Frugal Living: Oct 15, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Honda airbags that impale you with shards of metal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aca55cb4f47d56be?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 6:14 am
From: RickMerrill

blythe b wrote:
> http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/31/honda.recall/index.html

Maybe you should Shut your eyes upon impact? ;-)

Also, remember to put your hands at 9:00 and 3:00.
If you put your hands at the old 10-2 and the airbag
fires off it has happened that the driver's thumbs were broken!

Hands now go at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock if you drive with airbags.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 10:38 am
From: Vandy Terre

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:14:16 -0400, RickMerrill
<Rick0.merrill@gmail.lessspam.com> wrote:

>blythe b wrote:
>> http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/31/honda.recall/index.html
>
>
>Maybe you should Shut your eyes upon impact? ;-)
>
>Also, remember to put your hands at 9:00 and 3:00.
>If you put your hands at the old 10-2 and the airbag
>fires off it has happened that the driver's thumbs were broken!
>
>Hands now go at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock if you drive with airbags.

Thumbs should never be inside the steering wheel according the big rig trucker
that helped teach me to drive. The reason is that in fighting for control of a
vehicle a thumb can be broken by the torching wheel. In an emergency you don't
need to add to your problems by having a broken thumb. Line the thumb up on the
steering wheel and fold fingers around it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to get rid of a roommate?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a3fd1dedade4e5a6?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 6:18 am
From: Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply

« Jeem » wrote:
>
> Agreed. If there is no rental agreement or lease, she has no
> obligation to allow the BF to live with her. She is doing this just of
> her own free will. She had a romantic interest in the man and now she
> does not. That does not obligate her to allow him to live in her home.
> If they were renting an apartment or house and both names were on the
> lease, that would be a different story.

I know from personal experience that this is not true in California.

Marsha (are you the same Marsha I know from SMT?), you could call your
sister's local police department and given them details and ask what her
options are -- or have her call.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 6:20 am
From: Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply

Marsha wrote:
>
> Yep. She's already "forbidden" from talking to the neighbor (a friendly
> male).

That in itself is good starting grounds for a domestic violence case.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 6:20 am
From: Samatha Hill -- take out TRASH to reply

What he said.

ranck@vt.edu wrote:
>
> Your sister needs to call a domestic abuse hotline. They are available
> everywhere, and the people there will have information about who to call
> and how to proceed. They will have the information that is pertinent to
> her local area and state. She should not wait until he gets violent, she
> should call now! At the least they'll be able to give her some perspective.
>
> She will probably make excuses, "he's not that bad," etc. Try to convince
> her that she doesn't have to take any of the advice she gets, but they
> will know about the legal issues and it won't cost her anything to just
> find out what her options are.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 11:03 am
From: "sr"

Don't forget the surveillance . I got a cheap system from Radio Shack.
Even I could hook it up.
Caught a man that had worked here before: Snooping around., after I had
left the homeplace.
Just saying,
When he breaks in, you need the evidence
I don't have spell ck. please excuse
"Dave C." <noway@nohow.never> wrote in message
news:20091011233243.7c43e568.noway@nohow.never...
>
>>
>> unless she as a written lease agreement she can simply change the
>> locks and leave
>> his stuff in plastic sacks on the front law, notify the police of
>> potential issues, and have
>> someone stay with her until the dust settles.
>>
>>
>> Phil scott I am not an attorney
>
> I like your approach. But as I wrote earlier, I'd modify it a bit.
> Instead of having friends stay with her, I think she should stay with
> friends. Leave the house empty and locked up tight for a while. The
> advantage of this approach is that she doesn't have to put up with the
> ex-boyfriend's crap for a while. I think it would be better if he didn't
> have access to her AT ALL for a while. Friends in the house might be able
> to keep the guy out or modify his behavior so that it isn't so bad. But
> he'll still find a way to abuse her probably. At the very least, there
> will still be drama and head games to deal with.
>
> That's why I think you deny the ex-bf access to the house AND the girl, by
> locking up the house tight and having the girl stay with friends or the
> sister for a while. -Dave

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TOPIC: Tycooncashflow :D I'm amazed ;)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/402a18aba7e2dce5?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 6:37 am
From: Al

On Oct 15, 9:10 am, TycoonCashFlow <jonas.rols...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys! :)

> Edit1: Haha! Today I made 16,24$ while I was at school, and I had only
> worked with it 15-30 min the day before!
>
> Thanks, Jonas

You must work harder at school, especially remedial math.

