons.
>
> > It is difficult to have an exact figure because the illegal nature of
> > their presence prevents any enumeration, but the U.S. Census Bureau
> > estimated 8.7 million illegal aliens were here in 2000, and
> > immigration officials estimate that the illegal alien population grows
> > by as many as 500,000 every year.
> > Estimated Distribution of the Illegal Alien Population
> > The nationalities of the illegal alien population in the Census Bureau
> > estimate and INS estimate for 2000 are as follow:
> > Region/Country CB Est. INS Est.
> > North and Central America 5,312,990
> > Mexico 3,871,912 4,808,000
> > Cuba 216,297
> > Dominican Republic 17,942 91,000
> > El Salvador 336,717 189,000
> > Guatemala 238,977 144,000
> > Canada 156,231 47,000
> > Haiti 48,003 76,000
> > Honduras 138,000
> > Jamaica 37,666
> > Trinidad & Tobago 44,178
> > Otr N&C America 345,067
> > South America 624,419
> > Argentina 35,958
> > Brazil 77,000
> > Colombia 174,786 141,000
> > Ecuador 105,197 108,000
> > Peru 68,174 61,000
> > Otr S America 240,304
> > Europe 1,113,683
> > France 36,477
> > Germany 113,327
> > Greece 15,507
> > Ireland -2,233
> > Italy 62,456
> > Netherlands 17,885
> > Poland 92,684
> > Portugal 33,874
> > Spain 23,816
> > U.S.S.R. (incl. Est., Lat., Lith.) 344,877
> > United Kingdom 123,246
> > Yugoslavia 110,280
> > Other Europe 141,487
> > Asia 1,363,419
> > Middle East 114,818
> > Iran 30,823
> > Israel 24,372
> > Otr M E (incl. Afghanistan ) 59,623
> > South & East Asia 1,248,601
> > China (incl. Taiwan ) 226,886 115,000
> > India 200,306 70,000
> > Japan 118,357
> > Korea 182,621 55,000
> > Philippines 155,239 85,000
> > Otr S& E Asia 365,192
> > Africa 243,342
> > Oceania 47,568
> > Australia 16,777
> > Other Oceania 30,791
> > All Other 795,000
> > Total 8,705,421 7,000,000
>
> > The estimate by the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS)
> > issued in February 2003 put the number of resident illegal aliens at
> > seven million (as of Jan. 2000), 4.8 million of whom were Mexican and
> > 2.2 million of whom resided in California . That estimate included the
> > annual rate of increase in the illegal alien population -- 350,000
> > with 73,200 (31.6%) of that annual increase taking up residence in
> > California . So, by 2003, the illegal alien population would have
> > increased to over eight million.
>
> > The method by which the INS arrived at this estimate was based on data
> > collected as a result of the 1986 amnesty and then relied on Census
> > data and INS legal immigration data and airline arrival/departure
> > records for updating the estimate. The estimate included only aliens
> > who continued to reside illegally in the United States for more than
> > one year. Left out of the estimate were aliens doing seasonal work
> > illegally in the United States and all aliens during the first year of
> > overstaying the terms of an authorized nonimmigrant entry, as well
> > groups of illegal alien residents who were issued work permits under
> > programs such as Temporary Protected Status (TPS).
>
> > The 2000 Census, like all previous censuses, made no attempt to
> > determine the immigration status of foreign-born residents.
> > Nevertheless, the results of the Census did contribute to a re-
> > evaluation of the size of the illegal alien population. Most analysts
> > agree that the illegal alien population now numbers more than 10-11
> > million persons as is shown below.
> > The first estimates that challenged the INS estimates appeared from
> > labor force researchers at Northeastern University .[1] They estimated
> > in 2001 that the illegal alien population could be as large as 11
> > million. They later revised that estimate upward to 12 million.
>
> > The director of the Census Bureau, when asked about the much higher
> > estimate of the illegal alien population agreed that the 2000 Census
> > data indicated that the illegal alien estimate of the INS was too low,
> > but did not offer a different estimate.
>
> > In the August 2001 issue of Demography, immigration researchers
> > estimated the current total population of illegal aliens at 7.1
> > million, of whom 3.9 million were Mexicans. Also in August, a
> > demographer at the Urban Institute issued an estimate that the illegal
> > alien population was 8.5 million, with 4.5 million of them being
> > Mexican.
>
> > The Census Bureau issued an estimate in January 2002 that the illegal
> > alien population in 2000 was 8,705,421. That estimate was based on the
> > discrepancy between the number of foreign-born residents and the
> > number of legally admitted immigrants. Included in that number may be
> > aliens residing in the United States under provisions that preclude
> > their deportation, but who are not legal permanent residents, such as
> > beneficiaries of Section 245(i) petitions, or asylees who have not
> > been in the country long enough for adjustment of status, or Central
> > American beneficiaries of the NACARA legislation. The Census Bureau
> > estimate is preliminary and subject to modification after review of
