Frugal Living: 23 new messages in 15 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

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Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 2:52 pm
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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 3:47 pm
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 3:01 pm
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TOPIC: temporary health insurance for a recent graduate
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca3c7cbfde6133a7?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 3:22 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:09:46 GMT, Gordon <gonzo@alltomyself.com>
wrote:

>P <temp@temp.com> wrote in
>news:141kpse7ti1ck$.1yucnhfn9jrf.dlg@40tude.net:
>
>> I have just graduated, am 24 yrs old with a Body Mass Index of 20, no
>> health issues. I have started looking for full time jobs, but until I
>> get coverage through my employer I want to have some sort of coverage
>> for catastrophic matters. I cannot come under my parent's coverage(as
>> they are self-employed so have to get their own). I can work for some
>> place(WalMart, McDonald) full time to get coverage, but I would rather
>> spend all my time searching for jobs than working at those places just
>> for the sake of health insurance. Working full time at one job will
>> reduce the available time to job searching.
>>
>> I have browsed the web and talked to a few agents, but the more agents
>> I talk to the more confused I become as to which plan to choose. Some
>> offer a premium of 100/month and some as low as 30/month(which have a
>> high deductible of 2500 and which cannot be considered credible
>> coverage) if I get a position(as told by the plan agent).
>>
>> Is it better to get a premium of 100/month or the one with 30/month
>> would be fine? I generally visit the doctor once a year, don't have
>> glasses.
>>
>> I would appreciate any advice and I am presently in Florida, U.S.
>>
>
>As a young man (or woman, you didn't say) in good health you are
>probably not going to have any health problems that will need
>critical care. I would almost argue that you don't need health
>insurance.
>
>What you need to do is figure out what you want your insurance
>to cover. Comprehensive coverage (that pays for everything)
>will come with a high price tag. On the other hand, if you
>are willing to pay for some of the basics, you can get catastophic
>coverage (major medical) that pays for only the realy big bad
>expensive stuff.

That covers the basics, Gordon. I have to add a few things, based on
the system the way it is now.

Number one, I would be only looking for catastrophic coverage with the
possibility of adding features later. As you point out, the chances
are that nothing (short of a traffic accident which would be covered
under auto insurance) will happen in the short term.

Number two, at that age especially, I would ONLY be looking at plans
that are valid in a number of states, meaning truly transportable.
BC/BS plans can be state specific, small insurers may only be licensed
in one or two states and have minimal reserves. With the possibility
of having to move because of job opportunities, it is important that
the insurance can follow. That leads into #3-

Number three, I would KEEP MY OWN insurance, no matter how much the
cost or trivial the payouts, EVEN IF THE EMPLOYER OFFERED INSURANCE.
Why? At age 24 a person can find a policy that is multi-state,
non-cancellable, and has a low rate. Once the first year of payments
have been made, there is generally no exclusion for "pre-existing"
conditions. Why is this important? Let's say the OP develops
diabetes or a heart condition is detected at age 26 and he or she is
only covered by the employer's insurance. Now lets say the OP quits,
gets fired, or the company goes out of business within five years (the
chances of one of these happening is well over 50% IME). The OP is
now shit outta luck. There is no COBRA if the company goes out of
business, and finding a new insurance company that will cover the
biggies like diabetes, heart ailments, and depression will be
***IMPOSSIBLE*** at that time except at greatly inflated rates.
Insurers only want to insure well people.

The whole concept of employer supplied insurance is totally flawed
from the point of view of a worker. First, the savings vs having your
own policy, if in good health, are minimal. Employers know that
offering insurance allows them to offer less as a salary and, if their
hiring choice of employees is right, keep their contributory costs at
a minimum. Secondly, and because of this, use of the employer's
policy raises flags in most companies and in some small companies can
lead to termination (often for some trumped-up other reason). Third,
the insurance becomes a club that the employer can hold over the head
of the employee to keep them from asking for a raise or even quitting.
Fourth, it allows at least the gatekeeper (usually human resources) at
the company to pry into personal medical history. Fifth, companies
can and do eliminate insurance plans as dictated by their own
financial needs. Sixth, a single sick worker in a small company can
create a rate hike for all workers. Seventh, fighting with the
insurance company for fair payments of expenses becomes tantamount to
fighting with the employer.

What the OP needs to find is an insurer that is solid and has been
around for a while, has a policy that covers a large group and is
NON_CANCELLABLE, and is transportable across state lines. The OP
should then plan on keeping that policy until retirement.

Mark my words, there are thousands and thousands of people who have
depended on insurance from employers, found themselves out on the
street, had financial disaster, and lost a lifetime of savings, all
because they couldn't afford healthcare.

The final caveat is that the OP must be brutally honest in the
original application and list every doctor visited, every prescription
filled, and make absolutely sure that there are no problems not listed
on the application. It is a lot more profitable for an insurance
company to accept an application that lies, and then only do the due
diligence once a disease or event has occured, denying coverage, and
cancelling the policy at the worst possible time. It can even pay the
applicant to get an independent physical from a doctor (including
x-rays and full blood work), certifying that there are no apparent
problems as of the date of application.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 8:14 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <z9KdnYtIyagPDxfanZ2dnUVZ_jydnZ2d@comcast.com>,
Goomba38 <Goomba38@comcast.net> wrote:

> clams_casino wrote:
>
> > I fully agree. If you are a healthy young male, your likeliness of
> > having a significant medical problem is nearly negligible (other than
> > perhaps via traffic or job related accident, which should be covered
> > elsewhere)
> >
> > If you feel uneasy about having no coverage, I'd suggest the low premium
> > / high deductible coverage if that helps you to sleep better.
>
> What insurance other than medical would cover him if he had a major auto
> accident and he was at fault? Everyone should cover themselves for such
> major hospitalization if nothing else, IMO. It should also cover that
> odd appendix and the like.
> The low premium, high deductible is ideal for a man this age.

Or an accident like spraining an ankle while playing tennis or some
other active sport?

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 8:56 pm
From: Goomba38

Shawn Hirn wrote:

>> What insurance other than medical would cover him if he had a major auto
>> accident and he was at fault? Everyone should cover themselves for such
>> major hospitalization if nothing else, IMO. It should also cover that
>> odd appendix and the like.
>> The low premium, high deductible is ideal for a man this age.
>
> Or an accident like spraining an ankle while playing tennis or some
> other active sport?

I wouldn't worry so much about those. I don't think a couple of xrays
and a 'script for pain meds for that sprained ankle will break the bank.
A major car accident can.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 9:55 pm
From: Logan Shaw

P wrote:
> I have browsed the web and talked to a few agents, but the more agents I
> talk to the more confused I become as to which plan to choose. Some offer a
> premium of 100/month and some as low as 30/month(which have a high
> deductible of 2500 and which cannot be considered credible coverage) if I
> get a position(as told by the plan agent).

First of all, the insurance industry doesn't go to very much trouble
to make anything understandable. You pretty much have to learn what
the heck is going on by personal experience or by a lot of reading or
asking questions.

Nevertheless, there are some basic questions you can ask that help
you understand policies and compare them to each other. These are,
to me, the essential differences between insurance policies. The
questions are:

1. Does this insurance let you choose your own doctor?
2. Does the insurance pay for office visits and major
problems (like hospital stays or surgery), or does
it just pay for major problems?
3. Are there specific issues that the insurance excludes?
4. How much does it cost?
5. What is the lifetime maximum amount they'll ever pay out?
6. What is the deductible?
7. What is annual out-of-pocket maximum?
8. What is the co-pay percentage?
9. What kind of paperwork is necessary, what is the claims
process, and does the doctor submit the paperwork for
you or do you have to do it all yourself and then get
reimbursed by submitting a claim on your own?
10. What kinds of prescription drugs do they cover?
11. What is the rating of the company, i.e. what are the
chances it will have financial problems?

Regarding #1, there are generally three types of plans. With
a "traditional plan", you can choose any doctor, and the
insurance company pays for whatever services you choose.
With a PPO ("preferred provider") plan, the insurance company
negotiates a contract with a bunch of doctors, and you can go
see a doctor they've negotiated contracts (and discounts!)
with, or you can see your own choice of doctor but they cover
only a bit of that. And finally, with an HMO, the insurance
company runs everything and you get no choice at all about
what doctor you get.

About #3, some insurance companies will include or exclude
certain things from coverage. One area where this varies a
lot is mental health care. Let's say you suffer from major
depression or bipolar disorder or something. Some insurance
companies will let you go see the psychologist/psychiatrist
all you want, and some will only let you see them 5 times a
year or some crazy low amount. Other areas besides mental
health have the same sorts of variations too.

Regarding #8, basically the idea with a co-pay is that until
you reach your out-of-pocket maximum for a year, they'll pay
75% and you pay 25% or something.

Anyway, for a young person who is in good health, generally
speaking you just want catastrophic coverage. There are
two basic purposes to health insurance: one is to help defray
the costs of things you have to do regularly (like medication
you might be on, or a condition that requires you to see the
doctor every few months), and the other is to make sure that
if something major happens (like if you get cancer), they
will cover the $500,000 or whatever it may take to treat it.

Generally, as a young person with no known health problems or
risk factors for them, you benefit most by covering the major
problems and not worrying at all about the minor issues and
what kinds of doctor's visits are covered.

That means that insurance with a $5000 annual deductible and
a $2,000,000 lifetime maximum is probably preferable to
insurance with a $1000 annual deductible and a $1,000,000
lifetime maximum, if they're both the same price. You
generally don't care if doctor's visits are covered, you
don't care how much your co-pay on prescription drugs is,
you probably don't care about whether several random
miscellaneous things are excluded. Basically, all you care
about is the question, "If I get cancer and it takes a million
dollars to treat it, am I covered?". You can get a policy
that allows you to answer "yes", and you can probably do it
for a relatively low price.

- Logan

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Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 4:42 pm
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 7:31 pm
From: "friesian@zoocrewphoto.com"

On Jan 8, 8:20 pm, The Real Bev <bashley101+use...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't even play a vet on TV but I truly can not imagine an animal
> choosing to starve rather than eat something it finds less than perfect,
> especially something as focused on its own survival as a cat. I can
> believe that a near-death cat might be too tired to eat, though...

Older cats lose their interest in food in general. It takes a lot more
to stimulate their pappetite. Yes, they will turn down food that used
to be their favorite food.

Also, cats who stop eating (for any reason) and don't start eating on
their own within a few days can get sick and die of fatty liver
syndrome. They require medication and/or forced feeding to restart the
appetite. It is very dangerous if a cat stops eating. The physical
response from not eating actually makes them sick and not want to
eat.

I have also seen a dog who would rather go without food than cross
linoleum floor. She had multiple fears when I got her, and she would
pace back and forth for hours while the food bowl was only 2 feet in
front of her. We were told she would get over it, but even after
several hours of pacing, she would not cross it. If we put her on the
linoleum, she would stiffen up and shake.

Sometimes, survival instincts are overuled by fears or physical
issues.

>
> My daughter's cat is 17. He's eaten whatever Costco sells in 50-pound
> bags all his life and seems to be in perfect health -- at least he can
> still wake up and beat the shit out of the Dachshund if it makes
> injudicious moves too close to him.

Maynard was great at age 17 too. He died 10 days before his 19th
birthday. He had liver failure, and showed signs only 3 days before he
died.

He did lose weight a lot over the past year, so I had to give him a
lot of special foods and heat them so that the smell was stronger.

I'm not wishing anything bad on you, but eventually, you will find
that your cat does not eat as eagerly, and the weight loss will begin.
It is very common in older cats, and you will find that he will turn
down food that he has always liked.

I would not have been feeding Kira food that later ended up on the
recall list if she had continued to eat food that she liked for the
previous 12 years. But when they start turning their nose at
everything, and you see them lose 2 lbs (when they only weighed 8 lbs
to begin with), you know you have to find something else for them to
eat.

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TOPIC: Royal Bank of Canada, (RBC Centura) : Corporate Bully
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 13 2008 8:38 pm
From: corporatebully

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20).Women shoes Women Jordans Women Shox R3 Women Shox R4 Women AirMax
95&97 Women AirMax 03&06 Women Dunk Women Shox NZ Women AF1
21).sandal & baboosh Nike Puma Gucci Prada
CLOTHES 1).Bape 2).ED Hardy 3).BBC 4).CLH 5).LRG 6).Artful Dodger
Hoodies 7).GINO GREEN GLOBAL 8).10 Deep 9).A&F Coat 11).Jersey NBA
Jersey Football Jersey 12).Juicy Bikini 13).Adidas Coat 14).F1 Coat
15).D&G Coat 16).Superman Coat 17).NBA Coat
JEAN 1).E&D Jeans 2).BBC Jeans 3).BAPE Jeans 4).D&G Jeans 5).EVSIU
Jeans 6).Red monkey 7).COOGI Jeans
T-shirt 1).POLO 2007 polo(women) 2007 POLO IIII(Men) POLO (stripe)
polo (small )
2).Lacoste Lacoste (LONG) Lacoste (SHORT) 3).Name Brand shirt D&G
Shirt Giorgio Armani TN Shirt 4).BBC T-shirt 5).LRG & gina green
glalal 6).Triumvir 7).ED handy 8).Evsiu 9).R.M.B 10).CLOT
Burse & Handbag 1).LV Bag 2).Gucci Bag 3).Dior Bag 4).Chanel Bag
5).Fendi Bag 6).Coach Bag 7).Burberrys Bag 8).Prada Bag 9).Man Leisure
Bag 11).D&G bag 12).nike bag 13).Wallet 14).Suitcase
Electronics 1).Vertu Mobile 2).New iphone Mobile(apple iphones,apple
iphones,apple iphones,apple iphones) 3).Nokia Mobile(Nokia N95,Nokia
N95 Nokia N95 Nokia N95 Nokia N93,Nokia N70,Nokia N92,Nokia 8800)
4).moto Mobile 5).PSP Game & memory card 6).Sony Mobile 7).Samsung
Mobile 8).Ipod nano 9).Sony PS3 10).Laptops IBM laptops DELL laptops
Sony laptops ASUS laptops
CAP 1).ED Hardy Cap 2).New Bape & NY Cap 3).RMC Cap 4).New era NBA
5).F1 6).Chanel 7).D&G 8).gucci 9).LV 10).Prada 11).PUMA 12).wool
WATCH 1).Rolex 2).Omega 3).Cartier 4).Chanel 5).Piaget 6).Breitling
7).Bvlgari 8).Corum
Sunglasses 1).Gucci Sunglasses 2).D&G Sunglasses 3).Dior Sunglasses
4).LV Sunglasses 5).Chanel Sunglasses 6).Prada Sunglasses 7).Versace
Sunglasses 8).Giorgio Armani
Strap 1).Bape Strap 2).D&G Strap 3).Gucci Strap 4).LV Strap 5).Scarf
Other 1).Lighter

size chart
Men Size:
US: 7 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 13 14 15
UK: 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 12 13 14
EUR: 40 41 42 42.5 43 44 44.5 45 45.5 46 47.5 48 49
Women Size:
US: 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5
UK: 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 5.5 6
EUR: 35.5 36 36.5 37.5 38 38.5 39 40

Kid's
US: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5
UK: 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5
EUR:17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 24.5 25 25.5 26 26.5 27 27.5 28 29 30 30.5
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