Frugal Living: Dec 28, 2007

Friday, December 28, 2007

25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: UN official calls biofuel schemes a "crime against humanity! Food riots
around the world! Bush bill wil starve the world!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d74a7292558d763e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 9:10 am
From: Larry Bud

> One big cause is USA's huge trade deficit, with USA pumping out dollars
> abroad. About 35% of USA's trade deficit is in importing oil! We ain't
> yet cutting back much in consumption when the price makes the pump price
> of gasoline $3.10 a gallon!

The term "trade deficit" is as misleading as they come. There is no
deficit. We've traded money for an equal value of goods.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 9:24 am
From: clams_casino

Larry Bud wrote:

>> One big cause is USA's huge trade deficit, with USA pumping out dollars
>>abroad. About 35% of USA's trade deficit is in importing oil! We ain't
>>yet cutting back much in consumption when the price makes the pump price
>>of gasoline $3.10 a gallon!
>>
>>
>
>The term "trade deficit" is as misleading as they come. There is no
>deficit. We've traded money for an equal value of goods.
>
>

and the suckers think the US dollar will have the same value tomorrow as
it does today.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 10:28 am
From: "Rod Speed"

clams_casino <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Larry Bud wrote:
>
>>> One big cause is USA's huge trade deficit, with USA pumping out
>>> dollars abroad. About 35% of USA's trade deficit is in importing
>>> oil! We ain't yet cutting back much in consumption when the price
>>> makes the pump price of gasoline $3.10 a gallon!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The term "trade deficit" is as misleading as they come. There is no
>> deficit. We've traded money for an equal value of goods.
>>
>>
>
>
> and the suckers think the US dollar will have the same value tomorrow
> as it does today.

Nope, they just dont have any choice on that if they want the sale.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 3:06 pm
From: Horvath

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:24:00 -0500, clams_casino
<PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote this crap:

>>The term "trade deficit" is as misleading as they come. There is no
>>deficit. We've traded money for an equal value of goods.
>>
>
>and the suckers think the US dollar will have the same value tomorrow as
>it does today.

Mine will.

George_Z@Horvath.net

This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help - I need to get my credit card debt under control
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/072147bbeeb4a6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 9:24 am
From: "Dave L"

"John Weiss" <jrweiss98155NOSPAM@NOSPAM.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ZO-dnfdKjJx7G-nanZ2dnUVZ_uqvnZ2d@comcast.com...
> <rochester@myaddress.rr.com> wrote...
>>
>> Okay, last time I address replies not on topic, but:
>>
>> 1. I already explained how I came to have these credit card balances.
>> I am not proud of them, or that I got myself here, but it happened. I
>> am not an idiot.
>>
>> 2. So if I had one-third the income and one-third the debt, you'd
>> elevate yourself to address my actual question? I doubt it. How does
>> the fact that my income somehow sets off your envy buttons factor into
>> this?
>>
>> 3. Unless I wind up much older than I would like to, my life is more
>> than half over. Debt had never been a problem for me; it became one
>> five years ago. If debt was a lifelong problem for me, I'd not have
>> the still better-than-average FICO scores.
>
> "Not on topic"?!?
>
> First, you have to get to the point where you admit that you are NOW at
> least in part responsible for the mess you're in.

Not to be too nitpicky, but the very first sentence of the OP's post was:
"Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit card
debt." I thought that was taking responsibility.

> You tell us you "need" a "nice" car. Maybe you "need" a nice Kia or
> Saturn, but you do NOT "need" a nice Lexus or Accura. You can find MANY
> "nice" cars for less than $450/month. Once you get one, you can put the
> difference in car payments into the principal on your debt, and start
> showing your bank or other lender that you are worthy of their trust for a
> lower interest loan.

Depending on your job, a nice car can do wonders especially if you're in
sales and need to take clients out. You don't need the Porche or Mercedes,
but you don't want a Kia or Saturn! In other words, you don't want to see
an executive or pharmaceutical rep taking clients in a Kia. Working for a
fleet leasing company I see and understand this.

> You tell us you don't trust credit counseling services. How many have
> you approached? How many banks have you applied to for consolidation
> loans? How many public service agencies have you approached for
> referrals? What have any of them told you? If you have nothing from any
> of them, you're not even trying!

Some credit counseling services may be good. I've seen more bad/fraudulent
ones just on the evening news. The trick is finding a good one that won't
put you in a worse position.

> The good news is that you survived your unemployment period -- barely.
>
> The bad news is that you have yet to resolve yourself to the fact that you
> need to scrimp on luxuries -- including those you may THINK are
> necessities -- in order to get your fiscal ducks in a row. You're going
> to have to WORK at it -- the payoffs are not going to drop themselves in
> your lap!

Sounds like the OP is trying to get things taken care of now and is seeking
advice. He will have to work at it and from the tone of his posts that's
what it sounds like he's trying to do. I'm not trying to defend how he got
in this position but after reading everything he has said, he sounds like a
decent guy who's not trying to shirk his responsibilities. Too many people
do this and file bankruptcy (hence the new laws). Sounds like he's still
servicing his debts but looking to dig himself out. With the takehome pay
he and his wife are now doing, it's possible. As you mentioned, they have
to WORK at it. I trust he's willing to do this - he has 3 kids, wife (who
also works), house mortgage and a job.

> Swallow a bit of pride and find out from your bank or other trusted friend
> where a reputable debt- and credit counseling service is. Then go to them
> armed with the information you KNOW they're going to ask for.

Either way. Sounds like he's taking responsibility, not blaming anyone else
and trying to find the best way to actually pay off the debt. It's much
more than what many people in his position would do. Reading everything
he's posted, I must give him credit for taking responsibility.

-Dave

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 9:26 am
From: "Dave L"

"Chloe" <justsayno@spam.com> wrote in message
news:47750acb$0$16143$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> "Coffee's For Closers" <Usenet2008@THE-DOMAIN-IN.SIG> wrote in message
> news:MPG.21de3d5c6701d28a989e22@nntp.aioe.org...
> <snip>
>> However, perhaps there is some leeway for a phone rep to give a
>> slightly better deal? I have heard of this happening when a
>> customer called and confidently stated something like, "Waive The
>> Yearly Fee, Or Close The Account. Right Now."
> <snip>
>
> My impression is the customers who get those results are *not* the ones
> making minimum payments on an enormous balance with a high interest rate.
> Not only are those people cash cows for the card issuer, they're likely to
> be bluffing since they probably can't get another card to replace the one
> they're threatening to close out.

I agree. Best to be professional and BE NICE!

-Dave

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6cfb25ec1202c403?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 9:41 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Great trackfon site
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/20271d6a767d74cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 10:46 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏

MrWeb wrote:
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> TANA Enterprises eMarketing
> http://www.//tracfone.us/
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
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>
> ---------------------------------------------------
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> TANA Enterprises eMarketing
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> ---------------------------------------------------

It's pretty sad when a spammer can't even get his own URL correct.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rodspeed, you think gift cards are barter that states are afraid will
take off?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/afb5c825dd0557e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 10:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Copper_water_oxygen <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Copper_water_oxygen <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> It is all about taxation.

>> Nope, its actually about an economy where the govt is close
>> to irrelevant except to limit the worse excesses of capitalism
>> like with monopolys and consumer safety etc.

>>> How do we get a government that spends with an aim of lifting all of us up?

>> Modern first world economys dont work like that.

> I am all for quitting work, going on strike if you will, and letting government
> try to figure out how it can control people who will not rebuild the machines,
> cut the grass, drive around aimlessly from shopping mall to grave or follow
> them around looking for political favors.

The hippys have been doing that for centurys now.
It doesnt appeal to enough people to matter.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did hot air popcorn machines go extinct?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1cd18f9995361a81?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 10:50 am
From: SMS 斯蒂文* 夏

Rick wrote:

> Kinda tired of the cost per unit for that prepackaged microwave popcorn.
> And - if anyone remembers - the microwave stuff is good, but it's kinda
> soggy compared to hot air popcorn. But shocked I am to find out that
> popcorn machines - especially hot air poppers - seemed to have vanished.
> Not looking for a hot oil machine - Presto has reinvented the "Stir
> Crazy" hot oil machine this year - already seen it.

I don't think that any of them were ever any better than the $10
Walgreen's model.

I suppose it'd be possible to design an elaborate hot air popper where
the unpopped kernels fell through some sort of wire mesh in the bottom
of an enclosed holding area, to be discarded or send back to the hot air
chamber, but it would be pretty complicated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap survival idea to stay warm?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b29f75b086954dfc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 11:33 am
From: keithcorn7@gmail.com

Hi folks,

I am living in an old house that was once build for many kids. They
run around and stay warm. That's why my house has no doors on the
inside. I isolated the windows with plastic and tape and put curtains
up to keep the heat of my space heater to keep one room warm. It helps
a bit but it still feels like in a not very well isolated log cabin.

I have a gas heater in the kitchen but the heat goes straight up to
the ceiling and below, where I am sitting, it stays rather cold and
gas is expensive too.

I am mainly sitting around my desk and typing. I was thinking of
building something around my desk to just keep me warm when sitting
inside and doing my desk work and have an electrical heater blowing
some heat at me. But the heat goes lost in the rather big rooms.

I have currently no car to transport lumber in my house and start to
build myself a shed within one of my rooms. I am also not too handly
with hammer and tools. I know, it is a shame, but this is how it is.

Do you have any ideas? Anything I could order thru the Internet?

Sincerely,
Keith

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 12:21 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

keithcorn7@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am living in an old house that was once build for many kids. They
> run around and stay warm. That's why my house has no doors on the
> inside. I isolated the windows with plastic and tape and put curtains
> up to keep the heat of my space heater to keep one room warm. It helps
> a bit but it still feels like in a not very well isolated log cabin.
>
> I have a gas heater in the kitchen but the heat goes straight up to
> the ceiling and below, where I am sitting, it stays rather cold and
> gas is expensive too.
>
> I am mainly sitting around my desk and typing. I was thinking of
> building something around my desk to just keep me warm when sitting
> inside and doing my desk work and have an electrical heater blowing
> some heat at me. But the heat goes lost in the rather big rooms.
>
> I have currently no car to transport lumber in my house and start to
> build myself a shed within one of my rooms. I am also not too handly
> with hammer and tools. I know, it is a shame, but this is how it is.
>
> Do you have any ideas?

Buy a coolroom and install it in the house and heat it instead of cooling it.

> Anything I could order thru the Internet?

Yep, a coolroom.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 1:23 pm
From: "Leroy"

keithcorn7@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I am mainly sitting around my desk and typing. I was thinking of
> building something around my desk to just keep me warm when sitting
> inside and doing my desk work and have an electrical heater blowing
> some heat at me. But the heat goes lost in the rather big rooms.

Buy a small tent like those used for camping. Pitch it inside the
room and put your desk, heater, and other stuff inside. Restricting
the volume to be heated and stopping air currents is the trick.
A couple of hundred watts of elec heat will make that tent
toasty.

Of course, you could do the same more cheaply. Pick a corner
of a room and make a smaller room with tarps or plastic sheeting.
For a frame, run overhead rope or wire, and tape the walls, ceiling
to it. Clear plastic will work OK and be less claustrophobic.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 2:03 pm
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

<keithcorn7@gmail.com> wrote:

You might put an electric heater with a thermostat under the desk
and make some sort of skirt that covers the hole for your knees...

Nick

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 2:32 pm
From: nobody@nowheres.com (the_blogologist)

<keithcorn7@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> I am living in an old house that was once build for many kids. They
> run around and stay warm. That's why my house has no doors on the
> inside. I isolated the windows with plastic and tape and put curtains
> up to keep the heat of my space heater to keep one room warm. It helps
> a bit but it still feels like in a not very well isolated log cabin.

Your house has no build in heat?? What keeps the pipes from freezing?

> I have a gas heater in the kitchen but the heat goes straight up to
> the ceiling and below, where I am sitting, it stays rather cold and
> gas is expensive too.

You might try to redirect the heat with a small fan on slow speed,
blowing and not pulling the heat so the fan doesn't melt.

> I am mainly sitting around my desk and typing. I was thinking of
> building something around my desk to just keep me warm when sitting
> inside and doing my desk work and have an electrical heater blowing
> some heat at me. But the heat goes lost in the rather big rooms.
>
> I have currently no car to transport lumber in my house and start to
> build myself a shed within one of my rooms. I am also not too handly
> with hammer and tools. I know, it is a shame, but this is how it is.
>
> Do you have any ideas? Anything I could order thru the Internet?

An electric blanket :-)

Unless you're really strapped for cash, I would NOT get a Sunbeam like
they sell at walmart. I tried two of them and both lost 80% to 90% of
their heat after one season. I still got the heated Sunbeam mattress
pad and you can barely tell it's on. I suspect the blanket failed
because one day it was it was bunched up too tight when it was on and
the heated pad seemed to fail after I put too much weight on one of the
elements with my knee. Or maybe it was just designed to fail after one
season :-/ I'm glad you started this thread, I'm going to try to take it
back to wally-world today.

If you think you might really have to depend on, get a good one.

At your desk have the blanket over your legs and under your feet, and
put the electric heater behind your back. Then at night transfer the
electric blanket to you bed.

> Sincerely,
> Keith

Btw, this was from Stormin Mormon about a month ago:

"During the one of the worst years of the horror of the Russian
Revolution, 1920, many people froze and starved to death, even in
their apartments in Moscow. It was a prime lesson on what can happen
here.

"In Moscow, oddly enough, the electricity was still on for most of the
winter, so one tactic was to make a small hut/igloo out of matresses
in the middle of your apartment and then run an electrical cord into
it with a light bulb on it the end to heat up your little hut."

I remember similar stories about Russians building a room in a room, but
I bet you don't want to make that much of a mess. Someone might suspect
cultist type activity ;-D

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 2:32 pm
From: nobody@nowheres.com (the_blogologist)

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Buy a coolroom and install it in the house and heat it instead of cooling it.
>
> > Anything I could order thru the Internet?
>
> Yep, a coolroom.

He said CHEAP survival idea to stay warm.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 2:46 pm
From: Gunner Asch

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 14:32:49 -0800, nobody@nowheres.com
(the_blogologist) wrote:

>Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Buy a coolroom and install it in the house and heat it instead of cooling it.
>>
>> > Anything I could order thru the Internet?
>>
>> Yep, a coolroom.
>
>He said CHEAP survival idea to stay warm.

Set up his tent in the room, with his desk inside of it.

Looks wierd, but will keep you warm with a small heater or some
incandescent light bulbs

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 2:44 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Ceiling fan, to blow some of the heat down?

Tarps from Habor Freight, maybe, to make a smaller section of room?

Christopher A. Young
.
.

<keithcorn7@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dea64a0d-8dad-447d-beaa-f03785aea80d@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Hi folks,

I have a gas heater in the kitchen but the heat goes straight up to
the ceiling and below, where I am sitting, it stays rather cold and
gas is expensive too.

Do you have any ideas? Anything I could order thru the Internet?

Sincerely,
Keith

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 2:51 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

the_blogologist <nobody@nowheres.com> wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Buy a coolroom and install it in the house and heat it instead of
>> cooling it.
>>
>>> Anything I could order thru the Internet?
>>
>> Yep, a coolroom.
>
> He said CHEAP survival idea to stay warm.

He also asked for a shed that he could erect inside the house.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 3:13 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

I also sit at my desk and type, sometimes at any time of the day or
night, in an older house with bad insulation and cold air convection in
the winter and have no money on a single-parent budget to do any
improvements. What I have is a comforter that I bought at a thrift
store and made into a snug sack:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/1980-01-01/Snug-and-Warm-in-a-Snug-Sack.aspx

Works wonders and is not hard to do. If you are particularly
hypothyroid and/or cold-blooded like I am (guilty on both counts), find
something that when you wrap it around you, you feel the heat radiating
back to you. I actually just have mine mainly held together with safety
pins until I my cracked rib heals and I can lift my sewing machine onto
a table to put in the zipper.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chrismas Trees
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/14ff3a2698c21c95?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 2:34 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 11:37:49 -0500, "Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Vic Smith" <thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:k7m8n31d1pjo8ger2jlgaaljcgvkuu8r1a@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 19:51:22 -0500, "Lou"
>> <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Don K" <dk@dont_bother_me.com> wrote in message
>>>news:5tOdnSUaiPwlS_DanZ2dnUVZ_tuonZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> "Lou" <lpogodajr292185@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:oYWdneHtdqhcN_DanZ2dnUVZ_vumnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> >
>>>> > "clams_casino" <PeterGriffin@DrunkinClam.com> wrote in message
>>>> > news:Fkhbj.24347$Wt7.20806@newsfe14.phx...
>>>>
>>>> >> Artificial trees are made from polyvinyl chloride which lasts for
>>>> >> centuries when discarded into landfills
>>>> >
>>>> > Apparently, aritificial trees average a four to five year useful
>>>> > life...
>>>>
>>>> I wonder where that came from.
>>>
>>>http://www.christianpost.com/article/20071212/30463_Holiday_Dilemma:__Real_vs._Artificial_Christmas_Trees.htm
>>>
>>>> I know 2 other people who have artificial trees. They have both
>>>> had them at least 20 years.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me, as long as you have space to store it properly,
>>>> it should last a very long time.
>>>
>>>Seems like it should, but apparently, for whatever reasons, it does not.
>>>
>> Because there are artificial trees and there are artificial trees.
>> Probably big quality differences.
>> My wife laughed when I told her about reading here suggestions
>> they last 4 to 5 years. Ours is 6 years old and looks like it did the
>> day she bought it. She paid 70 something and that was a half-price
>> deal right after Christmas. I yelled at her. But she's smarter than
>> me, and we saved a bundle, since a good tree around here, which still
>> won't look as good as this, is about 50 bucks. And I no longer have
>> to pick up and primp 50 trees a year for her to look at before she
>> gets the "right" one. I do miss the smell, but pine incense takes
>> care of that to some extent.
>>
>> --Vic
>
>The thing to remember is that the 4 to 5 year figure is an AVERAGE. By
>definition, averages don't apply to individual cases - some people do
>better, others don't do as well.
>
>My main tree is "real". But over the years, I've also had a series of
>"supplemental" artificial trees used to show off a hundred or so hand made
>ornaments that we've accumulated over the last 30 years. Despite being
>carefully stored in the original packaging in a cool dry cellar, they don't
>last forever. I can also imagine that people get rid of artificial trees
>for reasons that have nothing to do with the way they look.
>
Yep, I don't expect it to last forever, but it might last longer than
me. I know it's not a real tree, and I always like real, but I have
been asked "is it real?" The branches have a "random" design,
so it has "character." It's 6 1/2 feet tall without stand.
We use maybe 1/4 of our ornaments on the tree, because the wife has
to buy each member of the family a new one every year. She has to
stop that.

>Where did you get that $70 tree? We've looked at artificial trees every
>year, and haven't seen anything comparable to our real tree for less than a
>few hundred bucks.
>
A place called Mil-Green in Niles, IL. They are a patio
furniture/grill retailer except around Christmas, when they sell fake
trees and other Holiday items. The tree was marked down after
Christmas, 150-160 before Christmas.
I was a little ticked when she told me she bought it, thinking she
bought one of those shiny tin trees with the revolving/projected
red/blue green, which are the only ones I'd seen before. I don't
shop much. But it's nice, and I surprised myself by liking this fake
tree from the get-go. But I'm not a forestry expert anyway.

--Vic

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MLM Dubai...Program Launching on Jan 30.2008
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ffb55d47616c1493?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 3:12 pm
From: fundgold2020

Dear Associates,

MAKE EXTRA CASH ON 2008,BE AMONG THE FIRST ONES TO ENTER PROGRAM FOR
FREE AND BENEFIT FROM THIS...

http://Fundgold2020.dubaimlm.com

DubaiMLM Reward Dollars will be paid as follows:
(50) DubaiMLM Dollars to each NEW MEMBER.
(10) DubaiMLM Dollars to the personal sponsor of each NEW MEMBER.
(1) DubaiMLM Dollar for each NEW MEMBER below your DubaiMLM
Position -- up to FIFTY LEVELS.
Dubai will soon be The Financial Capitol Of The World. Your DubaiMLM
Account can become more important
than your current Bank Account. Whichever country you reside in, your
country's currency only has a
monetary value based upon the fact that others within your country are
willing to accept the same for
tangible products and services. For example:
You could not walk into a Wal-Mart in the Omaha, USA and pay for the
items with a foreign currency such as a Mexican Peso or a Jamaican
Dollar. These currencies and other foreign currencies would
be worthless in such a case. On the other hand, if there was a local
grocery store in the United States which would accept the Mexican
Peso or the Jamaican dollar, these and any other foreign currency
would again have value for the possessor of the same.
DubaiMLM Dollar already has Thousands if not Tens Of Thousands of
outlets willing to accept
DubaiMLM Dollars for either full or partial payment for their products
and / or services.
DubaiMLM also has thousands of outlets willing to accept "MIR Reward
Dollars". In addition to the 50 DubaiMLM
Dollars. DubaiMLM will start each person off with 150 MIR Reward
Dollars in one of our affiliate programs.
The DubaiMLM INTERNATIONAL Directory, similar to the Yellow Pages.
Listings of many small and large businesses who will gladly accept
DubaiMLM Dollars as full or partial payment
for their products and/or services. It will also list Doctors,
Dentist,
Chiropractors, Lawyers, Accountants and many
other professionals who will accept DubaiMLM Dollars. You will find
Landscapers, Pool Maintenance, Florist,
Printers and almost every business service you can think of who will
accept DubaiMLM Dollars...
In addition to all the above, you will have tens of thousands -- even
hundreds of thousands -- of individualswho wish to sell you personal
items whereas you can use DubaiMLM
Dollars. We already have several wholesale suppliers who have
Millions Of Dollars in Inventory which will take DubaiMLM Dollars as
FULL
PAYMENT for such goods.
With TEN MILLION DubaiMLM Members - DubaiMLM will be larger than most
small countries?
DubaiMLM is expecting millions of members with a short period of time.
With The DubaiMLM Reward System,we could have as many as ONE MILLION
Members in just six to twelve months from the launch date.
You instantly receive your self-replicating website to refer other
DubaiMLM Members which allows you to receive DubaiMLM Dollars, Euro
Dollars and US Dollars for your future efforts. Your site will
also show you how many DubaiMLM Dollars you are accumulating for your
referring efforts.
Your DubaiMLM genealogy reports will be available and will show you
how
many members are on each of your FIFTY LEVELS below your position.
Your DubaiMLM back office will be able to receive
DubaiMLM Dollars, Euro Dollars and USA Dollars, based on products sold
within your FIFTY LEVELS.
Just imagine receiving even 2 cents on every transaction to ever take
place within your FIFTY LEVELS below your DubaiMLM Position. How
much would you earn if you received even one penny on every credit
card, bank card or even cash transaction that took place in your city?
DubaiMLM Official Launch Date is January 30, 2008 at which time The
DubaiMLM Member Directory will post in your back office. It will
include every business or
individual who will accept DubaiMLM Dollars or their goods or
services for full or partial payment. Your 150
Additional MIR Reward Dollars, including
your 3 Day/2 Night Vacation Certificate will also be issued at this
time.
Ask yourself a simple question... What business or individual who has a
product or service would not want to expose their product(s) and/or
service(s) to a MILLIONS of potential customers?

Start Referring to Start Receiving.
DubaiMLM Reward Dollars will be paid as follows:
(50) DubaiMLM Dollars to each NEW MEMBER.
(10) DubaiMLM Dollars to the personal referrer of each NEW MEMBER.
(1) DubaiMLM Dollar for each NEW MEMBER below your DubaiMLM
Position -- up to FIFTY LEVELS.

On behalf of all of us at DubaiMLM, we want to welcome you to our New
World Of Marketing.
May 2008 be an exciting and very profitable year for you and your
loved
ones.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: (www.globwholesale.com) Cheap Designer LV Fendi Miumiu Handbag China
Wholesale.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/345e92e27cb8367c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 3:14 pm
From: globwholesale

www.globwholesale.com are one of the largest wholesalers and
dropshippers in china. Our company come into existence on 2000 and
have plenteous experience on this business line. We are specialized
in
cooperate with those merchants who running online auctions such as
ebay, Amazon,Overstock etc or running own web store. We dropship to
worldwide and our experienced stuff will help our merchants build up
their own business quicker and stronger. More infs, pls feel free to
contact sum...@hsshopping.com
1 We (www.globwholesale.com) are a professional wholesaler
for all kinds of handbags, watches, shoes in china.Our company
started
in 2000 and have plenteous experience on this business line. We are
specialized in cooperate with those merchants who running online
auctions such as ebay, Amazon,Overstock etc or running own web store.
www.globwholesale.com

2 our experienced stuff will help our merchants build up their own
business quicker and stronger. Currentlywe offer full range of
desinger handbags including Louis vuitton, christian dior, chanel,
GUCCI,FENDI,Miumiu,coach, hermes, Shoes including Nike, Jordan,
Adidas
as well as Watches such as Rolex, Omega etc

(www.globwholesale.com)
3 We mainly offer dropship service and whoslesale service .Our
dropship service is free ,decrease the cost of products to some
extent .In addition ,you have no need to write so many e-mails to ask
questions about postage etc.Because our website systerm can deal with
order then it will give you a detailed postage ,so you can place the
order directly .

(www.globwholesale.com)
4 If you login our website ,you will feel the difference among so
many wholesalers We supply a more convenious website for our
customers ,you can choose any payment instruction you like ,because
we
owe the most complete kinds which will decrease the cost to some
extent.

(www.globwholesale.com)
2007newstyleshandbag,Replica,Mirrorimage,CHANEL,Replicalouisvuitton
Vuitton,Balenciaga,Chloe,COACH,PRADA,D&G,LoeWe,Belt,Wallet,Wrist
Bag,Hand Bag,Key Bag,Men's wallet,Men's handbag,CHANEL Cambon ,Gucci
Hobos Designer Replica ,Mirror image Louis Vuitton Replica Fendi
Spy ,LV handbags, Chloe Paddington,Fendi Spy Handbag wholesaler,
Handbag wholesale, Handbag dropship, Replica handbag, Replica louis
vuitton, Handbag supplier Replica designer handbags,
Luella,YSL,Chloe
Silverado,ChloePaddington,Mulberry,Balenciaga,leather lugg age,
Cherry Blossom, Satin, Damier Canvas, Epi Leather, Epi Stretch,
Exotic Leathers, Monogram, Multicolore, Monogram Satin, Suhali
Leather, Taiga Leather, Alma Monogram Ellipse Handbag, Monogram
Large
Bucket Bag, mall Bucket Bag , Noe bag, Large Backpack, Mens
Billfold Wallet, Looping Bag, Compact Umbrella, Snap Tresor Wallet,
Papillon, Porte Tresor Wallet, Compact Zippered Wallet, Men's
Billfold
Wallet, Louis Vuitton Monogram Compact Umbrella, Monogram Snap Tresor
Wallet, Louis Vuitton Monogram Scarf, Monogram Pouchette Clefs change
purse key holder, Louis Vuitton Key Chain, Keepall Travel Bag , Key
Holder Billfold Wallet, Mussette, Mussette Salsa, Mussette Tango,
Monogram Vavin GM Bag, Drouot, Long Double Zippered Wallet, SPRING
MURAKAMI POUCHETTE, TRIPLE AAA LEATHER BAG WITH SERIAL NUMBER, SPRING
MURKAMI POUCHETTE WITH BOW, SPRING MURAKAMI ALMA BAG, SPRING MURAKAMI
ELLIPSE BAG, TRIPLE AAA RATED LEATHER BAG, SPRING MURAKAM.

(www.globwholesale.com)
Monogram Canvas,Monogram Multicolor,Cruise Collection
Monogram Perfor,Monogram Verins,Epi Leather,Monogram Denim
Damier Canvas,Monogram Cerises,Monogram Suede,Taiga Leather
Suhali Leather,Tobago,Monogram Mini,Monogram Wallets
Damier Wallets, Wallets, Utah
chanel,chloe,balenciaga,CD,fendi,prada,hermes,D&G，
marc jacobs,kooba,mulberry,jimmy choo,Juicy Couture,THOMASWYLDE,
MIU MIU,YSL,BOTTEGA VENETA all Grade AAA

(www.globwholesale.com)
replica handbag,replica handbag burberry handbag,lv mirror copy
handbag,lv designer handbag; bags; lv replica designer bag; lv super
bag; lv 2007 new spring bag; handbag; fashion bag; bags,lv mirror
copy
handbag; lv designer handbag; bags; lv replica designer bag; louis
vuttion bags,lv 7a mirror copy handbag; lv monogram brown stephen
handbag; replica designer bag; monogram brown bag; lv 2006-2007 new
style handbag; mirror copy handbag; super brand name bag

replica handbag,replica handbag fendi handbag,fendi mirror copy
handbag,fendi designer handbag; bags; fendi replica designer bag;
fendi super bag; fendi 2007 new spring bag; handbag; fashion bag;
bags,fendi 7a mirror copy handbag;Fendi B Leopard Print handbag;
replica designer bag;fendi 2006-2007 new style handbag; mirror copy
handbag; super brand name bag, china wholesaler, china dropshipper,
Chinese wholesale, Chinese dropshipper, made in china, Chinese
supplier, Chinese exporter,buy replica handbag, sell replica handbag

(www.globwholesale.com）
Louis Vuitton Monogram Denim Cabas Cruise Patchwork Speedy 30 Antigua
Damier Azur Saleya PM GOLD DENTELLE CHERRY BLOSSOM MULTICOLORE PORTE
Bowly Alligator
CHANEL COCO CABAS Ligne Cambon PERFORATED JUMBO FLAP CLASSIC CAVIAR
GUCCI large Wave Guccissima Boston Britt Braided Pelham 85th
Anniversary Hobo BELT BAG Beige Brown Top Handle Cruise Bag with
Scarf
Waist Hasler Bag
Christian Dior Gaucho Large Double Saddle Bag Brown Logo Saddle Pouch
GIRLY PINK WHITE BOSTON
Chloe East West Paddington Satchel
FENDI SPY BAG Brown Nappa Leather Zucca Horse Hair Fur Skunk Patent
Leather B Crossword Grande
Miu Miu Coffer Quilted Linen Hobo Matelasse Quilted
Dolce & and Gabbana CELTIC SHOPPING TOTE
Prada Nappa Gaufre Convertible NYLON RUCHED GAUFRE SATCHEL
Coach SCRIBBLE Scribble Diaper Baby Beach
Balenciaga Anthracite GIANT CITY Marine Blue Work Office Bag

(www.globwholesale.com)
LOUIS VUITTON LV GROOM Wallet
Louis Vuitton Cabas Cruise Hangbag
Louis Vuitton Monogram Denim Hangbag
Louis Vuitton Monogram Noe
Louis Vuitton Monogram Abbesses Messenger Bag
Louis Vuitton Monogram Alma
Louis Vuitton Monogram Amazone
Louis Vuitton Monogram Batignolles
Louis Vuitton Monogram Batignolles Horizontal
Louis Vuitton Monogram Batignolles Vertical
Louis Vuitton Monogram Cabas Mezzo
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Drouot
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Lockit
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Lockit Vertical
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Messenger GM Bosphore
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Sac a Dos Bosphore
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Sac Plat
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Spontini
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Stephen
Louis Vuitton Monogram Canvas Tulum PM
Louis Vuitton Monogram Croissant GM
Louis Vuitton Monogram Macha Waltz Oscar
Louis Vuitton Denim Cruise Mini Pleaty Raye
Louis Vuitton monogram leopard Adele
Louis Vuitton monogram leopard Stephen
Louis Vuitton Monogram Trouville
Louis Vuitton Monogram Tikal Pm
Louis Vuitton Monogram Tikal GM
Louis Vuitton Monogram Multicolore Black Aurelia MM
Louis Vuitton Monogram Multicolore Eliza Black
Louis Vuitton Multicolor Alma Black
Louis Vuitton Multicolor Black Papillon 30
Louis Vuitton Multicolor Black Petit Neo
Louis Vuitton Multicolor Black Speedy 30
Louis Vuitton Multicolor Black Trouville
Louis Vuitton Multicolor Lodge GM Black
Louis Vuitton Multicolor Lodge GM White
Louis Vuitton Multicolor White Audra
Louis Vuitton Multicolor White Boulogne
Louis Vuitton Multicolor White Keepall 45
Louis Vuitton Monogram Patchwork Speedy 30 Blue Denim
Louis Vuitton Denim Patchwork Bowly
LOUIS VUITTON Denim Monogram Cabas Raye Handbag
Louis Vuitton Monogram Cabas Piano Bag
Louis Vuitton Antigua Cabas
Louis Vuitton Monogram TULUM PM
Louis Vuitton Denim Alligator Sac Speedy
LOUIS VUITTON Damier Azur Saleya PM
LOUIS VUITTON MONOGRAM GOLD/SILVER DENTELLE Miroir SPEEDY
LOUIS VUITTON DENIM CRUISE CABAS GM BAG
LOUIS VUITTON DENTELLE DENTEL SILVER LACE SPEEDY 30 Spring 07
LOUIS VUITTON CHERRY BLOSSOM Notepad
LOUIS VUITTON MULTICOLORE PORTE TRESOR WALLET
LOUIS VUITTON PERF FUSCHIA COMPACT ZIPPED WALLET
Louis Vuitton Tribute Patchwork Bag
Louis Vuitton Monogram Mini Lin Speedy
Louis Vuitton Miroir Handbag Line
Louis Vuitton Damier Alma

(www.globwholesale.com)
We also have the the swiss rolex watches,Japan rolex watches,Asian
rolex watches,rolex ladies watches,Omega,
cartier,AP,Breitling,RADO,Tissot,Longine,MontBlace,GUCCI,LV,Swatch,Patck_ph-
ilippe,Vacheron_Constantin,IWC,Piaget,brand
name watches including rolex, chanel watches, cartier, oris, bape
watches, ed hardy watches, breitling, louis vuitton watches, gucci
watches etc. All goods are in the top quality and come with original
boxes and retro cards! fake watch, copy watch, replica watch, all
brand watch, china wholesaler, china dropshipper, Chinese wholesaler,
Chinese dropshipper, made in china, Chinese supplier, Chinese
exporter,china supplier,china exporter, buy or sell replica brand
watch,Watches Overstock,watches,Fashion Watch,wholesale,wholesale
watch,watch bulk lots,seiko,designer watches.

(www.globwholesale.com)
In addition, we also have those products:
(1)Belt:GUCCI/ARMANI/Versace/BOSS/dunhill/FENDI/LV/CHANEL/D&G/Others
(2)WIGS:Free Shippment To Worldwide, post by standard flat shipping.
Japanese materials 100%MUCH BETTER QUALITY100%: monofilament. The wig
is adjustable. The inner design allows adjustment according to your
size and preference. All wigs come in bags with tags containing very
simple care instructions.
(3)Bedding:bed skirt/bed-in-a-bag/children's bedding/sheet
(4)Wedding
(5)shoes:Nike Air Jordan/Nike Shox/NIKE SLAT/Nike running shoes/Nike
Air RIFT/Nike Basketball shoes/Nike Air Max/Nike dunksb/Nike Air
Force
One
Adidas Shoes/Adidas Classic running shoes/Adidas Basketball shoes/
Adidas Classic/Adidas Superstar 35 Anniversary/Adidas Superstar
Other Shoes/GUCCI/LV/CHANEL/D&G/DIOR/PRADA/Versace
Especially the UGG shoes
(6)Toys and Hobbies:helicopter
(7)christmas gift

(www.globwholesale.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Making Millionaires Online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/30438e4f04cec108?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 3:22 pm
From: joyangel123

Your search HAS ENDED NOW...Get ready to start earning a full time
income online working just part time from your computer.
http://www.multimillionaireslife.com/makingit.php?a=joyangel1
Start making $1,000+ per day working just a few hours a week.
http://www.joyangel123.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Costco California HMO Delta dental insurance?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/26a9bf334fed72e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 28 2007 3:27 pm
From: " Frank"

Anyone enrolled in this plan and care to comment? Are the Dentists on the
selected list any good?

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13 new messages in 7 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Wonderful!!!!good news!!! newest nike shoes,clothing, mobile phones at www.
fashion-sky.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dcb69aacb041ebb0?hl=en
* Hot Sell Newstyle And Fashion Cloth,Children Shoes,Womenswear ,Mobile phones
at www.fashion-sky.com - 4 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5d1250b39c841a12?hl=en
* Please help - I need to get my credit card debt under control - 3 messages,
3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/072147bbeeb4a6a6?hl=en
* :) Happy New Year :) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c0c82789ab0b8b2c?hl=en
* Did hot air popcorn machines go extinct? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1cd18f9995361a81?hl=en
* Panasonic KX-6051B - base speaker noise - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86fabb358c5ff016?hl=en
* Event Cleaner - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee17b1c0d18240b0?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wonderful!!!!good news!!! newest nike shoes,clothing, mobile phones at

www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/dcb69aacb041ebb0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 27 2007 8:22 pm
From: fashion-sky.001@hotmail.com

Dear my friend
It is our pleasure to meet you here.
we are wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons in Fujian of China.
our website: http://www.fashion-sky.com
We are professional and honest wholesaler of all kinds of brand
sneaks and apparel.the products
our company supply are as follows:
1).Nike Jordans
Jordan 1 jordan 1.5 jordan 2 jordan 3 jordan 3.5 jordan 4 jordan 5
jordan 5.5 jordan 6 jordan 6.5 jordan 7 jordan 8 jordan 9 jordan 9.5
jordan 10 jordan 11 jordan 12 jordan 13 jordan 13.5 jordan 14 jordan
15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
jordan 21 jordan 21.5 jordan 22 jordan King jordan Dub Zero Jordan 23
Jordan 7.5
2).Air Force One Air Force one (low) Air Force one (High) Air Force
one (Mid) Air Force one (clear) Air Force One 25 year
3).SHOX Shox R3 Shox R4 Shox R5 Shox TL1 Shox TL2 Shox TL3 Shox NZ
Shox OZ Shox Turbo Show GO Shox CL Shox Coqnescenti Shox Energia Shox
Explodine Shox Monster Shox Rhythmic Shox Warrior
4).Bape Shoes Bape Bape (transparent)
5).Air max AirMax 90 AirMax 95 AirMax 97 AirMax 2003 AirMax 2004
AirMax 2005 Air Max 2006 AirMax 180 AirMax LTD AirMax TN AirMax solas
AirMax 87 AirMax Rift
6).Puma Puma Rpt2 Puma SK6 Puma Jayfi Puma Cir Puma Speed Puma Repli
Puma Future Cat Puma Mostro Puma Lifestyle
7).Dunk SB Dunk High Dunk Low
8).Timberland Timberland High Timberland Low
9).Adidas Adidas 35 Adicolor Country city sense Adidas NBA
11).Prada & Gucci Prada Gucci
12).Footballer Shoes Footballer
13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
17).James shoes
18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile(apple iphones,apple
iphones,apple iphones,apple iphones) 3).Nokia Mobile(Nokia N95,Nokia
N95 Nokia N95 Nokia N95 Nokia N93,Nokia N70,Nokia N92,Nokia 8800)
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
31