> > the methodology by interested parties.
>
> > An independent estimate by analysts of the bear-Stearns investment
> > firm said the illegal alien population "...may be as high as 20 million
> > people."[2] This estimate dismisses lower official estimates as being
> > flawed by the non-response of illegal alien to census takers. However,
> > this conclusion misses the fact that the official estimates are
> > instead based on a comparison between the growth in the foreign-born
> > population and new legal immigrant arrivals. This allows the trend in
> > the illegal alien population to be observed despite non-response in
> > the Census.
>
> > TIME Magazine in a feature article in 2004 published an estimate of
> > three million illegal aliens arriving each year.[3] However, that
> > estimate was based on a mistaken assumption that a million illegal
> > aliens are being apprehended each year and three times as many avoid
> > apprehension. The actual number of persons apprehended is considerably
> > lower than one million because the same individual often may be
> > apprehended multiple times during the year.
>
> > The following table shows estimates of the illegal alien population by
> > state by the INS, DHS[4] and the Pew Hispanic Center[5] as well as the
> > current estimates by FAIR. (Numbers are thousands).
>
> > State INS'92 INS'96 INS'00 DHS'05 DHS'06 Pew'02-4 Pew'05 FAIR'07
> > Ala. 3 4 24 28 40 55
> > Aka. 2 4 5 5 5 10
> > Ariz. 95 115 283 480 500 500 425 475
> > Ark. 4 5 27 28 40 50
> > Cal. 1,600 2,000 2,209 2,770 2,830 2,400 2,625 3,470
> > Col. 35 45 144 225 250 270
> > Ct. 22 29 39 70 85 115
> > Del. 2 3 7 28 23 20
> > D.C. 21 30 10 28 25 35
> > Fla. 270 350 337 850 980 850 863 810
> > Ga. 26 32 228 470 490 225 400 440
> > Hi. 6 9 2 28 28 30
> > Idaho 12 16 19 28 35 35
> > Ill. 220 290 432 520 550 400 400 775
> > Ind. 11 14 45 70 70 110
> > Iowa 5 6 24 70 70 55
> > Kans. 15 20 47 70 55 90
> > Ky. 5 6 15 28 45 40
> > La. 18 22 5 28 35 25
> > Maine 2 3 3 5 5 5
> > Md. 33 44 56 225 250 150
> > Mass. 65 85 87 225 200 250
> > Mich. 28 37 70 125 125 200
> > Minn. 6 7 60 70 88 125
> > Miss. 3 4 8 28 40 20
> > Mo. 12 16 22 70 50 65
> > Mont. 1 1 2 5 5 5
> > Neb. 6 8 24 28 45 45
> > Nev. 19 24 101 240 125 175 170
> > N.H. 2 2 2 5 20 15
> > N.J. 105 135 221 380 430 350 388 490
> > N.M. 29 37 39 70 63 70
> > N.Y. 410 540 489 560 540 650 600 1,110
> > N.C. 20 22 206 360 370 300 350 385
> > N.D. 1 1 2 5 5 5
> > Ohio 18 23 40 125 111 115
> > Okla. 17 21 46 70 63 85
> > Ore. 27 33 90 125 150 170
> > Pa. 27 37 49 125 150 140
> > R.I. 9 12 16 28 30 35
> > S.C. 4 5 36 28 55 75
> > S.D. 1 1 2 5 5 5
> > Tenn. 10 13 46 125 125 100
> > Texas 530 700 1,041 1,360 1,640 1,400 1,500 1,740
> > Utah 13 15 65 70 83 125
> > Vt. 2 3 2 5 5 5
> > Va. 42 55 103 225 275 205
> > Wash. 42 52 136 280 225 225 255
> > W.V. 2 2 2 5 5 5
> > Wis. 6 8 41 125 93 90
> > Wyo. 1 2 2 5 5 5
> > Total 3,865 4,947 7,013 10,760 11,550 10,080 10,803 13,175
>
> > Amnesty proposals for granting legal residence to these illegal aliens
> > take various forms, and the number of proposed beneficiaries vary
> > depending on the proposal. For example, in the 1986 general amnesty,
> > illegal aliens other than those in agricultural work were eligible
> > only if they had been living in the United States for four years
> > (since 1982). Thus, the nearly three million beneficiaries did not
> > include illegal aliens who had arrived during the previous four years
> > (unless they presented fraudulent evidence of having arrived earlier,
> > as many of them did).
>
> > Although the number of illegal aliens in the country can only be
> > estimated, and it is unclear what form currently proposed amnesty
> > provisions might take, it is safe from the above analysis to conclude
> > that any new amnesty would likely involve as many as four times as
> > many illegal aliens as benefited from the 1986 amnesty.
>
> > Updated 10/2007
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > [1] "Feds Undercount Illegal Aliens," NewsMax.com, (March 16, 2001).
> > [2] Robert Justich and Betty Ng, "The Underground Labor Force is
> > Rising to the Surface," Bear Sterns, January 3, 2005.
> > [3] Barlett, Donald and James Steele, "Who Left the Door Open?," TIME
> > Magazine, September 12, 2004.
> > [4] The most recent estimates by DHS only show the estimate for the 10
> > states with the largest illegal alien population
> > [5] Pew Hispanic Center estimates of the illegal immigrant population
> > are stated as a range, e.g., California 2.5 million to 2.75 million.
> > The chart shows the mid-point of the estimate, e.g. California 2.625
> > million
> > _________________________________
>
> Failure to secure our border and to remove illegal aliens has put the
> future of the continent in jeopardy.
> Following Bush's twisted approval of illegal's Senator Clinton
> promises more of the same i.e., her
> failure to even discuss the problem during last night's debate.
>
> greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

those bastards

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 6:48 am
From: "Joseph Meehan"

Get real, it is about hate, and it is coming from someone who's
ancestors likely came to America under conditions that would have made them
illegal today. They don't have a clue, but they do have a lot of irrational
hate and fear.

"greg3347" <theodoric3@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1193832145.399546.56880@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 30, 8:36 pm, gringogirl <sumarli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> This is not about race, it's about security and the financial well-
>> being of the United States.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 8:47 am
From: Allen

Joseph Meehan wrote:
> Get real, it is about hate, and it is coming from someone who's
> ancestors likely came to America under conditions that would have made
> them illegal today. They don't have a clue, but they do have a lot of
> irrational hate and fear.
>
> "greg3347" <theodoric3@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:1193832145.399546.56880@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 30, 8:36 pm, gringogirl <sumarli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> This is not about race, it's about security and the financial well-
>>> being of the United States.
Thank you, John. My ancestors started arriving here in the 1630s, and
they were certainly illegal immigrants as far as the people who had been
here for more centuries than anyone can be sure of of. My ancestors,
though, were not quite as considerate as the recent immigrants; they
just killed the ones who were here first. I might add that the
immigrants that so many are concerned about have racial ties to those my
ancestors killed. I would be in favor of decent immigration laws that
would allow anyone without a criminal record to come here, work, and go
through the citizenship process, but PLEASE! no walls, no fences, no
prosecution of humanitarians to provide food, water and medical care to
those in trouble in the desert Southwest. I would much rather import
people than import so many necessities for life from other countries.
Our great seal says "E Pluribus Unum", not "Mine, All Mine". I'm sure
this post will put me in dozens of killfiles; no need to tell me, as I
expect it.

Allen

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 8:58 am
From: John McWilliams

Allen wrote:
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>> Get real, it is about hate, and it is coming from someone who's
>> ancestors likely came to America under conditions that would have made
>> them illegal today. They don't have a clue, but they do have a lot of
>> irrational hate and fear.
>>
>> "greg3347" <theodoric3@lycos.com> wrote in message
>> news:1193832145.399546.56880@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Oct 30, 8:36 pm, gringogirl <sumarli...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> This is not about race, it's about security and the financial well-
>>>> being of the United States.
> Thank you, John. My ancestors started arriving here in the 1630s, and
> they were certainly illegal immigrants as far as the people who had been
> here for more centuries than anyone can be sure of of. My ancestors,
> though, were not quite as considerate as the recent immigrants; they
> just killed the ones who were here first. I might add that the
> immigrants that so many are concerned about have racial ties to those my
> ancestors killed. I would be in favor of decent immigration laws that
> would allow anyone without a criminal record to come here, work, and go
> through the citizenship process, but PLEASE! no walls, no fences, no
> prosecution of humanitarians to provide food, water and medical care to
> those in trouble in the desert Southwest. I would much rather import
> people than import so many necessities for life from other countries.
> Our great seal says "E Pluribus Unum", not "Mine, All Mine". I'm sure
> this post will put me in dozens of killfiles; no need to tell me, as I
> expect it.
>
> Allen

==============================================================================
TOPIC: This group is dying from spam.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e13559a60a40f78d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 6:22 am
From: singlemalt@invalid.net>

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Loons can be killfiled (dear lord when
>will thunderbird get REAL filters for newsgroups, making it possible to
>eliminate any postings originating from googlegroups?)
...not likely to be soon. You need:
http://www.nfilter.org/
marginally more information here:
http://fitnwell.net/nfilter.htm

AFAIK, there exists no "official" version but v1.2.0 is the last
revision from its "real" author. At any rate, there are some modified
files around that may/maynot work. Last time I looked, the
self-installer being distributed from the nfilter site was defective but
you don't need it, anyway; just download a .zip archive.

I have used it for many years to eliminated crossposting and now
googlegroups AWA "most" gmail users. I can't imagine your needing help
or inspiration creating a filter file but, if you do, I have one that
works and believe hchickpea does, also.
--
HTH,
Derald

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 10:32 am
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If anyone wants to seriously consider doing it though visit the
>>>>> group: alt.config
>>>>>
>>>>> to begin the proposal process.
>>>>
>>>> BTDT and the group was created. It's alive and the moderators pay
>>>> attention, but it doesn't get used much.
>>>>
>>>> Spam isn't the problem with usenet, it's the loons. Check out what
>>>> happened to rec.bicycles.off-road.
>>>>
>>>> Spam is easy to recognize and skip. Loons can be killfiled (dear
>>>> lord when will thunderbird get REAL filters for newsgroups, making
>>>> it possible to eliminate any postings originating from googlegroups?).
>
>>> Trouble is that there is plenty of non spam from groups.google now.
>
>> Perhaps.
>
> No perhaps about it, presumably because its easier to
> setup than a conventional news client and news server.

People who are unwilling or too dumb to do something a better way aren't
likely to say anything I want to hear.

>> Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas.
>
> A rolling stone gathers no moss.
>
>> I'm willing to make the sacrifice.
>
> It makes more sense to just ignore the spam. It isnt hard to work out what is spam.

Of course not, but if you've skipped your usenet obligations for a few
weeks, the sheer quantity is annoying.

--
Cheers,
Bev
66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
Vampireware; n, a project capable of sucking the lifeblood
out of anyone unfortunate enough to be assigned to it,
which never actually sees the light of day, but nonetheless
refuses to die. -- Trygve Lode

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shredded personal documents
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6a5b35f2ff72ca35?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 5:27 am
From: Just A User

