http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en
misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com
Today's topics:
* Check out Stockhunt.com, turn $150 into $1,000,000. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e320f0a8336e7a8c?hl=en
* To juice or not. - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb065ec0061ab7cd?hl=en
* Mayonnaise as frugal head lice remedy! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c52f0a108edfde98?hl=en
* Why not refrigerate everything? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6e88cae50da47d8?hl=en
* Update: Re: Mattresses: Latex, wool, experiences? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0be6030aeef22412?hl=en
* Fowl Math - 12 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3f704369916fd0d6?hl=en
* Debbie Meyers GreenBags Review & Banana Freshness Experiment - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/369461a02bf45ba2?hl=en
* What are you experiences with Liberty Mutual car/home insurance? - 2
messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c30aea067c4c768?hl=en
* 357 button batteries.....where frugal? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b734feb2b19c623?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Check out Stockhunt.com, turn $150 into $1,000,000.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e320f0a8336e7a8c?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 30 2008 11:17 pm
From: stockhunt9
It works for Jim Cramer why wont it work for you.
Sign up now!
http://www.stockhunt.com/news-letter.aspx
==============================================================================
TOPIC: To juice or not.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb065ec0061ab7cd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 2:16 am
From: Abe
>On Jul 30, 4:13 pm, Abe <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> >On Jul 30, 6:12 am, James <j0069b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Every now and then I make a nice vege-fruit drink by juicing. After
>> >> looking at all the resulting pulp I'm wondering if it's better for my
>> >> guts to eat all that fruit & veges than to drink the juice. Perhaps
>> >> juice is more about a nice drink than good health.
>>
>> >James, I have both a standard juicer and also a Vitamix. The standard
>> >juicer takes out all the pulp, and it is great for some juices like
>> >carrots. But, I love making juice drinks and smoothies in the Vitamix
>> >because it just basically liquifies the whole darn kit and kaboodle,
>> >and you get all the fibre and all in a delicious tasting, but thicker,
>> >"juice."
>>
>> >Dave
>>
>> Really? The vitamix doesn't expel the pulp?
>
>Hi Abe,
>
>Just like someone else said below my post, the Vitamix is sort of the
>"King of Blenders," as it uses a chain saw motor and you can take
>literally anything and liquefy it. I'm not kidding -- the wood paddle
>that the thing came with got dropped inside when it was making a
>smoothie and you couldn't tell the wood from the strawberry juice.
>
>Dave
I'd love to play with one to see how it does with my ginger apple and
whole spinach leaf concoction, leaving the apple core and spinach leaf
stems in. The ginger is pretty fibrous also.
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 9:43 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
> James wrote:
>> Every now and then I make a nice vege-fruit drink by juicing. After
>> looking at all the resulting pulp I'm wondering if it's better for my
>> guts to eat all that fruit & veges than to drink the juice. Perhaps
>> juice is more about a nice drink than good health.
i'd eat the whole piece of produce unless you're trying to treat some
sort of illness. ex: juice cabbage to treat stomach ulcers. you'll get
a lot more of the active ingredient you want that way.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 11:33 am
From: Brute
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 16:43:33 GMT, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
<derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>i'd eat the whole piece of produce unless you're trying to treat some
>sort of illness. ex: juice cabbage to treat stomach ulcers. you'll get
>a lot more of the active ingredient you want that way.
Yikes. Have you actually tasted fresh cabbage juice? That is some
rough stuff. I had a raspy voice for an hour.
It has to be diluted with some other juice or water or something.
Brute
"Vote McBama"
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mayonnaise as frugal head lice remedy!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c52f0a108edfde98?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 3:22 am
From: "h"
<lenona321@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b4ec5e7-1357-42d1-867c-dfd9496fdb0a@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 31, 1:02 am, Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply
> <samh...@TRASHsonic.net> wrote:
>> I heard that Vaseline also works well. The point is, it smothers the
>> lice, sort of like drowning a tick in oil so it will pull out and can
>> then easily be removed.
