26 new messages in 7 topics - digest

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17 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Saving at the Farmer's Market - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7d07f732fa29f8b2?hl=en
* Target unit pricing - Here's the real point - 8 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2a1db67120ad9cd3?hl=en
* German Shepherd Dog Breed - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/596e60a4864ac49b?hl=en
* How many here own food freezer? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/79858a8bd8f90308?hl=en
* china a specializing burberry prada fendi puma sneakers - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/25f6df73026a3b8d?hl=en
* Helen's DaveCon 2008 Trip Report, Photos - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1203627e7a96c37c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Saving at the Farmer's Market
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7d07f732fa29f8b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 1:52 pm
From: George Grapman

bungalow_steve@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jun 26, 8:46 pm, Ablang <ron...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Most frugal zealots give tips about slashing your food bill as much as
>> possible. As a foodie and a consciously frugal gal, I'm more
>> interested in getting the best quality bargain that supports my local
>> economy. My dollars are as good as votes (some would argue the only
>> vote that really counts), and I want to make sure I'm voting in line
>> with my values. My values when it comes to food? It needs to be
>> delicious, sustainably produced and preferably grown on a small-scale
>> farm. Luckily, my local farmer's market provides just those things!
>>
>> Sometimes farmer's markets are more expensive than grocery stores.
>> Sometimes, items are cheaper, depending on the season and the seller.
>> Supermarkets are often cheaper because grocers purchase large
>> quantities from mega farms. But there is much debate about the ethical
>> practices of many large supermarkets, as they often force farmers to
>> sell their crops at a significant loss. I'm not interested in saving
>> money if it means that the person who toiled to create the product I'm
>> purchasing didn't receive a fair price for his or her efforts.
>>
>> Now, let me step off my soap box and give a few tips on how I've
>> learned to save money while shopping at my local farmer's market
>> (thanks for listening to the sermon, though. And yeah, I know, I'm
>> preaching to the choir!).
>>
>> 1. Take a pen and paper with you. If possible, bring a friend (running
>> errands together saves on gas!) to help. Basically, you'll be creating
>> an impromptu price book that will change weekly.
>>
>> 2. As you're walking, jot down the prices of products you want to buy
>> and their relative location. Use whatever method is easiest for you. I
>> make a two lines and write the product and price down with an "X" on
>> the either side of the "aisle" where the booth is located. Some
>> markets are kind enough to have booth numbers or names displayed. If
>> you're so lucky, you can note that cherries are $4 a box at booth six,
>> etc.
>>
>> 3. Be sure to jot down any other information that is important to you.
>> Do you want organic produce or are you willing to buy conventionally
>> grown items?
>>
>> 4. After you've walked the length of the market, take a look at your
>> notes and circle the least expensive items. Return to those booths and
>> make your purchases.
>>
>> In some instances, there will be only one vendor selling what you
>> want, but most of the time you'll have several growers from which to
>> choose. Don't let any do-gooder guilt make you spend more for the same
>> product. Keep in mind that most people don't pay attention to prices
>> and will purchase items as they go along, and most farmers present
>> will receive support.
>>
>> The same grocery shopping rules apply at the farmer's market-don't
>> shop when hungry, bring a list (this may require that you educate
>> yourself on what is in season in your area), bring your own bags, and
>> do your best not to become enthralled with anything you don't actually
>> need.
>>
>> http://consciouslyfrugal.blogspot.com/2007/05/saving-at-farmers-marke...
>
> warning, most farmer's markets just resell mass produced stuff, at
> least in my area, the tomatoes and strawberries they sell are usually
> a dead giveaway (calif crap)
>
> the supermarket I go too now has a "farmers market area", more highly
> prices, but they are really locally grown, with the name and location
> of each farmer displayed next to each item. And it's real local stuff,
> buggy fruit, half size strawberries, weird shaped tomatoes, dull
> looking apples, but all taste great!

