Frugal Living: Dec 5, 2008

Friday, December 5, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: the professional AAAAA+++ replica products suppliers specializing on
wholeselling and reselling all kind of brand watches.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f3bb9e621ec20f8c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:47 am
From: replicawatches2009@yahoo.cn

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More detailed photos of the new wat ches:
http://picasaweb google com/86wat ches

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Kitchen Tip
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b377d4bf277b66f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 7:13 am
From: Evelyn Leeper

Seerialmom wrote:
> On Dec 4, 9:34 am, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Seerialmom wrote:
>>> On Dec 3, 1:29 pm, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>> Go to the dollar store and buy however many iced tea spoons one can get
>>>> for a dollar these days. The long handles and small tips are perfect
>>>> for getting the last bits out of jars and cans, particularly tall ones.
>>>> For that matter, when you are using a can of, say, tomato sauce, and you
>>>> are also adding water to what you're cooking, put the water in the can
>>>> and swish it around to get all the sauce out.
>>>> You may not save lots of money, but you will get better value for your
>>>> money.
>>> I just use a butter knife; does the same thing. One other trick I use
>>> with some sauces is to take some of the cooked noodles while they're
>>> hot and drop them into the can, swish them around to catch some of the
>>> left over bits.
>> Maybe I use taller jars--certainly getting olives and capers out of tall
>> jars is easier with the added length of the iced tea spoon. but for
>> stuff like mayonnaise, a butter knife or spatula should work as well.
>>
>> (I see that Miracle Whip now has a wider mouth jar to let you get the
>> end bit out--their squeeze jar wasted *way* too much!)
>>
>> --
>> Evelyn C. Leeper
>> Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.
>
> They probably do that by design figuring "most" people won't try to
> get the last bits out and will buy a new jar. Now along the lines of
> what you use the spoon for, you might want to keep your eyes open for
> those handy "lifter" containers Tupperware has. I have a couple from
> years ago, even though I rarely buy/use pickles, I did when the kids
> were younger.
>
> Good picture of the "Pick-a-Deli" here:
>
> http://davidlevine.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/pickledeggs.jpg
>

Looks like the pasta/corn cookers I've seen. I have one of those, but
the size of it means I don't use it very much, as it takes *forever* to
boil that amount of water! It is handy for people who have problems
lifting heavy pots though, since one can lift just the pasta/whatever
without the water and then deal with the pot of water later.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 9:18 am
From: Seerialmom

On Dec 5, 7:13 am, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Seerialmom wrote:
> > On Dec 4, 9:34 am, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> Seerialmom wrote:
> >>> On Dec 3, 1:29 pm, Evelyn Leeper <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >>>> Go to the dollar store and buy however many iced tea spoons one can get
> >>>> for a dollar these days. The long handles and small tips are perfect
> >>>> for getting the last bits out of jars and cans, particularly tall ones.
> >>>> For that matter, when you are using a can of, say, tomato sauce, and you
> >>>> are also adding water to what you're cooking, put the water in the can
> >>>> and swish it around to get all the sauce out.
> >>>> You may not save lots of money, but you will get better value for your
> >>>> money.
> >>> I just use a butter knife; does the same thing. One other trick I use
> >>> with some sauces is to take some of the cooked noodles while they're
> >>> hot and drop them into the can, swish them around to catch some of the
> >>> left over bits.
> >> Maybe I use taller jars--certainly getting olives and capers out of tall
> >> jars is easier with the added length of the iced tea spoon. but for
> >> stuff like mayonnaise, a butter knife or spatula should work as well.
>
> >> (I see that Miracle Whip now has a wider mouth jar to let you get the
> >> end bit out--their squeeze jar wasted *way* too much!)
>
> >> --
> >> Evelyn C. Leeper
> >> Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.
>
> > They probably do that by design figuring "most" people won't try to
> > get the last bits out and will buy a new jar. Now along the lines of
> > what you use the spoon for, you might want to keep your eyes open for
> > those handy "lifter" containers Tupperware has. I have a couple from
> > years ago, even though I rarely buy/use pickles, I did when the kids
> > were younger.
>
> > Good picture of the "Pick-a-Deli" here:
>
> >http://davidlevine.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/pickledeggs.jpg
>
> Looks like the pasta/corn cookers I've seen. I have one of those, but
> the size of it means I don't use it very much, as it takes *forever* to
> boil that amount of water! It is handy for people who have problems
> lifting heavy pots though, since one can lift just the pasta/whatever
> without the water and then deal with the pot of water later.
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

It's just a small plastic canister with an insert that you "lift" to
get the pickles or olives? Those pasta cookers they show on TV are
silly :p