Yours truly,
Tom Vu

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e0193dddbe24ce2a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 7:16 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: There is no "right" to health care
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e14cb160c2e4a0dd?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 7:25 am
From: K

tmclone, a looter, wrote:
> On Oct 15, 12:17 am, Coffee's For Closers <Usenet2...@THE-DOMAIN-
> IN.SIG> wrote:
>> In article <bcedb7bc-0004-40dc-9480-
>> 088c38e95...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>> tmcl...@searchmachine.com says...
>>
>>> That the USA doesn't have universal, free healthcare for all,
>>> funded by taxes is shameful. We are supposedly the
>>> "greatest country on earth" yet we can't provide
>>> healthcare to all our citizens. We rank behind Cuba on
>>> healthcare. Pathetic. The idea of "for profit" healthcare
>>> is insane. It ought to be illegal.
>> You think that it is wrong to make money by providing healthcare?
>> So does that mean that doctors, nurses, etc, shouldn't be paid,
>> since that involves personally profiting from providing
>> healthcare?
>>
>
> You're an idiot. The "profit" isn't the money being paid to the
> medical providers for the actual care.

Of course a very large part of it is. The pharmaceutical companies make
profits. The manufacturers of MRI and CT machines make profits. The
blood labs and other diagnostic test centers make profits. The
investor-owned hospital chains are making profits. And of course the
doctors, and many nurses, are very well paid.

> That's the "cost" of the care.

It's cost to someone, and revenue to those who receive it, and in that
revenue is profit for those who run their businesses well.

> The "profit" is the billions of $ the insurance companies make. At
> least 30% of our healthcare $ goes right into the pockets of the
> insurance companies.

I keep hearing that figure tossed around carelessly by slovenly weak
thinkers like you, and I can never get anyone to give a citation for it.
I do commonly hear critics say that something like 30% of medical
expenditure goes for "administrative overhead", but very obviously if
they're talking about the revenues of insurance companies, not all of
that is profit. Insurance companies have to pay their employees, and
the computer systems aren't free.

> It's obscene.

What's obscene is your ignorant, clueless whining - the whining of a looter.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 9:52 am
From: Michael Coburn

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:57:04 -0700, Wilson Woods wrote:

> Michael Coburn, a looter, wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:17:23 -0700, Coffee's For Closers wrote:
>>
>>> In article <bcedb7bc-0004-40dc-9480-
>>> 088c38e95085@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, tmclone@searchmachine.com
>>> says...
>>>> That the USA doesn't have universal, free healthcare for all, funded
>>>> by taxes is shameful. We are supposedly the "greatest country on
>>>> earth" yet we can't provide healthcare to all our citizens. We rank
>>>> behind Cuba on healthcare. Pathetic. The idea of "for profit"
>>>> healthcare is insane. It ought to be illegal.
>>>
>>> You think that it is wrong to make money by providing healthcare?
>>
>> Nope. It is the profits from providing health _insurance_ that are
>> "wrong" (meaning economically perverse).
>
> No, that's bullshit. There's nothing perverse about health insurance -
> no more than any other kind of risk-spreading scheme.

So tell us. What exactly is the rationale for profits in regard to
health insurance. In what way do these "profits" induce some new
technological activity or new combination of activities that provide a
better end result? Profit is not "coddled" because it is a sacred
lollipop. In the case of actual businesses the lust for profits drive
innovation and productivity. In health insurance the lust for profits
drives theft and greed. There is no innovation in pushing paper around.
Insurance companies do the math and figure out how to offer products that
squeeze money out of the statistics in the best case. IN the worst case
they are constantly researching how to legally screw the policy holders
out of benefits. Both of these activities are perverse and add nothing
to insurance. Insurance is a statistical certainty and when it is not
there is nothing beneficial that can be done.