In San Francisco not only is the name of the farm displayed but the
truck with that name is usually adjacent to the stall.
The best tomatoes I ever had are sold by Two Dog Farms in Santa Cruz
County at the Sunday farmers market here during summer months.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 2:44 pm
From: sarge137

On Jun 27, 1:03 pm, "bungalow_st...@yahoo.com"
<bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 8:46 pm, Ablang <ron...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Most frugal zealots give tips about slashing your food bill as much as
> > possible. As a foodie and a consciously frugal gal, I'm more
> > interested in getting the best quality bargain that supports my local
> > economy. My dollars are as good as votes (some would argue the only
> > vote that really counts), and I want to make sure I'm voting in line
> > with my values. My values when it comes to food? It needs to be
> > delicious, sustainably produced and preferably grown on a small-scale
> > farm. Luckily, my local farmer's market provides just those things!
>
> > Sometimes farmer's markets are more expensive than grocery stores.
> > Sometimes, items are cheaper, depending on the season and the seller.
> > Supermarkets are often cheaper because grocers purchase large
> > quantities from mega farms. But there is much debate about the ethical
> > practices of many large supermarkets, as they often force farmers to
> > sell their crops at a significant loss. I'm not interested in saving
> > money if it means that the person who toiled to create the product I'm
> > purchasing didn't receive a fair price for his or her efforts.
>
> > Now, let me step off my soap box and give a few tips on how I've
> > learned to save money while shopping at my local farmer's market
> > (thanks for listening to the sermon, though. And yeah, I know, I'm
> > preaching to the choir!).
>
> > 1. Take a pen and paper with you. If possible, bring a friend (running
> > errands together saves on gas!) to help. Basically, you'll be creating
> > an impromptu price book that will change weekly.
>
> > 2. As you're walking, jot down the prices of products you want to buy
> > and their relative location. Use whatever method is easiest for you. I
> > make a two lines and write the product and price down with an "X" on
> > the either side of the "aisle" where the booth is located. Some
> > markets are kind enough to have booth numbers or names displayed. If
> > you're so lucky, you can note that cherries are $4 a box at booth six,
> > etc.
>
> > 3. Be sure to jot down any other information that is important to you.
> > Do you want organic produce or are you willing to buy conventionally
> > grown items?
>
> > 4. After you've walked the length of the market, take a look at your
> > notes and circle the least expensive items. Return to those booths and
> > make your purchases.
>
> > In some instances, there will be only one vendor selling what you
> > want, but most of the time you'll have several growers from which to
> > choose. Don't let any do-gooder guilt make you spend more for the same
> > product. Keep in mind that most people don't pay attention to prices
> > and will purchase items as they go along, and most farmers present
> > will receive support.
>
> > The same grocery shopping rules apply at the farmer's market-don't
> > shop when hungry, bring a list (this may require that you educate
> > yourself on what is in season in your area), bring your own bags, and
> > do your best not to become enthralled with anything you don't actually
> > need.
>
> >http://consciouslyfrugal.blogspot.com/2007/05/saving-at-farmers-marke...
>
> warning, most farmer's markets just resell mass produced stuff, at
> least in my area,  the tomatoes and strawberries they sell are usually
> a dead giveaway (calif crap)
>
Yup. Until a few years ago in my area one could spend the whole
weekend, every weekend, going from one farmer's market to another.
But, people eventually caught on, and almost all of them went away.
Now there's maybe one a week, and all of the vendors have to be local
growers/producers. Not sure exactly how the organizers enforce that,
but you find names and local addresses on the booths, and the
receipts. Not cheap, but the quality is the best you can buy for any
amount.

Regards,
Sarge

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 5:21 pm
From: George Grapman

