Frugal Living: Nov 20, 2008

Thursday, November 20, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 19 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Doorbell always uses electricity!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3198294a289e9e57?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 4:09 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:

>>>
>> I had a friend some years ago who ran the communications
>> division of the local power company. This was back when
>> they had HF radios for communications and the techs actually
>> had to know something about electronics. They would get
>> electronic interference complaints which were often traced
>> to doorbell transformers. It was a very common problem and
>> one that many people don't even think of today.
>>
>> TDD
>
>
> Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
>
> If it was "a very common problem", can you offer a cite proving that a
> 60 hz transformer and 10-50 feet of unshielded wire with 24 vac on it
> can cause interference at radio frequencies?
>
> Wouldn't you expect that if that story was true those big pole pig
> transformers and all that higher voltage wiring running on the poles on
> nearly every street would have caused the radios to melt? <G>
>
> Jeff
>

According to the FCC Interference Handbook, defective doorbell
transformers are often a source of interference to TVs and other
household electronics. It may be a neighbor's transformer. I think it
happens when part of the core comes loose and vibrates.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 5:26 pm
From: Dave Garland

E Z Peaces wrote:
> If I went wireless again, I use an outlet-powered receiver. I'd be
> concerned about its service life and how much power it sucked.

I've had one in service for at least a decade. It's outlasted several
of the button/transmitter units. And a second (upstairs) for 3-4 years.
The nameplate current is 50ma (which would be 6W) on one, and about
twice that on the other, but I think that must be when actually making
noise, as I couldn't measure *any* current drain.

Dave

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 5:40 pm
From: aemeijers

E Z Peaces wrote:
> Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
>>>>
>>> I had a friend some years ago who ran the communications
>>> division of the local power company. This was back when
>>> they had HF radios for communications and the techs actually
>>> had to know something about electronics. They would get
>>> electronic interference complaints which were often traced
>>> to doorbell transformers. It was a very common problem and
>>> one that many people don't even think of today.
>>>
>>> TDD
>>
>>
>> Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
>>
>> If it was "a very common problem", can you offer a cite proving that a
>> 60 hz transformer and 10-50 feet of unshielded wire with 24 vac on it
>> can cause interference at radio frequencies?
>>
>> Wouldn't you expect that if that story was true those big pole pig
>> transformers and all that higher voltage wiring running on the poles
>> on nearly every street would have caused the radios to melt? <G>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
> According to the FCC Interference Handbook, defective doorbell
> transformers are often a source of interference to TVs and other
> household electronics. It may be a neighbor's transformer. I think it
> happens when part of the core comes loose and vibrates.

I'm no EE, but I would guess that most of the in-house interference is
back down along the power lines, not through the air. I know that on the
baby shortwave I use to AM-band DX myself to sleep at night, when some
unknown something in my house (or one of the neighbor's houses on the
same pole can) is running, I can't get S**t to come in. But if I unplug
the wall wart and run on batteries it comes in fine, as long as the
unplugged cord is over a foot from the radio. Intermittent as hell, and
annoying.

--
aem sends...

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 5:48 pm
From: Dave Garland

Bill wrote:
> And what was your electric bill last month?
>
> My electric bill is about $120 less each month because of things I have done

Eek! My electric bill is around $40-45 total for my house, and I've got
an old refrigerator and several computers that run 24/7. But gas heat.

Dave

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 6:32 pm
From: Boden

E Z Peaces wrote:
> Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>
>
>>>>
>>> I had a friend some years ago who ran the communications
>>> division of the local power company. This was back when
>>> they had HF radios for communications and the techs actually
>>> had to know something about electronics. They would get
>>> electronic interference complaints which were often traced
>>> to doorbell transformers. It was a very common problem and
>>> one that many people don't even think of today.
>>>
>>> TDD
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
>>
>> If it was "a very common problem", can you offer a cite proving that a
>> 60 hz transformer and 10-50 feet of unshielded wire with 24 vac on it
>> can cause interference at radio frequencies?
>>
>> Wouldn't you expect that if that story was true those big pole pig
>> transformers and all that higher voltage wiring running on the poles
>> on nearly every street would have caused the radios to melt? <G>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
> According to the FCC Interference Handbook, defective doorbell
> transformers are often a source of interference to TVs and other
> household electronics. It may be a neighbor's transformer. I think it
> happens when part of the core comes loose and vibrates.

If the Guberment says so it must be so. I just don't believe it.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:41 pm
From: E Z Peaces

Boden wrote:
> E Z Peaces wrote:
>> Jeff Wisnia wrote:
>>
>>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>> I had a friend some years ago who ran the communications
>>>> division of the local power company. This was back when
>>>> they had HF radios for communications and the techs actually
>>>> had to know something about electronics. They would get
>>>> electronic interference complaints which were often traced
>>>> to doorbell transformers. It was a very common problem and
>>>> one that many people don't even think of today.
>>>>
>>>> TDD
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that.
>>>
>>> If it was "a very common problem", can you offer a cite proving that
>>> a 60 hz transformer and 10-50 feet of unshielded wire with 24 vac on
>>> it can cause interference at radio frequencies?
>>>
>>> Wouldn't you expect that if that story was true those big pole pig
>>> transformers and all that higher voltage wiring running on the poles
>>> on nearly every street would have caused the radios to melt? <G>
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>
>> According to the FCC Interference Handbook, defective doorbell
>> transformers are often a source of interference to TVs and other
>> household electronics. It may be a neighbor's transformer. I think
>> it happens when part of the core comes loose and vibrates.
>
> If the Guberment says so it must be so. I just don't believe it.

Several electric utilities say so. It can also come from microarcs in
transformers on poles. When they get a complaint, they check poles with
an ultrasound detector to pick up noise from an arc.

When a doorbell transformer fails, I imagine it's usually an open
primary. When it first opens, I imagine the vibration of the
transformer could keep the break arcing indefinitely.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chinese antique
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e627402e5a9fa8f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 5:04 pm
From: 588

Chinese antique
world first, the antique chinaware series please watch!
Entire fidelity 100% Antique (1912-1949) Republic of China porcelain
teapot 888 chinawares 400 please watching!
Website http://www.xjx588.com
E-mail xjx_588@tom.com
City Shengzhou Zhejiang China

全球唯一、古董瓷器系列民国瓷茶壶888把请观赏！
全球唯一、全保真古董瓷器系列民国纯手执瓷茶壶888把、瓷器400件请观赏。
古艺轩古董收藏之都
网站：http://www.xjx588.com
电邮：xjx_588@tom.com
电话：0575-83103731
手机：13002632782

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How you can save fuel and the environment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/29147f37f33b890a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 5:17 pm
From: "Lou"

"The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:df6Vk.21905$9Z6.1318@newsfe01.iad...
> Lou wrote:
>
> > On the contrary - tests conducted by the SAE have shown that air
> > conditioning in general use more gas than rolling down the windows, on
the
> > test vehicles at any rate. See
> > http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2004-hill.pdf for
instance - I
> > think the most telling part is the graphs on pages 14 and 15.
>
> I don't trust what somebody writes who isn't smart enough to hire a
> proofreader for the title page.
>

Well, to my mind it should be "effect" not "affect". But Webster's defines
affect as "to produce an effect upon" and for usage directs us to "see
EFFECT", so I guess the word choice isn't actually incorrect. I think the
title is rather awkwardly phrased, but hey, they're engineers not literary
giants, and I think the intended meaning comes across without difficulty.
And there's the old saw about not judging a book by it's cover, which
probably could stand a little updating to bring it up to date in the digital
age.

Or did you have some other critique of the title page?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 6:42 pm
From: The Real Bev

Lou wrote:

> "The Real Bev" <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lou wrote:
>>
>>> On the contrary - tests conducted by the SAE have shown that air
>>> conditioning in general use more gas than rolling down the
>>> windows, on the test vehicles at any rate. See
>>> http://www.sae.org/events/aars/presentations/2004-hill.pdf for
>>> instance - I think the most telling part is the graphs on pages
>>> 14 and 15.
>>
>> I don't trust what somebody writes who isn't smart enough to hire a
>> proofreader for the title page.
>>
> Well, to my mind it should be "effect" not "affect". But Webster's
> defines affect as "to produce an effect upon" and for usage directs
> us to "see EFFECT", so I guess the word choice isn't actually
> incorrect. I think the title is rather awkwardly phrased, but hey,
> they're engineers not literary giants,

Doesn't matter. I used to work next to a PhD who wrote learned papers
in which he would make up new words -- which he asked me to spell for
him. In my book he got extra points for that.

> and I think the intended
> meaning comes across without difficulty. And there's the old saw
> about not judging a book by it's cover, which probably could stand a
> little updating to bring it up to date in the digital age.
>
> Or did you have some other critique of the title page?

No, that was it. I'm becoming sensitized to this stuff. Even our local
newspaper headlines use an apostrophe to make a noun plural. People
used to think that using English correctly was important. Some still
do. In my experience, people who screw up the language screw up the
facts and the interpretations.

If you're smart enough you realize there are things you don't know and
try to find some remedy -- like hiring a proofreader. Come on, isn't
the Chinese spam more annoying because they didn't even bother to find a
native English speaker to look at their spew?

--
Cheers,
Bev
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Do not try to solve all life's problems at once -- learn to
dread each day as it comes. -- Donald Kaul

==============================================================================
TOPIC: anyone make a wifi finder with internet telephone capabilities?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81d9c571716583a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:11 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <gg4ddp$uut$2@aioe.org>, OhioGuy <none@none.net> wrote:

> > Not for $200 but closer to $299-359 you can buy one of those nifty new
> > micro PC's. I picked up one at Target recently. The Asus EeePC runs
>
>
> Hmm - was hoping for something a bit smaller. Anyone used a pocket
> pc with voip?
>
> Doesn't absolutely HAVE to be Yahoo Messenger, but I would prefer it
> to be able to use any available Windows CE app. If I don't like one, I
> could try something else.

An Apple iPhone or an iPod touch might do what you want.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (Www.nike3a.com)Cheap Nike Shoes, Cheap Sneakers, Nike Sneakers, Cheap
Shoes, Nike Wholesale
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3fa54784ece431a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:13 pm
From: newshoesweb

wholesale nike sb,nike tns,nike air max 360,Air Max 2003 ，Air Max
360 ,nike rare,nike air max90,nike air max 90 360, Air Max TN3 ，Air
Max TN6 ，Air Max LTD
Air Force 1 low ，Air Force 1 mid，Air Force 1 high ，Air Force 1 25 .all
the shoes from us are authentic quality & original box. With good
service, hard working & reasonable price .

we get a big market is Europe and North American. We thank you for
your attention and wish having a long time business.relation with all
buyers from all over the world.
Welcome to our website to obtain more information!Thank you!
website: www.nike3a.com
MSN:nike3aa@hotmail.com
E-mail:nike3a@yahoo.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.nike3a.com)Nike dunk low,Cheap Bape Shoes,cheap jordan,Nike Air
Force 1s
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b75490ee819a794?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:14 pm
From: newshoesweb

We (www.nike3a.com ) wholesale ed hardy tshirt wholesale nike dunk
sneakers wholesale bape sneakers wholesale nike dunk sneakers air
jordan sneakers wholesale gucci LV sneakers

wholesale discount gucci sneakers wholesale ed hardy bape tshirt nike
dunks Nike Shox,r4,nz,james,nike air max,nike air jordan,nike AF1,
Nike Dunk, nike rift ,Tmiberland, Adidas, Ice
Cream,puma,prada,gucci,lacoste,christian audigier,bape,d&g,dsquared
sneakers
website: www.nike3a.com
MSN:nike3aa@hotmail.com
E-mail:nike3a@yahoo.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.nike3a.com)HOTSELL Nikes, Cheap Nike Shoes, Cheap New Jordans,
Cheap Nike Dunks, Cheap Nike Air Max
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/46ad88c652f846ad?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:17 pm
From: newshoesweb

As we (www.nike3a.com)supply great A quality shoes only .all the shoes
from us are authentic quality & original box.

With good service, hard working & reasonable price .we get a big
market is Europe and North

American.
go for the trendy and latest models and the ones that you think suits
your style and personality the

most. In a retail sneaker store, you got to compare a variety of top
shoe brands - such as Adidas,

Bally, Clarks, Puma, Reebok, Ed Hardy, Fila, Levis, Havana Joe,
Lacoste, Ice Cream, Hush Puppies, Nike,

Vans etc - of different designs (and price tags as well) before
zeroing in on one or two footwear that

captured your mind at www.nike3a.com

WEBSITE:http://www.nike3a.com

E-mail : nike3a@yahoo.cn
MSN: nike3aa@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (nike3a.com) Wholesale Air Jordans, Adidas Shoes, Nike Wholesalers, Air
Force 1, Nike Dunks For Cheap
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c6f6691abd118adc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:19 pm
From: newshoesweb

Our products(www.nike3a.com) are AAA quality with original box, tetro
card, label. If you like them, welcome to our

website: http://www.nike3a.com If you want to buy them, pls tell me
the shoes code, and I will

check the shoes and quote you the competitive price,We will ship the
shoes by tnt, ems, dhl, ups or

aoe to you in two days after payment. If you need my help. Pls don't
hesitate to contact with me by

email. Hope we can do long-term business in near future.Please conect
us,and browse our website

www.nike3a.com. We are waiting for you.
MSN:nike3aa@hotmail.com
E-mail:nike3a@yahoo.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Honest! Best Quality!(www.nike3a.com)nike jordan,max,shox,dunk,gucci,
prada,lv,chanel shoes. HOT HOT!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/775b1eff96209ac7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:22 pm
From: newshoesweb

we (www.nike3a.com)selling nike shoes,jordan shoes,replica chanel
shoes,gucci shoes for women, chanel sandals,nike air

jordan xxiii,air jordan 23 sneakers,Cheap Wholesale Jordan
Shoes,jordan23 shoes,Cheap retro

jordans,Cheap Jordan Basketball Shoes,cheap nike dunks,cheap nike
dunks sb,polo hoodies,new air

jordan XXIII, nike air jordan23jordan23jordan,nike air force
one,Authentic Nike Dunk,timberland,nike

dunk low,Cheap Bape Shoes,cheap jordan,Nike Air Force 1s,nike
dunk,jordan 23,cheap ed hardy,nike

air max ltd,Cheap Prada Shoes,new jordan xxiii,Cheap Nike Air Force
Ones,new jordan 23 shoes

2007,cheap jordans for sale sneakers,jordan shoes for cheap,air
jordans xxiii,cheap basketball

sneakers,cheap air force ones,jordan 11,mens nike shox,women air
jordans,cheap sneakers for

sale,new nike jordan basketball shoes,Cheap Evisu Jeans,Cheap Jordan
Kicks,discount coogi,gino green

global hoodies
website: www.nike3a.com
E-mail : nike3a@yahoo.cn
MSN: nike3aa@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.nike3a.com)supply authentic nike air jordans,jordan shoes,jordans,
clear jordans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b3faa1492e3cdf12?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:24 pm
From: newshoesweb

We (www.nike3a.com)sell all branded shoes, clothing, bags,sunglass,
purse & belts caps&hats and watches with all top

brands, like Nike,Adidas, Puma, Lacoste, prada, Gucci, LV, Chanel,
Boss, Christian Dior Rolex,Armani,

