Frugal Living: Jan 25, 2008

Friday, January 25, 2008

24 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What kind of items do you NEGOTIATE the price?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/be52178d64d74a59?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 9:46 am
From: buyer

TVs, Cameras, Appliances..............................

==============================================================================
TOPIC: money cannot buy happiness
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d2b284a9709176bd?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 9:52 am
From: Anthony Matonak

pm120566@gmail.com wrote:
> Joy begins to last when we experience that our happiness is not
> dependent on outer circumstances

Money might not buy happiness but it certainly can do away
with a lot of misery.

Anthony

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Amana Air Command 80 Gas Fired Furnace (4 blinks) troubleshooting
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/94746b0668e8b6e5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 9:52 am
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 17:15:47 GMT, "Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer
Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:51:35 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> She said the small fan wasn't running.
>
>Only in the beginning. Now both fans run continuously but the flame goes
>out, likely because of a limit being reached.
>
>Tomorrow the repairman arrives.
>
>I'm amazed, on the entire net, I can't find a single photographic
>description of how to maintain an Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired home
>closet furnace.
>
>This is shocking for home repairees.
>
>Donna

Hey, my Rheem Criterion II is short-cycling, and the troubleshooting
manual is packed away in a box somewhere.
I think it's a limit switch, maybe the flame sensor tossing an error
when it heats up too much, the thermostat, or just rapid heat loss
from the house because it's been near 0F here.
Not a big deal, but the short cycling irritates me.
I've fixed this thing before (ignitor) and the manual was useful.
Couldn't find anything on the net, unless I had a HVAC license or
whatever. I think the repair industry has the manuals locked down.
Kind of makes sense from the safety aspect that they typical homeowner
could get him and his family killed messing with the furnace.
Of course we're not typical, are we?
Anyway, you can find a dealer to get your manuals, but the net is a
poor resource for them.

--Vic

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:51 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Maybe the folks who build them would prefer that only the trained techs work
on them?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org
.

"Donna Ohl, Grady Volunteer Coordinator" <donna.ohl@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
message news:7Pomj.1616$Ej5.538@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...
On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 01:51:35 -0500, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> She said the small fan wasn't running.

Only in the beginning. Now both fans run continuously but the flame goes
out, likely because of a limit being reached.

Tomorrow the repairman arrives.

I'm amazed, on the entire net, I can't find a single photographic
description of how to maintain an Amana Air Command 80 gas-fired home
closet furnace.

This is shocking for home repairees.

Donna

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why do people stay in overpriced real estate markets?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/56d80a4d61e1222e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:13 am
From: SMS

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

> What kind of shortsightedness has overtaken these millions of people?
> I think of the amounts of interest being paid, the taxes, the
> insurance, the riskiness of such over-the-top investments, and I shake
> my head in disbelief. Perhaps the mantra of real estate should be
> changed from location, location, location to stupidity, stupidity,
> stupidity.

Many are in complete denial that their area could ever experience a
significant decline in prices. I see this with people in my own extended
family. One sold a gawd-awful condo in a huge apartment to condo
conversion complex in San Bruno that was in poor condition. She made a
nice profit nevertheless, and would have been better off renting a
rent-controlled apartment in San Francisco, near her job, at least for
five years or so until the market bottomed out. But she was convinced by
another family member of how important it was to own real estate, how
prices would never fall, etc. She bought a triplex with two other family
members. One unit is to be rented, but one of the owners is so picky
about renters, and expects to receive such a high rent, that it remains
empty.

You forget one other thing. In order to have even a semi-affordable
mortgage payment, you have to put down a big down payment. Don't forget
the lost interest on this capital. Another group of extended family
members just bought a duplex as an investment property, in a 1031
exchange. I told them to just pay the tax on the gain and get out of the
market for now. Instead they put down a huge down payment, over $500K,
on a $1.2 million duplex, and now claim to be cash-flow positive because
the rent is covering the $4500/month mortgage. Of course it was a
terrible investment, they are cash flow negative after property taxes,
insurance, and maintenance, and they have lost the interest income on
$500,000, the value of the property is falling, the property is run down
and requires a lot of repairs, that they don't know how to do
themselves, so they are spending a lot on contractors.

> It isn't that we have a housing and mortgage crisis that occurred out
> of thin air, we have had a fever of speculation that is finally
> breaking.

What's going to aggravate it even more are the government attempts to
bail out the people that made the bad decisions. They need to just let
the market come back to reality on its own. It took 20 years in Japan
for the market to bottom out.