Logan Shaw wrote:
> Just A User wrote:
>> Logan Shaw wrote:
>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>> I shred important documents that have personal info on them rather
>>>> than just throwing them in the recycle or regular trash but what to
>>>> do with all those shreds? I save them for when I go camping for
>>>> starting a campfire, but only need a little for this purpose. So if
>>>> there any frugal / environmentally friendly for getting rid of this
>>>> waste I would appreciate any suggestions.
>
>>> Collect a bunch of paper together. Soak it in water until it becomes a
>>> pulp. Then bleach it. Finally, press it out into a very thin sheet,
>>> let it dry completely, and cut it into rectangles of convenient sizes,
>>> say 8.5"x11". Then get a pen, and write down all the reasons you could
>>> possibly have chosen to waste your precious few moments here on the
>>> planet
>>> obsessing over what to do with recyclable paper rather than just putting
>>> it in the recycle bin. Then go for a hike, or go on a cruise, or write
>>> a novel, or volunteer for some local group that actually does some good
>>> in the world, or something. :-)
>
>> A novel! Great idea, I cam write about all the characters that post to
>> usenet groups, a.k.a. all the people in my killfile.
>
> I apologize for that comment. I meant for it to be a humorous and
> slightly snarky, but reading over it again, I think if I were reading
> it, it would look like a personal slam.
>
> I was really just trying to say that putting the stuff in the recycle bin
> may, in fact, be the best thing you can do with it, and if it is, it
> doesn't do much good to spend time on it. If you want to make the world a
> better place, there are probably better ways to spend that time doing it.
>
> By the way, you can actually soak the paper in water and make it into a
> sort of pulp, then compress it into a big solid mass, let it dry for
> several weeks, and then you have a sort of faux log for the fireplace.
> But according to the results of some googling, the logs don't burn as
> well as good firewood. Which makes sense, actually: not all wood is
> good for burning. Where I live, we have a bunch of cedar all over the
> place just growing wild, but cedar doesn't burn well. It pops and
> sputters. The point being that just because something *can* burn
> doesn't mean it's a good fuel. In fact, some woods leave unwanted or
> dangerous deposits in the chimney. So I personally wouldn't burn logs
> made out of shredded paper even if I could, at least not without learning
> more about it.
>
> Another possible use is packing materials. But I personally am not
> too comfortable with that: if it was sensitive enough to shred, it's
> sensitive enough not to send to someone you know or someone you do
> business with.
>
> So unless someone comes up with something clever that I haven't heard
> before, my best idea is throw it in the recycle bin.
>
> - Logan

I thought you were trying to be like all, or r.s.. Not trying to offend
you but thats the way your reply looked to me. But you have not made my
killfile. Your overall posts are relevant and respectful. I tried the
paper log thing, it doesn't burn well at all. So I guess it comes down
to giving it away to someone, composting it( my choice ) or tossing it
in the trash.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 6:37 am
From: ppnerkDELETETHIS@yahoo.com (Phred)

In article <AJydnTxU84Ej6bXanZ2dnUVZ_ualnZ2d@giganews.com>, Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>Logan Shaw wrote:
>> Just A User wrote:
>>> Logan Shaw wrote:
>>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>>> I shred important documents that have personal info on them rather
>>>>> than just throwing them in the recycle or regular trash but what to
>>>>> do with all those shreds? I save them for when I go camping for
>>>>> starting a campfire, but only need a little for this purpose. So if
>>>>> there any frugal / environmentally friendly for getting rid of this
>>>>> waste I would appreciate any suggestions.
[snip]
>> Another possible use is packing materials. But I personally am not
>> too comfortable with that: if it was sensitive enough to shred, it's
>> sensitive enough not to send to someone you know or someone you do
>> business with.
>>
>> So unless someone comes up with something clever that I haven't heard
>> before, my best idea is throw it in the recycle bin.
>
>I thought you were trying to be like all, or r.s.. Not trying to offend
>you but thats the way your reply looked to me. But you have not made my
>killfile. Your overall posts are relevant and respectful. I tried the
>paper log thing, it doesn't burn well at all. So I guess it comes down
>to giving it away to someone, composting it( my choice ) or tossing it
>in the trash.

Why not toss it into the recycle bin? It's still just waste paper. ;-)

But I think composting is good too. It would be here anyway -- the
soil here can use all the organic matter it can get! Mind you, it
would need a fair bit of added nitrogen to speed the process, so
perhaps you could pee on it as part of the process. (Saves water for
flushing the loo too. :)

Cheers, Phred.

--
ppnerkDELETE@THISyahoo.com.INVALID

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 7:23 am
From: Just A User

Phred wrote:
> In article <AJydnTxU84Ej6bXanZ2dnUVZ_ualnZ2d@giganews.com>, Just A User <ken@up-yours-spammer.net> wrote:
>> Logan Shaw wrote:
>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>> Logan Shaw wrote:
>>>>> Just A User wrote:
>>>>>> I shred important documents that have personal info on them rather
>>>>>> than just throwing them in the recycle or regular trash but what to
>>>>>> do with all those shreds? I save them for when I go camping for
>>>>>> starting a campfire, but only need a little for this purpose. So if
>>>>>> there any frugal / environmentally friendly for getting rid of this
>>>>>> waste I would appreciate any suggestions.
> [snip]
>>> Another possible use is packing materials. But I personally am not
>>> too comfortable with that: if it was sensitive enough to shred, it's
>>> sensitive enough not to send to someone you know or someone you do
>>> business with.
>>>
>>> So unless someone comes up with something clever that I haven't heard
>>> before, my best idea is throw it in the recycle bin.
>> I thought you were trying to be like all, or r.s.. Not trying to offend
>> you but thats the way your reply looked to me. But you have not made my
>> killfile. Your overall posts are relevant and respectful. I tried the
>> paper log thing, it doesn't burn well at all. So I guess it comes down
>> to giving it away to someone, composting it( my choice ) or tossing it
>> in the trash.
>
> Why not toss it into the recycle bin? It's still just waste paper. ;-)
>
> But I think composting is good too. It would be here anyway -- the
> soil here can use all the organic matter it can get! Mind you, it
> would need a fair bit of added nitrogen to speed the process, so
> perhaps you could pee on it as part of the process. (Saves water for
> flushing the loo too. :)
>
> Cheers, Phred.
>

Well in it's shredded form, it's not of use to the recycling process,
from what I have read, and it tends to blow all over the neighborhood,
the soil here could use the organic matter as well. Sure pee adds
something to the pile, and helps keep the pile moist.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 9:16 am
From: val189

On Oct 30, 11:23 pm, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Another possible use is packing materials. But I personally am not
> too comfortable with that: if it was sensitive enough to shred, it's
> sensitive enough not to send to someone you know or someone you do
> business with.

I wouldn't think a guy boxing something to ship is going to spend too
much time looking for someone's soc. sec. number.

> So unless someone comes up with something clever that I haven't heard
> before, my best idea is throw it in the recycle bin.

This assumes that paper recycling is available in your area. Would
that it were....I wait til I'm going to the next county and tote a
load of catalogs and the like there where they have paper recycling
bins. My county trash guru is trying to get a paper recycler to take
it and he's not even expecting a cut, but he can't seem to negotiate a
deal a yet.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 12:24 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

"val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1193847406.142186.155940@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 30, 11:23 pm, Logan Shaw <lshaw-use...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Another possible use is packing materials. But I personally am not
>> too comfortable with that: if it was sensitive enough to shred, it's
>> sensitive enough not to send to someone you know or someone you do
>> business with.
>
> I wouldn't think a guy boxing something to ship is going to spend too
> much time looking for someone's soc. sec. number.

Fine, so do your banking at an institution that uses shredded documents as
packing material. I won't.

Home shredders do sometimes let portions of documents slip by the blades (at
least mine does.) So shredding is just one layer of security - I still throw
the bag as far back in the dumpster as I can and wait until garbage pickup
day to do it to minimize the window of opportunity for dumpster divers.
Those trees and spotted owls aren't volunteering to help me clean up an
identity theft mess so environmental concerns take second place to security.
If it reduces my chances of having my identity stolen, I'll happily burn
down the trees and shoot the spotted owls myself.

If you really want to address the environmental issue with shredded
sensitive documents, you're better off eliminating as many such documents
that need shredding in the first place. Opt out of paper statements for
those businesses you do online payment with. Opt out of junk mail and
unsolicitied credit card solits. Etc. No criminal can unshred a document
that was never printed to begin with.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: We are on-line shopping partners which you most may trust
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/48f77c85b638c3d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 6:27 am
From: jim

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great Group You have going here!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f6ae253ca834de17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 6:33 am
From: Swydenemwgfaj8m@gmail.com

I came across this group while searching for information on wedding
planning and enjoyed the great information you have here.I also found
a website that has quite a bit of wedding informtation that I think
would be of good use to the people in this group.Check it out at
http://prjectx.info/wedding/. Enjoy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wireless Keyboards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1cdce429024e30ef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 6:45 am
From: me@privacy.net

>> Does anyone know if a keyboard with built in
>> trackball might be better...a wireless unit that is?
>
>I dont like the style myself.

You prefer to have the keyboard and mouse as separate
units, yes?

Wireless keyboard and mouse that is

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Akira Lane free video clips movie pics gallery
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2dee11c9633c6f75?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Clothing Shirt Cap Nike Jordans puma bape gucci prada Sport shoes Bape
Dunk jean
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/84fd1b68aec80f99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 10:43 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.fashion-sky.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile 3).Nokia Mobile
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
31

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

7.because the space of the website is limited,we can also supply many
other products which be not showed out in our site. if you have the
photos of the products you need , we are pleasure to supply for your
orders.
And our company can supply for our customers ,as follow:
1. top quality.all our products have top quality.
2. most rational price. we offer the most competitive price to you to
open your market. So today most of our products have sold well in the
America, Europe, Middle East, Southeast Asia etc..
3. safe and fast shipment. As different country you are in, we will
deliver the products to you by different ways and pledge to arrive to
your address 100%.and we will send the products to you within 24h
after we get your payment.
4.many products in stock. We have many products in stock and kinds of
size you need , also include kid's.
5.our credit. If the products can be not delivered to your address as
our reason, we will refund the money you paid.
Hope sincerely to have glad and long term business relationship with
you.
If you are interested in our products and have any problem, welcome
to
contact us.
Please trust us , we will be your best choice !!!
Website : http://www.fashion-sky.com
MSN and E-mail: fashion-sky@hotmail.com
Yahoo ID:mallinchina@yahoo.com.cn
Michael
Fashion Footwear Industrial Co.,Ltd.(Fujian,CHINA)

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 10:47 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 10:50 am
From: fashion-sky@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gold Supplier offer the best service and lowest price ,accept PAYPAL
online payment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9f98ac3aa0659f36?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 11:00 am
From: alibabaunion01@gmail.com

www.alibabaunion.com

Alibabaunion Co.,LTD greets and desires of success and wishes you
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We greated in 2003 year ,and now we become the one of best supplier
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http://www.alibabaunion.com

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Hoody Jacket Jeans Coat

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: latest epidemic SATURN problems
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9524317f1f1c7ef1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Oct 31 2007 11:34 am
From: "misterfact@yahoo.com"

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.saturn?hl=en

rec.autos.makers.saturn@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Buy wants your holiday business - maybe
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/058409ee0a67f6ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 29 2004 11:23 am
From: Cory Bhreckan

> "Michael M. Bates" wrote:
>
> Not many children have visions of sugar-plums dancing in their heads
> as Christmas approaches this year. They?re more likely to be thinking
> along the lines of MP3 players, video games, cell phones and other
> high-tech electronics.
>
> With more than $24 billion in sales last year, Best Buy is a leader in
> marketing consumer electronics. Now the company has a new strategy:
> Getting rid of undesirable customers.
>
> The company?s chief executive officer described to the Wall Street
> Journal the consumers he can do without. These include folks who buy
> items and apply for any available rebates, then return the items to
> the store, and go back a final time to get the same stuff at a
> returned-merchandise discount.
>
> Also not needed are the patrons who buy quantities of the store?s loss
> leaders - merchandise sold at big discounts to bring people into the
> store - and then sell the items for a profit on eBay.

Wow, buying something at a low price and selling it at a profit, what an
original business plan. Someone should patent it. I'm sure that Best Buy
never buys anything at a low price and sells it for a profit.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

22 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheap wholesale jordans air force one 25 anniversary at www.orientnike.
com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/39be50fb8665e8a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 2:57 pm
From: orientnike

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: What thread count sheets do you buy?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ad4e4e93bbccdd1c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 3:29 pm
From: pc

Melissa wrote:
> <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:gumci3th02s9gobemrolbu3pk7p4i6edkg@4ax.com...
>> Looking to by some new flat sheets.
>>
>> Curious what thread count everyone considers a good
>> one? I'm looking for a luxurious feel so should I get
>> 500 tpi? One thousand tpi?
>>
>> And what material? Egyptian cotton, sateen, pima?
>
> I buy at least a 600 count sateen. The difference is amazing IMO. They are
> nice and silky, the tight weave makes them wear better and they are even
> warmer. I get mine on Overstock.com, the last set was $60 for California
> King size.
>
> Melissa
>
>

About eight months ago I bought two sets of 300 tci [IIRC] sheets from
Overstock. They were a great price. And I've regretted it ever since.
I have to use a pill shaver on them whenever I use them. But, they
were just regular cotton.

Just recently, I had to work at the local Home Show for my company and
there was a vendor there selling 400 tci Egyptian cotton sateen sheets
for $20 a set. Some people I spoke with said they bought them last year
and they were good. So, I bought two sets and am very pleased with them.

When I work at the Home Show next year, I'll buy two more sets.

So, check out Home Shows. I think these folks travel all over. I'm in
FL. They are based in MA.

Another note about sheets...Years ago I started buying only white
sheets. That way I can mix and match and it looks okay.

..PC

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 4:21 pm
From: "Chloe"

"pc" <pc@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:8fOVi.13204$u7.991@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
>
> About eight months ago I bought two sets of 300 tci [IIRC] sheets from
> Overstock. They were a great price. And I've regretted it ever since. I
> have to use a pill shaver on them whenever I use them. But, they were
> just regular cotton. <snip>

Yeah, I thought all-cotton sheets wouldn't pill, but it happened pretty
quickly to a set I bought at Target. They were relatively inexpensive, and
initially the fabric felt soft and smooth. But they weren't a bargain at any
price. I'll pay more next time.

Last night was the first time it's been cold enough for the fleece sheets I
bought last season. They felt terrific, very warm and softer than any
flannel sheets I've ever had. They're 100 percent polyester, so it remains
to be seen how they'll hold up.

The all-white sheets are a good idea. I buy colors, but only ones that mix
and match in a way that doesn't annoy me. I've been known to even pick up an
all-cotton sheet at a thrift store once in a while.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rechargeable Batteries
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fe341f962358eb2a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 4:25 pm
From: Jeff

Anthony Matonak wrote:

> me@privacy.net wrote:
>
>>> AA is supposed to be the ideal size for NiCad or NiMH. For remotes I
>>> stick to alkaline AAA because alkalines hold their charge a lot longer.
>>
>>
>> Does anyone make rechargeable Lithium Ion AA cells and
>> charger?
>
>
> No. Lithium batteries have a cell voltage around 3.3V so they
> can't be used to replace single AA cells. They can be used to
> replace two AA cells though and this is common in digital
> cameras. You can use either a single lithium battery or two
> AAs.

In addition Lithium Ion batteries need to be used in devices that are
tailored for them. If they are discharged too far, they can not be
recharged.

Jeff
>
> Anthony

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 5:30 pm
From: "Don K"

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4726c3f1$0$32473$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...

> You can charge just about anything with just about anything. The
> difference is whether you're shortening the life of the battery
> by overcharging or something else along those lines.
>
> Most decent chargers these days have a computerized charging circuit
> where they monitor the voltage of the cells being charged and watch
> for a pattern, then stop the charging at "just" the right moment,
> so with that kind of charger, you can put in almost any battery
> (of the right type -- NiMH or NiCd, or whatever it says in the
> instructions) and it will "just work".

Duracell says monitoring temperature change is better than monitoring
voltage. They recommend charging at a high rate until the rate of temperature
change increases, then cutting the current to one-tenth for a half-hour, then
trickle-charging at 1/300th current to maintain charge indefinitely.

http://www.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/others/TECHBULL.pdf

Don

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 7:15 pm
From: Bill Rider

Don K wrote:
> "Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:4726c3f1$0$32473$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>> You can charge just about anything with just about anything. The
>> difference is whether you're shortening the life of the battery
>> by overcharging or something else along those lines.
>>
>> Most decent chargers these days have a computerized charging circuit
>> where they monitor the voltage of the cells being charged and watch
>> for a pattern, then stop the charging at "just" the right moment,
>> so with that kind of charger, you can put in almost any battery
>> (of the right type -- NiMH or NiCd, or whatever it says in the
>> instructions) and it will "just work".
>
> Duracell says monitoring temperature change is better than monitoring
> voltage. They recommend charging at a high rate until the rate of temperature
> change increases, then cutting the current to one-tenth for a half-hour, then
> trickle-charging at 1/300th current to maintain charge indefinitely.
>
> http://www.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/others/TECHBULL.pdf
>
> Don
>
>
Isidor Buchmann makes battery test equipment for battery manufacturers.
He also makes chargers for medical equipment, public-safety equipment,
and the military. He's against trickle charging nickel batteries. He
says it causes deterioration through the buildup of crystals.

He says to remove them as soon as they are charged and, if they've been
on the shelf, you could top them up before use. However, he recommends
trickle charging a new battery 24 hours.

His chargers monitor voltage, temperature, and time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.orientnike.com) Wholesale China Cheap Nike jordans sneakers air
force one bbc t-shirts
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5b8dff1c0404c405?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 4:34 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Low Interest Fixed APR Credit Cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e30b1a4de1bd8569?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Credit Card Offers Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f15032d5fca2ca21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Credit Card Applications - Apply for a Credit Card Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/83d7618aea45c34d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/70fd736b3ee7bff7?hl=en
==============================================================================

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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 6:05 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rick wrote:

> Duke of Hazard wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 1, 8:39 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > It just keeps getting worse. I wonder why this group gets so much more than
>> > others?
>> >
>> > Bob
>>
>> I agree, I follow many groups and something weird has taken over this
>> one. I notice it is often linked from groups.google.com , so maybe
>> that's where it's starting from. There is too much to report. We need
>> a moderated group. Anyone know how to create one?
>
> Sure. Who wants to be the moderator? And be chained to the group for the
> rest of your life, deleting the SPAM from a dedicated mail box, editing
> the approved messages to insert an approval code, and forwarding the
> approved messages to the group?
>
> Or just run away from the group, leaving yet another dead moderated
> group. Once that happens it's not easy for someone else to take over a
> moderated group when the existing moderator just abandons the process
> and disappears. That process can take months.
>
> If anyone wants to seriously consider doing it though visit the group:
>
> alt.config
>
> to begin the proposal process.

BTDT and the group was created. It's alive and the moderators pay
attention, but it doesn't get used much.

Spam isn't the problem with usenet, it's the loons. Check out what happened
to rec.bicycles.off-road.

Spam is easy to recognize and skip. Loons can be killfiled (dear lord when
will thunderbird get REAL filters for newsgroups, making it possible to
eliminate any postings originating from googlegroups?).

Nobody ever said it would be easy!

--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While you can't fool all the people all the time, you can fool
enough of them most of the time to make the rest impotent.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 6:23 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rick wrote:
>
>> Duke of Hazard wrote:
>>>
>>> On Oct 1, 8:39 pm, "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> It just keeps getting worse. I wonder why this group gets so much
>>>> more than others?
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>
>>> I agree, I follow many groups and something weird has taken over
>>> this one. I notice it is often linked from groups.google.com , so
>>> maybe that's where it's starting from. There is too much to report.
>>> We need a moderated group. Anyone know how to create one?
>>
>> Sure. Who wants to be the moderator? And be chained to the group for
>> the rest of your life, deleting the SPAM from a dedicated mail box,
>> editing the approved messages to insert an approval code, and
>> forwarding the approved messages to the group?
>>
>> Or just run away from the group, leaving yet another dead moderated
>> group. Once that happens it's not easy for someone else to take over
>> a moderated group when the existing moderator just abandons the
>> process and disappears. That process can take months.
>>
>> If anyone wants to seriously consider doing it though visit the
>> group: alt.config
>>
>> to begin the proposal process.
>
> BTDT and the group was created. It's alive and the moderators pay
> attention, but it doesn't get used much.
>
> Spam isn't the problem with usenet, it's the loons. Check out what
> happened to rec.bicycles.off-road.
>
> Spam is easy to recognize and skip. Loons can be killfiled (dear
> lord when will thunderbird get REAL filters for newsgroups, making it
> possible to eliminate any postings originating from googlegroups?).

Trouble is that there is plenty of non spam from groups.google now.

> Nobody ever said it would be easy!

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 7:32 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>>> If anyone wants to seriously consider doing it though visit the
>>> group: alt.config
>>>
>>> to begin the proposal process.
>>
>> BTDT and the group was created. It's alive and the moderators pay
>> attention, but it doesn't get used much.
>>
>> Spam isn't the problem with usenet, it's the loons. Check out what
>> happened to rec.bicycles.off-road.
>>
>> Spam is easy to recognize and skip. Loons can be killfiled (dear
>> lord when will thunderbird get REAL filters for newsgroups, making it
>> possible to eliminate any postings originating from googlegroups?).
>
> Trouble is that there is plenty of non spam from groups.google now.

Perhaps. Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas. I'm willing to make the
sacrifice.

>> Nobody ever said it would be easy!

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I don't care who your father is! Drop that cross
one more time and you're out of the parade!"

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 9:54 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>> The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rick wrote:
>>>
>>>> If anyone wants to seriously consider doing it though visit the
>>>> group: alt.config
>>>>
>>>> to begin the proposal process.
>>>
>>> BTDT and the group was created. It's alive and the moderators pay
>>> attention, but it doesn't get used much.
>>>
>>> Spam isn't the problem with usenet, it's the loons. Check out what
>>> happened to rec.bicycles.off-road.
>>>
>>> Spam is easy to recognize and skip. Loons can be killfiled (dear
>>> lord when will thunderbird get REAL filters for newsgroups, making
>>> it possible to eliminate any postings originating from googlegroups?).