sarge137 wrote:
> On Jun 27, 1:03 pm, "bungalow_st...@yahoo.com"
> <bungalow_st...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jun 26, 8:46 pm, Ablang <ron...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Most frugal zealots give tips about slashing your food bill as much as
>>> possible. As a foodie and a consciously frugal gal, I'm more
>>> interested in getting the best quality bargain that supports my local
>>> economy. My dollars are as good as votes (some would argue the only
>>> vote that really counts), and I want to make sure I'm voting in line
>>> with my values. My values when it comes to food? It needs to be
>>> delicious, sustainably produced and preferably grown on a small-scale
>>> farm. Luckily, my local farmer's market provides just those things!
>>> Sometimes farmer's markets are more expensive than grocery stores.
>>> Sometimes, items are cheaper, depending on the season and the seller.
>>> Supermarkets are often cheaper because grocers purchase large
>>> quantities from mega farms. But there is much debate about the ethical
>>> practices of many large supermarkets, as they often force farmers to
>>> sell their crops at a significant loss. I'm not interested in saving
>>> money if it means that the person who toiled to create the product I'm
>>> purchasing didn't receive a fair price for his or her efforts.
>>> Now, let me step off my soap box and give a few tips on how I've
>>> learned to save money while shopping at my local farmer's market
>>> (thanks for listening to the sermon, though. And yeah, I know, I'm
>>> preaching to the choir!).
>>> 1. Take a pen and paper with you. If possible, bring a friend (running
>>> errands together saves on gas!) to help. Basically, you'll be creating
>>> an impromptu price book that will change weekly.
>>> 2. As you're walking, jot down the prices of products you want to buy
>>> and their relative location. Use whatever method is easiest for you. I
>>> make a two lines and write the product and price down with an "X" on
>>> the either side of the "aisle" where the booth is located. Some
>>> markets are kind enough to have booth numbers or names displayed. If
>>> you're so lucky, you can note that cherries are $4 a box at booth six,
>>> etc.
>>> 3. Be sure to jot down any other information that is important to you.
>>> Do you want organic produce or are you willing to buy conventionally
>>> grown items?
>>> 4. After you've walked the length of the market, take a look at your
>>> notes and circle the least expensive items. Return to those booths and
>>> make your purchases.
>>> In some instances, there will be only one vendor selling what you
>>> want, but most of the time you'll have several growers from which to
>>> choose. Don't let any do-gooder guilt make you spend more for the same
>>> product. Keep in mind that most people don't pay attention to prices
>>> and will purchase items as they go along, and most farmers present
>>> will receive support.
>>> The same grocery shopping rules apply at the farmer's market-don't
>>> shop when hungry, bring a list (this may require that you educate
>>> yourself on what is in season in your area), bring your own bags, and
>>> do your best not to become enthralled with anything you don't actually
>>> need.
>>> http://consciouslyfrugal.blogspot.com/2007/05/saving-at-farmers-marke...
>> warning, most farmer's markets just resell mass produced stuff, at
>> least in my area, the tomatoes and strawberries they sell are usually
>> a dead giveaway (calif crap)
>>
> Yup. Until a few years ago in my area one could spend the whole
> weekend, every weekend, going from one farmer's market to another.
> But, people eventually caught on, and almost all of them went away.
> Now there's maybe one a week, and all of the vendors have to be local
> growers/producers. Not sure exactly how the organizers enforce that,
> but you find names and local addresses on the booths, and the
> receipts. Not cheap, but the quality is the best you can buy for any
> amount.
>
> Regards,
> Sarge
Pricing sometime higher sometimes lower. Last week I got tomatoes at
a farmers market that were better/cheaper than the chains. I also
purchased some small red potatoes that cost more than Safeway but were
great.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Target unit pricing - Here's the real point
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/2a1db67120ad9cd3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 2:40 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <a1919ffc-ab39-49d0-94cb-d1a9fb89bdc9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
sarge137 wrote in part:

>On Jun 27, 1:02 am, Jack Bauer <j...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> the zak wrote:
>> > Target unit pricing shelf labels for paper goods like paper
>> > towels and toilet tissue list the unit price per 100 sheets
>> > instead of per 100 square feet as do other stores.
>> > It's inaccurate. Sheet sizes vary. Converting unit pricing
>> > from per 100 sheets to per 100 square feet is difficult
>> > to do in the aisle of the Target store.
>>
>> I have been in several different stores trying to figure out the unit
>> pricing on bottled water.  They will have all different sizes and
>> brands, but in the end they are all just bottles containing water,
>> right?  But the unit pricing is by the each, liter, ounce, you name it!
>>   Whatever units they can come up with to make it all more confusing.
>> You can't compare.
>
>Interesting. We shop at two different stores on a regular basis. A
>Kroger chain store and a military commissary. In both cases every
>beverage (water, soft drinks, fruit juice, etc) they sell is unit
>priced per ounce, regardless of the packaging or volume of the
>package. In fact, I don't remember ever seeing a unit price shelf
>label that wasn't expressed per pound or ounce so long as the label on
>the product is expressed in those terms (which is pretty much
>everything on their shelves).

I have seen the supermarket nearest my day job have all the unit prices
for all sizes and versions of one brand of dish detergent with unit
pricing per ounce, and all unit prices for all sizes and versions of
another brand unit priced per quart.

I buy my dish detergent elsewhere. I don't even know if that
supermarket changed to all dish detergent unit prices being on the same
unit within the past 5-6 years or not. However, several hundred people
living within 3 blocks of this place are elderly or disbled or both along
with not having cars, and I wonder what percentage of such low mobility
people can multiply or divide by 32 in their heads.
Many college students who live within walking distance of that
supermarket 8-9 months a year also don't have cars, and I suspect many of
those also can't multiply or divide by 32 in their heads.
(Thankfully I can well enough very proficiently and quickly
multiply/divide in my head all numbers that are "pretty much the powers
of the 6th root of 2 and 20th root of 10" - "the 1/6 octave numbers" -
which include pi and the square root of 2.)

This sort of BS is one of the reasons why people demand politicians
passing laws telling business operators how to run their businesses. If
businesses (more like the notably verminous subset thereof; there are
plenty of upright and benevolent businesses) did better at playing fair
and doing the right thing, then some lawyers would have to find other
lines of work and the news media would need to become a little less like
vermin than they are now in order to justify their (now very necessary)
existence on serving public good.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 3:04 pm
From: sarge137

On Jun 27, 3:40 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

>
>   This sort of BS is one of the reasons why people demand politicians
> passing laws telling business operators how to run their businesses.  If
> businesses (more like the notably verminous subset thereof; there are
> plenty of upright and benevolent businesses) did better at playing fair
> and doing the right thing, then some lawyers would have to find other
> lines of work and the news media would need to become a little less like
> vermin than they are now in order to justify their (now very necessary)
> existence on serving public good.
>
>  - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)

Absolutely right, Don. I'm the kind of guy who, if I saw an apparent
difference in the size and/or price to actually look at the unit price
label, would have the manager of that store standing in front of that
product and ask him/her just exactly how I'm supposed to to do a
proper price comparison. I'd also ask if they wanted to keep my
business, and what the consumer reporter at the local TV station would
think of the practice. Somebody's gotta do it. :-)

Regards,
Sarge

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 3:16 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In article <g423pe$b8i$2@news.parasun.com>, Jack Bauer wrote:
>Seerialmom wrote:
>> On Jun 26, 1:19 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Scott in SoCal <scottenazt...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> the zak <don.sak...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Target unit pricing shelf labels for paper goods like paper
>>>>> towels and toilet tissue list the unit price per 100 sheets
>>>>> instead of per 100 square feet as do other stores.
>>>>> It's inaccurate. Sheet sizes vary. Converting unit pricing
>>>>> from per 100 sheets to per 100 square feet is difficult
>>>>> to do in the aisle of the Target store.
>>>> Not if you have a pocket calculator.
>>> Or any decent cellphone.
>>
>> My cell phone (Motorola V551) must not be decent...it doesn't have a
>> calculator :(
>
>I bet it does, just very hard to find and use. Even my cheapo Nokia $30
>cell phone has a calculator. Of course, no camera or bluetooth.

I have a Nokia phone, model that I can't remember, with a calculator.
I find that cellphone calculator worse than not having one!

It appeaers to me that there shoule be major consumer demand for
cellphones to have really easy calculator functions!

I am not one of the consumers shopping for cellphones much on that
basis, since I have a fairly good calculator that I built on my own within
my cranium! I am the proud owner of the Don Klipstein "Brainiac"
calculator, good enough for me to design gapped magnetic electronic
components and tuned port loudspeaker cabinets in my head.

However, many other people would do well to have something that they
normally carry all the time serving well as a quick and proficient
calculator. It appears to me that watches that are made to also be
calculators are too slow to use due to buttons/keys that are very small
and closely spaced.

If my "Brainiac" did not work so well, I would carry along a
true and decent calculator into supermarkets just as surely as I now do
most of my grocery hauling by bicycle to tell OPEC and Nigeria and Exxon
that I don't have to spend $4.15 per gallon to haul groceries home. I
just wish that more of my fellow Americans would spend a couple bucks to
get calculators, so that they and their fellow American consumers can
conspire to vote against this supermarket BS with their wallets and
pocketbooks!
If Americans when faced with such lowly BS can fight it without
resorting to government and lawyers, I think it's so much better!
America has been a country of "freedom loving outlaws"! I appears to me
that unit pricing BS/"horse puckey"/"cow-cookies" are better to be
fought by Americans to the extent that they can turn the tide against
BS-ing shopkeepers without needing government assistance to do so any more
than Americans needed Prohibition or the 55 MPH national speed limit!

Not that I think that BS-ing shopkeepers do not deserve heavy-handed
government regulation!
It's just that I find that an aware and able populace that America
*should have* is more effective than most of the elected officials that
all-too-many Americans are all-too-willing to sell their votes to; bought
by the all-too-many American voters who want pork, cutting of pork except
for that in their district, or get sold on tax cuts without matching
spending cuts on basis of being told something more optimistic than having
to pay it later *plus interest*.

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 3:31 pm
From: don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein)

In <a5cf5b29-a16c-4457-93c6-350154a37f9c@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
sarge137 wrote:

>On Jun 27, 3:40 pm, d...@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
>
>>   This sort of BS is one of the reasons why people demand politicians
>> passing laws telling business operators how to run their businesses.  If
>> businesses (more like the notably verminous subset thereof; there are
>> plenty of upright and benevolent businesses) did better at playing fair
>> and doing the right thing, then some lawyers would have to find other
>> lines of work and the news media would need to become a little less like
>> vermin than they are now in order to justify their (now very necessary)
>> existence on serving public good.
>>
>>  - Don Klipstein (d...@misty.com)
>
>Absolutely right, Don. I'm the kind of guy who, if I saw an apparent
>difference in the size and/or price to actually look at the unit price
>label, would have the manager of that store standing in front of that
>product and ask him/her just exactly how I'm supposed to to do a
>proper price comparison. I'd also ask if they wanted to keep my
>business, and what the consumer reporter at the local TV station would
>think of the practice. Somebody's gotta do it. :-)

More power to you!

Next time I see BS as blatent as the more blatant that I have seen, I
will see if the consumer reporters at any of my local news stations are
interested!

Sadly, all too many businesses now have "no photography" rules.
Thankfully, I don't notice supermarkets stooping so low yet. I just wish
that our politicians were not elected so much on basis campaign budgets
funded by them selling themselves to those buying them.
But now that many cellphones have cameras and photo transmission means
and there are also many othervery miniature cameras available, I suspect
that if Aericans cared enough to be *capable* freedom loving outlaws that
they were back in Phobition days, we *should be able to* fight against
BS marketing practices even if our elected officials are not on our side,
and even where the news media is too badly fluff supposedly being on our
side while actually avoiding doing so (in order to keep getting ad revenue
from those that deserve to be exposed).

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 4:39 pm
From: "Lou"

"sarge137" <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a1919ffc-ab39-49d0-94cb-d1a9fb89bdc9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Interesting. We shop at two different stores on a regular basis. A
> Kroger chain store and a military commissary. In both cases every
> beverage (water, soft drinks, fruit juice, etc) they sell is unit
> priced per ounce, regardless of the packaging or volume of the
> package. In fact, I don't remember ever seeing a unit price shelf
> label that wasn't expressed per pound or ounce so long as the label on
> the product is expressed in those terms (which is pretty much
> everything on their shelves). Even the OTC drugs they sell are unit
> labeled per dose.

I remember years ago, standing in the supermarket aisle, trying to decide on
a container of furniture polish. At the time, we used Pledge, there was no
question about what brand I was going to buy. But which size? There was an
assortment of sizes that were aerosol cans, and the unit price was given per
ounce - easy enough to figure out which size was the most economical. But
there was also another set of offerings that were not pressurized
containers - they had a pump sprayer, like what you see on a Windex bottle.
The unit price for the pump sprayer was given in pounds. Again, easy enough
to figure out what was the most economical pump sprayer. But impossible to
tell if the pressurized can or the pump spray was the most better buy. Up
to that point, I had thought that the point of unit pricing was to make that
comparison possible - after all, what I was buying was furniture polish, and
it was the same product in each container.

> I guess I don't understand the compulsion to buy what's cheapest visa-
> a-vis what's best (a matter of personal opinion). In most cases you'd
> have to buy in pretty large quantities for the difference to matter
> much. For example: We eat canned albacore tuna packed in water. Our
> regular grocery store carries three national brands. We've tried all
> of them, and I personally see no difference, but my wife has a
> preference which happens to be the most expensive. The price per
> ounce between the cheapest and most expensive is about 15 percent.
> Not enough to matter given the volume of the stuff we buy. She buys
> what she likes.

True. I'll buy what I like - what I personally consider "best". But I
don't see any reason to pay more for it than I have to. For instance, we
use Minute Maid frozen orange juice concentrate - tried all the other brands
available locally, and that's what we like the best. But this stuff comes
in a variety of sizes, small cans and medium cans and large cans at least.
One week, the small can might be the best buy, another week it might be the
large can. I'll buy whichever size is the best buy that week. If your wife
likes a certain brand of canned tuna, there's nothing wrong with buying that
brand - it's your money after all. But if one size costs 10% more than
another size of the preferred brand, why not get the more economical size?
Maybe it doesn't make much difference, but it doesn't take any effort
either.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 8:14 pm
From: Tim Smith

In article <slrng6aqh5.rbp.don@manx.misty.com>,
don@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
> Sadly, all too many businesses now have "no photography" rules.
> Thankfully, I don't notice supermarkets stooping so low yet. I just wish
> that our politicians were not elected so much on basis campaign budgets
> funded by them selling themselves to those buying them.
> But now that many cellphones have cameras and photo transmission means
> and there are also many othervery miniature cameras available, I suspect
> that if Aericans cared enough to be *capable* freedom loving outlaws that
> they were back in Phobition days, we *should be able to* fight against
> BS marketing practices even if our elected officials are not on our side,
> and even where the news media is too badly fluff supposedly being on our
> side while actually avoiding doing so (in order to keep getting ad revenue
> from those that deserve to be exposed).

I don't think a store would dare try to ban cellphones, so the hell with
"no photography" rules.

Consider this situation. You want to by an item. You want to buy it
locally, because you want it *now*. But you have no particular
preference going in as to brand, or where you want to buy it. So, you
want to do a little research, then go buy one.

Here's one approach. Go the websites of your local retailers (Target,
Sears, Walmart, Bestbuy, and so on), and find their offerings. Google
some of the more interesting ones, then see what store has the best
price, and go buy it. Oops...the store is out of stock of that
model...now what has that second choice again...?

OK, approach #2. While at the "retailer website" stage, check to see
which models are in stock at your local store, so you can limit yourself
to them. Problem: some stores don't show local stock. Problem: even if
the website lets you look up stock information, they may have vastly
more items available online than your local store stocks, so it can be
very time consuming to find them.

Finally, the approach I'm using next time. Go to each store. Find the
items they have in stock. Take photos. Go home, load photos onto
computer, and view them, to find the makes, model numbers, and prices.
Research those online specifically, not wasting my time with all the
ones the store does NOT have in stock. Pick one, and go buy it.

--
--Tim Smith

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 8:25 pm
From: Tim Smith

In article
<a1919ffc-ab39-49d0-94cb-d1a9fb89bdc9@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
sarge137 <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Absolutely right! But, another example of a feel good law with no
> real intention of enforcement. Take a look at some of the discussions
> of the National Do Not Call Registry you can find in the groups.

The DNC registry seems to have worked pretty well for me. When it went
into effect, the number of sales calls I received went WAY down. Now
the only unsolicited calls I receive are:

1. Politicians.

2. Charities.

3. DirectTV. I was a subscriber. I was happy with their service, but
switched to Comcast because I was switching from DSL to cable for
internet (I was NOT happy with Sprint, my DSL provider--about once every
3 months, the latency to the gateway would jump to 3000 ms, and it would
take several days to get them to admit it was their problem and fix it)
(And yes, I could prove it was their problem). And since the only
reason I had Sprint for phone service was to get their DSL, I switched
that to Comcast, too. By switching TV, I could get a good deal on the
bundle, and I was curious to try HDTV (my view of the DirectTV HDTV
satellite was blocked). So, they are allowed to try to call me--and
they might even succeed in getting me back, as Comcast's DVR is really
pissing me off now! :-)

4. Wrong numbers. Mostly collection agencies looking for people who had
my number long before me, or people who had my address long before me.

So I'd have to say DNC has been very successful.

--
--Tim Smith

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 9:07 pm
From: Scott in SoCal

In message <g423ig$b8i$1@news.parasun.com>, Jack Bauer
<jb@nowhere.com> wrote:

>I have been in several different stores trying to figure out the unit
>pricing on bottled water. They will have all different sizes and
>brands, but in the end they are all just bottles containing water,
>right? But the unit pricing is by the each, liter, ounce, you name it!
> Whatever units they can come up with to make it all more confusing.
>You can't compare.
>
>And the WHOLE POINT of unit pricing, as they told us back in the 70's,
>is that it SHOULD NOT take a college grad with a slide rule or
>calculator to figure this stuff out. You should be able to look at all
>the similar products and quickly figure out which is cheapest based on
>the unit pricing shown on the labels.
>
>But you can't. So who do we contact to enforce the unit pricing laws?

You contact the store manager and tell him you won't be shopping at
his store anymore. Be sure to tell him why, and that you'll be doing
all your future shopping at <name of competitor> who DOES have
easy-to-understand unit pricing labels on his shelves.

That's the only way to change things. As long as everyone continues to
spend their money at stores like these, they have no incentive to
change anything abut the way they do business.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: German Shepherd Dog Breed
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/596e60a4864ac49b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 3:37 pm
From: "vaticans.org"

When choosing a dog, breed intelligence and temperament, among other
things, are important considerations. If you already have a dog, how
does your breed measure up?

Intelligence can be measured in more ways than one. Problem solving
ability and instinctive ability are important qualities in a dog but,
when tested in obedience alone, a dog trainers'survey produced some
interesting results. When dog breeds were temperament tested by the
American Temperament Testing Society, even more surprising results
were recorded.

Alfons Ertel established the American Temperament Testing Society
(ATTS) in 1977. The test simulates a casual walk through a park and
focuses on stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as
well as the dog's instinct for protectiveness toward its handler, and/
or self-preservation. The test is for all breeds and is uniform
throughout the country. Approximately one thousand test events have
been held, with 26,615 dogs tested as of December 2005 and 21,615 dogs
have earned TT titles.

Listed below, in order, are dog breeds that understood new commands in
less than 5 repetitions and obeyed first commands 95% of the time or
better, along with their ATTS passing percentage.

1. Border collie, 79.7%
2. Poodle, 76.2%
3. German Shepherd, 83.1%
4. Golden Retriever, 83.7%
5. Doberman, 76.8%
6. Shetland Sheepdog, 66.9%
7. Labrador Retriever, 91.4%
8. Papillon, 79.7%
9. Rottweiler, 82.5%
10. Australian Cattle Dog, 78.1%
Listed below, in order, are breeds that understood new commands in 5
to 15 repetitions and obeyed first commands 85% of the time or better,
along with their ATTS passing percentage.
11. Pembroke Welsh Corgi, 78%
12. Miniature Schnauzer, 78.6%
13. English Springer Spaniel, 84.3%
14. Belgian Tervuren, 77.1%
15. Schipperke, 91.2%Belgian Sheepdog, 79.7%
16. Collie, 79%Keeshond, 80.2%
17. German Shorthaired Pointer, 75.9%
18. Flat-coated Retriever, 91.5%English Cocker Spaniel, 93.2%Standard
Schnauzer, 66.1%
19. Brittany Spaniel, 90.3%
20. Cocker Spaniel, 81.7%
21. Weimaraner, 79.4%
22. Belgian Malinois, 90.2%Bernese Mountain Dog, 85.8%
23. Pomeranian, 75%
24. Irish Water Spaniel, 88.5%
25. Vizsla, 82.6%
26. Cardigan Welsh Corgi, 75.9%
Other Breeds of Interest and their ATTS Passing Percentages
Standard Smooth Dachshund, 66.7%
Boston Terrier, 86.2%
Beagle, 79.7%
Dalmation, 81.6%
Chihuahua, 67%
American Staffordshire Terrier, 83.3%
American Pit Bull Terrier, 83.5%
Mixed Breeds, 85.4%

www.dunhill-dogs.com/german-shepherd-dog-breed.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 4:02 pm
From: clams_casino

vaticans.org wrote:

>When choosing a dog, breed intelligence and temperament, among other
>things, are important considerations.
>

I didn't know you ate dogs in India.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many here own food freezer?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/79858a8bd8f90308?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 4:08 pm
From: sarge137

On Jun 26, 9:26 am, Nicodemus <Ancient-of-D...@Heaven.net> wrote:
.
>
> This begs the question..what about them vacuum seal bags..they say by
> removing the air the meat stays longer.

They do. I've been using a basic Food Saver brand vacuum sealer for
several years now. I buy very large packages of meat and fish at
Costco. I also buy five pound bags of frozen veggies and potatoes.
Everything gets broken down, vacuumed in smaller quantities and
frozen. I try to use everything in 6 months or less. But have used
meat as old 8 months, and veggies as old as a year with no apparent
loss of quality or flavor.

I grilled a rib eye last weekend that had been in my freezer since
January. After it defrosted in the fridge over night it looked just
as fresh as if I'd brought it home from the grocery that day. I'll
guarantee that if had been stored in the best quality zip lock
"freezer bag" for that long it would have been so freezer burned it
would have been dog food.

>.the next question in my my mind is
> the added cost of vacuum bags..the whole thing just cascaded into a
> mathematicians nightmare.

Yes they cost a bit more. But, the difference isn't a mathematical
nightmare. In fact, it's nickels and dimes, and more than off set by
the extended storage time and additional money saved by buying in
bulk. If you want to be really obsessive about it, you can wash and
reuse them. Have never done that myself, but the manufacturer claims
it's OK.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 5:28 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:08:59 -0700 (PDT), sarge137
<rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I grilled a rib eye last weekend that had been in my freezer since
>January. After it defrosted in the fridge over night it looked just
>as fresh as if I'd brought it home from the grocery that day. I'll
>guarantee that if had been stored in the best quality zip lock
>"freezer bag" for that long it would have been so freezer burned it
>would have been dog food.

Another freezer trick is to water-pack food. My brother picked up the
habit of doing this with fish, which are notorious for getting freezer
burn. If the food is frozen in a block of ice, there is no freezer
burn. You have to hold it under running water to remove the ice
before regular thawing, but the freshness and flavor are there, plus
the fish don't smell up the other items in the freezer or take on odd
flavors.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: china a specializing burberry prada fendi puma sneakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/25f6df73026a3b8d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Helen's DaveCon 2008 Trip Report, Photos
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/1203627e7a96c37c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jun 27 2008 8:13 pm
From: Saku Pitkänen

MTV uutiset 28.04-08. Jopas meinasin tuoliltani tippua, kun MTV kommentoi,
miten maailmaamme nyt raateleva nälänhätäkehitys on saamassa aiemmin täällä
vedätetyn eilisen riisilajipulan sijaan uutta megalomaniaansa. Eli nyt jo
alkaa kummasti irrota vihdoin viimein suorastaan pöyristyttävää faktaa, kun
on PAKKO. Sanottiin SUORAAN syyksi, ettei maailman poliitiset systeemit ole
huomioimneet maaseutua sikamaisesti lainkaan! Tämä on tietysti siltä osin
totta, että maaseudun poliittinen ja rikollinen terrorisointi on tuhonut
paljon. Eli politiikkaa nyt kaupataan selkeänä osasyynä maailmanlaajuiseen
tulevaan ruokakatastrofiin. Kas kun kukaan ei riisirehuja eläimille anna,
eikä myös Suomi ole poltellut ruokiaan bienergiaksi, kuten tähän asti on
aina valehdeltu. Edes etanoliriisejä ei ole tehty!

Mutta raakaan faktaan, maailmalla on jo kuulema 37 maata nälkäkatastrofissa
nyt! Vaikka vasta eilen oli USA:ssa vain "mitätön" väliaikainen säännöstelyn
hupailu. Päivän päästä maailmassa on 37 maata nälkämellakoissa. Lieneekö
siis takana maailman rajuin nälän yö.. ? Vai onko nämä mun esillä pitämät
salatut maailmanlaajuiset nälkäkatastrofit tieten pidetty ydintyyliimme
Suomen tiedotusmonopolien poliittisesta syystä tarkoin piilossa! jottei vaan
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Mutta yhä mua hämmästyttää miksi edelleen vaietaan siitä miksi meremme
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muuten eteen myös se päivä jolloin näille kaikelle on myös TEHTÄVÄ jotain!
Ja yhtä varmaa on myös se, että ydinalan on myös aika myöntää itsensä
syylliseksi supersalattuun ydinmaavikoitumistuhoaaltoon joka jo lupaavasti
orastaa. Edessä siis jänniä vuosia!

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