http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
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Today's topics:
* gas should be 95c a gallon right now - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/84861feee5dbe69b?hl=en
* It's all falling apart, isn't it? - 8 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aaee75672b67549f?hl=en
* America is doomed without industrial restoration - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ac833194943bee0?hl=en
* Hard boiled eggs. - 7 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/032a3102de8f165d?hl=en
* need a small, inexpensive urban TV antenna - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22d545ae9e8cb014?hl=en
* DTV converters - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e46bdc878c0fe848?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: gas should be 95c a gallon right now
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/84861feee5dbe69b?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:26 pm
From: "SJF"
"SJF" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Ttoll.244956$jv1.25020@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> <josejarvie@ssnet.net> wrote in message
> news:jtj1p4t50bhkh2mc2v17dald1ms9hu44qh@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:16:26 -0500, in misc.consumers.frugal-living
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>OhioGuy wrote:
>>>> I was looking at the price of crude oil recently, and did some quick
>>>> calculations. Based on the current prices refiners are paying, and
>>>> comparing it to what we were paying for gasoline a couple of months
>>>> back
>>>> ($1.39 around here), we should now be paying about 95 cents a gallon
>>>> for
>>>> gas.
>>>>
>>>> Instead, as the price for crude oil has fallen, and as a surplus of
>>>> crude oil builds, the price has actually GONE UP by about 50 cents.
>>>>
>>>> Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought that as the supply
>>>> increased, and the demand decreased, that the price also decreased.
>>>> That
>>>> was what they taught us in macro and micro economics, anyway.
>>>
>>>Economic rules only apply if there is an honest market that isn't
>>>influenced by speculators and others who have rigged the game for their
>>>own gain.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So why is the price slowly going up right now?
>>
>> How long does it take for a barrel of oil to be converted to gas then
>> then distrubuted to a gas station half a
>> world away from where the oil came from? Regardless of where it is
>> refined.
>
> Good point!
>
> Refineries are set up to produce several products from the crude --
> gasoline, diesel, lubricants, asphalt, etc. The ratios of each can be
> somewhat varied within a limited range The refined products go into
> storage. Supply and demand for each of the refined products in storage,
> rather than the supply and demand for crude, then dictates the price of
> the product. There is a time lag in this process. Common case -- When
> the demand for heating oil increases, more crude is refined resulting in
> excess production of gasoline putting a downward pressure on its price.
> The reverse situation, high relative demand for gasoline can similarly
> depress the price of gasoline. These and other effects all have time
> lags.
>
> SJF
Correction -- ..high relative demand for gasoline can similarly depress the
price of *heating oil.*
==============================================================================
TOPIC: It's all falling apart, isn't it?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/aaee75672b67549f?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:40 pm
From: phil scott
On Feb 13, 2:14 am, Igor The Terrible
<igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> > wrote:
>
> > >It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> > >I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> > >if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> > >falling apart.
>
> > >We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> > >proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> > >and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> > >running themselves into bankruptcy!
>
> > >Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> > >turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> > >anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> > >he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> > >to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> > >Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>
> > >These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> > >themselves.
>
> > >American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> > >colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> > >an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> > >ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>
> > >We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> > >on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> > >just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>
> > >We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> > >who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> > >pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> > >long cured from this land!
>
> > >We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> > >and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> > >sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> > >"alternative lifestyle."
>
> > >If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> > >racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>
> > >Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> > >country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>
> > When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> > attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> > population. (yes, means White!)
>
> > ted
>
> > sites to visit:
>
> >http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> >http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
> is still thriving.-
not actually thriving if you take a closer look.
Im an old time contractor type, industrial systems and controls, semi
retired now.. I spend a lot of time in starbucks when im on a
project... a good drill is to notice whom there you think you could
hire to do what you need done..... any high end skill or even mid
range trade, you dont see many options running around lattely
ask any employer.... in the EU also, over run these days my people
from the middle east out breeding the natives eight to one; and not
adapting to the culture, instead rioting
Phil scott
Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:45 pm
From: phil scott
On Feb 13, 4:42 am, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> on 2/13/09 4:01 AM wis...@yahoo.com said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> > wrote:
>
> >> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> >> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> >> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> >> falling apart.
>
> >> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> >> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> >> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> >> running themselves into bankruptcy!
>
> >> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> >> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> >> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> >> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> >> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> >> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>
> >> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> >> themselves.
>
> >> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> >> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> >> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> >> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>
> >> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> >> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> >> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>
> >> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> >> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> >> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> >> long cured from this land!
>
> >> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> >> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> >> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> >> "alternative lifestyle."
>
> >> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> >> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>
> >> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> >> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>
> > When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> > attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> > population. (yes, means White!)
>
> > ted
>
> > sites to visit:
>
> >http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> >http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News
>
> The "top->down flat-landers" don't understand that economic activity is
> a non-linear system. Therefore, top->down policies can have devastating
> effects. In a nut shell, cronyism fascists are pushing their reckless
> behavior losses onto the naive taxpayer. As this continues to happen,
> the private market will be starved of needed capital and the economy
> will contract.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
very interesting... could you flesh that out a bit? One thing for
sure, the US is now 38th in the world in high school test scores,
we have the most in prison, and govt bloat beyond belief, and an
unpayable national debt,,, as our birth rate shrinks due to both
parents
having to work sometimes two jobs to make ends meet,... this mess did
not originate entirely at the very top, but down into mid range govt
also as the police
unions for example now have retirement packages that end up after
finagling in the 150k range per year,,, for beat cops,
no way in hell the working class can support such a rip off
Phil scott
== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:54 pm
From: phil scott
On Feb 13, 4:48 am, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> on 2/13/09 5:11 AM GLOBALIST said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 4:14 am, Igor The Terrible
> > <igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> >>>> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> >>>> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> >>>> falling apart.
> >>>> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> >>>> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> >>>> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> >>>> running themselves into bankruptcy!
> >>>> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> >>>> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> >>>> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> >>>> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> >>>> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> >>>> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> >>>> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> >>>> themselves.
> >>>> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> >>>> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> >>>> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> >>>> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
> >>>> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> >>>> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> >>>> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
> >>>> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> >>>> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> >>>> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> >>>> long cured from this land!
> >>>> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> >>>> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> >>>> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> >>>> "alternative lifestyle."
> >>>> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> >>>> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
> >>>> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> >>>> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
> >>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> >>> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> >>> population. (yes, means White!)
> >>> ted
> >>> sites to visit:
> >>>http://www.wvw.net/Western Voices World News
> >>>http://www.newnation.org/New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
> >> is still thriving.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I agree.....this US supremacy bullshit was getting real old. I hope
> > to hell we will not be a super power anymore, since all it meant was
> > we can kill whoever we want for our greed.
>
> If the USA loses reserve currency status, you will see real financial
> problems as America will not be able to continue as debtor nation buying
> imports and the exporting nations buying US Treasuries to fund deficit
> spending year after year. It is not sustainable in the long run, but
> politicos are too stupid to realize that. So expect things to get real
> ugly...like rioting in the streets and young against old.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Im in calif, one of our towns, stockton is laying off cops,,, compton
calf years ago laid off all of its police, the county sherrif handles
that now,, the state cant print money, its credit rating wont allow
it to sell bonds anymore recent fed bail out will last em a year at
best) the sales and ppty tax income is accelerating its decline,,,
no way to pay the police,,, or their 5 to ten times bigger retirement
packages than the average
tax payer,
there are solutions:
cut govt 70 percent, let retired people man cop cars for traffic
enforcement, combine fire and police duty so the firemen have work do
to between the occasional fires... fire 90 pct of the city and state
pork barrel appointment jobs, cut taxes by fifty percent as a
result
that would help
Phil scott
== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:01 pm
From: phil scott
On Feb 13, 5:05 am, William Boyd <williamb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> >> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> >> attention.
>
> > The unemployment rate is over 20% right now, in the U.S.A. At last REPORT
> > (that I heard anyway) it was near 7%. But the formula was changed/fudged so
> > that it no longer included discouraged workers. In other words, if this was
> > say, 1968, the REPORTED unemployment level would be about 22%. -Dave
>
> OK Chicken Little why don't you use the statistics.
>
> http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09037/947350-100.stm
>
> U.S. unemployment rate hits 7.6 percent
> Friday, February 06, 2009
> By Ann Belser, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
>
> The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics today released the unemployment
> figures for January showing that the economy shed 598,000 jobs last
> month, bringing the unemployment rate to 7.6 percent, its highest level
> in 16 years.
>
> December's jobless rate was 7.2 percent.
>
> Manufacturing was the sector that was the hardest hit, losing 207,000
> jobs during the month and accounting for about 35 percent of all of the
> recent job losses.
>
> Pennsylvania job numbers for January won't be released until later this
> month.
> First published on February 6, 2009 at 11:14 am
no need to rude,,,, its the recourse of a man without an argument,,,
just abuse
to shut the other person up,
not impressive
the govt stats have been spun badly for years,,,, for the analysis
see www.shadowstats,com
others will filll you in on how the unemployment stat has been spun.
its closer to 15 pct than 7pct/ and purchasing power is below 1970
levels.
google has thusands of USGAO reports on that and university level
studies etc
Phil scott
== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:08 pm
From: phil scott
On Feb 13, 9:43 am, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > "William Boyd" <williamb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Dave wrote:
> >>>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> >>>> attention.
>
> >>> The unemployment rate is over 20% right now, in the U.S.A. At last
> >>> REPORT (that I heard anyway) it was near 7%. But the formula was
> >>> changed/fudged so that it no longer included discouraged workers. In
> >>> other words, if this was say, 1968, the REPORTED unemployment level would
> >>> be about 22%.
>
> >> OK Chicken Little why don't you use the statistics.
>
> >>http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09037/947350-100.stm
>
> >> U.S. unemployment rate hits 7.6 percent
>
> > and when those statistics add in discouraged workers? The number is far
> > greater than 7.6% -Dave
>
> Clearly, but I wonder how that number is determined. Do government workers
> survey the people who exhausted their unemployment? Perhaps this is a good job
> for the people who have exhausted their unemployment...
>
> --
> Cheers, Bev
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> "I can't stand this proliferation of paperwork. It's useless to
> fight the forms. You've got to kill the people producing them."
> -- Vladimir Kabaidze- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
govt knows who is working and who is not by employer quarterly reports
and w2 and w9 form submissions, it just servers their'
purposes to use only active unemployment claims... a way to make
things look better than they are and limit panic in the population
Phil scott
== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:22 pm
From: Igor The Terrible
On Feb 13, 7:48 am, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> on 2/13/09 5:11 AM GLOBALIST said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 4:14 am, Igor The Terrible
> > <igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> >>>> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> >>>> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> >>>> falling apart.
> >>>> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> >>>> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> >>>> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> >>>> running themselves into bankruptcy!
> >>>> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> >>>> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> >>>> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> >>>> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> >>>> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> >>>> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> >>>> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> >>>> themselves.
> >>>> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> >>>> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> >>>> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> >>>> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
> >>>> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> >>>> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> >>>> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
> >>>> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> >>>> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> >>>> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> >>>> long cured from this land!
> >>>> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> >>>> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> >>>> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> >>>> "alternative lifestyle."
> >>>> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> >>>> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
> >>>> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> >>>> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
> >>> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> >>> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> >>> population. (yes, means White!)
> >>> ted
> >>> sites to visit:
> >>>http://www.wvw.net/Western Voices World News
> >>>http://www.newnation.org/New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
> >> is still thriving.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > I agree.....this US supremacy bullshit was getting real old. I hope
> > to hell we will not be a super power anymore, since all it meant was
> > we can kill whoever we want for our greed.
>
> If the USA loses reserve currency status, you will see real financial
> problems as America will not be able to continue as debtor nation buying
> imports and the exporting nations buying US Treasuries to fund deficit
> spending year after year. It is not sustainable in the long run, but
> politicos are too stupid to realize that. So expect things to get real
> ugly...like rioting in the streets and young against old.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You are preaching to the choir. I agree 100%
== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:26 pm
From: Igor The Terrible
On Feb 13, 7:43 am, Dan <d...@nospam.net> wrote:
> on 2/13/09 4:14 AM Igor The Terrible said the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> >>> I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> >>> if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> >>> falling apart.
> >>> We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> >>> proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> >>> and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> >>> running themselves into bankruptcy!
> >>> Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> >>> turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> >>> anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> >>> he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> >>> to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> >>> Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> >>> These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> >>> themselves.
> >>> American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> >>> colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> >>> an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> >>> ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
> >>> We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> >>> on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> >>> just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
> >>> We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> >>> who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> >>> pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> >>> long cured from this land!
> >>> We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> >>> and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> >>> sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> >>> "alternative lifestyle."
> >>> If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> >>> racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
> >>> Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> >>> country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
> >> When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> >> attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> >> population. (yes, means White!)
>
> >> ted
>
> >> sites to visit:
>
> >>http://www.wvw.net/Western Voices World News
>
> >>http://www.newnation.org/New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
> > is still thriving.
>
> Africa is thriving? Europe is thriving? China is thriving? Do read
> the financial papers? Russia is basket case.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I didn't say anything about economics, simply population growth.
Seems like the Anglo-Saxon/protestant work ethic or fragments thereof
and principles seem to survive even until this day. Some folks feel
if they can't afford to raise a family and give their kids what they
believe they should have--they simply don't have them. There are
other reason of course, but this is just one of them. You can blame
other crap like people putting careers before family, others simply
don't want them and the responsibilities, they don't want to bring
them into this rotten world, fertility problems and no insurance or
money to pay for medical assistance, downright resentment toward
marriage--especially the 24 hour American meet-screw-marry-divorce
institution which in the same has become a cash cow for lawyers,
etc.... I'm sure you get the picture.
== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:37 pm
From: Igor The Terrible
On Feb 13, 6:11 am, GLOBALIST <free.tun...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 4:14 am, Igor The Terrible
>
>
>
>
>
> <igor_the_terri...@mad.scientist.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 13, 5:01 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 23:45:15 -0500, Test User <T...@NosSpam.net>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > >It's all falling apart, isn't it?
> > > >I've been taking a look at the big picture again lately and forgive me
> > > >if I speak the obvious but, it's all falling apart. America. It's
> > > >falling apart.
>
> > > >We have Ivy League Schools whose graduates are dumber than sand. Need
> > > >proof? Look at the financial debacle. These Ivy League Bankers, Brokers
> > > >and Money Managers were too friggin stupid to figure out they were
> > > >running themselves into bankruptcy!
>
> > > >Many of today's American businessmen who aren't outright stupid, are
> > > >turning out to be sociopaths; brazenly robbing, defrauding and scamming
> > > >anyone they can. Take the head of AIG for example; such a schemer that
> > > >he wrecked his company by intentionally doing business in such a way as
> > > >to make bigger bonuses for himself. Same thing with the top guys in
> > > >Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
>
> > > >These guys ran their companies right into Bankruptcy just to enrich
> > > >themselves.
>
> > > >American public school kids are graduating high schools and even
> > > >colleges so dumb that most of them cannot find their own home states on
> > > >an unlabeled map! A whole slew of them can't do basic calculus and their
> > > >ability to spell or think critically is virtually non-existent.
>
> > > >We have a government that is spending so much money there isn't enough
> > > >on the entire planet to lend to them, so they have to print their own
> > > >just to keep pace. That can't last much longer.
>
> > > >We have millions of diseased, uneducated illegal aliens in the country
> > > >who have brought with them their filthy, third-world cultures. These
> > > >pieces of human filth have caused resurgence in diseases like polio,
> > > >long cured from this land!
>
> > > >We treat homosexuals like they're some sort of gift instead of a plague;
> > > >and in some places, the boards of education are unleashing these
> > > >sodomites on young school children to "teach them" about the so-called
> > > >"alternative lifestyle."
>
> > > >If you dare speak out about this stuff, you're smeared as a 'hater" or
> > > >racist, bigot, homophobe or some other such thing.
>
> > > >Things are so bad on so many levels that I no longer recognize my own
> > > >country. Somethings gotta give. This cannot go on.
>
> > > When the unemployment rate gets to 10% it should get America's
> > > attention. Yes, America is in decline via dilution of it's european
> > > population. (yes, means White!)
>
> > > ted
>
> > > sites to visit:
>
> > >http://www.wvw.net/ Western Voices World News
>
> > >http://www.newnation.org/ New Nation News- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > So...........? Big deal. The rest of the world's human population
> > is still thriving.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I agree.....this US supremacy bullshit was getting real old. I hope
> to hell we will not be a super power anymore, since all it meant was
> we can kill whoever we want for our greed.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree 100% based on the conditions you have given. OTST, being a
strong power on the planet is not necessarily a bad thing if you have
sensible foreign policies to go along with it. Namely: Mind your own
business. If you are a super power, odds are you have more than
enough domestic problems to tend to much less some other nation's(').
==============================================================================
TOPIC: America is doomed without industrial restoration
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3ac833194943bee0?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:47 pm
From: Democracy Highlander
On Feb 13, 6:38 pm, residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote:
> China's current economic tumble shows that even
> a highly productive economy with a high manufacturing
> capacity does not necessarily adequately protect
> an economy from a downturn -
Do not cry for China. If they really want, they can double or more
their living standard overnight with a simple economic-political
decision: Let the yuan free simultaneously with imposing unbearable
penalties to
any manufacturer who dismantle Chinese factories to move them
offshore.
Of course, if they do this simultaneously with them approaching our
current lifestyle, this will threw us toward their level of life.
China former economic policies made a lot of sense to encourage
imbecile US corporations to close their factories and move them in
China due to cheap labor. By this, they were able to industrialize
itself
in 20 years at the level the West industrialized in 200 years, and
simultaneously importing know-how and advanced technologies. But to
achieve this goal, they paid a very hig price by forcefully keeping
their own population at poverty levels. Once the West does not do that
anymore, it make no sense for China to play the same game.
Yes, with a strike of the pen the Chinese workers can become one of
the highest paid in the world (keep in mind, real wealth have nothing
to do with money but with how much goods and services you can buy with
the money you have). It also make a lot of sense for China to do that
if they want to weaken the west economies (mainly US) at the point of
total collapse of western civilization. A war which China can win
without a single bullet, just because of out imbecile and criminal
"free-market/free-trade" dogma.
> Even if our economy was self-sustaining requiring no imports or
> exports AND all immigration was eliminated - - such situation
> would still not guarantee economic health. Why? Because
> wealth is a man-man artificial abstract concept - what people
> peg as worthy or less worthy. Economic wealth is for the most
> part not set by physical constructs - but by temporal
> social norms and values. A healthy economy is really
> a Game or Activity-Event that support social norms and values
> of that society. A unhealthy economy is not the breakdown
> of production but of the human relationships that are formed
> for mutual benefit. When the game is no longer beneficial
> people stop playing - e.g. Mayan Civilization.
Not quite. Wealth it is a dual concept, both abstract and real.
The best economic definition of wealth is the one based on survival
time.
The wealth is the amount of time you can survive DECENTLY if you stop
having any income.
If this is 5 days, you are dirty poor if is 5000 years you are
stinking rich.
The subjective/abstract part in this definition is the word DECENTLY.
For an African poor from (former ??? Republic of) Niger DECENT means
to have enough to eat every day so he do not starve again. For a US
middle class family, DECENT means a minimum 1500 sqft single family
home, 2 cars, one TV and one computer per person food, electricity,
Internet, health care etc...
But, having these differences weathered down, the economic definition
of wealth become very very real.
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 7:03 pm
From: "DanB (Previously DB)"
Mark M. wrote:
> residualselfimage1999@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 6:26 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> All the bailouts... and the stimulii...all the hot air....the debt...
>>> the debt servicing... they DON"T MATTER
>>
>>
>>
>>> In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity.. the
>>> loss of US created wealth. Unless the US can rebuild its
>>> manufacturing capability it will be a
>>> long slide into a third world level of subsistence.
>>
>>
>> China's current economic tumble shows that even
>> a highly productive economy with a high manufacturing
>> capacity does not necessarily adequately protect
>> an economy from a downturn -
>
> China could help itself by having Chinese workers consume more of what
> they produce.
I think it may be easer said. They already have a huge wealth disparity
problem. Migrant workers are well off the charts of affording what they
produce. And catching up with the present loss of exports would require
a big move toward domestic consumption.
http://lakeweb.com/money/Social%20Unrest%20in%20China.pdf
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 8:12 pm
From: residualselfimage1999@gmail.com
On Feb 13, 8:47 pm, Democracy Highlander
<democracy.highlan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 6:38 pm, residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > China's current economic tumble shows that even
> > a highly productive economy with a high manufacturing
> > capacity does not necessarily adequately protect
> > an economy from a downturn -
>
> Do not cry for China. If they really want, they can double or more
> their living standard overnight with a simple economic-political
> decision: Let the yuan free simultaneously with imposing unbearable
> penalties to any manufacturer who dismantle Chinese factories
> to move them offshore.
China's economy downturn demonstrates
how suspectible a manufacturing base
economy can be to market fluctuations.
It is not that the yuan is not floating but
that Chinese banks are not buying back
the yuan - instead the Chinese banks have
been buying US T-bill -- with the US dollars
gained by the exports and domestically
exchanging US dollars to yuans for domestic
usage at a fixed pegged price. This essentially
means the chinese are lending money so
US government can spend more than it makes
in tax revenues. Certain number of
chinese textitle factories are already moving
offshore to Vietnam and Thailand where
the labor can be and is much cheaper.
China's labor protection laws and financial
securities law /oversight are weak so
high employment is no guarantee of that's
you'll get paid for work/.service rendered
or that your financial investments is sound.
> Of course, if they do this simultaneously with them approaching our
> current lifestyle, this will threw us toward their level of life.
Economic globalization that most US politicians
support is suppose to eventually equalize and
transform all local economies (into one big
massive global economy) but local standard of
living. The downside to a global economy is that
when there is a downturn - its global - there is no
where to hide.
>
> China former economic policies made a lot of sense to encourage
> imbecile US corporations to close their factories and move them in
> China due to cheap labor. By this, they were able to industrialize
> itself in 20 years at the level the West industrialized in 200 years, and
> simultaneously importing know-how and advanced technologies. But to
> achieve this goal, they paid a very hig price by forcefully keeping
> their own population at poverty levels. Once the West does not do that
> anymore, it make no sense for China to play the same game.
>
US corporation also move their factories to places like
Ireland, Vietnam, Mexico, Brazil, and Canada, too.
China is a very big country - and a good portion of its
eastern rural provinces are not industrialized. One of
the reasons many in China are still poor is not because
labor was cheap but that technological assess,
access to capital, and commerical licensing access
is still very much restricted.
> Yes, with a strike of the pen the Chinese workers can become one of
> the highest paid in the world (keep in mind, real wealth have nothing
> to do with money but with how much goods and services you can buy with
> the money you have). It also make a lot of sense for China to do that
> if they want to weaken the west economies (mainly US) at the point of
> total collapse of western civilization. A war which China can win
> without a single bullet, just because of out imbecile and criminal
> "free-market/free-trade" dogma.
A higher evalation of the yuan vs. the US dollar would not
necessarily
make goods and services cheaper for the chinese unless those goods
and services were from the USA. Other goods like a barrel of crude
oil may just increase in cost to adjust for the increase evaluation of
the yuan. Nor would having a higher evaluation make accesss to
certain goods and serives available to the chinese, case in point
the USA import-export regulations bans dual-use technologies from
being sold to China.
>
> > Even if our economy was self-sustaining requiring no imports or
> > exports AND all immigration was eliminated - - such situation
> > would still not guarantee economic health. Why? Because
> > wealth is a man-man artificial abstract concept - what people
> > peg as worthy or less worthy. Economic wealth is for the most
> > part not set by physical constructs - but by temporal
> > social norms and values. A healthy economy is really
> > a Game or Activity-Event that support social norms and values
> > of that society. A unhealthy economy is not the breakdown
> > of production but of the human relationships that are formed
> > for mutual benefit. When the game is no longer beneficial
> > people stop playing - e.g. Mayan Civilization.
>
> Not quite. Wealth it is a dual concept, both abstract and real.
> The best economic definition of wealth is the one based on survival
> time. The wealth is the amount of time you can survive
> DECENTLY if you stop having any income. If this is 5 days,
> you are dirty poor if is 5000 years you are stinking rich.
> The subjective/abstract part in this definition is the word DECENTLY.
> For an African poor from (former ??? Republic of) Niger DECENT means
> to have enough to eat every day so he do not starve again. For a US
> middle class family, DECENT means a minimum 1500 sqft single family
> home, 2 cars, one TV and one computer per person food, electricity,
> Internet, health care etc...
> But, having these differences weathered down, the economic definition
> of wealth become very very real.
Your definition strays from the truth in that
it cannot explain the great disparity of income and
compensation in the USA, The problem is that as
economic agents, like corporate giants, become
very large, there is a huge separation between those
that actually generate goods and services and those
that just own or *manage* or *sell* them. When
this separation occurs - the rational for income
and compensation become abstractions. As you
pointed out economic standards vary by region
such that what is *decent* in Niger would be
unacceptable in Texas. Rather that say that wealth
is a pure abstraction - I wanted to say that wealth
is about part of a social contract that reflects the
values of the community. For example, Superstar
Michael Jackson is rich because people value
his singing and therefore paid alot of money for his
musical performances. Likewise, when society
started relying more on motor vehicles, the market
for the horse and buggy carriages went south.
Having guild or closed labor pool, e.g. lawyers,
occurs because society values one labor group
over another and thus gives that labor group
more economic leverage than others, e.g.
video rental store sale clerks.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 8:25 pm
From: residualselfimage1999@gmail.com
On Feb 13, 10:03 pm, "DanB (Previously DB)" <a...@some.net> wrote:
> Mark M. wrote:
> > residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Feb 12, 6:26 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>> All the bailouts... and the stimulii...all the hot air....the debt...
> >>> the debt servicing... they DON"T MATTER
>
> >>> In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity.. the
> >>> loss of US created wealth. Unless the US can rebuild its
> >>> manufacturing capability it will be a
> >>> long slide into a third world level of subsistence.
>
> >> China's current economic tumble shows that even
> >> a highly productive economy with a high manufacturing
> >> capacity does not necessarily adequately protect
> >> an economy from a downturn -
>
> > China could help itself by having Chinese workers consume more of what
> > they produce.
>
> I think it may be easer said. They already have a huge wealth disparity
> problem. Migrant workers are well off the charts of affording what they
> produce. And catching up with the present loss of exports would require
> a big move toward domestic consumption.
>
> http://lakeweb.com/money/Social%20Unrest%20in%20China.pdf- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Unfortunately, many if not most of china's factory workers are migrant
workers
coming in from the rural countryside/inner provinces and are paid very
little if
they are paid at all. Their economic condition cannot be improve by
waving
the magic wand of imports-exports or changing currency evaluation. The
only
financial mechanism that has been shown to improve the economic
opportunity
of the poor has been micro-capitalization (micro-loans) and small
business
incubator/development programs (which were shown to work in
Banglesdesh).
Economic opportunity is not created by giving money or credit to
large
corporations or by every single person. Rather economic growth and
opportunity
is found by searching for and empowering those relationships which
are capable for providing services and products that the market/
community needs and desires. Empowerment involves extension of
credit, market access, transfer of skills, and soforth.
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:10 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
residualselfimage1999@gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 13, 10:03 pm, "DanB (Previously DB)" <a...@some.net> wrote:
>> Mark M. wrote:
>>> residualselfimage1...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Feb 12, 6:26 am, wis...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>>> All the bailouts... and the stimulii...all the hot air....the
>>>>> debt... the debt servicing... they DON"T MATTER
>>
>>>>> In the long run it all comes down to loss of US productivity.. the
>>>>> loss of US created wealth. Unless the US can rebuild its
>>>>> manufacturing capability it will be a
>>>>> long slide into a third world level of subsistence.
>>
>>>> China's current economic tumble shows that even
>>>> a highly productive economy with a high manufacturing
>>>> capacity does not necessarily adequately protect
>>>> an economy from a downturn -
>>
>>> China could help itself by having Chinese workers consume more of
>>> what they produce.
>>
>> I think it may be easer said. They already have a huge wealth
>> disparity problem. Migrant workers are well off the charts of
>> affording what they produce. And catching up with the present loss
>> of exports would require
>> a big move toward domestic consumption.
>>
>> http://lakeweb.com/money/Social%20Unrest%20in%20China.pdf-
> Unfortunately, many if not most of china's factory workers are migrant
> workers coming in from the rural countryside/inner provinces
Yes.
> and are paid very little if they are paid at all.
That last is a mindless pig ignorant lie. They wouldnt be coming
to the factorys if they werent being paid to work in them.
> Their economic condition cannot be improve by waving the
> magic wand of imports-exports or changing currency evaluation.
Correct.
> The only financial mechanism that has been shown to improve the
> economic opportunity of the poor has been micro-capitalization
> (micro-loans) and small business incubator/development
> programs (which were shown to work in Banglesdesh).
Wrong. The other obvious approach is exports and those working
in those factorys buying the goods that the factorys produce.
And they all do that last.
> Economic opportunity is not created by giving money or credit to large corporations
Corse it is.
> or by every single person.
That can do it too, particularly when they dont have large debts that they choose to pay down instead.
> Rather economic growth and opportunity is found by searching for
> and empowering those relationships which are capable for providing
> services and products that the market/community needs and desires.
Thats just one approach that works too.
> Empowerment involves extension of credit, market access, transfer of skills, and soforth.
And is just one approach that works.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hard boiled eggs.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/032a3102de8f165d?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:52 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
James Silverton wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote on Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:48:14 -0800 (PST):
>
>> On Feb 13, 2:59 pm, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> My local Safeway has large eggs on sale this week for 99
>>> cents a dozen.
>>>
>>> If I cook a bunch of hard boiled eggs would they keep in
>>> their shells at room temperature? I don't have room in the
>>> fridge.
>
>> Leave them raw in the shell up to 6 weeks in the fridge only.
>> Cooked only last about 3 days. Eggs are cheap, anyway, so why
>> bother to "stock up?"
>
> What happens if you freeze a hardboiled egg? I've never tried.
The whites end up unacceptable.
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=freeze+hardboiled+egg
== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 5:59 pm
From: Dave Garland
Nancy2 wrote:
> Leave them raw in the shell up to 6 weeks in the fridge only. Cooked
> only last about 3 days.
Pickled they'll last months. Hard boiled eggs, vinegar, onion, maybe
a few jalapenoes or chile peppers, a little salt & sugar. A couple
of slices of cooked or pickled beet if you want them to turn pink. A
sixth the price you'd pay for commercial pickled eggs. Don't eat them
all at one sitting.
Dave
== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:36 pm
From: sandi
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote in
> Pickled they'll last months. Hard boiled eggs, vinegar,
> onion, maybe
> a few jalapenoes or chile peppers, a little salt & sugar. A
> couple
> of slices of cooked or pickled beet if you want them to turn
> pink. A sixth the price you'd pay for commercial pickled
> eggs. Don't eat them all at one sitting.
>
> Dave
:) Thanks for the idea
== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:43 pm
From: Omelet
In article
<751b76a5-ac27-493b-9498-3f0d8486440b@e6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>,
James <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote:
> My local Safeway has large eggs on sale this week for 99 cents a
> dozen.
>
> If I cook a bunch of hard boiled eggs would they keep in their shells
> at room temperature? I don't have room in the fridge.
They will keep better at room temperature RAW so long as the shells are
intact. I used to keep hatching eggs for up to 14 days and still get a
decent hatch rate as long as I kept turning them.
Just make sure the room is fairly cool. It's winter, you could probably
store some in the garage.
Alternately, you could make some egg dishes (such as quiche or frittata)
and freeze it.
--
Peace! Om
I find hope in the darkest of days, and focus in the brightest. I do not judge the universe. -- Dalai Lama
== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 8:11 pm
From: The Real Bev
Dave Garland wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote:
>> Leave them raw in the shell up to 6 weeks in the fridge only. Cooked
>> only last about 3 days.
>
> Pickled they'll last months. Hard boiled eggs, vinegar, onion, maybe
> a few jalapenoes or chile peppers, a little salt & sugar. A couple
> of slices of cooked or pickled beet if you want them to turn pink. A
> sixth the price you'd pay for commercial pickled eggs. Don't eat them
> all at one sitting.
How long does it take before you can tell they're pickled if you wash off the
vinegar?
--
Cheers, Bev
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again
incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:11 pm
From: "Ed Pawlowski"
"brooklyn1" <gravesend10@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>
>> Bear in mind that if you hard-boil them, then you can pile them all in a
>> vertical container that takes a lot less space than an egg carton.
>>
>>
>>
> That's just silly... any fridge with enough height between shelves to
> stack a dozen eggs would be humongous, would certainly have room to store
> eggs the normal way. Six large eggs stacked short side to short side (as
> in an egg carton) measure like 10". A dozen eggs would need like a 20"
> long tube...
Talk about silly. Why would they have to be stacked egg on egg? A pitcher
though, would stack them vertical, yet nested a bit and take minimal space.
Loosen up your thought process a bit.
== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 9:14 pm
From: "Ed Pawlowski"
"James" <j0069bond@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:751b76a5-ac27-493b-9498-3f0d8486440b@e6g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> My local Safeway has large eggs on sale this week for 99 cents a
> dozen.
>
> If I cook a bunch of hard boiled eggs would they keep in their shells
> at room temperature? I don't have room in the fridge.
In spite of all the admonitions to refrigerate, I'm still alive. When we
were kids, the Easter eggs were colored on Friday or Saturday and sat at
room temperature for at least 2 to 4 days.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: need a small, inexpensive urban TV antenna
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22d545ae9e8cb014?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:04 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Gordon wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Gordon wrote
>>> John A. Weeks III <john@johnweeks.com> wrote
>>>> Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote
>>>>> One big problem with DTV is multipath.
>>>> No, digital TV is designed to cure that problem. There are
>>>> no ghosts or other signal based artifacts visible on screen.
>>> Yes and no.
>> Yes and yes, actually.
>>> As I was explaining to Rod, multipath is a problem with DTV.
> And, of course, Rod doesn't believe that DTV can be less than perfect.
You're lying, as always. I never ever said it was anything like perfect.
If you dont get a strong enough signal, you'll get dropouts, as I said.
> So here he is chiming in to tell me that I was just seeing things.
> It must have been all a bad dream. He can't believe that my
> rabbit ears only gave a signal strength of 45 at best.
Irrelevant to whether many who didnt get an acceptible picture
with rabbit ears with analog find that DTV is fine with rabbit ears.
> That I had to switch to a dual dipole to get readings in the 80s.
What matters is what produces an acceptable DTV result, no dropouts or pixelation.
> That we used a directional antenna and a profesional
> field strength meter (does Rod even know what that is?)
Wrong, as always. Even someone as stupid as you should be able to see
me recommending the use of one using groups.google if someone was
actually stupid enough to lend you a seeing eye dog and a white cane.
>> No it aint. And thats why those who find that internal rabbit ears
>> that dont give an acceptible result with analog work fine with DTV.
>>> And althought there are no ghosting or the
>>> usual artifacts of analoge TV, the bit error
>>> rate of the recieved digital signal goes up.
>> Wrong again. You only get that with a very weak signal, not multipath.
>>> That causes pixelation and artifacts.
>> You dont necessarily even get that, you may get dropouts with weak signals.
>>> To a large extent, DTV can shrug off a certian amount of this.
>> That doesnt even make any logical sense.
>>> But in situations where there is bad multipath
>>> issues, even the best DTV has problems.
>> Wrong, as always.
> You just proved to me that you are clueless about RF propagation.
> You have obviously never worked in an RF lab.
Guess which pathetic little prat has just got egg all over its pathetic little face, as always ?
> Don't know about the effects of RF propagation on digital signals.
> You are an idiot. I'm wasting my time here. This conversation is ended.
Wrong, as always.
>>> How do I know? First hand experience. I spent a day up at
>>> my friend's house fighting multipath issues with his DTV setup.
>>
>> You dont have a clue about what you are doing.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV converters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e46bdc878c0fe848?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:19 pm
From: Ralph
On Feb 13, 6:12 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "BigDog1" <bigdog...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2bf28723-907d-4bf3-b346-98a4037452a1@r29g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 12, 6:34 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > <albun...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:4f4e262c-a0ef-4f74-b844-549ac502b5b0@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > On Feb 11, 8:08 pm, "John A. Weeks III" <j...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <4992f706$0$5057$6c36a...@news.usenetserver.com>,
>
> > > > info_at_1-script_dot_...@foo.com (spendwize.com) wrote:
> > > > > The problem with buying any of these converters is that you won't
> > truly
> > > > > know how well they work until the conversion goes into effect! I
> > bought
> > > > > one when the coupons first came out and now that the conversion date
> > has
> > > > > been postponed, it'll be well-past the warranty time of a year when
> it
> > > > > will be put to the test!
>
> > > > More misinformation. All stations that are going digital have
> > > > had their DTV transmitters up and running for quite some time,
> > > > in fact, as long as 5 years. You converter should work right
> > > > now just as things are. If it don't work now, it isn't going
> > > > to work after the cut-over.
>
> > > > -john-
>
> > > And if the stations are already on digital as almost all are, why not
> > > change over sooner rather than later?
>
> > Because not everyone has a converter.
>
> Why wouldn't someone who needs one, not have it yet? It's not like it
> hasn't been two years or more since this change over was announced.
> These are the same people who don't know Christmas comes on December
> 25th every year; or who waited until the night before a term paper was
> due to start on it. Anyone who's not ready now, isn't likely to be
> ready in June, October or even next year. No reason to delay it for
> those of us who take care of our business.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> It doesn't delay it for those who have a converter - go ahead and use it.
> What it does delay is when broadcasters MUST shut off the traditional analog
> signal.
Because until those analog transmitters are turned off the digital
transmitters are operating at 50% or less power. Many of us are the
outside edge of the current range of the digital signals, but will be
good to go once the power is turned up. I'm one of those, and I'm
pissed! Because a comparatively small number of people can't get
their act together the new Socialist, err... Democratic administration
has decided to move the date. Bullshit!
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:30 pm
From: BigDog1
On Feb 13, 6:00 pm, "John A. Weeks III" <j...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
> In article
> <34ef36fd-05ff-43fa-8960-b96fb8e9c...@n10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
>
> BigDog1 <bigdog...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yep. Bought one of those about 4 years. A 42" Panasonic HD ready
> > 16:9 format CRT.
>
> A large CRT can look stunning. That is about the only way to
> get a good black level in a picture without spending a zillion
> on a plasma set. The only issue is that they weigh about as
> much as an aircraft carrier. I cannot move my Sony 36" CRT
> without help.
>
> -john-
>
> --
> ======================================================================
> John A. Weeks III 612-720-2854 j...@johnweeks.com
> Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
> ======================================================================
Mine weighs in at just under 200 lbs. It's the only TV I've ever
owned that I had to have delivered. Haven't moved it since the
delivery people set it up, and couldn't if I wanted to.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 13 2009 6:59 pm
From: BigDog1
On Feb 13, 7:19 pm, Ralph <usma2002...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 6:12 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "BigDog1" <bigdog...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:2bf28723-907d-4bf3-b346-98a4037452a1@r29g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 12, 6:34 pm, "Lou" <lpog...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > <albun...@mailinator.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:4f4e262c-a0ef-4f74-b844-549ac502b5b0@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > On Feb 11, 8:08 pm, "John A. Weeks III" <j...@johnweeks.com> wrote:
> > > > > In article <4992f706$0$5057$6c36a...@news.usenetserver.com>,
>
> > > > > info_at_1-script_dot_...@foo.com (spendwize.com) wrote:
> > > > > > The problem with buying any of these converters is that you won't
> > > truly
> > > > > > know how well they work until the conversion goes into effect! I
> > > bought
> > > > > > one when the coupons first came out and now that the conversion date
> > > has
> > > > > > been postponed, it'll be well-past the warranty time of a year when
> > it
> > > > > > will be put to the test!
>
> > > > > More misinformation. All stations that are going digital have
> > > > > had their DTV transmitters up and running for quite some time,
> > > > > in fact, as long as 5 years. You converter should work right
> > > > > now just as things are. If it don't work now, it isn't going
> > > > > to work after the cut-over.
>
> > > > > -john-
>
> > > > And if the stations are already on digital as almost all are, why not
> > > > change over sooner rather than later?
>
> > > Because not everyone has a converter.
>
> > Why wouldn't someone who needs one, not have it yet? It's not like it
> > hasn't been two years or more since this change over was announced.
> > These are the same people who don't know Christmas comes on December
> > 25th every year; or who waited until the night before a term paper was
> > due to start on it. Anyone who's not ready now, isn't likely to be
> > ready in June, October or even next year. No reason to delay it for
> > those of us who take care of our business.
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > It doesn't delay it for those who have a converter - go ahead and use it.
> > What it does delay is when broadcasters MUST shut off the traditional analog
> > signal.
>
> Because until those analog transmitters are turned off the digital
> transmitters are operating at 50% or less power. Many of us are the
> outside edge of the current range of the digital signals, but will be
> good to go once the power is turned up. I'm one of those, and I'm
> pissed! Because a comparatively small number of people can't get
> their act together the new Socialist, err... Democratic administration
> has decided to move the date. Bullshit!
That's correct, and I agree. But it may not be so bad, at least not
in all markets. The mandatory date has been moved, but individual
stations are free to make the change any time they want. In my area,
the NBC affiliate announced today that they were turning off their
analog on, or very near the original date. The CBS station said they
are making the change by the end of the month. I'm betting the rest
will fall in line because they'll lose too many viewers to others
stations with stronger signals and greater range.
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