>> Trouble is that there is plenty of non spam from groups.google now.

> Perhaps.

No perhaps about it, presumably because its easier to
setup than a conventional news client and news server.

> Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas.

A rolling stone gathers no moss.

> I'm willing to make the sacrifice.

It makes more sense to just ignore the spam. It isnt hard to work out what is spam.

>>> Nobody ever said it would be easy!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal air travel tips
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f74cce039262a897?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 6:14 pm
From: The Real Bev

rick++ wrote:

> I fly about once a month and its been years since Ive seen an empty
> seat on a plane.

Last previous time I flew was 1994. This time I selected seat 22F on both
legs of my return flight and 22E was empty on both. On the first leg of my
outbound flight there were 3 empty seats. Everybody hates Houston, I guess.

--
Cheers,
Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
While you can't fool all the people all the time, you can fool
enough of them most of the time to make the rest impotent.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 7:30 pm
From:

In article <13id3vin0q1cgc1@corp.supernews.com>, belfert@visi.com
says...

> Why not recycle the shredded paper? If you're worried about someone
> reassembling the strips get a crosscut shredder.

Shredder output is cut too small for paper-grade recycling. They
require longer fibers. My office recycling service specifically
prohibits shredder output, whether crosscut or ribbon, because of the
short average fiber length.

That's why the shredder bin is for confidential documents only -- it
takes slightly more time to segregate the waste stream, but that lets us
recycle everything that does not need to be shredded for
confidentiality.

But shredded paper is accepted in my household yard waste/compost
recycling service, since it's cut down fine enough to degrade reasonably
quickly.

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 7:40 pm
From:

> Here's a simple test. Tear a piece of paper. Do you see fibers
> several inches long sticking out the edges? Can you even spot
> the fibers without a microscope?

Tearing paper, like cutting it, breaks fibers. So no, you won't see
them sticking out that far from the edge of a tear.

Here's an alternative test: drop a spot of water-based ink on the paper
and let it sit for a while. Look around the edge of the drop at how far
the ink wicks out along individual fibers.

Now look at some shredded paper. Let's say the average fiber is only
1/8" long, and your shredded paper is cut in 1/8" strips. What fraction
of the fibers are now cut shorter than 1/8"?

--
josh@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 9:23 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Just A User wrote:
> Logan Shaw wrote:
>> Just A User wrote:
>>> I shred important documents that have personal info on them rather
>>> than just throwing them in the recycle or regular trash but what to
>>> do with all those shreds? I save them for when I go camping for
>>> starting a campfire, but only need a little for this purpose. So if
>>> there any frugal / environmentally friendly for getting rid of this
>>> waste I would appreciate any suggestions.

>> Collect a bunch of paper together. Soak it in water until it becomes a
>> pulp. Then bleach it. Finally, press it out into a very thin sheet,
>> let it dry completely, and cut it into rectangles of convenient sizes,
>> say 8.5"x11". Then get a pen, and write down all the reasons you could
>> possibly have chosen to waste your precious few moments here on the
>> planet
>> obsessing over what to do with recyclable paper rather than just putting
>> it in the recycle bin. Then go for a hike, or go on a cruise, or write
>> a novel, or volunteer for some local group that actually does some good
>> in the world, or something. :-)

> A novel! Great idea, I cam write about all the characters that post to
> usenet groups, a.k.a. all the people in my killfile.

I apologize for that comment. I meant for it to be a humorous and
slightly snarky, but reading over it again, I think if I were reading
it, it would look like a personal slam.

I was really just trying to say that putting the stuff in the recycle bin
may, in fact, be the best thing you can do with it, and if it is, it
doesn't do much good to spend time on it. If you want to make the world a
better place, there are probably better ways to spend that time doing it.

By the way, you can actually soak the paper in water and make it into a
sort of pulp, then compress it into a big solid mass, let it dry for
several weeks, and then you have a sort of faux log for the fireplace.
But according to the results of some googling, the logs don't burn as
well as good firewood. Which makes sense, actually: not all wood is
good for burning. Where I live, we have a bunch of cedar all over the
place just growing wild, but cedar doesn't burn well. It pops and
sputters. The point being that just because something *can* burn
doesn't mean it's a good fuel. In fact, some woods leave unwanted or
dangerous deposits in the chimney. So I personally wouldn't burn logs
made out of shredded paper even if I could, at least not without learning
more about it.

Another possible use is packing materials. But I personally am not
too comfortable with that: if it was sensitive enough to shred, it's
sensitive enough not to send to someone you know or someone you do
business with.

So unless someone comes up with something clever that I haven't heard
before, my best idea is throw it in the recycle bin.

- Logan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: flush da toilet with rain-water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d09a42bdb27b1164?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 30 2007 7:44 pm
From: The Real Bev

Anthony Matonak wrote:

> All this is really beside the point as 90+ percent of the water use
> in the United States (and probably elsewhere) is used in agriculture
> and industry. Your flush is like a drop in the bucket compared their
> use of water.

Irrelevant if homeowners have to pay $80/month for <3000 gallons.

--
Cheers, Bev
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"I don't care who your father is! Drop that cross
one more time and you're out of the parade!"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: )()()(SEXX&LIVE &TAMIL FUCKINGSTIL)()()(
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ae6ef1356bdff108?hl=en
==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Make Up To 100's of $ per Day with Ease!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d54ec02214005ac4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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Wednesday, October 31, 2007

24 new messages in 13 topics - digest

22 new messages in 14 topics - digest