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Folks, this is a real depression, protect your assets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cb1cc803cf7130ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 7:35 am
From: WBYeats@Ireland.com

On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:07:17 -0500, "Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:

>> >
>> >I would tell him to balance the budget, no matter what it takes. And to
>> >decrease taxes by at least 50% per year, over the next few years.
>> >
>> >Failure to do those two things will prolong the depression. DOING those
>two
>> >things might shorten it. But failing to do those two things will
>definitely
>> >prolong the depression.
>> >
>> >Oh, and before some idiot screams "but it's only a recession", keep in
>mind
>> >that the actual unemployment rate right now is 16-17%, which is one
>STRONG
>> >indicator of a depression. So why is the "official" unemployment rate
>> >around 7%? Because that figure no longer counts discouraged
>workers...but
>> >discouraged workers are no less unemployed. In other words, if we were
>> >measuring unemployment in the 1970s, the figure would be about 17% right
>> >now. But as the formula has been fudged since then, the official figures
>> >for unemployment are very misleading. We are in a depression, a bad
>> >ne. -Dave
>>
>> Thank you Hoobert Heever. It worked so well the first time. Cut taxes
>> and balance the budget during a Depression? Would you like to tell us
>> how that would work?
>
>Well trillions in business bailouts, using money borrowed from China is
>definitely a step in the wrong direction.

Absolutely.

>> The tax base has gone to hell for the near future

>So let's increase spending and increase taxes. That will be soooooooo
>helpful, I'm sure.

I didn't say anything about increasing taxes. But if you're going to
balance the budget with less receipts, more unemployed, more use of
public programs, etc; where exactly do you think the cuts will come
from? Next years deficit is higher than the entire defense budget.
Hell, next year's REAL deficit is bigger than any total budget in US
history.

>> One other comment - your numbers for the "real" unemployed
>> might just be on the low side.

>Ya think? My best guess is close to 25% and rising quickly. But People who
>know better than me tag the number at about 17% unemployed in the U.S. right
>now.

I think! Your best guess might be right by early next year. The Nat'l
Ass'n of Retailers believe that over 78,000 retail businesses will go
under in the first quarter next year putting another 600,000 out of
work. If only one of the auto manufacturers goes out, that would add
at least another 200-400,000 to the jobless roles. Add in the layoffs
occurring before the end of the year and/or planned for early '09, and
you could be adding another 1-1.5 million to the unemployment rolls by
the beginning of the 2nd Quarter in 2009. Now where would all those
budget cuts come from? The world's governments (except China and
Japan) will print money like there's no tomorrow.

WB Yeats

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 9:32 am
From: Jeff

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
> In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>
>> With a budget imbalance of trillions, how do you propose increasing spending
>> without increasing taxes? Just print more money?
>
> Generally, spending is increased without increasing income by borrowing
> money.
>
>
We've borrowed 5 T or so in the last 8 years. There's a very good
reason to borrow now to keep the economy going. The real question is why
did W do it when times were better? Probably for the same reason that
Reagan did, because the Republican rabble have no problem with borrowing
money, they only have trouble paying it back. Time and again, it's been
a Democrat that had to fix that.

Jeff

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 9:35 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

It's about protecting assets, owning the right assets, and living within
your means. Not really that hard to do (except for the USA government)

http://cheapogroovo.vox.com

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 10:02 am
From: "Rod Speed"

strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote:
> EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
>> In misc.survivalism Dan <dnadan56@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>>> Socialism is about a hell of a lot more than JUST nationalizing
>>>> industrys.
>>
>>> No, it is not.
>>
>> It depends if you use words to mean what they mean, or if you use
>> them like NeoCons do.
>>
>> For example, they claim that advocacy of a progressive income tax is
>> socialist, making that good ole Republican Rough Rider, Teddy
>> Roosevelt, a socialist. And they say that the Earned Income Credit
>> is a Socialist Policy, ignoring that it was signed into law by that
>> Goddamned Pinko Commie-Lover Ronald Reagan.
>>
>> High marginal tax rates are practically the trademark of socialism,
>> so they say, making the era of the 1950's the high water mark of our
>> complicity with those Evil Marxist Bastards.
>>
>> Words mean anything that they want them to mean.
>>
>
> The meanings of some words, like 'liberal' and 'conservative' for
> example, are easily changed due to the ambiguous nature of the words.
> Others, like 'socialism' and 'fascism', will always retain their
> essential elements.
>
> Why is that?
>
> Socialism is a descriptive term as well as an ideological methodology.
> The former minimizes distortion of the words meaning.
>
> If an act is socialistic in function, it doesn't matter what political
> party is associated with the act. Taxes of any kind are socialistic
> because taxes, by design or not, steer or influence the behavior and
> attitudes of society. Rather than leaving individuals and their
> society free, government dictates such as taxes, directly intervene and
> *socialize* or change society. This is a degree of socialism.
>
> After the SCOTUS struck down the income tax in 1895 as
> unconstitutional, both parties stayed away from further attempts. Even still,
> individuals such as Teddy Roosevelt went against Republican policy and promoted
> the idea to Congress. This in part resulted in the income tax amendment of
> 1913.
>
> The US is a socialistic nation galloping towards the ideology of central command and control.
>
> Once this optimal level is attained, oppression will rapidly increase
> fostering a physical revolution and overthrow of government.

How odd that its actually the last modern first world country to have enough
of a clue to have a decent universal national health care funding system.

We wont be seeing any overthrow of govt, you watch.

That hasnt happened in even a single first world country for centurys now.

The world's moved on, fools like you havent even noticed.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 10:05 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
> > In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
> >
> >> With a budget imbalance of trillions, how do you propose increasing spending
> >> without increasing taxes? Just print more money?
> >
> > Generally, spending is increased without increasing income by borrowing
> > money.
> >
> >
> We've borrowed 5 T or so in the last 8 years. There's a very good
> reason to borrow now to keep the economy going. The real question is why
> did W do it when times were better?

He's pro-big government. That is typical of today's right wing.

Probably for the same reason that
> Reagan did, because the Republican rabble have no problem with borrowing
> money, they only have trouble paying it back. Time and again, it's been
> a Democrat that had to fix that.

Borrow and spend is the modern Pug's first inclination.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

==============================================================================
TOPIC: supreme court to determine obama presidential eligibilty
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/546a49e0512f561c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 7:42 am
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 06:46:48 -0500, "Daniel T."
<daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:

>"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "JonL" <JonL@Mayday.com> wrote:
>
>> > Announcements in the paper can be done by anyone. Often 1-2 weeks after
>> > birth.
>>
>> and the newspapers just accept what's sent in. no fact checking there.
>> newspaper article is absolutely no proof of anything.
>
>But if there were no announcement, then you all would be yelling "Why no
>announcement? That proves he was born elsewhere!" Just more fishing.
>
>The real question is why did anybody put the announcement in the paper
>in the first place if it wasn't true? Where they expecting that Barack
>would one day run for president?
>
>How deep is this conspiracy?

As deep as it takes to keep it going.
Pure bullshit. Lots of it out there.

--Vic

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 9:33 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

In article <y4DZk.2657$us6.1370@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
derjda@hotmail.com says...
> it's all over the blogs.
>
> http://dailykenoshan.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=63&topic=53329.msg57474;topicseen
>
> http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm
>
> overnight fedex supreme court w/ your concerns; only way to reach them:
>
> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82449
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=supreme+court+obama+eligibility&aq=1&oq=supreme+court+obama+eli
>
>
this is a frugal blog - where is claims casino now?

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 11:21 am
From: Dennis

On Fri, 05 Dec 2008 00:50:21 -0500, Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net>
wrote:

>In article <olHZk.2660$QX3.1886@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>,
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:daniel_t-857148.20182503122008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
>> > "Dave" <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "max" <betatron@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:betatron-D48844.16144403122008@news.ftupet.com...
>> >> > In article <y4DZk.2657$us6.1370@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
>> >> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > it's all over the blogs.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> http://dailykenoshan.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=63&topic=53329.msg
>> >> 5
>> >> 74
>> >> > > 74;topicseen
>> >> > >
>> >> > > http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm
>> >> > >
>> >> > > overnight fedex supreme court w/ your concerns; only way to reach
>> >> > > them:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82449
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=supreme+court+obama+eligibility&aq=1&o
>> >> q
>> >> =s
>> >> > > upreme+court+obama+eli
>> >> >
>> >> > dipshit.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> What? This is a real court case that the supremes are going to have to
>> >> rule
>> >> on. I for one am interested in what the supremes have to say on the
>> >> atter. -Dave
>> >
>> > They already dismissed it.
>>
>> i think that was a federal judge. i don't think they're looking at this
>> until friday
>
>It was Justice Souter. Here's the link ...
>
>http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08a391.htm
>
>end of story.

Um, no:

CHICAGO The U.S. Supreme Court will consider Friday whether to take
up a lawsuit challenging President-elect Barack Obama's U.S.
citizenship, a continuation of a New Jersey case embraced by some
opponents of Obama's election.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6145787.html

Dennis (evil)
--
What government gives, it must first take away.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:26 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Daniel T." <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:daniel_t-BD8CA3.06464805122008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "JonL" <JonL@Mayday.com> wrote:
>
>> > Announcements in the paper can be done by anyone. Often 1-2 weeks after
>> > birth.
>>
>> and the newspapers just accept what's sent in. no fact checking there.
>> newspaper article is absolutely no proof of anything.
>
> But if there were no announcement, then you all would be yelling "Why no
> announcement? That proves he was born elsewhere!" Just more fishing.

no. not everyone puts a birth announcement in the papers. they mean and
prove
zip.
>
> The real question is why did anybody put the announcement in the paper
> in the first place if it wasn't true? Where they expecting that Barack
> would one day run for president?

put it in upon return to hawaii just to let friends there know? no need to
expect
bo to do anything spectacular. just a late announcement. then again,
maybe
she wanted "proof" that he was u.s. born. nice to be even if not running
for prez.
>
> How deep is this conspiracy?
>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:27 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Cheapo Groovo" <ccsj@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.23a321cf804f5aa8989a01@news.wowway.com...
> In article <y4DZk.2657$us6.1370@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>,
> derjda@hotmail.com says...
>> it's all over the blogs.
>>
>> http://dailykenoshan.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=63&topic=53329.msg57474;topicseen
>>
>> http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm
>>
>> overnight fedex supreme court w/ your concerns; only way to reach them:
>>
>> http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82449
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=supreme+court+obama+eligibility&aq=1&oq=supreme+court+obama+eli
>>
>>
> this is a frugal blog - where is claims casino now?

it went to hell a long time ago. this is the stuff that's being discussed.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ccleaner
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c02b82a17e67ba79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 7:42 am
From: MSfortune@mcpmail.com

clams_casino wrote:
> Is anyone familiar with http://www.ccleaner.com ?
>
> Any concerns? I'm always hesitant about free software, but someone
> suggested this one.

Where have you been?
CCleaner has been around for years and I've been using it for years.
It does a tremendous job and has many options. I use it before
shutting down. I get rid of everything from the current session.
Otherwise you can end up with temporary files that can be
"troublesome" when you restart your computer. I bet jaquele even uses
it.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 9:48 am
From: Dave Garland

clams_casino wrote:
> Is anyone familiar with http://www.ccleaner.com ?
>
> Any concerns? I'm always hesitant about free software, but someone
> suggested this one.

CCleaner is great, far better than MS's Diskcleaner. Just pay
attention to the options (always a good recommendation with any
software that's new to you), so you don't clean up things (like
cookies) that you maybe wanted to keep.

(Some) free software is great (and certainly frugal). If you have
hesitations, google for recommendations and stick with the stuff that
people give praise to.

Dave

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:27 pm
From: "TKM"

"Dave Garland" <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote in message
news:TLidneoD0NfA9KTUnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@posted.visi...
> clams_casino wrote:
>> Is anyone familiar with http://www.ccleaner.com ?
>>
>> Any concerns? I'm always hesitant about free software, but someone
>> suggested this one.
>
> CCleaner is great, far better than MS's Diskcleaner. Just pay
> attention to the options (always a good recommendation with any
> software that's new to you), so you don't clean up things (like
> cookies) that you maybe wanted to keep.
>
> (Some) free software is great (and certainly frugal). If you have
> hesitations, google for recommendations and stick with the stuff that
> people give praise to.
>
> Dave

Good advice from Dave. I used it after a recommendation from the tech group
at Smart Computing. No problems at all. But it does find all of the
cookies on your browser(s) and they're gone if you click too quickly.

TKM

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are name-brand low-energy fluorescent "Green" bulbs any brighter than
store brand?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/16514de0eabde21c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 7:55 am
From: Mark Lloyd

On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 01:36:32 +0000 (UTC), don@manx.misty.com (Don
Klipstein) wrote:

>In <gh8v36$obi$2@usenet01.srv.cis.pitt.edu>, GregS wrote in part:
>>In article <91ufj4l4tpeujlsnfdel1bcds4tu0t3uj3@4ax.com>, Mark Lloyd
><mlloyd@xmail.com10.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>I have used a lot of CFLs (of different brands) and have not had any
>>>that take more than a second or two to come on, until recently (these
>>>are flood lights).
>>
>>Mine are also floodlights. In the cold they first turn on with a dark
>>purple, Deep Purple ?
>
> CFLs with outer bulbs have a general trend of starting dimmer and taking
>longer to warm up than ones with bare tubing.

Seems true here. All the plain CFLs I've used would warm up in a
couple of seconds. The floodlights (look like regular CFLs inside
enclosures) take awhile.

> The tubing in ones with
>outer bulbs is formulated to work best at a higher temperature.
>
>>Seems like they don't have it down quite right as far as light concentration
>>for more of a spot.
>
> The light from the reflector is less concentrated, because the initial
>source (spiral of tubing) is larger and less intense than a filament.
>
> - Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
--
20 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: order glasses by mail
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ccf50661d635c8c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 8:35 am
From: itsjoannotjoann@webtv.net

On Dec 5, 1:17 am, "tommyone" <tommy...@lavabit.com> wrote:
> It was mentioned in this newsgroup a while back on how to order eyeglasses
> over the internet.could some body repeat the url's. I have the prescription.
> much appreciated.
>
> --
> try this
> [url=http://www.fallensword.com/?ref=1357146][img]http://66.7.192.165/banners/full_banner2.

>
>
Can you not do a search for the URL's?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 10:39 am
From: The Real Bev

tommyone wrote:

> It was mentioned in this newsgroup a while back on how to order eyeglasses
> over the internet.could some body repeat the url's. I have the prescription.
> much appreciated.

http://zennioptical.com/cart/home.php

--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------------
Q: How many lawyers does it take to grease a combine?
A: One, if you feed him in real slow.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: online bill paying gets riskier
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/07de970c9e49f007?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 9:34 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

In article <betatron-F05186.05190005122008@news.ftupet.com>,
betatron@gmail.com says...
> Hackers are starting to target online payment services. Included is a
> link to a story about CheckFree.com, whose domain name got hijacked.
> Not too much damage done, simply because of the short exposure before
> the problem was corrected. If the hackers had redirected to a spoof
> page instead of a blank page, the exploit wold likely have gone on far
> longer before being detected.
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/5rxndj> or
>
> <http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/12/hackers_hijacked_la
> rge_e-bill.html?hpid=sec-tech>
>
> .max
>
>
will obama stop this activity?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doorbell always uses electricity!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3198294a289e9e57?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 10:25 am
From: TD

so, maybe it should use water?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Govt. wimps rush to bailout banks, autos. How about getting rid of up
to 20 million illegal alien leeches?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/789b5435a63eb0a9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 11:08 am
From: "Rod Speed"

wismel@yahoo.com wrote:

> A great economic boom would ensue.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant bigotted fantasys.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 2:01 pm
From: Anonymous

In article <6ptchrF9c8abU1@mid.individual.net>
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> wismel@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > A great economic boom would ensue.
>
> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed pig ignorant bigotted fantasys.

Get rid of an equal number of lazy leeching niggers and the
problem would be solved.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need Opinions on Ordering Magazine Subscriptions Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f670bbbba293e2c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:59 pm
From: Scruff

Hi,

Has anyone had any luck (good OR bad) ordering cheap magazines online,
lately? If so, could you suggest a reliable site? I was going to
give magazine subscriptions as gifts this Christmas, but I don't want
the hassle of them not showing up.

I saw a couple of sites with pretty cheap prices (maybe too cheap?)--
anyone had any experience with these?

MagazineDealsNow.com
BestDealMagazines.com
DeltaMagazines.com

Thanks a bunch for any advice you can offer.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:27 pm
From: "TKM"

"Scruff" <Scruffy892@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ad8745a4-a72c-4124-a719-af7108d13197@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone had any luck (good OR bad) ordering cheap magazines online,
> lately? If so, could you suggest a reliable site? I was going to
> give magazine subscriptions as gifts this Christmas, but I don't want
> the hassle of them not showing up.
>
> I saw a couple of sites with pretty cheap prices (maybe too cheap?)--
> anyone had any experience with these?
>
> MagazineDealsNow.com
> BestDealMagazines.com
> DeltaMagazines.com
>
> Thanks a bunch for any advice you can offer.

I've used University Subscription Service for the last 20 years or so and
see that they have an online site at:
http://www.ussmag.com/index.asp The prices have always been good and even
better if you qualify for the educational discount. Never had a problem
with billing, ordering or delivery.

TKM

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 4 2008 11:17 pm
From: "tommyone"

It was mentioned in this newsgroup a while back on how to order eyeglasses
over the internet.could some body repeat the url's. I have the prescription.
much appreciated.

--
try this
[url=http://www.fallensword.com/?ref=1357146][img]http://66.7.192.165/banners/full_banner2.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ¡SI se puede!: U.S. jobless at 26-year high while 25+ million illegal
aliens continue to 'take, take, take!'
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/165362b61150e6e1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 12:43 am
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Dec 4, 9:02 pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"
<guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> Jobless rolls at 26-year peak, factory orders drop
>
> Reuters
> Thursday, December 4, 2008
>
> URL:http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Number-of-workers-on-jobless-rb-1374590...
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What Would the U.S.A.'s Founding Fathers Do?
>
> Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
> does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
> they draw their gains.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
> corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
> a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and
> silent we may be led, like sheep, to the slaughter.
> -- George Washington
>
> If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
> there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
> original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
> forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
> arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
> except in their courage and despair ...
>
> The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
> proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
> than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
> to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> -- Alexander Hamilton
>
> We in America do not have government by the majority.
> We have government by the majority who participate.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
> conscience to remain silent.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
> the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
> depositories.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
> keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
> against tyranny in government.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
> let us show them we can fight like men also.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going
> to do.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the
> Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
> delineate and define you.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> liberties than standing armies.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government
> those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
> perverted it into tyranny.
> -- Thomas Jefferson

Then we are entertained by the bloated old farts listening to business
"leaders" beg
for federal money. Take this economy down to a level when illegal
aliens are frog-marched
to the border.

mitch

http://www.wvwnews.net/ Western Voices World News

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:08 am
From: strabo

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote:
> In misc.survivalism Dan <dnadan56@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>
>>> Socialism is about a hell of a lot more than JUST nationalizing industrys.
>
>> No, it is not.
>
> It depends if you use words to mean what they mean, or if you use them
> like NeoCons do.
>
> For example, they claim that advocacy of a progressive income tax is
> socialist, making that good ole Republican Rough Rider, Teddy Roosevelt, a
> socialist. And they say that the Earned Income Credit is a Socialist
> Policy, ignoring that it was signed into law by that Goddamned Pinko
> Commie-Lover Ronald Reagan.
>
> High marginal tax rates are practically the trademark of socialism, so
> they say, making the era of the 1950's the high water mark of our
> complicity with those Evil Marxist Bastards.
>
> Words mean anything that they want them to mean.
>

The meanings of some words, like 'liberal' and 'conservative' for
example, are easily changed due to the ambiguous nature of the words.
Others, like 'socialism' and 'fascism', will always retain their
essential elements.

Why is that?

Socialism is a descriptive term as well as an ideological methodology.
The former minimizes distortion of the words meaning.

If an act is socialistic in function, it doesn't matter what political
party is associated with the act. Taxes of any kind are socialistic
because taxes, by design or not, steer or influence the behavior and
attitudes of society. Rather than leaving individuals and their society
free, government dictates such as taxes, directly intervene and
*socialize* or change society. This is a degree of socialism.

After the SCOTUS struck down the income tax in 1895 as unconstitutional,
both parties stayed away from further attempts. Even still, individuals
such as Teddy Roosevelt went against Republican policy and promoted the
idea to Congress. This in part resulted in the income tax amendment of
1913.

The US is a socialistic nation galloping towards the ideology of central
command and control.

Once this optimal level is attained, oppression will rapidly increase
fostering a physical revolution and overthrow of government.

----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:14 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>Hint: The economy always does better under Democrat stewardship. It is
>>Republican policies that seem to lead to economic chaos.
>>
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>
>OMG, you could not possibly be more wrong. You are exactly 180 degrees
>removed from reality. Congratulations. I think? -Dave
>
>
>
>

Hmm - for start, the stock market has historically resulted in over
twice the returns under Democrat vs. Republican presidents.

Then of course, there's the general economy which has also historically
done much better under Democratic control.

About the only gains under Republican leadership has been excessive debt
/ borrowing.

Dave, you really need to get with it. You are totally out of touch
with reality.

Or are you simply a troll?

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:17 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

><EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com> wrote in message
>news:gh7cbj$9q3$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
>
>>In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>While we're all happily employed (yeah right) building roads and
>>>
>>>
>bridges,
>
>
>>>our tax rates are sky-high, and employers (private employers) are
>>>
>>>
>leaving
>
>
>>>the country in droves.
>>>
>>>
>>Nothing need be so black and white.
>>
>>
>
>Well let's hope not. But nobody with a brain imagines that higher taxes and
>unskilled workers building roads and bridges is going to increase
>non-government employment. -Dave
>
>
>
>
Why / how would unskilled workers be utilized for bridge and road work?

Hint - the advantage of a national bridge / roads work program would be
to promote US based jobs vs. the dumb Bush approach of borrowing money
from China to hand out so the US could use that money to buy
......... goods from China.

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:23 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>"clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>news:4WPZk.4616$qp2.4026@newsfe25.iad...
>
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Holy SHIT! You want the 3 or 4 remaining employers in the U.S. to be
>>>
>>>
>more
>
>
>>>efficient? How do you figure that is going to help?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Any explanation why Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Nissan etc
>>and now Volkswagen built production plants in the US?
>>
>>
>
>Do you have any idea how much it costs to ship those vehicles in from
>thousands of miles away? Building the plants here allowed all those foreign
>badges to become even more competitive.
>

Hmm - One day you complain about all the manufacturing going overseas
and the next day you point out the overseas companies are building
plants in the US to save money / be competitive.

It's becoming quite difficult keeping up with your contradictions.

>NOTE though, before you answer...
>the wages paid in those foreign owned U.S. auto plants is about half what
>similar workers at GM, Chrysler and Ford earn. If the wages were much
>higher, those plants would leave the U.S. again. -Dave
>
>
>
>
Actually, the hours wages before benefits are only marginally higher for
the UAW workers. It's the over generous benefits & 95% pay for time
not worked that's killing the domestic three - along with a poor, but
well earned reputation for building poor quality vehicles over the years.

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:26 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>Now I'm really confused. You condemn taxes, yet you support Palin
>>who's sole means to govern is by taxing oil company profits and
>>redistributing the bounty as welfare checks to all AK residents.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Yes, you are confused. AK has a unique arrangement with the oil companies.
>It started probably before Sarah was even born. But I'd have to
>double-check that, to confirm that Sarah wasn't born yet. -Dave
>
>
>
>
So which is it? Do you believe government should balance it's books
by taxing companies to the maximum (i.e.. Palin's method of taxing oil
company profits)? Or reducing taxes on corporations?

You go back and forth so often, it's hard to follow.

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:28 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>>Dan - I take it you believe our government can more efficiently create
>>>
>>>
>jobs
>
>
>>>by raising taxes and forcing employers out of the country? Do
>>>
>>>
>tell...-Dave
>
>
>>Funny, I never mentioned either of those options. But look at what
>>Bush's tax cuts have wrought.
>>
>>
>
>17% unemployment that is miscounted (ahem) as 7%. You can blame that on
>Bush in your own fantasy world. But imagine where we would be without the
>tax cuts. It may be hard for a liberal to imagine, but things would be even
>worse!!!
>
>
>

I've read that some 15% still believe GW has done a favorable job, but
I've also read that some 15% believe UFOs are a major threat to the US.

I've starting to believe you fall into both categories.

Or are you simply a troll?

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:29 am
From: clams_casino

Dave wrote:

>>The federal government isn't your family. Not even close. Your
>>simplistic notions don't model macroeconomics. Things get worse instead
>>of better if the federal government shuts down spending in a recession.
>>
>>
>>
>
>If you think there is a GOOD way out of this mess without raising taxes, I'm
>all ears. -Dave
>
>
>
>
So now you want to raise taxes. Yesterday it was reduce taxes.

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:42 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
> > Hint: The economy always does better under Democrat stewardship. It is
> > Republican policies that seem to lead to economic chaos.
> >
> > Jeff

> OMG, you could not possibly be more wrong. You are exactly 180 degrees
> removed from reality. Congratulations. I think? -Dave

In the post-carter years, he is correct.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:47 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:

> > > While we're all happily employed (yeah right) building roads and
> bridges,
> > > our tax rates are sky-high, and employers (private employers) are
> leaving
> > > the country in droves.
> >
> > Nothing need be so black and white.

> Well let's hope not. But nobody with a brain imagines that higher taxes and
> unskilled workers building roads and bridges is going to increase
> non-government employment. -Dave

What if those roads and bridges make it cheaper to get goods to market
and people into their factories and office parks?

Why wouldn't that increase efficiency? What if the rail systems were
modernized? What if people could drive 5 miles to a depot and then ride
in comfort to a central location?

Imagine if every business were in locations beset by traffic jams,
compared with easy direct access for workers and egress for finished
goods?

How can wise infrastructure investments fail to help foster business
development?

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:02 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Reduced taxes leaves the consumer with more of his (her) own money.

Well, Duh. That hardly constitutes an analysis of the effects of deficit
spending on employment and economic growth, unless one starts with the
proposition that all government spending constitutes wasted resources.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:04 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:
> >
> > The federal government isn't your family. Not even close. Your
> > simplistic notions don't model macroeconomics. Things get worse instead
> > of better if the federal government shuts down spending in a recession.
> >

> If you think there is a GOOD way out of this mess without raising taxes, I'm
> all ears. -Dave

Keynes suggested that deficit spending is appropriate during recessions to
spur the economy. Reagan endorsed that view (but kept it up during the
ensuing expansion).

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:08 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism Dave <noway1@noway2.not> wrote:

> With a budget imbalance of trillions, how do you propose increasing spending
> without increasing taxes? Just print more money?

Generally, spending is increased without increasing income by borrowing
money.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:12 am
From: EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com

In misc.survivalism strabo <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote:

> If an act is socialistic in function, it doesn't matter what political
> party is associated with the act. Taxes of any kind are socialistic
> because taxes, by design or not, steer or influence the behavior and
> attitudes of society.

By that line of thinking, all laws are socialist. You are being overly
broad in your definition.

Rather than leaving individuals and their society
> free, government dictates such as taxes, directly intervene and
> *socialize* or change society. This is a degree of socialism.

Again, all laws have that function.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 6:17 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Yeah, but when I was a baby, Mom thought the dimple on my butt was cute. I'm
sure Alan Greenspan cares.... NOT!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6prsfaF9a428U1@mid.individual.net...
Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote

> The US Government is solidly in debt.

You quite sure you aint one of those rocket scientist fellas ?

> I hope you don't think they have the funds to bail out depositors.

They'll just go into debt more if they need to, just like they have with the
bailouts.

> And supposing they do try to bail out depositors.
> That just takes more of YOUR money by taxes.

Irrelevant to whether you need to use a safe bank.

> I don't trust FDIC any more than I trust the government to have a
> "surplus".

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What you might or might not trust in spades.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dissolution of Israel, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.grishenkoff.com/
Israel.html)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fe2bd7bda3dfe136?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:24 am
From: Prime Minister of the Kingdom of God Serge Grishenkoff

Dissolution of Israel, effective as of 08.08.08 (www.grishenkoff.com/
Israel.html)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wonderful!!!!good news!!! luxury Products 8-35USD at www.cicigogo.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/962d28522a6291f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 1:25 am
From: cicitrade04@yahoo.cn

hi
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Accessory(world famous brand)
1) Top quality, reasonable price, safe shipping, and best service
2) Sport shoes for men, women and kids with all sizes available
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4) The material and size can be required to make in accordance with
customers' requests

Price :8-35usd 6-30EURO 5-30Pounds

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 11C 12C 12.5C 13C 1Y 1.5Y 2.5Y 3Y
EUR:28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

Footwear
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Apparel
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Handbags
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Jeans&Pants
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Accessory
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MSN:air jordan
Building Material Market, Goutou Denizen Committee, XiaChen Office
Putian City Chengxiang District CiCi Trade Co., Ltd

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:19 am
From: max

Hackers are starting to target online payment services. Included is a
link to a story about CheckFree.com, whose domain name got hijacked.
Not too much damage done, simply because of the short exposure before
the problem was corrected. If the hackers had redirected to a spoof
page instead of a blank page, the exploit wold likely have gone on far
longer before being detected.

<http://tinyurl.com/5rxndj> or

<http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/12/hackers_hijacked_la
rge_e-bill.html?hpid=sec-tech>

.max

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: useing a curved pot with an induction heater?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8510c23808cd8a87?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:21 am
From: "Tim Downie"

Andy Dingley wrote:
> On 3 Dec, 17:32, "john zeiss" <blues...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> We are thinking of buying one of those table 'induction' heaters to
>> cook a Japanese type of vegetable meal actually on the dining table.
>
> You need a closely fitting base, within 1/4" or so (or 1/2" at most),
> depending on the layout of the heater coils. Otherwise the field
> doesn't couple well into the pot and apparent power will be pitiful.
> Legs certainly won't help (unless the heater can sit between them).

Speaking of induction hobs, I see Lidl are doing a small 2 kW countertop one
from next Thursday for £29.99. (I would offer a link but the Lidl site
seems broken at the moment. Asks for a postcode but keeps returning to the
same page. May mean that we're not getting them in our town).

Must admit I'm quite tempted (if available) although I'm not sure what I
would do with it. ;-)

Tim

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 3:46 am
From: "Daniel T."

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "JonL" <JonL@Mayday.com> wrote:

> > Announcements in the paper can be done by anyone. Often 1-2 weeks after
> > birth.
>
> and the newspapers just accept what's sent in. no fact checking there.
> newspaper article is absolutely no proof of anything.

But if there were no announcement, then you all would be yelling "Why no
announcement? That proves he was born elsewhere!" Just more fishing.

The real question is why did anybody put the announcement in the paper
in the first place if it wasn't true? Where they expecting that Barack
would one day run for president?

How deep is this conspiracy?

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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 5 2008 5:54 am
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Friday, December 5, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest