Frugal Living: May 5, 2008

Monday, May 5, 2008

25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did Netflix raise the price of their plans?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/82508d9d7ee435b3?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:00 pm
From: Seerialmom

On May 5, 8:49 am, RogBa...@gmail.com wrote:
> The Redbox thing doesn't seem all that appealing. I don't have one
> near me, only at some Walmarts that are not very convenient. They must
> not have a very good selection if it doesn't have a search engine.

I don't like the idea of giving a credit card to some random machine
in the store. But then again, I understand "why" they take the
payment that way in case you don't return the movie. They have those
in Safeway and Raley's here in Northern Ca.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:01 pm
From: Seerialmom

On May 5, 10:44 am, <h> wrote:
> "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message
> > Well I've watched just about every movie on DVD that hasn't been released
> > recently. Redbox is perfect for recent releases. There's been a couple
> > of movies I've wanted that were OUT at the time I got to the redbox. But
> > for the most part, redbox does have a pretty good selection of the movies
> > that most people really want to rent right now. If you are looking for
> > older titles, you can forget about the redbox. :) -Dave
>
> Agreed. If the movie is more than a year old then it's not going to be
> there, but you can't beat Redbox for $1 movies the day they come out. In
> fact, we often use Redbox instead of On Demand, since that's $3.99.

Plus with On Demand movies you don't get the extras like blooper reels
and outtakes :)

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:27 pm
From: George Grapman

Seerialmom wrote:
> On May 5, 10:44 am, <h> wrote:
>> "Dave" <no...@nohow.not> wrote in message
>>> Well I've watched just about every movie on DVD that hasn't been released
>>> recently. Redbox is perfect for recent releases. There's been a couple
>>> of movies I've wanted that were OUT at the time I got to the redbox. But
>>> for the most part, redbox does have a pretty good selection of the movies
>>> that most people really want to rent right now. If you are looking for
>>> older titles, you can forget about the redbox. :) -Dave
>> Agreed. If the movie is more than a year old then it's not going to be
>> there, but you can't beat Redbox for $1 movies the day they come out. In
>> fact, we often use Redbox instead of On Demand, since that's $3.99.
>
> Plus with On Demand movies you don't get the extras like blooper reels
> and outtakes :)
On the other hand DVDs sometime offer comments from
directors,producers and actors.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 3:22 pm
From: "Dave"

The main problem with Redbox is limited selection. I think it only
has about 25-30 movies to choose from in the box, right?

(snip)

I'd have to guess that the number is somewhere between 150 and 200 recent
releases. There are like 15 on a page, and about a dozen pages to scroll
through. -Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gas Prices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0ee1641a39c5a013?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:07 pm
From: SMS

Terri wrote:

> Right, but consider not everyone lives where buying the cheapest gas is
> practical. I'm rural (see misc.rural in x-post) and a good 25 miles from
> the nearest Costco. If I happen to be there getting groceries at the same
> time I need gas, it works out great. It doesn't make much sense for me to
> make a 50 mile round trip ride (and about an hour and a half of my day)for
> the express purpose of getting Costco's cheaper gas. What I would have
> saved is moot if I have to drive those miles to get it.

Remember, the 3-5% back with the Costco Amex card is at _all_ gasoline
stations, not just Costco. At current prices, the cash station would
have to be 19¢ cheaper per gallon in order to save me any money, and of
course I'd have to be sure to have enough cash with me, since the
cash-only stations around here charge a 45¢ fee for the use of debit
cards. Plus it's less convenient to pay with cash, as you have to make
two trips to the cashier for a fill-up (one to prepay, one for change)
though some stations have cash acceptors that eliminate one of the two
trips.

== 2 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:14 pm
From: SMS

The Real Bev wrote:

> Huh? I got mail from Costco in the last month or so announcing their
> increase from 1% to 3% on gas wherever we buy it. You get 5%? You can
> use non-Costco Amex cards at Costco?

When I joined Costco in the 1980's, I had to form a business to join. So
20 years later they offered me the Costco Amex Business Card which
pays 5% rather than 3%.

> Whenever somebody offers significant inducement ($30 credit from Amazon,
> for instance) or 10% off today's purchase (a PVR) at Target, I get the
> card.

After a while it gets annoying having to pay yet another bill, even if
it's only once. The one I took advantage of was a card with a 0%
interest forever on no-fee balance transfers withing six months of the
card being issued. This deal netted me about $1000.

== 3 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:21 pm
From: SMS

The Real Bev wrote:

> Apparently some huge percentage of customers carry significant balances,
> generating enough money to allow us freeloaders to ride along -- at
> least one instance where the thrifty and smart profit from the actions
> of the profligate and stupid. Is there another one?

Still, since the approximately 40% of card holders that don't carry a
balance are easily identified, and since these are also the most likely
people to be smart enough to get rewards cards that pay at least 2%, it
would seem that they could decide to not offer cards to those customers
that get more in rewards than they generate in fees.

== 4 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:57 pm
From: The Real Bev

SMS wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Apparently some huge percentage of customers carry significant balances,
>> generating enough money to allow us freeloaders to ride along -- at
>> least one instance where the thrifty and smart profit from the actions
>> of the profligate and stupid. Is there another one?
>
> Still, since the approximately 40% of card holders that don't carry a
> balance are easily identified, and since these are also the most likely
> people to be smart enough to get rewards cards that pay at least 2%, it
> would seem that they could decide to not offer cards to those customers
> that get more in rewards than they generate in fees.

You'd think, wouldn't you? Maybe they count on us somehow forgetting a
payment...

--
Cheers,
Bev
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's
safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs. --Unknown

== 5 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 3:27 pm
From: Paul M. Eldridge

To get a sense as to why the U.S. oil supply situation may prove even
more problematic going forward, see the broadcast entitled "China vs
US: The Battle For Oil".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rce3G3MVJU

Cheers,
Paul

== 6 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 3:25 pm
From: "Tomes"

"The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:zyuTj.249$yg5.213@newsfe06.lga...
> Terri wrote:
>
>> Jim Elbrecht <elbrecht@email.com> wrote:
>>> Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I believe it has to do with the VISA and MasterCard pre-authorizations
>>>>> (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but the MasterCard limit per
>>>>> transaction was set at $75.00).
>>>>That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)
>>>
>>> Makes more sense than ever. I get 3% off for using the card. 3% of
>>> $4 gas is better than 3% of the $1 gas I was getting when I signed up.
>>>
>> I guess I still don't get it then. I use cash to buy my gas. The guy
>> down the road charges two prices for gas. The price for cash paying
>> customers such as myself is less than those using credit cards.
>
> Indeed, but the other guy down the road might sell gas for even less
> either way. Around here, double-price stations rarely have the best
> prices.
>

Around here it is a real rarity for a gas station to charge extra for credit
cards. It is an extra charge, not a cash discount.
Tomes

== 7 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 3:32 pm
From: The Etobian

On Mon, 05 May 2008 08:20:09 -0400, Elmo <ElmoHateSpam@noSpam4U.org>
wrote:

>The matter of refineries is enigmatic. Running a refinery is pretty
>much like owning a money printing press but no one wants to build any
>new refineries. While safety and maintenance should be a very important
>matter (see also BP Houston), it stretches credibility to have them
>running at 85-90% of design capacity most of the time. Reminds me of
>how all of those California electrical generating plants were down for
>maintenance just when the power was needed the most resulting in much
>larger profits for the power brokers (no pun intended) like Enron than
>would have been the case had there been plentiful power at lower cost.

Nobody CAN build refineries because nobody can get them permitted.

Of course, I wouldn't put it past the existing oil companies from
being behind the passing such laws to create an insurmountable barrier
of entry to any venture thinking about jumping in.