Paris, Burberry, POLO, Red monkey, Bape Star, Von dutch, North face,
New era and Ferrari etc. All

the prices are very very competitive.
wholesale nike dunk sb shoes,jordans,nike shox,nike air max 90,
authentic nike,nike women air max 90,air max 90,authentic nike air
jordans,
new 2007 nike dunks,Shox NZ ，Shox R4 ，Shox TL3 ,nike dunks,nike
dunk,Air Max TN ,nike

foamposite, james shoes, adidas shoes,nike sb dunk mid,adidas 35
shoes,air force 1 years shoes,nike

dunk sb tiffany,Air Max 87 ，Air Max 90 ,
nike sb,nike tns,nike air max 360,Air Max 2003 ，Air Max 360 ,nike
rare,nike air max90,nike air max 90

360, Air Max TN3 ，Air Max TN6 ，Air Max LTD
Air Force 1 low ，Air Force 1 mid，Air Force 1 high ，Air Force 1 25
Welcome everyone to be on our website to have a look for them and also
wish to have any chance

to cooperate with you!
website: www.nike3a.com
E-mail : nike3a@yahoo.cn
MSN: nike3aa@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to get your money back on any product that fails
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cf36a607cf5a61cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:24 pm
From: "dark.angel"

In article <gfseci$4ld$1@news.motzarella.org>, john zeiss
<bluestar@mail.invalid> wrote:

> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:6nbqsgFkjvojU1@mid.individual.net...
> > Seerialmom <seerialmom@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Oct 28, 11:34 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I in fact got the use of a very decent Logitech keyboard and mouse
> >>> for 5 years for the cost of that money for that time just by choosing
> >>> a mouse that they didnt continue to produce, claiming under warranty
> >>> just before the warranty expired and since they couldnt replace the
> >>> mouse with another with the same button collection etc, they had to
> >>> give me a full refund of the original purchase price instead.
> >>>
> >>> misterf...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>> How to get your money back on most any product that fails just after
> >>>> its flimsy, short-term, worthless warranty expires:
> >>>
> >>>> Good examples of junk products that fail in less than 180 days:
> >>>
> >>>> Belkin (cigarette lighter plug-in) cell phone chargers
> >>>
> >>>> SONY microcassette tape-recorders
> >>>
> >>>> any compact flourescent light bulb
> >>>
> >>>> digital cameras, electronics equipment, etc
>
> a couple of years ago a well placed japanese engineer in japan, told me that
> manufacturers in japan were studying how to get products to fail early,
> especially after the guarantee expires.

That's called "Engineered Obsolescence" and it's not a new thing. It's
just damned hard to gauge.

We experienced that phenomenon a while back when XBox stopped making
new games for the original platform - so off we went to go buy the
newer model! Otherwise, no new games!
>
>

--
dark.angel

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Air Jordan 23 Fusion shoes discount, cheap nike dunk sb shoes from www.
nike3a.com or china
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b925f27ed787430d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:26 pm
From: newshoesweb

wholesale (www.nike3a.com)Michael jordans fusion force sneakers,jordan
air force ones dunks, sandals, glasses, puma,air

max 87 89 90 95 180 360 2003 2005 2007 ltd, timberland jeans ugg boots
lacoste sandals,hoodies,t-

shirts, mauri sneakers,
Gucci shoes /Gucci low /Gucci high /
LV shoes /Kappa shoes /
Converse shoes/ Dsquared shoes/
D&G shoes /Lacoste shoes /
Umbro shoes /Versace shoes /
website: www.nike3a.com
E-mail : nike3a@yahoo.cn
MSN: nike3aa@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.nike3a.com sell cheap Puma Shoes, New Balance Shoes, Prada Shoes,
nike football,
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9c507b54bf869c30?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:29 pm
From: newshoesweb

