Frugal Living: Dec 26, 2007

Wednesday, December 26, 2007

24 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free 20 oz Coke
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/002dc75a28e43212?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 11:06 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

Free 20 oz Coke
http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=367

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home renovation blog
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2fdf66d194246e88?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 11:19 am
From: George

clams_casino wrote:
> BeneathTheStairs@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Please provide comments on what info you would like.
>>
>>
>
>
> I would like to see no more blog spam.

Same for me..

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yet another Best Buy consumer horror story -- woman tasered by cop.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8fc4714b1a22ea0e?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 12:59 pm
From: "Richard"

The police have a Duty to protect the rights of the citizen and not to act
as an agent of a mall or place of business. This police officer did not use
his authroity to protect the rights of anyone but exercised his discression
to use a device that in a way that was not intended by government. Only when
someones life or limb is in danger should this device be used, and even then
a less intrussive option should be used if possible.

Richard

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 1:13 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Richard <rfeirste@nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> The police have a Duty to protect the rights of the citizen and not to act as an agent of a mall or place of business.

Wrong when theft is a real possibility.

> This police officer did not use his authroity to protect the rights of anyone

Wrong when theft was a real possibility.

> but exercised his discression to use a device that in a way that was not intended by government.

Wrong again. Tasers were issued so they could be used instead of guns
when they are a more appropriate way to deal with a member of the public.

> Only when someones life or limb is in danger should this device be used,

You get no say what so ever on that or anything else at all, ever.

> and even then a less intrussive option should be used if possible.

There is no legal requirement to call up more goons
to deal with that sort of outrageous behaviour.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 5:27 pm
From: JL

Richard wrote:
> The police have a Duty to protect the rights of the citizen and not to act
> as an agent of a mall or place of business. This police officer did not use
> his authroity to protect the rights of anyone but exercised his discression
> to use a device that in a way that was not intended by government. Only when
> someones life or limb is in danger should this device be used, and even then
> a less intrussive option should be used if possible.
>
> Richard
>
>

It's easy to sit around after the fact and deem actions to be excessive.
One of my friends was charged with assault after he kicked someone in
the chest. He was walking down the street and a bum came running at him
with a hypodermic needle (the guy was a deranged junkie who was maybe
infected with AIDS/HIV). So my friend kicked the guy in the chest as he
got near him -- crushing the guy's ribcage. My friend was charged with
assault (later dropped to a misdemeanor). My friend might have saved
himself from getting AIDS.

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TOPIC: Discount UGG Boot,Buy Ugg Online at WWW. nikes4wholesale. com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b2b613ed84ab010e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 1:48 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buying a house with parents
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cf080f57347816ab?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 3:24 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

In California, what is listed as a duplex is a two-family building, each
of which has a separate title. Sort of like a two-unit set of
townhouses, but with no homeowner's association.

Shawn Hirn wrote:
>> If you are going to get a duplex, then you should buy one unit and your
>> parents the other unit, providing that you are talking about a true
>> duplex that is legally considered two single-family homes and not one
>> building set up with flats that is considered a two-family occupancy
>> building.
>
> I don't think that's an option with a duplex. You are referring to a
> condo, as was pointed out by someone else.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 3:27 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Janie wrote:
> with duplexes that were originally built as company houses. In our area,
> condos tend to be on common ground with some type of housing association
> having control over the grounds and exterior of the structures.

My realtor here in California said that legal definition of a
condominium is that it is the ownership of a single-family living unit
in a multiple-family structure that did not include your own
personally-owned piece of ground and that had common areas that were
managed by a homeowner's association, the legal definition of a
townhouse is that it is ownership of a single-family living unit in a
multiple-family structure that did include your own personally-owned
piece of ground and that had common areas that were managed by a
homeowner's association, and if there was no homeowner's association, it
could be called a duplex, a four-plex, zero-lot-line housing, etc.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 3:28 pm
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TOPIC: Free Kids DVD from Fisher-Price! No Shipping!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e1615a46e410236c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 3:42 pm
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 3:53 pm
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

FreebiesPl.us wrote:
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> http://www.freebiespl.us/?p=371
>
> You Better Hurry! It's a great way for your kids to learn why not to get suckered into anything FREE on the internet - especially from an ongoing, scum-of-the-earth spammer like me.

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TOPIC: Earn Money Working From Home
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4d557fac3281cdf8?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: UN official calls biofuel schemes a "crime against humanity! Food riots
around the world! Bush bill wil starve the world!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d74a7292558d763e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 5:12 pm
From: "Support our troups, O5 and below. SeaWoe"

On Dec 25, 9:47 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> In <1117092a-19fa-41e6-95d4-36c0a8159...@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
> calderh...@yahoo.com wrote in part in a diatribe against biofuels:
>
> >The cost of imported food for the world's poorest countries has risen
> >by 25 per cent this year to about $US107 billion the highest on
> >record.
>
> Cost in US dollars up 25%? And how many percent did the euro gain
> against the US dollar in that time period? How many percent did the
> Canadian dollar gain with respect to the US dollar in this time period?
> How about the Japanese yen and gold?
>
> It appears to me we have a case on the US dollar!
>
> One big cause is USA's huge trade deficit, with USA pumping out dollars
> abroad. About 35% of USA's trade deficit is in importing oil! We ain't
> yet cutting back much in consumption when the price makes the pump price
> of gasoline $3.10 a gallon!
>
> Secondary to that is USA government spending too much and doing deficit
> spending, with pork of all kinds including those "earmarks" that upticked
> bigtime since Bush II took office. Not that I find the current crowd of
> Democrats barely having a majority of Congress making any improvement
> here, despite Clinton having the only presidential term netting lack of a
> deficit in the most-coinciding 4 fiscal year period since Eisenhower!
>
> - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

There are two way to make fuel from biomass.
1) use food as base
2) use waste plant material as base.

Bush goes for the first, due to the vast nimner4 of votes in farm
states (and other reasons I won't mention, but you muight guess.)

Thus, the OP may be correct.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Please help - I need to get my credit card debt under control
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/072147bbeeb4a6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 6:15 pm
From: rochester@myaddress.rr.com

Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit
card debt.

Sparing the details, the company I worked for went under in 2002, I
worked on my own and made little money for three years, and the job I
got after that, though promsing, involves a long ramp-up curve; my
best earnings are ahead of me.

Right now, here are my circumstances:

- Three bank credit cards with a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
and monthly payments of about $2,200
- A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
in full every month
- A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
- House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
- car loan of $450 a month

The interest rates on my cards are all high - basically 19-29%.

My wife and I together earn about $10k a month, and I expect this
amount will begin to increase late to mid 2008. But I'm just dying
under the weight of these cards. I applied to Cap One earlier this
month for a balance transfer on one of my cards, hoping to cut the
interest rate, but I was turned down because of a combination of my
income and the fact that my debt-carrying cards are close to maxed.

What are some good ways that I can cut these monthly payments? Or
more accurately, maintain the monthly payments but have more money go
to pay down the balance and less money go to interest? My wife and I
both have FICO scores in the 700-740 range - not bluest of blue chip
for credit, but still very good.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:23 pm
From: Sev

On Dec 26, 9:15�pm, roches...@myaddress.rr.com wrote:
> Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit
> card debt.
>
> Sparing the details, the company I worked for went under in 2002, I
> worked on my own and made little money for three years, and the job I
> got after that, though promsing, involves a long ramp-up curve; my
> best earnings are ahead of me.
>
> Right now, here are my circumstances:
>
> - Three bank credit cards with a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
> and monthly payments of about $2,200
> - A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
> in full every month
> - A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
> - House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
> 18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
> - car loan of $450 a month
>
> The interest rates on my cards are all high - basically 19-29%.
>
> My wife and I together earn about $10k a month, and I expect this
> amount will begin to increase late to mid 2008. �But I'm just dying
> under the weight of these cards. �I applied to Cap One earlier this
> month for a balance transfer on one of my cards, hoping to cut the
> interest rate, but I was turned down because of a combination of my
> income and the fact that my debt-carrying cards are close to maxed.
>
> What are some good ways that I can cut these monthly payments? �Or
> more accurately, maintain the monthly payments but have more money go
> to pay down the balance and less money go to interest? �My wife and I
> both have FICO scores in the 700-740 range - not bluest of blue chip
> for credit, but still very good.

You applied one place and were turned down? Try a few more- no
reason to pay those interest rates. Though you are pretty maxed out,
and credit is getting tighter, you still ought to find something
better.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:46 pm
From: Gordon

rochester@myaddress.rr.com wrote in
news:9326n3tt9n6ii0h4jjrf9rm4nvu46h631s@4ax.com:

> Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit
> card debt.
>
> Sparing the details, the company I worked for went under in 2002, I
> worked on my own and made little money for three years, and the job I
> got after that, though promsing, involves a long ramp-up curve; my
> best earnings are ahead of me.
>
> Right now, here are my circumstances:
>
> - Three bank credit cards with a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
> and monthly payments of about $2,200
> - A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
> in full every month
> - A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
> - House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
> 18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
> - car loan of $450 a month
>
> The interest rates on my cards are all high - basically 19-29%.
>
> My wife and I together earn about $10k a month, and I expect this
> amount will begin to increase late to mid 2008. But I'm just dying
> under the weight of these cards. I applied to Cap One earlier this
> month for a balance transfer on one of my cards, hoping to cut the
> interest rate, but I was turned down because of a combination of my
> income and the fact that my debt-carrying cards are close to maxed.
>
> What are some good ways that I can cut these monthly payments? Or
> more accurately, maintain the monthly payments but have more money go
> to pay down the balance and less money go to interest? My wife and I
> both have FICO scores in the 700-740 range - not bluest of blue chip
> for credit, but still very good.

See if you can get a debt consolidation loan from your bank. Then
arange to have the monthly payment directly deducted from your
bank account.

What are you spending the 10K per month on? I would love to be
making that much. To pay off your credit cards you should be
makeing more (much more) than the minimum monthly payment.
Is there any way you can free up about $1000.00 more per month
and apply it to your debt?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 8:05 pm
From: "John Weiss"

<rochester@myaddress.rr.com> wrote...
> Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit
> card debt.
>
> - Three bank credit cards with a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
> and monthly payments of about $2,200
> - A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
> in full every month
> - A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
> - House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
> 18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
> - car loan of $450 a month
>
> The interest rates on my cards are all high - basically 19-29%.
>
> My wife and I together earn about $10k a month, and I expect this
> amount will begin to increase late to mid 2008. But I'm just dying
> under the weight of these cards. I applied to Cap One earlier this
> month for a balance transfer on one of my cards, hoping to cut the
> interest rate, but I was turned down because of a combination of my
> income and the fact that my debt-carrying cards are close to maxed.
>
> What are some good ways that I can cut these monthly payments? Or
> more accurately, maintain the monthly payments but have more money go
> to pay down the balance and less money go to interest? My wife and I
> both have FICO scores in the 700-740 range - not bluest of blue chip
> for credit, but still very good.

1. Cut up the last credit card, cancel the account, and stop using credit
cards until you're under control.

2. Apply to other places for balance transfers/loan consolidation at less than
the current interest. With 700+ FICO scores, you should be able to find 12-15%
or less!

3. Pick the highest interest card of the 3 and put ALL your disposable income
into paying it off. When that's done, go to the next one, then the 3rd...

4. Sell the car and get a cheapo. Put the $450/mo into paying off the credit
cards.

5. Get help from a credit counseling agency to put together a budget, and stick
to it! Where's the rest of that $10K/month going?!?

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 8:19 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <Xns9A12C91981A27greederxprtnet@199.45.49.11>,
Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com> wrote:
>rochester@myaddress.rr.com wrote in
>news:9326n3tt9n6ii0h4jjrf9rm4nvu46h631s@4ax.com:

>> Due to circumstances of my own doing, I have a bad problem with credit
>> card debt.
[ ... ]
>> Right now, here are my circumstances:

>> - Three bank credit cards with a total indebtedness of roughly $70k,
>> and monthly payments of about $2,200
>> - A fourth bank card on which I make all of my purchases and pay off
>> in full every month
>> - A 30k personal loan from Capital One with a $500 monthly payment
>> - House fully mortgaged, no equity to tap, interest rate about 6.5%,
>> 18 years left on a 20-year mortgage
>> - car loan of $450 a month
[ ... ]

>What are you spending the 10K per month on? I would love to be
>making that much. To pay off your credit cards you should be
>makeing more (much more) than the minimum monthly payment.

Based upon his numbers above, $3150 plus a house payment are going
to debt service. If the $10K is gross income, they'll be lucky to
have $6500 left after taxes. Depending upon what their house payment
is, there may not be much left.

>Is there any way you can free up about $1000.00 more per month
>and apply it to your debt?

They could free up $450 by selling the new car and buying an older
used one. Any left over from selling the car can go to the highest
rate debt or be held as a reserve.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net

http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

Yoko Onos' former driver tried to extort $2M from her, threating to
"release embarassing recordings...". What, he has a copy of her album?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Fashion Shoes & Clothing & Mobile Phones & Handbags Wholesale on

www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56a08b611ffff229?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:15 pm
From: fashion-sky.001@hotmail.com

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15 jordan 16 jordan 17 jordan 18 jordan 18.5 jordan 19 jordan 20
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13).Locaste
14).converse & Reebok converse Reebok
15).D&G shoes
16).Dsquared2 shoes
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18).Nike King
9).Children shoes Jordan Shox
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31

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sell Sports Shoes,Fashion Cloth,Mobile Phone,Children Shoes,Menswear,
Casual Jean,Children Shoes www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e38c8433dd1ca3de?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:28 pm
From: fashion-sky.002@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:29 pm
From: fashion-sky.002@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:30 pm
From: fashion-sky.002@hotmail.com

Clothing Size:
S M L XL XXL XXXL XXXXL XXXXXL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Welcome to my webside that provides help in English Study.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a310386432842fbd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:39 pm
From: nonamehuang@yahoo.com.cn

The address is http://englearn.zhan.cn.yahoo.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Attitude Line's Product Warranty--NONE AT ALL!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b34458a4da7274e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 10:23 pm
From: traveler

Just wanted to warn any/all folks interested folks:

DON'T buy from Attitude Online--if you're expecting a product warranty
and that their products actually work. I tried two of them, and found
them to have no effect on my skin. I urge all of you to be very
careful if you're thinking of buying from them. I tried to resolve
the problem with them, and they...being foreign nationals, didn't want
to refund my money for the ineffective products that I bought from
them.

Here is what I bought from them, and their website:

1. Texured Eye Cream
2. Lift Up Eye Gel

www.attitudeline.com

I suggest you NOT buy any skincare products from them (via kiosk or at
their website) unless they back the purchase up with a money back
guarantee (which they probably won't).

Va Pour Sa!

Doug Starfield

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25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M`I 5`Persecu tion - C omparing th e M I5 Pers ecution with G erman Fi
nal Solutio n
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3bddd6c5e1a6a5f6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 12:37 am
From: veimv@bigfoot.com

MI5 Persecution Update: Friday 16 April,. 1999

If You Intend To Reply, Please Read. This
Please.... keep your response. to one page!. Faxes over a page or two will
be deleted without. being read.

BBC newscaster Nicholas Witchell cant. stop himself laughing

During. 1990-91 there were very many instances of "interactive
television" where newscasters and other TV presenters saw. on a screen
before them what was happening in my home, and reacted, frequently. by
laughing at me. During this period. I unfortunately did not record these
programmes.. For the last year or two, I have been recording everything I
watch, and there has been a. drastic decrease in such incidents.

However, on occasion,. television presenters do still engage in
"interactive watching" and react. to what they see. This has been evident
with Jon Snow of Channel Four News recently. - a particularly interesting
case, since. it has been established that he cannot be corrupted by money
(it is. well-documented that MI5 offered him a tax-free salary and he
turned them down). I wonder what device MI5 are using to encourage. him to
do the. "interactive watching"?

On Saturday 10 April 1999 at. 7pm, Nicholas Witchell on BBC2 News reacted
when he saw that I was. watching the programme, and I have his reactions
stored safely on videotape. I have watched this tape several times and. I
am entirely confident that my evaluation of his. reactions is correct. For
several minutes his upper lip quivered in. mirth as he attempted to keep a
straight. face. Then finally his self-control evaporated through the excuse
of a. weak joke and his face collapsed into a grin.

The strange thing is that. I dont know why he was laughing at me, what I
had done recently to "deserve" to be laughed. at. The MI5 persecutors
usually manage to invent some justification as to why people should. laugh
at and/or abuse me ("hes an X", "it was so funny" etc), so Mr. Witchell
could have been laughing for any number of reasons.. Perhaps he found the
views I have been expressing in. these articles amusing? I suppose if youre
paid enough money and ordered to laugh then even the most. innocuous thing
becomes. funny.

Jon. Snow of Channel Four News cant stop himself smirking, either.

On 12. February 1999 I was watching Channel Four News presented by Jon
Snow. As usual,. I was recording the programme, so that if anything out of
the ordinary happened, Id be able to go. back and watch it again.

Now, Jon Snow, by his. own claim, is uncorruptible. He says he turned down
an offer of a substantial tax-free salary from MI5 - they. wanted to make
him their mouthpiece,. and he told them where to get off.

So you will be most surprised to learn that Jon Snow. "interactively
watched". me that evening, and on many other evenings. Approximately
fifteen minutes. into the programme, he announced that the US President
would be making a live appearance. at about 7.30pm; I looked at the clock
on the mantelpiece; and Snow saw me looking at the clock, and. visibly
tried. to suppress a smirk.

Uncorruptible,. are you, Mister Snow? If not money, then why are you
watching me, Mister Snow? Are they forcing you to. watch me? Cant you turn
the monitor off, Mister. Snow?

Keith Hill MP (Labour -. Streatham), my elected representative, as ever
refuses to. help.

Comparing the MI5. Persecution with German "Final Solution"

It might seem offensive to compare the mass. murder of millions of
civilians in wartime with the peacetime persecution of. merely one
person. Yet the comparison has. been coursing through my mind for several
years now, because the brutality of. German intent to "sub-humans" is very
much comparable to the brutality of British intent. to someone they
vituperate and term "not up to. British standards". The methods may differ,
but the. persecutors mindset is the same.

The Germans first targeted the mentally disabled,. too

During WW2 millions of. ethnic Russians, Poles, Jews, mentally ill, gypsies
and other minorities were rounded. up and murdered in purpose-built camps
by the. German regime, in the name of "racial superiority". Fifty years on,
the British Secret. Police, MI5, instituted a campaign of mass
hysteria; but. in their cowardice, limited their activities to one single
victim.

It is instructive to note that. the early German "cleansing" effort was
directed primarily. not at Jews, but at the mentally ill. The Nazis set up
the T4 project in the thirties to "cleanse" away 70,000 mentally. disabled
people, including schizophrenics. and epileptics. After WW2 the Jews with
their media influence used the reaction. from the holocaust to roll back
anti-semitism in the Western countries; however, the. mentally ill are
today still a persecuted group in the modern Western world as. they were
under the Nazis (the. current Jewish home secretary in the UK intends to
bring in laws. for incarceration without any criminal charge for some
mentally ill people - he protects. his own minority, but does nothing for
the other minorities in todays society), and. this continuing bias forms a
central cause. for the current acts of persecution in the UK.

Widespread knowledge of what is happening to the "un-British". minority

In both the German persecution of the thirties and early. forties, and the
current. British persecution, many, many people are well aware of whats
happening.. There is widespread complicity through inaction of
populace;. and in a substantial proportion of the mainstread population,
the persecution. had/has widespread enthusiastic support; yet in both the
German case in the 1940s and the. British today, the existence of
persecution is a mass secret which must be never admitted out loud. In. the
recent. Lawrence case this "secret bigotry" has been termed
"institutionalised racism", and that is a. very good word for what the
British. are doing today The persecutory attitudes and omerta regarding
them are so deeply ingrained in the national. psyche that they define the
national. mood

During WW2 many Germans knew. minorities were disappearing, and through
inaction. quietly condoned their government's mass murder of
"un-German" minorities and inferior. "foreigners"; and in the 1990s,
similarly, many English people know. what the MI5 British Secret Police
have been doing, and not only. condone it, but actively take part, because
of xenophobia against the "un-British" unit minority. that is the target of
"British" actions. This attitude by the British persecutors has been. made
explicit through the words "he's not up to British standards";. the British
seem. to have found their very own "untermenschen" to victimise.

Why these obsessive "holy. wars" happen

This type of aggression. occurs when the majority is threatened or
humiliated in some way, economically, militarily or culturally.. In pre-WW2
Germany the. threat was primarily economic and military, following
Germany's humiliating defeat in the first world. war and the reparations it
was forced to pay. In modern Britain, one. might guess that the majority
English who are behind the persecution feel pressured by. the swiftly
diminishing status of Britain in the. world, and the rapidly increasing
coloured colonisation of. their country, which in time will see the ethnic
English a minority in their own land,. and their more antisocial elements,
unable to reply. to the obvious threat, instead project their aggression
onto another,. weaker, unit minority

In both cases there is a whiff of "holy war" or irrational. obsession with
the persecution. Certainly the German. behaviour fifty years ago bordered
on the not-quite-sane, and. the current British behaviour towards their
chosen victim is strongly tinged with. a leave-taking of reason. And the
choices open to the victims are the same, since MI5 will. never allow me to
escape them, "if he tries to run away we'll find him",. just like the
commandant. of Auschwitz telling the new arrivals, "the only escape is
through the. chimney".

The Victim Will Destroy Us if We Dont Destroy. Him First

The persecutors propaganda is. the same. Fifty years ago the Germans said,
"if we don't do it to the Jews then the Jews will do it to. us"; and MI5's
propaganda in the early nineties concentrated on their victim as. a
"monster" aesome "untermenschen". minority.

"We are decent. fellows" say the Brutal Persecutors

During. the course of researching this article I read part of the very
interesting book, "Hitler -. A Study in Tyranny", by Alan Bullock. This
volume contains a quote from. Himmler on the "Final Solution";

"Most of you know what it means when a hundred. corpses are lying side by
side, or five hundred or one thousand. To have. stuck it out, and at the
same time .... to have remained decent fellows,. that is what has made us
hard. This is a page of glory. in our history which has never been written
and is never. to be written."

In the MI5 persecution, too, there is a thread. of deliberate brutality to
the sick and vulnerable, while the. persecutors maintain that "we are
decent. fellows". There is almost a conscious schizophrenia in the
self-attitudes of. the Security Service operatives and those in the public
who they employ. against me, which reflects the contradiction evident in
the German. attitude above. On the one hand, they stoop to the lowest and
most base behaviour; yet at the same time, the MI5 operatives. tell
themselves that. since they are civilised British people, then surely they
must. by definition be "decent fellows". Any indecency is made the fault of
the victim;. "hes making us persecute him, so we need feel no guilt".

Yet the conduct is atypical of the. way these peoples see their normal
modes of behaviour. Befslaughter was. not typical of normal German
behaviour up to that point.. Similarly, the current MI5 abuse goes against
the grain of British self-image as being "reserved". and "decent", since
they are using. terms of abuse which are common among blacks and other
supposedly less-developed races, but not among. the English.

Conclusion

The. ultimate aim of both persecutions is the humiliation and physical
extinction of. the persecuted group. The Germans did this in a very direct
way; the. British Secret Police MI5 are acting indirectly and relying on
self-extinction of. their target, because in peacetime and in the current
somewhat false climate of "political correctness" more direct methods. are
impossible. If MI5 undertook more direct action. the mass "omerta" would be
broken.

I have written. this article with sincerity to show how a historically
recent persecution in another country parallels. what is being done in this
country today. In. both cases, the evil-doers are of their countries
establishments, and rely on widespread tacit support to maintain. the
persecution and omerta around it. While the. holocaust was undoubtedly the
greater evil, it is. important to be aware of the fact that had the Germans
not been defeated fifty years. ago, their plans would have gone through to
total completion.. In Britain today no force threatens the "permanent
government" of which. the Security Service forms a part; and it looks very
unlikely that the wrongs. perpetrated by the MI5 secret police will ever be
revealed. to public view, and the British secret state brought to justice
for. its evil actions.

1026

==============================================================================
TOPIC: M-I'5-Persecu tion - MI 5 Was te Taxpayer Milli ons on Pointless Hate-
Campaign
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f2af6d00d4ec3e3d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 12:50 am
From: mfvfi@bigfoot.com

MI5 Persecution Update: Friday 30 April,. 1999

If You Intend To Reply,. Please Read This
Please.... keep your response to one page!. Faxes over a page. or two will
be deleted without. being read.

Somewhere between 0 and. 100%

The last few days. there have been no clear recordable instances of
abuse. However, while travelling on the Underground,. while walking around
near my home and going to friends homes, I am constantly. troubled by
thoughts that those people over there might be. about to get at me; that
the couple sitting in the. opposite seats laughing are in fact laughing at
me; et. cetera, et cetera.

A comment by a scientist to the. BSE inquiry sticks in my mind. He
described the possible scale. of the epidemic as "between 0% and 100%". It
might. not be happening, it might not happen at all, to any discernable
degree.... or it might be total. Without clear recording, which. seems to
have become impossible. the last couple of weeks, there is no way of
knowing whether the harassment really. is continuing, whether we have
entered a temporary hiatus, or whether. perhaps it has perhaps stopped for
now.

But for the time being I think there arent any reasons to. dicontinue these
faxes. I only re-started. them six weeks ago in response to a resumption of
MI5 harassment; and I. think I will need to be more convinced of absence of
persecution before I. discontinue my complaints.

The Newscasters. are still watching

In the last few weeks. there have been at least a couple of fairly overt
instances of "interactive watching" by newscasters. I reported this in. a
previous "MI5 Persecution. Update".

These instances are really. very rare compared to 1990-91, when there were
many dozens of such occurrences.. Undoubtedly the reduction is due to my
practice of videotaping everything. I see. Recently I had the opportunity
of showing this years "happenings". (Jon Snow/Nicholas Witchell) to my
psychiatrist, and he agreed that in both cases. the newscasters were
expressing merriment without. visible cause, and that objectively it might
be possible for my claims to be true - although. of course other people
reported similar thoughts to him, and this. thinking is usually a symptom
of. illness.

Read About the MI5 Persecution. on the World Wide Web

The March 1998 issue (number 42). of .net Magazine reviews the website
describing it as an "excellent site".. Since August 11, 1996 over 50,000
people have. browsed this website.

You are encouraged to read. the web pages which include

a FAQ (frequently asked questions) section outlining the nature of. the
persecutors,. their methods of harassment through the media, people at work
and among. the general public

an evidence section, which carries audio and video clips of. media and
workplace harassment, rated according to how directly I think they refer to. me

objective descriptions of the state. security agencies involved

scanned texts. of the complaints I have made to media and state security
agencies. involved

posts which have been made to netnews over the last four years. on this topic

Keith Hill MP (Labour - Streatham), my. elected representative, as ever
refuses to. help.

MI5 Waste Taxpayer Millions on. Pointless Hate-Campaign

Recently I was talking to an independent observer about. the nature and
purpose of the perceived campaign of persecution. against me. The person I
spoke to,. a highly intelligent man, said he was struck by the utter
pointlessness of the perceived campaign. against me. He also said that, if
my theories were in fact true, many people would have to be. involved, in
the. surveillance itself, and in the technical side of the delivery of
information from my home to TV. studios for example, if the "interactive
watching" were. happening as described. He voiced these thoughts without
any prompting from me;. but both I and other observers had arrived at
pretty much the same. conclusions, some years ago.

I saw a team of four men at. Toronto Airport in 1993

To carry out the surveillance alone, full-time,. would employ four or five
men, or their equivalent in terms of man-hours.. Each man would "work" an
eight-hour shift, so you would need at least three. men doing the
surveillance, plus. a connecting link / manager. An indicator that this
estimate is correct arrived in 1993, when I was. accosted by one of a group
of four men at Toronto Airport; he said, laughing, "if he tries. to run
away well find him". Plainly these were the men who had been involved. in
the intrusive surveillance of me for the preceding three. years.

On other occasions,. I have seen the same man on two or three occasions. On
one such occasion, at. Ottawas Civic Hospital in November 1996; he gave his
name to the doctor as. "Alan Holdsworth" or some such; my hearing is not
very good sometimes and I am not sure of the surname, although I am. sure
"Alan" was his first name. I saw exactly the. same man again in Ottawa, at
the airport, in July 1998.. Obviously, other people must be "working" with
this person; he would not. be the sole agent employed in this case.

Usenet readers views on the Cost to MI5 of. Running the Campaign

Here's what a couple of other. people on internet newsgroups / Usenet
(uk.misc) had to say regarding the cost of running such an. operation...

PO: >Have some sense, grow up and smell reality. What you. are talking about
PO: >would take loads of planning, tens of thousands of. pounds and lots of
PO: >people involved in the planning, execution and. maintenance of it. You
PO: >must have a very high. opinion of yourself to think you are worth it.

and......

PM: >But why? And why you? Do you realize how much it would cost to. keep
PM: >one person under. continuous surveillance for five years? Think about
PM: >all the man/hours. Say they _just_ allocated a two man team and. a
PM: >supervisor. OK., Supervisor's salary, say,. #30,000 a year. Two men,
PM: >#20,000 a year each. But they'd need to work in shifts --. so it would
PM: >be six men at #20,000 (which with on-costs would work. out at more
like
PM: >#30,000 to. the employer.)
PM:. >
PM: >So, we're talking #30,000. x 6. #180,000. plus say, #40,000 for the
PM: >supervisor.. #220,000. Then you've got the hardware involved. And
PM: >any transcription that. needs doing. You don't think the 'Big Boss'
PM: >would listen to hours and. hours of tapes, do you.
PM:. >
PM: >So, all in all, you couldn't actually do the. job for much less than
PM: >a quarter. million a year. Over five years. What are you doing that makes
PM: >it worth the while of the state to. spend over one and a quarter million
PM:. >on you?

Those are. pretty much the sort of calculations that went through my head
once I. stopped to consider what it must be costing them to run this
operation. At the very. least, a quarter million a year - and probably much
more, given the. intrusive and human-resource-intensive methods
employed. Times nine years. Equals well over. two million pounds - and
probably much, much. more.

Its wasteful for someone. with my skills to be unemployed

The wastefulness of the MI5 campaign. against me is not just that of futile
expenditure on their side. It is also extremely wasteful for someone. with
my talents to be unemployed and on a disability pension. I. am highly
qualified in numerate disciplines, yet. am unable to work, specifically
because of the MI5 hate-campaign against me. It is. a terrible waste of
resources for. a supposedly efficient economy like that of the UK to be
squandering the talents of a skilled and. capable worker.

I made every effort. to remain in employment for as long as I could, but
ultimately I. was defeated by MI5s employment of massive resources
specifically. targeted on my workplaces with the sole aim of seeing me
evicted from those workplaces. You. might expect this sort of behaviour
from the Stasi or. some other secret police force in a communist country
where labour is cheap, and the governments aim on. seeing its citizens
confined; but. for a supposedly free and efficient economy like Britains,
the wastefulness resulting both directly and indirectly from. the Security
Services activities is simply criminal,. and should never be allowed.

The international dimension means the costs. are multiplied many times
overoer had any sense, then they have surely. taken leave of them over the
last. nine years.

Four years of persecution in. Canada

The persecution re-started within less. than five minutes of my arrival in
Canada, as. documented above, and in the "frequently asked
questions" article on the website. The words, "if he tries to. run away
well find him" spoken by one. of the harassers at Toronto Airport are now
imprinted on my. mind.

A year. later I emigrated to Canada, intending to find a job and settle
there, hoping. that MI5s interest in me might dim with time. I did manage
to find work. there, but my hopes of avoiding Security Service interest
were ground into dust.. As detailed above, I saw the same man in November
1996 and July 1998,. both times in Ottawa. Apart from these encounters,
there were numerous incidents between 1994. and 1998 of harassment, of an
identical nature and. in most cases using identical words to what had
occurred in the UK. It. became quite clear to me that the permanent
surveillance and harassment operation. which MI5 had subjected me to in
England was. being continued.

For a team of four or. five men to be employed overseas must cost a lot
more than if they operate in their home country.. And for MI5 to continue
the operation. for a period of over four years, continuously, must cost
many hundreds of thousands of pounds.. This confirms my belief that the
state is funding the campaign against. mehat the Security Service receives
current annual funding of #160M.. Divided by 1850 staff, works out at
#86,000. But. the unit annual cost of each "watcher" must be much higher
than this, especially given the frequently mobile and overseas. nature of
their actions. of the last few years. A very conservative figure might be a
little over #100,000. pa for each of a team of five people, or half a
million pounds per year. For nine years, so far. So. the most conservative
estimate of the surveillance element alone is. perhaps four or five million
pounds since. 1990.

This guesstimate is of course. theoretical - I am not privy to inside
details of. how MI5 split their funding. But to take some other examples,
the cost of. a US counter-surveillance specialist per day is USD
5,000. Even if the agents permanently assigned to. me are not of this
calibre - even if they. employ specialists when difficult work planting
bugs etc. is encountered - their salary and support costs must still be
very high. The individual agents are doing well for themselves as. they are
well-paid to exercise psychopathic instincts which in any sane. society
would. see them in prison; but the taxpayers who must fund this terribly
wasteful exercise are being. "done" out of hundreds of thousands of pounds
each. year.

It must be emphasised. that the above estimates are highly
conservative. Besides the surveillance. operation, it must carry a high
cost in man-hours to propagate covert slanders through the population;. to
setup and maintain the "interactive watching" links. to TV and radio
stations, which these organisations continue desparately to "lie. and
deny";. and to induce antipathy in co-workers which would not otherwise
exist.

Why they. are wasting Millions of Pounds on a "Nobody from South London"

As remarked in the. prologue to this article, it is really most
extraordinary that. the Security Service spends a chunk of its budget,
every year for nine years. so far, on a meaningless campaign against a
"nobody from. South London". That they are spending such a large amount of
money has been confirmed to me. on several occasions, usually by oblique
references to "its costing this country millions". The. supposed
"logic" behind the persecution is that MI5 wish to. avoid their harassment
of me, and the involvement of the. UK media, to be made public; yet as the
reader will appreciate that is a circular argument, "theyre. doing it
because they want. to keep it secret and avoid humiliation for themselves
and their country" begs the question, "why. did they start doing it in the
first place?",. to which in truth I myself do not know the answer.

Plainly MI5 with its rich budget can afford half a. million pounds a year
to waste on a "nobody from South London". Some. time ago I was talking to a
British surveillance professional on. Compuserve who told me "this work
costs a lot of money and is usally. because the person I am following has
done something (usually criminal) to warrant all this. money and time being
spent." Yet in. this particular case it is plainly not the "victims
fault" that the harassment is taking place. The hate-campaign. against me
is completely the creation of the obsessive. psychologies of the MI5 agents
who have made themselves my. persecutors; it is obviously a
"personal" campaign for them, and for . years they misuse taxpayer funding
to feed their insane, unnatural. and fixated fantasies.

2496

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesaler sport shoes,clothing,electrons mobile phone (Nokia N95=260
USD)(sport shoes=28USD)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5bf901f7a4e8370e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: China Cheap Replica Fashion Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/40e1f314c094213c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 3:40 am
From: yangqing@huatongcn.cn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: golden supplier best service,lowest price (http://www.silkonroad.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a05ce5f2ebe7cef0?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 4:30 am
From: xiaobb01@gmail.com

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TOPIC: Free Baby Bib From Beech Nut Baby Food!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/60f5d5d24bbfbb87?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 5:09 am
From: "FreebiesPl.us"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: X_Music_X_Rare Beatles
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ddb0bc4c94aec986?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 5:26 am
From: Hostel

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== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 5:45 am
From: KLS

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:24:50 -0800, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:

>Shawn Hirn wrote:
>>
>> My parents offered to sell their modest row house and use it and a large
>> investment that comes due in 2008 for this purpose. My job is good and
>> my FICO score is high, so making the mortgage payments is not a problem
>> for a house my folks and I would want in the area my parents have in
>> mind.
>
>My sister (with her husband and children) did this with my elderly mom,
>and it is working out perfectly fine, except they ended up doing what
>they needed to in order to get her name off the mortgage, because there
>were potential Medicare-type complications.
>
>The fact that they gave you such a HUGE gift could cause major problems
>with Medicare if one of them gets ill in the next X (I don't know what
>the number is) years, because Medicare will look at that as an attempt
>to hide money in order to take money from the system instead of use
>their own funds. And if you put their name on the title of the house to
>try to avoid having it look like that, the fact that they own a house
>will cause problems with Medicare as well.

Excellent points above. Based on a good friend's experience, the
timeframe is three years from the date of the gift that the federal
government will thoroughly investigate financial records to verify
assets and need.

If your parents are in pretty good health, now is the time to make
this kind of transfer. I do agree with everyone else that you need to
take under advisement the long-term ramifications of this kind of
undertaking. Financially, it's a great idea, but it does jeopardize
your prospects of marriage and increase your chances of taking on huge
caretaking duties.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 6:06 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <476f3578$0$84191$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net>
wrote:

> Shawn Hirn wrote:
> >
> > More than likely, we'll get a duplex. If my folks move out (to a nursing
> > home, for example), or I get a job outside this area (very unlikely),
> > then the vacant half can be rented out. Either way, we will not take on
> > a mortgage that neither of us can handle if the other isn't available.
>
> If you are going to get a duplex, then you should buy one unit and your
> parents the other unit, providing that you are talking about a true
> duplex that is legally considered two single-family homes and not one
> building set up with flats that is considered a two-family occupancy
> building.

I don't think that's an option with a duplex. You are referring to a
condo, as was pointed out by someone else.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 6:46 am
From: "Janie"

"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:srhi-A50898.09064426122007@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> In article <476f3578$0$84191$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>> > >> If you are going to get a duplex, then you should buy one unit and
>> > >> your
>> parents the other unit, providing that you are talking about a true
>> duplex that is legally considered two single-family homes and not one
>> building set up with flats that is considered a two-family occupancy
>> building.
>
> I don't think that's an option with a duplex. You are referring to a
> condo, as was pointed out by someone else.

It may depend on regulations where you live. Here, duplexes can be owned by
different people. Both sides have their own utilities, and each side is
treated as though they were individual structures. My community is filled
with duplexes that were originally built as company houses. In our area,
condos tend to be on common ground with some type of housing association
having control over the grounds and exterior of the structures.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 8:24 am
From: Banty

In article <dd894$47726838$a22719ae$25724@ALLTEL.NET>, Janie says...
>
>
>"Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:srhi-A50898.09064426122007@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> In article <476f3578$0$84191$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
>> Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>>> > >> If you are going to get a duplex, then you should buy one unit and
>>> > >> your
>>> parents the other unit, providing that you are talking about a true
>>> duplex that is legally considered two single-family homes and not one
>>> building set up with flats that is considered a two-family occupancy
>>> building.
>>
>> I don't think that's an option with a duplex. You are referring to a
>> condo, as was pointed out by someone else.
>
>It may depend on regulations where you live. Here, duplexes can be owned by
>different people. Both sides have their own utilities, and each side is
>treated as though they were individual structures. My community is filled
>with duplexes that were originally built as company houses. In our area,
>condos tend to be on common ground with some type of housing association
>having control over the grounds and exterior of the structures.
>
>

Same around here. And it is frequent that extended family members buy the two
sides of the duplex.

I think some confusion comes in because, in some parts of the country, housing
that is set up to look like duplexes and rowhouses only occur in relatively new
condo, rental, or coop developments.

But here in upstate New York, we have duplexes that are owned as two single
family houses, in Europe (as in England) it's also relatively common. One would
be on sale, the other not; one would be getting a new roof and siding; the other
not. Very common. Also, several of the military housing units I grew up in
were duplexes. Of course there there's one owner, but it's acccepted and
administered as separate units. It's just one way to increase efficiency in
setting up housing.

Banty

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 8:44 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <Xns9A10D93FA8F0Dcmquinnnevermindspri@216.168.3.70>,
Charles Quinn <cmquinn@NEVERmindspring.com> wrote:

> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in news:srhi-6E9E70.08155323122007
> @newsgroups.comcast.net:
>
> >
> > My folks are dead set against my idea because of high crime in the area
> > I am considering. My parents made me an offer that's tough to refuse.
> My
> > dad's 81. My mom's 69. I am 46. They want to essentially put down what
> > would contribute a large down payment toward of the cost of a house,
> put
> > it in my name, and we would share it. I would make the mortgage
> > payments. We would share utilities.
> >
> > My parents offered to sell their modest row house and use it and a
> large
> > investment that comes due in 2008 for this purpose. My job is good and
> > my FICO score is high, so making the mortgage payments is not a problem
> > for a house my folks and I would want in the area my parents have in
> > mind.
>
> Your scheme above would be INCOME to you in the eyes of the IRS. They
> gave you a huge gift. The mortgage lender would want to know more about
> this gift. I would recommend that you all be put on the deed to the house
> with proper survivorship you will inherit the house with no tax
> implication. Please consult with a real estate attorney before you make
> a mistake that would make you liable for a large income tax event.

Thanks. This is great advise, and my folks and I will definitely consult
with a real estate attorney before we sign on the dotted line.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 10:26 am
From: Seerialmom

On Dec 23, 8:28 pm, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply
<mmea...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
> Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
> > More than likely, we'll get a duplex. If my folks move out (to a nursing
> > home, for example), or I get a job outside this area (very unlikely),
> > then the vacant half can be rented out. Either way, we will not take on
> > a mortgage that neither of us can handle if the other isn't available.
>
> If you are going to get a duplex, then you should buy one unit and your
> parents the other unit, providing that you are talking about a true
> duplex that is legally considered two single-family homes and not one
> building set up with flats that is considered a two-family occupancy
> building.
>
> --
> Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
> work with excellence.

A true duplex in California is the opposite of what you describe; it's
two attached in the middle and sharing much of the plumbing (and
aren't greatly soundproofed or firewalled). There are some that are
constructed in such a way they are simply 2 attached dwellings and are
sold separately; but are sold as both sides. Most of the time these
are reasonable if you want to live in one and rent out the other; or
in Shawn's case perhaps have the parents in the other side.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 10:29 am
From: Seerialmom

On Dec 24, 4:47 am, "Chloe" <justsa...@spam.com> wrote:
> "Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply" <mmea...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote in
> messagenews:476f3578$0$84191$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>
> > Shawn Hirn wrote:
>
> >> More than likely, we'll get a duplex. If my folks move out (to a nursing
> >> home, for example), or I get a job outside this area (very unlikely),
> >> then the vacant half can be rented out. Either way, we will not take on a
> >> mortgage that neither of us can handle if the other isn't available.
>
> > If you are going to get a duplex, then you should buy one unit and your
> > parents the other unit, providing that you are talking about a true duplex
> > that is legally considered two single-family homes and not one building
> > set up with flats that is considered a two-family occupancy building.
>
> Just FWIW, the distinction you make with regard to terminology is not used
> in my part of the country. As used here, duplex simply means two separate
> living spaces which share a common wall (or floor/ceiling). Many buildings
> referred to as duplexes cannot be bought or sold as two separate units. If
> they can be held in separate ownership, they're called condos. And the term
> "flats" isn't used at all.

It's that British thing...we wear boots on our feet, not as a part of
the car and a bonnet goes on a baby's head, not the front of the car.
But regional terminology aside, I think most readers would know what a
"flat" is (unless they're so used to shopping at Ikea they think the
poster was talking about unassembled furniture you can throw on the
top of a VW bug).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: :) Happy New Year :)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c0c82789ab0b8b2c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Balance Transfer Credit Cards
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f49ea664d9245cd0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 6:39 am
From: sunting

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Natural gas space heaters
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/620118e627721656?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 7:40 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

>Lately I'm thinking a natural convection air-air heat exchanger might be nice,
>with more airflow than a sensible heat exchanger, since humidity adds bouyancy
>and the outgoing air would be warmer, with condensation.

Something like this sensible calc, with poly film plates...

20 H=4'hx height (feet)
30 W=2'hx width (feet)
35 NP=8'number of hx plates
40 A=2*NP*H*W'hx area (ft^2)
50 U=1.5'hx conductance (Btu/h-F-ft^2)
60 CFM=37'hx airflow
70 NTU=A*U/CFM'Number of heat Transfer Units
80 E=NTU/(NTU+1)'hx effectiveness
90 TCI=31.8'cold inlet temp (F)
100 THI=65'hot inlet temp (F)
110 TCO=TCI+E*(THI-TCI)'cold outlet temp (F)
120 TCA=(TCI+TCO)/2'average cold temp (F)
130 THO=THI-(TCO-TCI)'hot outlet temp (F)
140 THA=(THI+THO)/2'average hot temp (F)
150 DT=THA-TCA'average temp diff (F)
160 AV=CFM/(16.6*SQR(H*DT))'vent area (ft^2)
170 S=12*AV/((NP-1)*W)'min plate spacing (inches)
180 DS=4/25.4'Coroplast spacer depth (inches)
190 NS=INT(S/DS+.5)'# Coroplast spacers
200 D=(2+(NP+1)*NS)*DS'hx depth (inches)
220 PRINT E,D,S,NS
230 PRINT THI,THO,TCI,TCO

effectiveness depth (in) spacing (in) # spacers

0.838428 4.566929 0.4124437 3

Thi Tho Tci Tco

65 37.16419 31.8 59.63581

To avoid freezing, a $13 TC-3 Thermocube might turn on a small
room air exhaust fan when the room air outlet temp drops to 35 F.

Nick

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 8:16 am
From: BeneathTheStairs@gmail.com

I recently moved into a 1950s house that my family spent 9 months
renovating. This blog is about the process of doing this renovation.
My blog "I must have been crazy to take this on" can be read at
http://personalgenesis.blogspot.com/.

Please provide comments on what info you would like or email me with
questions.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 8:30 am
From: clams_casino

BeneathTheStairs@gmail.com wrote:

>
>Please provide comments on what info you would like.
>
>

I would like to see no more blog spam.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Personal Finance Notebook: How to save money
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/716f839e73fa2392?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 10:00 am
From: Ablang

Personal Finance Notebook: How to save money
Readers tell of their disciplined habits, careful budgeting and
sensible spending that paid off
By Claudia Buck - cbuck at sacbee.com

Published 12:00 am PST Tuesday, December 25, 2007
Story appeared in BUSINESS section, Page D5

http://www.sacbee.com/103/story/590429.html

The season of giving - and spending - is an awfully hard time to be
thinking of saving, even though we know we should.

More than half of all Americans - 52 percent - say they can't afford
to save or are doing so inadequately, according to a recent national
survey by the Consumer Federation of America and Wachovia Bank.

Seeking enlightenment, we turned to some regional experts: Bee
readers. Asked to share suggestions, readers responded with
enthusiasm.

Some wrote lengthy, detailed descriptions. Others kept their
suggestions succinct. But all carried a common refrain: Think before
you spend. Then enjoy what you've got.

So, we're sharing the gift of financial well-being with a wealth of
money-saving ideas from some readers who have something to teach us
all.

FATHER KNOWS BEST

Jenny C. Cook

Auburn

Growing up on a Minnesota dairy farm in the 1920s, Jenny C. Cook
didn't share her father's passion for farming but did take to heart
his lifelong lessons on savings. After marrying and moving to
California, she earned a college degree and became a full-time mother
of two. Now 86, widowed but financially secure, she offered this
homespun wisdom:

When I left home just before WWII, my father gave me a piece of
advice: "Pay as little interest as possible, but collect as much as
you can." What he meant was keep your money in the bank where it can
draw interest. That's where money was considered safe back then.

When I was young, stocks were taboo. No one bought stocks because of
the (1929) market crash. But today, if I were starting over, I'd
invest in mutual funds.

Based on what my father taught me, here's my advice: "Live below your
income. You'll never feel poor."

To make that possible:

* Pay credit cards fully at the end of the month, so you don't incur
charges.

* Save beforehand for big items, like cars, appliances, etc., so you
don't acquire a lot of debt.

* Protect yourself with insurance against big catastrophes, whether
it's your home or your health. I also learned that from my dad, who
always carried tornado insurance, even when the other farmers thought
he was crazy. You have to protect yourself from the uncertainties of
life.

Then relax and live the best way possible on what you have to spend.

DEVISE A STRATEGY

Hal Young

Shingle Springs

As a struggling young schoolteacher raising seven kids in the 1970s,
Hal Young and his wife learned how to stretch a dollar. One of his
favorite strategies for staying on a disciplined budget was a system
of white envelopes, which were filled every two weeks with designated
amounts of cash for discretionary spending - the places "where your
spending can get away from you." Today, at 58, he owns a financial
advising company and still relies on some of the basic principles
learned in the lean years:

* Design a budget that matches your income and put it into writing. As
much as possible, track your expenses, including everything from
church tithing to entertainment.

* Budget for investment and savings, even if it's only a small amount
each month. Pay yourself first by having your investment deducted from
your paycheck and automatically put into a 401(k) or other retirement
investments.

* Set up a system where you set aside cash for discretionary spending.
For instance, every two weeks, fill individual envelopes with specific
cash amounts for groceries, gas, gifts and "fun" money. When the
envelope is empty, you're done spending.

* Allocate 50 percent of all windfalls to investment/savings. In other
words, if you get an unexpected refund or raise, put half into your
savings.

* Practice good health habits and physical fitness, which will save
you in health care costs. If your employer does not cover you for
health insurance, carry only catastrophic or a very high-deductible
plan to keep your premium costs low.

LIVE ROYALLY, CUT CORNERS

Karen Hess

Yuba City

After losing a $70,000-a-year job with Hewlett-Packard in Texas, Karen
Hess moved back home to Yuba City to save money. A self-described
"Queen of Cheap," Hess discovered that even without a permanent job,
she could still live royally while cutting corners.

While collecting unemployment benefits, it became imperative to pay
attention to my grocery budget. I turned to my local Grocery Outlet,
where I could buy gourmet items such as chicken sausages with sun-
dried tomatoes and specialty fish such as orange roughy and tilapia at
bargain prices.

Since the store's selection varies weekly, this approach requires
flexibility and some creativity in meal planning. When I was stumped
for recipes, I searched the Food Network's Web site for ideas. Using
this approach, I've had varied, delicious meals. I went to the regular
grocery store only for my produce.

I figure I've saved at least 30 percent off retail prices. The proof
is in the financial results. I was receiving about $1,480 in
unemployment benefits every month, and my rent is $735 a month. Not
once during that six-month period did I have to dip into savings to
meet my expenses.

My lesson learned: You can live just as well on less.

Among Hess' other tips:

* Buy used books on Amazon.com: She particularly looks for used books
sold by libraries, since she figures the money will buy more books.

* Sign up for daily digests from "Freecycle," "Freeshare" and
"Cheapcycle," which are online user groups that post items for sale or
giveaway. Her best find: a printer/scanner/fax/copier for $32.

* Share meals. For a treat, she and a friend split the tab for two-for-
one restaurant dinners, using coupons clipped from her daily
newspaper.

* Shop "Big Lots" and dollar stores for discounted household items,
especially electronics and office/school supplies. Hess said she
completely retrofitted the lighting in her two-bedroom apartment with
compact fluorescent bulbs for about $1 each.

LIVE ON HALF YOUR INCOME

Misty Miller

Sacramento

"To save money and accumulate wealth, live frugally and invest
heavily. The earlier you get started, the sooner you will reach your
goal."

That's the financial philosophy Misty Miller has followed since
getting her first job in a downtown law office more than 20 years ago.

Just as she did as a young CSUS college graduate, Miller brews her own
coffee, brown-bags her lunch, and walks or takes the bus to work every
day.

During most of the last two decades, she's managed to live on half of
her monthly pay and invest the other half. Today, at age 48, she's
just a few mortgage payments away from owning her Tahoe Park home free
and clear. Here's her path:

I had a strict grocery budget ($20 per week back then), ate breakfast
and dinner at home, and brown-bagged my lunch to work. I avoided
coffee shops, beauty salons and restaurants. Having a cat was my only
extravagance. I lived on one paycheck and used the other for my debts:
two student loans, a car payment and Weinstocks and Sears charge
cards.

Four years later, I made the final debt payment, which freed up one
paycheck per month for discretionary income. I decided to stick to
living on one paycheck and investing the other in blue-chip stocks. I
was 28 years old, and the stock market had crashed just a few months
earlier. Stocks were on sale, and I recognized a bargain. I invested
my money in a handful of mutual funds at Twentieth Century (now known
as American Century).

In 1990, I decided to buy a house. Although I qualified for a low-
income, first-time homebuyer loan with a reduced interest rate, the
monthly debt service on the mortgage gobbled up an entire paycheck
(principal, interest, taxes, insurance), plus I paid an extra $81 per
month toward principal to pay off the 30-year mortgage in 20 years.

My second paycheck paid for groceries and other living expenses, but I
continued to live frugally and was still able to invest some money in
mutual funds every month.

In 1993, I refinanced my mortgage at a much lower rate, to a 15-year
note with a final payment in 2008. I was fully invested in the stock
market throughout the 1990s bull market, and my money more than
quadrupled.

In 2000, I still had a lot of money in stocks. I lost money in the
(dot-com) crash but didn't sell anything during the bear market. Once
again, I recognized a bargain and added to my stock portfolio.

Fast forward to today, December 2007. I am still working full time (by
choice) and living on half my income, and investing the other half.
I've received raises over the years but spend only 50 percent of each
raise and invest the other half.

I've concluded that quitting the work force isn't all it's made out to
be. I think I'll stick around because I have a great job, and it makes
me happy to go to work.

For anyone who wants to invest: Wait for that next raise, then take
the extra money and invest it, while keeping your same standard of
living. Instead of buying a new car, a new house or a new 50-inch flat-
screen TV, buy stocks.

Think carefully before making decisions on where and how you will
live. For instance, if you are buying a house, remember that the
closer you live to work, the less it will cost in time and money
getting to work.

Doing all these things adds up to a lifestyle choice that some people
aren't willing or able to make. I made it easy on myself by avoiding
extravagances. My salary has increased over the years, so I have been
able to afford occasional vacations and a new car.

I don't buy anything unless I can pay cash. If I use my credit card, I
pay in full on the due date. With the exception of my mortgage, which
I'll pay off in April, I have no debt.

I am a rank-and-file state worker, not a highly paid executive. I
receive no extra money from my family or anyone else. I am self-made.

My investments are currently 60 percent in stocks and 40 percent in
cash. I am living comfortably in a "cozy" house close to work, and I
continue to ride public transit to my job.

My biggest extravagance: I now have two cats, instead of one.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Panasonic KX-6051B - base speaker noise
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86fabb358c5ff016?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 26 2007 10:31 am
From: "P.Schuman"

Just picked up a new Panasonic TG6054B 5.8Ghz cordless phone system
with 4 handsets (KX-TGA600) and the single answering base unit.... KX-6051

Wonder if there are any other more appropriate newsgroups for "cordless phones"
?

It works great.... the feature I wanted was the ability to have Caller ID
match up to an internal phone book entry, like on a cell phone.
We noticed that more and more calls were coming from cell phones,
and we just couldn't remember everyone's number as it appears on CID,
and the "names" displayed were just generic "cellular" in most cases.

Anyway - the system works great.... there are some minor issues,
like when copying the phonebook entries to other handsets,
you don't have to the option to walk thru all the other handsets at once,
but must walk thru the entire keyboard process for each.

Recently - (reason for posting)
noticed something "weird" on the small base unit.
When using any handset...
the "speaker" on the base unit has a random spurt of raspy sound
like when someone talks loud on the handset,
and it is only for a split second (peak)
then comes out on the base speaker.....
It's random, and for just a split second....

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Frugal Living

Blog Archive

Wednesday, December 26, 2007

24 new messages in 14 topics - digest

25 new messages in 14 topics - digest