Frugal Living: Sep 14, 2008

Sunday, September 14, 2008

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning: Some stores are selling old tires AS NEW that are death traps.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a842ee8d46fa891a?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 11:34 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

http://consumerist.com/5049547/your-new-tires-could-be-six+year-old-death-traps

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LG 50" PLASMA/should I buy this Model??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/588ed583a039f13a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 5:59 am
From: meteore

I was looking through the ads on the local newspaper and came across
this ad for a LG Plasma HDTV 16:9 with the following specs. It was
reduced by $500.00

720P Display Capability
16:9 Aspect Ratio, 30000:1 Contrast ratio
HDMI x 3 interface
1366 x 768 Resolution
PC Video inputs

I am aware 1080P picture is the best, but it is more expensive. Store
salemen prefer LCD, but they carry both.
I am ignorant about the Tech specs and do not understand them. Someone
else advised there is burnout with Plasma. For example when watching
sports, banner at bottom of screen would always show.

To buy a LCD with a 1080P picture would mean practically double in
price.

Should I avoid Plasmas altogether? Insofar as longevity and quality
of tv is concerned, would I be making an error by purchasing a
Plasma?

What are your recommendations?

Roger

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 7:17 am
From: clams_casino

meteore wrote:

>I was looking through the ads on the local newspaper and came across
>this ad for a LG Plasma HDTV 16:9 with the following specs. It was
>reduced by $500.00
>
>720P Display Capability
>16:9 Aspect Ratio, 30000:1 Contrast ratio
>HDMI x 3 interface
>1366 x 768 Resolution
>PC Video inputs
>
>
>I am aware 1080P picture is the best, but it is more expensive. Store
>salemen prefer LCD, but they carry both.
>I am ignorant about the Tech specs and do not understand them. Someone
>else advised there is burnout with Plasma. For example when watching
>sports, banner at bottom of screen would always show.
>
>
>To buy a LCD with a 1080P picture would mean practically double in
>price.
>
>
>Should I avoid Plasmas altogether? Insofar as longevity and quality
>of tv is concerned, would I be making an error by purchasing a
>Plasma?
>
>
>What are your recommendations?
>
>
>Roger
>
>
>
>

From what I've heard, plasma TVs are best suited for commercial
environments where the screen needs to be / should be viewable from the
sides (wide viewing angle).

LCD's have reduced viewability from the sides, but are quite suitable
for most residential viewing (typically viewed closer & more head on
than from the side).

Plasmas tend to be much heavier (2x weight?) and consume more power.

For the cost difference, most seem to prefer LCDs for the home.

From what I recall, neither has a significant difference in life
expectancy, but neither have been around all that long. As you
mentioned, plasmas have a potential for the burn -in.

Since I intend to be in that market next year, my concern is more what
make & size of LCD.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 7:20 am
From: "Dave"

"meteore" <bigrog98@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:39811ad7-c77e-4473-8953-10588a6d13ae@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>I was looking through the ads on the local newspaper and came across
> this ad for a LG Plasma HDTV 16:9 with the following specs. It was
> reduced by $500.00
>
> 720P Display Capability
> 16:9 Aspect Ratio, 30000:1 Contrast ratio
> HDMI x 3 interface
> 1366 x 768 Resolution
> PC Video inputs
>
>
> I am aware 1080P picture is the best, but it is more expensive. Store
> salemen prefer LCD, but they carry both.
> I am ignorant about the Tech specs and do not understand them. Someone
> else advised there is burnout with Plasma. For example when watching
> sports, banner at bottom of screen would always show.

Plasma is subject to burn-in, just like CRT tubes. So you don't want any
particular 'pixel' to be showing the same color for extended periods of
time. But to avoid this, just make sure to change the channel every couple
of hours or so. That way, you don't get those stupid bugs/logos burnt into
the screen. I've also read that the newer plasma sets are LESS prone to
this problem.

Also, there is some concern around the gas used in the plasma sets.
Basically, after several years, it will need to be recharged, kind of like a
car Air Conditioner. Or the light level will decrease to the point where it
is hard to watch.

Having said that, plasma can be good for larger sets. If you think it is a
good deal, go ahead and buy it.

Just be aware that plasma is NOT recommended for really BRIGHT areas. If
you are going to put the TV in a room with a large picture
window...especially if the large picture window is on the opposite wall from
the TV, you'd be much better off going with LCD, as LCD is brighter. Plasma
is good for darker rooms, like if you have a family room in the basement
with not a lot of natural (ie sun) light in that room. -Dave

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 11:55 am
From: "JR Weiss"

"meteore" <bigrog98@gmail.com> wrote...
>I was looking through the ads on the local newspaper and came across
> this ad for a LG Plasma HDTV 16:9 with the following specs. It was
> reduced by $500.00
>
> 720P Display Capability
> 16:9 Aspect Ratio, 30000:1 Contrast ratio
> HDMI x 3 interface
> 1366 x 768 Resolution
> PC Video inputs
>
> I am aware 1080P picture is the best, but it is more expensive. Store
> salemen prefer LCD, but they carry both.
> I am ignorant about the Tech specs and do not understand them. Someone
> else advised there is burnout with Plasma. For example when watching
> sports, banner at bottom of screen would always show.
>
> To buy a LCD with a 1080P picture would mean practically double in
> price.

Look around for reviews on the particular TVs you are looking at. Brands and
model series have wide variations in picture quality, especially when looking at
SD TV input -- some do not upsample well. One of the common themes is that
"contrast ratio" has absolutely no meaning, because there is no standard and
various mfgrs' claims are widely skewed.

For any TV above 37", there will be a noticeable difference in picture quality
between 1080P and 720P displays, especially if you view HD movies. Below 37",
there is little noticeable difference, and at 37" it's a tossup.

Today, 50" is near the top of the LCD range, and in the middle of the Plasma
range. Current Plasma TVs do not have as significant burn-in problems as
earlier models.

Go shopping and look at TVs near each other to compare the pictures. Ask the
salesmen to put on a cable or broadcast TV channel instead of the made-for-sales
HD demo stuff. Then decide on price vs features from among those that have
pictures suitable to you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 50" plasma HDTV/should I buy it??
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0a4ab3e209154545?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 6:12 am
From: Agent_C

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 02:04:14 -0700 (PDT), meteore <bigrog98@gmail.com>
wrote:

>What are your recommendations?

Compare it to what you can get new for the same price.

For example: http://tinyurl.com/5suv3x or http://tinyurl.com/58upuv

A_C

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reusing Water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fd655be017f95057?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 6:36 am
From: Lou

I'm trying to think of a way to use bath and shower water to water the
lawn. Has anyone come across a household underground system either
professional or home made that could be retrofitted?
Lou

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 7:11 am
From: "Dave"

"Lou" <loupark@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7913a6c3-5648-4c1c-b0b4-5fb692cd5b84@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> I'm trying to think of a way to use bath and shower water to water the
> lawn. Has anyone come across a household underground system either
> professional or home made that could be retrofitted?
> Lou

Why not just get a cheap sump pump, hook it up to a garden hose, and drape
the hose out the bathroom window? When you take a shower, leave the drain
closed. When you are done taking bath or shower, dip the sump pump inlet
into the water, fire it up, and let it empty through a sprinkler onto the
lawn.

Note that you do not want the sump pump in the shower/bath, or nearby where
it can fall into the shower/bath, as normally you don't want an electrical
appliance to take a bath with you. But you can keep it in the bathroom
somewhere handy. -Dave

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 10:05 am
From: Lou

On Sep 14, 9:11 am, "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote:
> "Lou" <loup...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:7913a6c3-5648-4c1c-b0b4-5fb692cd5b84@73g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I'm trying to think of a way to use bath and shower water to water the
> > lawn. Has anyone come across a household underground system either
> > professional or home made that could be retrofitted?
> > Lou
>
> Why not just get a cheap sump pump, hook it up to a garden hose, and drape
> the hose out the bathroom window? When you take a shower, leave the drain
> closed. When you are done taking bath or shower, dip the sump pump inlet
> into the water, fire it up, and let it empty through a sprinkler onto the
> lawn.
>
> Note that you do not want the sump pump in the shower/bath, or nearby where
> it can fall into the shower/bath, as normally you don't want an electrical
> appliance to take a bath with you. But you can keep it in the bathroom
> somewhere handy. -Dave

Although I wouldn't go to that extreme Dave, isn't a sump sealed to
prevent
electrical problems?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 10:47 am
From: Vic Smith

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 06:36:04 -0700 (PDT), Lou <loupark@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I'm trying to think of a way to use bath and shower water to water the
>lawn. Has anyone come across a household underground system either
>professional or home made that could be retrofitted?
> Lou

In my area house drainage commonly has these main components.
1. A stack from toilet(s) that goes through the basement floor and
directly into the sewer system.
2. A sink line that is tied in to sinks/tubs/showers that goes through
the basement floor and into a tile that is tied into an outside catch
basin.
3. The catch basin is a brick lined hole in the ground with a concrete
rim at ground level, the hole covered by a lighter version of a
manhole cover. It is about ten feet deep, and a yard wide.
The sink line comes in near the bottom of the basin and there is a
hole a couple feet above that connects back to the main sewer
line.
The purpose of the catch basin is to let grease or other non-sewer
compatible solids from sinks settle out and only allow relatively
clean water to enter the sewer system.
Catch basin must be cleaned every so many years. Normally you hire a
company to come out and suck/scoop the sludge out, but I've never had
it done, and my catch basin is ok.
My house was built in 1959. Had the same system on every house I've
lived in here, but I understand they do it differently now, maybe
undersink grease traps.
Perhaps modern kitchen habits and detergents are the reason for the
change. Not sure.
In any case, I believe that the sink line is still a common plumbing
drain design, catch basin or not, so that's where you want to look to
divert the water outside.
A section would be cut out and replaced with a suitable T, most likely
with a valve incorporated, so you could choose when to send the water
outside. There is no pressure on this, so band type fittings will do,
but check the codes. Since mine is steel I would rigidly tie the
upper part of the line either to a joist or the lower part to prevent
sag after cutting, but a real plumber might disagree. With plastic
it's probably not an issue.
A line with suitable slope would be routed through the wall to the
outside, and another valve capping it off.
I would provide a loop back to the original drain so should the flow
to the outside be restricted the water couldn't back up to the
sink/tub, but that's not really necessary.
After that the options of how to store/distribute the sink water are
only limited by your imagination. Underground/surface tank w/pump,
elevated tank allowing gravity to feed soaker hoses, etc.
Depends on heights of lines.
In my place if I cut the sink line in my basement up by the ceiling
the outside fitting would be only a couple feet above ground level.
Either way it's no big job if you have plumbing skills. Should cost
about 3-5 hundred for a plumber to do it.
If your house is on a slab or the drain system markedly different than
what I described above, forget everything I said.

--Vic

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 11:25 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Lou <loupark@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to think of a way to use bath and shower water to water the
> lawn. Has anyone come across a household underground system either
> professional or home made that could be retrofitted?

Its pretty easy with the bath, just use a bilge pump to pump
the water out of the bath instead of letting it go down the drain.

