Frugal Living: Feb 16, 2009

Monday, February 16, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bubbles are caused by excessive credit.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d06a55cb7610180d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 10:23 pm
From: Peter Franks

(David P.) wrote:
> The main cause of the Population Bubble is also
> excessive credit, i.e., saying that everyone is a
> valuable asset as long as they live.
> L I K E H E L L T H E Y A R E ! !
> Hordes are no longer viable, due to infirmity,
> and become a drag on the system.

I'm not aware of bubbles in nations where there are these so-called
'hordes' you speak of.

Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your 'theory' -- explain in the
US how hordes caused the bubble.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 12:14 pm
From: "(David P.)"

Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
> (David P.) wrote:
> > The main cause of the Population Bubble is also
> > excessive credit, i.e., saying that everyone is a
> > valuable asset as long as they live.
> > L I K E H E L L T H E Y A R E ! !
> > Hordes are no longer viable, due to infirmity,
> > and become a drag on the system.
>
> I'm not aware of bubbles in nations where there are these so-called
> 'hordes' you speak of.
>
> Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your 'theory' -- explain in the
> US how hordes caused the bubble.

Why shouldn't there be limits on longevity?
There are limits on everything else!
.
.
--

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 12:21 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

(David P.) wrote:
> Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
>> (David P.) wrote:
>>> The main cause of the Population Bubble is also
>>> excessive credit, i.e., saying that everyone is a
>>> valuable asset as long as they live.
>>> L I K E H E L L T H E Y A R E ! !
>>> Hordes are no longer viable, due to infirmity,
>>> and become a drag on the system.
>>
>> I'm not aware of bubbles in nations where there are these so-called
>> 'hordes' you speak of.
>>
>> Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your 'theory' -- explain in
>> the US how hordes caused the bubble.
>
> Why shouldn't there be limits on longevity?
> There are limits on everything else!

There's no limit to your stupidity!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: NFL Jerseys=22USD Mlb jerseys=20USD Nhl Jerseys=35USD paypal payment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1ed825bbac6f5708?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 3:43 am
From: ajay100@163.com

Arizona Cardinals Atlanta Falcons Baltimore Ravens Buffalo Bills
Cincinnati Bengals Cleveland Browns Carolina Panthers Chicago Bears
Denver Broncos Dallas Cowboys Detroit Lions Houston Texans
Indianapolis Colts paypal payment Jacksonville Jaguars Kansas City
Chiefs Green Bay Packers Miami Dolphins Minnesota Vikings New England
Patriots New York Jets New York Giants New Orleans Saints Oakland
Raiders Pittsburgh Steelers Philadelphia Eagles San Diego Chargers San
Francisco 49ers Seattle Seahawks St Louis Rams Tennessee Titans Tampa
Bay Buccaneers Washington Redskins paypal payment
www.cicigogo.cn Nhl hockey jerseys www.cicigogo.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV converters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e46bdc878c0fe848?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 4:57 am
From: "John A. Weeks III"

In article <Oq-dncET7ryyewXUnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
Jeff <dont_bug_me@all.uk> wrote:

> Well, they weren't available two years ago, even one year ago. Just
> some very pricey ATSC tuners in the well over $100 range.

So, with a dot UK e-mail address, why does this matter to you
anyway? The UK is not part of the DTV conversion that I am aware
of.

> It's always a tradeoff with electronic gizmos, they always get
> better, and cheaper. When do you buy?

That is always going to be true. If you wait, you risk missing out.
If you adopt early, you risk getting something that will be obsolete.
You have to buy based on your personal values -- when the value of
having the device is more than the value you place on the money,
then the return on investment is positive for you. That is the
time to buy.

-john-

--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 john@johnweeks.com
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
======================================================================

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 5:30 am
From: Derald

"Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Anyone who's not ready now, isn't likely to be
>ready in June, October or even next year. No reason to delay it for
>those of us who take care of our business.
The silly irony is that stations, by simply announcing their
intention to FCC by Monday (Feb 9), are free to kill their analog signal
on Tuesday (Feb 17) as originally scheduled which will still leave
laggard consumers out of the club, at least for those specific stations.
Your patriotic tax dollars at work.... For all of last week, tvfool had
a downloadable listing (in m$excel format) of stations that are going to
pull the plug on the original schedule but I could not find it yesterday
(Sun Feb 15). .

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 7:57 am
From: Jeff

John A. Weeks III wrote:
> In article <Oq-dncET7ryyewXUnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> Jeff <dont_bug_me@all.uk> wrote:
>
>> Well, they weren't available two years ago, even one year ago. Just
>> some very pricey ATSC tuners in the well over $100 range.
>
> So, with a dot UK e-mail address, why does this matter to you
> anyway? The UK is not part of the DTV conversion that I am aware
> of.

It's a fake address there is no all.uk and there could be none. I'm in
Atlanta. I did not want to use a real address as the site owner would
get traffic from email harvesting, just hitting the domain.

>
>> It's always a tradeoff with electronic gizmos, they always get
>> better, and cheaper. When do you buy?
>
> That is always going to be true. If you wait, you risk missing out.
> If you adopt early, you risk getting something that will be obsolete.
> You have to buy based on your personal values -- when the value of
> having the device is more than the value you place on the money,
> then the return on investment is positive for you. That is the
> time to buy.

That's about it.

Personally I'm adverse to getting first generation goods, but then,
I've worked as a repair technician.