>>> So
>>> does that mean that doctors, nurses, etc, shouldn't be paid, since
>>> that involves personally profiting from providing healthcare?
>>
>> Nope. People will be rewarded for their contribution to the society in
>> all fields of endeavor in a market situation regardless of who the
>> _insurer_ might be. The Canadians got this one right.
>
> Canada has it wrong. Wait times are already long, and growing longer.

http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/cpa/mediasite/waitlist/median.html

The wait times have increase but are the same as they were in 2003 with
an average wait of 5 weeks for non emergency surgery. The problem can be
cured by upping the ante on the payments to allow more facilities. And
they would still be spending a lot less on health care than all of the
other sovereignties.

> You seem not to realize that Canada is on the verge of allowing private
> insurance again.

We will see what Canada actually does. But I'd bet that the Canadian
system will not be replaced by any private insurance sector.

>> The Netherlands
>> had it even more right and then got Reaganized by a bunch of freepers.
>
> You don't know anything about Dutch health care, looter.

Here ya go, lying pig:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_Netherlands

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/november/lessons_from_the_net.php

--
"Those are my opinions and you can't have em" -- Bart Simpson

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 9:54 am
From: Beam Me Up Scotty

never@millions.com wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 21:17:23 -0700, Coffee's For Closers
> <Usenet2009@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
>
>> In article <bcedb7bc-0004-40dc-9480-
>> 088c38e95085@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>> tmclone@searchmachine.com says...
>>> That the USA doesn't have universal, free healthcare for all,
>>> funded by taxes is shameful. We are supposedly the
>>> "greatest country on earth" yet we can't provide
>>> healthcare to all our citizens. We rank behind Cuba on
>>> healthcare. Pathetic. The idea of "for profit" healthcare
>>> is insane. It ought to be illegal.
>>
>> You think that it is wrong to make money by providing healthcare?
>> So does that mean that doctors, nurses, etc, shouldn't be paid,
>> since that involves personally profiting from providing
>> healthcare?
>

Is it wrong to charge for trash removal that we all need? You do realize
that the Medical industry has a lot of trash. All that trash is becoming
more expensive to deal with due to REGULATIONS.... the PROFIT in
Medical treatment is no higher than other industries.

So look to the inner costs that are high because of GOVERNMENT that is
already causing things like Medical waste to cost more than other
nations that don't strangle their medical systems with.

To fight the high cost of medical care then fight the regulations and
the services that the medical industry uses.

Start with Companies like Waste Management....

> The halth care "industrialized system" has more non-medical personnel
> working in the so-called system than actual medical personnel, from
> the nurses to doctors. The are loads of supervisor administrotors
> running the medical field. It's at best a clerical heaven.
>
> If you want to see where the money is going, just look who's taking
> care of the "peper", not the the medical folks. Medical folks are busy
> caring for the patience.
>
> *disregard typos)
>
> DCI

*BE VERY CONCERNED*

Being Liberal means, never knowing that, you are your own worst enemy.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 11:56 am
From: freeisbest