Harder with a shower. You can just block the drain with an expandable plug
well down the drain and put the bilge pump into the drain above the plug.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In-house visit by a "Rainbow vacuum" salesperson
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8cbbcbc71d84da35?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 7:13 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"thestuccocompany.com" <info_at_air-space_dot_us@foo.com> wrote in message
news:8%0zk.655$F_4.218@textfe.usenetserver.com...
> thestuccocompany.com had written this in response to
> http://www.thestuccocompany.com/maintenance/In-house-visit-by-a-Rainbow-vacuum-salesperson-212813-.htm
> :
>
> This is ma\' SIG
> -------------------------------------
> Ignoramus32056 wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> We had a visit by a saleswoman who was trying to sell us a $2,000
>> "Rainbow cleaning system". For just listening, we received a
>> gift of
>> some bed sheet and also a "gift travel certificate" from a
>> company
>> called "Certs, Inc". (which is a florida based travel gifts
>> company
>> that does not make me very excited)
>
>> http://www.rainbowsystem.com/
>
>> What this thing is, it seems, is a 25k RPM impeller sitting on top of
>> a Lexan bowl filled with water. The impeller sucks air in, makes it
>> whirl in a way that it makes contact with water and sheds the dust and
>> other stuff into water.
>
>> There is no filter, like on conventional vacuums that trap particles
>> into a filter. Water acts as a filter.
>
>> The machine was supposedly "1.9 HP", however, when measured
>> with my
>> Kill-A-Watt power meter, it registered only 850 watts consumed from
>> the wall outlet, so it could not be more than 1 HP. OK, we all know
>> that everyone is lying about HP these days. No biggie. If it was 1.9
>> HP, it would trip the breakers all the time.
>
>> As a side comment, what we have now is a Sears Kenmore upright vacuum
>> that is a real beast, it uses about 13 amps and has a HEPA filter.
>
>> Then the saleswoman proceeded to make various points, which I may not
>> remember all or in correct order, but I will mention a few.
>
>> 1. Vacuum cleaners do not pick up sand from carpets/rugs, well.
>> No comment on my part.
>
>> 2. After just 15 minutes of use, due to dust getting into the fine
>> mesh of the vacuum's filter, the "air flow" diminishes due to
>> dust
>> blocking the little pores. So a vacuum cleaner is not usable.
>
>> This was a total lie, as was easy to demonstrate with my vacuum which
>> has its bag 2/3 full already. It still sucked well and produced a lot
>> of suction and air flow.
>
>> 3. Vacuums blow dust around and increase amount of dust.
>
>> I cannot say that it is false, for sure, but the 2.3 full bag in our
>> vacuum attests that it traps at least some dust. Plus, it does have a
>> HEPA filter.
>
>> She did some acrobatics by taking out the HEPA filter, which had some
>> dust on the back, kind of mashed it in her hands a little and put
>> back, -- then when the vacuum turned on, a lot of dust was indeed
>> blown out.
>
>> 4. Then there were some demonstrations that Rainbow would still pick
>> up dust after vacuuming with a Sears vacuum, which could possibly be
>> true but I think that she cheated a bit by going outside the area that
>> I actually vacuumed, a bit -- it is kind of hard to tell, I think so
>> but my spouse is not so sure.
>
>> 5. She made some claims about infections that her system prevented,
>> which went somewhat over my head but overall I was not sure if it was
>> not complete bunk.
>
>> We did not purchase this system in the end, but I wanted to hear some
>> opinions on this stuff.
>
>> i

i bought one yrs ago back before hepa filters were common. loved the lack
of "vac scent". when we had to replace the carpet, there was no dirt on or
under the pad. that doesn't happen with a regular vac. one of the
minuses is that you have to empty the container. if you have too much
dirt, which is most likely when you begin using a rainbow, you'll get mud,
so be sure to empty frequently if you're a new user. if you have pet hair,
you need to know if it's safe to flush down your toilet, else you'll have to
dump the container elsewhere. i also was able to use it as a carpet
cleaner since there was a carpet cleaning attachment. at this time, i
prefer an upright, but it's still in my basement awaiting the next time i
have need of a carpet cleaner (which may be never again).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Individual frugality is no match for population growth
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ff7513a55a2c0c8e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 7:38 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

In article <b9e492ad-3225-41e2-af4b-
7b9c79abebed@s1g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, enough_already@lycos.com
says...
> How many of you detect a general, growing scarcity as human population
> growth collides with physical limits? Not just any one thing, like the
> price of oil.
>
> Frugality is being overrun by 210,000 more people each day. An
> additional 77 million per year cannot be added to a finite world
> without consequences. There are too many people feeding at the trough
> and fighting for space. There is not "plenty of land" when you look at
> how it's being used already. A global balance of births and deaths is
> vital, and only requires existing drugstore technology.
>
> What is economic growth really, except the endless accommodation of
> more people and the loss of wilderness? Economies of scale for
> manufacturing were achieved decades ago. The market is just getting
> more bloated with consumers. The rich are skimming off the top as
> they've always done, but the ratio of poor to rich is growing. That's
> the thing to watch for.
>
> If you live in a fast-growing area the feeling is palpable. Why must
> all these people be here? What's the point of all these new homes,
> destroying the last remnants of open space, and farmland that was
> supposed to feed the future? Why is it assumed that traffic must keep
> getting worse? Apathy and mindless consumption are driving our
> destiny, not logic.
>
> If every speech-maker replaced the words "economic growth" with
> "population growth," real change might happen. You have to define what
> a thing really is before you can tackle it. But society is stuck on
> "growth" as theoretical concept of self-improvement, ignoring physical
> limits in a finite world. There is an urgent need to discern between
> growth of quantity and _quality_.
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>
> "How crowded can we make this planet?" is not much of a legacy.
>
I teach self-sustainability. Will anyone listen is the real question?

http://cheapogroovo.vox.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did MacDonald's burgers shrink?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ab4ff744892ce43?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 7:43 am
From: Cheapo Groovo

In article <23566ac4-c539-43ef-939b-
5a26f06b1cba@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, j0069bond@hotmail.com
says...
> Got some discount coupons in the mail so I went and had a Big Mac & a
> Quarter Pounder. Haven't had any since they had the 2 for $2 years
> ago. Are they smaller now?
>
http://cheapogroovo.vox.com/library/post/same-price-smaller-package.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The wrong response to higher food prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7667014efbaf7d86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 7:57 am
From: "Lou"

'simeOday" <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote in message
news:CaGdnd95LMmfzVXVnZ2dnUVZ_t3inZ2d@comcast.com...
> <http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/09/pf/food_downsizing/index.htm>
> "As manufacturers cope with the rising cost of raw ingredients and fuel,
> downsizing their package sizes is one increasingly popular way to pass
> along a price increase without drawing too much attention."
> ------------------------
>
>
> Fortunately, the government requires producers to indicate the net
> weight of the food on the packaging, and the grocery store indicates the
> price per ounce. So the somewhat deceptive aspect of this is manageable.
>
> My real problem with this policy is that packaging is expensive. Buying
> larger quantities at a time is one way to save money, yet producers are
> doing the opposite. So this particular response to higher food prices
> just exacerbates the problem!

Manufacturers have been doing this at least since the 1960's. Obviously, it
only works so far. Otherwise package sizes today would be approaching the
microscopic in size, or we'd have to infer that package sizes where
gargantuan back 50 years ago.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: microsoft office 2007 removal
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4644420a59739940?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 8:03 am
From: "Lou"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gn0yk.1027$1a2.403@trnddc04...
>
> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:srhi-4AC6CD.22162810092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > In article <AD_xk.997$Wd.396@trnddc01>,
> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:srhi-6F1308.21332710092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> >> > In article <htPxk.938$1a2.223@trnddc04>,
> >> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> i'm using vista 64bit. how do i remove this program?
> >> >
> >> > Through the software and programs control panel.
> >>
> >> where is it? i did a search, but it didn't show up. i've only had
this
> >> computer a couple of weeks.
> >
> > In the control panel. I don't have Vista available, but I think its
> > called "Programs and software" or something like that. If you still
> > can't find it, look under the help feature or go to
> > http://www.microsoft.com and search for "uninstall Office."
>
> thanks. the microsoft website wasn't easy help. looks like they
> want hide that info as much as possible.
>
> i'm going with open office.

You don't need to uninstall Microsoft Office in order to install and use
OpenOffice - I have both on my machine. OpenOffice is not 100% compatible
with Microsoft Office. If you're going to use only files you've created on
your system, I guess that doesn't matter, but if you send or receive stuff
from others, it might. And before you say you don't send or receive stuff
from other people, consider that sometimes when you're looking stuff up on
the web, you're looking at Word, Excel, or Powerpoint files.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 9:16 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"Lou" <lpogoda@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:NI9zk.131$pp3.85@trnddc06...
>
> "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gn0yk.1027$1a2.403@trnddc04...
>>
>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:srhi-4AC6CD.22162810092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> > In article <AD_xk.997$Wd.396@trnddc01>,
>> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:srhi-6F1308.21332710092008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> >> > In article <htPxk.938$1a2.223@trnddc04>,
>> >> > "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> i'm using vista 64bit. how do i remove this program?
>> >> >
>> >> > Through the software and programs control panel.
>> >>
>> >> where is it? i did a search, but it didn't show up. i've only had
> this
>> >> computer a couple of weeks.
>> >
>> > In the control panel. I don't have Vista available, but I think its
>> > called "Programs and software" or something like that. If you still
>> > can't find it, look under the help feature or go to
>> > http://www.microsoft.com and search for "uninstall Office."
>>
>> thanks. the microsoft website wasn't easy help. looks like they
>> want hide that info as much as possible.
>>
>> i'm going with open office.
>
> You don't need to uninstall Microsoft Office in order to install and use
> OpenOffice - I have both on my machine. OpenOffice is not 100% compatible
> with Microsoft Office. If you're going to use only files you've created
> on
> your system, I guess that doesn't matter, but if you send or receive stuff
> from others, it might. And before you say you don't send or receive stuff
> from other people, consider that sometimes when you're looking stuff up on
> the web, you're looking at Word, Excel, or Powerpoint files.

ms office installed is a trial version. i'll have to buy it. if i find i
need it, i will. but i
think ms puts out readers.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 11:00 am
From: richgr@panix.com (Rich Greenberg)

In article <_Nazk.131$Yw1.87@trnddc03>,
AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:

[...]

>ms office installed is a trial version. i'll have to buy it. if i find i
>need it, i will. but i
>think ms puts out readers.

Yes, M$ has free viewers for Word, Xcel and PowerPoint. But if you have
open office, you won't need them as OO for the most part uses compatible
file formats.

Look under the file or help menus for an "uninstall" or "remove" option.

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Welfare babies, greasy diners and other tidbits
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/05c9411f66b99582?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 8:47 am
From: James Nasium

Welfare babies, greasy diners and other tidbits

Yes it's James and yes I'm back to express my opinions on several hot
topics germane to the here and now. First, nigs on welfare. Because
these women can't seem to understand the concept of using birth
control and because they appear all to eager to spread their legs to
any Tom, Dick or Tyrone, our government is left footing the bill for
the resulting future car thieves. A solution? Cut off all benefits
after 1 year. Educate the ones who want it so they can find a real
job
and above all, keep up with current affairs in our nation's welfare
program. There is no shortage of liberal ass polyps in suits out
there
lobbying for even more rights for these lazy sloths.

Next up, greasy diners. I've eaten at my fair share of them while out
on the road and for the most part, they offer a pretty good selection
of Americana food however it was my recent misfortune to run across a
diner named "Juanito's", a former 1950's shotgun style home converted
into a Mexican diner. "I'll take the enchilada special" sez I to my
clearly brain dead waiter. What the heck. I'll try it and see how
they
are. Bad move. Within 30 minutes of ingestion, I found myself cutting
high- pitched farts with a serious side affect. They were wet ones. I
was given a most unwelcome squishy reminder of my meal when I rose
from my booth to pay to little mongrel behind the counter and walk
out
to my car. I nigger rigged a man kotex out of kleenex and pushed it
between my ass cheeks to sop up the remnants of those brown blasts.
The moral of the story? Be ready for gastric distress when trying out
someplace new. I said it, you read it and I remain....

James Nasium

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 9:18 am
From: clams_casino

James Nasium wrote:

>Welfare babies, greasy diners and other tidbits
>
>Yes it's James and yes I'm back in my trailer park.
>

Glad to see you arrived safely.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Florida Homeowners Insurance
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3234019fd7de028f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 10:30 am
From: Lou

What I've never understood about the Citizens insurance is,
if it's illegal to price gouge due to hurricanes, how does the
Florida state government get away with it?
Lou

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 12:45 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 10:30:18 -0700 (PDT), Lou <loupark@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>What I've never understood about the Citizens insurance is,
>if it's illegal to price gouge due to hurricanes, how does the
>Florida state government get away with it?
> Lou

When they were able to void the fourth amendment rights by illegally
searching private property for citrus canker (a disease with no effect
at all on public health), and then seizing all citrus trees within
1900 feet of an infected tree, it was pretty obvious that they could
get away with whatever they wanted.

Does Citizen's gouge? Considering the potential for losses, and the
group that is insured, I'm not so sure. Folks with multi-million
dollar mansions directly on the coast didn't get there by being
pushovers, and can be pretty insistent that their Italian marble tile
work and filigreed antique mahogany furniture is replaced with exact
replacements.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surviving a bear attack
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6fc0d7e660741dbe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 10:59 am
From: Patriot Games

On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 05:35:03 -0700 (PDT), ultimauw@hotmail.com wrote:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twgg-fFsZ58&feature=user
> Lay down on your stomach, put your hands over the back of your neck,
>and play dead.
>You may be swiped a few times before the bear moves away and be
>bruised and bloodied,
>but you will come out alive.

Good advice for Democrats.

Because its WRONG advice and will get more Democrats killed. Lord
knows we desperately need fewer Democrats.

This is pussy advice.

You survive a bear attack by SHOOTING the bear DEAD.

Also, even though bears can sprint much faster than a person they
CANNOT run downhill.

Regarding the other kind of 'bear" - a fat hairy faggot - this is also
good advice for Democrats.

Lay down on your stomach, put your hands over the back of your neck,
play dead, and let the 'bear' - the fat hairy faggot - fuck your ass
until he gets bored.

Lord knows Democrats love taking it up the ass!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CFL specs: "SBCFL" Floodlights?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23d861342cf79cfd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 11:42 am
From: "JR Weiss"

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote:
>
> Motion sensor floods are a bad application for CFLs.

Is it the repeated on-off cycles, or something else? If I put CFLs in the
fixture, I plan on switching the 'on' time to the max for each cycle, which is
20 minutes.

> Beyond that - see if you can find an LED lamp rated for dimmers and
> electronic switching devices - then you can put an LED lamp in your motion
> sensor floodlight. LED lamps have no need to warm up and do not
> suffer wear from starting. Good luck finding one more than half as bright
> as about 50 watts incandescent floodlight equivalence, regardless of what
> is claimed.

I suspect we'll see an evolution from CFL to LED for "normal" lighting in the
near future, as the cost and color issues are resolved. I haven't seen any such
LEDs yet, but I'll keep looking...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Putian City Chengxiang District CiCi Trade Co., Ltd 8-35USD(world
famous brand)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/694dd37df9169fce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Sep 14 2008 12:33 pm
From: cicitrade01@yahoo.cn

hi
We are supplier in china Footwear Apparel Handbags Jeans&Pants Cap
Accessory
1) Top quality, reasonable price, safe shipping, and best service
2) Sport shoes for men, women and kids with all sizes available
3) Sport shoes with different colors and styles available in stock
4) The material and size can be required to make in accordance with
customers' requests

Price :8-35usd 6-30EURO 5-30Pounds

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 11C 12C 12.5C 13C 1Y 1.5Y 2.5Y 3Y
EUR:28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

Footwear
http://www.ciciaaa.cn
Apparel
http://www.ciciaaa.cn
Handbags
http://www.ciciaaa.cn
Jeans&Pants
http://www.ciciaaa.cn
Cap
http://www.ciciaaa.cn
Accessory
http://www.ciciaaa.cn
electronics product
http://picasaweb.google.com/cicitrade.eleltronics
CiCi
www.ciciaaa.cn
MSN:cicitrade@live.cn
Building Material Market, Goutou Denizen Committee, XiaChen Office
Putian City Chengxiang District CiCi Trade Co., Ltd

==============================================================================

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4 new messages in 4 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* CVS Pharmacist calls customer a "Fucking AIDS freak" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f6c5d62367cf192?hl=en
* Wholesale world famous brand(shoes、bags、Apparel、Watch) in china 8-35usd
at www.ciciaaa.cn - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ba909b35dbc8015?hl=en
* Warning: Some stores are selling old tires that are death traps. - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76544366b2e8f62b?hl=en
* Warning: Some stores are selling old tires AS NEW that are death traps. - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a842ee8d46fa891a?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CVS Pharmacist calls customer a "Fucking AIDS freak"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5f6c5d62367cf192?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 10:48 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Chief Thracian <chief_thracian@yahoo.com> wrote
> Patriot Games <Patriot@America.Com> wrote

>> Most people don't like fags, and just about everybody doesn't like AIDS-Fags!

> Hatred is nothing to be proud of.

Not liking isnt hatred.

> Nor is a prejudice justified, just because it's a majority opinion.

You get to like it or lump it.

> Germans made that mistake, and it led to a holocaust.

And everywhere else did too, and it didnt.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale world famous brand(shoes、bags、Apparel、Watch) in china 8-35
usd at www.ciciaaa.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ba909b35dbc8015?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 11:20 pm
From: cicitrade01@yahoo.cn

Price :8-35usd 6-30EURO 5-30Pounds

Kid's
US: 11C 12C 12.5C 13C 1Y 1.5Y 2.5Y 3Y
EUR:28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning: Some stores are selling old tires that are death traps.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76544366b2e8f62b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 11:34 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

http://consumerist.com/5049547/your-new-tires-could-be-six+year-old-death-traps

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 13 2008 11:34 pm
From: ultimauw@hotmail.com

http://consumerist.com/5049547/your-new-tires-could-be-six+year-old-death-traps

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Sunday, September 14, 2008

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

4 new messages in 4 topics - digest