http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Home heating oil price? - 13 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
* What minor frugal change did you make this year? - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
* Gov't to big 3 seeking bailout: no more private jets for you! - 3 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b69b9f5b3b347b9?hl=en
* MERRY YULE W.A.S.Ps! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1bd5257a7dd9ea3f?hl=en
* Screaming babies and cramped seats next to people dripping snot for CEOs in
the future? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ea4291164eb6ae2?hl=en
* Crybaby judge who lost his job over his nonsense loses appeal for 54milion
dollar suit over pants - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ea4fd1a87b41133e?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home heating oil price?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/25ab6d7a439ac7f1?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 1:49 pm
From: Neon John
On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:25:01 -0800 (PST), tmclone@searchmachine.com wrote:
>Whatever. I pay $4800 taxes on a house assessed at $120k. I pay $6000
>income taxes on an income of $20k. It all seems obscenely high to me.
Holy sh*t! My 1000 sq ft cabin is appraised at $60,000 which is far too high
but this is a fishing resort. Anwhere else it would run in the $35 to $40k
range. Anyway, my property tax last year was $947.40. No state income tax.
I don't see how you exist in NY, much less live. I'm disabled (but not
"drawing") and my combined income this year will be under $10k, yet I can live
like a king. Well, if not a king, at least like I want to.
Here's a table of TN property taxes by county and city. Something to cry over
:-)
http://www.comptroller1.state.tn.us/PAnew/LR.asp?W=07
JOhn
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com <-- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Sporadic E is the Earth's aluminum foil beanie for the 'global warming' sheep.
== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 1:54 pm
From: Ann
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:03:33 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:
> Larry Caldwell wrote:
>
>> In article <F3W2l.49847$5P1.26231@newsfe13.iad>,
>> PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com (clams_casino) says...
>>> Ann wrote:
>>
>>> >FICA is not "income tax". It's your payment into a
>>> >retirement/disability/etc fund, which you probably will get back in
>>> >the future. And you'd pay that no matter what state you lived in.
>>
>>> Since when? Even the federal government refers to it as a payroll
>>> tax where they publish "tax rate" tables.
>>
>> It's a payroll tax, only assessed against earned income. All other
>> income is exempt. For example, you don't pay FICA on interest, dividends
>> or rental income. For now. The system is going broke, so they have the
>> choice of reducing benefits, raising the rate, or broadening the tax
>> base. I'm betting they broaden the tax base, and make all income
>> subject to FICA.
>
> We have some supposedly tax-exempt bonds. You have to include your
> tax-exempt income on the 1040 now, and it makes a difference in whether or
> not and how much of your Social Security income is taxable. Doesn't sound
> like "tax exempt" to me.
Tax-exempt income sometimes is counted when determining income level. My
state has a simple flat rate income tax. But there is an associated
lower-income tax-forgiveness program that depends on "total" income level
and number of children. Non-taxable income isn't taxed, but it is added to
the taxable income to determine "total" income.
> The bastards will ALWAYS cheat. Whatever they call it, if they can
> ultimately throw you in jail if you don't pay it it's a tax.
Your SS income is being taxed; not your bond interest. Whoever sold you
the bonds should have mentioned that there could be tax implications.
== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 2:05 pm
From: Ann
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 13:33:01 -0800, Larry Caldwell wrote:
> In article <nmopk4dneqooep3lg3b3om4pcl0opkag70@4ax.com>, anarch@
> 666yes.net (Napoleon) says...
>
>> Oh no, they are going to raise the age you can collect SS. Everyone
>> knows that. See, it'll stay the same age until the baby boomers retire
>> and then whoop- up to 77-80 for us Xers. I can't believe people even
>> believe they will live to that retirement age, let alone in good health
>> to enjoy their SS savings in their "golden years."
>
> That's pretty well covered under "reducing benefits". However, the
> boomers are not exempt. There is no way the system can provide benefits
> for them under current levels. You are right about raising the retirement
> age. Current age for full retirement is 66 years 4 months, and I think it
> is scheduled to go to 70 or 72 over the next decade as more boomers
> retire. That won't be enough.
The *retirement* part of SS, with no changes to the current legislation,
is projected to be "solvent" until 2041 ... at which point benefits would
have to be reduced.
== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 3:05 pm
From: Brian Elfert
Larry Caldwell <firstnamelastinitial@peaksky.com> writes:
>7.5%. And of course, the self-employed have access to hundreds of tax
>breaks not available to wage earner. Anything sheltered by the business
>is not taxable at all. The tax code is written to give businesses a
>free ride.
