Frugal Living: 23 new messages in 11 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RodSpeed, Australia investing
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d8b4b3304e33f6a2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 1:10 pm
From: KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop

On Jan 17, 1:54 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > The exchange traded fund for Australia, EWA, is looking tempting for
> > a passive way to invest in Australia. I am liking the dividend yield on
> > it as a nice little cushion to investing in the continent. What you say?
>
> Dunno anything about it, I personally mostly invest directly, not via funds.
>
> The chart doesnt look that flash pre 2003, not clear what changed.

EWA finished today at about 25.60. It is about 15% above its 52 week
low. Do you see any signs of slow down in Australia?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:15 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop <kwokx2@hotmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> KarlMarx_MiddleClass_Ipod_HipHop <kwo...@hotmail.com> wrote

>>> The exchange traded fund for Australia, EWA, is looking tempting for
>>> a passive way to invest in Australia. I am liking the dividend
>>> yield on it as a nice little cushion to investing in the continent.
>>> What you say?

>> Dunno anything about it, I personally mostly invest directly, not via funds.

>> The chart doesnt look that flash pre 2003, not clear what changed.

> EWA finished today at about 25.60. It is about 15% above its
> 52 week low. Do you see any signs of slow down in Australia?

No, but the stockmarket is currently seeing a substantial correction.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Resurgence of telemarketers and telephishers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/132159bd102f1747?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 1:19 pm
From: sarge137

On Jan 17, 1:35 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Ever since getting the new phone number in Alabama, our lines have
> been plagued with telemarketers. Once we got on the DNC registry, the
> local businesses seem to have stopped, but the pre-recorded calls from
> "Heather, from account services" and "Your vehicle warantee is about
> to expire" are becoming as much of a pain as we had in the bad old
> days.

Absolutely correct. To say nothing of the charities and political
action groups which are exempt from the DNC registry. A deliberate,
but ridiculous exemption in my opinion. Some of those outfits are
bigger crooks than the telemarketers.

> I've filed a complaint with the FCC, since it appears that the FTC is
> doing squat to stop this type of problem. Realisticly, filing a
> complaint with the local cops, like the phone companies want people to
> do, is bullshit. A lot of the problem appears to be coming from 207
> area codes, VOIP gateways, and other essentially un-traceable (by the
> consumer) numbers.

Also absolutely correct. The FTC is the agency which is ostensibly in
charge of this problem, but they're simply ignoring it. They may have
assigned a few people to it because they have to, but clearly it's not
real high on their priority list. The phone companies referring
complaints to the local police is simply a mechanism to get you off
their lines without admitting they can't/won't do anything for you.
Unless the call is originating locally your local police have no
jurisdiction and can't do anything about it, even if they want to. At
best they forward your complaint "for action deemed appropriate" -
which is most likely shredding or circular filing.

> TIme for me to get a boat airhorn, dust off my info on incoming call
> filtering devices, and start bitchin to tv stations and the like.

Anonymous call rejection is part on the caller ID service provided by
my local phone company. People who block their calls don't even ring
my phone. They get a recording telling them how to unblock their line
and call me back. Activating that feature has reduced the kind of
calls you refer to substantially. Only a few of my friends actually
block their lines, and don't mind adding a few key strokes to the
number when they call me. No legitimate business would ever block
it's line. My caller ID is in my handset so if it's unknown, out of
area, or I don't recognize it, I just let the answering machine
answer. About 99% of the time when the recording comes up, they hang
up. Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
with them. It's amazing how long they'll stay on the phone if they
think you're going to buy or donate! And, I've performed a public
service - they've lost the opportunity to pester at least three or
four other people while I'm playing with them.

> Unless this is stopped soon, it'll get a lot worse.

I share your pain, but don't count on the government to stop it. We
have to protect ourselves. These calls are made because they work,
and will stop only when people stop answering, or unceremoniously hang
up.

Regards,
Sarge

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:22 pm
From: George Grapman

sarge137 wrote:
> On Jan 17, 1:35 pm, hchick...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Ever since getting the new phone number in Alabama, our lines have
>> been plagued with telemarketers. Once we got on the DNC registry, the
>> local businesses seem to have stopped, but the pre-recorded calls from
>> "Heather, from account services" and "Your vehicle warantee is about
>> to expire" are becoming as much of a pain as we had in the bad old
>> days.
>
> Absolutely correct. To say nothing of the charities and political
> action groups which are exempt from the DNC registry. A deliberate,
> but ridiculous exemption in my opinion. Some of those outfits are
> bigger crooks than the telemarketers.
>
>> I've filed a complaint with the FCC, since it appears that the FTC is
>> doing squat to stop this type of problem. Realisticly, filing a
>> complaint with the local cops, like the phone companies want people to
>> do, is bullshit. A lot of the problem appears to be coming from 207
>> area codes, VOIP gateways, and other essentially un-traceable (by the
>> consumer) numbers.
>
> Also absolutely correct. The FTC is the agency which is ostensibly in
> charge of this problem, but they're simply ignoring it. They may have
> assigned a few people to it because they have to, but clearly it's not
> real high on their priority list. The phone companies referring
> complaints to the local police is simply a mechanism to get you off
> their lines without admitting they can't/won't do anything for you.
> Unless the call is originating locally your local police have no
> jurisdiction and can't do anything about it, even if they want to. At
> best they forward your complaint "for action deemed appropriate" -
> which is most likely shredding or circular filing.
>
>> TIme for me to get a boat airhorn, dust off my info on incoming call
>> filtering devices, and start bitchin to tv stations and the like.
>
> Anonymous call rejection is part on the caller ID service provided by
> my local phone company. People who block their calls don't even ring
> my phone. They get a recording telling them how to unblock their line
> and call me back. Activating that feature has reduced the kind of
> calls you refer to substantially. Only a few of my friends actually
> block their lines, and don't mind adding a few key strokes to the
> number when they call me. No legitimate business would ever block
> it's line. My caller ID is in my handset so if it's unknown, out of
> area, or I don't recognize it, I just let the answering machine
> answer. About 99% of the time when the recording comes up, they hang
> up. Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
> with them. It's amazing how long they'll stay on the phone if they
> think you're going to buy or donate! And, I've performed a public
> service - they've lost the opportunity to pester at least three or
> four other people while I'm playing with them.

I have anonymous call rejection also. Every so often I still see
"Unknown number". I never answer and they never leave a message so I
know it is telemarketers.
At times, I do what you suggested even getting to the point of giving
them the start of a credit card number before telling them another call
came in. Five minutes later I return and ask if many people hang up the
phone on them. When they say,yes" I explain that those people did them a
favor and allowed them to find another victim whereas a person like me
with no intention of buying prevented them from calling potential
victims. I then hit the mute button and listen to them curse. Even
funnier when they think no one heard them. One call like that can ruin
their day.
Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
$250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
$100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
practices.

>> Unless this is stopped soon, it'll get a lot worse.
>
> I share your pain, but don't count on the government to stop it. We
> have to protect ourselves. These calls are made because they work,
> and will stop only when people stop answering, or unceremoniously hang
> up.
>
> Regards,
> Sarge

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:10 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:22:22 GMT, George Grapman
<sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:

> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
>threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
>days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
>$250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
>$100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>practices.

George, these aren't legit companies that are calling, that is part of
the point. These are criminals who are trying to get credit card
numbers so they can commit credit card fraud. I've tried getting
information, but as soon as they get a question that lets them know
they could get caught, they hang up. I've scoured the net and no-one
seems to have been able to have any success in finding an address or
even legit call-back number.

When it is a legit company, your tactic can work. When it isn't, and
the call is untraceable, and the phone company and government don't do
anything about it, it shows the absolute powerlessness of them to
thrwart penny-ante hackers and criminals, much less terrorists.

With the number of calls reported on the net, all with the same M.O.,
what is going on is an organized ring of crooks making a mockery of
the system. Unfortunately, it takes high-tech tools and access to the
system to find these assholes, so the consumer is S.O.o.L.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:58 pm
From: George Grapman

hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:22:22 GMT, George Grapman
> <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Another tactic is simply telling them you like to know who you are
>> doing business with and asking for the company name and address. They
>> often ask me to hold and I say, "sure, I know that is a tough question".
>> If you can determine they are in your state you can threaten them
>> with small claims court. I have done this 7 times. Each time I
>> threatened to sue for $500, offered to accept $100 if sent within three
>> days and told them that after suing I would not settle for less than
>> $250 plus costs to settle beforehand. 5 companies promptly coughed up
>> $100 and the other two the higher amount after I filed.
>> If a 5 percent of us did that it would put a real dent in their
>> practices.
>
> George, these aren't legit companies that are calling, that is part of
> the point. These are criminals who are trying to get credit card
> numbers so they can commit credit card fraud. I've tried getting
> information, but as soon as they get a question that lets them know
> they could get caught, they hang up. I've scoured the net and no-one
> seems to have been able to have any success in finding an address or
> even legit call-back number.

I understand. There is little you can do about the true scammers other
than ignore them or waste their time. I recent got a slew of recorded
messages telling me I had been approved for a loan. The "apply "option
only got me automated prompts asking for my checking account details.
Yesterday A caller wanted my credit card number. I asked if she would
give it to stranger and she tried to convince me that lacking a
signature no one could use the card. When mentioned internet and phone
purchases acted as if she had never heard of them.. They called back
today and I explained to the lady in great detail what her voice was
doing to me. She hung up.
>
> When it is a legit company, your tactic can work. When it isn't, and
> the call is untraceable, and the phone company and government don't do
> anything about it, it shows the absolute powerlessness of them to
> thrwart penny-ante hackers and criminals, much less terrorists.
>
> With the number of calls reported on the net, all with the same M.O.,
> what is going on is an organized ring of crooks making a mockery of
> the system. Unfortunately, it takes high-tech tools and access to the
> system to find these assholes, so the consumer is S.O.o.L.
>
>
>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:11 pm
From: Melinda Meahan - take out TRASH to reply

sarge137 wrote:
> Every once in a while I'll answer one those calls just to screw
> with them. It's amazing how long they'll stay on the phone if they
> think you're going to buy or donate! And, I've performed a public
> service - they've lost the opportunity to pester at least three or
> four other people while I'm playing with them.

Would you do the same thing with a cashier at a fast-food joint?

The people who work at those companies are not the problem -- they are
usually people who are unskilled and so desperate for work that they
have to take a job they hate in order to make ends meet. And many times
they are lured to the job by false pretenses and don't know the real
story.

--
Every job is a self-portrait of the person who does it. Autograph your
work with excellence.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Internet TV vs regular TV?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/f04f08d896e09fd2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:09 pm
From: George Grapman

Terry Terry wrote:
> On Jan 16, 7:44 pm, Dennis <dg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Another option that I have not seen mentioned: A $9/mo NetFlix
>> subscription gets you unlimited DVDs by mail, (one out at a time -- I
>> can usually turn around two per week), plus unlimited online viewing.
>> Currently their online catalog is somewhat limited (at least compared
>> to their DVD catalog), but it may improve. Both include TV series as
>> well as movies.
>>
>> The quality of the online viewing with my DSL connection is
>> acceptable, but not up to broadcast level.
>>
>
> The 9buck a month is DVDs you can watch in a player. Right? You
> don't have to have broadband for this? We have dialup

The DVDs are seen on your player. The movies are an added freebie but
you will need a high speed connection to view them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is There A Phone Carrier That ONLY CHARGES for International Calls That
Actually Connect?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df47db4bbebcddae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:12 pm
From: George Grapman

Seni Seven wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>
>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>> connects.
>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of any
>> type that are not completed.
>
> Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
> chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes, there is
> a charge even if you don't connect."