== 8 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 3:38 pm
From: aemeijers

The Real Bev wrote:
> Larry Caldwell wrote:
>
>> In article <bosTj.239$yg5.119@newsfe06.lga>,
>> bashley101+usenet@gmail.com (The Real Bev) says...
>>
>>> Amex has gone back to giving 5% off gas. One more damn card to
>>> carry. My stack is half an inch thick now. No, they're not all
>>> credit cards. There's the library, the laundry, medical stuff, a
>>> couple of gift-certificate cards and more.
>>
>> I have gone to two wallets. One is just essentials - cash, my ATM
>> card, auto insurance card, etc.; stuff I don't want to be without.
>> The other wallet is for everything else. Often times, it stays home.
>> When I carry it, having two wallets evens out the lumps in my pockets.
>
> My handbag weighs 7 pounds; an extra wallet would just add a couple
> more ounces. There are times I've gone out with only keys, a credit
> card, my driver's license and a $20 bill, but it just feels WRONG.
>
> I really like those indestructable nylon wallets with the velcro
> fasteners, although eventually the velcro gives out. What I don't
> understand is why they don't make the flaps longer to allow for stuffing
> that sucker with cards and change.
>
I can't stand sitting on a wallet, so from the age when I first started
needing to carry one, I always kept it the left front pocket, and always
buy 3-folds to get a better pocket fit. Hard to find them with enough
card slots in the leather and a window for the DL/Badge. (I always throw
away the stack of plastic pockets- I hate those.) Money and plastic is
all I carry- no notes or memorabilia. I do have a second large wallet
for long trips, that I almost never use, so I can divide the plastic and
cash, and carry a passport other than loose. But it is buttoned into an
inside jacket pocket, or zipped into a backpack pocket.

--
aem sends...

== 9 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:08 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:2QKTj.1760$ah4.809@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Apparently some huge percentage of customers carry significant balances,
>> generating enough money to allow us freeloaders to ride along -- at least
>> one instance where the thrifty and smart profit from the actions of the
>> profligate and stupid. Is there another one?
>
> Still, since the approximately 40% of card holders that don't carry a
> balance are easily identified,

They're not as easy to identify from CR's as has been implied. Freeloaders
will still show non-zero balances on CR's as CR reporting is not synced with
billing cycles. You usually only see a $0 balance on a card that's not being
used at all.

It'd be a lot easier to eliminate grace periods or impose annual fees than
to try to identify freeloaders in advance.

As for why they don't, I suspect competition is part of the reason, another
is a desire not to attract the attention of government busybodies looking to
score political points by slapping down the "evil credit card companies."
(though they've managed to attract that kind of attention anyway...) There's
also the fact that cc issuers usually have many other financial products
that you might buy into and having their brand name in your face every time
you buy something is just good advertising.

== 10 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:13 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> SMS wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote

>>> Apparently some huge percentage of customers carry significant
>>> balances, generating enough money to allow us freeloaders to ride
>>> along -- at least one instance where the thrifty and smart profit
>>> from the actions of the profligate and stupid. Is there another one?

>> Still, since the approximately 40% of card holders that don't carry a
>> balance are easily identified, and since these are also the most
>> likely people to be smart enough to get rewards cards that pay at
>> least 2%, it would seem that they could decide to not offer cards to
>> those customers that get more in rewards than they generate in fees.

> You'd think, wouldn't you? Maybe they count on us somehow forgetting a payment...

Or they realise that plenty who do pay off the card in full every month,
wont necessarily do that forever as their circumstances change.

So while the ones that do pay off the card in full every month are
still profitable because of the merchant charge, that there is always
the potential for making more profit when they dont pay it off in full
for whatever reason.

And they cant necessarily work out who is paying off the card in full every month
on someone else's card anyway, so they dont get to target the offers anyway.

== 11 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx> wrote:
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:2QKTj.1760$ah4.809@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently some huge percentage of customers carry significant
>>> balances, generating enough money to allow us freeloaders to ride
>>> along -- at least one instance where the thrifty and smart profit
>>> from the actions of the profligate and stupid. Is there another
>>> one?
>>
>> Still, since the approximately 40% of card holders that don't carry a
>> balance are easily identified,
>
> They're not as easy to identify from CR's as has been implied.
> Freeloaders will still show non-zero balances on CR's as CR reporting
> is not synced with billing cycles. You usually only see a $0 balance
> on a card that's not being used at all.
>
> It'd be a lot easier to eliminate grace periods or impose annual fees
> than to try to identify freeloaders in advance.
>
> As for why they don't, I suspect competition is part of the reason,
> another is a desire not to attract the attention of government
> busybodies looking to score political points by slapping down the
> "evil credit card companies." (though they've managed to attract that
> kind of attention anyway...) There's also the fact that cc issuers
> usually have many other financial products that you might buy into
> and having their brand name in your face every time you buy something
> is just good advertising.

And there's no reason to not have the freeloaders
when the merchant fee makes them profitable anyway.

== 12 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:16 pm
From: krw

In article <ZuxTj.1682$nW2.831@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
scharf.steven@geemail.com says...
> h wrote:
>
> > Umm, the rewards are from the credit card issuer, not the merchant. I'm a
> > merchant, and I have no idea who uses a rewards card and who doesn't.
> > Rewards don't affect merchants' costs one bit, unless the merchant is also
> > the issuer of the card (Sears, etc.)
>
> I noticed that some credit card processors process rewards cards at a
> higher rate than non-rewards cards, so it does cost the merchant extra.
> I.e, "http://www.novainfo.com/costco/index.asp". It may be that the
> processors that charge higher rates for _all_ cards, don't differentiate
> between rewards and non-rewards cards.

My brother (a veterinarian) says that he gets dinged extra for
"rewards" cards. He had to do some digging but there is a code in
his statement that shows which cards were "rewards".

--
Keith

== 13 of 14 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:30 pm
From: Paul M. Eldridge

On Mon, 05 May 2008 18:32:54 -0400, The Etobian <pdcorc@myway.com>
wrote:

>Nobody CAN build refineries because nobody can get them permitted.
>
>Of course, I wouldn't put it past the existing oil companies from
>being behind the passing such laws to create an insurmountable barrier
>of entry to any venture thinking about jumping in.

Why would anyone want to spend billions of dollars to build a new oil
refinery and all the related infrastructure (e.g., pipelines, storage
facilities, etc.) when there's already more than enough capacity in
the system to meet demand and when it's cheaper (and easier) to simply
expand existing operations?

Furthermore, refined products are bought and sold on the global market
and relatively cheap supplies of gasoline can be imported from
overseas as the result of an unfavourable product mix; as I noted here
before, there's too much gasoline kicking about and not enough diesel,
but when you crack a barrel of crude you get both whether you want
both or not. That surplus gasoline is being dumped here in North
America, so contrary to what you might think, refiners aren't making
money; in fact, some of the smaller, independent players are running
at a loss and, consequently, cutting back on their production and in
some cases closing up shop altogether.

Lastly, with the recent shift toward smaller, more fuel-efficient
vehicles, increased use of public transportation, the push toward
alternate fuels such as plug-in electric, and reduced consumption in
response to higher prices, refiners are a lot more worried about being
saddled with too much capacity, not too little.

Cheers,
Paul

== 14 of 14 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 5:05 pm
From: "Lou"

"caloo calay" <user132384@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8691d185-3c6b-4662-9f38-43cedfb7dca1@w4g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> A lot of folks are "locked in" to high gas consumption because their
> commutes are long. Even with a 35 mpg car, it adds up quick. Of
> course they could "unlock" themselves, but that would be a big pain in
> the a##, involving moving closer to work (and inviting immediate
> firing or layoff), or quitting current job and getting new job closer
> to home (also a pain : new health insurance, possible loss of health
> ins for 6 months, new job might suck, etc etc)
>
> Small cars are less safe than big cars. Get whacked in a small car
> and have a llifetime of pain. No fun.
>
> I have a big old guzzler car, and I may just keep it, and get a new
> job closer to home. I have an 80 mile round trip 5 day a week
> commute, which equals $4,000 per year in gas !!!