Hmm, I must have missed that free ride when I ran a business. I paid
taxes just like any other American.
Now, A LOT of small business owners cheat on their taxes. The biggest
thing I see is personal use of business vehicles. You're supposed to note
the percentage the vehicle is used personally and not deduct that portion,
but a lot just use the vehicle for personal too and deduct everything.
A lot of small business owners will pay personal expenses through the
business to get the deduction. Big things like non-business computers and
personal insurance along with lots of small things like postage and office
supplies for personal use.
== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 3:09 pm
From: Jim
Larry Caldwell wrote:
> Jim wrote:
> says...
>
> > very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed
> > do indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.
>
> 7.5%. And of course, the self-employed have access to hundreds of tax
> breaks not available to wage earner. Anything sheltered by the business
> is not taxable at all. The tax code is written to give businesses a
> free ride.
>
> It sounds like you guys are screwing yourselves blind. Talk to a good
> tax accountant. Really. Get organized, and you get to keep your money.
>
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98846,00.html
"SE tax rate. The self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists
of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability
insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance)."
== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:47 pm
From: clams_casino
Jim wrote:
>Larry Caldwell wrote:
>
>
>
>>Jim wrote:
>>says...
>>
>>
>>
>>>very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed
>>>do indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.
>>>
>>>
>>7.5%. And of course, the self-employed have access to hundreds of tax
>>breaks not available to wage earner. Anything sheltered by the business
>>is not taxable at all. The tax code is written to give businesses a
>>free ride.
>>
>>It sounds like you guys are screwing yourselves blind. Talk to a good
>>tax accountant. Really. Get organized, and you get to keep your money.
>>
>>
>>
>
>http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98846,00.html
>
>"SE tax rate. The self-employment tax rate is 15.3%. The rate consists
>of two parts: 12.4% for social security (old-age, survivors, and disability
>insurance) and 2.9% for Medicare (hospital insurance)."
>
>
But the total rate is 7.6% (after tax income) higher than a regular (non
self employed) worker.
== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:53 pm
From: clams_casino
Neon John wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:25:01 -0800 (PST), tmclone@searchmachine.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Whatever. I pay $4800 taxes on a house assessed at $120k. I pay $6000
>>income taxes on an income of $20k. It all seems obscenely high to me.
>>
>>
>
>Holy sh*t! My 1000 sq ft cabin is appraised at $60,000 which is far too high
>but this is a fishing resort. Anwhere else it would run in the $35 to $40k
>range. Anyway, my property tax last year was $947.40. No state income tax.
>
>I don't see how you exist in NY, much less live. I'm disabled (but not
>"drawing") and my combined income this year will be under $10k, yet I can live
>like a king. Well, if not a king, at least like I want to.
>
>Here's a table of TN property taxes by county and city. Something to cry over
>:-)
>
>http://www.comptroller1.state.tn.us/PAnew/LR.asp?W=07
>
>
>
I lived in TN - the 9.75% sales tax on most everything essentially made
up for an income tax, although the property taxes were agreeably
reasonable, assuming one was not concerned about having children in a
typical TN school system.
On the other hand, the property taxes were artificially low due to all
the added fees for garbage pickup, library usage, no fire department,
etc. I was even paying a double water bill simply because I was in the
county, plus fire insurance was fairly high due to not having a fire
department. Yes, the property taxes are relatively low in TN, but
certainly not as low as they might first appear.
== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 5:27 pm
From: Dave Garland
Ann wrote:
> The *retirement* part of SS, with no changes to the current legislation,
> is projected to be "solvent" until 2041 ... at which point benefits would
> have to be reduced.
And if they switch to charging tax on all income, instead of limiting
it to just the first $75K of "earned" income, it can go on forever.
Dave
== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 5:30 pm
From: Dave Garland
Jim wrote:
> very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed
> do indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.
That's actually an additional 7.5% (or thereabouts). Yeah, I'm
self-employed and very aware of it. The other half of FICA comes out
of people's paychecks so everybody pays that. (Except for high-income
people, who are exempt.)
Dave
== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 5:30 pm
From: clams_casino
clams_casino wrote:
> Neon John wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:25:01 -0800 (PST), tmclone@searchmachine.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Whatever. I pay $4800 taxes on a house assessed at $120k. I pay $6000
>>> income taxes on an income of $20k. It all seems obscenely high to me.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Holy sh*t! My 1000 sq ft cabin is appraised at $60,000 which is far
>> too high
>> but this is a fishing resort. Anwhere else it would run in the $35
>> to $40k
>> range. Anyway, my property tax last year was $947.40. No state
>> income tax.