You should run from them as fast as you can.
>
>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>> that did that.
>
> It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to me:
> "You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five cents per
> minute plus tax and fees...."
>
> So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
> recording.
>
> I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
> target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>
> I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls don't
> make connections to Turkey.
>
>>> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile
>>> service with a large coverage area geographically.
>>>
>>>
>>> Note to self: It seems the model for phone service has changed, and
>>> that they will charge the consumer just for creating a dial tone.
>> I work in telecom. You pay for the dial tome whether you use it or
>> not.If you get charged for anything else aside from fees and taxes
>> when no calls are made you are being defrauded but my guess is you are
>> just confused.
>
> I am not talking about the subscriber monthly rate.
>
> I am talking about getting charged for making a call that never connects.
>
> I have METRO PCS $45 dollar plan, which lets me call anywhere anytime for
> as long as I want and I don't get charged per call.
>
> Not so with international connections. I even get charged just for
> dialing the number.
>
> If you know of a carrier that does NOT have the same policy and has
> reasonable per-minute rates to the target country, I am enthusiastically
> sitting here for your reply.

Have you considered using a phone card? You will pay air time after
dialing the 800 number but the entire call, from the view of your
carrier,will be domestic.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:51 pm
From: Seni Seven

George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:

> Seni Seven wrote:
>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>>
>>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>>> connects.
>>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of
>>> any
>>> type that are not completed.
>>
>> Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
>> chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes,
>> there is a charge even if you don't connect."
>
> You should run from them as fast as you can.
>>
>>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>>> that did that.
>>
>> It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to
>> me: "You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five
>> cents per minute plus tax and fees...."
>>
>> So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
>> recording.
>>
>> I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
>> target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>>
>> I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls
>> don't make connections to Turkey.
>>
>>>> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile
>>>> service with a large coverage area geographically.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Note to self: It seems the model for phone service has changed,
>>>> and that they will charge the consumer just for creating a dial
>>>> tone.
>>> I work in telecom. You pay for the dial tome whether you use it or
>>> not.If you get charged for anything else aside from fees and taxes
>>> when no calls are made you are being defrauded but my guess is you
>>> are just confused.
>>
>> I am not talking about the subscriber monthly rate.
>>
>> I am talking about getting charged for making a call that never
>> connects.
>>
>> I have METRO PCS $45 dollar plan, which lets me call anywhere anytime
>> for as long as I want and I don't get charged per call.
>>
>> Not so with international connections. I even get charged just for
>> dialing the number.
>>
>> If you know of a carrier that does NOT have the same policy and has
>> reasonable per-minute rates to the target country, I am
>> enthusiastically sitting here for your reply.
>
> Have you considered using a phone card? You will pay air time after
> dialing the 800 number but the entire call, from the view of your
> carrier,will be domestic.

I'll look into it. If the charge on this "domestic" call on a phone card
ends up still being greater than my estimation of the times I call on the
other service with no connect, then I'll probably stick with the service I
now have. What my current wireless service is charging me on these
international calls is in effect air time, which they don't charge at all
on the domestic side of my plan (of course, their coverage area sucks,
even within their designated coverage area).

I am skeptical that an 800 phone card would not kick in a special rate for
an international call, unless the call itself is basically being charged
at a per-minute rate so high that it would cover the most expensive
international call possible anyway.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:53 pm
From: George Grapman

Seni Seven wrote:
> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>
>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>> George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>>>
>>>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>>>> connects.
>>>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of
>>>> any
>>>> type that are not completed.
>>> Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
>>> chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes,
>>> there is a charge even if you don't connect."
>> You should run from them as fast as you can.
>>>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>>>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>>>> that did that.
>>> It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to
>>> me: "You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five
>>> cents per minute plus tax and fees...."
>>>
>>> So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
>>> recording.
>>>
>>> I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
>>> target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>>>
>>> I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls
>>> don't make connections to Turkey.
>>>
>>>>> Which phone services are those? It helps if they provide mobile
>>>>> service with a large coverage area geographically.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Note to self: It seems the model for phone service has changed,
>>>>> and that they will charge the consumer just for creating a dial
>>>>> tone.
>>>> I work in telecom. You pay for the dial tome whether you use it or
>>>> not.If you get charged for anything else aside from fees and taxes
>>>> when no calls are made you are being defrauded but my guess is you
>>>> are just confused.
>>> I am not talking about the subscriber monthly rate.
>>>
>>> I am talking about getting charged for making a call that never
>>> connects.
>>>
>>> I have METRO PCS $45 dollar plan, which lets me call anywhere anytime
>>> for as long as I want and I don't get charged per call.
>>>
>>> Not so with international connections. I even get charged just for
>>> dialing the number.
>>>
>>> If you know of a carrier that does NOT have the same policy and has
>>> reasonable per-minute rates to the target country, I am
>>> enthusiastically sitting here for your reply.
>> Have you considered using a phone card? You will pay air time after
>> dialing the 800 number but the entire call, from the view of your
>> carrier,will be domestic.
>
> I'll look into it. If the charge on this "domestic" call on a phone card
> ends up still being greater than my estimation of the times I call on the
> other service with no connect, then I'll probably stick with the service I
> now have. What my current wireless service is charging me on these
> international calls is in effect air time, which they don't charge at all
> on the domestic side of my plan (of course, their coverage area sucks,
> even within their designated coverage area).
>
> I am skeptical that an 800 phone card would not kick in a special rate for
> an international call, unless the call itself is basically being charged
> at a per-minute rate so high that it would cover the most expensive
> international call possible anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
Calling the 800 number for the phone card will incur the same per
minute rate you pay for domestic calls. If you are talking about the
rate on the card then,yes, some countries cost more than others. Find
someone who calls Turkey (look for maybe a Turkish restaurant or even a
consulate) and ask which cards they use.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 5:51 pm
From: LDC

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:58:13 GMT, Seni Seven
<OneWhoLovesYou@humanitarian.ca> wrote:

>George Grapman <sfgeorge@paccbell.net> wrote in misc.consumers:
>
>> Seni Seven wrote:
>>> I am looking for a phone service that will attempt to connect my
>>> international calls and ONLY CHARGES me for the call if it actually
>>> connects.
>>
>> I have never heard of a phone company that charges for calls of any
>> type that are not completed.
>
>Now you have. They are called "MetroPCS" and I nearly fell out of my
>chair when I realized what the CSR at MetroPCS said to me: "Yes, there is
>a charge even if you don't connect."
>
>> Some cell providers might charge if you
>> let the phone ring more than 30 seconds but I would flee from a form
>> that did that.
>
>It takes more than 30 seconds for the MetroPCS recording to say to me:
>"You are making a call at the rate of zero dollars and five cents per
>minute plus tax and fees...."
>
>So a FEE will ALWAYS be charged because the connect time includes the
>recording.
>
>I got them primarily because they were cheap on connected calls to my
>target country, Turkey...cheaper than anyone else.
>
>I now have to amend that since it is FREQUENTLY the case that calls don't
>make connections to Turkey.

On OneSuite.com the rate to Turkey from the US is 15.5 cents per
minute. (Istanbul is a little less.) There is a call setup fee of
around 3 cents. There are no other fees or charges.

Is MetroPCS cheaper than that?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cellphone battery life
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca4d0c8b9093ec56?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:13 pm
From: Jeff

Terry Terry wrote:
> On Jan 17, 1:02 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
>> Terry Terry wrote:
>>> On Jan 16, 5:28 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Terry Terry wrote:
>>>>> I have a Tracfone. I bought it for emergencies a month ago. The
>>>>> instructions say that the phone will withstand temperatures to -10C
>>>>> and will hold a charge for 10 days.
>>>>> They lie.
>>>>> Because I only use my phone for emergencies, I left my phone in my car
>>>>> for two nights. The temperature came near freezing, but did not drop
>>>>> to freezing.
>>>>> The phone battery died.
>>>>> I took it back. The girl at the counter said that all phones are like
>>>>> that. Don't leave the phone in the car. Is she telling the truth or
>>>>> should I insist on another phone?
>>>> Maybe the battery was bad or not fully charged. Since you only use it
>>>> for emergencies, presumably outgoing calls, why not remove or
>>>> disconnect the battery when not in use. It should keep it's charge for
>>>> weeks or months. I have a couple in a drawer here and I charge them
>>>> every 2-3 months, but they are still plenty live enough to make a call
>>>> even then. I am speaking about lithium-ion batteries. NI-CAD or NMH
>>>> won't hold a charge as long as they have a shorter shelf life.
>>> How would taking out the battery extend its life?
>> At least turn the phone off. But even with the phone off it is still
>> drawing some power, that switch is a software switch not a hardware
>> switch like your home light switches.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am thinking that the battery is bad and I should be able to exchange
>>> it for another phone. I had that in mind when I returned it to the
>>> store, but the girl at the counter said that was typical operation.
>> I'm thinking you did this awkwardly by starting a complaint about the
>> phone, hence putting the counter girl in confrontation mode.
>>
>> It's always easier if you ask people to help you. Just tell her the
>> phone died and you don't know why, what can we do about it. Don't go
>> into why can't it stand the cold, don't even mention that.
>>
>> I have similar problems when my girlfriend tries to take something
>> back, she complains and they refuse. Now she gets me to do it and there
>> are no problems. People will go out of their way to help if they want
>> to, otherwise you are by the book.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> I don't think that is what happened. I have started shopping at Radio
> Shack again. I quit for shopping there for a very long time because I
> bought my first IBM compatible machine there. Anyway.....I know the
> salesperson.
>
> I could have insisted for an exchange and got one. I wasn't
> complaining. I just told her what happened. I also think she told
> the truth to me when she said that if I got another one it would do
> the same thing.
>

I'm confused. It sounded to me that the battery died and that was it.
Has the battery recharged?

All batteries have much less capacity at lower temperatures. It's a
chemical reaction and it's temperature dependant. That's why they rate
car batteries in cold cranking amps.

If the battery is dead, dead, dead, get a new one. If it just needed
to be recharged or warmed up, then that's normal.

Jeff

> I just wanted to hear from other cell phone users that may treat their
> phones the same way. I want to leave my phone in my car when I am
> away from home and not have it in my pocket. I know most people keep
> their phone handy even if they don't plan to get any calls. I know I
> will not be getting any calls, because I haven't given out my phone
> number. I don't consider being out of bread an emergency.
>
> The only thing I care to spend a dollar a min to call would be 911 or
> a tow truck.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:23 pm
From: Terry Terry

On Jan 17, 5:13 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> Terry Terry wrote:
> > On Jan 17, 1:02 pm, Jeff <jeff@spam_me_not.com> wrote:
> >> Terry Terry wrote:
> >>> On Jan 16, 5:28 pm, Al Bundy <MSfort...@mcpmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Terry Terry wrote:
> >>>>> I have a Tracfone. I bought it for emergencies a month ago. The
> >>>>> instructions say that the phone will withstand temperatures to -10C
> >>>>> and will hold a charge for 10 days.
> >>>>> They lie.
> >>>>> Because I only use my phone for emergencies, I left my phone in my car
> >>>>> for two nights. The temperature came near freezing, but did not drop
> >>>>> to freezing.
> >>>>> The phone battery died.
> >>>>> I took it back. The girl at the counter said that all phones are like
> >>>>> that. Don't leave the phone in the car. Is she telling the truth or
> >>>>> should I insist on another phone?
> >>>> Maybe the battery was bad or not fully charged. Since you only use it
> >>>> for emergencies, presumably outgoing calls, why not remove or
> >>>> disconnect the battery when not in use. It should keep it's charge for
> >>>> weeks or months. I have a couple in a drawer here and I charge them
> >>>> every 2-3 months, but they are still plenty live enough to make a call
> >>>> even then. I am speaking about lithium-ion batteries. NI-CAD or NMH
> >>>> won't hold a charge as long as they have a shorter shelf life.
> >>> How would taking out the battery extend its life?
> >> At least turn the phone off. But even with the phone off it is still
> >> drawing some power, that switch is a software switch not a hardware
> >> switch like your home light switches.
>
> >>> I am thinking that the battery is bad and I should be able to exchange
> >>> it for another phone. I had that in mind when I returned it to the
> >>> store, but the girl at the counter said that was typical operation.
> >> I'm thinking you did this awkwardly by starting a complaint about the
> >> phone, hence putting the counter girl in confrontation mode.
>
> >> It's always easier if you ask people to help you. Just tell her the
> >> phone died and you don't know why, what can we do about it. Don't go
> >> into why can't it stand the cold, don't even mention that.
>
> >> I have similar problems when my girlfriend tries to take something
> >> back, she complains and they refuse. Now she gets me to do it and there
> >> are no problems. People will go out of their way to help if they want
> >> to, otherwise you are by the book.
>
> >> Jeff
>
> > I don't think that is what happened. I have started shopping at Radio
> > Shack again. I quit for shopping there for a very long time because I
> > bought my first IBM compatible machine there. Anyway.....I know the
> > salesperson.
>
> > I could have insisted for an exchange and got one. I wasn't
> > complaining. I just told her what happened. I also think she told
> > the truth to me when she said that if I got another one it would do
> > the same thing.
>
> I'm confused. It sounded to me that the battery died and that was it.
> Has the battery recharged?
>
> All batteries have much less capacity at lower temperatures. It's a
> chemical reaction and it's temperature dependant. That's why they rate
> car batteries in cold cranking amps.
>
> If the battery is dead, dead, dead, get a new one. If it just needed
> to be recharged or warmed up, then that's normal.
>
> Jeff
>
> > I just wanted to hear from other cell phone users that may treat their
> > phones the same way. I want to leave my phone in my car when I am
> > away from home and not have it in my pocket. I know most people keep
> > their phone handy even if they don't plan to get any calls. I know I
> > will not be getting any calls, because I haven't given out my phone
> > number. I don't consider being out of bread an emergency.
>
> > The only thing I care to spend a dollar a min to call would be 911 or
> > a tow truck.

No it is not dead. It charged backup fine.

The instructions lead me to believe I could leave the phone in the car
for 10 days at 10C.

I take if from other replies that this is not the intended use for the
phone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why we don't need Mexicans
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a33d78e3d758123f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:26 pm
From: Shawn Wilson

On Jan 16, 12:20 pm, Ted <tedor...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Here are 14 reasons why the US has to cut benefits to senior citizens.
> > "Snopes" is provided for any doubters. I hope the following reasons are
> > forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the
> > reader gets sick of reading them.

Sigh...

How to lie with statistics 101- make sure to include all negatives (/
positives) of the policy you don't (/do) like and lowball or ignore
any positives (/negatives).

Here we have a great many negatives of illegals, no corresponding data
on legal immigrants for comparison (on a per capita basis it's pretty
obvious that illegals will cost less than legals as they will be
afraid to seek some services for fear of deportation), and an utter
lack or any mention of positives the illegals provide the country,
like cheap labor and lower prices.

Please, if you want to discuss government policy do it honestly.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 3:58 pm
From: nospam@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek)

In article <yJCdnYbRH7K0GhLanZ2dnUVZ_vKunZ2d@giganews.com>,
Topp@Work <topprolmc@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Matter of fact, the ACLU is representing larry in his case against the State
>of MN for
>violating his right to privacy, cause in MN there is a law regarding asking
>for sex is a
>private act when in a bathroom....

Of course. Us evul liberals support your right to have gay sex in
the men's room, it's just that doing so makes you unelectable as a
Republican. Hey, I don't make the Republican's silly rules...

--
Please reply to: | "One of the hardest parts of my job is to
pciszek at panix dot com | connect Iraq to the War on Terror."
Autoreply is disabled | -- G. W. Bush, 9/7/2006

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 4:47 pm
From: -

Ted wrote:
> On Jan 16, 9:52 am, Righteous Dude <n...@hotmail.uk> wrote:
>> Here are 14 reasons why the US has to cut benefits to senior citizens.
>> "Snopes" is provided for any doubters. I hope the following reasons are
>> forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the
>> reader gets sick of reading them.
>> I have included the URL's for verification of the following facts.
>>
>> http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/bankofamerica.asp
>>
>> 1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens
>> each year.http://tinyurl.com/zob77
>>
>> 2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs
>> such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
>>
>> 3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal
>> aliens.http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html
>>
>> 4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
>> education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of
>> English!http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.0.html
>>
>> 5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
>> American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
>> social services by the American taxpayers.http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
>> by the illegal aliens.http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's
>> two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular,
>> their
>> children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the UShttp://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html
>>
>> 11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens
>> that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal
>> aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine,
>> meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern
>> border. Homeland Security Report:http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
>>
>> 12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of
>> mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
>> cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf
>>
>> 13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back
>> to their countries of origin.http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
>>
>> 14. Nearly One Million Sex Crimes were Committed by Illegal Immigrants
>> In The United States.http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
>>
>> The total cost is $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS per YEAR
>>
>> Deportation would be cheaper than maintenance or amnesty for illegals.
>
> Does anyone still support the government in Washington, DC?
>
> ted
The government isn't in Washington D C. The Government is on Wall
Street. Their flunkies are in D C.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 6:13 pm
From: Paul Knudsen

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 19:41:26 -0800, "Billzz"
<billzzstring@starband.net> wrote:

>Probably not what anyone wanted to hear.

It doesn't really matter. Big Business and But Agriculture want
illegals who'll work cheap, and they pay their congresscritters (of
both parties) to make sure they get them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Plastic grocery bag debate question
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/76c040c2f7b9f6a6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 2:54 pm
From: pc

Shawn Hirn wrote:
> In article
> <e399c3ec-75fe-480a-8192-f1d79d31e7b0@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> sarge137 <rbooth9858@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 14, 3:00 pm, pc <p...@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>> Greetings group..
>>>
>>> I've seen news reports about a variety of cities in the US and China
>>> banning, or planning to ban, plastic grocery bags [AKA teeshirt bags].
>>>
>>> While I agree that these are overused by the general population, I do
>>> use them for my garbage cans. And when I don't need them to carry home
>>> a purchase..then I don't ask for one.
>>>
>>> So..my question..do people who want these bags banned go out and buy
>>> plastic garbage bags all the time anyways [which brings up a lot of
>>> other issues]? Or do they throw their garbage into a pail sans liner
>>> [which brings up a host of other issues..sanitizing, water usage, etc.]
>>>
>>> I certainly agree that a lot of people overuse the bags. But, I feel I
>>> use them responsibly. Too bad we can't come up with an inexpensive,
>>> biodegradable bag!
>> Banning these bags is a classic example of useless "feel good"
>> legislation, that just creates inconvenience and bigger problems down
>> the line.
>>
>> The city council where I live had a public hearing last year on this
>> very subject. As one of the speakers pointed out, banning the bags
>> won't result in less plastic in the land fills, it will only cause
>> people to buy plastic bags for the same purposes they presently reuse
>> these bags for. Fortunately the measure failed unanimously.
>
> The speaker who said that is missing the point. The point behind banning
> plastic grocery bags isn't to reduce their presence in landfills, its to
> reduce their presence on city streets.

Interesting observation. And it has a ring of truth in it, AFAIAC.

..PC

==============================================================================
TOPIC: There are different styles for jeans t-shirts hoody handbag purses
shoes from (www.globwholesale.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/47a3463d603663fc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: (www.globwholesale.com) Brand Electronics at discount price (IPOD NANO,
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==============================================================================

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: temporary health insurance for a recent graduate
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ca3c7cbfde6133a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 17 2008 4:21 pm
From: "Sally Robertson"

<tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:0f83a337-af73-42e8-ba19-48c9f57d0772@e10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> Whatever. Breeding does horrendous things to your body, even if you
> only have one. My great-grandmother was a midwife, so the women in my
> family definitely saw all the horrors of spawning and most didn't do
> it if they could avoid it. My mother's was the first generation in my
> family to have access to birth control, and she only had one.

Why did she even have that many if she thought it was so horrible and, as
you've implied, she was able to exercise control over having children?

> My aunts had none. Most of my grandmother's generation would have been
> childfree as well, if they could have been. My great aunt always said,
> "I love my kids, but if I could choose again, I'd have stayed single!"
> Back in those days, that meant no kids

In other words, "I love my kids but I wish I'd never married their father or
given birth to them." That sounds like a lovely family. Thankfully they've
apparently been pretty successful at proving Darwin right and eliminating
themselves from the gene pool and I applaud your own contribution in that
respect.

> Oh, and by the way, PLONK.

LOL! If you know how to killfile someone, you should know how easy it was
for me to defeat it. After all, you surely aren't dumb enough to post using
your real e-mail address . . or are you?

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== 1 of 1 ==
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