>
>
> How in the world do you get Vaseline OUT of hair - especially long
> hair - without a quart of shampoo?
>
> Lenona.
It just takes about 10 shampoos. I put Vaseline in my hair (to soften it!)
when I was 10. Not my most shining moment, but my long hair was incredibly
soft for about 6 months!
TMcLone
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why not refrigerate everything?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e6e88cae50da47d8?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 6:11 am
From: terry
On Jul 28, 2:54 pm, "AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <der...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> "Sue Bilkens" <s...@incus.com> wrote in message
>
> >>I could buy another fridge with built in freezer and
> >>get additional freezer space..... but also get
> >>additional fridge space where I could store boxes of
> >>cereal, oatmeal, and other things you normally don't
> >>think act storing in a fridge.
>
>
> well, it'll run up your electric bill. fridge is supposed to
> be the main user.- Hide quoted text -
.
Yes but if you live where you need to heat during the winter, the
'wasted' heat fromt he extra fridge or freezer will help heat your
living space. If you are in area where you have to run AC in the
summer the wasted heat is not an advantage..
We seem to forget that all the energy that comes into our living
space, whether it for lighting (which also gives off some heat),
fridges, cooking, TVs or computers, hot water from showers or
dishwashers etc. can be a benefit by providing additional warmth
(winter).
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 7:21 am
From: me@privacy.net
terry <tsanford@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Yes but if you live where you need to heat during the winter, the
>'wasted' heat fromt he extra fridge or freezer will help heat your
>living space. If you are in area where you have to run AC in the
>summer the wasted heat is not an advantage..
>
>We seem to forget that all the energy that comes into our living
>space, whether it for lighting (which also gives off some heat),
>fridges, cooking, TVs or computers, hot water from showers or
>dishwashers etc. can be a benefit by providing additional warmth
>(winter).
Agree on the heat!
And that would be my strategy. To move the small
freezer INSIDE during winter so as to help heat the
house.... and outside in the garage during summer to
keep heat OUT of house.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Update: Re: Mattresses: Latex, wool, experiences?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0be6030aeef22412?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 7:20 am
From: jasper77
On Jul 11, 9:49 am, jasper77 <jeanne.petrang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 10, 6:50 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
>
> > jasper77 <jeanne.petrang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >I've always had innerspring mattresses and it's time for a new one.
> > >I'm considering a latex mattressfor the following reasons:
Update:
I'd been to a local really big furniture store where my husband and I
selected a
latex mattress and saw what was inside it. I felt confident I could
duplicate the
exact mattress for much less $$.
I ordered separate latex mattress toppers from sleeplikeabear.com, a
SnugFleece wool topper through a good summer sale at
TheCompanyStore.com,
and a cover from silkroad.com (plain unbleached cotton). I like that I
can get
the same 20 year non-prorated warranty on the latex layers as the
mattress
at the store. The latex layers did have an odor when I opened them,
and
I'm glad it's summer because with the windows open and fans blowing
across
while we ate dinner and played with the kids, the odor was diminished
enough that once the sheets were on we didn't notice it. My husband
has
a sensitive nose too. I've read synthetic latex has less of an odor
than
natural, and I believe this (made by Latex International) is a mix if
not all
synthetic. The layers came vacuum packed for shipping and sprang to
full size immediately.
Lesson #1: The core of the store mattress was 6" of Dunlop latex (32
ILD)
and what I bought is Talalay latex. It seems 32 ILD of Talalay
actually feels
softer than 32 ILD of Dunlop, so the mattress came out more plush. Our
first night of sleep on this new mattress was miserable. If we were
more
cautious, we would have taken the time to assemble the mattress
earlier
in the day when we'd have time to try it out and make changes before
going to sleep. Fortunately all the layers are separate, so for the
next night
we removed the softest (top) layers and have a firmer, albeit thinner,
mattress, that we've been able to sleep well on. It is not a final
solution
yet because, at 7" of latex foam, when my husband sits on it he feels
like
he's "bottoming out" (feeling the boxspring underneath) and he
doesn't
like that. He's about 195 lbs. I plan to order some layers of firmer
latex
within the 30 return period so we can piece together what works for
us;
even after paying shipping on returns we should come out well ahead of
the store price.
Lesson #2: The cover I bought only has a zipper on one side; the
smallest.
It's tricky-to-impossible to slide all the separate layers of foam
into this
cover and preserve how nicely they lay flat and how well they are
lined up
relative to each other. I would dread having to remove this cover for
cleaning and replace it. It also provides no protection against
spills, as it's
just plain cotton cloth. Now I intend to buy a futon cover, which zips
open
on three sides so it will open like a book. I found what looks like a
good
one at futonscovers.com for less than the cost of just buying the
fabric.
Lesson #3: Definitely do get separate layers so you can re-arrange
them
to your comfort.
Lesson #4: The wool topper is great in summer! I haven't had a single
sweaty night on it in the week we've had it, although there has been
some humid weather. I intend to keep this topper outside the case,
so we can easily remove it for cleaning, as it's washable wool and
provides protection the case does not. A more frugal alternative may
be to buy a layer or two of wool batting and layer it inside the
cover, if you can find batting wide enough or deal with seams
appropriately.
Lesson #5: Encasing all the layers in a cover adds to the firmness.
I think 6" of latex foam would make a comfortable sleeping surface for
those of light to average weight, and 8-9" should probably do for
most
everyone. Getting separate layers of different firmnesses is a good
idea so you can re-arrange them to your comfort.
Lesson #6: Sleeping on a foam mattress feels different from an
innerspring mattress. If you don't like change, you may not want
to try this. For one thing, we're used to the edge of the be holding
up when we sit on it (our innerspring had stiff foam along the edges).
Sleeping on the foam feels different, although adding the wool
topper helps, and adding the case helped again. I think this is why
many mattress stores insist you wait 30 days before you can make
any exchanges; you probably have to adjust to any new mattress.
It's nice to not have to wait the full 30 days. For the record, the
latex mattress in the store felt and looked a lot more like an
innerspring mattress than what we've assembled at home. It
was 13" thick, including almost an inch of high density foam at
the bottom (because it's intended to be on slats?) and wool
in the top.
-J
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 8:28 am
From: Ron Peterson
On Jul 10, 1:21 pm, jasper77 <jeanne.petrang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've always had innerspring mattresses and it's time for a new one.
> I'm considering a latex mattress for the following reasons:
> 1) Longevity
> 2) Relatively affordable, if bought from online dealers
> 3) Configurable firmness levels (can layer medium over firm or switch
> layers, for example)
> 4) Could have different firmness levels for hubby and me
> 5) Separation of movement between hubby and me
> I'm looking for first hand experience with latex mattresses,
> especially over a good number of years.
> If you've tried a latex mattress before, can you tell me:
> - How has it held up over the years? I can't find much (even in this
> group) about 5+ years experience. If it's formed body impressions, and
> you don't mind answering, do you consider yourself a heavy person? My
> husband and I are each about average.
My spouse and I have been using a polyurethane mattress for several
years. It has held up well.
We are of average height and weight but got a firm mattress to make it
easier to shift sleeping positions. In a way, I think a medium
firmness mattress might be better.
We use a wool pad under the bottom sheet to wick away moisture.
Latex may cause allergy problems and is expensive.
I don't like the extra thick mattresses because I think they are a
safety hazard.
We liked our air mattress until a leak developed we couldn't find.
--
Ron
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fowl Math
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/3f704369916fd0d6?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 8:04 am
From: Terri
nicksanspam@ece.villanova.edu wrote in
news:g6ro4u$ohi@acadia.ece.villanova.edu:
> Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>
>>Can anyone help me figure this out, please?
>
> Maybe.
>
>>I paid .99/lb for a chicken and made some broth to freeze
>>for future use.
>
> A P pound chicken?
You lost me here.
The bird was an organic whole bird at Costco, initial price of .99 per
pound.
> So the cost of the pure chicken was about $0.99P/1.6lb.
> The seeds and plants woulda been bought, no?