What's a big old guzzler car? I too have a 40 mile each way commute. About
ten miles is on local roads to and from the interstate, the other 30 miles
is on the interstate. I drive an Impala (EPA classes that as a big car, but
it's not in the SUV) class. My mileage varies from a bit over 30 (30.75
last week) to a bit over 34 (34.25 three or four weeks ago). My wife also
drives an Impala - her commute is 120 miles a day (ten-ish miles on local
roads, the rest on the interstate), plus she does local driving like to the
market, postoffice, etc. She normally averages between 30 and 31 miles per
gallon.

In other words, depending on your commute and driving style, you don't have
to drive a small car to get reasonably decent mileage. The 21 mpg you cite
seems unreasonably low to me.

> I get 21 mpg in the big safe guzzler, and a tiny car will get 35 mpg,
> which would bring the $4,000 down to $2,400.
>
> Why are the mpg's so horrible even in small cars?

I wondered about this too. Every time it comes time to buy another car, I
look at the smaller cars, and one of the things I pay attention to is the
mileage estimates. It sounds reasonable that a car that weighs half as much
ought to get better mileage than the heavier car - maybe twice a much?
Smaller cars seem to do somewhat better, but not as much as I'd expect. I
wonder why not?

> I had a 1984 5
> speed stick shift Nissan Sentra wagon that got 49 mpg hiway. Why the
> heck can't they make that car today? Nowadays the best mpg is 35
> mpg, in a 4 cyl car. Most 4 cyl cars are even worse, down around 30
> mpg.
>
>
>
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MSN article: "High food prices? Here's how to save"
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b9e63977d717a2cc?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:08 pm
From: Seerialmom

On May 5, 1:50 pm, lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:
> http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/CollegeAndFamily/RaiseKids/HowTo...
>
> It's 3 pages long and includes a link: "How to shop organic on a
> budget"
>
> They also ask for your personal tips on saving!
>
> One thing I hadn't heard of before was how to make powdered milk more
> palatable.
>
> Lenona.

I use my powdered milk for cooking only (like in mashed potatoes); so
the liquid taste isn't an issue. I'm betting most of the readers of
this newsgroup know how to shop organic on a budget already (or they
don't shop, they raise their own stuff).

My own personal tips for saving were born from necessity...see if I
can get the basics at Dollar Tree, 99¢ Only or Big Lots, hit Grocery
Outlet next and scope out the loss leaders from the Wednesday sales
ads (plus the Sunday glossy ads). Once those sources have been used I
fill in using Sam's Club or Costco.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Save Money When You Shop
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/088dc950e4b8244f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 3:02 pm
From: catlugger

Save Money When You Shop Get the Details Now: www.24hourwebcash.com/lewis5807

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Throw out your old caulk and paint
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/044915b50e696e42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 3:17 pm
From: "Tomes"

"Al Bundy" ...
> DIY Person wrote:
>> Last year I discovered a puddle of paint had formed in the garage under
>> the
>> cabinets where cans of paint are stored. Upon inspection I noticed that
>> a
>> can of white latex paint had rusted through the bottom of the can, making
>> a
>> big mess all over. I took all the cans of paint out, cleaned up the
>> mess,
>> and now the cans are in a box outside the cabinet. I looked at several of
>> the cans yesterday and most had rusty bottoms. I'm thinking of just
>> throwing it all away, even though some of the paint are custom colors.
>> I'll write down all the numbers and then toss it, it's just unusable
>> stuff.
>>
>> And then yesterday I sealed the corner joints of my kitchen countertop
>> using a brand new unopened tube of GE's best clear silicone. The tube had
>> a
>> best by 2005 date, but I figured it was never opened so it should be ok.
>> The texture did seem a little granular but otherwise flowed well.
>> Checking
>> the joints this morning I noticed the stuff was still completely wet.
>> According to the tube it should be tacky in 1 hour with a full cure in 24
>> hours. This stuff was still completely wet, no signs of setting at all.
>> I'll have to redo the whole job using a brand new tube of caulk.
>>
>> The moral of the story here is don't use old paint and caulk, even if
>> it's
>> unopened. Throw it out and buy new. And even if you don't use it all,
>> just
>> assume it won't be useable again. Always use fresh products for all your
>> home improvement projects.
>
> Always have extra supplies on hand for when a bad product is
> discovered. Rotate your stock. When something is far out of date, use
> it on a throwaway project. Store paint cans upside down and shake them
> up periodically.
> PS> I have had similar results with some GE silicone that was not out
> of date. It may have been defective from the start. The usual failure
> mode is that it won't come out of the tube.

Another thing one can do is to put the small amounts of leftover paint into
small clear jars and write the information on them with a Sharpie. You want
there to be as little air space in the jar as possible, as it is the air
that causes the paint to harden. Ensure that the jar is sealed up really
well. Using a clear jar also lets you see the color of the paint.
Tomes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Incandescent that avoids upcoming ban
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/93eae1e9abcb4fb3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:16 pm
From: krw

In article <slrng1t027.raj.don@manx.misty.com>, don@manx.misty.com
says...
> In article <MPG.2287d57fdc8ec011989bb4@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
> >In article <slrng1qhti.jg.don@manx.misty.com>, don@manx.misty.com
> >says...
> >> In <MPG.2286141e37608f74989ba6@news.individual.net>, krw wrote in part:
> >> >In article <66Odnb2hLKaDDYTVnZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> >> >jeff@spam_me_not.com says...
> >> >> krw wrote:
> >> >> > In article <DcidnWE0o86CjYXVnZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> >> >> > jeff@spam_me_not.com says...
> >>
> >> <I, don@misty.com, edit for space>
> >>
> >> >> You've been listening to way too much wingnut radio/tv. Such is right
> >> >> wing opinion in that it is all opinion and no facts. Just insult anyone
> >> >> who disagrees. Don't let reality get in the way.
> >> >
> >> >Absolutely the truth, which your "argument" falls well short of
> >> >addressing.
> >> >
> >> >> BTW, I have an old fashioned toilet because I live in an old house, but
> >> >> have no objection to the new design toilets. The new ones work, as
> >> >> opposed to the first generation.
> >> >
> >> >You like to spout government lies. I have a set of "new" ones.
> >> >They don't.
> >>
> >> I see so many 1.6 gallon/flush toilets nowadays that work as well as
> >> toilets ever did.
> >
> >I have two that need three flushes or they plug first.
> >
> >> This does have an effect on my consideration as to
> >> which side I would call a liar!
> >
> >Of course you say that, without facts. It doesn't fit your narrow
> >view of the world.
>
> Facts such as existence of plenty of 1.6 gallon/flush toilets that work
> as well as toilets ever did?

Those "facts" are certainly *NOT* in existence.

> I have seen plenty of those. Maybe you need
> some new toilets!

Perhaps I should tell my landlord.

> Meanwhile, even the lousy ones of the 1.6 GPF toilets still only need
> one flush for a #1 load.

And three or four (and a plunger) for anything else.

--
Keith

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:07 pm
From: max

In article <MPG.2288ae1947361fb9989bc6@news.individual.net>,
krw <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

> In article <slrng1t027.raj.don@manx.misty.com>, don@manx.misty.com
> says...
> > In article <MPG.2287d57fdc8ec011989bb4@news.individual.net>, krw wrote:
> > >In article <slrng1qhti.jg.don@manx.misty.com>, don@manx.misty.com
> > >says...
> > >> In <MPG.2286141e37608f74989ba6@news.individual.net>, krw wrote in part:
> > >> >In article <66Odnb2hLKaDDYTVnZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> > >> >jeff@spam_me_not.com says...
> > >> >> krw wrote:
> > >> >> > In article <DcidnWE0o86CjYXVnZ2dnUVZ_rKtnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> > >> >> > jeff@spam_me_not.com says...
> > >>
> > >> <I, don@misty.com, edit for space>
> > >>
> > >> >> You've been listening to way too much wingnut radio/tv. Such is right
> > >> >> wing opinion in that it is all opinion and no facts. Just insult
> > >> >> anyone
> > >> >> who disagrees. Don't let reality get in the way.
> > >> >
> > >> >Absolutely the truth, which your "argument" falls well short of
> > >> >addressing.
> > >> >
> > >> >> BTW, I have an old fashioned toilet because I live in an old house,
> > >> >> but
> > >> >> have no objection to the new design toilets. The new ones work, as
> > >> >> opposed to the first generation.
> > >> >
> > >> >You like to spout government lies. I have a set of "new" ones.
> > >> >They don't.
> > >>
> > >> I see so many 1.6 gallon/flush toilets nowadays that work as well as
> > >> toilets ever did.
> > >
> > >I have two that need three flushes or they plug first.
> > >
> > >> This does have an effect on my consideration as to
> > >> which side I would call a liar!
> > >
> > >Of course you say that, without facts. It doesn't fit your narrow
> > >view of the world.
> >
> > Facts such as existence of plenty of 1.6 gallon/flush toilets that work
> > as well as toilets ever did?
>
> Those "facts" are certainly *NOT* in existence.
>
> > I have seen plenty of those. Maybe you need
> > some new toilets!
>
> Perhaps I should tell my landlord.
>
> > Meanwhile, even the lousy ones of the 1.6 GPF toilets still only need
> > one flush for a #1 load.
>
> And three or four (and a plunger) for anything else.

really, this tells us a lot more about you (than we'd care to know!)
than the toilet...

--
This signature can be appended to your outgoing mesages. Many people include in
their signatures contact information, and perhaps a joke or quotation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHINA (WWW.OVERINSTOCK.NET ) WHOLESALE D&G PRADA HOGAN SNEAKERS AT
FACTORY PRICE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c964183f1272f4b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:35 pm
From: chinagood001@yahoo.cn

------------ WWW.OVERINSTOCK.NET -----
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Printer ink refill
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7ab1fd7d315af9c8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:56 pm
From: Gordon

"aesthete8@hotmail.com" <aesthete8@hotmail.com> wrote in news:bc5e6c7b-
c2ce-4835-b0b2-d83205c5775c@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com:

> Where do you go for yours?

Local shop. They do good work and use a good quality ink.
I actualy drive past 3 other shops to get to this one.
A local shop is better than getting a refill on-line.
If somthing goes wrong, you can always go in and bang your
fist on the counter untill you get some satisfaction. but,
I have never had to do that with this shop. They always
take care of me.

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25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 12:09 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> Jim
> I guess I still don't get it then. I use cash to buy my gas. The guy
> down the road charges two prices for gas. The price for cash paying
> customers such as myself is less than those using credit cards.

Interesting. That's not legal where I live.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:30 am
From: "Rod Speed"

William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Jim Elbrecht wrote
>>>>>>>> Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote

>>>>>>>>>> I believe it has to do with the VISA and MasterCard
>>>>>>>>>> pre-authorizations (I'm not sure if this is still the case,
>>>>>>>>>> but the MasterCard limit per transaction was set at $75.00).

>>>>>>>>> That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)

>>>>>>>> Makes more sense than ever. I get 3% off for using the card.
>>>>>>>> 3% of $4 gas is better than 3% of the $1 gas I was getting when I signed up.

>>>>>>> Not really, you (and everyone else who purchases stuff) is paying for your "rewards" because the merchant has to
>>>>>>> charge more.

>>>>>> Nope, the card companys get it from the interest they charge
>>>>>> the fools who dont pay off their cards in full every month.

>>>>> And they get a percentage of each sale from the merchant.

>>>> Much smaller percentage than they get from the fools who dont pay off their cards in full every month.

>>> So anyone with a bill such as car repair or a family emergency who can not pay in full is a fool?

>> What was being discussed was paying for GASOLINE, you stupid race track bum.

> Still holds true.

Wrong, as always, you stupid race track bum.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:54 am
From: George

Terri wrote:
> Jim Elbrecht <elbrecht@email.com> wrote in
> news:oopr14lhh96n3c0ftsaulfislf8up8jlqi@4ax.com:
>
>> Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in
>>> news:fflr14he7qelmkd9940981fmkafhvgbibp@4ax.com:
>> -snip-
>>>> I believe it has to do with the VISA and MasterCard pre-authorizations
>>>> (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but the MasterCard limit per
>>>> transaction was set at $75.00).
>>> That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)
>> Makes more sense than ever. I get 3% off for using the card. 3% of
>> $4 gas is better than 3% of the $1 gas I was getting when I signed up.
>>
>> Jim
> I guess I still don't get it then. I use cash to buy my gas. The guy
> down the road charges two prices for gas. The price for cash paying
> customers such as myself is less than those using credit cards.

Same here only slightly different. The megabanks pushed through
legislation in my state that prohibits a merchant from offering any
pricing that highlights their tribute. So there are totally separate
filling stations. Some are cash only and are always cheaper and then
there are the CC/cash places that can't offer a cash discount.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:59 am
From: "Chloe"

"Larry Caldwell" <firstnamelastinitial@peaksky.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22881dfc516fddb989e5a@news.peaksky.com...
> In article <oopr14lhh96n3c0ftsaulfislf8up8jlqi@4ax.com>,
> elbrecht@email.com (Jim Elbrecht) says...
>
>> Makes more sense than ever. I get 3% off for using the card. 3% of
>> $4 gas is better than 3% of the $1 gas I was getting when I signed up.
>
> Next month, Discover is offering 5% cash back on service station
> purchases. I think you have to go online to sign up at their web site.
> Then I use the cash back account to buy $25 B. Dalton/Waldenbooks gift
> cards for $20, which is another 5%. Then Walden Books has its own
> rewards program. What can I say? I buy a lot of books. Using a credit
> card for gas buys about $300 worth of books a year, at no additional
> cost to me.

If you want to save even more on books, you might be interested in

www.paperbackswap.com

I've been swapping there for over a year now and it's
saved me a ton of money.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:14 am
From: Elmo

Jan Flora wrote:
> In article <betatron-B86FF7.10584302052008@news.ftupet.com>,
> max <betatron@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <680oj4F2pglqvU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A lot of crude oil comes from ALASKA from property OWNED BY THE PEOPLE OF
>>> THE U.S...
>>>
>>> Yet the price of this crude oil is dictated by foreign countries.
>>>
>>> I say Alaska oil should only be sold in the U.S. for use by Americans and
>>> set at a reasonable price. It is OUR OIL!
>>>
>>> Write your elected representatives...
>>> (Ask those running for office if they represent "We the people" or big oil
>>> corporations.)
>>> http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml
>>
>> So, what you're saying is... American producers shouldn't get the best
>> price for their product and should be forced to pay a price set by the
>> government? How Hugo Chavez of you.
>>
>> .max
>
> Actually, Alaska crude belongs to the people of Alaska. The oil wells
> are on STATE land, not federal land.
>
> It's not YOUR oil, it's OURS.
>
> Jan in Alaska
And the pipeline?

--
Self-interest, caused by low selfish desire, is the root
cause of contemporary world chaos and individual misery.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:20 am
From: Elmo

SMS wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> A lot of crude oil comes from ALASKA from property OWNED BY THE PEOPLE
>> OF THE U.S...
>>
>> Yet the price of this crude oil is dictated by foreign countries.
>>
>> I say Alaska oil should only be sold in the U.S. for use by Americans
>> and set at a reasonable price. It is OUR OIL!
>
> When Arco and BP merged, they shut down one of their fields in Alaska
> because they just had too much oil. More than they could refine. It's
> not in their interest to produce as much as they can, and flood the
> market. In any case, the oil companies have been closing down refineries
> to limit refining capacity, to avoid a glut of gasoline. Nor will they
> sell these refineries to anyone else that wants to operate them.
>
> Of course the oil companies aren't alone in this sort of strategy, i.e.
> when Whole Foods opened a huge new store across the street from their
> old store, they said that they'd sell their old store, but with a deed
> restriction that it could not be operated as a supermarket. They don't
> want an Asian market coming in and selling produce for 1/4th of what
> Whole Foods charge (i.e. conventional, non-organic, navel oranges are
> 3lbs/99¢ at the Asian market, $1.33/lb at Whole Foods).
>
> The oil companies' investement in George W. Bush and the Republicans has
> paid off well for them.
>
>> Write your elected representatives...
>> (Ask those running for office if they represent "We the people" or big
>> oil corporations.)
>
> Why would you believe the answer?

The matter of refineries is enigmatic. Running a refinery is pretty
much like owning a money printing press but no one wants to build any
new refineries. While safety and maintenance should be a very important
matter (see also BP Houston), it stretches credibility to have them
running at 85-90% of design capacity most of the time. Reminds me of
how all of those California electrical generating plants were down for
maintenance just when the power was needed the most resulting in much
larger profits for the power brokers (no pun intended) like Enron than
would have been the case had there been plentiful power at lower cost.

--
Self-interest, caused by low selfish desire, is the root
cause of contemporary world chaos and individual misery.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:26 am
From: Elmo

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> On Sat, 03 May 2008 21:51:50 -0800, Jan Flora <snowshoe@xyz.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Although I'm opposed to opening ANWR at this time, for reasons other
>> than the price of oil & gasoline, no one, in fact, knows how much oil
>> there is in ANWR. All estimates are WAG's.
>>
>> My neighbor was on the drill rig that drilled test wells many, many
>> years ago. They signed confidentiality doc's before they got to work on
>> the rig. When we asked the neighbor if there was oil there, he wagged
>> his eyebrows. (That's Inupiat for "yes.") When we asked him if there was
>> a lot of oil there, he wagged his eyebrows a lot.
>>
>> So the neighbor said there's lots of oil there. Well, shit, any bonehead
>> that has studied sedimentary geology at all knows there's oil there --
>> the formation of the mountains in ANWR is Sadlerochit -- an oil bearing
>> formation. The name of the mountain range is the Sadlerochit Range, for
>> Pete's Sakes. Here's some photos -- (the photog. Roy Corral is a
>> local)--
>>
>> http://www.arcticrefugeart.org/gazetteer/sadlerochits_g.html
>>
>> Why aren't you guys talking about conservation, instead of drilling?
>> I've been waiting for the Bushies to talk about conservation. Good thing
>> I wasn't holding my breath.
>>
>> Why are so many people driving Hummers? I think anyone who wants to
>> drive a Hummer should be given one of their very own, to drive around in
>> Iraq. We'll also give them crummy body armor and an M-16 or whatever the
>> weapon of the day is.
>>
>> There are oil fields on Alaska's North Slope with FAR more oil potential
>> than ANWR, and they aren't in sensitive caribou and polar bear habitat.
>> FAR, FAR more potential for BIG oil. (I drink with the guys who drill
>> oil wells on the slope. I get this news first hand.) When the money is
>> right, ANWR will be opened and there's nothing we'll be able to do about
>> it. Polar bears and caribou be damned. And they will. Not to mention the
>> G'witch'in Indians who rely on the caribou for food, culture and life.
>>
>> If anyone wants to poke around, look up Sarah James from Arctic Village.
>> Her village is in ANWR.
>>
>> For Paul -- there was a big stink up here in Alaska in the last few
>> years that USGS wasn't allowed to report Actual Verifiable
>> Scientifically-based Information. The Bushies spun the info and
>> published what they wanted the reports to say, not what the scientists
>> really discovered. I know it's hard to believe that GW Bush would
>> actually lie to the American public, but he did. *sigh*
>>
>> Jan in Alaska
>
> Hi Jan,
>
> Thanks for sharing your insight and for providing a link to these
> pictures; they really underscore the area's immense beauty. I was
> somewhat reluctant to use the USGS estimate because, as you say,
> nobody really knows how much oil exists and, more specifically, how
> much is economically recoverable (e.g., to this point, the last time I
> checked, Shell's Alberta tar sands project was running three times
> over budget and their Sakhalin II costs had doubled to $20 billion).
> FWIW, I'm also told by industry insiders that the USGS tends to be
> somewhat "optimistic" in its assessments (political manipulation, as
> you suggest? .... paging Mr. Gale Norton... Mr. Norton to the courtesy
> phone). In any event, Americans would be ill-advised to squander what
> could very well be their last remaining reserve of domestic oil, for
> reasons of national security if nothing else, unless, of course, you
> plan to invade an oil-rich country, kill their citizenry and rob them
> blind..... opps, never mind. ;-)
>
> I have to admit I indulge in a little schadenfreude whenever I pull
> into a gas station and see all those Hummers, Tahoes and Excursions
> filling up at the pumps (what can I say, I have my weaknesses). I
> recently overheard one driver complain that the pump would only
> dispense up to $100.00 at a time! You almost want to put your arm
> around their shoulder and say "There, there, don't worry, there's an
> endless supply of cheap crude oil just waiting to be tapped and prices
> will heading back to a buck a gallon any day now. (*)
>

I recall when the pumps couldn't charge more than 99.9 cents per gallon.

--
You know what an El Cid Princess is, right? drive a big
SUV way too fast, don't care about running over animals,
tail gate you and blow the horn if you don't get out of
the way. They are more important than the rest of us and
cannot be bothered with life's inconveniences.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:30 am
From: Elmo

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> On 4 May 2008 16:08:46 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>
>> Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in
>> news:fflr14he7qelmkd9940981fmkafhvgbibp@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On 4 May 2008 14:48:42 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>>>> I asked one local gas station about that out of curiousity, as I
>>>> can't recall seeing that on the pumps before. I was told it was
>>>> a corporate decision and that it only means that after that the
>>>> pumps can be reset to dispense more. Why, I do not know but as
>>>> I'm a cynic I'm sure it has something to do with minimizing loss
>>>> reductions for the companies.
>>> Hi Terri,
>>>
>>> I believe it has to do with the VISA and MasterCard pre-authorizations
>>> (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but the MasterCard limit per
>>> transaction was set at $75.00).
>> That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)
>>
>
> Hi Terri,
>
> I suspect the widespread use of credit cards is the primary reason why
> higher gas prices haven't, as yet, fully registered on our collective
> consciousness. But sooner or later, we'll start to get the picture.
>

I've been thinking much the same -- when you're putting the purchase
price on a general-purpose charge card like Visa, the balance goes
up and the minimum payment goes up but it isn't like you had to reach
into your pocket and pull out dollars to pay.

>>> Here in Halifax, diesel is now selling for $1.43 per litre
>>> ($5.38/gallon), so you can hit this $100.00 limit in as little as 18.6
>>> gallons.
>> I have a friend in Halifax! Her husband is a philosophy Professor at the
>> nearby University. I hear your new sewage treatment system is working
>> well!
>
> Halifax is a great city and I hope someday you'll have the opportunity
> to see it for yourself (and, yes, our new sewage treatment system is a
> welcome addition, indeed). Here's a quick introduction to get you
> started:
>
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=sshM02j_YaQ
>
> Cheers,
> Paul

--
The majority are misguided and ruled by some self-styled
leaders, who seek the limelight by fair means or foul.
They do not want the Truth, lest they lose their selfish
ends and be out of the picture. So, in order to be in the
public eye, they invent lies, concoct stories, distort
facts, and, in the name of public service, they present
these lies before the public. The public is misled either
because they are big names or by the very tricks of the
originators, who have the ability to misrepresent facts with
sensational talks that influence the weakness of the mass mind.

It is the same all over the world -- a game of winning and
losing -- the inevitable struggle for existence is in all
departments and aspects of life. The struggle goes on and on
in religion, politics, morality, ethics, business, industry,
et cetera, at different times and places, in different ways,
according to the conditions.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:36 am
From: Elmo

SMS wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>> You have to mark up your prices to cover the costs of credit cards.
>> And either by law in some states and typically always in your merchant
>> agreement you can't offer a cash discount
>
> Cash discounts are fine. Surcharges for credit cards are not. I've
> noticed a lot of independent gas stations have started having lower
> prices for cash again, something that went away for quite a while.
It's been a while since I saw a surcharge for credit card in a gas
station. I remember hearing that when a merchant signs up to use
major credit cards, they also agree not to offer a cash discount. So
people who pay cash are still paying that 2-3% processing fee.

--
They're locking them up today they're throwing away the key
I wonder who it'll be tomorrow you or me.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:39 am
From: Elmo

William Souden wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>> Jim Elbrecht wrote
>>>> Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote
>>>>> Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote
>>
>>>>>> I believe it has to do with the VISA and MasterCard
>>>>>> pre-authorizations (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but
>>>>>> the MasterCard limit per transaction was set at $75.00).
>>
>>>>> That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)
>>
>>>> Makes more sense than ever. I get 3% off for using the card. 3%
>>>> of $4 gas is better than 3% of the $1 gas I was getting when I
>>>> signed up.
>>
>>> Not really, you (and everyone else who purchases stuff) is paying for
>>> your "rewards" because the merchant has to charge more.
>>
>> Nope, the card companys get it from the interest they charge
>> the fools who dont pay off their cards in full every month.
>>
> And they get a percentage of each sale from the merchant.
And they call people who pay them off promptly "freeloaders" and
other epithets.

--
This is an election year. By common law,
the truth is legally suspended.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:43 am
From: Elmo

Larry Caldwell wrote:
> In article <bosTj.239$yg5.119@newsfe06.lga>, bashley101+usenet@gmail.com
> (The Real Bev) says...
>
>> Amex has gone back to giving 5% off gas. One more damn card to carry.
>> My stack is half an inch thick now. No, they're not all credit cards.
>> There's the library, the laundry, medical stuff, a couple of
>> gift-certificate cards and more.
>
> I have gone to two wallets. One is just essentials - cash, my ATM card,
> auto insurance card, etc.; stuff I don't want to be without. The other
> wallet is for everything else. Often times, it stays home. When I
> carry it, having two wallets evens out the lumps in my pockets.
>
I have the drivers license and medical insurance card in a separate
little folder that gets stuffed into the coin purse. That way if when
I'm on the bicycle I have what they'll need to identify me if I get
crunched by some jagoff in a gas guzzler and if I happen to make it to
the ER alive, they'll be more likely to try to save my dead ass.

--
Self-interest, caused by low selfish desire, is the root
cause of contemporary world chaos and individual misery.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: one time please visit my websiteone time see the sitehttp://shabinainfo.
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c276a93281d39a7b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 12:26 am
From: r.selvam1@gmail.com

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:15 am
From: myshoesbiz77@yahoo.com.cn

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TOPIC: See Sexy Alicia Keys Photos! the Home of Hip Hop
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/52f96375a25e3c39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:34 am
From: sureka

See Sexy Alicia Keys Photos! the Home of Hip Hop

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Aloe Vera for Digestive Problems
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b51b288d19ce04f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 2:56 am
From: Alya

Aloe Vera for Digestive Problems

You have probably heard that aloe vera can help with any of Digestive
Problems. However, the truth is that only the purest, most potent,
aloe vera will have a noticeable effect on your life.

Digestive problems such as:

- IBD (Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis)
- IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome)
- Food sensitivities
- Peptic ulcers
- GORD/GERD (Gastro-Oesophageal Reflux Disease)

1. IBD (Inflammatory Bowel Disease)

If you suffer from IBD then you may be all too familiar with the
uncomfortable symptoms both Crohn's disease and Ulcerative Colitis can
cause. From abdominal pain, fatigue and diarrhea right through to
nausea and rectal bleeding, you may feel like you never want to leave
the house and face the outside world.

2. IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome)

If you suffer from Irritable Bowel Syndrome you have probably been
suffering from diarrhea and constipation, perhaps alternating between
the two. You have probably also found this leads to and causes
uncomfortable symptoms such as abdominal pain, bloating, and sharp
pains inside your rectum.

3. Food Sensitivities

Living with a food sensitivity can be a frustrating and depressing
experience.

Constantly checking the ingredients of everything you eat to make sure
you do not ingest anything that could give you stomach cramps, nausea
or diarrhea can be disheartening experience.

Eating out at restaurants becomes very difficult and you find yourself
sticking to a plain, boring diet.

4. Peptic Ulcers

Eighty percent of gastric ulcers and 90% of duodenal ulcers are caused
by the bacterium Helicobacter Pylori. Other factors are stress,
smoking, caffeine, alcohol, non-steroid-anti-inflammatory drugs
(NSAIDs), hydrochloric acid and pepsin.

If you are living with ulcers then you are probably experiencing some
of the most common symptoms which include a gnawing, burning pain in
your abdomen between your breastbone and your navel.

5. GORD/GERD

Gastro-oesophageal Reflux Disease is a condition which allows gastric
acids to reflux into the food pipe causing heartburn, acid indigestion
and possible injury to the oesophageal lining.

If you suffer from GORD/GERD then you may feel hoarseness in the
morning or have trouble swallowing - feeling like you have food stuck
in your throat or your throat is tight.

Regards,
http://pronatural.blogspot.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:04 am
From: Al Bundy

On May 5, 5:56 am, Alya <alyat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Aloe Vera for Digestive Problems
>
> You have probably heard that aloe vera can help with any of Digestive
> Problems. However, the truth is that only the purest, most potent,
> aloe vera will have a noticeable effect on your life.
>
> Digestive problems such as:
>
> - IBD (Crohn's Disease and Ulcerative Colitis)
> - IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome)
> - Food sensitivities
> - Peptic ulcers
> - GORD/GERD (Gastro-Oesophageal Reflux Disease)
>
When something is supposed to cure everything, it usually cures
nothing. Put a little aloe on a cut to feel better. That's about it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hot Shop Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport - Seiko Minimum Price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a34f076f51810a82?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 4:38 am
From: yxs060@gmail.com

Hot Shop Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport - Seiko Minimum Price

Hot Watch Shop : http://www.hotwatchshop.com
Seiko Watches : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Watches.html
Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Le-Grand-Sport-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport All Products :

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Titanium Watch #SLC033 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7501.html

Men's Seiko Le Grand Sport Quartz Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7502.html

Men's Seiko Le Grand Sport Retrograde Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7503.html

Men's Seiko Le Grand Sport Quartz Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7504.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Watch #SKK536 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7505.html

Men's Titanium Le Grand Sport by Seiko :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7506.html

Men's Seiko Le Grand Sport Retrograde Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7507.html

Seiko Le Grand Sport Stainless Steel Mens Watch SRK009 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7508.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Steel Watch SKK536 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7509.html

Seiko Men's Diamond Le Grand Sport Watch #SGEA45 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7510.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Watch #SKK512 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7511.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Watch #SLC028 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7512.html

Seiko Le Grand Sport Two-Tone Mens Watch SRK010 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7513.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Watch #SGE653 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7514.html

Men's Gray Dial Le Grand Sport Watch by Seiko :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7515.html

Men's Gray Dial Stainless Le Grand Sport Watch by Seiko :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7516.html

New! Seiko Wrist Watches - Seiko Le Grand Sport Retrograde Day
Indicator Diamond Stainless White Dial Men's Watch SRL001 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7517.html

Seiko Le Grand Sport Collection Alarm Chronograph Men's Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7518.html

Seiko Le Grand Sport Gold Tone Mens Watch SRK012 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7519.html

Seiko Le Grand Sport Men's Silver Patterned Dial Coin Edge 2- Tone
Watch SKK512 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7520.html

Seiko Le Grand Sport Men's Silver Patterned Dial Coin Edge Watch
SKK511 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7521.html

Seiko Le Grand Sport Men's White Patterned Dial Coin Edge Gold Watch
SKK514 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7522.html

Seiko Men's Gold Le Grand Sport Watch SKK514 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7523.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Collection watch #SRL002 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7524.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Alarm Chronograph :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7525.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Alarm Chronograph Watch #SKK538 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7526.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Kinetic Watch #SKA233 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7527.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Kinetic Watch #SKA234 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7528.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Stainless Steel Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7529.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Two Tone Watch SKK638 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7530.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Watch #SKK511 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7531.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport Watch #SKK514 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7532.html

Seiko Men's Stainless Steel watch #SKK511 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7533.html

Seiko Silver Dial Le Grand Sport SGE777 Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7534.html

Seiko SLC028 Men's Le Grand Sport :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7535.html

Seiko Srk009 Le Grand Sport Mens Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7536.html

Seiko Srk010 Le Grand Sport Mens Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7537.html

Seiko Two Tone Le Grand Sport SGE766 Watch :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7538.html

Seiko Wrist Watches-New Seiko Le Grand Sport Men's Watch Black Dial
Gold Tone SKK640 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7539.html

Seiko Wrist Watches-Seiko Le Grand Sport Titanium Men's Watch SLC033 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7540.html

Seiko Wrist Watches-Seiko Le Grand Sport Two-Tone Men's Watch, White
SLC028 :

http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-wristwatch-7541.html

The Same Seiko Watches Series :

Seiko Alarm Chronograph : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Alarm-Chronograph-Watch.html

Seiko Aviation : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Aviation-Watch.html

Seiko Chronograph : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Chronograph-Watch.html

Seiko Diver : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Diver-Watch.html

Seiko Honda F1 Racing : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Honda-F1-Racing-Watch.html

Seiko Kinetic : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Kinetic-Watch.html

Seiko Men's 5 Series : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-5-Series-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Arctura : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Arctura-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Coutura : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Coutura-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Gold : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Gold-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Le Grand Sport : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Le-Grand-Sport-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Premier : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Premier-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Seikoflex : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Seikoflex-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Sportura : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Sportura-Watch.html

Seiko Men's Velatura : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Mens-Velatura-Watch.html

Seiko Perpetual Calendar : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Perpetual-Calendar-Watch.html

Seiko Women's 5 Series : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Womens-5-Series-Watch.html

Seiko Women's Coutura : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Womens-Coutura-Watch.html

Seiko Women's Gold : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Womens-Gold-Watch.html

Seiko Women's Le Grand Sport : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Womens-Le-Grand-Sport-Watch.html

Seiko Women's Premier : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Womens-Premier-Watch.html

Seiko Women's Seikoflex : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Womens-Seikoflex-Watch.html

Seiko Women's Velatura : http://www.hotwatchshop.com/Seiko-Womens-Velatura-Watch.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: W-W-W.SNEAKER-OUTLET.-C-N CHINA WHOLESALE CHEAP AF1 JORDAN 3 4 12
FUSION SHOES ETC
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/881a13b84802133c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:10 am
From: chinagood999@163.com

CHINA WHOLESALE CHEAP AIR FORCE 1S JORDAN 3 4 5 12 23 FUSION SHOES AND
MORE BRAND GOODS FROM W+W+W.SNEAKER-OUTLET.+C+N

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:15 am
From: "aesthete8@hotmail.com"

Where do you go for yours?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 5:26 am
From: "Dave"

<aesthete8@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc5e6c7b-c2ce-4835-b0b2-d83205c5775c@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Where do you go for yours?

If you're still using a printer that can be refilled with ink, the frugal
thing to do is replace it with a laser printer. One cartridge lasts several
years. -Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Question about nitrogen in tires
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2132459f8bac24a8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 6:10 am
From: BillGill

pc wrote:
> Greetings group..
>
> I've seen a little bit here and there about filling tires with nitrogen.
> Any opinions?
> What are the costs?
> Where did you get it?
> If you have a slow leak can you mix regular air into it?
>
> ..PC
I did some internet research on this a while back. Mostly I found fluff
about how great it is, by the people selling the systems. I finally found
a report on tire inflation by Goodyear (I think). It was for their truck
tires. In the report they said that they only recommended nitrogen for certain
off-road heavy equipment. They didn't recommend it for their over-the-road
tires. I reckon that pretty much says it all right there.

Bill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CHINA (www.overinstock.net ) WHOLESALE AFI JORDAN 5 12 23 FUSION SHOUS
AT FACTORY PRICE
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/91241b73ddf30717?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 6:31 am
From: chinagood168@163.com

------------www.overinstock.net -----
Discount Coach Sandals, Dior Sandals, Prada Sandals, Chanel Sandals,
Versace Sandals, Crocs Sandals, Women's Sandals Men's Slippers From
China
Affliction T-shirts lacoste T-shirts Polo T-shirts Brand ShirtsGGG T-
shirts Designer T-Shirts Helen Coat burberry coat Cheap Jacket Juicy
Couture bbc hoodies bape hoodies Cheap Designer Hoodies NFL NHL NBA
MLB Jersey

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 6:38 am
From: RogBaker@gmail.com

Did Netflix just raise their plan prices starting in May? I was
thinking about joining, so I have been checking out their plans
lately. When I decided to join, it was at the end of April, maybe the
26th or so. I wanted to wait until May because I didn't know their
billing cycle, and did not want to pay fo the month of April if I
would not get to use it hardly. Now, I go to sign up on May 2, and the
2 movie at a time, unlimited per month is now $13.99. I swear, it used
to be $8.99 several days ago. I called them up to see if they would
give it to me, but they claim they haven't raised their prices.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 6:45 am
From: "Dave"

<RogBaker@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:330e682e-1f42-43c7-925a-d897936c9dcc@w74g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Did Netflix just raise their plan prices starting in May? I was
> thinking about joining, so I have been checking out their plans
> lately. When I decided to join, it was at the end of April, maybe the
> 26th or so. I wanted to wait until May because I didn't know their
> billing cycle, and did not want to pay fo the month of April if I
> would not get to use it hardly. Now, I go to sign up on May 2, and the
> 2 movie at a time, unlimited per month is now $13.99. I swear, it used
> to be $8.99 several days ago. I called them up to see if they would
> give it to me, but they claim they haven't raised their prices.

Google redbox

Fuck netflix, you could get almost 14 movies from redbox for the monthly
netflix fee. -Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: horns and roars of any kind are not welcome
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/289bcedc5b3b7957?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 6:53 am
From: ComandanteBanana

QUOTE(Keith C. Johns @ May 5 2008, 12:10 AM)
"But this thread is about ALL uses of the horn, not just by aggressive
drivers, and horn blows ARE used by good drivers as part of good
driving technique when used to alert others of their presence, and
other polite uses already mentioned. And it is useful to be able to
interpret the meaning behind these horn sounds and not get angry when
the message was not intended to be unfriendly. If you just assume that
any horn blow is mean spirited, you will probably be misinterpreting
many of these and possibly create conflicts with an aggressive
response. Better to realize that all horn blows are not bad, even
including some by drivers of FSUVs."

Well, I see some rare instances where blowing the horn may become
necessary, but I don't see the need to use to give so many different
messages that riders would have to decipher. When you are concentrated
in your thing, or tired from riding, you don't need to be guessing
people's intentions. And chances are you'll feel intimidated when you
have several tons of steel next to you...

Wouldn't it better to educate the drivers NOT to blow the horn at
cyclists?

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

10 new messages in 2 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Incandescent that avoids upcoming ban - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/93eae1e9abcb4fb3?hl=en
* Gas Prices - 9 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0ee1641a39c5a013?hl=en

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 9:32 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <sh0t149v089q55d9h2t75gbf1hpl9aj5hj@4ax.com>, Paul M. Eldridge wrote:

>Hi Don,
>
>Our firm is pretty much using 5,000K exclusively now; mostly Osram
>Sylvania XPS. I wasn't initially convinced it was appropriate beyond
>the shop floor, but it's been very well received right across the
>board -- at the risk of making this sound like a laundry detergent ad,
>everything looks "fresher", "cleaner" and "brighter".
>
>I use 6,500K in outdoor applications (they, in turn, makes the 5,000K
>lamps look somewhat dingy) and I'd be curious to see how they'd look
>in a commercial setting. I'd also like to try out the new 8,000Ks
>too, but my partners are not as keen on the idea.
>
>FWIW, I use SPX30s in my own home (living areas) and SPX50s in the
>utility room.

I have seen a few retail establishments with 6500K.

I remember recently seeing one that still does. Now, doggone it, I
can't remember who/what/where! But I'm pretty sure it was T8 6500K.

Then there are two others that I remember better as to who they were and
where they were. One was a copy shop using 6500K "Daylight"
(halophosphor) lamps. They moved to a nearby location and did not take
6500K with them; now they use 4100K. The other is a jewelry store that
used 6500K triphosphor (uncertain about bulb diameter however), but they
recently went out of business - my speculation is the owner(s) retiring.

All of these places appeared to me icy and at least slightly "stark",
and the one with the halophosphors also had some "dreary gray effect".

In my experience, 6500K lamps are more bluish than most overcast sky,
even though that is widely said to be 6500K. I seem to think that
overcast sky should be close to the color temperature of sunlight in
space, and I see varying numbers for that - with 5780K appearing to me to
make a good case there.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 10:02 pm
From: The Real Bev

Larry Caldwell wrote:

> user132384@aol.com (caloo calay) says...
>
>> Small cars are less safe than big cars. Get whacked in a small car
>> and have a llifetime of pain. No fun.
>
> Not according to Consumer Reports. In crash tests, SUVs and light
> trucks were significantly more dangerous to drive than a conventional
> compact car.

More rollovers?

--
Cheers, Bev
================================
Eat right. Stay fit. Die anyway.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 10:06 pm
From: The Real Bev

Larry Caldwell wrote:

> In article <bosTj.239$yg5.119@newsfe06.lga>, bashley101+usenet@gmail.com
> (The Real Bev) says...
>
>> Amex has gone back to giving 5% off gas. One more damn card to carry.
>> My stack is half an inch thick now. No, they're not all credit cards.
>> There's the library, the laundry, medical stuff, a couple of
>> gift-certificate cards and more.
>
> I have gone to two wallets. One is just essentials - cash, my ATM card,
> auto insurance card, etc.; stuff I don't want to be without. The other
> wallet is for everything else. Often times, it stays home. When I
> carry it, having two wallets evens out the lumps in my pockets.

My handbag weighs 7 pounds; an extra wallet would just add a couple
more ounces. There are times I've gone out with only keys, a credit
card, my driver's license and a $20 bill, but it just feels WRONG.

I really like those indestructable nylon wallets with the velcro
fasteners, although eventually the velcro gives out. What I don't
understand is why they don't make the flaps longer to allow for stuffing
that sucker with cards and change.

--
Cheers, Bev
================================
Eat right. Stay fit. Die anyway.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 10:07 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Jim Elbrecht wrote
>>>>>> Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote
>>>>>>> Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote

>>>>>>>> I believe it has to do with the VISA and MasterCard
>>>>>>>> pre-authorizations (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but
>>>>>>>> the MasterCard limit per transaction was set at $75.00).

>>>>>>> That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)

>>>>>> Makes more sense than ever. I get 3% off for using the card. 3% of $4 gas is better than 3% of the $1 gas I was
>>>>>> getting when I signed up.

>>>>> Not really, you (and everyone else who purchases stuff) is paying
>>>>> for your "rewards" because the merchant has to charge more.

>>>> Nope, the card companys get it from the interest they charge
>>>> the fools who dont pay off their cards in full every month.

>>> And they get a percentage of each sale from the merchant.

>> Much smaller percentage than they get from the fools who dont pay off their cards in full every month.

> So anyone with a bill such as car repair or a family emergency who can not pay in full is a fool?

What was being discussed was paying for GASOLINE, you stupid race track bum.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 11:07 pm
From: SMS

Terri wrote:

> That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)

Why would you think that?

The cheapest place to buy gas in my area is Costco. Not only doe the
Costco Amex card give a 3% rebate(consumer card) or 5% rebate (business
card), you can't pay with cash even if you wanted to. It's debit or
credit card (only Amex) only. At $3.80 a gallon, that 5% rebate is a 19¢
per gallon rebate.

In fact, even though Arco has the cheapest gasoline after Costco, you
have to pay cash, or pay a fee to use a debit card, so Arco ends up
being more expensive than some of the other stations that take credit
cards at no extra fee. Since Arco limits the prices that their
franchisees can charge for gasoline, it would be impossible for them to
take credit cards with the gas prices so high because the credit card
fees per gallon are nearly equal to the retailer's mark-up per gallon
(which is a fixed amount per gallon over the wholesale cost, not a
percentage). All the money is being made by the refineries, and the
lessees of the oil fields, not by the retailers.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 11:11 pm
From: SMS

h wrote:

> Umm, the rewards are from the credit card issuer, not the merchant. I'm a
> merchant, and I have no idea who uses a rewards card and who doesn't.
> Rewards don't affect merchants' costs one bit, unless the merchant is also
> the issuer of the card (Sears, etc.)

I noticed that some credit card processors process rewards cards at a
higher rate than non-rewards cards, so it does cost the merchant extra.
I.e, "http://www.novainfo.com/costco/index.asp". It may be that the
processors that charge higher rates for _all_ cards, don't differentiate
between rewards and non-rewards cards.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 11:12 pm
From: SMS

George wrote:

> You have to mark up your prices to cover the costs of credit cards. And
> either by law in some states and typically always in your merchant
> agreement you can't offer a cash discount

Cash discounts are fine. Surcharges for credit cards are not. I've
noticed a lot of independent gas stations have started having lower
prices for cash again, something that went away for quite a while.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 11:24 pm
From: SMS

The Real Bev wrote:

> Amex has gone back to giving 5% off gas. One more damn card to carry.
> My stack is half an inch thick now. No, they're not all credit cards.
> There's the library, the laundry, medical stuff, a couple of
> gift-certificate cards and more.

The Amex card is also a Costco card, so it's really not an extra card. I
try to cut back on cards periodically. One Amex/Costco (5% on gas/1% on
everything) and one Visa (2% rebate on everything) seems to be
sufficient for credit cards, at least domestically. For international
use, I use a Visa card where the bank isn't adding any extra fees on top
of Visa's 1% fee, and there are only a few Visa card issuers that don't
add those extra garbage fees.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, May 4 2008 11:49 pm
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> William Souden <souden@nospam.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Jim Elbrecht wrote
>>>>>>> Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote
>>>>>>>> Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldridge@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>> I believe it has to do with the VISA and MasterCard
>>>>>>>>> pre-authorizations (I'm not sure if this is still the case, but
>>>>>>>>> the MasterCard limit per transaction was set at $75.00).
>
>>>>>>>> That makes sense. (Even if using a credit card to buy gas doesn't.)
>
>>>>>>> Makes more sense than ever. I get 3% off for using the card. 3% of $4 gas is better than 3% of the $1 gas I was
>>>>>>> getting when I signed up.
>
>>>>>> Not really, you (and everyone else who purchases stuff) is paying
>>>>>> for your "rewards" because the merchant has to charge more.
>
>>>>> Nope, the card companys get it from the interest they charge
>>>>> the fools who dont pay off their cards in full every month.
>
>>>> And they get a percentage of each sale from the merchant.
>
>>> Much smaller percentage than they get from the fools who dont pay off their cards in full every month.
>
>> So anyone with a bill such as car repair or a family emergency who can not pay in full is a fool?
>
> What was being discussed was paying for GASOLINE, you stupid race track bum.
>
>
Still holds true. Some people who, unlike you, work and have bills
can not pay in full each month.
Welfare boy, did you see the Derby? Did the customers look like bums?

William Souden

sales fool/ race track bum

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, May 5 2008 12:09 am
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting. That's not legal where I live.

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Monday, May 5, 2008

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