Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 12 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Resurgence of telemarketers and telephishers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/132159bd102f1747?hl=en
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== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:13 pm
From: "Chloe"

<hchickpea@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dhnvo39oag49ktptc19kl193a8g407ans2@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:22:22 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>>doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>>often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
>> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>>with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
>>threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
>>days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
>>$250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
>>$100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
>> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>>practices.
>
> George, these aren't legit companies that are calling, that is part of
> the point. These are criminals who are trying to get credit card
> numbers so they can commit credit card fraud. I've tried getting
> information, but as soon as they get a question that lets them know
> they could get caught, they hang up. I've scoured the net and no-one
> seems to have been able to have any success in finding an address or
> even legit call-back number.
>
> When it is a legit company, your tactic can work. When it isn't, and
> the call is untraceable, and the phone company and government don't do
> anything about it, it shows the absolute powerlessness of them to
> thrwart penny-ante hackers and criminals, much less terrorists.
>
> With the number of calls reported on the net, all with the same M.O.,
> what is going on is an organized ring of crooks making a mockery of
> the system. Unfortunately, it takes high-tech tools and access to the
> system to find these assholes, so the consumer is S.O.o.L.

I don't understand why you're even talking to them long enough to know
they're trying to get a credit card number. I just say "not
interested"--because I'm such a courteous person, dontcha know, and hang up.

== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:17 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

George Grapman wrote:
> phone on them. When they say,yes" I explain that those people did them a
> favor and allowed them to find another victim whereas a person like me
> with no intention of buying prevented them from calling potential
> victims. I then hit the mute button and listen to them curse. Even
> funnier when they think no one heard them. One call like that can ruin
> their day.

I feel really sorry for people like you who think that it is okay to
abuse innocent people.

> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
> doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
> often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".

Maybe they don't *know* what company they are telemarketing for. Maybe
they aren't allowed to say and have to refer people to a supervisor.

> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them with
> small claims court.

Most of them are out of state, but suing the company is a more effective
way of shutting them down than abusing the employees, which is
equivalent to abusing a waitress because the cook messed up your order.
The only difference is that those people are too cowardly to abuse
someone to their face when the problem is not their fault.

> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
> practices.

And if 100% of the people refused to buy from or even talk to
telemarketers, it would put them out of business even faster.
--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:34 pm
From: George Grapman

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> George Grapman wrote:
>> phone on them. When they say,yes" I explain that those people did them
>> a favor and allowed them to find another victim whereas a person like
>> me with no intention of buying prevented them from calling potential
>> victims. I then hit the mute button and listen to them curse. Even
>> funnier when they think no one heard them. One call like that can ruin
>> their day.
>
> I feel really sorry for people like you who think that it is okay to
> abuse innocent people.

Two times in my life I worked in offices that were scams and whose
only purpose was to get a quick payment from a person. I figured out
what was going on very quickly ,quit and notified the proper authorities.
>
>> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>> doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>> often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
>
> Maybe they don't *know* what company they are telemarketing for. Maybe
> they aren't allowed to say and have to refer people to a supervisor.
>

Some of my early jobs were very low level ,albeit honest,
telemarketing jobs. I never has one where I was told not to give the
name of the company,the address or phone number. One has to be extremely
clueless not to question a policy that prohibits revealing those basic
facts especially when they are asking for a credit card.
>> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>> with small claims court.
>
> Most of them are out of state, but suing the company is a more effective
> way of shutting them down than abusing the employees, which is
> equivalent to abusing a waitress because the cook messed up your order.
> The only difference is that those people are too cowardly to abuse
> someone to their face when the problem is not their fault.
>
>> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>> practices.
>
> And if 100% of the people refused to buy from or even talk to
> telemarketers, it would put them out of business even faster.

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 7:21 pm
From: Anthony Matonak

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> sarge137 wrote:
>> Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
>> with them.
>
> Would you do the same thing with a cashier at a fast-food joint?

Would you do the same thing to a mugger or a burglar?

> The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
> usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
> have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
> they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real story.

Sure, the guy who pulls a knife on you and demands your money is so
desperate that they have to do something they hate to make ends meet.
This doesn't make it right or legal. This doesn't mean this guy should
be treated the same as people who do not steal.

Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
citizens.

Anthony

== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:18 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:11:25 -0800, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:

>The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
>usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
>have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
>they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real
>story.

No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.

The problem with these calls is not only that they are illegal from
the DNC standpoint, but more importantly, they are an attempt to gain
information for illegal purposes and to the detriment of the person
being called. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when a
"company" is engaged in such tactics. The people doing the calling
are not desparate unskilled workers, but scum of the earth types with
no sense of morals.

Many years ago, when I lived in Vermont and between jobs, the state
employment office was sending people to interviews with a company that
had sloppy ethics. Within fifteen minutes, out of a crowd of about
thirty people, the "interviewer" had singled out five of us who had
raised eyebrows or questions, told us we weren't right for the work,
and asked us to leave.

== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:20 pm
From: George Grapman

Anthony Matonak wrote:
> Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
>> sarge137 wrote:
>>> Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
>>> with them.
>>
>> Would you do the same thing with a cashier at a fast-food joint?
>
> Would you do the same thing to a mugger or a burglar?
>
>> The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
>> usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
>> have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many
>> times they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the
>> real story.
>
> Sure, the guy who pulls a knife on you and demands your money is so
> desperate that they have to do something they hate to make ends meet.
> This doesn't make it right or legal. This doesn't mean this guy should
> be treated the same as people who do not steal.
>
> Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
> breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
> That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
> even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
> citizens.
>
> Anthony
Exactly. When, call after call, you are told that the person you
called is on the Do Not Call law and asks why you are breaking that law
you have to know that you are breaking the law.
When you are asking for peoples credit card information and are told
not to give out any details about your location or employer you have to
know something is wrong.
As I noted most of my jobs have been in sales and I could not imagine
refusing to give out such information.

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:54 pm
From: George Grapman

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:11:25 -0800, Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to
> reply <mmeahan@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
>
>> The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
>> usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
>> have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
>> they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real
>> story.
>
> No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
> robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
> states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.
>
> The problem with these calls is not only that they are illegal from
> the DNC standpoint, but more importantly, they are an attempt to gain
> information for illegal purposes and to the detriment of the person
> being called. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when a
> "company" is engaged in such tactics. The people doing the calling
> are not desparate unskilled workers, but scum of the earth types with
> no sense of morals.
>
> Many years ago, when I lived in Vermont and between jobs, the state
> employment office was sending people to interviews with a company that
> had sloppy ethics. Within fifteen minutes, out of a crowd of about
> thirty people, the "interviewer" had singled out five of us who had
> raised eyebrows or questions, told us we weren't right for the work,
> and asked us to leave.
>

At a really desperate point I had a job interview with a collection
agency. The office was real boiler room. While waiting for the interview
I heard things like. "Mr. Jones, have you ever spent time in jail?" and
"Mrs. Smith, if you do not make a payment by Friday we will see that you
are fired from your job". I walked out.
Another time I got a job with a company that said they were selling
ads in the programs of local sports teams.I asked to see some copies to
get an idea and was only given a mock up of a page with prices. I was
told the printer would be sending copies "soon". I was told to offer a
25 percent discount if they paid a courier the same day. The final clue
was when someones phone rang and the manager yelled "We never,ever
answer the phones on the sales desks".
Out the door 15 minutes after I entered.
In the first instance a complaint to the state agency regulating
collection agencies was never answered. In the second case the fraud
unit of the District Attorney returned my call and asked enough things
to indicate they were already looking into this. A few weeks later
there was a story about the owner facing multiple fraud charges.

== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:01 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

Anthony Matonak wrote:
>
> Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
> breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
> That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
> even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
> citizens.

The point is, the person who is calling you does not know that they are
breaking the law, and they are not knowingly breaking it.

When my oldest son had a paper route and started messing up big-time,
his customers started calling me and cursing a blue streak in *my* ear.
I tried to get them to call the newspaper and complain or to wait
until he got home and curse a blue streak in *his* ear, and none of them
would do that.

It wasn't my fault that he wasn't delivering papers properly. In fact,
I had tried to tell him that he needed to get on the ball again and he
ignored me. Their yelling at me did not get their newspaper delivered
on time, as (A) it was not my responsibility to get it delivered on
time, and (B) the person whose responsibility it was was not listening
to me.

It was not right, fair, or proper for those customers to be abusing me
for something that was not my fault. Neither is it right, proper, or
fair for you to abuse the telemarketer who calls you for something that
is not their fault.

And if you were smart enough to get out of the telemarketing job, more
power to you. Not everybody has those options.

No, I am not a telemarketer, but I have known a few and understand their
plight.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:04 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
> robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
> states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.

There are currently a bunch of jobs offered to people these days to be
payment or package processors. These innocent people are told that they
receive payments or packages as a central receiving source and then
forward them on to the appropriate person.

Then the police knock on their doors and arrest them for defrauding
people by credit card or taking money in an advance-fee type of scam.

They may be part of the problem, and legally they are accountable, but
sometimes they are ignorant and have been scammed just as much as the
people who had their money stolen.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:53 pm
From: George Grapman

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> Anthony Matonak wrote:
>>
>> Telemarketers who don't honor the 'do not call' list (in the USA) are
>> breaking the law and people working for them are also breaking the law.
>> That makes them all criminals. Criminals who are trying to screw you,
>> even if it's only over the telephone, should not be treated like honest
>> citizens.
>
> The point is, the person who is calling you does not know that they are
> breaking the law, and they are not knowingly breaking it.

How many times does someone have to be told "I am on the do not call
list, you are violating the law" before they get a clue?
>
> When my oldest son had a paper route and started messing up big-time,
> his customers started calling me and cursing a blue streak in *my* ear.
> I tried to get them to call the newspaper and complain or to wait until
> he got home and curse a blue streak in *his* ear, and none of them would
> do that.
>
> It wasn't my fault that he wasn't delivering papers properly. In fact,
> I had tried to tell him that he needed to get on the ball again and he
> ignored me. Their yelling at me did not get their newspaper delivered
> on time, as (A) it was not my responsibility to get it delivered on
> time, and (B) the person whose responsibility it was was not listening
> to me.
>
> It was not right, fair, or proper for those customers to be abusing me
> for something that was not my fault. Neither is it right, proper, or
> fair for you to abuse the telemarketer who calls you for something that
> is not their fault.
>
> And if you were smart enough to get out of the telemarketing job, more
> power to you. Not everybody has those options.
>
> No, I am not a telemarketer, but I have known a few and understand their
> plight.
>

== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:56 pm
From: George Grapman

Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply wrote:
> hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> No, they really are part of the problem. A person who aids in a
>> robbery whare a murder is commited can be charged with murder in many
>> states, even theough the person did not commit the actual act.
>
> There are currently a bunch of jobs offered to people these days to be
> payment or package processors. These innocent people are told that they
> receive payments or packages as a central receiving source and then
> forward them on to the appropriate person.
>
> Then the police knock on their doors and arrest them for defrauding
> people by credit card or taking money in an advance-fee type of scam.
>
> They may be part of the problem, and legally they are accountable, but
> sometimes they are ignorant and have been scammed just as much as the
> people who had their money stolen.
>
Another one is a variation on the Nigerian scam. An overseas company
doing business in the US makes up some reason for needing a dollar based
US bank account and says they can not get one on their own. Simply
accept the deposits and they will give you a generous commission. Please
reply with your name, address, account number and routing information.

== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 10:13 pm
From: "SpammersDie"

> And if 100% of the people refused to buy from or even talk to
> telemarketers, it would put them out of business even faster.

Come back when you have a workable solution.

Hint: A solution that falls apart if 500 million points of failure don't all
perform flawlessly is an idealist's dream, not a workable solution. As is
well evidenced in the human race's continued failure to exterminate these
telemarketing scourge from the planet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Generic Lipitor any time soon?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/aa4400046e779ff1?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:15 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <9sfvo3t2nckur89ee5o4sm223chk6b12v5@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> >The European and U.S. patents are due to expire in 2011. The Canadian patent
> >has expired (in 2007) and branded generic versions of atorvastatin (generic
> >name for Lipitor) can be purchased and shipped through Canadian pharmacies.
> >These pharmacies can be located on the internet along with their toll-free
> >telephone numbers to discuss cost and details of the transactions.
>
> OK will check it out thanks!
>
> >Cost savings of the branded generic is currently about 50% compared to the
> >brand name product through one of these Canadian vendors.
>
> OK...still not as cheap as simvastatin but heck of a
> lot cheaper than Lipitor brand!
>
> I prefer Lipitor because I can take it first thing in
> the morning as its half life is longer than
> simvastatin...... but am unemployed now and can get
> simvastatin CHEAP! But have to take simvastatin in
> evening as its half life isn't as long.
>
> >Ranbaxy Laboratories (headquartered in India) will apparently market the
> >first branded generic version of atorvastatin in the U.S. and will have
> >exclusivity for 180 days.
>
> Ahh..... Ranbaxy is who makes my cheap simvastatin!!
>
> For anyone who is in same boat.... unemployed and
> without health insurance to cover drug costs.... check
> into Costco as a source of simvastatin form Ranbuxy. I
> got 180 day supply simvastatin form Costco for abt $20
> total!!!!!

What about Wal-Mart? I believe they offer Simvastatin for four bucks.

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TOPIC: Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla or Mazda, which is best????
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3262f8c1d706d9af?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:16 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <3espo3t2b7s4l058ka7aomoil1paohbo19@4ax.com>, me@privacy.net
wrote:

> Shawn Hirn <srhi@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Maintenance software? Any calendar program can do that
>
> yes.... but some thing are better done on a mileage
> basis rather than a calendar basis.
>
> Would you rotate your tires every 6 months if that car
> had only been driven 2000 miles? See what I mean?

No, I would do it once a year at that rate. Still easy enough to put on
a calendar.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: supply bape shoes adidas shoes gucci shoes prada shoes
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c3887c6fe5815f49?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:19 pm
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TOPIC: Why we don't need Mexicans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a33d78e3d758123f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:20 pm
From: "Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS"

On Jan 16, 12:20 pm, Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> > Deportation would be cheaper than maintenance or amnesty for illegals.
>

Deportation needn't cost a penny. If each state would announce that
they will not prosecute crimes against illegals, then the illegals
would have no choice but to self-deport. Illegals have no rights.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Why I hate Geico ads
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c126ff8f6e76bda5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:46 pm
From: "Green Xenon [Radium]"

David Johnston wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:23:53 -0800 (PST), ultimauw@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>> There is also another geico ad that I hate with a passion which I wasn't
>>> able to find. It's a black and white ad depicting the old days when
>>> there was no internet. That ad talks about some
>> OK, so people are getting murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered, kicked
>> out of their homes, and all kinds of nasty shit that you cannot
>> possibly imagine happening to them,
>
> I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to see that too. Fortunately, I don't.

You be annoyed? I'd be so scared, I'd dissociate. I'd pass out and need
an ambulance.

Mental energy can hurt the physical body at times.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:08 pm
From: "Ut'n Ch'"

On Jan 17, 8:36 am, Boothbay <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 9:27 am, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jan 17, 6:23 am, ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 15, 10:26 am, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <gluceg...@excite.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Fuck geico's piece of shit ads.
>
> > > > Here are examples of geico ads which I fucking hate because they are so
> > > > fucking stupid:
>
> > > > 1.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSPXpc5N6Kg--thisaddepicts the 50s
> > > > or before when [obviously] there was no such thing as geico or their
> > > > stinkin car insurance
>
> > > > 2.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em-b0wQzQ-0--assholecelebrity
> > > > "mashed potatoes woohoo!" Howd ya like some mashed potatoes up your
> > > > stinky ass, you disheveled shithole?!
>
> > > > There is also another geico ad that I hate with a passion which I wasn't
> > > > able to find. It's a black and white ad depicting the old days when
> > > > there was no internet. That ad talks about some
>
> > > OK, so people are getting murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered, kicked
> > > out of their homes, and all kinds of nasty shit that you cannot
> > > possibly imagine happening to them, and all you can think about are
> > > the commercials. Me thinks you need to get your priorities straight.
>
> > > BTW: I thought the commercials were funny.
>
> > BTW: I am enjoying a big box of deserts loaded with DSNDSRBCNRBCs as
> > we speak.
>
> I never thought that I would be using my remote as often as I have. I
> thought the benefit would be more for changing channels...but mute
> seems to be taking over most of my movements on it. The old man's
> voice on Empire's flooring, the cockney of Geico and that so called
> fat idiot doing a 'gene kelly' dance movement in selling a car..anyone
> who can jump like that over a car without breaking one's neck is a
> miracle. It was so phoney.

"Gene Kelly"?????
He invented The Robot?

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:09 pm
From: "Ut'n Ch'"

On Jan 17, 8:46 pm, "Green Xenon [Radium]" <gluceg...@excite.com>
wrote:
> David Johnston wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:23:53 -0800 (PST), ultim...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >>> There is also another geico ad that I hate with a passion which I wasn't
> >>> able to find. It's a black and white ad depicting the old days when
> >>> there was no internet. That ad talks about some
> >> OK, so people are getting murdered, raped, pillaged, plundered, kicked
> >> out of their homes, and all kinds of nasty shit that you cannot
> >> possibly imagine happening to them,
>
> > I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to see that too. Fortunately, I don't.
>
> You be annoyed? I'd be so scared, I'd dissociate. I'd pass out and need
> an ambulance.
>
> Mental energy can hurt the physical body at times.

Body is the scar of the mind, Yoko.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is There A Phone Carrier That ONLY CHARGES for International Calls That
Actually Connect?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df47db4bbebcddae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 7:07 pm
From: Logan Shaw

Seni Seven wrote:
> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
> connects.
>
> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile service
> with a large coverage area geographically.

Where I live, the local cable company (Time Warner Austin, in Austin,
TX) has started offering an add-on for their phone service called
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So I guess that technically counts, because they aren't charging you
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option.

- Logan

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TOPIC: Boost Your Business with Quality Web & Design Services at Bargain
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== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: BEAUTY GUIDE
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 8:37 pm
From: esther.her5@gmail.com

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TOPIC: non-toxic glassware/ dinnerware?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/35038ef875d8eac3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 9:11 pm
From: mindfulnessnow@gmail.com

Here in California we have something called proposition 65 which
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Sounds good in theory. But in practice they don't know which plates,
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So then you are left to just guess whether or not it may have lead in
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So that's why I'm here.

Does anyone know how one can know which dinnerware set has safe
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Any info anyone can give me on this would be helpful.

We like to buy our stuff at Ross stores because they have great deals.
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wtih excessive lead? What is considered a good company that's not
expensive?

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TOPIC: Supply high Quality Watches Mail:china_86watches@yahoo.com.cn
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca83fb7e71cef009?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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