On Oct 15, 7:56 am, tmclone <tmcl...@searchmachine.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 12:17 am, Coffee's For Closers <Usenet2...@THE-DOMAIN-
>
>
>
> IN.SIG> wrote:
> > In article <bcedb7bc-0004-40dc-9480-
> > 088c38e95...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> > tmcl...@searchmachine.com says...
>
> > > That the USA doesn't have universal, free healthcare for all,
> > > funded by taxes is shameful. We are supposedly the
> > > "greatest country on earth" yet we can't provide
> > > healthcare to all our citizens. We rank behind Cuba on
> > > healthcare. Pathetic. The idea of "for profit" healthcare
> > > is insane. It ought to be illegal.
>
> > You think that it is wrong to make money by providing healthcare?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for asking. The answer is YES, OF COURSE it is wrong
to make money by providing healthcare for profit. This is
particularly true in our crippled system, where medical gatekeeper
businesses rationing care in order to produce the largest possible
profit for medical-business owners and their stockholders.
The civilized world knows that profit has no place in life-and-
death decisions of health care. TEach of the other nations of our
culture have carefully set up their own medical care system to include
all the people in each nation. And they have been successful in
producing good care and good health for their people... WITHOUT
sucking up a third of their healthcare money to overpay
multimillionaires.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-snip-
>
> You're an idiot. The "profit" isn't the money being paid to the
> medical providers for the actual care. That's the "cost" of the care.
> The "profit" is the billions of $ the insurance companies make. At
> least 30% of our healthcare $ goes right into the pockets of the
> insurance companies. It's obscene. PLONK.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A cynical friend tells me that the so-called "co-pay" completely
pay for most drugs - all the various other payments are profit.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 12:02 pm
From: freeisbest

On Oct 15, 10:25 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> tmclone, a looter, wrote:
> > On Oct 15, 12:17 am, Coffee's For Closers <Usenet2...@THE-DOMAIN-
> > IN.SIG> wrote:
> >> In article <bcedb7bc-0004-40dc-9480-
> >> 088c38e95...@z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> >> tmcl...@searchmachine.com says...
>
> >>> That the USA doesn't have universal, free healthcare for all,
> >>> funded by taxes is shameful. We are supposedly the
> >>> "greatest country on earth" yet we can't provide
> >>> healthcare to all our citizens. We rank behind Cuba on
> >>> healthcare. Pathetic. The idea of "for profit" healthcare
> >>> is insane. It ought to be illegal.
> >> You think that it is wrong to make money by providing healthcare?
> >> So does that mean that doctors, nurses, etc, shouldn't be paid,
> >> since that involves personally profiting from providing
> >> healthcare?
>
> > You're an idiot. The "profit" isn't the money being paid to the
> > medical providers for the actual care.
>
> Of course a very large part of it is. The pharmaceutical companies make
> profits. The manufacturers of MRI and CT machines make profits. The
> blood labs and other diagnostic test centers make profits. The
> investor-owned hospital chains are making profits. And of course the
> doctors, and many nurses, are very well paid.
>
> > That's the "cost" of the care.
>
> It's cost to someone, and revenue to those who receive it, and in that
> revenue is profit for those who run their businesses well.
>
> > The "profit" is the billions of $ the insurance companies make.
> > At least 30% of our healthcare $ goes right into the pockets
> > of the insurance companies.
>
> I keep hearing that figure tossed around carelessly by slovenly
> weak thinkers like you, and I can never get anyone to give a
> citation for it.
-snip-
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You keep hearing that figure, but no one knows the truth but you.
If everyone but you is a slovenly weak thinker, consider doing the
research yourself instead of trying to profit from someone else's time
and effort.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My nephew wrote me for the first time!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0c3321a9b4b163ea?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 7:25 am
From: "sr"

I'm in the process of picking over the stash of prebought gifts for family
kids, that will now be going
to a group home for kids without homes.
14 years of giving to family and no thank yous was the trigger.
When their great grandfather was in the dying process for 6 months, not a
single card nor call from
the kids, was another trigger.
When I get out of this state, I'll be leaving no forwarding address, !
so there will be no letters for contributions coming to me like the original
poster got from his nephew!
=================
"Zee" <zzaldy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2b2bc661-d2ab-4c62-b8b9-ae73e5f21127@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>I agree...seems like thank yous are rare commodities nowadays.
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 9:08 am
From: "sr"

My father spent 86 thousand dollars on my son's family, 43 to my son 43 to
the great grand kids.
What did my father get in return: No cards, No calls as he laid on his
death bed for 6 months.
Be glad the nephew only wants 500. Ofcourse there will be more request down
the line.
Snip it in the BUD, I say

