Frugal Living: Jun 7, 2010

Monday, June 7, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: It wont stay shut by itself
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b4b28ebf5a595a15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 10:52 am
From: Whiskers

["Followup-To:" header set to 24hoursupport.helpdesk.]
On 2010-06-06, Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:13:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher ǝʇoɹʍ:
>> Jeff The Drunk wrote:
>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:06:09 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>> "john hamilton" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:hugc8b$uec$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> Have tried using the strongest cuboard magnet I can find (In north
>>>>> London u.k.), but if the wind picks up surprisingly it will just not
>>>>> hold. [...]

To the OP: why not install a simple latch on the door? (The sort meant
for house doors, of course!).

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 2:21 pm
From: "newshound"

> Have tried using the strongest cuboard magnet I can find (In north London
> u.k.),

eBay for Rare Earth Magnets, they come in all shapes and sizes including
disks with holes which can be screwed in place. I have them on an awkward
cupboard door which won't hold on normal latches.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much power does a 120v 15A lighted switch use anyway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3870703c69659a21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 11:07 am
From: SMS

On 17/05/10 6:53 PM, Glenda Copeland wrote:
> Just bought a dozen Leviton decora single pole 15A 120VAC lighted rocker
> switches (model 5611, aka model 105-05611-21S).
>
> Nothing on the box says how much power each of the lighted bulb uses when
> the switch is in the off position.
>
> Do you know how much power a lighted switch uses?

These have an NE-2 neon bulb which draws about 0.6mA, so at 120V it's
around 0.07 watts. So 1000 lighted switches would be a little less than
a 75 watt light bulb.

Suffice it to say, the watt-hours you'd save with even 50 unlighted
versus lighted switches would barely be measurable, even over the course
of a year.

Some people unplug things like phone chargers when not in use. I.e. an
iPhone charger draws 0.2W even when the phone is not connected, close to
3X what a lighted switch draws, but still a trivial amount.

You can buy power strips with individual switches to avoid unplugging
wall warts all the time. But you'd probably never recover the cost of
the power strip in saved electricity.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 12:07 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <4c0d3566$0$1620$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>, SMS wrote:
>On 17/05/10 6:53 PM, Glenda Copeland wrote:
<I snip a bit to edit for space>

>> Do you know how much power a lighted switch uses?
>
>These have an NE-2 neon bulb which draws about 0.6mA, so at 120V it's
>around 0.07 watts. So 1000 lighted switches would be a little less than
> a 75 watt light bulb.

My experience with a lighted switch is that its neon lamp is either
an A1C ("mini-NE-2H") or a C2A (NE-2H). Those get more like 2 mA.

>Suffice it to say, the watt-hours you'd save with even 50 unlighted
>versus lighted switches would barely be measurable, even over the course
>of a year.

One of these can easily consume 2 KWH per year.

>Some people unplug things like phone chargers when not in use. I.e. an
>iPhone charger draws 0.2W even when the phone is not connected, close to
>3X what a lighted switch draws, but still a trivial amount.

>You can buy power strips with individual switches to avoid unplugging
>wall warts all the time. But you'd probably never recover the cost of
>the power strip in saved electricity.

Plenty of wall warts consume a watt or two even when no load is
connected. As in basically all of the older technology ones that weigh
more and get warm to the touch even when operated unloaded. That is
fairly easily 8 to 16 KWH per year for each one.

--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are currently your best saving tips ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a23335cb8985c73c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 11:28 am
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> Another obvious example is student loans that can give you
>> the qualifications to get a much better job and it generally
>> doesnt make sense to save for that sort of cost.

> Rod I'm on the fence on student loans

> I have student loans but looking back almost think it best to "pay as you go".

> what you say?

Your situation was rather different. You already had a
decent well paid job and just wanted something different.

Its different with a kid just out of school. It doesnt necessarily
make much sense for one of those to attempt to save up for
the cost of say medical qualification. It makes more sense to
use a student loan to get qualified and start practicing and
start earning a decent income and then pay off the student loan.

What makes sense does vary with the sort of qualifications
you decide you want. Particularly with engineering, there
have always been some jobs that not only allow you to
qualify while working, actually encourage you to do that.
That doesnt work with say qualifying as a doctor tho.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:46 pm
From: "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

On Mon, 07 Jun 2010 11:04:29 -0500, me@privacy.net wrote:

>keith <keithw86@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Student loans are the means to higher priced education, which is why
>>the Demonicrats love them so. Note: Higher price <> better
>
>engineering school here.... for me

Ok? That doesn't change the facts, other than you'll have some chance of
paying it back.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:14 pm
From: "Lou"

<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:a0do06tpff9n2ljfuhrhht8nmfpjh8sgvk@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 18:10:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
> <the-daring-dufas@peckerhead.net> wrote:
>
> >On 6/6/2010 6:03 PM, Lou wrote:
> >> "The Daring Dufas"<the-daring-dufas@peckerhead.net> wrote in message
> >> news:hugng7$km6$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> On 6/6/2010 10:58 AM, Lou wrote:
> >>>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:hufdel$26s$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>>>> On 06/05/10 20:53, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "marco polo"<markphd21@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
news:d5334a06-add5-44fd-ad9d-9dee8bce3f3c@x27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>> in the long run,
> >>>>>>> you are much much better off increasing your income
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> i know it's less fun, but just think about it:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> increase your income, say $1 an hour,
> >>>>>>> or $10 a week, or $25 a month, or whatever,
> >>>>>>> and see what you have at the end of the year,
> >>>>>>> vs saving $1 here or $5 there, is clearly better
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> marc
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sounds great, but not always easily done. With the present
economy,
> >>>>>> employers have cut OT, cut wages, cut hours, and much of the side
job
> >>>> part
> >>>>>> time stuff has dried up. Increasing income may be better, but
saving
> >>>> money
> >>>>>> is the only way for millions right now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> AND the money you save isn't taxable!
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, that depends. When I lived in Georgia, money sitting in a bank
> >>>> account was taxable. If you had an account, you owed tax on the
balance
> >> and
> >>>> had to pay. After a year went by and tax time rolled around again,
you
> >> had
> >>>> to pay tax on whatever was in that account again, even if you hadn't
> >> touched
> >>>> the account at all. In essence, you paid tax on the same money again
> >> and
> >>>> again, for as long as you had it.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Georgia? The state in the U.S.A. or the country of Georgia?
> >>>
> >> Georgia, the state in the U.S.A. All real and personal property in the
> >> state is taxable unless specifically exempted by law. At the time I
lived
> >> there, money in a bank account was not exempt.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Here in Alabamastan, I believe a bank account would be taxed if it
> >earned interest.
>
> Only the interest is taxed, not the principal. That's a normal capital
gains
> tax. Taxing the principal is *not* normal. Personal property is taxed in
> some states but I've never heard of cash being considered personal
property.

What would you call it? Property is generally classified into two types -
real and personal. Real property is land, usually things growing on it
(annual crops in at least some states are not considered real property) and
buildings. All property that is not real property is personal property.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:17 pm
From: "Lou"

"Ron" <BigELilE05@msn.com> wrote in message
news:06945bfa-75c2-42bb-bd23-5f4a1ab9106f@i28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

(lotsastuff snipped)

> Georgia, the state in the U.S.A. All real and personal property in the
> state is taxable unless specifically exempted by law. At the time I lived
> there, money in a bank account was not exempt.

When did you live there?

Well, I've lived in New Jersey around 30 years, so it must be 31 years or so
ago.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:18 pm
From: "Lou"

<krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:enbo06tkm62npcn4acmjn8l4297d98nfab@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:52:38 -0400, "Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
> >news:p2mn0659alncvvct1r39aokfr3pqlc30q1@4ax.com...
> >> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:58:51 -0400, "Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:hufdel$26s$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> >> On 06/05/10 20:53, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > "marco polo"<markphd21@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >
> >>
>news:d5334a06-add5-44fd-ad9d-9dee8bce3f3c@x27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> >> >> .
> >> >> >> in the long run,
> >> >> >> you are much much better off increasing your income
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> i know it's less fun, but just think about it:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> increase your income, say $1 an hour,
> >> >> >> or $10 a week, or $25 a month, or whatever,
> >> >> >> and see what you have at the end of the year,
> >> >> >> vs saving $1 here or $5 there, is clearly better
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> marc
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sounds great, but not always easily done. With the present
economy,
> >> >> > employers have cut OT, cut wages, cut hours, and much of the side
job
> >> >part
> >> >> > time stuff has dried up. Increasing income may be better, but
saving
> >> >money
> >> >> > is the only way for millions right now.
> >> >>
> >> >> AND the money you save isn't taxable!
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Well, that depends. When I lived in Georgia, money sitting in a bank
> >> >account was taxable. If you had an account, you owed tax on the
balance
> >and
> >> >had to pay. After a year went by and tax time rolled around again,
you
> >had
> >> >to pay tax on whatever was in that account again, even if you hadn't
> >touched
> >> >the account at all. In essence, you paid tax on the same money again
and
> >> >again, for as long as you had it.
> >>
> >> I've *never* heard of such a thing. Do you have a citation?
> >
> >I'm reporting my experience. I don't have citations for my experience.
> >Possibly, I could dig out my tax returns from that time and post them
> >online, but it's not worth my trouble.
>
> No, I wouldn't expect that, just a pointer so I can see how stupid your
> politicians really are. DO you know what the tax was called? ...and I
kinda
> like Atlanta but maybe it's close enough. ;-)

Don't remember what it was called - as I've said elsewhere it was 30 plus
years ago.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:24 pm
From: "Lou"

"Ron" <BigELilE05@msn.com> wrote in message
news:cd172b93-0981-41cd-9503-0f140c04b8cd@z8g2000yqz.googlegroups.com...

>If we are talking about Georgia, USA, it isn't true. It's not income.
>
>Most of my family has lived there their entire life. My father who is
>74 yrs old has never heard of such a thing, and he has lived there all
>but about 12 yrs of his life.
>
>You pay taxes on the interest only.

I don't know how he could never have heard of such a thing - as I recall, it
was on the last page of the state income tax form. You paid taxes on the
interest as part of the state income tax, but on the last page, you paid tax
on the principal. But for all I know, the tax was a county assessment - I
only lived there 15 months.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:20 pm
From: aemeijers

Lou wrote:
> <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
> news:enbo06tkm62npcn4acmjn8l4297d98nfab@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 18:52:38 -0400, "Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
>>> news:p2mn0659alncvvct1r39aokfr3pqlc30q1@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:58:51 -0400, "Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "The Real Bev" <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hufdel$26s$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> On 06/05/10 20:53, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "marco polo"<markphd21@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>
>> news:d5334a06-add5-44fd-ad9d-9dee8bce3f3c@x27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> in the long run,
>>>>>>>> you are much much better off increasing your income
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i know it's less fun, but just think about it:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> increase your income, say $1 an hour,
>>>>>>>> or $10 a week, or $25 a month, or whatever,
>>>>>>>> and see what you have at the end of the year,
>>>>>>>> vs saving $1 here or $5 there, is clearly better
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> marc
>>>>>>> Sounds great, but not always easily done. With the present
> economy,
>>>>>>> employers have cut OT, cut wages, cut hours, and much of the side
> job
>>>>> part
>>>>>>> time stuff has dried up. Increasing income may be better, but
> saving
>>>>> money
>>>>>>> is the only way for millions right now.
>>>>>> AND the money you save isn't taxable!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well, that depends. When I lived in Georgia, money sitting in a bank
>>>>> account was taxable. If you had an account, you owed tax on the
> balance
>>> and
>>>>> had to pay. After a year went by and tax time rolled around again,
> you
>>> had
>>>>> to pay tax on whatever was in that account again, even if you hadn't
>>> touched
>>>>> the account at all. In essence, you paid tax on the same money again
> and
>>>>> again, for as long as you had it.
>>>> I've *never* heard of such a thing. Do you have a citation?
>>> I'm reporting my experience. I don't have citations for my experience.
>>> Possibly, I could dig out my tax returns from that time and post them
>>> online, but it's not worth my trouble.
>> No, I wouldn't expect that, just a pointer so I can see how stupid your
>> politicians really are. DO you know what the tax was called? ...and I
> kinda
>> like Atlanta but maybe it's close enough. ;-)
>
> Don't remember what it was called - as I've said elsewhere it was 30 plus
> years ago.
>
>
IIRC, it was 'intangibles tax'.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:29 pm
From: "Lou"

"Tony Sivori" <TonySivori@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.06.07.05.18.20.351494@yahoo.com...
> Colbyt wrote:
> >
> > Contrary to what someone one else posted this may be true. Kentucky had
> > an intangible property tax like that until a few years ago.
>
> I've lived in and filed taxes in Kentucky for many years. I've never paid
> the first penny of tax on any bank account balance.
>
I don't anything about taxes in Kentucky, but whether or not you actually
paid a certain tax doesn't really tell us anything about whether or not such
a tax existed. It doesn't even tell us if you had a bank balance to pay
taxes on.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:27 pm
From: "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 21:14:31 -0400, "Lou" <lpogoda@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
><krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
>news:a0do06tpff9n2ljfuhrhht8nmfpjh8sgvk@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 18:10:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
>> <the-daring-dufas@peckerhead.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On 6/6/2010 6:03 PM, Lou wrote:
>> >> "The Daring Dufas"<the-daring-dufas@peckerhead.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:hugng7$km6$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> >>> On 6/6/2010 10:58 AM, Lou wrote:
>> >>>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>>> news:hufdel$26s$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> >>>>> On 06/05/10 20:53, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> "marco polo"<markphd21@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>news:d5334a06-add5-44fd-ad9d-9dee8bce3f3c@x27g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> >>>>>>> .
>> >>>>>>> in the long run,
>> >>>>>>> you are much much better off increasing your income
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> i know it's less fun, but just think about it:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> increase your income, say $1 an hour,
>> >>>>>>> or $10 a week, or $25 a month, or whatever,
>> >>>>>>> and see what you have at the end of the year,
>> >>>>>>> vs saving $1 here or $5 there, is clearly better
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> marc
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Sounds great, but not always easily done. With the present
>economy,
>> >>>>>> employers have cut OT, cut wages, cut hours, and much of the side
>job
>> >>>> part
>> >>>>>> time stuff has dried up. Increasing income may be better, but
>saving
>> >>>> money
>> >>>>>> is the only way for millions right now.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> AND the money you save isn't taxable!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Well, that depends. When I lived in Georgia, money sitting in a bank
>> >>>> account was taxable. If you had an account, you owed tax on the
>balance
>> >> and
>> >>>> had to pay. After a year went by and tax time rolled around again,
>you
>> >> had
>> >>>> to pay tax on whatever was in that account again, even if you hadn't
>> >> touched
>> >>>> the account at all. In essence, you paid tax on the same money again
>> >> and
>> >>>> again, for as long as you had it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Georgia? The state in the U.S.A. or the country of Georgia?
>> >>>
>> >> Georgia, the state in the U.S.A. All real and personal property in the
>> >> state is taxable unless specifically exempted by law. At the time I
>lived
>> >> there, money in a bank account was not exempt.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >Here in Alabamastan, I believe a bank account would be taxed if it
>> >earned interest.
>>
>> Only the interest is taxed, not the principal. That's a normal capital
>gains
>> tax. Taxing the principal is *not* normal. Personal property is taxed in
>> some states but I've never heard of cash being considered personal
>property.
>
>What would you call it? Property is generally classified into two types -
>real and personal. Real property is land, usually things growing on it
>(annual crops in at least some states are not considered real property) and
>buildings. All property that is not real property is personal property.

Investments aren't generally considered either.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: using bricks to replace driveway?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/f9b05e9d50972b81?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 11:33 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Ohioguy wrote:
> We have an asphalt drive, about 20 feet long, and maybe 18 feet
> wide, which needs replaced.

> I've seen a number of brick streets in the old sections of town, and
> have wondered how in the world they have lasted as long as they did.
> I've considered renting a jackhammer, then laying down a fine layer of
> gravel, and placing brick for our front drive.

> However, Lowe's and the other big hardware stores I've checked only seem to have brick with holes in it.

Yeah, those are the modern extruded bricks.

Those places do have pavers with no holes tho.

> Anybody ever done a project of this size on their own?

Yep, plenty do. Its not that hard.

> I've been quoted between $2k and $4k to have the whole thing replaced with concrete.

I prefer that myself, particularly for working on the car etc.

You may or may not be allowed to work on the car tho,
some US home owner fascist groups dont allow that.

> I could probably cold patch and then seal it for $400.

> Anybody have an idea how much it might cost to do with brick?

Price the pavers.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 3:48 pm
From: a real cheapskate

On Jun 7, 2:33�pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ohioguy wrote:
> > We have an asphalt drive, about 20 feet long, and maybe 18 feet
> > wide, which needs replaced.
> > � I've seen a number of brick streets in the old sections of town, and
> > have wondered how in the world they have lasted as long as they did.
> > I've considered renting a jackhammer, then laying down a fine layer of
> > gravel, and placing brick for our front drive.
> > � However, Lowe's and the other big hardware stores I've checked only seem to have brick with holes in it.
>
> Yeah, those are the modern extruded bricks.
>
> Those places do have pavers with no holes tho.
>
> > � Anybody ever done a project of this size on their own?
>
> Yep, plenty do. Its not that hard.
>
> > I've been quoted between $2k and $4k to have the whole thing replaced with concrete.
>
> I prefer that myself, particularly for working on the car etc.
>
> You may or may not be allowed to work on the car tho,
> some US home owner fascist groups dont allow that.
>
> > I could probably cold patch and then seal it for $400.
> > � Anybody have an idea how much it might cost to do with brick?
>
> Price the pavers.

brick streets in citys tend to be brick over a thick concrete base,
like 1 foot thick concrete covered with brick for appearance.
otherwise the vehicles heavy weight cause high and low areas and over
time poor appearance.

your far better off just repaving to do brick right costs so uch its
far more than repaving

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 7:26 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <u49Pn.21827$%u7.9989@newsfe14.iad>, Ohioguy <none@none.net> wrote:
> We have an asphalt drive, about 20 feet long, and maybe 18 feet wide,
>which needs replaced.

> I've seen a number of brick streets in the old sections of town, and
>have wondered how in the world they have lasted as long as they did.
>I've considered renting a jackhammer, then laying down a fine layer of
>gravel, and placing brick for our front drive.

That wouldn't be an adequate base, especially in your area; the ground
freezes up there.

> However, Lowe's and the other big hardware stores I've checked only
>seem to have brick with holes in it.

Stop asking for "bricks" and ask for "pavers". There's a big difference.

> Anybody ever done a project of this size on their own?

No, just seen it done on TV (This Old House Hour). To get some idea of
how it's done, check their web site.

> I've been quoted between $2k and $4k to have the whole thing replaced
>with concrete. I could probably cold patch and then seal it for $400.

I'd go with the concrete, but make sure the quotes are equivalent--same
amount of base, same thickness of slab (you'r probably need 6"), same
finishing, etc.

> Anybody have an idea how much it might cost to do with brick?

A lot more. There's more labor involved.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

If you want to reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
go plant trees.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Are you Spanking the Monkey or Teasing the Monkey?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6b4d3d644b1700d7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 1:59 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

See, there's a difference. When you spank the monkey... it's nobody's
business; you are hurting no one. But when you tease the monkey, you
are playing with his brain, a form of torture, making him believe
something it is not true and confusing him.

Take for example the fact that bicycles are vehicles and yet they are
totally ignored on the roads. They better say, "WE DON'T WANT BICYCLES
ON THE ROAD, MONKEY!" Then the monkey knows what he is up against and
goes in his cage...

It's like they say in Brazil, "WE NEED SPACE." And now hear this
dramatic account from the zoo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3AAdkfiamU&feature=related

-------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"WE NEED SPACE, WE NEED SPACE, WE NEED SPACE"

http://webspawner.com/users/MASTURBATIONFORPEACE (plan B)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: which chain has the cheapest photo printouts?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/77944da1b9931ee3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 2:10 pm
From: Ohioguy

I need to get a couple of 2"x2" US Passport Card photos (basically,
they just need to be 2"x2", full face, with white background)

I can take them at home with my digital camera, but I only have a
greyscale laser printer, so I'd need to have these printed out
somewhere. I've never printed out any of our digital photos anyplace,
so I was just wondering where this might be done cheaply, for just
printing the same shot two times?

Thanks!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 2:39 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Ohioguy wrote:

> I need to get a couple of 2"x2" US Passport Card photos (basically,
> they just need to be 2"x2", full face, with white background)

> I can take them at home with my digital camera, but I only have a
> greyscale laser printer, so I'd need to have these printed out
> somewhere. I've never printed out any of our digital photos anyplace,
> so I was just wondering where this might be done cheaply, for just
> printing the same shot two times?

Not worth worrying about finding the cheapest with just two prints required.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 2:40 pm
From: Al

On Jun 7, 5:10 pm, Ohioguy <n...@none.net> wrote:
> I need to get a couple of 2"x2" US Passport Card photos (basically,
> they just need to be 2"x2", full face, with white background)
>
> I can take them at home with my digital camera, but I only have a
> greyscale laser printer, so I'd need to have these printed out
> somewhere. I've never printed out any of our digital photos anyplace,
> so I was just wondering where this might be done cheaply, for just
> printing the same shot two times?
>
> Thanks!

Seems like you are majoring in minors here OG. I mean it's just two
pictures. How much could one hope to save?
Go to Wal-mart or CVS and getR'done. What I would do is compress the
photos to the desired 2"X2" first so they will automatically be the
size you need for the PP.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 2:47 pm
From: Shaun

Ohioguy wrote:
> I need to get a couple of 2"x2" US Passport Card photos (basically,
> they just need to be 2"x2", full face, with white background)
>
> I can take them at home with my digital camera, but I only have a
> greyscale laser printer, so I'd need to have these printed out
> somewhere. I've never printed out any of our digital photos anyplace,
> so I was just wondering where this might be done cheaply, for just
> printing the same shot two times?
>
>
> Thanks!

Given the price of gas, the one closest to you house...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Removing a polish smell
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/412e284f30c2d434?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 3:26 pm
From: Evan

On Jun 7, 6:47 am, "jkm1" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
> one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
> unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
> it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
> see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
> might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.

Without more information on what makes the smell worse, we can't be
of much help ?

Are you using the vent fan or air conditioner when you notice the
smell,
the car may have had a mold problem in the AC coils that was treated
using aerosol chemicals...

It could be a cleaning product used when the car was detailed inside
at the dealership prior to your purchase, in that case ask them what
chemicals they used and then try to find the chemicals and see
which one the child is reacting to...

Otherwise the smell could be from something in the car that shouldn't
be there like mold or rotting leftover food that got down between or
underneath the seats...

Just don't have enough information on what is going on when the
child is reacting to the smell...

~~ Evan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 3:34 pm
From: Nate Nagel

On 06/07/2010 06:26 PM, Evan wrote:
> On Jun 7, 6:47 am, "jkm1"<bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
>> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
>> one year old Citroen.
>>
>> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
>> unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
>> it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.
>>
>> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
>> see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
>> might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.
>
>
> Without more information on what makes the smell worse, we can't be
> of much help ?
>
> Are you using the vent fan or air conditioner when you notice the
> smell,
> the car may have had a mold problem in the AC coils that was treated
> using aerosol chemicals...
>
> It could be a cleaning product used when the car was detailed inside
> at the dealership prior to your purchase, in that case ask them what
> chemicals they used and then try to find the chemicals and see
> which one the child is reacting to...
>
> Otherwise the smell could be from something in the car that shouldn't
> be there like mold or rotting leftover food that got down between or
> underneath the seats...
>
> Just don't have enough information on what is going on when the
> child is reacting to the smell...
>
> ~~ Evan

No helpful suggestions, but are you sure that it's not some sort of
citrus fruit smell?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Venezuela would fulfill an American ultimate Utopia
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6931379855655577?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:17 pm
From: Forrest Hodge

On 6/4/2010 2:41 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> On Jun 4, 1:29 pm, D�nk 666<dank...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 4, 7:28 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>> Movement of Tantra-Hammock"<nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Imagine, filling the 30 gallon tank of a 1980 Chevy Caprice costs
>>> you... 2 bucks! I was hearing this report in NPR, and this guy proudly
>>> shows off in that stupid vehicle like it was the ultimate dream. It
>>> may be a nightmare for the environment, but --like in America-- gas is
>>> subsidized by their socialist government making it all possible. So,
>>> forget about Obama, Chavez is the way to go if you love your SUVs,
>>> folks.
>>
>> Actually it is hybrid-driving American leftists who love Hugo Ch�vez.
>> Ch�vez' simply uses a common trick seen in other socialist countries
>> to purchase support, currency devaluation.
>>
>> Like Barack Obama, Hugo Ch�vez purchases political support by giving
>> 'free' money away, in this case in the form of gasoline subsidies.
>> But this trick only works if there is money to give away, so either
>> the money must be raised through taxes, or new money must be printed.
>> Ch�vez has chosen the latter option, with Obama soon to follow.
>>
>> Unfortunately, printing new money causes existing money in circulation
>> to lose its value, resulting in inflation. Fortunately, inflation
>> makes people even more dependent on subsidies, making it even easier
>> to purchase their support at election time.
>>
>>> "In many parts of the world, fuel economy has become the gold-standard
>>> for cars. But not in Maracaibo, Venezuela, where old gas guzzlers are
>>> still prized for their sturdy frames and powerful engines."
>>
>> This may have less to do with gasoline subsidies than the fact that
>> devaluation of the bolivar makes it more expensive to import new
>> cars. Cuba is the same way; while the people take pride in their
>> classic American automobiles, the reason they still drive them is that
>> they can't afford to buy new ones.
>
> Oh c'mon, all governments try to secure the loyalty of a certain class
> of people, either the lions or the monkeys. In this case he's pissing
> off the lions without providing any real benefit to the monkeys.
>
> Who wants to drive a big car/SUV but a gorilla?
>
> We would do EVERYTHING DIFFERENT with the Revolution.
>
> More like this...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQTTG3NcYY
>
Sorry, but my ideal dreamworld isn't a city with hundreds of thousands
of people living in a square mile of real estate. I'll keep my 2.5 acre
lot, thanks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:26 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 7, 7:17 pm, Forrest Hodge <f...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/4/2010 2:41 PM, His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
>
> Movement of Tantra-Hammock wrote:
> > On Jun 4, 1:29 pm, D nk 666<dank...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jun 4, 7:28 am, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the
> >> Movement of Tantra-Hammock"<nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Imagine, filling the 30 gallon tank of a 1980 Chevy Caprice costs
> >>> you... 2 bucks! I was hearing this report in NPR, and this guy proudly
> >>> shows off in that stupid vehicle like it was the ultimate dream. It
> >>> may be a nightmare for the environment, but --like in America-- gas is
> >>> subsidized by their socialist government making it all possible. So,
> >>> forget about Obama, Chavez is the way to go if you love your SUVs,
> >>> folks.
>
> >> Actually it is hybrid-driving American leftists who love Hugo Ch vez.
> >> Ch vez' simply uses a common trick seen in other socialist countries
> >> to purchase support, currency devaluation.
>
> >> Like Barack Obama, Hugo Ch vez purchases political support by giving
> >> 'free' money away, in this case in the form of gasoline subsidies.
> >> But this trick only works if there is money to give away, so either
> >> the money must be raised through taxes, or new money must be printed.
> >> Ch vez has chosen the latter option, with Obama soon to follow.
>
> >> Unfortunately, printing new money causes existing money in circulation
> >> to lose its value, resulting in inflation. Fortunately, inflation
> >> makes people even more dependent on subsidies, making it even easier
> >> to purchase their support at election time.
>
> >>> "In many parts of the world, fuel economy has become the gold-standard
> >>> for cars. But not in Maracaibo, Venezuela, where old gas guzzlers are
> >>> still prized for their sturdy frames and powerful engines."
>
> >> This may have less to do with gasoline subsidies than the fact that
> >> devaluation of the bolivar makes it more expensive to import new
> >> cars. Cuba is the same way; while the people take pride in their
> >> classic American automobiles, the reason they still drive them is that
> >> they can't afford to buy new ones.
>
> > Oh c'mon, all governments try to secure the loyalty of a certain class
> > of people, either the lions or the monkeys. In this case he's pissing
> > off the lions without providing any real benefit to the monkeys.
>
> > Who wants to drive a big car/SUV but a gorilla?
>
> > We would do EVERYTHING DIFFERENT with the Revolution.
>
> > More like this...
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swQTTG3NcYY
>
> Sorry, but my ideal dreamworld isn't a city with hundreds of thousands
> of people living in a square mile of real estate. I'll keep my 2.5 acre
> lot, thanks.

If all people were like you, we would need a planet the size of
Saturn. But Earth is a rather small planet, where some people are
lucky like you, but others can handle lots of people on bikes and
public transportation.

==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ALB40 max 45mm wide, adjustable mens leather braceletalb40 of wholesale
beads
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/002e505f9b6a0b31?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 6 2010 11:56 pm
From: 泳梨余

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bracelet.html

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 12:22 am
From: justme@somewhere.com

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 10:47:50 -0400, "EXT" <noemail@reply.in.this.group>
wrote:

>
>"Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:hugcjh$ajm$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> john hamilton wrote:
>>> When working on my car, I bring it right up close to the house and
>>> lay my tools out on the floor behind the front door. Since you never
>>> know when it will rain, it works out very handy since then all I have
>>> to do is close the door; and don't have to be picking up all the
>>> tools.
>>> Now if its not warm the family doesn't like the cold air coming into
>>> the house and they want the front door shut, which is fair enough.
>>> Since the door just swings open I have to keep getting the keys out
>>> of my pocket to open the door.
>>>
>>> I would like the door to stay shut on its own accord, yet just open
>>> with a push without having to use the keys. There is no room on the
>>> door jamb to screw one of those helical spring self closers. And
>>> anyway in general use we dont want the door to close by itself. Which
>>> also rules out one of those hydraulic self closers which could fit on
>>> at the top of the door.
>>> Have tried using the strongest cuboard magnet I can find (In north
>>> London u.k.), but if the wind picks up surprisingly it will just not
>>> hold. Also tried cutting a thin wedge of cork glued to an upright
>>> jamb which makes the door a tight fit when closed. However the door
>>> shrinks in the summer and expands in the winter so that only works
>>> for about half the year.
>>> Grateful for any suggestions, especially something similar to the cork
>>> arrangement which works just fine prividing the weather suits it.
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Just about any door latch in the world will fix that.
>>
>>
>
>Why not use a tool box next to the car, they close up quick too.

Get one of those toolboxes made for pickup truck beds and keep it near
the door, put tools in it, close the lid when you finish working on
car for the day. Or build something similar to a dog house with lift
up lid. Makes more sense than opening the house door over and over
and letting all the heating or cooling escape.

Better yet, build a garage to work on the car..... Of course that
costs more.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:26 am
From: "Josepi"

I use that method for my master bedroom. Once she complies I let her out for
breakfast.

LOL
"F Murtz" <haggisz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hui1ma$ql7$1@news.eternal-september.org...
It is possible to get electrically operated magnetic catches. You could
go the whole hog and make it remote control and keep remote in pocket.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 7:35 am
From: "Bob F"

Duncan Wood wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:24:38 +0100, Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:13:54 +0100, The Natural Philosopher ??o??:
>>
>>> Jeff The Drunk wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:06:09 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "john hamilton" <bluestarx@mail.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hugc8b$uec$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> Have tried using the strongest cuboard magnet I can find (In
>>>>>> north London u.k.), but if the wind picks up surprisingly it
>>>>>> will just not hold. Also
>>>>> The magnet out of a hard drive is flat and very strong.
>>>>
>>>> Really? What kind of hard drive has a big flat magnet inside? That
>>>> defies all logic on the principals of how a hard drive works.
>>>> themotor
>>
>> So hard drives have a motor that has a big flat strong magnet?
>> Wouldn't that mess up the data being written to the platers?
>>
>
> No.

It is the head moving mechanism that uses the magnets, not the motor.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 7:38 am
From: "Bob F"

terry wrote:
> Got another couple of hard drives downstairs to be scrapped for small
> parts, especially the magnets.
>
> Development of stronger magnets has certainly progressed during the
> last 50 to 60 years! The magnets used for WWII magnetrons were huge.
> Nowadays each microwave oven normally contains two such annular
> (doughnut shape) magnets, which together will fit into a mail
> envelope!

I use hard drive magnets to locate the studs in wall. The magnets will easily
stick to the nails in the wallboard. Just find the nail and stick the magnet
there to mark the spot.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 10:52 am
From: Whiskers

To the OP: why not install a simple latch on the door? (The sort meant
for house doors, of course!).

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 12:40 am
From: "Rod Speed"

HerHusband wrote
> Hi Rod,

>>> Avoid taking loans for anything. If you don't have
>>> the money, wait and save until you can afford it.
>
>> I dont agree with that. There are situations where a loan does make
>> sense, most obviously to buy a reliable car that is essential for a
>> particular job etc.

>> The loan allows you to start earning real money more quickly.

> If you are starting with nothing, then yes, a loan might
> be the only way to acquire the essentials you need for
> employment (transportation, clothing, tools, or whatever).

And even if you have more than nothing, it can make sense
to borrow money rather than save for the difference too.

> But I would think most folks over 20 years old or
> so would already have many of the basic items.

Yes, but may not necessarily have a reliable car that a particular job needs.

Another obvious example is student loans that can give you
the qualifications to get a much better job and it generally
doesnt make sense to save for that sort of cost.

Even a loan for a house can make sense too if that forces
you to save rather than pissing the rent against the wall for
years while you save enough to buy a house, particularly
if you arent capable of building the house. And even when
you are capable of building the house, it can make sense
to borrow rather than save for the land and materials too.

> That said, we have never paid more than $3000 for a car, and
> have never needed a loan. We bought our cars from savings.

Yes, but it can make sense to borrow to get the car that makes
a particular job possible, rather than save for that car first, just
because you start earning the decent money earlier.

> If we only had $1000, we didn't buy a vehicle that cost more than $1000.

Yes, but those cars may not be reliable enough or viable for particular jobs.

> Of course, we've always been willing to fix problems ourselves,
> scrounging salvage yards if needed to get the car running.

Yes, I did the same thing myself but not everyone can do that.

> Obviously, not everyone is willing or able to do that, but I've been driving the
> same car (a 1976 Rabbit) for over 20 years now and it still runs and drives great.

I bought my Golf new and used it as the only car for 35+ years with no real
maintenance required at all except for an alternator relay and a distributor rotor.

And then was stupid enough to not fix a known windscreen leak that
eventually rusted the floor out. If it wasnt for that I would still be using it.

>> Yes, but if the loan is used to buy the car that produces significant
>> income, a cheap reliable car can be paid for quickly and you dont
>> end up paying much for the finance if you finance it properly.

> I didn't mean to imply there were "never" situations a loan might be needed,

That is what you originally said.

> just to "avoid" them whenever possible. We've had a few loans
> over the years, starting small to build a good credit rating, and
> the last was the loan for our property about 20+ years ago.

Yeah, it generally doesnt make sense to save for the land.

I was fortunate enough to get mine from the govt with a no deposit
loan from the govt at a derisory interest rate, so I never did bother
to pay it off, just made the payments as required, and made a lot
more than the interest I was paying on the stockmarket.

> But we always paid well above the minimum to keep interest
> charges down (we paid off our 15 year loan in about 5 years).

I didnt need to bother because the interest rate was so low.

In fact it made no sense to pay it off faster because I was
making a lot more than that on that money in the stockmarket.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 2:26 am
From: The Natural Philosopher

krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> O
>> Here in Alabamastan, I believe a bank account would be taxed if it
>> earned interest.
>
> Only the interest is taxed, not the principal. That's a normal capital gains
> tax.

No, thats a normal INCOME tax.

> Taxing the principal is *not* normal. Personal property is taxed in
> some states but I've never heard of cash being considered personal property.

Well If it ain't personal property what is it?

Personal property taxes exist on many things: car license fees, council
tax..these are all taxes on personal property, as is inheritance tax.

Means testing individuals who have no income, but large capital assets,
is also an implicit tax on personal property.

Its just ways to transfer capital assets from the individual to the
state. Back door communism.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 7:18 am
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Another obvious example is student loans that can give you
>the qualifications to get a much better job and it generally
>doesnt make sense to save for that sort of cost.

Rod I'm on the fence on student loans

I have student loans but looking back almost think it
best to "pay as you go".

what you say?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 8:45 am
From: keith

On Jun 7, 9:18 am, m...@privacy.net wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Another obvious example is student loans that can give you
> >the qualifications to get a much better job and it generally
> >doesnt make sense to save for that sort of cost.
>
> Rod I'm on the fence on student loans
>
> I have student loans but looking back almost think it
> best to "pay as you go".
>
> what you say?

Student loans are the means to higher priced education, which is why
the Demonicrats love them so. Note: Higher price <> better

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:04 am
From: me@privacy.net

keith <keithw86@gmail.com> wrote:

>Student loans are the means to higher priced education, which is why
>the Demonicrats love them so. Note: Higher price <> better

engineering school here.... for me

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yet another spam source
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0a2c8956e3506738?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 12:44 am
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev wrote:
> On 06/06/10 08:13, h wrote:
>
>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hufdck$26s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> On 06/05/10 15:44, NancyR wrote:
>>>
>>>> "The Real Bev"<bashley101@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hu9tig$l20$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> I've recently gotten spam text messages on my pre-paid T-Mobile
>>>>> account,
>>>>> which cost me a nickel each. Outrageous. I phoned tech
>>>>> support. The first guy was barely able to speak English and
>>>>> hung up on me after 4 minutes. The second guy was OK and set
>>>>> my account up so that I would NOT
>>>>> receive marketing messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a crappy system. You're assumed to WANT to pay for spam
>>>>> unless you
>>>>> call and tell them different.
>>>>>
>>>>> I shouldn't complain, though. It costs me $10/year now and I'll
>>>>> probably
>>>>> never use up my minutes. Still...
>>>>
>>>> What plan do you have that is $10 a year?
>>>
>>> Cheap prepaid. Once you've bought $100 worth of minutes, from
>>> then on they all roll over as long as you buy $10 worth (maybe 30
>>> minutes or so) each year. I've got 800 minutes now, and I don't
>>> make more than 4 calls a month ("Hi, there's traffic, I'll be a
>>> little late."), rarely that. On a per-minute basis it's not
>>> particularly cheap, but on a per-year basis you can't find
>>> anything better.
>> Tracfone is like that, but they also require you to buy airtime.
>> Works out to $6/month, not $10/year. Does your plan not charge for
>> airtime?
>
> That's what you're buying for your $10/year. Another 35 minutes
> added to the total. If your phone takes pictures, it costs 2.5
> minutes to send one -- I wish I'd known that when I bought my phone
> (Samsung T319), which does NOT have USB connection capability.

Doesnt it have bluetooth ? Not as fast as USB but quite viable for pictures.

> <http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/prepaid-plans.aspx?WT.mc_n=PrePdPlnsOvrMain&WT.mc_t=OnsiteAd>

> Connectivity at my house sucks. I have to walk up or down the street
> 50 feet, and then it's fine. Not really all that important since we
> have a land line.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: food-for-gold
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1fba697402bbcdab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 1:43 am
From: ekr3d

Disasters age ((((food-for-gold))))
http://gold-ekramy.blogspot.com/

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 3:47 am
From: "jkm1"

Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
one year old Citroen.

There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.

Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:34 am
From: "steve robinson"

jkm1 wrote:

> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently
> purchased one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds
> very unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly
> and we suspect it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been
> used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the
> surfaces to see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want
> to be something that might adversely affect the plastic and the
> seats. Thanks.

Its probably one of those deoderising cleaners / sprays soap and
water will be your best option followed by febreeze or one of the
odour neutrisers sold at halfrauds

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 5:03 am
From: Rob Graham

On 07/06/2010 11:47, jkm1 wrote:
> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
> one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
> unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
> it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
> see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
> might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.
>
>

Check that it's not the screen wash liquid. When I last bought a brand
new car it stank of dead rats when you operated the washers. Renewing
the wash fluid cured that.

Rob Graham

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 10:39 am
From: ransley

On Jun 7, 5:47 am, "jkm1" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> Need to remove a polish smell thats inside the neighbours recently purchased
> one year old Citroen.
>
> There is a sickly smell that one of the children especially finds very
> unpleasant. It's very subtle and difficult to locate exactly and we suspect
> it might be an interior cleaner or polish thats been used.
>
> Is there some solution that we can make up to wipe over all the surfaces to
> see if it removes the smell. It obviously wouldn't want to be something that
> might adversely affect the plastic and the seats. Thanks.

A sulfurous smell can be a battery very low on water.Ive had plastic
bags melt on the exhaust. If it was recently cleaned Alcohol can be
used to go over smooth surfaces, if its in the seats and carpet park
it in the sun with windows open. It will just take time, maybe weeks
or more.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple hack to get $500 to your home.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0aff506b0bed631f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 4:48 am
From: money mania

Simple hack to get $500 to your home at http://mastidunia.tk

Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an
image. in that website on left side below search box, click on image
and enter your name and address where you want to receive your
cheque.please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What would Jesus ask a Darwinian? A possible explanation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7c02fbcad5311967?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 5:23 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, Creator of the Movement of Tantra-
Hammock"

On Jun 7, 7:58 am, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:21:32 -0700 (PDT), "His Highness the , Creator
> of the Movement of Tantra-Hammock" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> On Jun 6, 9:20 pm, James A. Donald <jam...@echeque.com> wrote:
>
> > > And a little later you tell me you cannot ride a bike without being
> > > attacked. Could it be that Little Haiti has some resemblance to big
> > > Haiti?
>
> TibetanMonkey
>
> > Listen, it's hard to understand that I do NOT live in Little Haiti? I
> > live in a mixed community with no blacks. No whites either. Just Jews
> > further down the road, and they take care of *their* community only.
>
> But you cannot bike without being attacked. Where do you think the
> attackers live?

I live next to the lions. I've been attacked by the lions who hate the
competition from the monkeys on bike. Never mind I'm a VIP monkey and
my bikes are the Rolls Royce of bikes.

>
> > > You complain that the elite live behind walls. You think they are
> > > happy with that? They want the trash to be locked behind walls.
>
> > They wished, that's the argument behind B-13...
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19CrlgB0ueU
>
> Seems like a good idea to me.

They are going to nuke the jungle. But everything is exposed and the
"gated community" for the monkeys is open again.

How about the lions REALLY trying to pacify the jungle and trying not
to keep the monkeys dumb? How about legalizing drugs to see 50% of the
problem gone?

Too bold a step? That's what I propose in the next step up in
evolution (the revolution).

------------------------------------------------

THE REVOLUTION IS THE SOLUTION

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sex crimes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6ea4d12e246dda5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 5:51 am
From: ekr3d

The Secret Life of a Sexual Predator

lawyers-ekramy.blogspot.com/2010/05/sex-crimes.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.
blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e7ea049218b55cef?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 6:50 am
From: Naeem

"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/ "PRETTY
PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY PAKISTANI
GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS" "DESI GIRLS"
"PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/
"PRETTY PAKISTANI FASHION 2010 GIRLS" "FASHION 2010 PAKISTAN" "SEXY
PAKISTANI GIRLS" "KARACHI GIRLS" "LAHORE GIRLS" "ISLAMABAD GIRLS"
"DESI GIRLS" "PUNJABI GIRLS" "URDU SPEAKING GIRLS" ON
http://hollywood-bollywood-sexy.blogspot.com/

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:25 am
From: Ohioguy

We have an asphalt drive, about 20 feet long, and maybe 18 feet wide,
which needs replaced.

I've seen a number of brick streets in the old sections of town, and
have wondered how in the world they have lasted as long as they did.
I've considered renting a jackhammer, then laying down a fine layer of
gravel, and placing brick for our front drive.

However, Lowe's and the other big hardware stores I've checked only
seem to have brick with holes in it.

Anybody ever done a project of this size on their own?

I've been quoted between $2k and $4k to have the whole thing replaced
with concrete. I could probably cold patch and then seal it for $400.

Anybody have an idea how much it might cost to do with brick?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:52 am
From: "Lou"

"Ohioguy" <none@none.net> wrote in message
news:u49Pn.21827$%u7.9989@newsfe14.iad...
> We have an asphalt drive, about 20 feet long, and maybe 18 feet wide,
> which needs replaced.
>
> I've seen a number of brick streets in the old sections of town, and
> have wondered how in the world they have lasted as long as they did. I've
> considered renting a jackhammer, then laying down a fine layer of gravel,
> and placing brick for our front drive.
>
> However, Lowe's and the other big hardware stores I've checked only seem
> to have brick with holes in it.
>
> Anybody ever done a project of this size on their own?
>
>
> I've been quoted between $2k and $4k to have the whole thing replaced
> with concrete. I could probably cold patch and then seal it for $400.
>
> Anybody have an idea how much it might cost to do with brick?

My house came with a gravel driveway. After 10 years or so, I got estimates
of around 5k to have it paved. I ended up buying more gravel at the time.
A few years later, I decided I wanted it paved, but rather than asphalt or
concrete, I decided to go with EP Henry pavers because I liked the way they
look.

This is a big deal, because vehicles tend to be heavy. They dug down at
least 2 feet (maybe more) carted all that stuff away, laid down gravel and
sand, compacted it, levelled everything off, then laid down the pavers.
Last step was getting some kind of sand into the cracks between the pavers.
There was heavy machinery involved and at least 3 or 4 guys to do the labor,
and it took over a week, maybe two - it was years ago, and my memory is hazy
on this point.

All in all, I think using bricks would be similar. A big job for one guy
with a shovel and a wheelbarrow, though I guess it could be done if you can
park on the street for a while (like a month or three). Since you already
have a paved driveway, maybe the foundation work is already there and you'd
"only" need to take up the old paving, level everything off, and lay down
the brick. I don't remember what it cost, but concrete or asphalt would
have been cheaper. But the pavers look great.

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 9:59 am
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <da4b7beb-a04b-4d00-888e-aff3e0e0928d@y11g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
terry wrote:

>Maybe OK in principle but ............ Problem is that based on $2,50
>per month ($30.00 per year), if indeed it is that much? That just over
>8 cents per-day is inconsequential in the overall cost of operating a
>North American home. (Less than 1% of energy bill).

1% here, a fraction of a percent there and other places, half a percent
in a couple more, another % in each of a couple other places... That
often adds up to something significant.

>Eight cents per day is here (NE Canada) about 8/10ths of 1000 watt
>hours during one day, or the equivalent of leaving one 34 watt
>fluorescent tube light fixture on all the time!.
>Since we have a 9 'LED strip above our sink that uses ONE watt
>(total), which we leave on all the time, it's hard to perceive 'All
>the little indicator lights' adding up to anything significant!'
>Also recall that after WWII, in the UK, neon 'night lights' became
>available and my grandfather saying, with some delight, that he turned
>off everything in the house except the night light and 'The meter
>didn't even move'!

>As posted here previously, mains voltage neons use a milliamp or two,
>at 120 or 240 volts, LEDs probably less!

LEDs usually take more. Few get less than 2 mA, and 10 mA is typical.
Keep in mind that most indcator LEDs even now have chip chemistries that
were available in the mid to late 1970's. That is done ecause they cost
less than more efficient more modern ones.
With an average supply voltage that LED power comes from likely being
around 5 volts in consumer products other than power strips, along with
losses in the power supply, I would expect typical power consumption by
and associated with each LED glowing in the house to be ~.07 watt. What
if there's a lot of those?

However, I would worry more about wallwarts being plugged in all the
time and computers, monitors, TVs etc. drawing a few watts each when they
are plugged in but "off", and 4-7W incandescent nightlights that can be
replaced by 1/3-watt to 1-watt LED ones.

>And since all/most electrical energy entering a home ends up as heat
>within the house envelope anyway .................. !

Which in most places costs more per BTU than natural gas, fuel oil
and heat pumps do. And when it's not heating season, the electricity cost
does not offset anything. And when it's air conditioning season, the cost
is compounded.

--
- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jun 7 2010 10:53 am
From: SMS

On 06/06/10 10:04 PM, terry wrote:

<snip>

> As posted here previously, mains voltage neons use a milliamp or two,
> at 120 or 240 volts, LEDs probably less!

Indicator LEDs are about 2mA at 2VDV, so at 120VAC the losses in the
transformer and rectifiers are far more than the power actually drawn by
the LED. A neon lamp might actually be more efficient to run off of AC
since you don't have all the losses of the magnetics. You could run an
LED off low voltage AC and it would just illuminate on half of each
cycle (some cyclists do this when they connect an LED directly to their
dynamo without using a rectifier).