Frugal Living: Feb 23, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Hey, I'm Spending !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/81c3c957ffde3287?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 22 2009 11:23 pm
From: Jeff

John A. Weeks III wrote:
> In article <gnsi95$ddh$2@solani.org>, Joe Negron <jnegron@XsonicX.net>
> wrote:
>
>> All true - but what of grocery prices? I don't know about conventional
>> groceries, but the prices of almost all of the organic groceries we buy
>> have risen in the last six months or so.
>
> Think of it like popcorn. Various kernels pop up and fall down,
> but at no time do any of the kernels escape from the pot. Prices
> are the same way. Some go up, some go down. If a prices goes too
> far one way, forces of supply and demand reign it in. Gas was up
> for a while, now it is back down, food is up, and now that gas is
> back down, food should come back down.

I think there is a bit more to that. I can't help but wonder what
ethanol has done to raising corn demand and prices. In many cases corn
is replacing other crops and driving their prices up also.

It's such a stupid policy. Bio Diesel is a much better target if they
have to make fuel out of food.

A quick Google search yields this on ethanol:

http://www.thecherrycreeknews.com/content/view/1417/2/

I suspect now that we have a president who isn't an idiot, we may
eventually have a more sensible energy policy.

Jeff

Then something else will
> go up. Overall, on the average, prices are about the same.
>
> -john-
>

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TOPIC: CONFIRMED: U.S. employers firing U.S. citizen employees (25% jobless) +
hiring illegal aliens (10% jobless) to replace them
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/26f802ef5256f720?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 1:09 am
From: waldo88

On Feb 22, 9:13 pm, "GeorgeWashingtonAdmi...@adelphia.com"
<guybanniste...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Merchants have no country. The mere
> spot they stand on does not constitute
> so strong an attachment as that from
> which they draw their gains."
>
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> The bottom line of the new report (2/18/09) from The Center For
> Immigration Studies (http://www.cis.org):
>
> In this time of a looming Great Depression II (more economists are
> predicting even worse than that!) many of America's outlaw business
> owners are LAYING-OFF their U.S. citizen employees but KEEPING (if not
> hiring even more) illegal aliens.
>
> How bad is it? Economists say we're not even close to the worst
> that's to come and unemployment among U.S. citizen workers is 25% in
> some areas while among illegal aliens it's "only" 10%
>
> Thus, illegal aliens are keeping their ill-gotten jobs while the
> back-stabbing Obama/Dem/GOP Axis of Evil will be paying their
> mortgages off for them, while -- as more and more financial experts
> are screaming -- the same government is shutting millions of U.S.
> citizens with mortgage problems out of stimulus funds altogether. (See
> the video clip "HERE COMES THE ALT-A CRISIS"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmeBSWI9sF8)
>
> It would be bad enough if a few thousand illegal alien lawbreakers
> who snuck into the country had jobs while native-born Americans were
> out of work, but right now -- at a time of skyrocketing unemployment
> among U.S.citizens (up to 25% in some cases -- read the report!) --
> MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of demanding, foreign-flag-waving illegal
> aliens are "faring better" than many more millions of jobless
> Americans.
>
> Now couple this with the new analyses of Obama's stimulus heist
> which show that it REWARDS and pays themortgages of those who -- like
> millions of illegals -- obtained "liar loan" mortgages they never
> could have afforded while SHUTTING-OUT U.S. citizen home buyers who
> only got into trouble when they got "underwater," meaning their homes'
> values dropped precipitously and they now owed more than their house
> was actually worth due largely to all the non-paying, foreclosing
> illegal aliens! (Do the research yourself!)
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unemployment for Immigrants and the US-Born
>
> By Steven A. Camarota February 18, 2009
>
> http://cis.org/December2008Unemployment
>
> Please download the announcement as a .pdf file and share it with
> other Americans:
>
> http://www.cis.org/articles/2009/labor_report_08.pdf
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> What Would America's Founders Do?
>
> Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
> Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
> -- Benjamin Franklin
>
> "It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate,
> tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the
> minds of men."
> --Samuel Adams
>
> No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
> keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
> against tyranny in government.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and
> silent we may be led, like sheep, to the slaughter.
> -- George Washington
>
> If the representatives of the people betray their constituents,
> there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that
> original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive
> forms of government ... The citizens must rush tumultuously to
> arms, without concert, without system, without resource;
> except in their courage and despair ...
> The natural strength of the people in a large community, in
> proportion to the artificial strength of the government, is greater
> than in a small ... the people, without exaggeration, may be said
> to be entirely the masters of their own fate.
> -- Alexander Hamilton
>
> We in America do not have government by the majority.
> We have government by the majority who participate.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good
> conscience to remain silent.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of
> the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe
> depositories.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> As our enemies have found we can reason like men, so now
> let us show them we can fight like men also.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Do you want to know who you are? Don't ask. Act! Action will
> delineate and define you.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on
> does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which
> they draw their gains.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied
> corporations which dare already to challenge our government to
> a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our
> liberties than standing armies.
> -- Thomas Jefferson
>
> Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government
> those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations,
> perverted it into tyranny.
> -- Thomas Jefferson