Jeff
>
> -john-
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: America is doomed without industrial restoration
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ac833194943bee0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 5:01 am
From: zzbunker

On Feb 13, 6:15 pm, Democracy Highlander
<democracy.highlan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2:53 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
>
> > Democracy Highlander wrote:
>
> > >The previous government pissed away a lot of tax money by giving
> > >unworthy tax cuts to useless idle.
>
> > Especially the financial bankers & Bank CEOs..
>
> Probably we can make a bit more sense of how and why this recession
> has been triggered
> if we investigate the inner-workings of businessmen brains:
>
> ====================
> The businessman brain is build primary of 2 neurons, one for each side
> of the nose tuned to the smell of money. Each of those 2 neurons are
> cross-wired into the locomotor system right nostril neuron fire left
> limbs, left nostril
> neuron control right limbs.

Many are far worse than that. Since the people with
actual post WWII science, engineering, medical,
and media education just keep the idiots when you
a Mack Truck to a Gas Turbine compeition, the
Mack Truck is not only going to lose it's going
to lose twice. Once to the people who know
engines work, and once to the people who know
how hydraulics work.
And when you bring a slide rule to a laser contest,
the slide rule is not only going to lose, it also
going to lose on the Moon.
And when you bring GM to a computerized Welding Contest,
GM is not only going to lose, but Ford, Chrysler, US Steel,
GE, Sears, AT&T, Exxon, Boeing, and Catepillar Tractors are
going to lose too.
And when you bring CBS to a Hologram Contest,
CBS is not only going to lose, it;s going to lose
in Primetime, and on The Weather Broadcast,
The Box Office, The Home Market, and
in the Printing Presses.

> The locomotor limbs move at a speed directly proportional with the
> signal they get from the neuron.
> When there is no smell at all the businessmen stay.
> When the smell is sensed equal by both nostrils, the limbs move at an
> equal speed, so the businessman move ahead.
> When the smell is sensed stronger into a nostril, the opposite
> limbs move faster that the other side so the businessman turn to that
> direction.
> If the smell remain equal in both nostrils but the intensity decrease
> in time, the third neuron fire so businessman turn 180 degree.
> When whiskers sense touch, the businessman open the mouth and eat.
> This reflex is trigger by his fourth and last neuron in businessman
> brain.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 1:17 pm
From: "Bill Bonde { No matter what happens, it's caused by global warming )"

Rod Speed wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde { No matter what happens, it's caused by global warming ) wrote
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Bill Bonde wrote
> >>> John A. Weeks III wrote
> >>>> wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>>>> In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity..
> >>>>> the loss of US created wealth.
>
> >>>> Ummm, worker productivity has been at an all time high for quite
> >>>> some time, and has been surging ahead over the past few months.
> >>>> There is no issue with productivity.
>
> >>>>> Unless the US can rebuild its manufacturing capability it
> >>>>> will be a long slide into a third world level of subsistence.
>
> >>>> Ummm, the US is at an all time high for manufacturing at the
> >>>> moment. We manufacture far more than we did in 15 years ago.
> >>>> That is now an issue right now.
>
> >>>>> The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers - and
> >>>>> only US workers - the ability to make this country into a powerhouse again
>
> >>>> That sounds like the old burry you head in the sand
> >>>> and hope it goes away theory. Good luck with that.
>
> >>> There is an issue with regards to the balance of trade.
> >>> For some reason the Chinese economy is tanking,
>
> >> Because the world economy is tanking and so exports are dropping.
>
> > I know that, the issue is why are their imports also dropped quickly
>
> Because so many of them have lost their jobs and hordes more worry about
> how long they will have their jobs for, and so they dont buy whats imported.
>
I didn't ask that, you changed what I asked. I want to know why the
exports are down and the country is still running a huge surplus?

> > even as they have a trade surplus? Why not export
> > $30bn a month in food to China and balance things up?
>
> Because they arent interested in importing US food.
>
They'd rather starve. But that's the problem, the US can't be the
dumping ground for the excess industrial capacity of the world any
more.

> > They could eat and the US would be slightly less in trouble.
>
> Yes, but they arent interested in importing US food.
>
But that's the problem.

> >>> imports are going down,
>
> >> Because the chinese economy is tanking.
>
> > But they still have $30bn a month.
>
> Yes, because the economy is taking and thats affecting both imports
> and exports, and they still have a massive trade surplus in their favour.
>
That's just restating what I said. Why can't they start using that
surplus to buy food so their people aren't starving?

> >>> and yet they are still running about a $30bn a month trade surplus.
>
> >> Yep, because even when the world economy is tanking, that does not mean zero exports.
>
> >> People still need to buy lots of stuff.
>
> > But why are the Chinse starving
>
> No chinese are starving. They havent done that since the cultural revolution.
>
And Americans are starving? Please. Look at rural China, it's not a
pretty picture.

> > when they get $30bn a month in surplus?
>
> >>> Meanwhile the people are starving.
>
> >> Nope, no chinese are starving.
>
> > I bet you claim that Americans are.
>
> Nope, I have in fact said repeatedly that the only americans who
> are starving are those with mental conditions like anorexia etc.
>
> They cant be starving with so many obscenely obese americans around.
>
That's what I said.

> When was the last time you saw an american with its ribs sticking out
> like you see with concentration camps except those with anorexia etc ?
>
I didn't claim that Americans were starving, that's what the
Liberals say.

> >>> How about employing Americans to grow some food and sell it to China?
>
> >> They do.
>
> > I'm talking about to make up the trade difference.
>
> They grow enough of their own food to not need to import that much from america.
>
No they don't. China hasn't even figured out food much less a
consumer economy.

> >>> The blackhole that this money is going into needs to stop.
>
> >> Easier said than done.
>
> > People could start talking about it.
>
> They are, no one has been able to come up with any way to stop it happening.
>
Boycott their products.

--
He and Evie soon fell into a conversation of the "No, I didn't;
yes, you did" type--conversation which, though fascinating to those
who are engaged in it, neither desires nor deserves the attention
of others.
-+E.M. Forster, "Howards End"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much does a blood type test cost?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d8b5e5aebc0d6445?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 6:52 am
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

That is, compared to a DNA test.

Here's why 8 British teenage boys will definitely want to have one or
both done:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.obituaries/browse_thread/thread/72b76fd631c2f57e#

Lenona.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 11:14 am
From: "Rod Speed"

lenona321@yahoo.com wrote:

> That is, compared to a DNA test.

> Here's why 8 British teenage boys will definitely want to have one or both done:

> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.obituaries/browse_thread/thread/72b76fd631c2f57e#

Nope, the system will be paying for it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dell Studio Hybrid - best deal on a small desktop?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cc6a2179345ac8ef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 6:58 am
From: OhioGuy

I'm looking for a small, stylish desktop PC that won't take up much room.

I've been looking at the Dell Studio Hybrid:

http://bensbargains.net/deal/76909/

It runs in the ~$450 range, and it isn't very upgradeable

I was wondering, can anyone suggest something similar that might be a
bit more upgradeable? Perhaps some sort of standard mini PC? It also
seems like this thing is rather overpriced for what you get.

Thanks!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 8:59 am
From: "Dave"

"OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:gnbuvm$239s$1@news.ett.com.ua...
> I'm looking for a small, stylish desktop PC that won't take up much
room.
>
> I've been looking at the Dell Studio Hybrid:
>
> http://bensbargains.net/deal/76909/
>
> It runs in the ~$450 range, and it isn't very upgradeable
>
>
> I was wondering, can anyone suggest something similar that might be a
> bit more upgradeable? Perhaps some sort of standard mini PC? It also
> seems like this thing is rather overpriced for what you get.
>
> Thanks!

Here ya go. Build whatever you want. It costs about a hundred bucks, but
that's not much more than you'd pay for a decent case anyway. -Dave

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163123

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 12:16 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <gnbuvm$239s$1@news.ett.com.ua>, OhioGuy <none@none.net>
wrote:

> I'm looking for a small, stylish desktop PC that won't take up much room.
>
> I've been looking at the Dell Studio Hybrid:
>
> http://bensbargains.net/deal/76909/
>
> It runs in the ~$450 range, and it isn't very upgradeable
>
>
> I was wondering, can anyone suggest something similar that might be a
> bit more upgradeable? Perhaps some sort of standard mini PC? It also
> seems like this thing is rather overpriced for what you get.

Upgradable in what sense? What do you plan to use this new PC for and
how long do you expect to keep it before you replace it with something
faster?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: nfl jerseys youth sizes,nfl replica football jerseys
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bdccc5f812d6b7de?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 7:16 am
From: "nflreebokjerseys03@yahoo.cn"

Welcome to www.retial-nfl-jerseys.com
we are the direct factory of jerseys from china.we have lots of nfl
nba mlb jerseys in stock .all the jerseys are 100% embroidery made
out of polyester reebok branded the number and letters were stitched
Nfl jerseys wholesale shop by stock list on our website www.retial-nfl-jerseys.com
1,NFL MLB :18-25$ each pcs
2,NBA:16-20$ each pcs NHL 45-55$ each pcs
3,the price shiping including
4,MOQ:10pcs
5,shiping by EMS(small quantity) DHL(large quantity )
6, delivery in 4-6days.100% guarantee delivery
E-mail: retialnfljerseys@ yahoo com cn
MSN: retialnfljerseys@ hotmail com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Living in CO
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6530b80539a24694?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 9:09 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:19:13 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>William Boyd wrote:
>
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>
>>> Our son recently took a job between Denver & Boulder CO. It's been
>>> some 30 years since we vacationed in the area, but still have fond
>>> memories, having enjoyed that memorable vacation very much.
>>>
>>> When doing a Best Places comparison, the quality of life, taxes,
>>> climate & cost of living look appear very attractive. Sales and
>>> income taxes appear moderate while property taxes appear very
>>> reasonable. As I approach SS, income taxes have a minimal concern
>>> where property taxes will likely be the biggest (tax) cost after
>>> retirement. Downside appears to be the 100 inches/yr of snow, but
>>> the number of sunny days & moderate temperatures for most of the year
>>> appear attractive. General cost of living, quality of life and
>>> housing costs appear attractive.
>>>
>>> Any one have thoughts / experience with retirement living in towns
>>> just northwest of Denver?
>>
>>
>> I can not understand why some one would retire in a cold climate.
>
>75F is tends to be my upper temperature tolerance. My brother in law
>has a condo just north of Tampa which he gladly offers us to use for
>weeks. We tried it for a week (in February). No thanks - even free.
>
>Our son was previously in Phoenix. We limited our visits to Feb -
>March - glad he left.. Same for my wife's relatives in MS - strictly a
>winter visit. Went once in July many years ago. Never again.

One of the coldest nighttimes drives I ever took was from Denver to
Boulder and back to visit a friend - and I grew up in Vermont. Don't
let anyone kid you that winters are "mild." Maybe they generally warm
up some during the day because of the sun, but it can be colder than a
witches tit.

Be aware of all the little rules and regulations that can make life
crazy. You aren't allowed to harvest rainwater in Colorado. If there
ever is a tax on sunlight, it'll probably start in Colorado or
California. If I had to live in the state, I'd likely choose Golden
over Boulder or Denver.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Yid
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0f5d2ea174ff4ffb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 10:12 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Feb 13, 1:57 pm, hp...@lycos.com wrote:

> I apologize for some of language in the post but it raises many
> questions
> worth considering.
>
> mitch

The first question it raises is: why can't the author write a
coherent
essay? "Stream of consciousness" is a technique for fiction.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Money ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3e21db3094e8b040?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 10:12 am
From: Devo

In article <6vnecdFl02q3U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Okikuro wrote
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >> You can also buy gold.
>
> > how much over the price of gold (troy oz.) should one pay for a coin?
>
> I prefer to stick with real gold myself.
>
> > Like the Canadian Maple Leaf?

the only trouble with a nugget is the assay costs . not as easily
"recognized".
--
It's amazing what you can do. If...
you put your mind to it.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 11:17 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Devo wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Okikuro wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> You can also buy gold.

>>> how much over the price of gold (troy oz.) should one pay for a coin?

>> I prefer to stick with real gold myself.

>>> Like the Canadian Maple Leaf?

> the only trouble with a nugget is the assay costs . not as easily "recognized".

Depends on the real gold you use. Some are serial numbered quite small bars with a proper provenance certificate etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hard boiled eggs.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/032a3102de8f165d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 10:30 am
From: James

Stopped by WalMart today and large eggs are for $1.58 a dozen so no
need to really stock up. It seemed to be a real deal at Safeway
because their regular price is $3.29 a dozen.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 10:43 am
From: Omelet

In article
<99039a70-1398-439f-9554-bc7f188c14c2@x9g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Stopped by WalMart today and large eggs are for $1.58 a dozen so no
> need to really stock up. It seemed to be a real deal at Safeway
> because their regular price is $3.29 a dozen.

That's insane.
--
Peace! Om

I find hope in the darkest of days, and focus in the brightest. I do not judge the universe. -- Dalai Lama

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Countrywide/First USA End 2% Cash Rebate Visa
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/146678885dbd4ff4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 12:08 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <john-074A05.11501914022009@news-3.octanews.net>,
"John A. Weeks III" <john@johnweeks.com> wrote:

> In article <_QCll.20386$Ws1.17147@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I knew that it was too good to last. I got a letter telling me that the
> > 2% cash rebate is history on March 29th. This was the best credit card
> > cash rebate program available.
>
> Discover Card has had the 2% cash back, which you can double by
> taking a coupon for any of the vendors that advertise with them.
> They also have 5% on selected items, which rotates every 90 days.
> This quarter, it is on travel related items like airline tickets.
> I have used Discover Card since they first came out in the mid
> 1980s, and never had an issue with them.

Perhaps the situation differs in your area, but where I live in NJ, the
majority of merchants do not accept Discover. I have two Discover cards,
one of which is their best credit card. Both of those cards sit and
collect dust because they aren't accepted anywhere I shop. I also hate
the way Discover handles online bill payments.

With all my other credit cards, I set up my online bill payer account
via my credit union's web site to accept electronic billing notices and
pay each of my credit card bills automatically. Maybe Discover recanted,
but a few years ago, I received a notice in the mail that Discover would
no longer do any more that due to "security concerns." They said in
their letter that anyone who wants to do only bill paying had to log
into their web site and set it up and log in monthly to issue payments.
I much prefer to manage all my online bill payments from my credit
union's bill paying web site, instead of logging into multiple
creditors' web sites. I responded to Discover's notice by saying that I
will not use their credit cards until they drop that ban. I never heard
back from them, but I now only use my two Discover cards once a year,
just so I can keep them as positive entries on my credit record.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 1:57 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 15:08:35 -0500, Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net>
wrote:

>With all my other credit cards, I set up my online bill payer account
>via my credit union's web site to accept electronic billing notices and
>pay each of my credit card bills automatically. Maybe Discover recanted,
>but a few years ago, I received a notice in the mail that Discover would
>no longer do any more that due to "security concerns." They said in
>their letter that anyone who wants to do only bill paying had to log
>into their web site and set it up and log in monthly to issue payments.

I've paid Discover by EFT for years, but I have to initiate the
transfer and specify the amount. Sounds like you want to entirely
automate the process, which I would not do... because of security
concerns.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it legal for a company to SHORTEN their advertised warranty?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a48e6176efb2e22e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 12:12 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <gn74cm$1b63$1@news.ett.com.ua>, OhioGuy <none@none.net>
wrote:

> I've run into a couple of instances recently where a company seems to
> have retroactively changed the warranty on a product. The first was the
> actual manufacturer, and the second was a reseller.
>
> The first was a Logitech Trackman Wheel trackball, model # T-BB18.
> Inside the retail box, it clearly describes it as "Logitech warrants
> that any hardware products accompanying this documentation shall be free
> from significant defects in material and workmanship for a period of
> five years from the date of purchase." On the back of the box, it even
> says in French, Garantie 5 ans, and in Spanish, Garantia de 5 anos. I
> think it was pretty clear cut.
>
> However, when I got on the website and put in the model # and
> everything, they only show a 3 year warranty for it. 2 years
> disappeared! So instead of having just under 4 years left, I supposedly
> only have less than 2 years. Not nice being told your warranty has been
> cut in half, and you're not getting what the box said you were.
> Normally it wouldn't be much of an issue, but the cord developed some
> sort of short circuit about 3" from where it leaves the trackball, so
> I'm going to try to get it replaced under the warranty. (granted - it's
> a first for any Logitech product I've ever owned)

Call Logitech and explain the situation and tell them about the warranty
on the package. Odds are, they will honor the longer warranty period, so
why worry about something that hasn't happened yet and may never happen?
If Logic fails to honor the warranty, contact your state's Attorney
General via your state's web site to see what, if any, action can be
taken against Logitech.

> The other instance was a digital projector that was advertised on
> Tigerdirect.com with a 24 month warranty on parts, and a 24 month
> warranty on labor. (the manufacturer's website says that the warranty
> varies by reseller) At the time I placed my order, I decided it would
> also be prudent to grab a screenshot of the page showing the two year
> warranty.
>
> I'm glad I did, because now that Tigerdirect is sold out, when I go
> to the same page and look at the description, it has been changed to
> show only a 12 month warranty on parts and labor - not 24 months. I
> have proof that it was marketed and sold as having a two year warranty,
> so I hope the manufacturer will honor this if I need to have the unit
> serviced during that time.
>
> How about you - have you noticed any similar changing of an
> advertised warranty after the fact?

No.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: need a small, inexpensive urban TV antenna
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22d545ae9e8cb014?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 16 2009 12:39 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <1p7fp45iugdqdmkvmfecs31ov0sclntsm0@4ax.com>,
josejarvie@ssnet.net wrote:

> I can not get any TV reception with analog so I guess the same will be true
> with digital. If I want TV here I'll have to stay with cable or satellite.

I live in a high rise apartment building that's built like Fort Knox. I
love the location where I live ... in a park setting, very close to
work, and lots of shopping nearby, but also very quiet. The downside to
my building is that indoor TV antennas don't work. I tried several. All
I get is static regardless of the antenna's placement. I cannot put up a
satellite antenna either, so its either cable TV or no TV for me.

My mom and dad live in a city row house. They are not big TV watchers.
Right now, they are using rabbit ears and they can get all the stations
they want. My dad tried two different DTV converter boxes and both
knocked out half the stations he likes. So he returned them. My dad was
poised to sign up for satellite TV service and buy a new high definition
LCD TV for the living room. He then heard about the possibility of this
DTV transition delay so he decided to hold off until the summer, with
the idea that the cost for a TV will drop even further. I think he made
a smart decision.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 16 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* America is doomed without industrial restoration - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ac833194943bee0?hl=en
* Bubbles are caused by excessive credit. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d06a55cb7610180d?hl=en
* Doorbell, etc. - Saving $2.50 per month! - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f28ae8d29331218e?hl=en
* OT - Survivalism Retail Style - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
* DTV converters - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e46bdc878c0fe848?hl=en
* need a small, inexpensive urban TV antenna - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22d545ae9e8cb014?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 5:52 pm
From: Aviroce

You remind me of a logical fallacy I would like to entertain you
with. Mark Twain, not one of my favorite as he is a racist, wrote:

One time, a group of citizens were fighting the board of education
until one guy among them yelled, "I read it in the Holly Book."
Every body stopped and listened.
He continued, "God created all idiots. And that was for practice.
Then he created the board of education." Everyone was perplexed as
well excited to hear him. Everyone had a laught or two and left the
gathering.

On Feb 15, 8:20 am, Hiccum Blurpaedius <hic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 12, 6:26 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > All the bailouts... and the stimulii...all the hot air....the debt...
> > the debt servicing... they DON"T MATTER
>
> > In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity.. the
> > loss of US created wealth.
> > Unless the US can rebuild its manufacturing capability it will be a
> > long slide into a third world level of subsistence.
>
> > Generating paper has never saved a country from its expoitators.
>
> > The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
> > and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
> > powerhouse again
>
> > This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
> > immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants!
>
> >http://www.numbersusa.com/ Numbers USA
>
> >http://www.wvwnews.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> > ted
>
> That is the solution.
>
> We manufature criminals.
> Then we manufacture drugs to sedate the voters.
> Then we allow illegal immigrants into the country.
> Then we sedate the voters. Those that refuse will be prosecuted.
>
> Now all we have yo do is sedate the rest of the world so we cam allow
> aliens from other planets to work for social security.
>
> Reganomics and the trickle down economy.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 6:10 pm
From: Aviroce

Four years ago or more, I wrote an article on open Yahoo forum which
Yahoo adapted to their file for publication. That article deals with
what America has been known for and that coincides with some of your
statements.

'The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
powerhouse again "

As for your,
"This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants! "
the Army announced plans to induct even temporary visa-ed Mexicans
into the Army to fill their quota. Needless to say, the military
complex had inducted over 88,000 illegal migrants into the Army,
Marines, and Navy and facilitated their USA citizenships while on
service of duty. Now they are openning the avenue for further
recruits.

Keep in mind these desparate Mexicans to make a living are "Slaves by
Choice." It is undfortunate. Even the Dollar Tree stores use
Mexicans for their dedicated labor for less. Rainbow clothing use
these Mexicans even in store management. When you pay an employee
twelve thousand dollars for work worth sixty thousand dollars, then
you got some choice to make.

What some of these businesses are forgetting about that American labor
is willing to go down in their wages just to land a job. I use a
handyman for $50 a day to fix my homes from sheet rock to roofing to
electrical work to heating and air conditionning. All workers are
Americans, black and white. No illegal aliens. That would be un-
American. Having said that I get offended to find an illegal alien
manning a Dollar Tree oe Rainbow stores while native Americans are
under his/her command. Are Americans being colonized?

On Feb 12, 6:26 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> All the bailouts... and the stimulii...all the hot air....the debt...
> the debt servicing... they DON"T MATTER
>
> In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity.. the
> loss of US created wealth.
> Unless the US can rebuild its manufacturing capability it will be a
> long slide into a third world level of subsistence.
>
> Generating paper has never saved a country from its expoitators.
>
> The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
> and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
> powerhouse again
>
> This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
> immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants!
>
> http://www.numbersusa.com/ Numbers USA
>
> http://www.wvwnews.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> ted

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 6:22 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

(David P.) wrote:
> Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>> Klaus Schadenfreude <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The main cause of the Population Bubble is also
>>>>> excessive credit
>>>>
>>>> The main cause is food production and advances in
>>>> medicine.http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0118-33.htm
>>>
>>> Stopping the suppression of influenza would
>>> be a good first step in the right direction.
>>
>> If your intent is to cause untold & widespread suffering,
>> I suppose it would. Wouldn't a nuke be quicker?

> It's better to let Mother Nature control population.

If your 'parents' had done that, you wouldnt be here.

> If you put people in charge of that, you're asking for trouble.

Nope.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 9:28 pm
From: "(David P.)"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> (David P.) wrote:
> > Klaus S. <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> Klaus S. <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> "(David P.)" <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The main cause of the Population Bubble is also
> >>>>> excessive credit
> >>>>
> >>>> The main cause is food production and advances in
> >>>> medicine.http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0118-33.htm
> >>>
> >>> Stopping the suppression of influenza would
> >>> be a good first step in the right direction.
> >>>
> >> If your intent is to cause untold & widespread suffering,
> >> I suppose it would. Wouldn't a nuke be quicker?
> > It's better to let Mother Nature control population.
>
> If your 'parents' had done that, you wouldnt be here.

My parents were in charge of population control?!?

> > If you put people in charge of that, you're asking for trouble.
>
> Nope.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 9:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

David P. wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> David P. wrote
>>> Klaus S. <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>> David P. <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote
>>>>> Klaus S. <klausschadenfre...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>> David P. <imb...@mindspring.com> wrote

>>>>>>> The main cause of the Population Bubble is also excessive credit

>>>>>> The main cause is food production and advances in medicine.
>>>>>> http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0118-33.htm

>>>>> Stopping the suppression of influenza would
>>>>> be a good first step in the right direction.

>>>> If your intent is to cause untold & widespread suffering,
>>>> I suppose it would. Wouldn't a nuke be quicker?

>>> It's better to let Mother Nature control population.

>> If your 'parents' had done that, you wouldnt be here.

> My parents were in charge of population control?!?

That particularly obscene contribution to the population, yep.

>>> If you put people in charge of that, you're asking for trouble.

>> Nope.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 10:23 pm
From: Peter Franks

I'm not aware of bubbles in nations where there are these so-called
'hordes' you speak of.

Perhaps you would care to elaborate on your 'theory' -- explain in the
US how hordes caused the bubble.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doorbell, etc. - Saving $2.50 per month!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f28ae8d29331218e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 6:45 pm
From: KevHaw@webtv.net (Kevin Hawerchuk)

I needed to replace a power bar today and decided to buy one that was
"green."
Basically it was a strip with 12 outlets. 3 are for "always on"
devices, one outlet was for the control, and 8 were peripherals that
only had power when the control outlet device was powered up.
The control device is my tv set and the peripherals are devices like
dvd players, laserdisc players, a desk lamp, ect.
It's touted to "pay for itself" eventually. The strip cost $40.
I really bought it mainly for the 12 outlets and surge protection, but
the power savings feature was a minor factor.
I wonder if this is something that might gain popularity? It's the
first of its type that I ever bought...

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 7:05 pm
From: Gary H

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:25:03 -0500, "Charlie Darwin" <cd@evo.net>
wrote:

>"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:6vqu7pFl4f65U1@mid.individual.net...
>>I previously posted about re-wiring my doorbell so it would use electricity
>>only when the button was pressed. I also went through my house and placed
>>everything I could find which was "always on" on a switch or power strip.
>>
>> I replaced power strips which had lights on them with power strips which
>> have no light. I wired switches to all GFCI outlets so I can turn them off
>> when not in use. I have a rooftop TV antenna amplifier which was "always
>> on" and I wired a switch to that.
>>
>> I placed my entertainment center things on 4 individual power strips (no
>> lights) so I could turn on only what I was using. (Like just TV and DVD,
>> or playstation, or satellite TV - don't need to have on components which
>> are not being used.)
>>
>> I placed several power strips on my computer stuff. So just computer on -
>> printer on separate power strip and off when not in use. Everything
>> totally off when not in use.
>>
>> Placed outlet switches on HEPA air cleaners (have always on timers for
>> filter replacement).
>>
>> Placed power strips (no power on light) on bedroom, garage small stereos.
>> Etc.
>>
>> Anyway my electric bill is now $2.50 per month less and will be so for the
>> rest of my life. That's $30 a year or being as my electric bill is now
>> under $30 a month - one month of free electricity!
>>
>
>You could also flush only every other time, grow your own veggies, only wash
>the sheets and towels once a month

Sheets and towels can be washed only when they're stinky.

> and shut off your car engine at red
>lights or when going down hill...
>

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 7:06 pm
From: Gary H

On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 11:32:56 -0600, "HeyBub" <heybub@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

[snip]

>
>Yeah, but it costs you an hour a day to reset all the blinking "12:00"
>things.
>

Use electrical tape to solve that problem.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 8:28 pm
From: Red Green

"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:6vqu7pFl4f65U1@mid.individual.net:

> I previously posted about re-wiring my doorbell so it would use
> electricity only when the button was pressed. I also went through my
> house and placed everything I could find which was "always on" on a
> switch or power strip.
>
> I replaced power strips which had lights on them with power strips
> which have no light. I wired switches to all GFCI outlets so I can
> turn them off when not in use. I have a rooftop TV antenna amplifier
> which was "always on" and I wired a switch to that.
>
> I placed my entertainment center things on 4 individual power strips
> (no lights) so I could turn on only what I was using. (Like just TV
> and DVD, or playstation, or satellite TV - don't need to have on
> components which are not being used.)
>
> I placed several power strips on my computer stuff. So just computer
> on - printer on separate power strip and off when not in use.
> Everything totally off when not in use.
>
> Placed outlet switches on HEPA air cleaners (have always on timers for
> filter replacement).
>
> Placed power strips (no power on light) on bedroom, garage small
> stereos. Etc.
>
> Anyway my electric bill is now $2.50 per month less and will be so for
> the rest of my life. That's $30 a year or being as my electric bill is
> now under $30 a month - one month of free electricity!
>
>

You gotta be a troll or fucking stupid beyond.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 9:17 pm
From: "John Gilmer"

"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:gJXll.7267$EO2.2469@newsfe04.iad...
> Bill wrote:

> Hi,
> My electricity costs 7 cents per KWh locked for 5 years. What if you keep
> powering up/down multiple devices and a surge cause a damage. The repair
> cost may far exceed the 2.00 per month. If I wanted to save electric
> energy my way would be using more efficient devices or minimize the usage
> by careful planning ahead.

What? Are you talking about the "surge" when you first power up something?

Could be.

$30/year for the convenience of having everything ready to go rather than
requiring the hunting down of power strips here and there isn't much.

Seems to me that the "standby" power performance is getting better. I say
than only because stuff in "standby" seems to be running cooler.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Survivalism Retail Style
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/da641b3711ca2726?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 7:56 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 15, 10:50 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Strabo" <str...@flashlight.net> wrote in message
>
> news:FCUll.10686$lk5.9712@newsfe13.iad...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ed Huntress wrote:
> >> "Winston_Smith" <not_r...@bogus.net> wrote in message
> >>news:brffp4tp2cnmgvp0d5sfvk713gdte1re5j@4ax.com...
> >>> "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> <EskWI...@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:gk2ntk$ih9$2@reader1.panix.com...
> >>>>> In misc.survivalism Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>> I wonder if it's possible to simultaneously suffer both deflation and
> >>>>>> inflation?
> >>>>> Winston says Yes.
> >>>> Winston be wrong. You can have inflation and a contracting economy
> >>>> (stagflation), or deflation and a contracting economy (recession), but
> >>>> you
> >>>> can't have aggregate inflation and aggregate deflation at the same
> >>>> time.
> >>> You can have inflation in one area and deflation in another. Esk
> >>> can't understand that.
>
> >>> I'll bet your stocks and the value of your house is deflating.
> >>> I'll bet your grocery bill is inflating.
>
> >> That's why it's best to confine the terms "inflation" and "deflation" to
> >> aggregate, economy-wide effects. It just confuses the issues to mix those
> >> aggregate rises and declines that are related to money-supply or
> >> currency-value issues, or to GDP growth or shrinkage, with the price
> >> increases and declines that occur in different sectors. The latter are
> >> supply/demand issues, even if the demand is purely speculative.
>
> > But there is no "aggregate, economy-wide effects".
>
> Yes there are, and you can measure them with a variety of summary measures,
> ranging from GDP growth rates to currency exchange rates.
>
> > Different parts
> > act in different ways during the same time frame.
>
> Of course. But inflation and deflation are measures of how they're connected
> in a mutually reinforcing way. Employment rates and consumption rates, for
> example. Some sectors are always countercyclical. There are people who make
> their livings picking out which sectors those will be.
>
> But on a macro scale, it matters whether you have aggregate inflation or
> deflation. Once one takes hold in a big way it influences practically every
> sector. And once one or the other is dominant, most sectors start feeding on
> the spiral and forcing it all in the same direction. That's why aggregate
> effects are the key issue: they often dominate the whole economy. Rarely
> does one sector swing an economy around all by itself. People keep trying to
> pin the current situation on a single sector -- housing speculation, or
> financial derivatives -- but it's not that simple. One sector may act as a
> trigger but it's the aggregate consequences that matter.
>
> > Politicians want a
> > simple label to simplify spinning their BS. Same way with ideologies.
> > There is no 'left' or 'right' political spectrum. Either you have
> > rights and power or you do not. I hope the day of the politician is
> > over.
>
> I was with you up until the last sentence. d8-) For the latter, see
> Aristotle, _The Politics_.
>
>
>
> > For example, real estate will have to be priced lower to accommodate
> > fewer buyers and a weakened dollar. There are excepted areas but that
> > will be the tendency. Expect 1960s or earlier house prices within a few
> > years. But don't hold on to dollars expecting to later make a killing
> > because the purchasing power of the dollar will fall.
>
> > In other words gentlemen, we're going back to ca 1957, and you won't
> > be able to take technocracy with you.
>
> The bottom in real estate is replacement value plus land value. Land value
> is very sensitive to the state of the economy, but even more sensitive to
> local supply and demand. Replacement value can get out of wack when there is
> lots of building going on, as there was until recently.
>
> But 1960s prices are far below even replacement value alone. I was selling
> Cape Cods in Lansing, Michigan for $18,000 in 1970, and "colonials" for
> $26,000. That's far below the materials costs plus minimum-wage labor today.
>
> I'm not a betting man but I doubt if house prices will fall in most regions
> of the country by more than another 15%, or possibly 20% tops. That would be
> the "real" bottom, IMO. But the nationwide averages could drop more than
> that, because there are many overbuilt areas where there was lots of
> speculative building but there just aren't going to be any buyers at all,
> unless there is enough growth in local employment to make people able to
> live there again.
>
> BTW, house prices in my town are moving up slowly, but steadily, and only
> took a slight two-month dip in early 2007. This is an area that's fully
> built and what you're seeing is straight supply/demand effects in a mature
> market. There are plenty of such places around the country, but they're not
> the ones you hear about.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I disagree Ed.

Replacement cost will change as material costs drop.

Labor costs will be dropping also.

Supply and demand drive the marketplace.

When there is little demand and oversupply, prices will drop until
demand picks up.

I have seen housing prices drop 60-80% in my lifetime...no reason why
it can't do that again.

1.5 million homes have been foreclosed on in the last year....6
million MORE are expected to be foreclosed on in the next four years.

Housing prices are NOT going to be going up for anyone.

I also point out that the baby boomers are retiring...and need their
home equity to survive retirement.

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 8:13 pm
From: "dcaster@krl.org"

On Feb 16, 3:56 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> I have seen housing prices drop 60-80% in my lifetime...no reason why
> it can't do that again.

Just when did you see housing prices drop 60-80%? I sure do not
remember anything close to that happening.

> I also point out that the baby boomers are retiring...and need their
> home equity to survive retirement.

Why do baby boomers need their house equity to survive retirement? I
am retired and do not need my house equity to survive. I just need to
keep my house so I have a place to live. If the value of my house
went down to zero, it would make no difference in my income.

Dan

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 8:06 pm
From: Jeff

BigDog1 wrote:
> On Feb 12, 6:34 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> <albun...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:4f4e262c-a0ef-4f74-b844-549ac502b5b0@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 11, 8:08 pm, "John A. Weeks III" <j...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <4992f706$0$5057$6c36a...@news.usenetserver.com>,
>>>> info_at_1-script_dot_...@foo.com (spendwize.com) wrote:
>>>>> The problem with buying any of these converters is that you won't
>> truly
>>>>> know how well they work until the conversion goes into effect! I
>> bought
>>>>> one when the coupons first came out and now that the conversion date
>> has
>>>>> been postponed, it'll be well-past the warranty time of a year when it
>>>>> will be put to the test!
>>>> More misinformation. All stations that are going digital have
>>>> had their DTV transmitters up and running for quite some time,
>>>> in fact, as long as 5 years. You converter should work right
>>>> now just as things are. If it don't work now, it isn't going
>>>> to work after the cut-over.
>>>> -john-
>>> And if the stations are already on digital as almost all are, why not
>>> change over sooner rather than later?
>> Because not everyone has a converter.
>
> Why wouldn't someone who needs one, not have it yet? It's not like it
> hasn't been two years or more since this change over was announced.

Well, they weren't available two years ago, even one year ago. Just
some very pricey ATSC tuners in the well over $100 range.

And my understanding is that the later versions, even of the same box,
are better. I suspected that and delayed my order. Some of the early
boxes had severe reliability problems.

It's always a tradeoff with electronic gizmos, they always get
better, and cheaper. When do you buy?

I should have ordered mine sooner, and when I did, the coupons were
back ordered. I did get an ATSC tuner for the computer, long long ago...

Jeff

> These are the same people who don't know Christmas comes on December
> 25th every year; or who waited until the night before a term paper was
> due to start on it. Anyone who's not ready now, isn't likely to be
> ready in June, October or even next year. No reason to delay it for
> those of us who take care of our business.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 8:14 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 12, 11:03 pm, "John A. Weeks III" <j...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
> In article
> <14af3782-ce33-4e6c-aa34-93d3bcf19...@l1g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > DTV is a national train wreck about to happen.
>
> Glory to the luddites. I suppose you said the same thing
> when horse & buggies became obsolete, indoor plumbing was
> invented, and when people started putting ice cubes in
> their drinks. It is the end of the world as we know it.
>
> -john-
>
> --
> ======================================================================
> John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 j...@johnweeks.com
> Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
> ======================================================================

Toot...toot....here comes the train wreck.

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 15 2009 8:18 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 12, 11:43 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 7:42 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> albun...@mailinator.com wrote:
> >>> OhioGuy wrote:
> >>>> We are only located about 4 miles from all of the local TV
> >>>> antennas,
> >>>> but we still have problems now and then with receiving a couple of
> >>>> the channels. (strength levels of between 50 and 60 for them)
>
> >>>> I'm just using a cheap bowtie antenna that I got for 3 bucks from
> >>>> Radio Shack. It works ok most of the time, but it is particularly
> >>>> annoying for my kids, because the PBS station they want to watch
> >>>> has trouble about one day a week.
>
> >>>> Can anyone recommend another small antenna for $10 or less that I
> >>>> can try that might do a slightly better job of pulling in these
> >>>> stations?
> >>> What you seem to need is an antenna booster, which is an
> >>> amplified antenna. They run about $30. If you have not switched
> >>> to digital yet, you will need this based on what you report.
>
> >> Nope, hordes have found that their less than perfect results
> >> with analog TV are fixed with the change to digital TV.
>
> >>> Digital is all or nothing. If the signal is not sufficient, you get
> >>> nothing.
>
> >> Thats just plain wrong. You can still get a result that isnt perfect
> >> with digital,
> >> its just that the imperfections are different, dropouts instead of
> >> snow and ghosts.
>
> >>> If it's sufficient, the picture looks perfect.
>
> >> And if its less that sufficient, you get a perfect result most of
> >> the time with a few
> >> dropouts, usually at times of maximum loss of signal like in an
> >> intense thunderstorm etc.
>
> >>> Your signal depends on the pattern of radiated power from each
> >>> station. These patterns are changing with the digital too. You will
> >>> not go wrong by spending a few bucks on an amplifier.
>
> >> You can actually, you can see a situation where with digital you get
> >> interference effects in the amp.
>
> >>> PS. PBS stations often have faulty equipment due to finances.
>
> >> No faulty so much as they tend to use lower power transmitters due
> >> to finances.
>
> >>> They may be getting ready to drop the analog signal and scrap the
> >>> equipment
> >>> that needs maintenance. So far, about 25% of stations have chosen to
> >>> ignore Obama's wishes and drop analog on the 17th as originally
> >>> schedules.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > More people are having problems with digital than with their current analog.
>
> Wrong, as always.
>
> > Bad voodoo coming.
>
> Nope, significant improvements in their TV are coming instead.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Nope...many televisions receiving digital signals are prosessed with
evil spirits that cause the pictures to pixelate, freeze and break up.

And the audio is out of sync with the lips of the little people in the
glowing box.

Meanwhile analog receptions works perfectly with no demons.

Is an exocist in the house?

TMT