our(www.nike3a.com) company wholesale and droppshipping nike shoes,
air jordan 1 to jordan 23 , air force one, AF1,
shox,nz,r3,r4,tl,bmw,oz, max, air max 87, 90, ,95,97,2003,2006, max
tn, dunk, james, puma,prada,gucci,timberland,ugg,gns,shoes
dior,chanel, lv lady slippers
top quality products, best honest service.
looking forward to cooperating with any customers worldwide.
Msn:nike3aa@hotmail.com
E-mail:nike3a@yahoo.cn

nike sneakers, Jordan Sneaker, Air Force 1s ,Nike Shox, Nike Dunks Sb,
Nike wholesale - nike shoes wholesale. We wholesale nike shoes, Nike
dunks, Nike air force 1s, We wholesale nike shoes types: Nike trainers
and sneakers, Nike running shoes, Nike Men's women's shoes, Nike
cheap discount shoes nike shops and stores. Nike shoes wholesale
include: Nike dunks low mid high, Nike Air force 1s low mid high, nike
shocks, Nike air rift, Our china Nike factory sale and wholesale nike
shoes to your nike shop & nike store and Nike Factory.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: www.nike3a.com cheap sell jordan,air force one,nike air max,nike dunk,
jordan,clothes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d94986c2b11c6ad0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:37 pm
From: newshoesweb

We(www.nike3a.com) are specialized in producing various world brand
shoes, which ranges from Adidas, Nike , Jordan, Air Max, Nike Shox ,
Air Force 1, Rift, Timberland, Nike And One, Reebok, etc. Our products
are mainly exported to America, Europe, UK, Japan and so on. We can
supply many shoes with a huge variety of styles and full-ranged sizes
at favorable price .We can give you the best service. we hope to set
up a long term business relationship with you !If you are interested
in our products ,please contact with us!All these shoes are packed
with original boxes . If you want to get satisfactory shoes, we are
your best choice. All our products are in AAA+ qualities and with
lowest price. Moreover, our service is indubitable. Welcome to visit
our website
http://www.nike3a.com
email:nike3a@yahoo.cn
MAN:nike3aa@hotmail.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supply Nike shoes,(www.nike3a.com)adidas shoes,puma shoes,ATO shoes,
Nike Air Force Ones cheap!HOT!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/77ee4aaaca5cf30a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:39 pm
From: newshoesweb

(www.nike3a.com)We can mainly supply quality branded, nike jordans,
af1, air max, air shox, adidas,timberland,prada,puma, and clothes like
bape, evisu, bbc. We can also supply handbags, sunglasses, hats. We
accept the small order even one pair.We can delivery goods to your
door within 5 -7workin days. Any interest in our products, pls feel
free to ask. Our website: http://www.nike3a.com My msn/email:
nike3a@yahoo.cn and nike3aa@hotmail.com We await your good news

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale air force 1s cheap, nike dunks, dunk sb high(www.nike3a.com )
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f147ca9790aea5be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:43 pm
From: newshoesweb

we(www.nike3a.com) are a professional wholesaler of brand shoes
wholesale, Nike Air Jordan 1~23 shoes , Air force one, AF1 25
Anniversary, Nike Dunk, Nike Air Max, Nike Shox, Nike Air Rift,
adidas,timberland,prada,puma, and clothes like bape, evisu, coogi ,g-
star ,AF ,bbc. We can also supply handbags, sunglasses, new ed
hats ,Lv hats ,gucci hats, have a lot of color and all size In the
stock, all AAA Quality, Original box, Hang tags, Bar code. Welcome
order our products! We accept the small order even one pair.We can
delivery goods to your door within 5 workin days. Any interest in our
products, pls feel free to ask.
Our website: http://www.nike3a.com
My msn/email: nike3a@yahoo.cn and nike3aa@hotmail.com
We await your good news

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sell cheap jordan nike air force one shoes(www.nike3a.com )hot!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/fcd0a96e265c95c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 7:47 pm
From: newshoesweb

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama gets it! Oil is FINITE, regardless of current price.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5b131e99a30a9010?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 8:08 pm
From: hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com

On Nov 19, 2:03 pm, Michael Coburn <mik...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 03:42:13 -0800, hot-ham-and-cheese wrote:
> > You mean when Bush said we were addicted to oil it meant nothing. When
> > O'bama says we are addicted to oil it means something.
>
> I think you have busted the code here....
>
> The proclamation is essentially correct. When someone intelligent tells
> you something it has a much larger influence then when a moron says it.

Both stated the obvious, yet you waited for your media hero to come
along and restate the obvious before you believed it.

That puts you at a gross intellectual disadvantage.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you want your tax money to pay a forklift operator $103,000.00 a
year
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ddfc45ecb2d7616d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 20 2008 8:08 pm
From: "Fred Lorenzen"

<TruthTeller@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:PilVk.1804$4g5.101@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
: In
<72046dc7-e3c0-42f8-9c71-2016d2aa2700@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, on
: 11/20/2008
: at 12:40 PM, Daniel <sabot120mm@hotmail.com> said:
:
:
:
: >On Nov 20, 12:05 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
: >> In
<19d19ad2-38a9-47d7-8e77-b11665ab2...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, on
: >> 11/20/2008
: >> at 08:57 AM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >>
: >> >On Nov 19, 9:34 pm, BE-VA <blackwater-evangal...@testland.net>
wrote: >
: >> >On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:23:55 -0800 (PST), Daniel
: >>
: >> >> <sabot12...@hotmail.com> wrote:
: >> >> >On Nov 18, 5:22 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
: >> >> >> In
<96c903fc-9181-4782-a256-6a80cc40e...@a17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, on
: >> >> >> 11/18/2008
: >> >> >> at 01:32 PM, Daniel <sabot12...@hotmail.com> said:
: >>
: >> >> >> >On Nov 18, 1:29 pm, TruthTel...@nospam.net wrote:
: >> >> >> >> You people need to do some homework. The so-called $73 ph,
is not cash.
: >> >> >> >> it includes benefits and retirement costs.
: >> >> >> >Which is STILL too much money for an unskilled laborer that
does nothing
: >> >> >> >more than hold a tool.
: >>
: >> >> >> Do your homework. Its not unskilled labor anymore.
: >>
: >> >> >Your job consists of holding a tool that does all the work for
you.
: >> >> >That by itself is the definition of unskilled. If you don't
like it,
: >> >> >tough.
: >>
: >> >> While I agree with you with regards to pay for work done I don't
agree
: >> >> with your premise -- by your premise a military pilot flying a
25
: >> >> million dollar aircraft is unskilled labor since all he does is
sit in
: >> >> the cockpit and pull levers and push buttons.
: >> >Except that pilot has a 4 year college education, and at least a
year of
: >> >flight school to learn to fly said aircraft, and does it for far
less
: >> >than the toothess goober that holds the machine to tighten lug
nuts.
: >>
: >> First prove you know what you are talking about; e.g., show us that
the
: >> lug nut guy is getting the $103K!
:
:
: >Maybe you should pay some fucking attention to the thread you're
: >particiapting in.
:
: >http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688631448632421.html
:
:
: You should learn to read goober. There is nothing -- zero -- in that
: story about $103K per year -- unskilled laborer causeing the problem .
: That is what the thread is about goober.

@ TruthTeller@nospam.net,

Before calling Daniel 'goober' did you read the original posters
(hpope@lycos.com) first posting in this thread?

In fact if you take the time and effort to actually read the very first
posting in this thread originally posted by hpope@lycos.com on Saturday,
November 15, 2008 5:51 PM you would in fact read quote - "One
blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000
a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is
drastically reduced" - unquote.

This thread also reveals that the total average hourly compensation for
a General Motors UAW employee is $73.26 an hour which is about $2,900 a
week or close to $150,000 a year.

Fred

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "misc.consumers.frugal-living"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to misc.consumers.frugal-living+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

This summary is not available. Please click here to view the post.

Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Thursday, November 20, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 19 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest