Frugal Living: 02/01/2010

Sunday, February 28, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 20 new messages in 5 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Best Skype handset? - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b86d632e2a6b959c?hl=en
* walking boots-- which are good? - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52b4735386145e8e?hl=en
* What's 1 way you enjoy being wasteful? - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d28075f4c0b4eb2f?hl=en
* Cutting down the cost of washing machine powder - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3b767149103b33f0?hl=en
* Recalled products - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7a385f82bdfbd4c8?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Skype handset?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b86d632e2a6b959c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 12:11 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

> I want to start using Skype for calls from home and
> hotspots and use prepaid cell only when out of hotspots.

I use voip instead.

> Anyone recommend a good handset for Skype use?

Some cellphones have built in voip support, like the Nokia N95 and N97 and E65

Very convenient to use, you can make a voip call when the
hotspot is available and just select a normal call when its not.

At home I use an ATA which allows you to use a normal cordless phone for voip calls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_telephony_adapter

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 3:00 pm
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Some cellphones have built in voip support, like the Nokia N95 and N97 and E65
>
>Very convenient to use, you can make a voip call when the
>hotspot is available and just select a normal call when its not.

Yeah I should have bought the Nokia E65 when it was on
deep sale... but didn't. I will check around and see
if any sales tho

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 3:01 pm
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I want to start using Skype for calls from home and
>> hotspots and use prepaid cell only when out of hotspots.
>
>I use voip instead.

Skype is voip..... no?

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 4:28 pm
From: Rick

me@privacy.net wrote:
> "Rod Speed"<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I want to start using Skype for calls from home and
>>> hotspots and use prepaid cell only when out of hotspots.
>>
>> I use voip instead.
>
> Skype is voip..... no?

Yes.

Check RadioShack for a headset with mic and headphones.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 7:22 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> I want to start using Skype for calls from home and
>>> hotspots and use prepaid cell only when out of hotspots.

>> I use voip instead.

> Skype is voip..... no?

Yes, but real voip isnt proprietary so you can change VSPs, and
have mulitple VSPs as well. The VSP is the voip service provider.

I have two VSPs, neither of which charges any monthly fee,
so if one is having a glitch, its trivial to use the other etc.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: walking boots-- which are good?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52b4735386145e8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 12:36 pm
From: Phil Cook

SMS wrote:

>In any case, the bottom line remains the same when buying walking
>(hiking) boots. First look for the necessary design elements which are:
>
>1. GORE-TEX� lining (or other breathable waterproof membrane lining) for
>breathable waterproofness (nearly all mid to high end boots have this).
>NEVER buy hiking boots that lack a breathable waterproof membrane lining.

<sigh> What was that about the constant repitition of an idea
imprinting it in the consciousness of an audience? Didn't it have
something to do with Hitler?

It seems it did...

"But the most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success
unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with
unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and
repeat them over and over." -- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 184

You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
already a breathable waterproof material.
--
Phil Cook, last hill: Am Bodach in the Mamores on a sunny day :-)
pictures at http://www.therewaslight.co.uk soonish...

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 12:54 pm
From: bobharvey

On 27 Feb, 20:36, Phil Cook <p...@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
> materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
> already a breathable waterproof material.

I'd go along with that. I've got gore-tex boots but I've been
perfectly happy with ones that didn't have it. proper leather boots
have a tradition going back, ooh, millenia.

For much of the late 90s young blokes in Europe bought second hand
east german airforce boots, which laced up to somewhere near the
chin. They wore them for work, cycling, hill walking, and (in the
case of some I knew) for job interviews. The construction was leather,
leather, with added leather. They were fantastically popular with
people who had no money, and seemed nearly indestructible and
comfortable enough to sleep in.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 1:12 pm
From: "Chris Gilbert"

Phil Cook wrote

> <sigh> What was that about the constant repitition of an idea
> imprinting it in the consciousness of an audience? Didn't it have
> something to do with Hitler?

Gosh, Phil. That's desperately close to Godwin's law :-D

Or was that the idea ;-)

Chris

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 1:26 pm
From: bobharvey

On 25 Feb, 09:30, Phil Cook <p...@p-t-cook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> I worded it rather poorly. What I should have said was that boots or
> shoes that are uncomfortable because of poor fit will never become
> comfortable.

There is much in that, although the human being will adapt to almost
anything. My father told of being issued the boots he wore at D-day:

MD: "Sarge, these boots don't bend anywhere!"
Sergeant: "No, lad, but your feet do. Put em on now"

I do think that comfortable fit, at the front and round the heel are
really important ways to choose a boot. I've also had to reject some
that simply don't come high enough up the ankle. There also needs to
be a clear space under the instep - trying to match the whole sole to
the arch of the foot is fraught with risks of blisters. Don't forget
that your forefoot spreads sideways (and a tiny bit forward) after
walking a while, especially if you normally wear fashion shoes in
'real life'.

I tried some anti-shoes in Germany last week - they had a wierd shaped
sole which had a convex curve from front to back. Standing still only
the bit under your instep touched the ground, the toe and heel (there
wasn't a heel) had a good 10mm of clearance. Designed by all sorts
of sports experts I thought they were just horrid. I might be wrong,
but that's how they seemed to me.

(http://www.mbtshoe.co.uk/ these seem to be similar idea, but less
extreme)

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 1:29 pm
From: bobharvey

On 19 Feb, 13:49, ®óñ© © ²°¹° <r...@spamall.com> wrote:
> After you've got the boots, don't forget that it's virtually illegal
> nowadays to walk outside the house without the use of Nordic Walking
> Sticks, even if you're just popping round the corner for a paper.

Tell me about it. I was perforated in about a million places by
people carrying them on the tram in Zurich, just to get from the house
to the tram stop, or up the stairs at work.

Now that we arn't allowed to carry swords as part of our daily office
work, someone has come up with the idea of carrying two spears instead.

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 2:22 pm
From: SMS

Phil Cook wrote:

> imprinting it in the consciousness of an audience? Didn't it have
> something to do with Hitler?

Godwin's Law. You lose. You made a mistake and I'm man enough to admit it.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 2:37 pm
From: Scott Bryce

Phil Cook wrote:
> You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
> materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
> already a breathable waterproof material.

You only need a waterproof boot if you intend to walk for long periods
of time in wet conditions or in mud.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 3:24 pm
From: "Paul Saunders"

Scott Bryce wrote:

> Phil Cook wrote:

>> You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
>> materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
>> already a breathable waterproof material.
>
> You only need a waterproof boot if you intend to walk for long periods
> of time in wet conditions or in mud.

Hmm... Pretty much mandatory for the UK then.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 4:43 pm
From: SMS

Paul Saunders wrote:
> Scott Bryce wrote:
>
>> Phil Cook wrote:
>
>>> You only need a waterproof membrane in your boots if they are made of
>>> materials that are not inherently waterproof. Treated leather is
>>> already a breathable waterproof material.
>> You only need a waterproof boot if you intend to walk for long periods
>> of time in wet conditions or in mud.
>
> Hmm... Pretty much mandatory for the UK then.

Plus you can't always plan when you might end up in wet conditions.

Actually a waterproof membrane is not required, you can take full grain
leather boots and seal them with Sno-Seal or other similar product. The
down side to this is that you're blocking all the pores of leather so
the leather can't breathe and you end up with sweaty, stinky feet and boots.

It's almost a non-issue these days anyway. Only the lowest end hiking
boots lack a GoreTex (or competing product) breathable waterproof
membrane. There's no real down side, the membrane is more breathable
than the leather, so even with no membrane you won't get any more air
circulation.

It's popular to bash GoreTex, especially since their early products were
not very durable or long-lasting, but the past several generations of
GoreTex don't have the problems that their early products did.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's 1 way you enjoy being wasteful?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d28075f4c0b4eb2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 3:06 pm
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Just a big thermal mass heated by resistance electric heat for use later?
>
>Yes.
>
>> Have link?
>http://www.derbyheatbanks.com.au/
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_heater
>

Excellent strategy!!

Have not heard of them in USA

Is this widespread in Au?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 4:26 pm
From: Rick

me@privacy.net wrote:
> "Rod Speed"<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Just a big thermal mass heated by resistance electric heat for use later?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> Have link?
>> http://www.derbyheatbanks.com.au/
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_heater
>>
>
> Excellent strategy!!
>
> Have not heard of them in USA
>
> Is this widespread in Au?

i CALL IT a "hot water heater" :=)

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 7:27 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>> Just a big thermal mass heated by resistance electric heat for use later?

>> Yes.

>>> Have link?
>> http://www.derbyheatbanks.com.au/
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_heater

> Excellent strategy!!

Yeah, its also got the advantage that the appliances are
very simple indeed and completely trivial to replace a heating
element or thermostat or fusible link when one dies etc.

> Have not heard of them in USA

> Is this widespread in Au?

Nar, not that commonly used now. I did come across one just the
other day on a yard sale run, but thats the only other one I have
ever seen, tho that doesnt prove much, you dont actually go inside
the house that often at most yard sales, usually just in the yard or
the garage etc.

Mate of mine who used to be an electrician said
that he didnt get all that many of them in his work.

You can also do it with electrically heated floors which are much
more common in the US, using the concrete floor as the thermal
mass, but that doesnt work as well because you dont have any
control over the release of the energy and you cant have the
extreme range from high to low temp either.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 7:31 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Rick wrote
> me@privacy.net wrote
>> Rod Speed<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> Just a big thermal mass heated by resistance electric heat for use later?

>>> Yes.

>>>> Have link?
>>> http://www.derbyheatbanks.com.au/
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_heater

>> Excellent strategy!!

>> Have not heard of them in USA

>> Is this widespread in Au?

> i CALL IT a "hot water heater" :=)

Yeah, you can do it that way but you need a lot more
space when water is the thermal mass, because you
dont have anything like the same temperature range.

The ones that use metal bricks have a temp range from ambient
to quite literally red hot and they have that fancy silica insulation
that was developed for space reentry heat shields.

No risk of leaks either.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cutting down the cost of washing machine powder
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3b767149103b33f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 3:17 pm
From: andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel)

In article <cd87b90b-94f0-4225-8ec8-27f34be98f47@o3g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
"hr(bob) hofmann@att.net" <hrhofmann@att.net> writes:
> On Feb 19, 1:59�pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> john bently wrote:
>> > Since most peoples clothes are not really that dirty as a general rule, is
>> > there not a simpler less expensive alternative that could be made up to put
>> > in a washing machine? � �Thanks for any advice.
>>
>> Buy a bucket of laundry soap powder at Costco and it will last you six
>> months to a year. Use half the amount they recommend. Avoid liquid
>> laundry detergent which is far more expensive than powder.
> I don't know if there is a COSTCO in the UK, where the OP seems to be
> located.

Costco exist in the UK, and I buy my washing detergent powder
in the giant boxes from there. Takes me 1-2 years to get through
one. It's much cheaper than buying the regular size boxes in shops
(keep an eye out for Costco special offers as you start running out),
but main reason is I don't have to buy and carry it home so often.
Adjust dose to match the amount of dirt you expect it to need to
remove from the clothes.

> Also, in the US we have "Consumers
> Reports" that has done a comparison of many different brands of
> clothes washing soap. And, as others have said try using half the
> amount the manufacturer recommends and see if that isn't just as
> good. The mfgr has no incentive to recommend anything less than the
> maximum amount they can get you to use and still have most of it come
> out in the rinse.

Bare in mind US washing soap and European washing detergent are
completely different things, because the washing machines have
completely different methods of washing.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Recalled products
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7a385f82bdfbd4c8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 6:59 pm
From: enough

he past few weeks in product recalls: lots and lots of lead and
salmonella. Not in the same products. As far as we know.

Food and Consumables
Trader Joe's Chocolate Chip Chewy Coated Granola Bars - salmonella
Turkey Hill Chocolate Marshmallow Ice Cream - undeclared almonds
Giant Food 24 oz. Party Platter Cookies - undeclared almonds
Estrella Family Creamery Red Darla cheese - possible listeria
infection
Nature's Variety raw chicken dog food - salmonella
Flying Horse Black and White Sesame Chewy Candy - undeclared peanuts
Lemon Chalet Creme Girl Scout Cookies - rancid oils
Fresh & Easy Neighborhood Market Chewy Chocolate Chip Granola Bars -
salmonella
Health Valley Organic Peanut Crunch, Dutch Apple and Wildberry Chewy
Granola Bars - salmonella
Queseria Bendita Queso Fresco, Panela, and Requeso - listeria
Wholesome Spice 25 Lb. Boxes Of Crushed Red Pepper - salmonella

Furniture and Household
Thermador Built-In Ovens - fire hazard
Lysol Steam Cleaning Mop - Can squirt hot Lysol water at you.
Discovery Kids Animated Marine and Safari Lamp - fire hazard
Copco and Wild Leaf Tea Co. Bristol model and Martha Stewart
Collection® Enameled Steel Tea Kettles - handle can fall off - burn
hazard

Health Care
LifeScan OneTouch SureStep Test Strips - inaccurate readings

Babies and Children
Danbar Knight Hawk Toy Helicopters (Radio Shack) - fire hazard (while
charging, not while flying)
Nature Wonders Horse Figures (Walmart) - lead paint
Boy's Three-Piece Santa Set (Macy's) - buttons pose choking hazard
Tiny Tink[erbell] and Friends Children's Toy Jewelry Sets - metal
connector contains lead
Papyrus Brand Greeting Cards with bracelets - lead paint
Special Forces and Police SWAT Toy Gun Sets (Dollar General) - choking
hazard
ChildDESIGNS Generation 2 Cribs - death and injury hazard
Pull-A-Long Friends Pull Toys - choking hazard
Britax "Blink" Umbrella Strollers - finger amputation hazard
Allreds Design baby brakcelets and pacifier clips - lead
"Tiny Love" wind chimes - full of tiny stabby metal rods

Electronics
Franklin Electric Motor Controllers for Submersible Pump Systems -
shock hazard
GE Telaire Airestat and Carrier Single Beam Carbon Dioxide (CO2) and
Temperature Sensors - fire hazard

Hobbies and Recreation
Horizon Fitness and LIVESTRONG Fitness Elliptical Trainers - Pedals
can randomly fall off.
More About:

* recalls,
* roundups,
* recall roundup

From ConsumerReports.org:

* Tip of the Day: How to cope with the latest nasty winter weather
* Toyota, regulators grilled for second day on Capitol Hill
* 2011 Hyundai Sonata recall, stop sale

http://consumerist.com/2010/02/recall-roundup-1.html

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Saturday, February 27, 2010

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Ring around the collar with the toilet - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/41110c983394b5e5?hl=en
* What's 1 way you enjoy being wasteful? - 11 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d28075f4c0b4eb2f?hl=en
* home energy tax credit - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9a9c93b7bf6716bd?hl=en
* paypal wholesale all brand(UGGBOOTS,SHOES,CLOTHES,HANDBAG,WATCH,JEANS,JERSEY,
T-SHIRT,SHIRTS,HOODY,EYEGLASS,CAP,SHAWL,WALLT) and so on. - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/117c5d3d3eac3ed3?hl=en
* ◆⊙◆ HOT Sale!!! 2010 Get low price wholesale ED Hardy Long Sleeve, AF Long
Sleeve, LV Long Sleeve ect at www.rijing-trade.com <Paypal Payment> - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c4c8a74157fa580d?hl=en
* Ahben.com launches a Free eCommerce site! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eb0b6b83b22ac588?hl=en
* Paypal payment>>>> Replica Jordan Shoes with original Box Cheap Wholesale
free shiopping (www.vipchinatrade.com) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22dbb752ba63ea49?hl=en
* walking boots-- which are good? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/52b4735386145e8e?hl=en
* Best Skype handset? - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b86d632e2a6b959c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ring around the collar with the toilet
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/41110c983394b5e5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 9:34 pm
From: "Annie Woughman"

"noel888" <harri85274@aol.com> wrote in message
news:68338263-0c48-4078-a66f-c46874da9768@u9g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Remember that old tv commercial about the ring around the collar of a
> shirt? Well i seem to have that problem with my commode...daily
> scrubbing does not get rid of a ring at its water level in the
> commode, not the tank. I've used comet, bleach and now CLR to no
> avail...the main problem is getting that water line to stay low to
> keep that area dry enough for the liquid cleaners to do their work...i
> guess. Any other suggestions on how to get rid of that ring that has
> worked for you? I cannot afford to buy another commode just for that
> ring problem..and yet its not something you want visitors to see
> either. What gets me is that commercial about CLR, and how thorough it
> is in cleaning rust and etc.

