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* !!!!!### Make BILLIONS Online Without Investment - 1 messages, 1 author
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* Where did the 400 billion USD in subprime mortgage losses go - 5 messages, 5
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TOPIC: !!!!!### Make BILLIONS Online Without Investment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/834fda004e5c8526?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 1:47 am
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 4:59 am
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TOPIC: Where did the 400 billion USD in subprime mortgage losses go
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b5ad94e9eb8e056?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 6:37 am
From: suds mcduff
RightEagle wrote:
> On Nov 20, 1:28 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> FrediFizzx <fredifi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> "Shaun Eli" <missingch...@brainchampagne.com> wrote in message
>>> news:00b8ce53-93d1-4559-a800-a5f190dada63@b36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> An example:
>>>> Pedro bought a house ten years ago for $100,000. Last year it was
>>>> worth $500,000 ('worth' because someone was willing to pay that
>>>> much). Pedro takes his $400,000 gain by selling the house to Joe.
>>>> Now-- Joe wasn't actually qualified for his mortgage, and defaults,
>>>> owing, let's say, $490,000.
>>>> Because there are a lot of these circumstances, and more sellers than
>>>> buyers, the house is now worth only $300,000.
>>>> Joe defaults on his mortgage, loses his $10,000 down payment. The
>>>> bank sells the house for $300,000, losing $190,000.
>>>> Where'd the money go? Into Pedro's new house, or his bank account,
>>>> or whatever. But it's not Pedro's fault that someone was willing to
>>>> pay $500,000 for his house last year. It's also not Joe's fault
>>>> that the house is worth only $300,000 today. Of course if Joe
>>>> hadn't defaulted it wouldn't have mattered, because he'd still be
>>>> living in the house and making payments on it, regardless of what
>>>> it's actually worth at any random point in time. And you could say
>>>> that it's maybe Joe's fault that he took a mortgage he couldn't
>>>> really afford, as well as maybe the bank's (and/or mortgage
>>>> broker's) fault for lending him the money. There's plenty of blame
>>>> to go around but the one who may have ended up with the money isn't
>>>> necessarily the culprit, if there is any in any particular case.
>>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at the top have the money.
>> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the large
>> oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with those
>> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hedge funds drive up the price of Subprime Funds, and the Media in
> turn, caused a huge drop in the prices because of the negative slant
> of news in general. Thus investment firms lost billions on a bet that
> these funds would keep rising, which they could not because of rising
> interest rates.
>
> http://www.globaltreeregistry.com/Home_Page.html
>
I suppose it was only a matter of time until a right wingnut blamed the
sub-prime defaults on the media....
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 7:35 am
From: jdoe
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:18:29 -0500, "Mike M." <steam@shovel.com>
wrote:
>
>"val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:d442d239-e613-46d6-abe6-4b29c9c21019@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Don't forget the guy on the sidelines who neither bought, nor sold, -
>> his local govt. decides his house is now worth a lot more because of
>> market value and taxes him accordingly. Just cuz the city THINKS my
>> house is suddenly worth a lot more doesn't put the money in my pocket,
>> but I sure get to pay the extra tax bite.
>
>And speaking of property taxes, or so-called tax reform to be more specific,
>the end result of my state's (FL) supposed tax "cut" somehow morphed into a
>tax INCREASE. One way or another, falling property values of not (Enron
>style accounting practices?) the greedy bastards always find a way to
>increase revenue.
>
>My property tax bill arrived in the mail just a few days ago. Expecting to
>see the fruits of the much-publicized tax reduction legislation (only a
>modest bill reduction, in fairness, as the assessed value of my home is
>already artificially low due to $25K homestead exemption/3% assessment
>increase cap.), I wasn't too surprised to my bill had actually gone up
>slightly. It only took a couple seconds to spot the trickery.
>
>Sure, the ad valorem portion dropped ~$80. compared to last year. But my
>city has its own fire and solid waste services, and the amount billed for
>such services shows up in the non-ad valorem portion of the tax bill. For
>about the past 20 years, the rate increase concerning that particular
>category usually fell in the 0 - 20% range. But this year's rate increase
><surprise-surprise> amounted to more than 30%, or about $120. ($526.
>compared to last year's bill of just over $400.)
>
>End result of the property tax"cut": a bill that is ~$40.00 higher than last
>year! Just the same old switcharoo/slight of hand shenanigans...
>
you need to pay attention:
1. that tax decrease package needed to be voted on before being
implemented, that vote was to take place this coming Jan.
2. some court decided that the proposed plan was not fair and ruled it
illegal, so it's gone
3. there is a new plan that will increase your SAH exemption to 50k
and makes it portable, but taxes will not be reduced as much as the
original plan, again this needs to be voted on in Jan.
you need to grasp the facts before commenting
__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 7:42 am
From: "BillGross@gmail.ca"
I started shorting financials right after watching FoxNews trot out a
subprime borrower that was
actually paying his monthly pay'ts 2 months back.
Find me a country anywhere that would tolerate Fox and the right wing
nuts running the show,
Pravda was less biased in communist days.
Like i said, socialism will never die because the conservative
factions in the USeless keep re-
inventing it every time a corporate donor needs a welfare handout.
The Fed has been reduced
to little more than a puppet show for the brokerage and banking
sectors.
As with the roman empire, america will colapse from forces within and
very shortly.
The USSR appeared to be a fortress until a few cracks brought it all
down within a month, ditto
america, the most hated, imperialistic empire in modern history.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 2:15 pm
From: "Mike M."