"Max" <im.1.maxaluminum@xoxy.net> wrote in message
news:66ae9cd1-2cfd-4cef-b6c3-6219493548fc@g19g2000yqo.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 13, 7:36 pm, "Bill" <billnomailnosp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> My 18 year old nephew wrote me a letter!
>>
>> This is the very first time he has done this. He has never before written
>> to
>> me, has never called me, nor has he ever written me a thank you note for
>> the
>> gifts I have given him at Christmas time...
>>
>> In his "form letter", he is asking for a $500.00 donation for a sports
>> program at his school!
>>
>> He does get right to the point about the money. Does not waste any ink by
>> saying hello to me or asking how I am doing or telling me how he is
>> doing.
>>
>> He will not get a cent from me!
>>
>> Maybe he will be offended and stop writing to me?
>
> You should be more proud of your nephew competing in the Special
> Olympics just like his favorite uncle.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 9:34 am
From: "Bill"

"sr" wrote in message
> I'm in the process of picking over the stash of prebought gifts for family
> > kids, that will now be going
> to a group home for kids without homes.
> 14 years of giving to family and no thank yous was the trigger...
>

Actually thinking about this, when I was a kid, we would "butter someone up"
if we wanted something - sweet talk them, do nice things for them, etc. I
guess that is a thing of the past now?

As to needy kids, there is a "sharing Christmas tree" at my local small town
fire department. Needy kids place cards on the tree requesting presents. The
things these kids are asking for will break your heart! One will want new
shoes and that is it. Another will want a new T-shirt and that is all the
kid is asking for. Another socks, etc. Very basic requests!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cell phone service on Verizon's Network: $24.60 for 1200 minutes/1200
text or picture messages/50MB of Data.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9c475631a4242f50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 7:43 am
From: George

SMS wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> And because of that a family plan is usually the best deal for
>> multiple phones.
>
> I think that this was true up until this new plan was made available. It
> would cost about 3-4x for four phones on a family plan for a similar
> amount of minutes and messaging and data, but that doesn't include the
> value of the subsidized phones from Verizon. It's more like 2-3x if you
> factor in the cost of the free/discounted phones every two years.
>
>> Since mobile to mobile calling is "free". That means you only need a
>> small plan.
>
> I find that even with nearly everyone I know in the Bay Area on Verizon,
> that 450 peak minutes per person is necessary. It's not the same in all
> areas of the country since in most areas the other carriers aren't as
> bad as they are here and users are more spread out onto other carriers.
> In my area, prior to the iPhone, it'd be rather rare to find many users
> not on Verizon, at least in my circles of relatives, co-workers, and
> friends because the difference in coverage quality is so stark.
>
>> Also your friends and relatives won't appreciate that when you get
>> your Pageplus plan they will now be paying for minutes when you call.
>
> This is true.
>
>> Extra MB of data are
>>> $0.60 each (which can really add up if you're a heavy data user, but
>>> AT&T and Verizon charge about $2/MB so it's not a bad deal).
>>
>> But basically useless for a smartphone.
>
> I find the exact opposite. While my regular account is on Verizon (for
> now) I have a smart phone on PagePlus. I don't use it like some people
> use their iPhones, using it on the web every free moment of my life, I
> just use it when I actually have a need to use it. It would be hard to
> us 50MB a month when free WiFi has become ubiquitous, when MMS doesn't
> come out of the 50MB, and when I have high speed connectivity at home
> and work. If I commuted by train, and tethered, then that would be a
> different story. On Verizon, if I wanted just a small data plan I'd be
> paying $10 for 25MB per phone and if I had a smart phone I would be
> required to sign up for a minimum of a $30/month data plan.

I have heard about this "ubiquitous" WiFi from other fanboys.
Unfortunately it isn't that common in the 5 states where I normally
travel. Not everyone has your particular circumstances or is stupid
because of the choices they make.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 8:46 am
From: SMS

George wrote:

> I have heard about this "ubiquitous" WiFi from other fanboys.

LOL, watch who you're calling a fanboy!

> Unfortunately it isn't that common in the 5 states where I normally
> travel. Not everyone has your particular circumstances or is stupid
> because of the choices they make.

You're right though, I shouldn't have generalized about the availability
of WiFi judging from my experiences in more urban states like
California, the eastern seaboard, and Florida. I'm sure there are plenty
of places where WiFi is less common, though even in remote towns the
motels have some sort of WiFi, even if the system is connected to a
rather slow satellite connection. Even many campgrounds in California
now have WiFi available though it isn't free.

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e420b86db297c093?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: tax credits for energy efficiency
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0efde9048032ac51?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 9:51 am
From: "OhioGuy"

We are in the process of getting bids for a whole house renovation for a
home we purchased through a HUD auction. (we're financing through an FHA
203k rehab loan)

- roof needs replaced
- about 8 windows need replaced
- no appliances are present
- water heater needs replaced
- furnace and heat pump need replaced
(home is 100% electric - no natural gas available)

We are interested in maximizing energy efficiency of the place, plus
maximizing any sort of income tax credits that are available. However, we
have to balance that with the fact that any additional costs we incur that
aren't strictly necessary will be added to the cost of our loan, and we'll
end up paying interest on it.

Thankfully, it looks like a LOT of insulation was added to the attic in
the last few years. In fact, I'd say it has been maxed out, and I'm very
happy to see that.

On the negative side, the first bid for replacement of the water heater,
"air handler" and heat pump was $6,400. Over the past 6 years, we had the
gas water heater and gas furnace here replaced for less than $2k. (again,
really wish we had a gas hookup, but I doubt that will change soon - and
yes, I realize that our current house setup didn't have whole house AC, or a
heat pump)

I've been told different stories about tax credits by all of the various
potential contractors who have come out to write up bids. Some say there is
a cap of $1,500 total for both 2009 and 2010. Others say that there is a
30% tax credit for windows, another for the roof, and yet another for the
heating, water heater & heat pump. So far, I've decided to be a pessimist
and cautiously think that the total tax credit for this year is $1,500 max.

Can anyone point me to a website that would be appropriate for such info
when so many house repairs are involved? (I especially need info on limits,
and combining many energy efficient updates)

For example, we need all of our appliances. I was thinking of just buying
used ones off of Craigslist, but then again, if we could somehow get a tax
benefit, maybe it would be worth buying new. Lowe's has a 20% off energy
star appliances sale going on right now. If there is a tax credit on top of
that, it might be worth buying them new, especially if we can roll them in
to the cost of the loan. Electricity savings on the refrigerator alone
would probably more than pay for the interest payments on it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Living longer frugally... alzheimers and diabetes cures on the way
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fc04e4384f5365e3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 8:56 am
From: phil scott

I am completing a proof of concept trial with ____, an engineered
enzyme. (billions in research, ive followed it since 1995 when I
lucked onto the Harvard U teams pic on line then followed links),
intended to test the concept of disolving amyloid plaques from the
pancreas (that produces insulin).

its 7 months, many side effects, but has been grossly rejuvinating..
my stamina is returning, and blood sugar on a normal diet dropping
into normal ranges... and still, 5 months after the 4 weeks worth of
daily injections, improving. My numbers. glucose fasting 200+
prior, currently on a 'normal' healthy diet under 130, and on say
salmon and salads, vegitables, etc under 100. (not remotely possible
prior to the use of the engineered enzyme... 2 daily injections for 4
or 5 weeks.. painless..but hard core side effects)

***

There is one primary issue.

the cause. Not broadly known but speculated on by the most advanced
researchers for a few decades... that a type of partial protien,
amyloid plaques (many varieties) cloggs up the organs precluding
normal function, causing failure and many aspects of 'normal' aging.

The recent acceleration in diabetes II, imo, is a result of decreasing
particle size in processed food, allowing those finely divided foods
to leak through the gut wall, into the blood stream, where the organs
filter them out, leaving them as amyloid deposits..that is my own
conclusion, not discussed in public by
main line science.

The enzmmes disolve those. and in my case from the heart as well
(collapse level weakness ensued for a few weeks, now recovered).....
at my age some people have 10 to 30% of their heart mass consisting of
amyloid depostits (for micro scans search youtube... author
'washington deceit' 'heart', 'amyloids'...he is a pathologist.)..

That study is still going on...you can get into it if you are on
metformin, with a1c level over 7 and not demonstrating an alergy to
the enzymes... lacking that it will maybe 5 years or more before
this reaches the market, and the protocol might be expensive.. 20 to
30k as a guess... if you are interested post here and I will email you
the contact info.

***
other notes:

Ive been in this sort of research, myself as guinney pig for about 12
years now, with many different self developed protocols, searchable on
google, that worked but carry high risk, have bad side effects and
took years. It is my view that the skin stores vast quantities of
these amyloids and related plaques, and the organs just under the
skin, nerve channels and the ganglia store the most... and that maybe
90% in my case came from over use of left brain function (dead brain
cells form amyloid plaques)....

as these have been dissapearing, due to immune reactions, and now the
use of the engineered enzyme my skin is rejuvinated...I look about 50
according to others (im 68)..... my view is that its just normal,
older skin is is a result of these plaque accumulations seen in
aging... people without the problem do not demonstrate the problem.

(that percentage increases with age, my guess, confirmed by other
studies is that over 65 all this is an issue at the 50% or so level...
if you have moles and a tendency to look a pit puffy..and yer wits are
headed south...you are a mid stage case. (reversible, but not on the
market yet).. the protocil I used is way too risky, slow and with side
effects most wouldnt tolerate).

Shown to reverse and arrest the problem recently: 5 or 6 cups of
coffee a day, and ginko billoba 180 mg per day,... the coffee can
damage the kidneys though...so drink 10 to 15 glasses of water a
day... get your doctors advice if he has a clue about this range of
issues.. few do though..but they know about too much coffee and kidney
stones.....you have to do your own research and take your own
chances. the idea would be to stall off the problem until solutions
reach the market... you shouldnt have to wait long.. and the damage is
reversible.

Meantime eat whole, unprocessed foods... thats no breads, maybe sprout
bread is fine.. excercise a lot, keep working. research and try a wide
range of enzyme suppliments and pro biotics..both crucial as you age.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheap wholesale CAP, Winter Hat (Aff, Bape, CA, Coogi, ED, Gucci..
.) at www.fjrjtrade.com <paypal payment>
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/955efbf176d944ef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 9:59 am
From: fjrjtrade

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: I remember back when...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/32a108e42a16b497?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 11:07 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:12:44 +1100, "holarchy" <holarchy@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you
>have always been completely off with the fucking fairies.

I see fuckwad is still around, being a loser as usual. Hi, fuckwad!
(waves with a salute)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Geithner aides made millions on Wall Street
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/675400225faf375e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 10:09 am
From: martin