However some people _stay_ in overpriced markets that would never come
in as new buyers at current prices. Personally I'd cash out and leave,
but the spousal unit wants to be near her family. If I bought my house
at current value, I wouldn't and couldn't buy it. I'd have a $7000/month
mortgage and $1200/month property tax bill. I remember when we bought
it, and I told a friend in Florida how much it was, and she thought we
must be moving into some sort of mansion, ha, ha. Where I live, the
mantra is "schools, schools, schools." Most cities in the area have
pretty poor public schools, but my area is famous for good schools. The
extra you pay in your mortgage is offset by the lack of need to pay
private school tuition, which can run to $10,000 a year per child, and
is not tax-deductible.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:21 am
From: SMS

Coffee's For Closers wrote:

> There is your explanation right there, in that word -
> "speculation." There are folks out there who simply cannot
> comprehend the value of a house or condo going down. Or staying
> stagnant, while inflation causes that amount of dollars to be
> worth less. They absolutely assume that real estate is a
> guaranteed, quick, easy, huge profit-maker.
>
> Lots of people cannot see the overall big picture, because their
> vision is blocked by the dollar-signs rolling up in their eyes.
>
> And they want to buy NOW, because they don't have the patience or
> attention span to think and act in terms of economic cycles
> spanning several years or more.
>
> If you try to warn them otherwise, they refuse to listen.

Oy, can you talk to some of my relatives?!

> There is also snobbery. Some people don't have much to feel good
> about within themselves. While, at the same time, they have a
> craving to show superiority. So, they buy property (maybe the
> cheapest apartment for which they can barely qualify on an ARM
> time-bomb mortgage...) in order to feel cool, and to look down on
> lowly tenants.

Very well stated.

Every time a developer comes into my city and wants to get some land
rezoned for high-density condos, they trot out the excuse that some of
the units will be for "below-market-rate" housing.

When the city council and planning commission, which are owned by
developers, try to approve the rezoning, they always bring up that it
must be approved so that lower income people can buy property in the
city. We're not talking about $80,000 condos, we're talking about
$350,000-600,000 being "below-market-rate." An equivalent quality
apartment would be about $1500/month, versus a $3000-4000/month mortgage
payment, plus property taxes, plus association fees. There is no shame
in renting while you save for the down payment to buy a property, if
that's what you really want to do.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:25 am
From: SMS

Beachcomber wrote:

> Everyone sort of gets into the act to encourage this "ownership at any
> price mentality"... real estate agents don't want to sell you a house,
> they want you to buy into having a home in a "neighborhood",
> regardless of what you think you can afford. Appraisers and home
> inspectors have a vested interest in turnover.

The appraisers were pressured into high appraisals at the risk of not
being hired for more appraisals.

However in my experience, home inspectors do not intentionally lie about
defects. They are normally hired by the buyer, and have no vested
interest in overlooking defects. In fact, they would be liable if
obvious defects that they should have seen later showed up.
Unfortunately they do miss a lot of stuff that is hidden, and that shows
up only after a few years.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: inexpensive checks- reorder
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f98c585ad3eb69c6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:13 am
From: "misterfact@yahoo.com"

checksunlimited.com
>
> checkgallery.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 12:04 pm
From: SMS

misterfact@yahoo.com wrote:
> checksunlimited.com
>> checkgallery.com

Costco has the cheapest checks (if you're a member).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Seen those coupons for a Quizno's "Low Cal' Flatbread Sandwich? Think
Again
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/90037a1f4ea09ec6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:35 am
From: Cindy Hamilton

On Jan 24, 3:37 pm, Dave <djense...@cox.net> wrote:

> The ad drew me into my local Quizno's franchise, where I ordered the
> above sandwich and then sat there in disbelief looking at the tiny
> little thing that I was served. Yes, the sandwich you GET might be
> only 200 calories. The guy making the Sammie used what appeared to be
> a teaspoon to dole out one level spoonful of a lettuce and tomato mix,
> on top of what were 6 or 7 small bites of chicken. All of it very
> carefully measured onto a tiny round piece of bread. (The sodium
> content of the balsamic dressing was off the charts, giving this
> little appetizer sized "meal" an overly-salty and unhealthy flavor.)

Dave, 200 calories worth of anything besides celery is going to be a
very
small amount. There are 70 calories in single ordinary slice of white
bread. You just weren't using your common sense.

Please allow me a little rhetorical hyperbole on that "anything but
celery".
Of course many vegetables have negligible amounts of calories.

Cindy Hamilton

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 10:41 am
From: SMS

Dave wrote:

The photos of the "Sammie" intentionally lack any object that would give
perspective to their actual size.

In my area, the best deals are on Vietnamese sandwiches, though those
have gone up in price as well. At Lee's Sandwiches, they are served on a
10" freshly baked baguette, and they are under $3. However they really
overcharge for their famous Vietnamese iced coffee with condensed milk.
People started just asking for water so they stopped giving out water.
"http://www.leessandwiches.com/"

A lot of Quizno's franchises are struggling. I know someone that has two
stores in Northern California, and he's at least breaking even, but many
of the stores are in poor locations. I.e. the one closest to me is in a
heavily Indian and Chinese neighborhood. The Chinese don't like a lot of
cheese, and don't eat sandwiches for dinner no what, and aren't that
fond of them for lunch either. Most of the Indian's don't eat beef, and
many are complete vegetarians. Also, there are many ethnic restaurants
around that are a lot less than the cost of a Quizno's meal.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much does it cost you to live a day in your life?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4df06601e0a3cd77?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 11:29 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Jan 24, 3:39 pm, clams_casino <PeterGrif...@DrunkinClam.com> wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> >On Jan 23, 9:12 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>So how little can you live on..$1000...$100...$10...$1?
>
> >>And to do it every day.
>
> >>So what is your minimum cost of living?
>
> >>Considering today's events, you may need to answer that question
> >>sooner than you think.
>
> >>TMT
>
> >I noticed that no one has mentioned their daily costs for taxes.
>
> >Property taxes, sales taxes, income taxes...they all add up.
>
> >Doesn't anyone pay taxes?
>
> >TMT
>
> According to Faux News & the Rush sheep, only the wealthy pay taxes.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And according to Faux News and the Rush sheep, the universe revolves
around Bush.

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 5:24 pm
From: "Lou"

"val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:26b876a1-f91f-4e23-ba4e-265f90bfd37d@i12g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 23, 8:37 pm, "Scott Fargham" <scotty...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > "val189" <gwehr...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >
> >
news:06beadde-6e13-4297-b768-943f2c6f33d2@q39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Jan 23, 10:12 am, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> So how little can you live on..$1000...$100...$10...$1?
> >
> > >> And to do it every day.
> >
> > >> So what is your minimum cost of living?
> >
> > >> Considering today's events, you may need to answer that question
> > >> sooner than you think.
> >
> > >> TMT
> >
> > > Impossible to answer. There's are many levels of living costs between
> > > my present living standard and taking my place under the overpass.
> > > A better question might be - what did you spend per person per day
> > > last year?

That's a pretty tough call as well. For instance, under that criterion, the
year we bought our current house, our per person per day spending was in the
neighborhood of $450. We've been paying for that house ever since (mortgage
ya know), but we spent the money all at once. If we take the stance that
the interest on the mortgae was spent that year as well - after all, that's
when we agreed to incur the bill - our per person per day spending that year
was somewhere around $1,100 - $1,200

Maybe I didn't spend anything in dollar terms, just exchanged one asset for
another. After all, when I sold my first house, I got back all the dollars
I'd laid out for mortgage payments over the time I'd owned it, and the same
thing could happen with this house. I won't know until, when, and if I
sell.

I think that unless you are living under that overpass, figuring out your
daily cost of living is pretty difficult. Large but infrequent costs don't
usually just spring up suddenly out of nowhere - if you need a new roof
tomorrow, it's because you've been living under the old one for 20-odd
years, slowly "spending" that asset just as surely as you've been eating the
food in the refrigerator. Counting the cost of food in your daily expenses
and not the eventual cost of a new roof is somewhat inconsistent. And if
you've prudently put money aside during those years to pay for the eventual
new roof, that money isn't "savings", you're just buying the new roof a
shingle at a time instead of all at once.

Adding up the grocery bill and the gas bill and the electric bill and such
is trivally easy, but most of my (and probably your) spending isn't so
obvious, and determing how much it costs per day may not be possible for
years.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bac73423740be047?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 11:38 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Smoke 'em, get fired
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/23830b73fe725e90?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 12:18 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

> You smokers can't even complain. After all, its a private business and
> we all know how you respect the right of private businesses to operate
> as their management sees fit.

And in the case of most employers, it's a private business that also happens
to be your health insurer (or at least, the premium payer.) Which is of
course why nobody should be surprised at this. It's not hard to understand
why smoking would be grounds for denying you health insurance - but because
of the way people insist on employers also being health insurers, it denies
you a job as well.

Expect this trend to continue. Maybe someday, people will realize the folly
of buying health insurance from the same company they sell labor to instead
of buying and owning it separately like they do every other type of
insurance.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 12:26 pm
From:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
news:479a0fba$0$47157$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
>
> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:srhi-00552B.08192425012008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>> Here's an interesting story ...
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/business/08smoking.html
>>
>> A company who is among the first employers to test its employees to see
>> if they smoke. Any nicotine addicts are fired.
>
> I don't support this at all, but I do believe that smoking should be
> banned in all public areas, both indoors AND outdoors. It does no good to
> ban smoking indoors in public buildings such as restaurants, etc. That
> just means that non-smokers have to walk through a thick wall of toxic
> fumes when entering and exiting the building. -Dave

Well...I would NEVER, EVER hire a smoker for my business. We make custom
clothing and there is no way I would ever allow a smoker anywhere near
fabric. I won't even hire non-smokers who live with smokers. The smell of
even second-hand smoke is pervasive and clings to fabric. Yuck. When we
state "all garments are made in a smoke-free studio in the USA", we mean it.

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 11:53 am
From: Coffee's For Closers

In article
<479a0fba$0$47157$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>,
noway@nohow.not says...

> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:srhi-00552B.08192425012008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> > Here's an interesting story ...
> >
> > http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/business/08smoking.html
> >
> > A company who is among the first employers to test its employees to see
> > if they smoke. Any nicotine addicts are fired.

> I don't support this at all,

Sorry, but smoking is NOT on the short list of
"Don't Discriminate" factors for employers. Even if the smoking
is done while off-duty. So, most likely, any workers who object
to such a policy have zero legal recourse, except to find
someplace else to work.

In "at-will" employment jurisdictions, there is already the
freedom for a business to fire an employee "for any reason,
or no reason." As long as there isn't any clear evidence that
the motivation was on the short list of "don't discriminate"
factors.

The boss cannot say, "You're fired because of your skin colour."

But s/he CAN legally say, "I woke up in a bad mood, and decided
to fire the first employee that I saw in the office today.
That's you."

It has been that way for a long time.

Personally, I would prefer to hire a non-smoker, if all other
qualities were equal. I would want my employees to focus on
work, NOT on jonesing for their next cancer stick. And I don't
appreciate the stench emanating from their clothes/hair/body.
Including if they deal with customers. And I don't want them
flicking their butts everywhere, as many smokers habitually do,
as part of their ritual. And I don't want deal with their higher
levels of sick-days, and insurance claims.

> but I do believe that smoking should be banned
> in all public areas, both indoors AND outdoors. It does no good to ban
> smoking indoors in public buildings such as restaurants, etc. That just
> means that non-smokers have to walk through a thick wall of toxic fumes when
> entering and exiting the building.

Part of the justification for such laws, like banning smoking in
pubs and restaurants, is about the folks who work inside for
hours every day. Their conditions are better, when the smokers
are banished to standing outside the door, pathetically huddling
in cold and rain.

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 12:37 pm
From: Vic Smith

On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:26:55 -0500, <h> wrote:

>
>"Dave" <noway@nohow.not> wrote in message
>news:479a0fba$0$47157$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
>>
>> "Shawn Hirn" <srhi@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:srhi-00552B.08192425012008@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>>> Here's an interesting story ...
>>>
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/business/08smoking.html
>>>
>>> A company who is among the first employers to test its employees to see
>>> if they smoke. Any nicotine addicts are fired.
>>
>> I don't support this at all, but I do believe that smoking should be
>> banned in all public areas, both indoors AND outdoors. It does no good to
>> ban smoking indoors in public buildings such as restaurants, etc. That
>> just means that non-smokers have to walk through a thick wall of toxic
>> fumes when entering and exiting the building. -Dave
>
>Well...I would NEVER, EVER hire a smoker for my business. We make custom
>clothing and there is no way I would ever allow a smoker anywhere near
>fabric. I won't even hire non-smokers who live with smokers. The smell of
>even second-hand smoke is pervasive and clings to fabric. Yuck. When we
>state "all garments are made in a smoke-free studio in the USA", we mean it.
>
Well la de da da. I wouldn't buy any clothing making such a claim.
Couldn't afford it anyway with smokes costing what they do.

--Vic

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 5:01 pm
From: Seerialmom

On Jan 25, 5:19 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Here's an interesting story ...
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/business/08smoking.html
>
> A company who is among the first employers to test its employees to see
> if they smoke. Any nicotine addicts are fired. This policy bound to be
> an increasing trend in light of the fact that smokers take more work
> breaks and sick days then their non-smoking co-workers, so they get less
> work done.
>
> Smoke 'em if ya got 'em, but not if you want to keep your job there.
>
> You smokers can't even complain. After all, its a private business and
> we all know how you respect the right of private businesses to operate
> as their management sees fit.

What about those who have quit "smoking" and are using nicotine
patches or gum? They aren't taking more breaks or sick days? And
what happened to the old "addiction is a disease" concept. But it is
a fallacy that smokers get less work done, there have been many
studies that show smokers "reward" themselves throughout the day after
performing tasks. Believe me, I'm not saying smoking is a good thing,
I just think it's mean spirited to take someone's livelyhood away
based on a test.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 5:14 pm
From: Terry Lomax

On Jan 25, 7:19 am, Shawn Hirn <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Here's an interesting story ...
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/business/08smoking.html
>
> A company who is among the first employers to test its employees to see
> if they smoke. Any nicotine addicts are fired. This policy bound to be
> an increasing trend in light of the fact that smokers take more work
> breaks and sick days then their non-smoking co-workers, so they get less
> work done.
>
> Smoke 'em if ya got 'em, but not if you want to keep your job there.
>
> You smokers can't even complain. After all, its a private business and
> we all know how you respect the right of private businesses to operate
> as their management sees fit.

Great idea. That goes against the general trend. I would definitely
apply for such a company if one existed in the region where I live.
Illinois recently enacted an "anti-smoking" law, with smokers supposed
to stay a certain distance from building entrances. I like the rule
in the town (Boulder CO?) that doesn't even allow smoking outdoors.

In most companies, smokers are given preferential treatment. Managers
are much more likely to smoke, so managers favor their fellow
smokers. While the real (non-smoking) workers work, smokers are out
on their long smoke breaks, networking, gossipping, climbing up the
corporate ladder. At work, it's not what you do, it's who you know.
Because smokers spend most of their time socializing, they know all
the gossip and can use it to advance their careers.

At least one company in Germany only hires smokers and would fire
anyone who quits smoking.

I wouldn't purchase any product from a company that allows smoking.
Even if smoking isn't allowed indoors, the stench of the smoker will
infect any item in the store. I can smell a smoker 100 feet away,
even if he (or more likely she, as in the USA, women smoke more than
men do) was there 10+ minutes ago. Smokers STINK!

Where I work, I've often had to go through a barricade of secondhand
smoke at the entrance. I told the general manager but he didn't do
anything. He admitted I shouldn't have to inhale the secondhand
smoke, but he's overly sympathetic to smokers, having been a smoker
himself in the past.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 5:45 pm
From: iwenttoccc@gmail.com

This is very very wrong! We are now treating smokers like they are
criminals because they choose to do something that is not good for
them and everyone thinks they can interfere because they don't agree
with that choice. The person below me argued "It's not hard to
understand why smoking would be grounds for denying you health
insurance" and I agree but what about Obese and overweight people?
aren't they unhealthy too? lets deny them a job too I mean there
making unhealthy choices and hell what about the people that drink
alcohol there bound to get liver cancer lets deny them a job because
were not paying their premiums. Also they say smokers aren't hard
workers they take to many breaks and sick days and get less work done.
Think about the overweight people how did they get overweight in the
first place? The problem with our society today is we think we can
control what other people do if they are not doing it the way we want
thats why so many other countries hate us.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are you interested in working from home?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/5fae7ce5fab925af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 2:44 pm
From: Cheapo Groovo

Get paid $800 a month working from home. Tasks are both Internet and
nom-Internet based. People of all ages needed.

http://www.cheapogroovo.com for details.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do you know what a NEGOTI-AUCTION is?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/627e30bd3c5dbfcb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 5:26 pm
From: buyer

It is a three step process:

1. Buyers of same/similar items form a CLUB.
2. Invite sellers to bid on the club items - A REVERSE AUCTION.
3. Once the sellers bid, the moderator NEGOTIATES with the sellers
for a better price.

A new website with these features is being launched on 1/29/2008.

Wait for our announcement............

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Money making scam
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/279706c69562396c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 6:20 pm
From: clams_casino

Arbiz Moneymaker wrote:

>Read only if u r serious about money making!!!
>
>

But I know of no place I can cash a check in rupees.

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25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap Fashion Shoes & Clothing & Mobile Phones & Handbags Wholesale on

www.fashion-sky.com
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/db8fc47320f072b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 25 2008 12:03 am
From: fashion-sky.002@hotmail.com