>>
>> I don't see how you exist in NY, much less live. I'm disabled (but not
>> "drawing") and my combined income this year will be under $10k, yet I
>> can live
>> like a king. Well, if not a king, at least like I want to.
>>
>> Here's a table of TN property taxes by county and city. Something to
>> cry over
>> :-)
>>
>> http://www.comptroller1.state.tn.us/PAnew/LR.asp?W=07
>>
>>
>>
>
> I lived in TN - the 9.75% sales tax on most everything essentially
> made up for an income tax, although the property taxes were agreeably
> reasonable, assuming one was not concerned about having children in a
> typical TN school system.
>
> On the other hand, the property taxes were artificially low due to all
> the added fees for garbage pickup, library usage, no fire department,
> etc. I was even paying a double water bill simply because I was in
> the county, plus fire insurance was fairly high due to not having a
> fire department. Yes, the property taxes are relatively low in TN,
> but certainly not as low as they might first appear.
There's something odd about the rates in that table. They do not appear
to be a typical mil rate (dollars per $1k assessment) where a
significant adjustment seems to be required compared with other areas..
For example, my home was accessed at $258k and taxed at $1632 or $6.33/
$1000, yet the table is showing a county tax rate of only 2.53 (also
as shown on my tax bill).
Oddly, they claimed a tax rate of 25% of the appraised value. The
2.53 rate appears to be per $100, at 25% of the appraised value ( 2.53
x 2580 x 0.25 = $1632) - NOT a mil rate.
Had I lived within the city limits with a significantly improved school
system, fire department, trash pickup, libraries, lower home insurance,
1/2 water bill, etc the tax would have been $3116 for a 12.1 mil rate,
but the table only shows 4.83 (4.83 x 2580 x 0.25 = $3116). A 12 mil
rate on full value is not that uncommon around the country.
== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 6:20 pm
From: Jim
Dave Garland wrote:
> Jim wrote:
> > very very few people actually understand how it is the self employed
> > do indeed pay an additional 15% income tax.
>
> That's actually an additional 7.5% (or thereabouts). Yeah, I'm
> self-employed and very aware of it. The other half of FICA comes out
> of people's paychecks so everybody pays that. (Except for high-income
> people, who are exempt.)
>
> Dave
I might need to clear this up a bit. first HI! Dave
when I sit down with super smart tax accountant we calculate what I own
by using the 15% number. from the web page I just tonight looked at I
[might] be using the number 15.3% this year. I am really not sure which
number we'll be using this year. one thing is certain, we'll be using
the number super smart tax accountant says to use.
second clarification on what I wrote earlier.
"with all things being equal between the factory employed worker and
the self employed worker with both having a taxable income of 20,000
dollars the self employed person pays an additional 15% over and above
that of the factory worker."
the above is in error and should have been written as follows:
with all things being equal between the factory employed worker and
the self employed worker with both having a taxable income of 20,000
dollars the self employed person pays an additional 7.5% or 7.6% over
and above that of the factory worker.
someone can always step up and further refine this 7.5% or 7.6%
== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 8:43 pm
From: Brian Elfert
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> writes:
>That's actually an additional 7.5% (or thereabouts). Yeah, I'm
>self-employed and very aware of it. The other half of FICA comes out
>of people's paychecks so everybody pays that. (Except for high-income
>people, who are exempt.)
High income people still pay Social Security taxes on income up to I think
$103,000 this year. The Medicare part of the tax has no income limit.
== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 10:26 pm
From: Dave Garland
Brian Elfert wrote:
> High income people still pay Social Security taxes on income up to I think
> $103,000 this year.
If it's "earned", that is, from punching the clock rather than from
interest, dividends, rental income, capital gains. Those latter
sources are exempt. And nothing on income above that amount. Make a
million bucks, pay SS on $103K (or less, depending on how you made the
money).
Dave
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What minor frugal change did you make this year?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/2d2a9d8612f0c718?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 2:03 pm
From: "JonquilJan"
I didn't
buy a cell phone
buy a DVD player
rent videos
I did
use coupons for grocery shopping
plant a small garden for fresh salad greens
use reuseable containers if I had to take food anywhere
keep only the basic cable channels
cancel all book club memberships
But all those are nothing new. With my income, I cut corners whereever and
whenever possible.
JonquilJan
Learn something new every day
As long as you are learning, you are living
When you stop learning, you start dying
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:22 pm
From: "Strider"
"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:gigoj7$1uo2$1@news.ett.com.ua...
> I thought it would be fun to share stories about things we have done this
> year to make a small but frugal difference in our budgets and such.
>
> For me, this year I got annoyed at having to buy sandwich bags over and
> over, and realized I could cut down on this some if I started reusing the
> bread, bagel and English Muffin wrappers (and even plastic cereal bags from
> inside the boxes). So now we reuse our bread wrappers, and I've cut down
> on the purchase of sandwich bags by about 20%. It feels good to reuse
> something we were formerly throwing away without thinking about it, too.
>
> Another small change I made was installing a power strip to have our
> laptop and accessories plugged in to. I read that not having the laptop
> plugged in all the time will make the batteries last longer. We also have
> a visioneer scanner with no power switch that sucks a bit of energy all the
> time, and a Yahoo Messenger phone that I use once in a great while. I put
> all of these on the power strip, and now I switch it all off at night. No
> more power draw on the electric bill for a whole weekend if we are away.
>
> So that's a couple of small changes we have made. How about you?
1. We dumped all our DirecTV sports packages (NFL, NHL & MLS).
2. The wife started making her own lunches to take to work (I've been doing
that for years).
3. I started using 1 sandwich bag for a week's worth of sandwiches instead of
one a day. (But I might try your suggestion as well.)
--
ROT13 the "reply to" for e-mail address.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 5:23 pm
From: Dave Garland
Figured a better way to double-storm windows (it's supposed to be -15F
here tomorrow night, and the windows in my house were installed in 1906).
The kits they sell at the store that attach with double-sided tape
(and sometimes shrink-fit) don't last more than a season or two. And
the adhesive either gunks the woodwork, or rips the finish off.
Frost-king sells plastic channel to attach the plastic to. But in my
experience it doesn't last more than a few years before it cracks and
breaks. At least you can re-use the plastic sheet for a few years
(the crystal-clear is thin and fragile, the slightly milky roll poly
is fairly durable, and ok for windows you don't look out of anyhow).
I got heavy crystal-clear plastic, not sure the composition (it's not
poly) but it reminds me of the clear plastic slipcovers people used to
use in the 1960s. Came in a roll interleaved with protective tissue.
Cut furring strips (1x2, though smaller would work) cut to exactly
butt join on the top, sides, and sill. Finished it the same color as
the woodwork. Took old T-shirt material and spray glue, and stuck a
layer of fabric as a cushion onto one side, where it would go against
the plastic. Predrilled 4 holes in each piece, put the plastic up
(held temporarily with masking tape), and fastened it down with the
new sticks, screwed with sheetrock screws into the window frame.
(Yes, that'll make a few small holes in the frame, but if you mark the
sticks so you know which goes where, you can use the same holes year
after year. And it's way better than the damage the tape does.). If
you've got blinds, cut a little hole (reinforced with filament tape)
for the rod that controls the louvers. The whole process wasn't much
more work than the tape-it-up stuff, looks better, and should last a
lot longer (I suppose eventually the plastic will need to be replaced,
but the one I did last year doesn't show any sign of deterioration.)
Oh, before you seal things up, if the windows are old use rope caulk
to seal the joints. In my experience Mortite brand actually works
better than the other brands. But no, even though they say you can
reuse it, that doesn't work, once it gets dusty it doesn't stick well
any more.
Stay warm,
Dave
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 5:39 pm
From: Vic Smith
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:23:36 -0600, Dave Garland
<dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>Figured a better way to double-storm windows (it's supposed to be -15F
>here tomorrow night, and the windows in my house were installed in 1906).
>
>The kits they sell at the store that attach with double-sided tape
>(and sometimes shrink-fit) don't last more than a season or two. And
>the adhesive either gunks the woodwork, or rips the finish off.
>
>Frost-king sells plastic channel to attach the plastic to. But in my
>experience it doesn't last more than a few years before it cracks and
>breaks. At least you can re-use the plastic sheet for a few years
>(the crystal-clear is thin and fragile, the slightly milky roll poly
>is fairly durable, and ok for windows you don't look out of anyhow).
>
>I got heavy crystal-clear plastic, not sure the composition (it's not
>poly) but it reminds me of the clear plastic slipcovers people used to
>use in the 1960s. Came in a roll interleaved with protective tissue.
> Cut furring strips (1x2, though smaller would work) cut to exactly
>butt join on the top, sides, and sill. Finished it the same color as
>the woodwork. Took old T-shirt material and spray glue, and stuck a
>layer of fabric as a cushion onto one side, where it would go against
>the plastic. Predrilled 4 holes in each piece, put the plastic up
>(held temporarily with masking tape), and fastened it down with the
>new sticks, screwed with sheetrock screws into the window frame.
>(Yes, that'll make a few small holes in the frame, but if you mark the
>sticks so you know which goes where, you can use the same holes year
>after year. And it's way better than the damage the tape does.). If
>you've got blinds, cut a little hole (reinforced with filament tape)
>for the rod that controls the louvers. The whole process wasn't much
>more work than the tape-it-up stuff, looks better, and should last a
>lot longer (I suppose eventually the plastic will need to be replaced,
>but the one I did last year doesn't show any sign of deterioration.)
>
>Oh, before you seal things up, if the windows are old use rope caulk
>to seal the joints. In my experience Mortite brand actually works
>better than the other brands. But no, even though they say you can
>reuse it, that doesn't work, once it gets dusty it doesn't stick well
>any more.
>
Sounds like a plan.
Did you ever think of panels for the windows?
By that I mean insulation filled (could be fiberglass batts) and
fabric covered permanent panels that would fit snugly inside the
window casings or be attached with battens outside.
Of course they wouldn't let in light, and you couldn't see through the
window when they're up.
But they might be worthwhile for some windows in winter, and even some
little used windows when cooling.
You would have to manage a place for them when not in/on the window.
I've thought of making some up a few times, but could never work up
the courage to even mention it to my wife.
She hates caves.
--Vic
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 8:05 pm
From: Dave Garland
Vic Smith wrote:
> Did you ever think of panels for the windows?
> By that I mean insulation filled (could be fiberglass batts) and
> fabric covered permanent panels that would fit snugly inside the
> window casings or be attached with battens outside.
> Of course they wouldn't let in light, and you couldn't see through the
> window when they're up.
> But they might be worthwhile for some windows in winter, and even some
> little used windows when cooling.
I've got a few windows that I don't look out of where I've cut pieces
of 1" insulating foam to snugly fit, that's easy. I calculated that
1" foam would have a payback of about 2 years. I've variously covered
it on the outside with aluminum foil (stuck on with spray adhesive),
which adds another fractional R unit and protects the foam from
sunlight, painted the outside surface white, and done nothing. It
actually holds up pretty well in sunlight, one east-facing panel
without surface treatment has been in place (behind an unused storm
door) about 12 years and hasn't deteriorated too much.
You wouldn't want to use foam anywhere that there was a possibility of
fire... it gives off nasty fumes if it burns. But you could stick a
piece of masonite paneling on the inside for protection (and
aesthetics and physical protection).
I've got fiberglass batts over the inside of a couple of basement
windows, but it looks pretty crude.
> I've thought of making some up a few times, but could never work up
> the courage to even mention it to my wife.
> She hates caves.
You've got to be selective about where you use them. :)
Dave
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gov't to big 3 seeking bailout: no more private jets for you!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b69b9f5b3b347b9?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 3:58 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com
HAHA!
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:32 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com
On Dec 20, 3:58 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/5114395/auto-executives-will-have-to-give-up-t...
>
> HAHA!
Hmm, Ford does not seem to be seeking aid just yet, so they wont know
the joys of a 5 year old kid kicking their seat backs or the man in
the front reclining his seat this breaking their tray table bound
laptop screens just yet.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:36 pm
From: Liberal Whisperer
On Dec 20, 5:58 pm, ultim...@live.com wrote:
> http://consumerist.com/5114395/auto-executives-will-have-to-give-up-t...
>
> HAHA!
Does that mean Madame Pelosi and Dr.Gore will give theirs up too??
==============================================================================
TOPIC: MERRY YULE W.A.S.Ps!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1bd5257a7dd9ea3f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:00 pm
From: wismel@yahoo.com
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 14:45:41 -0800 (PST), "."
<bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> wrote:
>In the Northern Hemisphere, the Winter Solstice occurs on December 21,
>2008 at 7:04 AM EST and 12:04 UT (Universal Time).
>
>For thousands of years, people all over the Planet Earth have
>celebrated the Winter Solstice, the time when the Sun returns after
>the winter's cold and darkness.
>
>In pre-Christian Northern Europe this festival was called Yule. The
>celebration of Yule in Scandinavia predates the Christian holiday by
>thousands of years
>
>Winter Solstice, the time of the year when the days get longer and the
>sun begins to return was truly a cause for celebration among our
>ancestors in Scandinavia. Their Midwinter Feast lasted at least twelve
>days (12 day of Christmas).
>
>Most Christmas traditions are rooted deep in ancient Yule rituals,
>many coming from the Vikings. Historic evidence indicates that Jesus
>was not born on December 25, but in the Spring. Why is then Christmas
>celebrated on December 25? A common theory is that the Christian
>church designated this date as the day of Christ's birth to coincide
>with the Nordic Midvinter Solstice celebrations, as well as with a
>Roman midwinder fest called Saturnalia, in order to "facilitate" the
>conversion of "heathens" to Christianity.
>
>At Midwinter, or Solstice, the Vikings honored their Asa Gods with
>religious rituals and feasting. They sacrificed a wild boar to Frey,
>the God of fertility and farming, to assure a good growing season in
>the coming year. The meat was then cooked and eaten at the feast. This
>is the origin of today's Christmas ham in Scandinavia.
>
>During the festivities they burned a giant Sunwheel, which was put on
>fire and rolled down a hill to entice the Sun to return. According to
>one theory, this is the origin of the Christmas wreath.
>
>Another Viking tradition was the Yulelog, a large oak log decorated
>with sprigs of fir, holly or yew. They carved runes on it, asking the
>Gods to protect them from misfortune. A piece of the log was saved to
>protect the home during the coming year and light next year's fire.
>Today, most know the Yulelog as a cake or cheese log rolled in nuts.
>
>Even the Christmas tree goes back to pre-Christian times. The Vikings
>decorated evergreen trees with pieces of food and clothes, small
>statues of the Gods, carved runes, etc., to entice the tree spirits to
>come back in the spring.
>
>Ancient myths surround the Mistletoe. The Vikings believed it could
>resurrect the dead, a belief based on a legend about the resurrection
>of Balder, God of Light and Goodness, who was killed by a mistletoe
>arrow but resurrected when tears of his mother Frigga turned the red
>mistletoe berries white.
>
>The Yule Goat, is one of the oldest Scandinavian Christmas symbols.
>Its origin is the legend about the Thunder-god Thor who rode in the
>sky in a wagon pulled by two goats. An old custom was for young people
>to dress up in goat skins and go from house to house and sing and
>perform simple plays. They were rewarded with food and drink. The Yule
>Goat at one time also brought Yule gifts. This character was later
>replaced with "jultomten" (Santa Claus).
>
>Our pre-Christian ancestors would dress up someone to represent Old
>Man Winter, who was welcomed into homes to join the festivities.
>Dressed in a hooded fur coat, Father Christmas traveled either by foot
>or on a giant white horse. Some think that this horse may have been
>Odin's horse Sleipnir and that Father Christmas was originally Odin,
>who was often depicted with a long beard. When the Vikings conquered
>Britain in the 8th and 9th centuries, he was introduced there and
>became the English Father Christmas.
>
>Today, Viking Yule is celebrated in reconstructed Viking Villages such
>as Foteviken in Skåne and Jörvik in England, where visitors in
>December can make Christmas decorations with the Vikings, listen to
>Viking legends and hang their wishes in Odin's Yule Tree. Viking Yule
>is also celebrated by Asatruers, who revive the old Nordic religion,
>called Asatru.
>
>Of course, our Scandinavian forefathers were not alone in celebrating
>the Winter Solstice. All over the world, and throughout history,
>people have celebrated the sun's return after the winter with a wide
>diversity of rituals and traditions. And still are.
>
>http://skandland.com/vikxmas.htm
>
>I love my white ancestry!
>
>Wassail comrades! Happy Winter Solstice to all!
All hail our Folk!
ted
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Screaming babies and cramped seats next to people dripping snot for
CEOs in the future?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ea4291164eb6ae2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:02 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com
HAHA!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Crybaby judge who lost his job over his nonsense loses appeal for 54
milion dollar suit over pants
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ea4fd1a87b41133e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:05 pm
From: ultimauw@live.com
GOOD!
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 20 2008 4:13 pm
From: The Real Bev
ultimauw@live.com wrote:
A local judge ordered that a guy with green hair be held for psychiatric
evaluation. The guy kept trying to tell him he was in a rock group and
they ALL had green hair, but to no avail. The judge lost his job at the
next election.
Sometimes things work out right.
--
Cheers,
Bev
=======================================================================
"Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the
bodies of the people who pissed me off."
==============================================================================
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.
To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en
To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com
==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en