On Oct 15, 6:58 am, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
wrote:
> Umm, conflict of interest anyone?
>
> Remember the good old days when rotten conservatives got rich by actually
> providing products or services people wanted to buy. Now just get into a
> crooked administration and act on insider information. The calim the people
> that catch you are racists.
>
> The structure is to infested to fumigate. Burn it down and start over.
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f012c4b2-b8f6-11de-98ee-00144feab49a.html
>
> Financial Times FT.com
> Geithner aides made millions on Wall Street
>
> By Tom Braithwaite in Washington
>
> Published: October 14 2009 20:49 | Last updated: October 14 2009 20:49
>
> Obama administration officials now working on fixing and regulating the
> financial system were beneficiaries of several million dollars in pay from
> Wall Street and private equity companies, it has been revealed.
>
> Financial disclosure forms show that prior to joining the government, Gene
> Sperling, a senior Treasury adviser, was paid $887,727 by Goldman Sachs and
> $158,000 for speeches to companies that included Stanford Group, the company
> run by Sir Allen Stanford, who has since been charged with fraud.
>
> Mr Sperling's compensation from Goldman was for work on a philanthropic
> project. His overall pay, including for his main job at the Council on
> Foreign Relations, totalled $2.2m in the 13 months to January.
>
> The forms, which were first obtained by Bloomberg, showed that Matthew
> Kabaker, another adviser in the Treasury, earned $5.8m at Blackstone, the
> private equity firm, in the two years before joining the administration to
> work on plans to support banks and spur lending. Much of the compensation was
> in stock.
>
> Lewis Alexander, another adviser, was chief economist to Citigroup before
> joining the administration; he was paid $2.4m in the last two years.
>
> Even though some of the officials whose previous salaries were disclosed are
> senior, many were appointed as "counselors", meaning they escaped Senate
> confirmation hearings which could have highlighted their past remuneration
> and employment at a time of heightened animosity towards the financial
> industry.
>
> Earlier this month the release of the telephone call logs of Tim Geithner,
> Treasury secretary, showed he had numerous conversations with a number of
> Wall Street executives, sparking allegations that the administration was too
> close to the industry.
>
> Officials argued then and on Wednesday that it was important to have skilled
> people working for the government as it crafted complicated financial rescues
> and for Mr Geithner to communicate with financial sector executives. Mr
> Geithner, the former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, has
> never worked on Wall Street.
>
> Mr Obama, however, has hit out at the culture that he said prevailed before
> last year's financial crisis – at a time when many of the Treasury officials
> were working on Wall Street and related businesses.
>
> "We will not go back to the days of reckless behaviour and unchecked excess
> that was at the heart of this crisis, where too many were motivated only by
> the appetite for quick kills and bloated bonuses," he said at a speech in New
> York last month.
>
> Previous releases of disclosure forms revealed the $5.2m paid to Lawrence
> Summers, chief economic adviser to the White House, by DE Shaw, the hedge
> fund, in the two years before he joined the administration.
>
> The disclosures come during a complicated time for the relationship between
> the Obama administration and business, with officials accused of being too
> close to companies on the one hand and encountering increased criticism from
> business lobby groups on the other.
>
> The US Chamber of Commerce on Wednesday launched its "campaign for free
> enterprise", arguing the private sector was under threat from various over-
> reaching government plans, including for a Consumer Financial Protection
> Agency and a cap-and-trade scheme to reduce carbon emissions.
>
> Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009. Print a single copy of this
> article for personal use. Contact us if you wish to print more to distribute
> to others.
>
> "FT" and "Financial Times" are trademarks of the Financial Times. Privacy
> policy | Terms
> © Copyright The Financial Times Ltd 2009.

Break their grubbing balls! (America needs a total rebuild, but first
it
decay a tad more.

http://www.vdare.com/ V-Dare

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 10:28 am
From: GLOBALIST

Dear Mr Simpleton,
This is all money they made as 'private citizens' ,before they ever
accepted a federal job and why were they offered the federal jobs in
the first place? BECAUSE they did understand how Wallstreet works and
functions. They were not training Arabian horses and called in to
work on something that they did not know anything about.
Be as shocked as you want, but nothing they
did was illegal or unethical.
Would you let folks who hid out during the Vietnam war be the
commander and chief? Opps! Sorry you already did that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: AT&T Mobility Offers Unlimited Prepaid for $60/month--Compare this with
other Unlimited Prepaid Plans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52168902795dda98?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Oct 15 2009 11:09 am
From: Dennis Ferguson

On 2009-10-15, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> The key difference in T-Mobile prepaid is now you can get coverage on
> many GSM systems throughout the country, including (but not not limited
> to) AT&T, if T-Mobile has no network in that area (while AT&T prepaid
> does not allow much of that coverage on the other networks).

Do you know any place where T-Mobile roams on AT&T? I recall thinking
this was the case when I was a T-Mobile postpaid customer, quite
a few years ago, but I've not found a place where I've even been
able to force the phone onto AT&T in recent years. Most recently
I was in 54481, with no T-Mobile anywhere, but AT&T was still telling
my phone to kiss off.

There are at least 20-something GSM operators in the country other
than T-Mobile and AT&T. Maybe T-Mobile built their roaming coverage
from those alone?

Dennis Ferguson

==============================================================================

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Thursday, October 15, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 14 topics - digest