Get used to it. Old Uncle Sam is now Uncle Suckemoff. If you are a
responsible
tax paying citizen you are screwed.

mitch

http://www.numbersusa.com/ Numbers USA

http://www.vdare.com/ V-Dare

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TOPIC: Mixing CFLs
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3585b15c24a653c0?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 1:25 am
From: "JR Weiss"

"Don Klipstein" <don@manx.misty.com> wrote...
>
> For floodlights, mixing them may cause uneven lighting. For example,
> reflectors of size good for incandescent filaments do not control/direct
> as well light from the larger-size CFL bulb/tube. CFL floodlights tend
> to
> make wider and/or and/or more-poorly defined beams and/or ones with
> smaller percentage of light within the beam. Often that is not so bad in
> a room whose ceiling is full of recessed lights having downlights. But
> mixing them can cause hotspots, maybe with dimness elsewhere.

I don't find this a problem in my kitchen, once the CFLs are warmed up.

I put the halogen light in each bank (one of 4 lights, one of 2) in the
position where I work most often, so the "hottest" light is there. Indeed,
the CFLs are relatively more spread out, but they are not that noticeably
dimmer once I'm moving around and cooking. However, the CFLs are "120W
equivalent" and the halogens are 75W. Still, at 23W consumption, the CFLs
represent a significant savings...

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TOPIC: America is doomed without industrial restoration
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ac833194943bee0?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 2:59 am
From: Mark-T

On Feb 21, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
> >> and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
> >> powerhouse again
>
> > Indeed, let's return to the standard of living displayed
> > in "Leave it to Beaver"
>
> >> This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
> >> immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants!
>
> > Immigration destroyed this country. History shows that clearly.
>
> Immigration produced the country. History shows that clearly.

I have found that ability to detect sarcasm is a
useful measure of intelligence.

Mark

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 5:24 am
From: bw@barrk.net (B1ackwater)

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 02:59:37 -0800 (PST), Mark-T
<MarkTanner50@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 21, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and allow US workers -
>> >> and only US workers - the ability to make this country into a
>> >> powerhouse again
>>
>> > Indeed, let's return to the standard of living displayed
>> > in "Leave it to Beaver"
>>
>> >> This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
>> >> immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants!
>>
>> > Immigration destroyed this country. =A0History shows that clearly.
>>
>> Immigration produced the country. History shows that clearly.
>
>I have found that ability to detect sarcasm is a
>useful measure of intelligence.

Immigration USED TO build this country.

But does it anymore ???

Used to be an underpopulated bit of real-estate
with zillions of would-be customers around the
globe eager for our products.

Adding more labor to that customer-rich environment
was a big help.

Now, many of those old customers produce their OWN
products ... and expect US to buy.

Adding more labor to a customer-SHORT environment
will NOT be a help.

Ergo, very SELECTIVE immigration policies oughtta be
the rule for now ... just foreign professionals -
engineers, scientists, programmers and such ... people
likely to improve our export figures. Even Arnie S., as
insignificant he was way back when, might not qualify.
Yep, he went ON to make profitible exports ... but we
kinda need surer-things right now.

If we ever regain our customer base, THEN we can
offer more slack again.

But not right now.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 9:38 am
From: "Rod Speed"

B1ackwater wrote
> Mark-T <MarkTanner50@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> The only solution is to withdarw from the WTO and
>>>>> allow US workers - and only US workers - the ability
>>>>> to make this country into a powerhouse again

>>>> Indeed, let's return to the standard of living displayed in "Leave it to Beaver"

>>>>> This morning I was reading Sen. Leathy's comments supporting
>>>>> immigration "reform". The old degenerate wants more immigrants!

>>>> Immigration destroyed this country. History shows that clearly.

>>> Immigration produced the country. History shows that clearly.

>> I have found that ability to detect sarcasm is a useful measure of intelligence.

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

> Immigration USED TO build this country.

> But does it anymore ???

Time will tell. Its never clear when its actually happening.

> Used to be an underpopulated bit of real-estate

Yep.

> with zillions of would-be customers around the globe eager for our products.

Nope.

> Adding more labor to that customer-rich environment was a big help.

Nope.

> Now, many of those old customers produce their OWN products ...

And do that with vastly lower labor costs.

> and expect US to buy.

And anyone with a clue does that when the price is much better than with locally produced stuff.

> Adding more labor to a customer-SHORT environment will NOT be a help.

It hasnt been about labor in the US for a long time now.

> Ergo, very SELECTIVE immigration policies oughtta be the rule for now ...

Yes, the US already has plenty of unemployable scum.

> just foreign professionals - engineers, scientists, programmers and such ...

Makes a lot more sense to employ local professionals instead.

> people likely to improve our export figures.

The US economy has never been about export figures.

> Even Arnie S., as insignificant he was way back when, might not qualify. Yep, he
> went ON to make profitible exports ... but we kinda need surer-things right now.

No such animal.

> If we ever regain our customer base,

Still got plenty of those.

> THEN we can offer more slack again.

> But not right now.

In spades with the engineers, scientists, programmers and such you want to keep importing.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 11:20 am
From: Bama Brian

Rod Speed wrote:
> Bama Brian wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Bama Brian wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>> I know a good EE in Atlanta who has not worked in his trade for eight years.
>
>>>>>>> He should have got a clue and got qualified in different engineering.
>
>>>>>> Like what KIND of engineering?
>
>>>>> Civil would be fine, any modern first world country keeps needing
>>>>> decent infrastructure and a water supply, sewage treatment, roads,
>>>>> bridges etc etc etc.
>
>>>>>> serious question
>
>>>> Apparently, Rod, old hooting baboon, you don't know that in order
>>>> to switch engineering specialties it takes from two to three years
>>>> of full-time school to pick up that new accreditation.
>
>>> Or you are so stupid that you cant manage to grasp
>>> that I was saying that he should have got qualified in
>>> an engineering field with some future in the first place.
>
>> Oh, I got that, Rod, old hooting baboon. But the events of the last twenty years are being viewed by those eyeballs
>> you have implanted in your buttocks, with 20-20 hindsight.
>
> Nope, it was obvious that long ago that Japan had taken over much
> of the manufacturing that had been done in first world countrys and
> that it was quite likely that other countrys would also exploit their
> much lower labor costs to compete on manufacturing too.
>
> They even managed a few innovative products like the walkman too.
>
>> It is extremely arrogant of you to imply that young men should have the ability to foretell the future.
>
> Dont have to foretell the detail pricely, just the obvious basic trends.
>
> It was obvious then that Japan would have to do something different
> to have any hope of becoming a significant presence in the car industry
> for example, so its no surprise that they manage to exploit the real
> weaknesses in the US system to come out ahead. They had to
> because thats all they ever had with few natural resources etc.
>
>> Reality is that you worked for a government. Guess what, Hoot? If we all work for a government, nothing will ever
>> get done.
>
> No one is suggesting everyone should world for a govt. If however you
> are into engineering, it should be obvious to even someone as stupid as
> you that there will always be a decent future for CEs, because everyone
> will always need basic stuff like water, their sewage disposed of, bridges
> and roads etc etc etc built and that its a tad hard to offshore stuff like that.

No matter how many CE's graduate, there will forever be only a limited
need. When that number is reached, only replacement CE's would be
needed to replace retirees.
>
>> Governments don't create anything except government employees.
>
> Wrong, as always.

Name something that any government has created, besides public works
that came from taxes. Then name the government that has voluntarily
down-sized itself.
>
>> And they have to tax wage earners to pay bureaucratic salaries.
>
> The taxes paid for water, sewage disposal, bridges and roads etc etc
> etc are no different to paying a non govt operation for them. In fact many
> modern govts do get private operations to do that stuff and to run them too.

So? It's still taxes which pay for those things.
>
>>>> Married men with families typically don't have the resources to go back to school full-time.
>
>>> Pig ignorant lie, most obviously when the wife is in a well paid job.
>
>> Most men do not have such.
>
> Another bare faced pig ignorant lie.

Utter bullshit from an utter bullshitter.
>
>> Especially older men, whose wives were taught when they were young that being a nurse or schoolteacher was all they
>> could hope for.
>
> We werent talking about older men, I was asked what field
> a 22 year old should consider that has a decent future.

Goal post move noted.

>
>>> And how is whining about no one being prepared to offer you a job any better anyway ?
>
>> Syntax, Rod, syntax.
>
> Bullshit, gutless, bullshit.
>
>>>> Trying to pick up the new specialty at night school while working a full-time job takes about ten years.
>
>>> Thats a lie.
>
>> Oh, no it's not.
>
> Yes it is. That one I mentioned did it that way and it didnt take him that long.

Depends on what you're trying to do. If you're an EE trying to convert
to a CE, you may as well pick another profession that takes less time to
qualify.

>
> I know quite a few others who have done that too.
>
>>>> And the on-line schools are hideously expensive; classes here are primarily financed by employers.
>
>>> All the more reason to choose a specialty with a future properly in the first place.
>
>> Riighhhtt! Could you share the phone number of the fortune teller you used when you planned your career?
>
> Dont need one of those. Its been obvious for decades now that
> the work CEs do is a hell of a lot harder to offshore than what
> many EEs do. Those who work in low end manufacturing in spades.

Obvious to whom, Hoot? The average man, or the self-professed "smarter
than thou" assholes, such as yourself?

>
> It should be obvious to even someone as stupid as you that the military
> doesnt offshore much of their manufacturing for some strange reason.

The military is an arm of the government and creates nothing. The
military in every country is only chartered to break things and kill people.
>
>> Do distribute it to all those young men who are now looking for a career.
>
> Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

For a fellow who is supposed to be smart, you certainly have little or
nothing in the way of comebacks.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 10:46 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Bama Brian wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Bama Brian wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Bama Brian wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> I know a good EE in Atlanta who has not worked in his trade for eight years.

>>>>>>>> He should have got a clue and got qualified in different engineering.

>>>>>>> Like what KIND of engineering?

>>>>>> Civil would be fine, any modern first world country keeps needing
>>>>>> decent infrastructure and a water supply, sewage treatment,
>>>>>> roads, bridges etc etc etc.

>>>>>>> serious question

>>>>> Apparently, Rod, old hooting baboon, you don't know that in order
>>>>> to switch engineering specialties it takes from two to three years
>>>>> of full-time school to pick up that new accreditation.

>>>> Or you are so stupid that you cant manage to grasp
>>>> that I was saying that he should have got qualified in
>>>> an engineering field with some future in the first place.

>>> Oh, I got that, Rod, old hooting baboon. But the events of the
>>> last twenty years are being viewed by those eyeballs you have
>>> implanted in your buttocks, with 20-20 hindsight.

>> Nope, it was obvious that long ago that Japan had taken over much
>> of the manufacturing that had been done in first world countrys and
>> that it was quite likely that other countrys would also exploit their
>> much lower labor costs to compete on manufacturing too.

>> They even managed a few innovative products like the walkman too.

>>> It is extremely arrogant of you to imply that young men should have
>>> the ability to foretell the future.

>> Dont have to foretell the detail pricely, just the obvious basic
>> trends.

>> It was obvious then that Japan would have to do something different
>> to have any hope of becoming a significant presence in the car industry for example, so its no surprise that they
>> manage to exploit the real
>> weaknesses in the US system to come out ahead. They had to
>> because thats all they ever had with few natural resources etc.

>>> Reality is that you worked for a government. Guess what, Hoot? If we all work for a government, nothing will ever
>>> get done.

>> No one is suggesting everyone should world for a govt. If however you
>> are into engineering, it should be obvious to even someone as stupid as you that there will always be a decent future
>> for CEs, because everyone will always need basic stuff like water, their sewage disposed of, bridges and roads etc
>> etc etc built and that its a tad hard to offshore stuff like that.

> No matter how many CE's graduate, there will forever be only a limited need.

True of any field.

> When that number is reached, only replacement CE's would be needed to replace retirees.

And since plenty of them are boomers, that wont be a problem.

>>> Governments don't create anything except government employees.

>> Wrong, as always.

> Name something that any government has created, besides public works

That alone is one obvious example.

> that came from taxes.

Thats the way that what govt does is paid for.

> Then name the government that has voluntarily down-sized itself.

The US did just that after WW2 ended with its military. So
did all the other govts that were militarily involved in WW2 too.

>>> And they have to tax wage earners to pay bureaucratic salaries.

>> The taxes paid for water, sewage disposal, bridges and roads etc etc etc are no different to paying a non govt
>> operation for them. In fact many modern govts do get private operations to do that stuff and to run them too.

> So? It's still taxes which pay for those things.

Thats the way that what govt does is paid for.

>>>>> Married men with families typically don't have the resources to go back to school full-time.

>>>> Pig ignorant lie, most obviously when the wife is in a well paid job.

>>> Most men do not have such.

>> Another bare faced pig ignorant lie.

> Utter bullshit from an utter bullshitter.

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

>>> Especially older men, whose wives were taught when they were young
>>> that being a nurse or schoolteacher was all they could hope for.

>> We werent talking about older men, I was asked what field
>> a 22 year old should consider that has a decent future.

> Goal post move noted.

Everyone can see you are lying, as always. That was the ORIGINAL
question, you silly little pathetic excuse for a lying bullshit artist.

>>>> And how is whining about no one being prepared to offer you a job any better anyway ?

>>> Syntax, Rod, syntax.

>> Bullshit, gutless, bullshit.

>>>>> Trying to pick up the new specialty at night school while working a full-time job takes about ten years.

>>>> Thats a lie.

>>> Oh, no it's not.

>> Yes it is. That one I mentioned did it that way and it didnt take him that long.

> Depends on what you're trying to do.

That one did what we were talking about, got qualified as a CE.

> If you're an EE trying to convert to a CE, you may as well pick another profession that takes less time to qualify.

That one was qualifying as a CE, and wasnt already qualified as an EE, you pathetic excuse for a lying bullshit artist.

AND his wife was being very well paid at the time as well, as a medical professional.

She still is.

>> I know quite a few others who have done that too.

>>>>> And the on-line schools are hideously expensive; classes here are primarily financed by employers.

>>>> All the more reason to choose a specialty with a future properly in the first place.

>>> Riighhhtt! Could you share the phone number of the fortune teller you used when you planned your career?

>> Dont need one of those. Its been obvious for decades now that the work CEs do is a hell of a lot harder to offshore
>> than what many EEs do. Those who work in low end manufacturing in spades.

> Obvious to whom, Hoot?

Obvious to anyone with a clue, cretin.

> The average man,

We werent even talking about those, just an engineer
deciding which engineering field had more future.

> or the self-professed "smarter than thou" assholes, such as yourself?

Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

>> It should be obvious to even someone as stupid as you that the military doesnt offshore much of their manufacturing
>> for some strange reason.

> The military is an arm of the government and creates nothing.

Wrong as always, it creates hordes of military hardware, and exports quite a bit of that too.

> The military in every country is only chartered to break things and kill people.

They do however need to create quite a bit of military
hardware to do that and export quite a bit of that as well.

>>> Do distribute it to all those young men who are now looking for a career.

>> Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

> For a fellow who is supposed to be smart, you certainly have little or nothing in the way of comebacks.

Fools like you dont qualify, gutless.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: trying to make my own Fiddle Faddle/cracker jacks/kettle corn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a0536c398878d6ae?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 4:20 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <gnnc85$dn8$1@news.ett.com.ua>, OhioGuy <none@none.net>
wrote:

> I've been experimenting with different recipes I've found online for
> making some sort of sweet and slightly salty popcorn snack. I've
> experimented with and without nuts, but not had very good success. For
> example, two days ago I finally made something that I considered edible.
>
> Too often, it just seems burnt or not very good tasting. I'm
> wondering what the heck they do differently with the mass produced stuff
> sold at retail?
>
> Have any of you tried doing something like this? Is there some trick
> to making a good batch? Thanks!

Try posting this question on the rec.food.cooking group. I would be
surprised if you didn't get some helpful suggestions there.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Export to Canada Question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/999b67c05ceafd9b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 5:37 am
From: Rick

Hello all...

Is there anyone out there who have some expereince exporting sheep or
llamas to Canada?

Regards,

Rick Boesen
Olivet, MI
www.FiberArtFest.com
www.QuesoCabezaFarm.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy Hershey's Kisses @ $1.88 a bag, get free movie tickets
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/370656ca984f9168?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 5:59 am
From: Kayak44

On Feb 19, 11:08 pm, OhioGuy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I just went in our local Gabriel Brothers store and found a pile of
> something like 200 packages of Hershey's Kisses, 13.2 ounce bags for
> $1.88 each. That isn't a bad deal on its own, but these also happened
> to be "Mega Movie Bonus" 5 point bags. This is the Hollywood Movie
> Money deal where for 15 points, you get a free movie ticket. (limit 4
> certificates per address)
>
> Gabriel Brothers store finder:http://www.gabrielbrothers.com/stores.php
>
> Hershey's Mega Movie Bonus:http://www.hersheys.com/megamovie/
>
> Hollywood Movie Money theater lookup: (promo 32368)http://www.hollywoodmoviemoney.com/theaters?promocode=32368
>
> So for a grand total of $5.64, you get nearly 2.5 pounds of milk
> chocolate, plus a free movie ticket. Quadruple this if you go for all 4
> tickets.
>
> Hurry, though, submissions must be postmarked by March 1. Looks like
> I'm going to have some free tickets to some of the May movies I'm
> looking forward to, but would normally wait to see in the cheapie
> theaters: Wolverine, Star Trek, Terminator, Night at the Museum, or
> maybe even Land of the Lost or Transformers in June.

You also support a company that just closed yet another US plant and
moved production to Mexico, but hey, as long as you get to see a
movie, I guess that's all that matters.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 4:47 pm
From: Marsha

Kayak44 wrote:
> You also support a company that just closed yet another US plant and
> moved production to Mexico, but hey, as long as you get to see a
> movie, I guess that's all that matters.

Is that supposed to be common knowledge? So we're supposed to check
every company before we buy something? Get real.

Marsha

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hot!! Free shipping Wholesale NFL jerseys USD 20.06 ~ 21.95 Piece
Paypal payment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9ecd85fe58dc0282?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 8:29 am
From: guoshitrade@126.com

Minimum order is one,factory price also! Paypal payment free
shipping

We are deal with NFL jerseys / Kids NFL jerseys / NBA jerseys /MLB
jerseys / NHL jerseys

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goods come form our own factory directly

www.guoshijerseys.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hot!! Free shipping Supply NHL jerseys USD 30.06 ~ 31.95 Piece Paypal
payment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b05e9326f156e5c9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 9:09 am
From: guoshitrade100@126.com

Minimum order is one,factory price also! Paypal payment free
shipping

We are deal with NFL jerseys / Kids NFL jerseys / NBA jerseys /MLB
jerseys / NHL jerseys

etc.Brand new, with original tag attached, Authentic quality ,
Wholesale price,Letters and

number are sewn on jerseys body, 100% embroidery. We have lots of
player, size and the

color.More and new jerseys please to chick our in stock list.You can
mix any items from my store

together !!
we will continually supply you the best quality and the most
favorable price, because these

goods come form our own factory directly

www.guoshijerseys.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: food stamps
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f5b43b6057089480?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 10:02 am
From: clams_casino

Just saw a couple whining on CNN that it was hard making it through the
month on just $580/mo of food stamps. Granted, they were a family of
four vs. the two of us, but the children appeared to be early grade
school age, not teenagers. Furthermore, aren't most kids getting free
breakfast and lunch at school these days (especially those in food stamp
families)?

