Frugal Living: Jul 17, 2007

Tuesday, July 17, 2007

25 new messages in 18 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: dimmer switches: power savers?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e4c4948008d4c7c6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 7:20 pm
From: "Bob F"

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:469c1985$0$4716$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> Bob F wrote:
>> "val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:1184627459.090616.127090@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>> Or do they merely lessen the light output?
>
>> Using dimmers will result in less light for the power used. A low
>> wattage bulb is more efficient at producing less light.
>
> Hmm, I'd never thought of this before, but I suppose that is
> one advantage of 3-way bulbs: 3 different light levels, each
> with all filaments involved burning at full power and thus
> maximum efficiency.

And they make 3-way compact flourescents also.

Bob

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: barrack's girl
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/beb29ce64259c3a1?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 7:57 pm
From: JohnZhang

Obama girl, daaaaamn, that's hot!!!

http://www.thepollspace.com/polls.php?pollid=1832

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TOPIC: TracFone 240 min. for $50
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fbe6b5c2a6cd7b9?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 8:18 pm
From: Joe

On Jul 16, 2:38 pm, Brontide <eri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 11:12 am, A Veteran <geor...@humboldt1.com> wrote:
>
> > at Target. Now would these "expire" if I delayed 6 months in installing
> > in my "tank"?
>
> > --
> > when you believe the only tool you have is a hammer.
> > All problems look like nails.
>
> Page Plus... use any CDMA phone ( Verizon, Sprint, InPlus, ... ) rates
> between 12c-5.7c/minute recarges every 120 days
> T-Mobile to-go... GSM. Rates around 10c/minute and if you go gold...
> all refills are 1 year!
>

We've have several phones on Page Plus for a year. Buying recharge
minutes on ebay or over the phone, with low usage, the monthly cost is
phenomenally low ($10/120 days). No complaints on usage, though you
may have to "double dial" in some locations when roaming.

Some say you can do even better using TMobile prepaid. If the phone
lasts about 3.5 years, the monthly minimum is about the same, but you
have to buy a $100 (gold) card to start.

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TOPIC: Why don't the liberal whiners start a health insurance company?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/18cfba458dce8ce2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 8:30 pm
From: krw

In article <5mSmi.139$fB2.52@newsfe04.lga>, bashley101
+usenet@gmail.com says...
> krw wrote:
>
> > jesmith100@msn.com says...
> >> How about cleaning up some of the fraud in the systems?
> >>
> >> Eg how does a medical service justify this: Draw one sample of blood,
> >> run it once through one machine, which gives 4 separate readings.
> >> Whoopie. Bill for 4 tests!
>
> They used to refuse to put calls through to the patient, but pass on a
> message so they could charge the patient for the return call. I don't think
> they do that any more.

The hospital here has "free" phone and cable TV (for each bed). I
was rather surprised. It would have been fine, except the asshole in
the other bed liked to wake up and watch TV at 3:00AM.

> > Tests aren't free, even if some of the work is done at the same time
> > by the same machine.
> >
> >> Get a social security # and it's the entry to the Golden Goose
> >> Medicare Land. Not too long ago one enterprising medical care
> >> provider billed GG for 280 procedures on a person he'd never met.
> >
> > I've been billed by *many* doctors I've never met. That's the way
> > things work. They don't all come by to shake your hand first.
>
> No, all they have to do is shout from the doorway "Hey, how ya doin"? in
> order to collect their $200 (last time I noticed) for a hospital visit. If
> they actually touched the patient it would be ragarded as an extended ($400)
> visit.
>
They don't even have to do that. One eyeball on an Xray (or, or in
my case, EKG, Echo, MRI, ...) and they've got an easy $500.
...rinse, repeat.

--
Keith

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TOPIC: Woman is content living in 84-sq. ft. tiny dream home.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/911886124117ed11?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 8:56 pm
From: "Paul Maffia"

"Paul Thomas, CPA" <paulthomascpapc@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:pkRmi.24975$09.12530@bignews8.bellsouth.net...
>
> <editor@netpath.net> wrote
>> How much square footage do college students choose to pay tens of
>> thousands of dollars yearly for to live in dorms and go to college?
>
>
>> That's way large - over 20'x20'. That's far more than one student
>> at an expensive college spends a fortune for to choose to live in if
>> in a dorm.
>
>
>
>
> A point to be made, most college students have their expenses paid by mom
> &/or dad.
>
> You'd be surprised to find, I believe, that most college dorm rooms have
> more square footage than you expect.
>
> Even sailors on a sub have more total living space (although shared) than
> 84 sf.

Paul, that is true on modern Tridents. But in the old pig boats of WWII,
each sailor had a lot less than that. Even the Capt, made do with less.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 11:28 pm
From: miles

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:

> I have no mortgage, enough land to provide firewood, a good well and soon
> will be off grid. Best of all Bush doesn't rule here.

You'll join the ranks with Bush then. His house has been off grid for
many years.

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TOPIC: Onesuite phone cards and their VoIP services
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ed3fa1b085650717?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 9:03 pm
From: stephencole7@gmail.com

I'm a beta tester too of Onesuite SuiteAdvantage before they launched
it last month and I could say most of the time I am satisfied with it.
At the beginning their were lots of bugs and hiccups but eventually
they were able to fixed it and now I got around 95 percent uptime,
meaning very few connection problems. The $2.95 monthly charges for
SuiteAdvantage is very reasonable, unlimited free incoming calls and
pay as you go outgoing calls thats even cheaper than Skype.

I give Onesuite a commendation on this one.

HTH

Stephen

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 9:16 pm
From: stephencole7@gmail.com

I'm a Onesuite SuiteAdvantage beta tester before they launched their
service last month and I could say I am fairly satisfied while doing
the testing. I reported a few bugs and eventually the connection and
its service improved. Now I'm subscriber to SuiteAdvantage for $2.95
monthly fee which gives me unlimited incoming calls and I only pay for
the outgoing calls as I call and the rates are very good, even cheaper
than Skype.

Hope this helps.

Stephen

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TOPIC: MENS, WOMENS, KIDS BELOW WHOLESALE CLOTHING FROM BLOOMINGDALE'S,
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2e330b7c58a6b1dd?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 9:38 pm
From: BestBargainsEver4@gmail.com

MENS, WOMENS, KIDS BELOW WHOLESALE CLOTHING FROM BLOOMINGDALE'S,
MACY'S KOHL'S

We specialize in Off-Price name brand clothing from major Department
stores at below Wholesale prices. Choose from a wide selection of
men's clothing, women's clothing, children's clothing, mixed clothing,
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Ink, Brandini, Calvin Klein, Champion, Chaps by Ralph Lauren, Charter
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Converse, Crossing, Dickies, DKNY, Dockers, East Island, Ecko UNLTD.,
Emanuel Ungaro, Extreme Gear, Geoffrey Beene, Guess, Haggar Clothing,
Izod, Jantzer, John Ashford, Jones NY, Joseph & Lyman, Kenneth Cole,
Marsh Landing, Metropolitan View, Nike, Nautica, Oscar De La Renta,
Polo, Pendleton, Perry Ellis, Polo Sport, Russell Athletic, Reunion,
Reebok, Ralph Lauen, Speedo, Savane, Slates, SQ Wear, Tek Gear, Tommy
Bahama, Tommy Hilfiger, Unionbay, Van Heusen, Wear First,
Weatherproof, Wishpering Smith, Winners, and much more...

Womens Brands Available: A.B.S, Actionwear, Adrianne Vittadini,
Alfani, Alfred Dunner, Anne Klein, August Silk, BCBG, Bill Blass,
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Klein, Carole Anderson, Chaiken, Charter Club, City DKNY, Clio,
Company by Ellen Tracy, Dana Buchman, David Dart, Democracy, Diane von
Furstenberg, DKNY, Due-Per-Due, Eileen Fisher, Ellen Tracy, Emanuel,
Finity Natural, Finity Studio, French Connection, Gianni, Hot Cotton,
I.N.C., Jeanne Pierre, Jennifer Moore, Joan Vass, Jones New York,
Joseph A., Karen Kane, Kasper, Katayone Adeli, Kenneth Cole, Koret,
Laundry, Lauren by Ralph Lauren, Le Suit, M.A.G., Marc Jacobs, Max
Studio, Michael Kors, Michael Stars, Nautica, Nicole Miller, Nina
Leonard, Nine West, Norton, Notations, Parallel, Paul & Joe, Pierre
Cardin, Plenty, Polo, Ralph Lauren, Ralph Lauren Black Label, Rebecca
Taylor, Rena Rowan, Sag Harbor, Sigrid Olsen, Studio Sport, Style &
Co, Tahari, Tamotsu, Thalian, Theory, Tocca, Tommy Hilfiger, Uniform
and much more...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: a point about China's problems
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c328870180227d9a?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 9:43 pm
From: PaPaPeng

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:57:23 -0700, "D." <djensen36@cox.net> wrote:

>I would suggest anyone interested in this topic read the personal
>views of this food reporter, who loves China, the Chinese people, and
>Chinese food. Perhaps the problems are more widespread that PaPaPeng
>would lead us to believe,
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6897844.stm
>
>D.

Must be a slow summer. There's a lot of self induced hysteria over
Made in China product safety in the States. It hardly comes up as a
news item here in the Great White North. Probably there is a pinko
commie conspiracy to poison Americans or at least drive them up the
wall.

I live in Canada and hardly ever use China made food products or
personal hygiene products. Shopping and cooking the regular grocery
store stuff is so much more convenient. If I want authentic Chinese
cusine I go to a Chinese restaurant. You don't want to make that from
scratch. Its too ridiculously difficult to get it right. I dine out
there maybe once to four times a fortnight. They'd have a hard time
poisoning me if they tried.

I am frugal but not that hard-up as to shop at the Dollar Store for
personal hygiene products. The savings if any are not enough to make
a difference. Shopping for me is a very quick and predictable affair
and I have stuck to the same core products (non Chinese) for several
decades now. Old habits and old tastes die hard.

I love all the other Dollar Store knickknacks though. They're cheap
enough to use and to experiment with anything new. If its crap just
toss it. It is never worth the expense in time and a trip for a
refund. I enjoy expermenting with new stuff until I find something
that works for me and may stick to it. There isn't very much that is
new that I need to changes my preferences for. This is no brainer
ordinary. common sense. I presume all of you consider yourselves in
this category.

If I as a honest to goodness sinophile Chinaman have so little
interaction with Made in China products the chances are your
encounters with Made in China products with safety concerns is
practically nil. To save a lot of argument why not just make it
absolutely nil. Your lives will be so much more worry free.

With regard to that BBC story its an insipid story to cash in on the
current hysteria. No one is twisting anybody's arm to eat in Chinese
food establishments. If anyone believes it has hygiene problems just
walk away. Even a lame brain knows enough to do that for any
establishment whatever its origin. But there is a point I am in
total agreement with. I am against the use of exotic animals for
luxury dining. There is absolutely no need to use non farm produced
animals for food.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 2:45 am
From: Jon v Leipzig

D. wrote in part:

> We are still at the tip of the iceberg as far as
> new revelations go about Chinese tainted products and quality
> problems.

For some reasons, the serious problems elsewhere never make it to the
mainstream "news" in the US. In Europe (don't recall exactly which
countries) they found counterfeit birth control pills and fake blood
protein from China. Think that incident in Panama with the fake
glycerine mixed into cold meds happened last year. Just recently heard
mention of this. Supposedly about 50 deaths were attributed to this,
just in Panama.

Y'ad think maybe the importer or cold med mfgr would test this stuff
before buying 50-gallon drums of it. ??

Also, the incidents occurring within China rarely make it to the Western
media, such as the fake powdered milk disaster. This product was also
exported to India. so who knows how many babies died in both countries.

>> when you go out for a burger, you're not getting any cardboard in your meat.

Imo, cardboard might be a good source of non-nutritive fiber, probably
less contaminated than the meat.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 2:53 am
From: Jon v Leipzig

max wrote in part:

> The Chinese should improve their product safety and quality, and we will be
> fools if we think that won't happen, and bigger fools if we don't forsee the
> long range consequences to our balance of trade.
>

I wish they'd hurry. I have an ever-expanding list of cheap, defective
crap from Slavemart. The novelty of having a Walmart fairly close to
town is wearing off quickly. Maybe can't blame the Chinese, it's
Walmart that demands cheap, Grade C junque.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Breast-Feeding: Private Act or Public Right?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d9ae679497789a49?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 9:46 pm
From: "Wilson"

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=3378982&page=1

Breast-Feeding: Private Act or Public Right?

It is an act millions of new moms do everyday. But when it comes to
breast-feeding, some argue there is a time and a place for it.

The topic is a provocative one for parents and even those without children.
I think it's perfectly natural and decent," one woman said.

Another man agreed.

"It doesn't bother me," he said. "It's none of my business, to tell you the
truth."

But not everyone was on board for breast-feeding.

"It's something that should be kept behind closed doors," one man said.

Another woman said she found it disgusting and immoral to breast-feed in
public.

"We have a lot of ambivalent feelings about breasts being used to feed
because we see them as sexual objects," said ABC News parenting contributor
Ann Pleshette Murphy.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 11:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Wilson <wilson@universal.com> wrote

> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=3378982&page=1

> Breast-Feeding: Private Act or Public Right?

> It is an act millions of new moms do everyday.

So is fucking and picking your nose and taking a crap.

> But when it comes to breast-feeding, some argue there is a time and a place for it.

Everyone does, actually.

There's no one actually stupid enough to claim that an
airline pilot should be doing that when landing a plane etc.

> The topic is a provocative one for parents and even those without
> children. I think it's perfectly natural and decent," one woman said.

> Another man agreed.

> "It doesn't bother me," he said. "It's none of my business, to tell you the truth."

> But not everyone was on board for breast-feeding.

> "It's something that should be kept behind closed doors," one man said.

> Another woman said she found it disgusting and immoral to breast-feed in public.

> "We have a lot of ambivalent feelings about breasts being used to feed because we see them as
> sexual objects," said ABC News parenting contributor Ann Pleshette Murphy.

Have fun explaining why almost everyone feels that there is a time
and place for picking your nose, taking a crap, farting, etc etc etc.

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TOPIC: aqp Dale Warfel: Cat Killer, 3 time Fired Engineer, and Failed Real
Estate Agent now spams Usenet, what next!? ueb
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/50fc1c1fc3965289?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 9:45 pm
From: Anonymous Sender

c h oi2q ufi2 uifh oiwhufic9ie uq ewc 21u9eh 98i2q98fivj slxh
u9ifjd9ifjcfuihqew8oidcnjhjqu9ivhisoxhjc 983uywirjc qoiashd 98 3qwosfl

*** Failed Real Estate Agent who made only 1 sale last year is about
to host a Million-"air" seminar, how laughable. This guy is broke
and about penniless, and he is about to try to tell you how to "make
a million." If he knew how, he would have already done it; just
another of his scams to try to get your money out of your pocket and
into his. ***

DO NOT USE DALE WARFEL OR KELLER WILLIAMS AS YOUR REAL ESTATE AGENT!:

ADDENDUM TO THESE INFORMATIVE POSTINGS ABOUT CROOKED CAT KILLING
REALTORS: DALE WARFEL AND MIMI WARFEL

One will see in Google searches and postings elsewhere, regarding
DALE WARFEL and MIMI WARFEL, matter with the following and other web
addresses: "prweb.com," "openpr.com," "blogspot.com," "prleap.com,"
"clickpress.com," "express-press-release.com," "pr.com," "free-news-
release.com," "free-press-prelease.com," etc.: all of these web
addresses represent free self-posted promotional material. In other
words, when these web addresses are seen with respect to either of
the two odious people mentioned above, they are nothing more that
self-posted free advertising by them.
On investigation of his company, the very crooked KELLER WILLIAMS
ASSOCIATES, it has been discovered that together, DALE WARFEL and
MIMI WARFEL made only one sale for the entire year of 2005 and have
made no sales thus far this year. Clearly, the word is getting out
about these two miscreants; do not patronize them and do not
patronize their company. If you are doing business with them now,
cancel it and find yourself another agent who is honest and does not
kill and torture helpless animals for his and her selfish and
fiendish pleasure.
DALE WARFEL and MIMI WARFEL are bad people, avoid them and tell your
friends to avoid them.

It has been discovered that Dale Warfel, aka Dale Allen Warfel, has
a criminal history regarding firearms violations in Santa Clara
County, California and that he has misdemeanor violations for cruelty
to animals and for the intentional killing of deer and other
wildlife; it is indicated that he has spent time in jail for the
killing of wildlife.

A local investigator has reported, upon the questioning of his
neighbors in the neighborhood where he was reared as a child, that as
a child Mr. Warfel would routinely shoot and kill cats in his yard
with his 12-gage shotgun, and that he delighted in doing so.

Dale Warfel is employed on a part time basis by KELLER WILLIAMS
REALTY. IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT YOU BOYCOTT THIS COMPANY AND THAT YOU
DO NOT PATRONIZE THEM WHILE HE IS IN THEIR EMPLOY.

CONTACT AND INFORMATION FOR DALE WARFEL:
Home Address: 311 Bodega Way, San Jose, California 95119.
Mailing Address: P.O. Box 53391, San Jose, California 95123
Currently works out of the Great Oaks Keller Williams Branch near
his home.

Home Phone: (408) 629-0290.
Cell Phone: (408) 624-6202.
Email Addresses:
dale@dalewarfel.com
dwafel@hotmail.com
dwarfel@kwsv.com
dwarfel@quixnet.net

Social Security Number: 572-45-0086
DOB: 11-9-61

John Stoddard Botanini, Private Investigator
Torino, Italy

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9832y 9ezofdv 98ewjs 9idvch 9iev98uq098wrt 98whdcuh3 98wry
t982uwufidv9iwqadsu98fy3298wjds 98f

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FREE ONLINE DATING AND Hooking UP NOW!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6c3ad6c96fa2fbb0?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 10:12 pm
From: bort

FREE ONLINE DATING AND Hooking UP NOW!

GOTO: www.Shop4Love.com

Great place to find someone or post a FREE ad! It worked for me....

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Danielle Lloyd Shows A Little Skin http://www.teenwag.com/go/8133
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/010ab241d602f12d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 10:36 pm
From: golden gate

Danielle Lloyd Shows A Little Skin
http://www.teenwag.com/go/8133

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Confused About Mobile Phone Plans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/77c9e041d54a37c2?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 11:07 pm
From: Five By Five <5x5@5x5.com>

I am trying to find the best mobile (cellular) phone or wireless solution.

My blood relatives are within a 200 mile (360 km) radius, and I live less
than 2 miles from my job site.

My wife and daughter however are overseas, about 11,000 miles (17,000 km)
away. I want to be able to dial from my mobile to either a mobile or
landline to the target country.

What bothers me is the widely varying per-minute rates on calls to the
country from the United States (note: I don't want international
roaming...I don't care if my phone works when I travel to that
country...and it probably won't anyway, even with the promise of carriers)

Consider:

Recommended to me was a carrier called Metro PCS, which wants $0.05/min
from my mobile to any landline in the target country, and $0.24/min mobile-
to-mobile. I don't know what individual plan I want.

T-Mobile, whose Get More 1000 Plus Promotional seems a fit for me, wants
$0.69 / minute to the target country.

Verizon wants $1.49/min under their "Standard International Dialing" but
$0.35/min if one pays $4 fixed a month under the "International LD Value
Plan."

I talked to a girl at customer service from Sprint-Nextel whose English
could have used a lot of improvement and who sounded like she was talking
from a can strung to a wire (can it be heard in New Dehli?), and she told
me at first that the rate was 2.49 / minute WITH a per month flat $4
international calling option, and $4.19/minute WITHOUT the plan. I could
hardly believe what I heard, then went to the website and found out she did
not know what she was talking about: there is a $4 fixed month to join an
international special plan, which costs $0.34/min with the plan (add
$0.12/min if made to a mobile) and $1.99/min without the plan ("standard").

I have not yet checked AT&T/Cingular yet.

The MetroPCS rates look quite attractive to me.

But as with anything: what's the catch?

I know that MetroPCS is some kind of pre-pay rather than post-pay system---
still don't know how it works.

I am guessing that MetroPCS has lower rates, and a no-contract system
because of what? Poor coverage? Poor voice quality because they use the
Internet (packet-switched networks) instead of dedicated circuits (PSTN)?

Someone please tell me why wireless companies vary so much in terms of
plans and prices and quality.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 4:19 am
From: "Don K"

"Five By Five" <5x5@5x5.com> wrote in message
news:Xns996FEB50DB30F5x55x5@207.115.33.102...

> Someone please tell me why wireless companies vary so much in terms of
> plans and prices and quality.

Deliberate obfuscation.

When AT&T had a land-line monopoly, they would never give you their
various phone plans and rates written down on paper. They would rattle
them off over the phone, but they would never write them down for you.

Now with computer billing, phone companies can easily itemize charges that
vary by when, who, where, and how, knowing that most consumers won't
be able to decipher the total pricing structure to do meaningful comparisons.
They just quote the most attractive price per minute number, without working
thru the details of how different rates kick in to vary the total cost.

But that's what you have to do. Make a spreadsheet of how you are going
to use your phone. Vary the number of minutes per month from 1 to N
for each category of usage (local, mobile-to-mobile, international, etc).

Then calculate and plot the total cost vs. minutes for each plan and choose
the one that will best fit your usage.

You have to do this for yourself, because all the plans kick in different rates at
different points.

Don

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No more car rental costs!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bec8c0f7242bac80?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 12:56 am
From: Arsenal

A new website has been launched to offer a credible alternative to
renting cars for holiday or business purposes. The site at http://www.pairngo.com
is a community website dedicated to connecting members from around the
world who are prepared to swap (pair) their cars for leisure or
business trips.

Insurance is not as big a problem as it might first appear as many
companies will add an additional driver to a policy at no extra cost.
Where this cannot be done there are a number of companies offering
very competitive short-term insurance who will insure for swapping
purposes. The cost of the additional insurance is generally a
fraction of the car rental costs. Members only agree to final pairing
when insurance details have been agreed and exchanged via letter, fax
or scanned and attached to an email.

Pairngo.com offers a unique service to community members who will save
themselves a lot of money each year by not having to pay for car
rental.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 3:51 am
From: clams casino

Arsenal wrote:

>A new website has been launched
>

and just how many on this newsgroup will be renting cars from ireland?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: pLEASE READ THIS CALL
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/88a4cdd029da83e2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 2:06 am
From: TALLMAN

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:: Please read this call ::

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sweat as a frugal substitute for shaving lather
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c6cb177ce66d6b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 2:58 am
From: Jon v Leipzig

Auntielle wrote:
> On Jul 13, 2:56 pm, "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote:
>> "Bob F" <bobnos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:6fmdnVp6x_UkNArbnZ2dnUVZ_v6tnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>> "Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in message
>>> news:0fCdnRM3mo0xewvbnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> It works! Hot slimy sweat is slippery enough to lubricate the skin and soften
>>>> the beard just about as well as shaving cream!
>>> Any bar soap works fine.
>> Maybe, but you have to go out and buy soap. Sweat is free.
>>
>> Don
>
> Sweat may be free, but is also full of toxins. When you shave,
> depending on the condition of the blade, you sometimes make
> microscopic cuts in the skin. If your skin is sweaty, you are
> introducing those toxins right into those microscopic cuts.
> A swipe or two of bar soap does cost a few cents, but there is
> something to be said for personal hygiene.

Good point, thanx. I was about to suggest (to bypass working up a
sweat) using warm freshly-brewed urine.....

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where to buy cables
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2c33d0f4b582a49f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 3:07 am
From: Jon v Leipzig

kramer31 wrote:
> Thanks for the ideas, everyone. We live in Portland, OR.
>
> I did some poking around here and found this cool store:
>
> http://www.freegeek.org/
>
> It looks like a Goodwill for computer parts!
>

Try the Bizzness phone book...under Cable. I found a cable outlet I
didn't know existed.

Was going to mention Big Lots, but now I'd say NO. Got sticker shock at
Best Buy for a 6-foot USB ext cable. $30 price tag, but it had
gold-plated ends (Wow!). Found a travel kit at Big Lots with a 3 and
6ft usb cables, for $7. Two weeks later, the 6-footer is now
unrecognized, possibly defective, my puter tells me.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How can I safely buy from a private party online???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3111f57b5bc48c8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 17 2007 3:23 am
From: Jon v Leipzig

sandy wrote:
> I posted a "Want to Buy" ad on our local Craigslist and got an Email
> from someone in another state who had what I was looking for. It was
> a little older than what I might want but the price was reasonable and
> I'd like to buy it. (He's agreeable to sending it). Is there anyway
> to make sure this isn't a scam and to transfer money safely??? He
> sounds OK and has sent me pictures of the item. Price is just over
> $300.
>
> Any suggestions???

Oh, please.....he "sounded ok"........what's he gonna say..."I just got
out of prison, I need some dope money.."???

The pic doesn't prove it's in working order.....oh, I know....he claimed
it was lightly used.

I almost got fooled on eBay some yrs ago. Seller had pix of genuine Sony
Trinitron monitors. I just bought a pc from a former Dell certified
tech in Texas. Asked him to look at the monitors. He spotted the
trickery immediately....they were cheap Phillips, not Sony.

Don't do it. Wait for one close to your town on Craigslist.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

17 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal pre-paid funeral expenses?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ce3b2b4cec57072f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 4:01 pm
From: Steve

>>> Hello. I'd like to get some advice about trying to set up something
>>> that will pre-pay my funeral/burial costs. I'm going to be checking
>>> out here at the end of the fall of this year. When my grandmother
>>> died, her expenses ended up being around $9,000 in total for
>>> everything (casket, transport, burial, etc).

If you know someone's dying and they don't have a prepaid plan, need
to act quick. The costs can double or triple depending on whether you
get the thing paid for before or after death. It can literally be a
matter of minutes, checked against the time posted on the death
certificate. I know some folks who found out the hard way...

The government is unresponsive to the needs of the little man.
Under 5'7" it is impossible to get your congressman on the phone.

...Woody Allen

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 4:15 pm
From: Zilbandy

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:51:55 -0700, bb90125@yahoo.com wrote:

>I've got around $2,000 right now saved,

You've probably got more than enough for a prepaid cremation plan.

--
Zilbandy

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 4:10 pm
From: val189

Or do they merely lessen the light output?

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 4:18 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

val189 <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Or do they merely lessen the light output?

They do both.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 4:30 pm
From: New Leaf

On Jul 16, 4:10 pm, val189 <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Or do they merely lessen the light output?

Val, I think your idea of scheduling bulb cleaning is one of the most
effective ways to save on electricity for lighting. A clean 60W gives
as much light as a dusty 100W, especially if it's in an enclosed light
fixture that you've also cleaned.

Viv

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 4:44 pm
From: "Don K"

"New Leaf" <nootka@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:1184628610.620312.62280@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 16, 4:10 pm, val189 <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> Or do they merely lessen the light output?
>
> Val, I think your idea of scheduling bulb cleaning is one of the most
> effective ways to save on electricity for lighting. A clean 60W gives
> as much light as a dusty 100W, especially if it's in an enclosed light
> fixture that you've also cleaned.
>
> Viv

Is that something you measured or did the 60W/100W relationship come
to you as some sort of revelation?

Will a slightly dusty 75W give off less light as a dusty 100W but
more than a clean 60W?
:)

Don

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 4:54 pm
From: "Bob F"

"val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1184627459.090616.127090@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Or do they merely lessen the light output?
>

Using dimmers will result in less light for the power used. A low
wattage bulb is more efficient at producing less light.

Bob

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 6:21 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Bob F wrote:
> "val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:1184627459.090616.127090@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>> Or do they merely lessen the light output?

> Using dimmers will result in less light for the power used. A low
> wattage bulb is more efficient at producing less light.

Hmm, I'd never thought of this before, but I suppose that is
one advantage of 3-way bulbs: 3 different light levels, each
with all filaments involved burning at full power and thus
maximum efficiency.

- Logan

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 6:28 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> Bob F wrote:
>> "val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:1184627459.090616.127090@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>>> Or do they merely lessen the light output?
>
>> Using dimmers will result in less light for the power used. A low
>> wattage bulb is more efficient at producing less light.
>
> Hmm, I'd never thought of this before, but I suppose that is
> one advantage of 3-way bulbs: 3 different light levels, each
> with all filaments involved burning at full power and thus
> maximum efficiency.

Yep, except that the full on format isnt as efficient as just one filament of that power.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Maroon 5 - It Won`t Be Soon Before Long Free Download
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cc99745f91da2097?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 5:11 pm
From: Kauser Khan

Download Maroon 5 - It Won`t Be Soon Before Long Full album from
www.super3gp.com in mp3 format. amazing website for Music

Album tracks
If I Never See Your Face Again
Makes Me Wonder
Little of Your Time
Wake Up Call
Won't Go Home Without You
Nothing Lasts Forever
Can't Stop
Goodnight Goodnight
Not Falling Apart
Kiwi
Better That We Break
Back At Your Door

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 5:29 pm
From: timeOday

Him wrote:
> That comes out to 20.x cents per minute. Virgin Mobil starts their per
> minute price at 18 cents. You can also get a free phone on line and I think
> the service is better, complete online tracking of the account and
> monitoring of use. I switched about 6 months ago.
>

Do you get the phone for free, or do you have to file for a rebate?
I've been after amp'd for my $100 rebate for about 5 months and I now
think I probably will not get it.

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 5:31 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

"jes" <jesmith100@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1184614681.976324.33020@g37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>> > Tests aren't free, even if some of the work is done at the same time
>> > by the same machine.
>>
>> And the machine that tests for 4 things obviously
>> costs more than a machine that tests for just one.
>
> How do you know they only mfr. machines which run 4 tests?????
> Wouldn't cost any more, would it?

Whether it costs the hospital more isn't the issue. The patient is getting 4
results so he should pay for 4 results.

People carpool in order to save themselves commuting costs too. Is it fraud
if they don't volunteer for a paycut to pass those savings on their
employer?

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 5:34 pm
From: "Sylvester Sweetmeat"

"not the moderator" <lavenderlouie@AZGOV.com/us> wrote in message
news:coGmi.282993$Fk2.45107@newsfe08.phx...
> editor@netpath.net wrote:
>> On Jul 15, 5:29 pm, Useful Info <useful_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Electricity from solar.
>>> Propane from a small container.
>>> $10k for the entire house.
>>> No mortgage...
>>
>> It's very possible. After all, lots of Americans - especially men
>> - for generations have CHOSEN to live for days at a time in small
>> hunting cabins, fishing cabins, po-up vacation trailers, etc.
>>
>> No $4 to park! No $6 admission!

http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
>>
> Lots of criminals live in 8x10 ft. cells and survive quite well. They have
> a sink and commode, a nice bed to entertain their "buddy", and have meals
> prepared for them. The cells are climate controlled and they go out to
> eat. The taxpayer picks up the bill. Unfortunately, the cells aren't
> mobile, and they aren't allowed to have campfires or pets.

Man, learn what you be talkin' about before you talk. Every brother got a
ton a roaches all to his self.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 5:31 pm
From: miles

Paul Thomas, CPA wrote:
>
> Even sailors on a sub have more total living space (although shared) than 84
> sf.

The 84sf figure is misleading. She has a loft bedroom that does not
take up any of the 84sf except for the ladder. Still, pretty tiny house!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Visa and MC: No Charge Is Too Small
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/09a236ad49955ac8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 5:40 pm
From: Jim Prescott

In article <MPG.2104b94fc2e4e9eb989c1a@nntp.aioe.org>,
Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG <Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
>In article <f7155h$htn@harn.ceas.rochester.edu>,
>jgp@seas.rochester.edu says...
>> That isn't quite correct. The merchant agreement is between the
>> merchant and the merchant's bank. But you the consumer also have a
>> contract with the bank you got your card from. Ease of use is one of
>> the big features Visa & MC pitch and it is the reason behind many of
>> the acceptance rules merchants would like to ignore. You have a right
>> to complain to your bank about such merchants and to expect them to do
>> something about it.
>...
>Are you suggesting that the Cardholder Agreement includes
>language that obligates customers to refuse to do business with a
>merchant who violates the minimum transaction prohibition? Or to
>report that merchant?

No. I'm suggesting that Visa has spent a great deal of time and money
establishing what a "Visa card" is. When I get a Visa card from my bank
I have an expectation of how it can be used based on Visa's advertising
and the rules they publish. If the reality of the card not only differs
from those expectations, but is outright contrary to them, then I have
reason to complain.

Granted there is no recourse here beyond cancelling the card. But the
banks shouldn't be blowing off consumer complaints on this, they should
be passed up the chain. The banks that are trying to sell Visa cards
have a vested interest in having Visa accurately describe their product,
whether it be by enforcing existing rules or by changing those rules.

>> There is also an aspect of false and misleading advertising here since
>> merchants will typically display the CC logo prominently on the door
>> and in advertising and it's not til you get to the register that you
>> learn that when they said "Visa" they weren't using the word the same
>> way that Visa does (and insists that the merchant must). In this
>> instance you are a party to the violation and would have standing for
>> prosecution.
>...
>The merchant processing contract doesn't say anything about a
>customer/cardholder being held responsible for tolerating
>violations like minimums, surcharges, etc.

I wasn't talking about the merchant contract here, but about potentially
criminal false and misleading advertising. The merchant advertises that
they accept Visa and the consumer takes that into account when choosing
the merchant. After spending time, and possibly incurring a bill, the
consumer finds that the merchant does not in fact accept Visa, at least
not in the way generally understood and promoted by Visa.

The consumer has been directly harmed by the merchant. Whether this
harm rises to the criminal level would depend on the specific laws in
place and the specifics of the event. The merchant agreement isn't
directly relevant although the fact that the merchant had signed a
contract that prohibited certain behavior might be a factor in deciding
whether a "reasonable person" should have anticipated such behavior.
--
Jim Prescott - Computing and Networking Group jgp@seas.rochester.edu
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, University of Rochester, NY

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 6:26 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jim Prescott <jgp@seas.rochester.edu> wrote
> Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG <Usenet2007@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote:
>> In article <f7155h$htn@harn.ceas.rochester.edu>,
>> jgp@seas.rochester.edu says...
>>> That isn't quite correct. The merchant agreement is between the
>>> merchant and the merchant's bank. But you the consumer also have a
>>> contract with the bank you got your card from. Ease of use is one
>>> of the big features Visa & MC pitch and it is the reason behind
>>> many of the acceptance rules merchants would like to ignore. You
>>> have a right to complain to your bank about such merchants and to
>>> expect them to do something about it.
>> ...
>> Are you suggesting that the Cardholder Agreement includes
>> language that obligates customers to refuse to do business with a
>> merchant who violates the minimum transaction prohibition? Or to
>> report that merchant?
>
> No. I'm suggesting that Visa has spent a great deal of time and money
> establishing what a "Visa card" is. When I get a Visa card from my
> bank I have an expectation of how it can be used based on Visa's
> advertising and the rules they publish. If the reality of the card
> not only differs from those expectations, but is outright contrary to
> them, then I have reason to complain.
>
> Granted there is no recourse here beyond cancelling the card. But the
> banks shouldn't be blowing off consumer complaints on this, they
> should be passed up the chain. The banks that are trying to sell
> Visa cards have a vested interest in having Visa accurately describe
> their product, whether it be by enforcing existing rules or by
> changing those rules.

Or they have enough of a clue to realise that its never going to be
feasible to enforce the most stupid rules and that the current approach
does bluff the most stupid merchants, so its better than changing them.

>>> There is also an aspect of false and misleading advertising here
>>> since merchants will typically display the CC logo prominently on
>>> the door and in advertising and it's not til you get to the
>>> register that you learn that when they said "Visa" they weren't
>>> using the word the same way that Visa does (and insists that the
>>> merchant must). In this instance you are a party to the violation
>>> and would have standing for prosecution.
>> ...
>> The merchant processing contract doesn't say anything about a
>> customer/cardholder being held responsible for tolerating
>> violations like minimums, surcharges, etc.

> I wasn't talking about the merchant contract here, but
> about potentially criminal false and misleading advertising.

Its nothing like criminal.

> The merchant advertises that they accept Visa and the consumer
> takes that into account when choosing the merchant.

And anyone with a clue realises that some merchants flout the
silliest rules with impunity and that they get to like that or lump it.

> After spending time, and possibly incurring a bill, the consumer
> finds that the merchant does not in fact accept Visa, at least
> not in the way generally understood and promoted by Visa.

Then they get to like that or lump it or not use that merchant again.

> The consumer has been directly harmed by the merchant.

They still get to like that or lump it or not use that merchant again.

> Whether this harm rises to the criminal level would depend
> on the specific laws in place and the specifics of the event.

Nope, its never going to be a criminal offence.

> The merchant agreement isn't directly relevant although the
> fact that the merchant had signed a contract that prohibited
> certain behavior might be a factor in deciding whether a
> "reasonable person" should have anticipated such behavior.

And the reality is that they get to like that or lump it or not use that merchant again.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Instantly Turn your Computer into a Super TV

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7dda214d6208c036?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 16 2007 6:20 pm
From: George Grapman

The only contact info on the site is an email form. I asked for
minor details such as a physical address and phone number and the
reply was the spam they posted here,word for word.