Correct.
>
>>Water was done by irrigation water shares and by flood so
>>no pump electricity was used for watering.
>
> How do you start a flood?
We turn the head gate valve on and open the sliders on the
irrigation pipe.
>
>>The time on my electric range to cook the chicken down was
>>a total of 5 hours over the course of two days.
>
> Maybe 5 hours x 200 watts = 1 kWh worth about 10 cents.
>
>>What would the price per pound of the chicken really be
>>when all is said and done?
>
> About $(0.10+0.99P)/1.6lb.
>
>
> The calculations seem easy enough, but what's the goal?
It's for science! Heh.
I do plan on raising chickens next year so by knowing
what the price is this way I can compare it later on when
I'm growing my own.
Thank you for helping, Nick. I appreciate your time.
== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 11:35 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On 31 Jul 2008 15:04:16 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
<snipped>
>I do plan on raising chickens next year so by knowing
>what the price is this way I can compare it later on when
>I'm growing my own.
Terri,
While I am a fan of self-sufficiency and home-grown food, I can tell
you from recent experience that there is no way that you can home
raise and butcher chickens at a cost anywhere near $1.00/lb.
Right off the top, you have the expense of the housing. If you have
predators in the area, then you can forget using chicken wire as
sufficient caging - unless - you are willing to take a chance on
losing your entire investment in one night. Figure a minimum coop or
tractor cost of $50 if you construct it yourself. A much more
comfortable figure would be $250 for something with more space.
Next, the price of my last 50 lb bag of grower/finisher feed at
Tractor Supply was $15. It took a little over a week for 17 of my 14
week old culls to go through that, plus table scraps, plus the wormy
corn from the garden. The culls are Cobbs, which have been ruthlessly
bred for feed to meat efficiency, so expect even higher feed costs
from other breeds.
Don't forget the expense of butchering. If you value your time at
even minimum wage, you lose money. I figure about 20 minutes per
bird. The job is messy and the chickens don't appreciate it.
Then there are the intangibles. I'm now recovering from a nice (not!)
bout of salmonella. The prime suspects are eggs from a neighbor's
home operation (maybe), some cheap hot dogs from save-a-lot
(unlikely), and my caring for and butchering of the chickens(most
likely). Chickens poop... a lot. Broiler breeds don't roost like
others, but just plop down when they get bored with standing. Unless
they have a huge area, they inevitably lie on their poop (as well as
eat it while scratching for other food). Moving a tractor twice a day
or keeping a minimal number of birds might minimize the problem, but
in summer you have to look for shady spots, and in winter...
The point is that with broilers, unless you want to run the birds
through a car wash or the dishwasher before butchering, there is going
to be some poop on them, something that a lot of literature
conveniently forgets to mention. Processing plants have methods of
safely dealing with this, home growers have to figure things out as
best they can.
Even though I got my birds for free, and they were nearly market
weight, I have to estimate my costs at a minimum of $10/bird. The
process has been educational and fun at times, but unless the cost of
whole chickens reaches $4 or more per pound, I won't be raising any
more birds for meat. The economic incentive just isn't there.
The more I grasp the way that chickens are raised and processed
commercially, the more in awe I am of the systems.
== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 11:35 am
From: Steve IA
hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote in news:i6u394thmpk3t9knst9orafi1nmkaf2lhh@
4ax.com:
> On 31 Jul 2008 15:04:16 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>>I do plan on raising chickens next year so by knowing
>>what the price is this way I can compare it later on when
>>I'm growing my own.
>
> Terri,
>
> While I am a fan of self-sufficiency and home-grown food, I can tell
> you from recent experience that there is no way that you can home
> raise and butcher chickens at a cost anywhere near $1.00/lb.
But the difference in quality makes up for the added expenses.
>
> Right off the top, you have the expense of the housing. If you have
> predators in the area, then you can forget using chicken wire as
> sufficient caging - unless - you are willing to take a chance on
> losing your entire investment in one night. Figure a minimum coop or
> tractor cost of $50 if you construct it yourself. A much more
> comfortable figure would be $250 for something with more space.
This can be amortized ove ther next X years. Chickens give little wear/tear
to fence and coop.
>
> Next, the price of my last 50 lb bag of grower/finisher feed at
> Tractor Supply was $15. It took a little over a week for 17 of my 14
> week old culls to go through that, plus table scraps, plus the wormy
> corn from the garden. The culls are Cobbs, which have been ruthlessly
> bred for feed to meat efficiency, so expect even higher feed costs
> from other breeds.
>
Feed has increased (doubled?) in the last few years what with the demand
for corn.
> Don't forget the expense of butchering. If you value your time at
> even minimum wage, you lose money. I figure about 20 minutes per
> bird. The job is messy and the chickens don't appreciate it.
Our locker charges $1.50/bird, plucked, cleaned, cooled to 40F. We cut em
up and package for 2 adults.
> Even though I got my birds for free, and they were nearly market
> weight, I have to estimate my costs at a minimum of $10/bird. The
> process has been educational and fun at times, but unless the cost of
> whole chickens reaches $4 or more per pound, I won't be raising any
> more birds for meat. The economic incentive just isn't there.
We paid 85¢/chick and raise 20-25 each year. Have been for 8-10 years.
They are ready to butcher in 6-7 weeks. Again, the quality of the meat is
SO much better than store bought from the chicken factories as to be
uncomparable. Once you've eaten it you'll see that store-bought tastes like
spotted-owl, or worse.
Steve
41N
== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 12:59 pm
From: Dennis
On 31 Jul 2008 04:21:14 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>Can anyone help me figure this out, please?
>I paid .99/lb for a chicken and made some broth to freeze
>for future use.
>My yield was 1.6 lbs of *pure ground chicken meat and 7 full
>quarts of broth.
>* meaning no bones in the grinder-I handpicked the carcass
>so the weight of the meat was just that, meat only and I have
>an accurate scale.
>
>The ingredients that went into the broth were from the garden so I can't
>for the life of me figure out how to calculate the cost of
>the seeds or plants.
>That's problem #1.
>The bones were used for simmering and later put into the
>compost bin.
>Water was done by irrigation water shares and by flood so
>no pump electricity was used for watering.
>The time on my electric range to cook the chicken down was
>a total of 5 hours over the course of two days.
>I'm not including any of my time spent processing the chicken.
>Problem #2 is:
>What would the price per pound of the chicken really be
>when all is said and done? And would I need to deduct
>the cost of the broth from the total?
>
>I should know how to do this and it's driving me crazy.
While you're at it, maybe you can also figure out if a chicken and a
half can lay an egg and a half in a day in a half, how long will it
take a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick all the seeds out of a
dill pickle?
;-)
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 1:14 pm
From: Dennis
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:35:59 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
<chicken ranching trevails snipped>
>Even though I got my birds for free, and they were nearly market
>weight, I have to estimate my costs at a minimum of $10/bird. The
>process has been educational and fun at times, but unless the cost of
>whole chickens reaches $4 or more per pound, I won't be raising any
>more birds for meat. The economic incentive just isn't there.
>
>The more I grasp the way that chickens are raised and processed
>commercially, the more in awe I am of the systems.
Were the butchered birds at least palatable? Our experience was that
the meat from our home-raised, free-range, home-butchered clucks was
roughly the consistency of old boot leather. Pretty much inedible no
matter how we cooked it (we finally just made broth and fed the rest
to the dog and cat). My theory is that we waited too long to butcher,
but given the initial results we haven't been very eager to try again.
Big disappointment and, as you experienced, not cost effective. Eggs
are much better, but still barely break even on feed costs.
One thing we did learn was that we could take our tough old roosters
to the local poutry auction and get $8-10 a piece for them. I have no
idea why people pay that for a rooster -- maybe just to add genetic
diversity to their own flocks? Anyway, it makes an outlet for the
excess roosters and pays for the gas to haul them to auction.
Our clucks are mostly a hobbie. Two daughters raise and show them for
4H and DW is a 4H leader. Plus we get all the eggs we can eat and
sell the excess to a small list of regular buyers.
Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.
== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 1:16 pm
From: Terri
Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:9b6494tfe0qoiuondj2trsn6jhfcaeum9b@4ax.com:
>
> While you're at it, maybe you can also figure out if a chicken and a
> half can lay an egg and a half in a day in a half, how long will it
> take a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick all the seeds out of a
> dill pickle?
> ;-)
Hah! I'd forgotten just how evil you really are!
Maybe I'll just go shoot and eat the neighbor's noisy peacocks.
== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 1:19 pm
From: Terri
Steve IA <new@xnews.netl> wrote in
news:Xns9AEC8A37EDCB3newxnewsnet@194.177.96.78:
> Our locker charges $1.50/bird, plucked, cleaned, cooled to 40F. We cut
> em up and package for 2 adults.
That's pretty good. The local place I was looking at charges $3.00/bird:
http://www.homegrownpoultry.net/
== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 1:23 pm
From: Dennis
On 31 Jul 2008 20:16:01 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:9b6494tfe0qoiuondj2trsn6jhfcaeum9b@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> While you're at it, maybe you can also figure out if a chicken and a
>> half can lay an egg and a half in a day in a half, how long will it
>> take a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick all the seeds out of a
>> dill pickle?
>> ;-)
>Hah! I'd forgotten just how evil you really are!
>
>Maybe I'll just go shoot and eat the neighbor's noisy peacocks.
Mmm... beer-can peacock ...
Dennis (evil)
--
"There is a fine line between participation and mockery" - Wally
== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 1:31 pm
From: Terri
hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote in
news:i6u394thmpk3t9knst9orafi1nmkaf2lhh@4ax.com:
> On 31 Jul 2008 15:04:16 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>
><snipped>
>>I do plan on raising chickens next year so by knowing
>>what the price is this way I can compare it later on when
>>I'm growing my own.
>
> Terri,
>
> While I am a fan of self-sufficiency and home-grown food, I can tell
> you from recent experience that there is no way that you can home
> raise and butcher chickens at a cost anywhere near $1.00/lb.
>
> Right off the top, you have the expense of the housing. If you have
> predators in the area, then you can forget using chicken wire as
> sufficient caging - unless - you are willing to take a chance on
> losing your entire investment in one night. Figure a minimum coop or
> tractor cost of $50 if you construct it yourself. A much more
> comfortable figure would be $250 for something with more space.
This is one of the main reasons we're not even thinking about getting
any just yet. That and the fact that until I sell my other house
money is tight right now.
While we've got 5.5 acres, it comes with coyotes, fox, hawks, owls,
badgers, raccoons and the occasional roaming dog.
I'd need a fortress to lock them up in at night. We're thinking
of using some spare bricks that came with the place and running
some hot wire around the outside to plug in at night. I'd
set it up in back of the shop near power so I can also keep
the water thawed in the winter.
>
> Next, the price of my last 50 lb bag of grower/finisher feed at
> Tractor Supply was $15. It took a little over a week for 17 of my 14
> week old culls to go through that, plus table scraps, plus the wormy
> corn from the garden. The culls are Cobbs, which have been ruthlessly
> bred for feed to meat efficiency, so expect even higher feed costs
> from other breeds.
That's good to know. Thanks, Harry.
>
> Don't forget the expense of butchering. If you value your time at
> even minimum wage, you lose money. I figure about 20 minutes per
> bird. The job is messy and the chickens don't appreciate it.
Having once been party to butchering @50 old chickens once as a kid,
I flat refuse to ever do it again. Paying someone to do the deed
is money well spent to me. <shudder>
I'd rather pump out a septic tank with a garden hose.
:)
>
> Then there are the intangibles. I'm now recovering from a nice (not!)
> bout of salmonella. The prime suspects are eggs from a neighbor's
> home operation (maybe), some cheap hot dogs from save-a-lot
> (unlikely), and my caring for and butchering of the chickens(most
> likely). Chickens poop... a lot. Broiler breeds don't roost like
> others, but just plop down when they get bored with standing. Unless
> they have a huge area, they inevitably lie on their poop (as well as
> eat it while scratching for other food).
I'm not sure yet what breeds we're interested in. I want both eggs
and meat.
Moving a tractor twice a day
> or keeping a minimal number of birds might minimize the problem, but
> in summer you have to look for shady spots, and in winter...
>
> The point is that with broilers, unless you want to run the birds
> through a car wash or the dishwasher before butchering, there is going
> to be some poop on them, something that a lot of literature
> conveniently forgets to mention. Processing plants have methods of
> safely dealing with this, home growers have to figure things out as
> best they can.
There is one other aspect of this that I hadn't mentioned and that is
that I'm in the process of getting an organic rating. There is a large
chain health food store moving in my area next year and a big organic
market opening up. In addition to the chickens I'm eyeballing the
possibility of growing heirloom tomatoes.
>
> Even though I got my birds for free, and they were nearly market
> weight, I have to estimate my costs at a minimum of $10/bird. The
> process has been educational and fun at times, but unless the cost of
> whole chickens reaches $4 or more per pound, I won't be raising any
> more birds for meat. The economic incentive just isn't there.
I'm curious, would you do it for eggs and bug control only? With
a different breed, of course.
== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 2:46 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 20:35:11 +0200 (CEST), Steve IA <new@xnews.netl>
wrote:
>Our locker charges $1.50/bird, plucked, cleaned, cooled to 40F. We cut em
>up and package for 2 adults.
>We paid 85¢/chick and raise 20-25 each year. Have been for 8-10 years.
>They are ready to butcher in 6-7 weeks.
If you are only raising for 6 to 7 weeks, the meat will obviously be
more tender than that from older birds. You stated that you have
$2.35 invested per bird, between purchase of chicks and butchering,
without the cost of feed factored in.
In a best case scenario, excluding any deaths or unusual events, a
2:1 feed to weight ratio means that a 4 lb bird would use 8 lb of
feed. Skipping any variations in cost of starter/finisher and using
the $15 bag from TSC, I get $2.40 feed cost per bird. That gets us to
$4.75/bird without any labor cost in raising them or amortization of
the coop. If a 4 lb bird in the market costs $4, then you are paying
at least 75 cents per bird more than someone who buys off-the-shelf.
While you may value the taste, economically, it still doesn't make
sense.
FWIW:
http://www.newfarm.org/columns/org_news/2005/0405/methionine.shtml
== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:16 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
--
----------------------
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice
cannot sleep forever."--Thomas Jefferson
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide
everything." -- Josef V. Stalin
www.myspace.com/bodybuildinggranny
heavy on the country music. if you don't like country, scroll down for
some surprises.
"Terri" <Terri@micron.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9AEC9101E960B7544444@130.133.1.18...
> Dennis <dgw80@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:9b6494tfe0qoiuondj2trsn6jhfcaeum9b@4ax.com:
>
>>
>> While you're at it, maybe you can also figure out if a chicken and a
>> half can lay an egg and a half in a day in a half, how long will it
>> take a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick all the seeds out of a
>> dill pickle?
>> ;-)
> Hah! I'd forgotten just how evil you really are!
>
> Maybe I'll just go shoot and eat the neighbor's noisy peacocks.
which, of course, is why they have them. they, and geese, make excellent
watchfowl.
== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 4:17 pm
From: Dennis
On 31 Jul 2008 20:31:14 GMT, Terri <Terri@micron.net> wrote:
>While we've got 5.5 acres, it comes with coyotes, fox, hawks, owls,
>badgers, raccoons and the occasional roaming dog.
>I'd need a fortress to lock them up in at night. We're thinking
>of using some spare bricks that came with the place and running
>some hot wire around the outside to plug in at night. I'd
>set it up in back of the shop near power so I can also keep
>the water thawed in the winter.
We've lost clucks to coyotes, raccoons and cars (why DID the chicken
cross the road, anyway?). The eagles and hawks like to eyeball the
flock, but so far haven't worked up the courage to grab anything.
Having a chicken-friendly farm dog helps keep the predators at bay.
(Do you still have your dogs?)
>I'm curious, would you do it for eggs and bug control only? With
>a different breed, of course.
Try a few Americanas -- they lay cool-looking blue-green eggs (normal
inside).
Dennis (evil)
--
I'm behind the eight ball, ahead of the curve, riding the wave,
dodging the bullet and pushing the envelope. -George Carlin
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Debbie Meyers GreenBags Review & Banana Freshness Experiment
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/369461a02bf45ba2?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 9:36 am
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"
"Al Bundy" <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote in message
news:1e3675ee-0d69-49ea-89da-c98cca349114@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 29, 7:14 pm, Paul Michaels <PaulMichaels7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I got a package of the Debbie Meyer Green Bags for free from a family
> member who always seems to be buying those sketchy As Seen On TV type
> products.
>
> To test them out, I took two new bananas and put one of them in a
> green bag and left the other one out in the open air.
>
> After leaving them alone in a dark corner of an air conditioned room
> for four days, the banana in the green bag did seem to fare better.
>
> The green bag banana had less black spots on the yellow skin, the
> fruit inside was firmer, and the peel stayed yellow for longer after
> it had been removed.
>
> The open air banana had lots of black spots on the skin, the fruit was
> noticeably mushier, and the peel turned very black a few minutes after
> I peeled it off.
>
> I admit that the experiment was a bit short, but we go shopping once a
> week and fresh produce doesn't hang around too long in this household
> before it is eaten.
>
> Since the banana test, I've been casually using the bags for our
> celery, romaine lettuce, tomatoes and carrots. It seems like the
> produce stays fresher for longer but I haven't done any more
> experiments.
>
> The 20 bag package might be worth the $9.99 price if you buy produce
> in bulk.
> __
> Cheers,
> Paul Michaels
> Ft. Lauderdale, FL
I just don't see the point in wasting money on special bags to
slightly delay the ripening process. If I can't eat it, I can freeze
it and keep it a lot longer than those silly bags. Also, it's not much
of a test to compare 50¢ bags with nothing. What would a regular bag
do? A paper bag? Plastic wrap? I really don't care anyway because I
use or freeze.
the bags let the produce keep for a lot more than a couple of days longer.
and they can be washed and used several times. i prefer to eat my
produce fresh whenever possible, and freezing it required that it
be blanched first, thereby inactivating the very enzymes that i want.
they work a lot better than other wraps. but i get mine in the store,
and i don't think they have the debbie meyer name.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: What are you experiences with Liberty Mutual car/home insurance?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0c30aea067c4c768?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 1:42 pm
From: Joe
I'm thinking of switching my car (Geico) and home (State Farm)
insurance to Liberty Mutual because if iI consolidate with them they
will save me almost 600 over using both or just going with State Farm.
I have good experiences with both Geico and State Farm and have none
with Liberty Mutual. Just wondering what kind of experiences everyone
here have had with Liberty Mutual before I switch.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 2:45 pm
From: Samantha Hill - remove TRASH to reply
Joe wrote:
> I'm thinking of switching my car (Geico) and home (State Farm)
> insurance to Liberty Mutual because if iI consolidate with them they
> will save me almost 600 over using both or just going with State Farm.
> I have good experiences with both Geico and State Farm and have none
> with Liberty Mutual. Just wondering what kind of experiences everyone
> here have had with Liberty Mutual before I switch.
I have never made any claims on my Liberty Mutual policies, but I really
like the customer service I get from them. And when we were getting
motor scooters, they were quick to recommend that we get liability
insurance from a specialty company that had lower rates rather than go
with them, which to me is a credit to them.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: 357 button batteries.....where frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b734feb2b19c623?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 31 2008 1:59 pm
From: zzyzzx
Dollar Tree to be specific, and they don't always have them. They are
made in China so you do really need 8 or whaever the apckage has since
they don't last nearly as long as decent brands. eBay has them cheap
too.
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