"jdoe" <jdoe@aol.com> wrote in message
news:p78bk3dqb8unhfdkd236bl44rae42uci5i@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:18:29 -0500, "Mike M." <steam@shovel.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>news:d442d239-e613-46d6-abe6-4b29c9c21019@y43g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Don't forget the guy on the sidelines who neither bought, nor sold, -
>>> his local govt. decides his house is now worth a lot more because of
>>> market value and taxes him accordingly. Just cuz the city THINKS my
>>> house is suddenly worth a lot more doesn't put the money in my pocket,
>>> but I sure get to pay the extra tax bite.
>>
>>And speaking of property taxes, or so-called tax reform to be more
>>specific,
>>the end result of my state's (FL) supposed tax "cut" somehow morphed into
>>a
>>tax INCREASE. One way or another, falling property values of not (Enron
>>style accounting practices?) the greedy bastards always find a way to
>>increase revenue.
>>
>>My property tax bill arrived in the mail just a few days ago. Expecting
>>to
>>see the fruits of the much-publicized tax reduction legislation (only a
>>modest bill reduction, in fairness, as the assessed value of my home is
>>already artificially low due to $25K homestead exemption/3% assessment
>>increase cap.), I wasn't too surprised to my bill had actually gone up
>>slightly. It only took a couple seconds to spot the trickery.
>>
>>Sure, the ad valorem portion dropped ~$80. compared to last year. But my
>>city has its own fire and solid waste services, and the amount billed for
>>such services shows up in the non-ad valorem portion of the tax bill. For
>>about the past 20 years, the rate increase concerning that particular
>>category usually fell in the 0 - 20% range. But this year's rate increase
>><surprise-surprise> amounted to more than 30%, or about $120. ($526.
>>compared to last year's bill of just over $400.)
>>
>>End result of the property tax"cut": a bill that is ~$40.00 higher than
>>last
>>year! Just the same old switcharoo/slight of hand shenanigans...
>>
>
> you need to pay attention:
> 1. that tax decrease package needed to be voted on before being
> implemented, that vote was to take place this coming Jan.
Actually, the take decrease package was just that - a package. The first
phase, which passed earlier this spring (don't you remember all the
legislators posing in front of the news cameras giving each other
high-fives?) provided immediate relief - or approx. $468.00 in savings to
the average FL homeowner. That portion is already in effect.
The second phase of the reduction, a complicated/smoke-and-mirrors plan tied
to median home values, which didn't even address two major issues - an
increase in homestead exemption amount (from $25K to $50K) and portability -
was to be placed on the ballot in Jan. '08 for voters to decide.
It was doomed right out of the gate, lawsuit or not. Most saw through the
smoke and mirrors, explaining why it had such little public support - pretty
much a snowball's chance in hell of passing in Jan. '08.
> you need to grasp the facts before commenting
See above. You missed the point I was trying to make.
The legislation was riddled with loopholes that local taxing authorities
could, and likely would, take full advantage of, allowing them to actually
*raise* revenue via other methods. One such loophole was just recently
described in an article in the local newspaper.
A neighboring city's residents are grumbling about a $125.00 fire protection
"surcharge" that suddenly popped up on their tax bill this year. The city -
similar to many other cities/local taxing authorities across the state - is
taking a preemptive approach, knowing revenue will soon be taking a big hit
(assuming the second phase passes, combined with declining property
values/tax assessments.)
Fortunately state legislators took the hint and went back to work
formulating a better/more realistic plan that addressed voters' concerns,
eliminated a lot of the loopholes and added the two main components voters
favored most, which earlier legislation sorely lacked. Now that package
will most definitely pass in '08.
Mike
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 2:23 pm
From: Thurston Howell IV
Actually the FED is socialistic.
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:42:12 -0800 (PST), "Bill<NOSPAM>Gross@gmail.ca"
<BuffetHater@gmail.com> wrote:
>Like i said, socialism will never die because the conservative
>factions in the USeless keep re-
>inventing it
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 12:12 pm
From: "jason.mangiafico@verizon.net"
quoting:
>
> I bet we will; it's just going to take a nother year or two, and a few
> more years before something like that is on the market and with good color
> and god color rendering and at a price at which they are not at a major
> economic disadvantage against CFLs.
Perhaps since led's are directional anyways, we could see something in
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ceramic metal halide tube and stripped-down ballast into a par38. It
can be a real challenge since the led chip is damaged at a low
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package, heat becomes big issue. It's not much different for Led's.
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a cluster because it spreads the heat out, but that hurts efficiency
because small of any bulb is less efficient. Now imagine trying to
cram the required heatsink and driver for a 10w single led that is a
60w replacement into something the size of an A-19 envelope and have
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 2:33 pm
From: Dawn
On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:48:57 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
>I just thought I'd post a note to the group to wish you all a Happy
>Thanksgiving.
>
>I've learned a lot from you all over the past decade +.
>During both lean times and good times, on my part, this group has been a
>wealth of knowledge, innovation and inspiration.
>
>Thank you all.
>
>..PC
I feel the exact same way PC.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Enjoy all the leftovers...the very
frugal part of the meal.
Dawn, geting ready to put the fruit salad together.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 22 2007 3:00 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:33:17 -0800, Dawn <linny4@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:48:57 -0500, pc <pc@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>>I just thought I'd post a note to the group to wish you all a Happy
>>Thanksgiving.
>>
>>I've learned a lot from you all over the past decade +.
>>During both lean times and good times, on my part, this group has been a
>>wealth of knowledge, innovation and inspiration.
>>
>>Thank you all.
>>
>>..PC
>I feel the exact same way PC.
>Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Enjoy all the leftovers...the very
>frugal part of the meal.
>Dawn, geting ready to put the fruit salad together.
Likewise to all. I do wish that many more of the core group members
were still around, and/or that there was a way to rejuvinate some of
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past, maybe that is an idea that could be revisited?
We'll be having home-grown winter squash today, and I just checked to
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appliances bought, and money from the Florida house converted into
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