The two of us have averaged less than $400/mo for the past ten (+) years
($365/moin 07 and $398/mo in 08). I'm not sure what food stamps
include, but our $400 / mo includes all paper products, over the counter
drugs (aspirin, vitamin pills, etc), cleaning chemicals, personal
products (toothpaste, soap, razor blades, etc) as well as the cost of
the newspaper (I include its yearly subscription since its cost is
essentially covered by the coupons against groceries). We also tend to
eat primarily fresh foods (rarely frozen or canned), including fresh
seafood at least twice / mo and typically don't freeze much as
leftovers. That also includes our liquor costs, but that is typically
only about 4 bottles of wine / year. We include all items one might
pick up at a grocer, even if bought at fruit stands, Walmart, etc.

Point is, I'm sure we could cut much more, if need be. How could a
young family of four not live relatively well on $580 groceries / mo?

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 10:28 am
From: ediefaber@yahoo.com (elise d faber)

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:02:24 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:

>Just saw a couple whining on CNN that it was hard making it through the
>month on just $580/mo of food stamps. Granted, they were a family of
>four vs. the two of us, but the children appeared to be early grade
>school age, not teenagers. Furthermore, aren't most kids getting free
>breakfast and lunch at school these days (especially those in food stamp
>families)?
>
>The two of us have averaged less than $400/mo for the past ten (+) years
>($365/moin 07 and $398/mo in 08). I'm not sure what food stamps
>include, but our $400 / mo includes all paper products, over the counter
>drugs (aspirin, vitamin pills, etc), cleaning chemicals, personal
>products (toothpaste, soap, razor blades, etc) as well as the cost of
>the newspaper (I include its yearly subscription since its cost is
>essentially covered by the coupons against groceries). We also tend to
>eat primarily fresh foods (rarely frozen or canned), including fresh
>seafood at least twice / mo and typically don't freeze much as
>leftovers. That also includes our liquor costs, but that is typically
>only about 4 bottles of wine / year. We include all items one might
>pick up at a grocer, even if bought at fruit stands, Walmart, etc.
>
> Point is, I'm sure we could cut much more, if need be. How could a
>young family of four not live relatively well on $580 groceries / mo?
>

they don't know how to cook. buying ingredients to cook from scratch
is not that expensive even if you go organic. i am also on food stamps
and get $100/mo for myself only. this is always enough even though i
shop at whole foods and trader joes. but i don't eat much meat. i buy
it on sale and then freeze it. i also cook soups and stews etc and
freeze them.

the expensive grocery items are the cereal [even plain store brand
stuff costs a lot], juice box type drinks [if you drink this stuff, go
for koolaid. it's cheaper], frozen dinner type stuff [pizzas and so
forth] and candy/cookietype things. most of these can be made from
scratch for a lot less.

elise

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 11:39 am
From: Dave Garland

clams_casino wrote:
> How could a
> young family of four not live relatively well on $580 groceries / mo?
>

Seems like a lot to me, but I didn't see the show.

A few possibilities are, poor choices, special needs (allergies etc.)
living in a rural area (everything costs more and there isn't much
competition), living somewhere like Alaska or Hawaii, living in an
inner city without a car (corner stores are very expensive).

Dave

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 12:31 pm
From: Evelyn Leeper

Dave Garland wrote:
> clams_casino wrote:
>> How could a
>> young family of four not live relatively well on $580 groceries / mo?
>>
>
> Seems like a lot to me, but I didn't see the show.
>
> A few possibilities are, poor choices, special needs (allergies etc.)
> living in a rural area (everything costs more and there isn't much
> competition), living somewhere like Alaska or Hawaii, living in an
> inner city without a car (corner stores are very expensive).

Add not having a big refrigerator/freezer.

(If both parents are working, then food prep time may be an issue,
leading to more convenience stuff, but then they would have more than
just the food stamps for food, right?)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Nobody believes the official spokesman ... but everybody
trusts an unidentified source. -Ron Nesen, 1977

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 4:41 pm
From: Marsha

Evelyn Leeper wrote:
> Dave Garland wrote:
>> clams_casino wrote:
>>> How could a
>>> young family of four not live relatively well on $580 groceries / mo?
>>>
>>
>> Seems like a lot to me, but I didn't see the show.
>>
>> A few possibilities are, poor choices, special needs (allergies etc.)
>> living in a rural area (everything costs more and there isn't much
>> competition), living somewhere like Alaska or Hawaii, living in an
>> inner city without a car (corner stores are very expensive).
>
> Add not having a big refrigerator/freezer.
>
> (If both parents are working, then food prep time may be an issue,
> leading to more convenience stuff, but then they would have more than
> just the food stamps for food, right?)
>

Even if both parents are working, it shouldn't be a problem. Crockpots
are great for those who are time challenged. Weekends can be put to use
by making a whole week's worth of meals. Most of the people I see using
food stamps have a whole bunch of expensive, unhealthy convenience foods
in their cart. $580/month is a lot for just groceries. If they're
complaining, it's because they ignorant or lazy, IMO.

Marsha

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 7:22 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:39:51 -0600, Dave Garland
<dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:

>clams_casino wrote:
>> How could a
>> young family of four not live relatively well on $580 groceries / mo?
>>
>
>Seems like a lot to me, but I didn't see the show.
>
>A few possibilities are, poor choices, special needs (allergies etc.)
>living in a rural area (everything costs more and there isn't much
>competition), living somewhere like Alaska or Hawaii, living in an
>inner city without a car (corner stores are very expensive).
>
>Dave

In emailed conversation with the fellow who had the shopping
comparison website, he stated that the cost of food in Hawaii is
roughly 3 times that of stateside.

Food is an area where you often pay now or pay later. A store
recently had bologna on sale for $1 a package. I tried it with
mustard, I tried it fried, I tried it smothered, and I still ended up
throwing it out. I hate to think of the processed chicken joints that
I was eating.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: economic cycles
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/bf4fa26154c7bfd4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 10:19 am
From: phil scott

On Feb 22, 8:24 am, Devo <georgewks...@humboldt1.com> wrote:
> The economy, as any other phenomenon social (or natural) moves by
> cycles. The economists have detected three great cycles of the
> economy: based on the business (commercial crises), based on the
> technological innovation (technological crises) and based on the
> credit (monetary crises).
>
> The commercial crisis are most current, we lived them every day, the
> products raise and lower, increase the interest or diminish,
> businesses are opened or closed. The technological crises are more
> complicated, a technological innovation generates an increase of the
> investment, an increase of the demand and, in general, whom all the
> market is mobilized before the new product. The credit crises affect
> periodically to the markets and of the those pending crises they are
> the stock-exchange agents, the governments, the bank and the
> industralists.
>
> Each one of the crisis that we have mentioned is independent within
> the general concert of the economy. Of way that when one takes place,
> we can be sure that it is not going to agree with the others, so we
> can hope that if the businesses, the technological innovation or the
> financing fails, the other two sectors throw of the economy and remove
> to the sector that has failed of the crisis.
>
> But when one of those sectors fails and begins to cause that the other
> sectors fail, we are not before a conjunctural crisis but before a
> structural crisis that aims towards a generalized failure of the
> economy and to that there is necessity of a deep reconstruction of all
> the economy so that all the machinery begins to work and the
> resuscitation of all the sectors (commercial, technological and
> financial) obtains that auto-correction the set.
>
> Cases of a conjunctural crisis of the finances were ³black Monday² of
> 1987 or crash of the stock-exchange bubble of the companies. Com in
> 2000, although supposed many personal dramas, dismissals and changes
> in the world of the companies, did not suppose that the economy as a
> whole was stopped.
>
> Cases of conjunctural crisis of the technologies were the
> automatization of the production at the beginning of the decade of
> 1950 and the appearance of the information highways in the decade of
> 1990.
>
> Cases of conjunctural crisis of the commerce were the passage of the
> typewriter to the PC in the the 90 decade of or the boom of the
> movable telephony in the following decade.
>
> But when a structural crisis arrives from the economy, and they arrive
> very from time to time (1929, 1979, 2009), watching in that lax of
> time, agree outer causes to on-speed operation of the economy that
> cause that this one has an exceptional and anodyne operation: a
> warlike crisis or a war that have caused a fast cost of resources and
> have affected radically to the normal distribution of productive
> resources in an economy (national or international) and a rise of the
> power values that have redistributed the power resources of an economy
> and unemployed - or frightened their production.
>
> These are the factors that have caused the deep crisis of the
> international economy in the last 90 or 100 years, approximately.
>
> 1929: exit of the I World war and triumph of the motor of internal
> combustion in the industry and means of transport (oligopoly of the
> industry of petroleum)
>
> 1979: exit of the War of Vietnam and II crisis of petroleum (cartel of
> the producing countries)
>
> 2009: exit of the War of Iraq and III crisis of petroleum (cartel of
> the producing countries)
>
> * The I crisis of petroleum was in 1973. In 2008, petroleum upper
> reached its price in all its history, pushed so much by the
> speculative movement of the markets as by the increase in the demand
> of countries in process of industrialization like India or China.
> --
> It's amazing what you can do. If...
> you put your mind to it.

you left out the well known national collapse cycle, Kondraiv's
winterr cycle... very 250 years or so... not a mere depression but
loss of empire or worse
............ reboot takes two generations or so.

Phil scott

==============================================================================
TOPIC: whole house vacuum?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f224b0ddf47ed4ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 11:22 am
From: Devo

We just took an old shop vac and a long hose .
It's great! and instead of micro-filtering ,very expensive, we just dump
the "finer" dust outside. and it's quieter.
--
It's amazing what you can do. If...
you put your mind to it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's all falling apart, isn't it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aaee75672b67549f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 2:12 pm
From: Harold Burton

In article
<3ecaa9f3-4279-4bc0-b5d5-3e58fc8e295f@h16g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
phil scott <phil@philscott.net> wrote:

> On Feb 20, 5:52 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <eacd8d83-56df-4b7f-8811-8aad4321f...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> > Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 18, 8:50 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <8822ef0e-ed15-44b2-bffc-2198990c2...@m2g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > On Feb 17, 9:46 pm, Harold Burton <hal.i.bur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > Right, before DemocRAT Johnson changed the rules. Bet the
> > > > > > Obama-lama-ding-dong appreciates that.
> >
> > > > > You undermine the validity of your position by resorting to junior-
> > > > > high insults.
> >
> > > > Which makes me different for all the lefturds posting, how?
> >
> > > Does this rhetorical question mean that you don't care about
> > > being different from the "lefturds"?
> >
> > I just enjoy rubbing their noses in their hypocrisy. Using "junior-high
> > insults" is a way of baiting them, and they are stupid enough to bite.
> >
> > > I should imagine that you would want to distinguish yourself from
> > > them as much as possible.
> >
> > Doesn't bother me.
> >
> > > > I notice you chose to dodge the question. Good idea.
> >
> > > I saw no question in your post, only assertions. I am
> > > relatively indifferent to the political machinations that
> > > result in underestimation of unemployment figures.
> >
> > > Politicians lie, regardless of which way they lean. It
> > > is fruitless to point fingers in one direction when lies
> > > emanation from all quarters.
> >
> > I know that both sides lie and I enjoy baiting the idiots on the left
> > that labor under the delusion that their side is any better than the
> > other

> grow uo (sic) Harrold (sic), you will no longer enjoy behaving like a
> high school kiddie regardless your ratiionalizations,,, regardless (sic)
> the error of others, or your own error,, unless you are positing your
> own infalability, then defending it in high school kiddie fashion...
> such behavior is a waste of time Harrold (sic).

Must be why you keep reading, and responding to, it.

> there are more intelligent approaches ... some folks choose to apply
> themselves to those ends.

Not that many in these newsgroups.

BTW have you made similar complaints to those on the left when they use
"junior-high insults" ore are you the typical lefturd hypocrite?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV converters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e46bdc878c0fe848?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 3:45 pm
From: Gordon

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in news:%IYnl.11502
$_U5.1370@newsfe20.iad:

> RTN has several shows I'd like to watch, but I don't want to be up at 4
> am to watch TV. Any suggestion as to whether the over-the-air digital
> shows can be recorded, short of buying an expensive DVD recorder? Are
> newer VCRs capable of recording digital shows over the air?

Well, if your DTV converter has Composite outputs, and your VCR has
composite inputs. It is a pretty easy connection. Just Make sure
that you DTV converter is on and tuned to RTN.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reuse of old computers with Linux
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ee60f81025a0e492?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 23 2009 5:13 pm
From: meow2222@care2.com

matthewb wrote:
> On Feb 22, 10:16 am, albun...@mailinator.com wrote:
> > On Feb 21, 2:52 pm, matthewb <matthew.bu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The goal of the document was to try Linux on a older computer to see
> if can have a second life.
> I assume most old computers are operational but not quick enough to
> run Windows any more.

I've heard that many times, but it makes no sense to me at all. All
computers are exactly as fast as they were on day 1, unless they've
been upgraded or clocked. And win95, 98 etc havent changed any
either... so its inevitable that a fresh reinstall will run the same
speed it did originally.

As for security patches, you wouldnt use an old machine for sensitive
apps, so patching is optional. If you pick app software with care you
can get a system running far faster than it ever used to.

> The process shows a non destructive way to try Linux on systems with
> low hardware specifications.
> If you are happy with Linux then keep running it off the Live CD or
> Boot USB or install in on your hard drive.
> The alternative is change an old computer to work with Windows + Anti
> Virus suite + 100s of Windows security updates often means new
> motherboard, processor, RAM & perhaps hard drive, power supply and
> graphics card.

nonsense. Even my 486 still runs all that passably. Its just a matter
of setting up the software well
- AV on old machines, set real time scanning OFF, just rely on the
night time scan.
- pick apps with care, avoiding any bloat
- make sure no app starts at boot time unless it genuinely needs to.

Do that and you can get almost anything online, and at usable speed
too. Even a 486. Not that anyone would want to these days.

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Monday, February 23, 2009

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest