Frugal Living: Oct 16, 2007

Tuesday, October 16, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bush To Let Illegal Aliens Get $40 Digital TV Coupons
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f941e4a655a77d3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 10:22 am
From: David Johnston

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 04:43:43 -0700, SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>Rod Speed wrote:
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com>
>>
>> > Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?
>>
>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.
>
>
>
>Why is it necessary for them to enter illegally? Why can't they
>follow the process of filling-out an application, and getting a Visa?
>This is what my Chinese friend did. This is what my other Japanese
>friend did. I'm sure the Mexicans can do the same... just ask the
>U.S. embassy for the application. Be legal, not illegal.

There's no way the United States would ever allow most of them to
immigrate. There are too many of them and the kind of work they do
isn't valued highly.

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 10:47 am
From: "Rod Speed"

SFTV_troy <SFTV_troy@yahoo.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote

>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer
>>> to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?

>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

> Why is it necessary for them to enter illegally?

Because they wont be allowed in using the legal route.

If they apply to enter the US to stay permanently, they will be refused entry.

> Why can't they follow the process of filling-out an application, and getting a Visa?

Because they wont get that visa.

> This is what my Chinese friend did. This is what my other Japanese friend did.

And vastly more got told that they dont qualify.

> I'm sure the Mexicans can do the same... just ask the
> U.S. embassy for the application. Be legal, not illegal.

And get told that they dont qualify.

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 11:33 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-0D4742.18484115102007@news.giganews.com...
> In article <4713bc2b$0$28845$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> news:atropos-6907A0.21372114102007@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <47129667$0$15370$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>> >> > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
>> >> >> > In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> >> >> > "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Build the Fence!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to
>> >> >> > U.S.
>> >> >> > soil, the law says they get to stay.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to
>> >> > stay
>> >> > here as foreign residents at a minimum.
>> >>
>> >> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line"
>> >> and
>> >> those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping ahead of the
>> >> line"?
>> >
>> > Nothing as far as I'm concerned. But there is the fact that one is
>> > illegal and the other is not...
>>
>> the only important fact is, it is our government who decides who is legal
>> and who is illegal. So, it is our government who can decide to turn what
>> is
>> otherwise considered illegal to be legal.
>
> But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
> (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and then
> ignore it.

They are the ones who make the laws. They have the power to change the law
anytime they want to. They passed the fourteenth ammendment, then reversed
themselves and invalidated the fourteenth ammendment. In othher words they
make the rules that we have to play by.

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 11:35 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4713cb45$0$11605$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:5ngj7lFi1sduU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:47129667$0$15370$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:atropos-E4164D.15112014102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>> In article <47125a29$0$4988$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
>>>>>> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:atropos-D73048.19062613102007@news.giganews.com...
>>>>>>>> In article <5ncm9aFhpimdU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Build the Fence!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to
>>>>>>>> U.S. soil, the law says they get to stay.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get
>>>>>> to stay here as foreign residents at a minimum.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the
>>>>> line" and those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping
>>>>> ahead of the line"?
>>>
>>>> It's part of a program President Kennedy or Johnson put in place
>>>> for the bang up job they did in the Bay of Pigs.
>>>
>>> No it isnt, it preceeded that.
>>
>> What preceded that?
>
> That business about them being allowed to stay if
> they made it to the US preceeded the Bay of Pigs.
>
>
>

Yep, so what? Maybe they just used the Bay of Pigs as an excuse to sell the
public that was the thing to do?

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 11:36 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4713cb2f$0$11591$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have
>>>>>>>> now.
>
>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of
>>>>>>> illegals.
>
>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...", it did
>>>>>> not even mention NAFTA.
>
>>>>> Its a similar economic change.
>
>>>> Why is it "similar"?
>
>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.
>
>> Ageed
>
>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is
>>>>>> not intended to fix the problem), are you
>>>>>> going to argue that it won't "help"?
>
>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico,
>>>>> that wont have any effect on the number that still decide that
>>>>> their prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.
>
>> Agreed again, but it helps....
>
> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.
>
>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would not
>>>> otherwise have,
>
>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.
>
>> huh?
>
> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.
>
>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this
>>>> country illegally?
>
>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA still
>>> provides them with much worse living
>>> standards than moving to the US does.
>
>> so?
>
> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico wont
> actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing to move
> to the US, essentially because whatever is done in Mexico will STILL
> see them with much worse living standards in mexico than in the US.
>
>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico
>> rather than enter this country illegally?
>
> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.
>
>
>

then why aren't more of them here?

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 11:42 am
From: "Jerry Okamura"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ni07aFi894fU3@mid.individual.net...
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>>>>>> It works in Israel.
>
>>>>>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.
>
>>>>>>>> why son't it work?
>
>>>>>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.
>
>>>>>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United
>>>>>> States.
>
>>>>> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the
>>>>> Cubans.
>
>>>>>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States
>>>>>> over water?
>
>>>>> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have
>>>>> to.
>
>>>>>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.
>
>>>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much
>>>>>>>> more difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.
>
>>>>>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>>>>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>>>>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.
>
>>>>>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?
>
>>>>> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.
>
>>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?
>
>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
>>>>> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
>>>>> much better in the US than where they are coming from.
>
>>>> Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their
>>>> birth to seek a better life somewhere else. The solution is to
>>>> have a government in their country that adopts the right policy,
>>>> that eliminates the causes.
>
>>> Pity you cant even point to any equivalent country with a
>>> birth rate that Mexico has that has ever managed to do that.
>
>> It is not the birthrate that is the problem,
>
> Corse it is.

No, it is the fact that they cannot earn a good living in Mexico.
>
>> it is the fact that their government has not adopted polices to help
>> these who live in their country to live a reasonably good life.
>
> Not even possible with the birth rate they have.
>
> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that
> has
> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.
>
>> If the birth rate is high, then they just have to adopt policies that can
>> accomodate that higher birth rate.
>
> No such animal.
>
> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that
> has
> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.
>
>>> Even eliminating the birth rate problem as china has done, STILL sees
>>> a situation where hordes of chinese would move to the US if they were
>>> allowed to, because the living standards are so much better in the US.
>
>> Which tells you that ultimately it depends on having the right politcy.
>
> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that
> has
> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.
>
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2054.html

The countries on the list stand out. Bahamas, Belgium, Bermuda, and

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:08 pm
From: Thanatos

In article <47150409$0$4995$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

> "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message

> > But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
> > (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and then
> > ignore it.
>
> They are the ones who make the laws.

And they also have to abide by them.

> They have the power to change the law

And until they do, they have to abide by them.

> They passed the fourteenth ammendment, then reversed
> themselves and invalidated the fourteenth ammendment.

Really? I wasn't aware the 14th had been repealed. Which amendment
repealed it?

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:21 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote
>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Thanatos <atropos@mac.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rick <videojockey1a@yahoo.comzzzz> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>> Build the Fence!

>>>>>>>>>> They'd just do an end run around it, like the Cubans do.

>>>>>>>>> The reason it works for the Cubans is that once they make it to U.S. soil, the law says they get to stay.

>>>>>>>> Jumping ahead of the line when they do that?

>>>>>>> I don't know if they get to become citizens or not. But they get to stay here as foreign residents at a minimum.

>>>>>> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and those illegals who are in this country
>>>>>> already, "jumping ahead of the line"?

>>>>> It's part of a program President Kennedy or Johnson put in place for the bang up job they did in the Bay of Pigs.

>>>> No it isnt, it preceeded that.

>>> What preceded that?

>> That business about them being allowed to stay if
>> they made it to the US preceeded the Bay of Pigs.

> Yep, so what?

So the original was incorrect.

> Maybe they just used the Bay of Pigs as an excuse to sell the public that was the thing to do?

Nope, he just got it wrong.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:24 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> But any market reform in Mexico would be better than what they have now.

>>>>>>>> Wouldnt fix the problem. NAFTA had no effect on the number of illegals.

>>>>>>> First of all the comment was "any market reform in Mexico...",
>>>>>>> it did not even mention NAFTA.

>>>>>> Its a similar economic change.

>>>>> Why is it "similar"?

>>>> Because its another way of getting economic change.

>>> Ageed

>>>>>>> Second, while it is true that NAFTA will not fix the problem (it is not intended to fix the problem), are you
>>>>>>> going to argue that it won't "help"?

>>>>>> Nope, that while it may well help the economic situation in Mexico, that wont have any effect on the number that
>>>>>> still decide that their prospects are much better in the US than back in Mexico.

>>> Agreed again, but it helps....

>> Not with what is being discussed, the number of illegals from Mexico.

>>>>> Huh? Does it provide jobs for some in Mexico that they would not otherwise have,

>>>> Thats arguable given that china manages fine without that.

>>> huh?

>> China doesnt have anything like NAFTA with the US and
>> has plenty of jobs in areas that export to the US anyway.

>>>>> and doesn't that provide them with the incentive not to enter this> country illegally?

>>>> Nope, because work in those operations that do benefit from NAFTA still provides them with much worse living
>>>> standards than moving to the US does.

>>> so?

>> So your line about improving the economic situation in Mexico wont
>> actually have any effect on the number of illegals choosing to move
>> to the US, essentially because whatever is done in Mexico will STILL
>> see them with much worse living standards in mexico than in the US.

>>> Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?

>> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
>> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
>> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

> then why aren't more of them here?

Because the US makes it hard for mexicans to just move to the US.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:30 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>> But where is the fence?
>>>>>>>>>>> It works in Israel.

>>>>>>>>>> And wouldnt work with Mexico.

>>>>>>>>> why son't it work?

>>>>>>>> Because its so easy to do an end run around it.

>>>>>>> Going around it means you have to go over water to enter the United States.

>>>>>> And clearly plenty are prepared to do that, most obviously with the Cubans.

>>>>>>> Which is easier, walking across land, or entering the United States over water?

>>>>>> Easier is irrelevant if they will use the harder route if they have to.

>>>>>>>>>> There's already much better than a fence with Cuba
>>>>>>>>>> and there are hordes of Cubans in the country anyway.

>>>>>>>>> A couple of thoughts on Cuba. First, even though it is much
>>>>>>>>> more difficult for them to come, they do keep coming.

>>>>>>>> And even with a perfect fence between the US and
>>>>>>>> Mexico, so would the Mexicans and other south americans
>>>>>>>> that currently move over where the fence would be.

>>>>>>> Which means you cannot stop people from doing what they want to do?

>>>>>> No, that you can stop some, but not all of them.

>>>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem, by playing defense?

>>>>>> That there is no real solution to the problem regardless,
>>>>>> while ever so many realise that their prospects are so
>>>>>> much better in the US than where they are coming from.

>>>>> Of course there is a solution. People flee the country of their
>>>>> birth to seek a better life somewhere else. The solution is to
>>>>> have a government in their country that adopts the right policy,
>>>>> that eliminates the causes.

>>>> Pity you cant even point to any equivalent country with a
>>>> birth rate that Mexico has that has ever managed to do that.

>>> It is not the birthrate that is the problem,

>> Corse it is.

> No, it is the fact that they cannot earn a good living in Mexico.

Yep, the birth rate is the reason they cant earn a good living in mexico.

>>> it is the fact that their government has not adopted polices to help these who live in their country to live a
>>> reasonably good life.

>> Not even possible with the birth rate they have.

>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that has
>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.

>>> If the birth rate is high, then they just have to adopt policies that can accomodate that higher birth rate.

>> No such animal.

>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that has
>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.

>>>> Even eliminating the birth rate problem as china has done, STILL
>>>> sees a situation where hordes of chinese would move to the US if
>>>> they were allowed to, because the living standards are so much
>>>> better in the US.

>>> Which tells you that ultimately it depends on having the right politcy.

>> You cant list even a single country thats got a birth rate that high that has
>> worked out how to produce decent living standards. It isnt even possible.

> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2054.html

> The countries on the list stand out. Bahamas, Belgium, Bermuda, and

None of those has anything like US living standards except belgium,
and it doesnt have anything like the birth rate that mexico does.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to travel around the world for free
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9b25e255bbd39d8c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 10:33 am
From: "travelyourway123@yahoo.it"

Find out how you can travel around the world with paying a cent.
http://destination123.blogspot.com

Would you do what this guy is doing? It is like the Amazing Race but
at turtle pace

Joyangel123
http://gatesofrighteousness.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Radio Shack Battery Club
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0bed274e0c47e99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 11:01 am
From: Anthony Matonak

Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> Jeff wrote:
>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>>> A Veteran wrote:
>>> Remember when Radio Shack had its "Battery Club"?
>>>
>> I guess that folded when they ran through their stock of heavy duties.
>
> Actually, I suspect it was the arrival of alkaline batteries. The ones
> they used to hand out were zinc-carbon ones, which are not really made
> any more so far as I can tell.

Carbon batteries are still made and easily found in dollar stores and
some supermarkets. They usually say 'Heavy Duty' or something like that
and one might easily mistake them for something that they're not.

Anthony

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:37 pm
From: "bungalow_steve@yahoo.com"

On Oct 10, 2:31 pm, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
> larry wrote:
> > Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> >> Just another note on liquid soaps in dollar stores: Not only is it
> >> cheaper than at the grocery (even if you are buying large refill
> >> containers), but you can get "ordinary" soap (i.e., not
> >> anti-bacterial). For people who think that using anti-bacterial soap
> >> all the time is a bad time, this is useful to know.
>
> > Watch prices carefully at Dollar General. After their buyout, nothing
> > but another cashcow raid by KKR, they changed a lot of suppliers and
> > jacked up prices by about 30%!!!
>
> I don't even go to Dollar General or Family Dollar. In my opinion, they
> are mis-using the word "dollar" in their names. (Heck, I don't even
> like the dollar stores that have only two or three items priced more
> than a dollar!)
>
> Dollar Tree is probably the best chain, but we have mom-and-pop ones as
> well around here (central NJ) that are pretty good.
>
> --
> Evelyn C. Leeper
> He who knows only his own side of the case
> knows little of that. -John Stuart Mill

the mom and pop ones are great, all name brand excess/overstock/
discontinued stuff, not "dollar store brand", we have one in our area,
all the chains are horrible

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 2:46 pm
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

bungalow_steve@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Oct 10, 2:31 pm, "Evelyn C. Leeper" <elee...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Dollar Tree is probably the best chain, but we have mom-and-pop ones as
>> well around here (central NJ) that are pretty good.
>
> the mom and pop ones are great, all name brand excess/overstock/
> discontinued stuff, not "dollar store brand", we have one in our area,
> all the chains are horrible

Well, for plastics and kitchenware, a lot of the "dollar store brand" is
fine.

You need to watch the expiration dates on food, though--a lot of the
snack stuff has expired by the time it gets to the dollar stores.

The best deal we got was a half dozen boxes of chocolate-covered matzoh,
which would cost at least $5 each in the grocery. And there was no
problem, because matzoh doesn't really go stale. (Or as some people
say, it comes "pre-staled".)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
He who knows only his own side of the case
knows little of that. -John Stuart Mill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did I buy the worst two Nikon cameras (or are they all this bad?)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3b49006a02b43efc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 11:13 am
From: SMS

Jeff wrote:
> Jeanette Guire wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:54:59 +0100, BIC wrote:
>>
>>> you have just been unlucky...........or heavy handed.
>>
>>
>> It's a VERY common problem BIC. Google for the Nikon coolpix battery door
>> latch and you'll see many people have the same problem. For every one you
>> find, there are hundreds who don't know about the usenet or the forums.
>> Even Nikon's own forums are fraught with sorry sad little coolpix owners.
>
> Or switch to Canon. Canon has had a substantial lead on digital
> technology that the others have been playing catch up with for years.
> And the ergonomics of Canon are pretty good. I'm *really* hard on
> cameras and my Canon A95 is still ticking (so's my Rebel and elph). It's
> had a *lot* of exposures clicked through it.

It's true, the A series is remarkably robust for such an inexpensive
line of cameras.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Global Warming is caused by the Sun, the moon and the stars.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c41c5eb05d5c2e49?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:29 pm
From: PiggyPalace

Global Warming is caused by the Sun, the moon and the stars.
The lunar or long calendar accurately predicts 2012 to be the date the
gravity of the planet Venus negatively affects the Moon's lunar
trajectory
and causes disruptions in the weather patterns on the planet Earth.
Known
only as, and exacerbated by, Global Warming. Though for communities
of the time, then dependent largely on agricultural industries, this
was
known as the beginning of the end times or the apocalypse.
The event of Venus' orbit pulling the moon away from us only happens
once every 60,000 to 70,000 years and coincides with landmark claims
of human survival such as the book of Genesis and the predictions of
the Maya.

In order to thwart this new enemy, or threat from outer space as I
like to call it, we need to re engineer the moons orbit back to a
position agreeable with life on earth. This should be the sole focus
of Global Warming talks and endeavors.

That new bomb the Russians invented should do the trick. Just detonate
it alongside the trajectory of the moon and nudge it back into
place. Do this every once in a while and we'll have a very nice planet
to
live on for a long time to come. If not, then it is Hell On Road Off,
as the heat of Gehenna burn us all to death.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape
the damnation of Gehenna?" - Jesus Christ

"Control the trajectory of the moon, you control the seasons,
control the seasons, you control the weather,
control the weather, you control global warming,
control global warming, you control the temperature of the earth.
and that is how we escape." - Beelzebub

And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars
-
all the heavenly array-do not be enticed into bowing down to them and
worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned
to all the nations under heaven. Deuteronomy 4:19

Sincerely yours,

Norman Christian Hoffmann
HAMC
piggypalace@goodtimessociety.net
www.Goodtimessociety.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's red ....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1ab4eec5e0e4a531?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:17 pm
From: Adam Funk

On 2007-10-16, Otto Bahn wrote:

>> What about at work?
>
> We have auto-flush toilets.

Ever seen "waterless urinals"?

>> What do your coworkers say when they walk in after you to find
>> a golden glowing bowl of piss?
>
> You need to drink more water.

Or take less B2.

--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. [plorkwort]

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:42 pm
From: "Otto Bahn"

"Adam Funk" <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote

> >> What about at work?
> >
> > We have auto-flush toilets.
>
> Ever seen "waterless urinals"?

Do my lawn and woods count?

> >> What do your coworkers say when they walk in after you to find
> >> a golden glowing bowl of piss?
> >
> > You need to drink more water.
>
> Or take less B2.

Rock Lobster!

--oTTo--

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 3:49 pm
From: Glenn Knickerbocker

Otto Bahn wrote:
> "Adam Funk" <a24061@ducksburg.com> wrote
> > Or take less B2.
> Rock Lobster!

YM "Lobter!" HTH. HAND.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PLEASE HELP US
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/641fd0f99dd59d56?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:34 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 16, 12:24 pm, Albert <savec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> we are a young couple from Italy looking for help.
> Take a look to our homepage
>
> Thanks
>
> Albert

No thanks.
PS. Your last name is not Einstein is it?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Good Morning Hawaii TV T-Shirt
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0b6f34980699ab5d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:37 pm
From: Al Bundy

TheBestFreebies.com wrote:
> We would love to hear from you. All you have to do is fill out the
> form below, leave a small comment and we'll send you a prize.
> Please allow 4 to 6 weeks for delivery.
>
> --
> The Best Freebies
>
Too much work for a shirt with advertising on it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Acheter Acomplia en ligne
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ed5f44df1583cacf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:44 pm
From: Al Bundy

On Oct 16, 7:43 am, European <European...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Acheter Acomplia en ligne
>
> Acheter Acomplia en ligne L'Acomplia de Sanofi-Aventis est un nouveau
> médicament pouvant être prescrit dans le cadre du traitement contre
> l'obésité (associé à un régime adéquat et une activité physique
> régulière).
> Le Rimonabant (son composé actif) agit sur les récepteurs CB1 du
> système endocannabinoïde responsable des sensations de satiété, de
> l'équilibre énergétique et du métabolisme gluco-lipidique.
> En diminuant notablement la sensation de faim, il aide les patients à
> mieux contrôler et réduire leur alimentation.

Merde de Taureau. Juste ne mangez pas tellement.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: flush da toilet with rain-water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d09a42bdb27b1164?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 3:17 pm
From: Jeff

A Veteran wrote:
> our local University has built a "green" bldg. it collects rain water to
> flush the toilets. for at least 5 months in a very rainey North West.
>
I saw a grey water recycling for flushing toilets. It was rather simple
as it collected shower water in a small cistern and filtered it for the
toilet line. I thought it well done.

http://bracsystems.com

Saw it during the National Solar Open House at a local home. It's a
rediculous amount of money though... but I still like the idea.

Jeff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 3:58 pm
From: James

On Oct 16, 6:17 pm, Jeff <dont_bug...@all.uk> wrote:
> A Veteran wrote:
> > our local University has built a "green" bldg. it collects rain water to
> > flush the toilets. for at least 5 months in a very rainey North West.
>
> I saw a grey water recycling for flushing toilets. It was rather simple
> as it collected shower water in a small cistern and filtered it for the
> toilet line. I thought it well done.
>
> http://bracsystems.com
>
> Saw it during the National Solar Open House at a local home. It's a
> rediculous amount of money though... but I still like the idea.
>
> Jeff

An outhouse or composting toilet is even better since all that shit
don't have to go through sewerage treatment plant.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: cheapest sell wholesale Air jordan max dunk!!!!!!!!!! (www.alibabaunion.
com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/145f94f7fd3857ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:50 pm
From: polly.ch@hotmail.com

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free to contact us.
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==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com?hl=en

25 new messages in 17 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: For those who rarely fill their refrigerators.....
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5e16d6f7a7266491?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:07 am
From: 8orge.onx@gmail.com

Interesting discussion with much so far to agree with, yet myself I've
long had a fairly distinct understanding, mostly I think from general
(mostly online) reading though also possibly from Consumer Reports
which I follow and have sometimes subscribed to, that:
For Refrigerators, the least power consumption is "apt" to be at about
only 1/3 full; nearly as good is about 1/2 full.
Of course, in practical terms, this is going to vary a great deal
depending upon many variables--even probably with the type of food
involved. Another possibly big factor, I think, might be humidity
level: I think there might be "little comparison" between how much
energy at least initially, it'd take to cool down very humid air,
compared to nonhumid. Think of travelling, say biking or walking,
down a country road on a cool night--near wetlands or swamps, the air
is suddenly vastly warmer!--because, the humid air there very much
holds the heat. Just which way this bounces as to net effect with
refrigerators, I don't know, except to think that with my refrigs
which I tend to keep quite full (small farmer here), I think the air
tends to be very humid, so probably I get an advantage since losing
cold humid air would clearer be a greater loss than the equivalent of
lowly humid air, and so fullness here would probably be helping me
quite a bit.
That said, I do agree I think that in general, losing reasonable
amounts of air from a frig, is probably not such a big deal, and the
air/air's coolness is easily restored--which, I guess probably means I
think in most refrigerators (unlike mine with lots of fruit, wet
freshly washed produce etc) the frig air is probably kept at low
humidity, by the frig by design (except crispers, which, if they kept
at high humidity to keep produce moist and unwilted, would seem to
demonstrate the basic low-humidity plan of the (rest of) the frig not
counting the crispers.
As for stuff/amount of stuff in the refrig and the effect of such
'ballast" in helping maintain coldness, what about the shelf systems
and such? Extensive shelving, especially glass, must be able to hold
onto a lot of coolness.
The thing I personally orry about (along with my biggest concern of
all: keeping the good contained preserved and intact) more, is airflow
in the frig compartment overall--especially possibly near wherever the
thermostat happens to be, which I think varies among different makes--
because after all, the basic governance of refrigerator chilling
efforts overall, other than use factors, settings chosen and possibly
things like the mentioned humidity factor--would seem very much
revolve upon what's sensed, as to temperature, by that thermostat.
Which, I suppose, is why the thermostats are I think, usually toward
the back wall, where they will be more shielded by food present and by
distance from the door.

..."my thoughts" on the topic, if little more than that,
anyway...while as a berry grower/small farmer, the topic "is" one I
have had to take seriously both for walk-in cooler and regular refrigs.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:50 am
From: nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>... If you, say, never use the bottom shelf and you put a 5-gallon jug of
>water down there, and orient it so that it blocks the air from sinking out,
>it could reduce the airflow a lot and maybe only increase the condensation
>a little.

Near the bottom seems better than near the top, since cool air falls.
And empty seems better than water-filled, for less condensation. And
thin vs thick walls with more thermal mass, eg balloons vs jugs.

>Also, if you fill the fridge *really* full, you are reducing the total
>volume of air in the fridge...

That's good, after the door closes. Cooling 1 ft^3 of 0.075 lb/ft^3 70 F air
with a 0.24 Btu/lb-F specific heat to 36 F takes 0.075x0.24(70-36) = 0.6 Btu,
ie 0.18 watt-hour of heat energy, vs 1 Btu (0.29 Wh of electrical energy)
for each compressor start, vs a frugal fridge consuming 1 kWh/day.

If we open a 14 ft^3 fridge door 12 times per day, how much electrical energy
can we save by reducing it to a 7 ft^3 fridge with tightly-packed balloons?
Recall that 1 kWh of electrical energy can supply 3 kWh of coolth for a fridge
with a COP of 3. How much can we save with a 4- vs 1-hour cycle time?

>and thus reducing the airflow (because it takes force to move air through
>narrow passages, due to friction).

With gaps larger than 1/8" or so, more cold surfaces not only increase
condensation when the door is open. They also increase the rate of room
airflow through the fridge when the door is open, since room air that enters
the fridge leaves colder, and the air density difference driving the flow
is larger... cfm = 16.6Asqrt(HdT). I'd guess more condensation and airflow
in a fridge packed with water jugs waste a lot more energy than smaller
air volume and longer cycle time save.

Nick

==============================================================================
TOPIC: nothing to see here folks, just move along
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/cbc77de31f1e4169?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 12:08 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
just joe <don.gato@alaska.com> wrote just the
puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 5:21 am
From: William Souden

Rod Speed wrote:
> Some gutless fuckwit desperately cowering behind
> just joe <don.gato@alaska.com> wrote just the
> puerile shit thats all it can ever manage.
>
>
And the best that welfare Rod can ever manage is the same bot over
and over. Took him forever to figure out he was misspelling "puerile".
Come on, welfare boy, show us the flushing routine.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:36 am
From: Buddy

here's E Z Peaces's last post ->:
> Jeanette Guire wrote:
>> Neither olive oil nor vinegar need to be refrigerated; yet when mixed
>> (as
>> in home-made salad dressing), the recipes all ask for it to be
>> refrigerated
>> (where it congeals to a gooey mess).
>>
>> What is different about olive oil + vinegar + a few spices & salt from a
>> microbial culture standpoint?
>>
>> Why must I refrigerate a mix of that which doesn't itself need to be
>> refrigerated?
>
> Cheap olive oil goes rancid faster than good oil because cheap oil is
> more acidic. Also, if you keep your olive oil refrigerated, you may get
> condensation in the oil when you have the cold bottle out and open.
> Moisture may soon spoil the flavor.
>
> So when you add vinegar and water, the oil will deteriorate faster. Each
> time you shake it, you mix air into it.
With some trepidation, Buddy stepped into the quagmire to add:

If it's going to spoil on the table, then sometime it will spoil
in the frig too, only it will take longer. We all know that. It's
all relative and you can beat that relativity until it reaches the
molecular level - nobody's going to change anything, especially
somebodies sacred point of view.

Finally, don't forget the CYA factor that the food industry, the
government, and all authorities throw at you calling it fact. The
USDA guidelines currently call for eggs to be boiled at least 15
mins. I'm sure that there are a few of us who will continue to
enjoy a nice, 3 min. dropped egg, and those that will shudder at
the thought and go running to their 'guide books' for common sense.

I make my salad dressing in the bowl, on my salad fresh each time.
My EV olive oil isn't refrigerated nor are any of my vinegars
(some flavored with herbs sit unrefrigerated all the time). I
suppose if I made more, I would refrigerate it. But if it only
contained vinegar, oil and herbs, then I don't think it would
spoil out of the frig in the time it will take me to use it. But
it won't be a gallon of it!

><<XX>:> Buddy

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:18 am
From: zxcvbob

Rod Speed wrote:
> Daniel T. <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Daniel T. <daniel_t@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>> As I understand it, the garlic and other herbs put in the dressing
>>>> may have botulism spores on them, the oil provides the
>>>> environment for the botulism to grow. The vinegar doesn't stop
>>>> the growth because it separates too easily from the mix.
>
>>> Doesnt explain why the ready to use stuff keeps fine unrefrigerated
>>> but you need to refrigerate it once its been opened.
>
>> Commercial salad dressings and acidified sauces are microbiologically safe.
>
> They do however tell you to refrigerate after opening. There's a reason for that.

The main reason is because the taste better that way.

Bob

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Restaurant coupon issue - how SHOULD I have reacted?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a4082e25278c7472?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 1:28 am
From: Meghan Noecker

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:31:33 -0400, "OhioGuy" <none@none.net> wrote:

>
> Should I have done what my wife suggested - simply laid down a 10 spot and
>walked out - explaining that they need to honor what I was told on the
>phone, or I'd never set foot in their door again?
>

Walking out without paying the amount on the bill would be considered
theft, and they coudl call the police on you.

Now, did you say on the phone that you had a coupon? You don't say
that you did, only that you asked about combos.

I have found that people often do not say the correct thing when they
are orderingm and we often have to guess. For example, where I work,
we have an express special and a supreme combo. A lot of people ask
for a combo, but they are referring to the express special. I have
learned to ask the customer for clarification, but many of the newer
employees do not. They start serving the supreme until it becomes
clear that the customer does not want that meal.

I'm not saying that the clerk couldn't have been more helpful, but if
he did not know you had a coupon, he probably assumed you were
interested in any meal that had had rice/beans with an entree.

I am also puzzled that you did not confirm prices when you called. Had
you been to that restaurant before? Were all of their meals the same
price before?

I think that had you told the person you had a coupon, he would have
limited his menu options to combos that qualified. And had you asked
for prices, you would not have been surprised by the higher price.

I think that once you skip that part and place the order, you are
obligated to pay for it. You could send a letter and complain if you
really feel justified. But I think it would be wrong not to pay
properly when you didn't confirm the price in advance.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Go Online For Home Insurance Comparison
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/74ce14958e56b5da?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 2:33 am
From: trav

Go Online For Home Insurance Comparison

Going online via a specialist broker for your home insurance
comparison is the easiest and quickest way to get the best deal on
your household insurance and of course when it comes to understanding
the ins and outs of home insurance the specialist website will offer
valuable information that you can put to good use.

Home insurance comparison is one of the most sensible ways of shopping
around for the best and cheapest deal
( http://house-insurance-site.blogspot.com/2007/10/go-online-for-home-insurance-comparison.html
)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Life Insurance - Guide
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b7835a8d43e9eecf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 2:50 am
From: InsurInfo

We are living in a hefty world of pain. Who knows what will happen to
us
next?. Imagine, What will happento our family after we pass out? In
this
case Shouldn't we be more careful. It's better to take a life
insurance.
For that point, you need to know more on life insurance. I have a
website
that talks about Life Insurance and has great tips and a guild to
Guide
you to a better Life Insurance Policy. I suggest that everybody checks
it
out.

http://www.theinsurancezone.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: personal checks
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c66a055f62296a0a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 3:22 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <1192511028.256497.144580@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
bob@coolgroups.com wrote:

> Can someone recommend a cheap place to re-order personal checks on the
> net?

Do online banking and your need for personal checks and stamps will drop
considerably.

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:39 am
From: SFTV_troy

Thanatos wrote:
> "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> > "Thanatos" <atropos@mac.com> wrote in message
> > > "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> And what is the difference between Cubans "jumping ahead of the line" and
> > >> those illegals who are in this country already, "jumping ahead of the
> > >> line"?
> > >
> > > Nothing as far as I'm concerned. But there is the fact that one is
> > > illegal and the other is not...
> >
> > the only important fact is, it is our government who decides who is legal
> > and who is illegal. So, it is our government who can decide to turn what is
> > otherwise considered illegal to be legal.
>
> But they have to do it according to established law. They can't
> (legally) just pass a law declaring something to be illegal and then
> ignore it.

Cubans who escape are probably treated the same as East Europeans or
Chinese who escaped from Communism. "Political refugees" not full
citizens. The exception is made because it's a communist country, and
we treat communist countries as a special case, and also because
there's no legal process to apply for U.S. citizenship.

Other countries like Italy, or Japan, or Mexico that DO have a legal
process are expected to (1) apply for a visa (2) get accepted and (3)
enter the nation whereupon you can (4) apply for citizenship. If they
do not follow the process, then they committed an illegal act and
returned back home so they can fill-out the proper forms.

I don't object to Mexicans wanting to enter U.S. soil. I object that
they are not following the legal process of applying for a visa.

As for the vouchers issue:

(1) It's only $40.

(2) It would be too expensive to try to block illegals from getting
the coupons. The amount of manpower required to verify, "Is Greg a
citizen or an illegal?" would be WAY more expensive than the amount of
money lost. You'd probably spend 1 million just to save $500,000,
which makes no sense. Like Benjamin Franklin said, "Penny wise and
dollar foolish."

(3) I'd rather crackdown on the illegals in more-expensive areas, like
excluding them from SS, Medicare, Medicaid. And also blocking them
from acquiring a job (and arresting those with fake IDs).

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:40 am
From: SFTV_troy

(1) It's only $40.

(3) I'd rather crackdown on the illegal in more-expensive areas, like
excluding them from SS, Medicare, Medicaid. And also blocking them
from acquiring a job (and arresting those with fake IDs).

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:43 am
From: SFTV_troy

Rod Speed wrote:
> Jerry Okamura <okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com>
>
> > Does it or does it not convince some that they prefer to stay in Mexico rather than enter this country illegally?
>
> Nope, wont make any difference to that, essentially because
> working conditions in mexico are so much worse than in the
> US even if jobs are made available for them in mexico.

Why is it necessary for them to enter illegally? Why can't they
follow the process of filling-out an application, and getting a Visa?
This is what my Chinese friend did. This is what my other Japanese
friend did. I'm sure the Mexicans can do the same... just ask the
U.S. embassy for the application. Be legal, not illegal.

As for the vouchers:

(1) It's only $40.

(2) It would be too expensive to try to block illegals from getting
coupons. The amount of manpower required to verify, "Is Greg a
citizen or an illegal?" would be WAY more expensive than the amount of
money lost. You'd probably spend 1 million just to save $500,000,
which makes no sense. Like Benjamin Franklin said, "Penny wise and
dollar foolish."

(3) I'd rather crackdown on the illegal in more-expensive areas, like
excluding them from SS, Medicare, Medicaid. And also blocking them
from acquiring a job (and arresting those with fake IDs).

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 4:43 am
From: European

Acheter Acomplia en ligne

http://acomplia.easy--forex.com/acheter-acomplia-en-ligne.html

Acheter Acomplia en ligne L'Acomplia de Sanofi-Aventis est un nouveau
médicament pouvant être prescrit dans le cadre du traitement contre
l'obésité (associé à un régime adéquat et une activité physique
régulière).
Le Rimonabant (son composé actif) agit sur les récepteurs CB1 du
système endocannabinoïde responsable des sensations de satiété, de
l'équilibre énergétique et du métabolisme gluco-lipidique.
En diminuant notablement la sensation de faim, il aide les patients à
mieux contrôler et réduire leur alimentation.
À qui s'adresse-t-il? L'Acomplia est préconisé pour des patients dont
l'indice de masse corporel (IMC) dépasse 30 ou pour un IMC de 27 dans
le cadre de dyslipidémie ou de diabète de type 2.

http://acomplia.easy--forex.com/acheter-acomplia-en-ligne.html

Acheter Acomplia en ligne (rimonabant) promet les avantages doubles
pour les personnes ob?ses et pour ceux qui souhaitent s?rieusement
stopper le tabagisme.
Crainte de beaucoup de gens de mettre plus de livres apr?s le
tabagisme du cessation. De fumeurs crainte souvent de mettre plus de
livres une fois qu'elles cessent le tabagisme.
C'est les fumeurs principaux de raison redoutent et ils h?sitent ainsi
dans la prise de d?cision ? poursuivre le cessation de tabagisme.
Acomplia est efficace pour les personnes qui souhaitent perdre le
poids et stopper fumer en m?me temps.
Aucune merveille de plus en plus personnes ne font confiance ? cette m?
decine de merveille pour ses effets duels et lancent avec succ?s leur
campagne ? la parole au revoir au tabagisme et demeurent minces en m?
me temps.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Kids Toothbrush From Colgate! Choose Your Character!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/fd1f17a4cd526167?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 5:06 am
From: eHDMI

Free Kids Toothbrush From Colgate! Choose Your Character!
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Nice kids offer! Your Kids Will Love Their FREE Character Toothbrush!

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 5:26 am
From: "TheBestFreebies.com"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: The BeatlesRaritiesX
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d26010bb2ac0c082?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 6:23 am
From: Hostel

The BeatlesRaritiesX
http://www.memorybankinc.com/moodies/HELP.html
http://www.memorybankinc.com/moodies/HELP1.htm
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:55 am
From: Hostel

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:08 am
From: "Otto Bahn"

"Alan Truism" <alan.truism@yahoo.com> wrote

> >> > I'm all for water conservation, but I don't really care to get his piss on
> >> > me from urinal splash back. I now have to flush both before and after I
> >> > pee.
> >>
> >> But you don't mind getting your own piss on you from urnal splashback when
> >> you pee.
> >>
> >> Maybe you should stand back a little further, adjust your aim, or use the
> >> toilet.
> >
> > I never flush urinals. If the next guy doesn't like it,
> > he can do it. I'm not a hygiene freak, but I ain't
> > touching anything I don't have to in a pubic restroom.
> > And yes, if you are standing, you are splashing, but I
> > figure sitting is even worse, except at my house. The
> > designers of toilets and urinals do their best, but
> > there's no escaping physics.
> >
>
> What about at work?

We have auto-flush toilets.

> What do your coworkers say when they walk in after you to find
> a golden glowing bowl of piss?

You need to drink more water.

--oTTo--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dollars Stores and Liquid Soap
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f0bed274e0c47e99?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:54 am
From: Jeff

Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
> A Veteran wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnfh51nb.os0.don@manx.misty.com>,
>>
>>> Also, dollar stores are now the main place to get "heavy duty"
>>> batteries. The battery technology that has that name got its name
>>> when it was an improvement over an even weaker and more obsolete
>>> battery technology. "Heavy Duty" batteries are now cheap
>>> lightweights that underperform alkalines, and alkalines are the usual
>>> now.
>>
>>
>> our local hardware store has 'em for $.75
>
>
> Remember when Radio Shack had its "Battery Club"?
>
I guess that folded when they ran through their stock of heavy duties.

Jeff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:24 am
From: "Evelyn C. Leeper"

Jeff wrote:
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>> A Veteran wrote:
>>
>>> In article <slrnfh51nb.os0.don@manx.misty.com>,
>>>
>>>> Also, dollar stores are now the main place to get "heavy duty"
>>>> batteries. The battery technology that has that name got its name
>>>> when it was an improvement over an even weaker and more obsolete
>>>> battery technology. "Heavy Duty" batteries are now cheap
>>>> lightweights that underperform alkalines, and alkalines are the
>>>> usual now.
>>>
>>>
>>> our local hardware store has 'em for $.75
>>
>>
>> Remember when Radio Shack had its "Battery Club"?
>>
> I guess that folded when they ran through their stock of heavy duties.

Actually, I suspect it was the arrival of alkaline batteries. The ones
they used to hand out were zinc-carbon ones, which are not really made
any more so far as I can tell.

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
He who knows only his own side of the case
knows little of that. -John Stuart Mill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Havana Ginger free video clips. Movie gallery
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/b004016f5ce14b60?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 8:52 am
From: thumblogger2@gmail.com

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:24 am
From: Albert

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Thanks

Albert

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you planning for Sweetest Day this Saturday?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/045f914110927a39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:53 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 15, 3:35 pm, "OhioGuy" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I'm planning on getting my wife a box of malted milk balls - her
> favorite - and writing a poem for her. The day is about showing you
> remembered and that you appreciate the person with a small gift (usually
> edible), not about trying to get huge or expensive gifts.
>
> Just wondering what everyone else is planning on doing to show their
> appreciation for their significant other on Sweetest Day this year?
> Something sweet, I hope!

Nothing for Sweetest Day. We don't do Hallmark holidays.

I show my appreciation for my husband every single day,
as he shows his for me.

Cindy Hamilton

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Buy local produce
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e35af9f5cf8c8f29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Oct 16 2007 9:59 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Oct 15, 5:24 pm, James <jl...@idirect.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 2:36 pm, Cindy Hamilton <angelicapagane...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 13, 5:11 pm, Shadowland <saints2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > When you buy far flung produce you encourage long distance shipping.
> > > Let save all that fuel and buy local. Spending locally help your
> > > local economy also.
>
> > What the hell are we supposed to eat when the ground is frozen solid
> > for months on end?
>
> > Get a grip.
>
> What did people eat one hundred years ago, when shipping produce
> around the world was almost unheard of (with some exceptions).

What diseases did people suffer from one hundred years ago because
they couldn't get proper nutrition in the winter?

> Root vegatables like potatoes, turnips, carrots, and squash, apples
> are all cold stored and sold at reasonable prices throughout the
> winter.

I don't eat very much of any of those, except apples.

> We don't stop buying imports all together, but we do reduce during the
> winter.
>
> And of course another technique was to can (or more recently freeze)
> local produce to use all year round.

I've canned. I've frozen. I can't be bothered anymore. (Although I
might
freeze a few roma tomatoes out of my garden.)

> The reason many of our veggies are tasteless these days is they are
> picked at a point where they can be transported long distances without
> spoilage, which means in many cases they never fully ripened.
>
> I go to farmers markets when I can to get local, and it does taste
> better.

Well, so do I. But there just isn't enough capacity to feed local
produce
to everyone here all winter long.

Cindy Hamilton

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