We get that in our 2nd bathroom that isn't used much. It is a hard water
ring. About every six months I do this and it gets rid of it: Lift the
seat of the toilet and take a large pail of water and dump it directly into
the bowl. This will cause it to flush without refilling the bowl. Take a
square of VERY FINE sand paper (it is usually black) and gently scrub the
ring away. When the ring is gone, follow up with a little comet or ajax and
then flush the toilet normally. The bowl should be good for another six
months before the build-up returns. (It depends on how hard your water is.)

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 1:56 am
From: "Jim...(8-| "

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 15:38:13 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jim...(8-| wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>> I basically buy whatever I feel like technology wise,
>>>>> have the lights and heaters etc all fully automated,
>
>>>> what hardware are you using to automate lights and heaters?
>
>>> X10
>
>> It doesn't sound like you have reverse cycle A/C?
>
>Nope, I use a swamp cooler in summer, vastly better value.

Yeah, i didn't think of your dry heat, those evaporator things are
useless here.
>
>I use electric heat, and have just lately changed over to using a
>heated throw rather than keeping the entire room nice and warm.
>
>The house is passive solar and that works fine unless its a very overcast heavy cloud day.
>
>> The heat from that is splendid for a warm up job when
>> cold and I think rather rends olde style heaters past it.
>
>It doesnt work that well here, its too cold outside when I need the
>heat most, first thing in the morning before the sun comes up and
>I get the advantage of the passive solar sitting in the sun. Its too
>cold outside for reverse cycle to work well here, and the main
>room is very lossy with vast amounts of north facing glass.
>
>It wouldnt be economical to replace that glass with very high tech
>tripple glazing now, it makes a lot more sense to use an electric
>storage heater that gets charged overnight to warm the room up
>quickly. I get up very early indeed, often 4am or earlier and thats
>well before the sun comes up. So it makes more sense to use
>a heated throw and then turn that off when I'm sitting in the sun later.

I'm in the process of boarding up our windows, we don't need any sun
shining in, and anything to quieten the outside noise is a bonus.
>
>> Not a difficult job to fit a split system A/C either and
>> they can be had at a pretty reasonable price now.
>
>Sure, but the problem is that the outside temps are so low when
>I want it to provide heat that they dont work that well in my situation.
>Makes more sense to get the quick boost of the air temp using
>stored electrical heat and use the heated throw until the sun comes up.

I can't help but think the belief about not working in cold temps may
be a furphy. You're more switched on than me in these techy things but
in my mind providing the outside temp is higher than the boiling point
of the refrigerating gas then it should work. Even at -10 with a big
block of ice sitting on the evaporator coil (the outside one when in
reverse) it should still function.
Where am I wrong? as they say they don't work near freezing point.
>
>Even in the evening after the sun has gone down, a heated throw
>costs a hell of a lot less to run than any reverse cycle system does.
>
>Same for the days with no sun too.
>

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 2:49 am
From: Ohioguy

>You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
>necessity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
>still a luxury?

It depends on who you ask. Try asking a homeless guy on the street,
and his answer will likely vary from that of a guy with a $400k house
and a nice suit job.

I'd still classify it as a luxury, because as I'm typing this, I'm
connecting using dialup. (all2easy.net - $5 a month) However, more and
more websites are ASSUMING you have high speed Internet, and are
becoming very difficult to use if you have dialup. Plus, if you have
dialup, nobody can contact you when you are online, unless you are
willing to pay another $7 a month for call waiting. I'd much rather pay
$20 a month for DSL than $12 for dialup and call waiting. Of course,
I'd also much rather pay about $10 for high speed Internet than $20.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 5:46 am
From: "The Henchman"

"Michael Black" <et472@ncf.ca> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.64.1002262306430.7000@darkstar.example.net...

> Telephones aren't a necessity, one could live with mail. That virtually
> everyone has a telephone is mostly the way society has decided.

I think that opinion is not correct. Telephones are a necessacity. For
example, this week I had to file an insurance claim. I had to make this
over the telephone, as there were no papers to download from their internet
site that related to my claim. When a winter storm hit this week and I was
going to be two hours late picking my wife up from work I phoned her and
told her. When Granma slipped and fell in her house, slashing her leg open,
she use a telephone to call us for help.

>
> The internet is probably that way, you can do a lot with it so most
> people aren't willing to abandon it.
>
> But high speed? What you'll probably find is that most of what people use
> high speed for doesn't rate as a necessity. If TV isn't a necessity, then
> getting it over the internet sure isn't. Sure you can download songs
> faster if you have high speed internet, but many wouldn't consider buying
> music (or stealing music) a necessity. A lot of things that make high
> speed internet "valuable" is a result of things shifting to the end user.
> Great, some independent movie maker can distribute their movie "for free"
> but it relies on the end user paying for high speed internet.
>
> Michael

Yeah you've made some good points on the high speed issues and it describes
some of the patterns in my home, but around my town basic high speed
internet is lower in price than dial-up (although before I cement this
claim, I should check-out the small independent). At least with the utility
and telecom companies dial-up is about 22.95 a month, unlimited usage and
basic high speed about 10.99 a month (with 10 gb data cap). My town is full
of fibre optic and high quality copper wires, plus there are all kinds of
hills with towers that offer wireless. Competition and availability has
made high speed very value priced.

Another argument with high speed internet is it's replaced my car in many
ways: All my banking and finances are done online (so no bank line-up), all
my bills are paid online, taxes filed online, some clothing and books etc
purchase online, at lower prices. Online shopping has replaced catalogue
shopping I believe.

Another example: all my retirement planning has been done online (research,
purchases, sales, investment accounts). I guess I can go to a "guy" but I
do all my own research and keep the fees to myself. With high speed, the
public library is in my house 24 hours a day. High speed allows us to free
more time, use the car less, plan more efficiently, save a few dollars.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 8:50 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <gN6in.22$_v6.13@newsfe08.iad>, Ohioguy <none@none.net>
wrote:

> >You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
> >necessity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
> >still a luxury?
>
> It depends on who you ask. Try asking a homeless guy on the street,
> and his answer will likely vary from that of a guy with a $400k house
> and a nice suit job.
>
> I'd still classify it as a luxury, because as I'm typing this, I'm
> connecting using dialup. (all2easy.net - $5 a month) However, more and
> more websites are ASSUMING you have high speed Internet, and are
> becoming very difficult to use if you have dialup. Plus, if you have
> dialup, nobody can contact you when you are online, unless you are
> willing to pay another $7 a month for call waiting. I'd much rather pay
> $20 a month for DSL than $12 for dialup and call waiting. Of course,
> I'd also much rather pay about $10 for high speed Internet than $20.

For me, broadband Internet access at home is an essential part of my
life, but I work in the computer industry. I have the fastest broadband
I can get in my area. Just about an hour ago, something came up at work
and I had to VPN in and fix it. If I was on dial up, that process would
have been painfully slow. With my fast broadband service, it took me
about five minutes to fix.

I am in graduate school too. A good deal of the content for the courses
I take is online, even though we have weekly class lectures. We have to
go online and read some materials every week prior to class, in addition
to reading our textbook.

I have a cousin who is a few years younger than me, maybe around 42. He
is well below the poverty level. He and his mom share a one bedroom
apartment and they barely get by each month on his disability and her
social security income. They have Comcast's basic Internet and digital
cable TV, which they got as a package deal.

Even applying for a low skilled job such as convenience store cashiers
is done online. With the cutbacks at the public libraries, getting there
and finding an available Internet station is a real challenge, so even
for my cousin and my aunt who don't have two dimes to rub together most
of the time, Internet access is important.

About two years ago, I set up my cousin with a used Gateway PC with
Windows XP which I bought for a mere $25, including the monitor. My
cousin uses it for a variety of things, including making a few extra
dollars online each month doing surveys. So the little bit of money he
makes pays for their ISP service, but not much more than that.

Even my cheapskate dad got hooked on the Internet. My folks are
fortunate that they really don't have to worry about where their next
meal comes from. My dad has no real expenses other than some co-pays for
medicines my mom takes and his real estate taxes, which only amount to
maybe $120 a month. So for him, having DSL is not a big crimp in his
budget.

My sister had to move in with my parents for a few months last year. She
needs broadband for her job and my dad complained a lot about having it
installed in his house because he said its an unnecessary expense. My
sister got her way (as she usually does with my dad). She eventually
showed my dad lots of things that interest him on the Internet such as
wikipedia and google searches. My sister moved out six months ago. When
she moved, I got my dad a cheap Mac mini and he continued the lowest
level DSL which my sister originally had installed. He's hooked now on
the Internet and now he's learning about email and facebook. My dad can
spend hours online looking up info on topics such as botany, fishing,
and home repairs and other topics of interest to him and now through
facebook, he's hooked up with some family members that live thousands of
miles away. For the $20 or so my dad spends on his DSL a month, it is a
bargain. Than again, from my perspective, my dad's broadband is still
way too slow for my taste. If I do a Mac OS X security update, for
example, it can take 20 minutes to download on his Mac mini, whereas the
same update might take a minute or two on my iMac, but for my dad, his
slow DSL is fine.

My dad refuses to pay for cable or satellite TV, but he has TWO fairly
new HDTVs. He has HDTV rabbit ears on both sets and the quality of the
over the air HD is amazing on his two televisions. For me, I have no
choice but to subscribe to paid TV, although HDTV is a luxury. Due to
the construction of the apartment building where I live, rabbit ears
will not work and an exterior antenna is out of the question so I have
Comcast HDTV, with one HD DVR and one HD box (non-DVR). I hate watching
SD TV now, but if I had the choice between broadband and paid TV, I
would ditch the paid TV and keep the broadband because I need it for my
job and I can always watch popular TV shows and the news via steaming
video.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 8:59 am
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.1002262306430.7000@darkstar.example.net>,
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, The Henchman wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "Jim...(8-| " <jim@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:c9hfo558g7h58pssv5g01pklvnn00do9rb@4ax.com...
> > .
> >>
> >> It has changed our viewing and now we avoid SD as much as feasible
> >> including waiting for sports events to be replayed by them in HD
> >> rather than endure the local stations commercial ridden blur.
> >> Our week would comprise 100+ hours of TV viewing in concert with our
> >> internet usage so I can't see any point being stingy with TV. Although
> >> our 101 cm Samsung whilst being a quality unit when we bought it 18
> >> months ago may have been better served being a bit bigger.
> >
> >
> > You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
> > nesscessacity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
> > still a luxury?
> >
> > To me television is a luxury, although it is useful from time to time: the
> > cooking shows and weather reports. What about Internet? And since many
> > people are now combining internet and television into one bill, that
> > becomes
> > clouded to.
> >
> Telephones aren't a necessity, one could live with mail. That virtually
> everyone has a telephone is mostly the way society has decided.
>
> The internet is probably that way, you can do a lot with it so most
> people aren't willing to abandon it.
>
> But high speed? What you'll probably find is that most of what people use
> high speed for doesn't rate as a necessity. If TV isn't a necessity, then
> getting it over the internet sure isn't. Sure you can download songs
> faster if you have high speed internet, but many wouldn't consider buying
> music (or stealing music) a necessity. A lot of things that make high
> speed internet "valuable" is a result of things shifting to the end user.
> Great, some independent movie maker can distribute their movie "for free"
> but it relies on the end user paying for high speed internet.
>
> Michael

But these days, even applying for most jobs requires that the applicant
fill out an online application, plus doing things such as banking online
is a hell of a lot more convenient than doing it face-to-face, not to
mention that one of my bank accounts is with ING Direct, which is based
in Europe. I am in NJ, so going there to make a deposit, up until
recently, wasn't a viable option. ING does now have a brick and mortar
bank branch near me though.

Hell, just this morning, I checked on three bank accounts (all local
banks) without leaving my apartment. This resulted in a big savings in
time and money (no gas). I transferred money from my tax rebate to a
checking account at a different bank, then I logged onto that bank and I
scheduled an extra car payment in the amount that I transferred to that
account.

I also trade stocks online a few times a year. For example, one stock I
bought last year (SIRI) has made enough profit to pay for my broadband
ISP service for several years to come if I sold it now, which I do not
intend to do.

I am also shopping for a house. I haven't had any luck finding a home
that fully suits my needs yet, but the online realtor.com web site has
been invaluable to me in searching for homes, not to mention the
realtor.com iPhone app, which is the best thing since sliced bread for
those who are shopping for a home. Without Internet access, I couldn't
even imagine how much of a drudge it would be to shop for a house. Even
with Internet access, I find home shopping to be tedious and boring.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 10:06 am
From: Balvenieman

Ohioguy <none@none.net> wrote:

>You
>know, something that sort of bothers you because it certainly ISN'T
>frugal, like most of your life, but you still want it enough to do it
>anyway.
>
> I have two:
Well, they don't bother me, at all; neither do I consider any of
them "wasteful"; but here goes:

1) I drink a little whisky almost daily but not to excess; a 750ml
"fifth" (±$50, tax incl) lasts 10-12 days;

2) I may smoke a tobacco-free ciggie from time to time....

3) DW&I never compromise food intrinsic or sensory quality for price,
although, we do shop among sales and so-called "specials"—in most cases,
doing-without beats making-do;

4) After five years' experience, I don't think I could return to dialup
Internet access from highspeed cable. Complex W3 sites would be useless;
streaming audio and video (a near-constant in the household) would be
impossible; my online stock data and charting service (another
near-constant) would be useless.
--
the Balvenieman
Running on single malt in U.S.A.
USDA zone 9b

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 10:22 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Jim...(8-| wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Jim...(8-| wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>>> I basically buy whatever I feel like technology wise,
>>>>>> have the lights and heaters etc all fully automated,

>>>>> what hardware are you using to automate lights and heaters?

>>>> X10

>>> It doesn't sound like you have reverse cycle A/C?

>> Nope, I use a swamp cooler in summer, vastly better value.

> Yeah, i didn't think of your dry heat, those evaporator things are useless here.

>> I use electric heat, and have just lately changed over to using a
>> heated throw rather than keeping the entire room nice and warm.

>> The house is passive solar and that works fine unless its a very
>> overcast heavy cloud day.

>>> The heat from that is splendid for a warm up job when
>>> cold and I think rather rends olde style heaters past it.

>> It doesnt work that well here, its too cold outside when I need the
>> heat most, first thing in the morning before the sun comes up and
>> I get the advantage of the passive solar sitting in the sun. Its too
>> cold outside for reverse cycle to work well here, and the main
>> room is very lossy with vast amounts of north facing glass.

>> It wouldnt be economical to replace that glass with very high tech
>> tripple glazing now, it makes a lot more sense to use an electric
>> storage heater that gets charged overnight to warm the room up
>> quickly. I get up very early indeed, often 4am or earlier and thats
>> well before the sun comes up. So it makes more sense to use
>> a heated throw and then turn that off when I'm sitting in the sun later.

> I'm in the process of boarding up our windows, we don't need any sun shining in,

Dunno, I would have preferred it in BrizVegas one time when
I showed up in Oct, too cold for me in shorts and T shirt.

The parents did have a wood fire too for winter,
but that at night when the sun is long gone.

> and anything to quieten the outside noise is a bonus.

Not a problem here, mine are all 8'x8' patio doors with
heavy armoured glass. That keeps the noise at bay
except when I have the doors open when the cooler is off.

The main problem with that config is that windy days
are a bit of a nuisance blowing the papers around etc.

>>> Not a difficult job to fit a split system A/C either and
>>> they can be had at a pretty reasonable price now.

>> Sure, but the problem is that the outside temps are so low when
>> I want it to provide heat that they dont work that well in my situation.
>> Makes more sense to get the quick boost of the air temp using
>> stored electrical heat and use the heated throw until the sun comes up.

> I can't help but think the belief about not working in cold temps may be a furphy.

Yeah, it certainly is for me, I dont get that effect at all.

I do with the stinking hot days, but thats days over 40C.

> You're more switched on than me in these techy things but
> in my mind providing the outside temp is higher than the
> boiling point of the refrigerating gas then it should work.

The problem is that the outside coils ice up.

Its possible to have them on the sunny north side, but that doesnt
help with my very early starts, the sun doenst come up for 3-4
hours and I dont need the R/C once the sun is up anyway.

It is possible to have the coils against a heavy concrete wall
under a deep eve where the sun has heated that concrete
wall the day before, but there isnt any heat left in it by 3am
the next day unless you have a movable thermal blanket over it.

Its just a lot easier to automate the storage
electrical heater and the heated throw.

The storage heater is still being charged until about 6am when
everyone else is getting out of bed an starting breakfast etc.

> Even at -10 with a big block of ice sitting on the evaporator
> coil (the outside one when in reverse) it should still function.

It still works, but the efficiency is fucked so its not that much better than a fan heater.

And the offpeak power for the storage heater is much
cheaper again, so its much better value than R/C.

> Where am I wrong? as they say they don't work near freezing point.

Its not so much wrong as the efficiency ends up worse than the offpeak power costs.

I really should just sleep in till the sun has come up, but I dont work like that at all.

Big change there. I used to think that 9:30 meetings at work
were a complete obscenity. I hardly ever sleep in till 5 now.

>> Even in the evening after the sun has gone down, a heated throw
>> costs a hell of a lot less to run than any reverse cycle system does.

>> Same for the days with no sun too.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 10:25 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Ohioguy wrote:
>> You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
>> necessity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
>> still a luxury?
>
> It depends on who you ask. Try asking a homeless guy on the street,
> and his answer will likely vary from that of a guy with a $400k house
> and a nice suit job.
>
> I'd still classify it as a luxury, because as I'm typing this, I'm
> connecting using dialup. (all2easy.net - $5 a month) However, more
> and more websites are ASSUMING you have high speed Internet, and are
> becoming very difficult to use if you have dialup. Plus, if you have
> dialup, nobody can contact you when you are online, unless you are
> willing to pay another $7 a month for call waiting. I'd much rather
> pay $20 a month for DSL than $12 for dialup and call waiting.

And in some countrys where you pay for the phone call, DSL can
actually be cheaper than the phone call costs if you use the net much.

And there is the saving with voip as well. I can call anywhere for 8c
per call, total cost of the call, even on the other side of the world
with no monthly cost for the voip service at all, just 8c per call.

> Of course, I'd also much rather pay about $10 for high speed Internet than $20.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 10:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"

The Henchman wrote
> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote

>> Telephones aren't a necessity, one could live with mail. That virtually everyone has a telephone is mostly the way
>> society has decided.

> I think that opinion is not correct. Telephones are a necessacity.

Thats very arguable. Particularly if you allow for cellphones and voip.

> For example, this week I had to file an insurance claim. I had to make this over the telephone, as there were no
> papers to download from their internet site that related to my claim.

Few are in that situation.

> When a winter storm hit this week and I was going to be two hours late picking my wife up from work I phoned her and
> told her.

Doesnt make a phone a necessity, you could have made the call on a neighbour's phone or voip.

> When Granma slipped and fell in her house, slashing her leg open, she use a telephone to call us for help.

That doesnt happen enough for it to be a necessity.

And a cellphone can call 911 without any service paid for.

>> The internet is probably that way, you can do a lot with it so most people aren't willing to abandon it.

>> But high speed? What you'll probably find is that most of what
>> people use high speed for doesn't rate as a necessity. If TV isn't
>> a necessity, then getting it over the internet sure isn't. Sure you
>> can download songs faster if you have high speed internet, but many
>> wouldn't consider buying music (or stealing music) a necessity. A
>> lot of things that make high speed internet "valuable" is a result
>> of things shifting to the end user. Great, some independent movie
>> maker can distribute their movie "for free" but it relies on the end
>> user paying for high speed internet.

> Yeah you've made some good points on the high speed issues and it describes some of the patterns in my home, but
> around my town basic high speed internet is lower in price than dial-up (although before I cement this claim, I should
> check-out the small independent).

Its often true in countrys that charge for phone calls too
particularly when you use voip over the DSL as well.

> At least with the utility and telecom companies dial-up is about 22.95 a
> month, unlimited usage and basic high speed about 10.99 a month
> (with 10 gb data cap). My town is full of fibre optic and high
> quality copper wires, plus there are all kinds of hills with towers
> that offer wireless. Competition and availability has made high
> speed very value priced.

> Another argument with high speed internet is it's replaced my car in
> many ways: All my banking and finances are done online (so no bank
> line-up), all my bills are paid online, taxes filed online, some
> clothing and books etc purchase online, at lower prices.

Yep.

> Online shopping has replaced catalogue shopping I believe.

Not for most.

> Another example: all my retirement planning has been done online
> (research, purchases, sales, investment accounts). I guess I can go
> to a "guy" but I do all my own research and keep the fees to myself. With high speed, the public library is in my
> house 24 hours a day. High speed allows us to free more time, use the car less, plan more
> efficiently, save a few dollars.

And it was so much more convenient than the library when
I got back into vegy growing after not doing it for 50 years.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 10:52 am
From: me@privacy.net

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>t a lot easier to automate the storage
>electrical heater and the heated throw.

Rod.... what is storage electrical heater?

Just a big thermal mass heated by resistance electric
heat for use later?

Have link?

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 12:00 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> a lot easier to automate the storage
>> electrical heater and the heated throw.

> Rod.... what is storage electrical heater?

Its a system where off peak electrical power is used to heat
a stack of metal bricks contained in a very high tech silica
insulation stack. The bricks are heated to red hot using
off peak power which costs a third of the cost of peak
power and the heat is extracted with a long cylindrical
fan in the base of the heater. The charging is done
auto using a thermostat cutoff.

We get off peak power right thru the evening, from about
10pm till about 6am and there is another charge in the
afternoon, from about 2pm till about 4pm roughly.

> Just a big thermal mass heated by resistance electric heat for use later?

Yes.

> Have link?
http://www.derbyheatbanks.com.au/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storage_heater

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 2:58 am
From: Ohioguy

I've just had all of the windows in our new place replaced with
Energy Star rated windows, and also had 2 doors replaced with Energy
Star rated ones. I'm going to peel all of the Energy Star stickers and
ratings stickers off of them and keep them in a folder as proof.

This year, I can't get anything out of this because it isn't a
refundable tax credit - it just decreases what you owe.

For 2010, however, I'm wondering how I might best put this tax credit
to work. Obviously, it is designed to balance out a tax owed, so I'm
wondering if there is something (useful, fun, whatever) I could do in
order to "owe" taxes this year, and balance those owed taxes out using
the energy tax credit.

The only thing I can think of so far is perhaps transferring some of
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immediate tax liability, since about 60% of her retirement funds are
still in a taxable account.

Anybody have any other ideas? Thanks!

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TOPIC: Ahben.com launches a Free eCommerce site!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/eb0b6b83b22ac588?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 6:40 am
From: ahben

Ahben.com changing how eCommerce works!
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Paypal payment>>>> Replica Jordan Shoes with original Box Cheap
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/22dbb752ba63ea49?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 10:36 am
From: bobharvey

On 19 Feb, 11:58, "john bently" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:

> Or would anyone know of some boots (preferably not too expensive) that are
> generally believed by many people to be a good buy? Thanks for any advice.

This is not so simple a question as you might think. I've taken to
wearing fabric-sided walking boots for general travel through airports
and cities, and even for walking to the shops. Most "fashion shoes"
are now so paedatrically illiterate that even wearing them to walk
down stairs is outside their design range.

Problem with walking boots is that, despite all the manufacturers
protestations that they know so much about feet, they don't usually
make them in different width fittings! I can't get my feet into
Brasher boots at all, but the pair of Contour boots I have (similar to
their Nevada but 5 years old) fit me like a glove and are so supremely
comfortable I am tempted to wear them everywhere. List price now is
about 75 quid, I paid less than 60 5 years ago in one of those
villages between Dartmoor and the A38.

I've just finished a 6 week trip round Europe, wearing WoodWorld
safety boots at work and a pair of Gore-tex Agile boots in the
evenings and at weekends. I had to go to a meeting wearing a pair of
Clark's leather brogues that cost over a hundred quid and I had a
blister on the ball of my feet after 10 minutes.

I buy my 'everyday' boots from a workwear shop in Stamford, trying on
what they have that will fit my high instep and wide forefoot, and
only rarely pay more than £35. I used to buy Hi-Tec boots from them
down the years, but they seem determined to go the fashion route now
and make footwear for youngsters who want to look like robocop. They
are narrower at the front too.

The soles on cheaper workwear-shop boots seem to survive walking on
paving and the steel decks of ships for twice as long as those on e.g.
Berghaus or karrimoor branded leather boots.

Don't overlook Doc Martens and the Airwear sole either. They were
originally designed as industrial footwear with a difference: they
were comfortable to wear and did not feel like a steel box on your
foot after 20 minutes.

I had one pair of very cheap boots with mock-leather uppers and a
padded ankle band of some synthetic rubbish that I wore for several
years. They had a good vibram sole, and I changed the foot liner for
an expensive one (all of two quid). Happening to be in the USA once I
wore them for 3 weeks walking round the Big Bend national park and
they were perfectly fine. Ten years later I still wore them for
gardening and walking the dogs, until the welt failed. I'm sure they
cost me less than a tenner in Grantham Market. Vibram and Goodyear
workshoe soles are worth looking out for, especially if long life is
important to you.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 10:43 am
From: bobharvey

On 23 Feb, 17:03, Christopher Loffredo <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> My non-Gore-Tex boots are certainly neither cheap nor low-end. In fact,
> full-leather non-Gore-Text boots usually cost as much or more than the
> ones with.

That would be my other bit of advice - keep a weather eye on prices.
I've seen a 3-to-one variation in the same boots from farm shop in
Lincolnshire to Barnard Castle hardware store to dedicated outdoor
hyperstore in manchester

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 11:02 am
From: SMS

bobharvey wrote:

> Problem with walking boots is that, despite all the manufacturers
> protestations that they know so much about feet, they don't usually
> make them in different width fittings!

Can't speak for the UK, but in the U.S. the higher end hiking boots are
generally available in two or three different widths. But if you're
getting a lower end boot then you're usually out of luck--they don't
want to manufacture SKUs that sell in low volumes if the product is cheap.

Ironically, two stores I've seen a wide selection of widths for shoes
(not boots) are the Sketchers store (not the other stores that sell
Sketchers) and Wal-Mart. I thought it was rather strange that a store
like Wal-Mart would have a better choice of wide shoes than most shoe
stores.

In any case, the bottom line remains the same when buying walking
(hiking) boots. First look for the necessary design elements which are:

1. GORE-TEX� lining (or other breathable waterproof membrane lining) for
breathable waterproofness (nearly all mid to high end boots have this).
NEVER buy hiking boots that lack a breathable waterproof membrane lining.

2. Vibram� outsole for best traction (cheaper boots may have a lower
grade outsole).

3. Stitchdown construction (not just glued) for durability (very rare
except on extreme high end).

4. Full-grain, all-leather upper (not split grain, not "nubuck") for
support and durability.

Once you find all the boots with the necessary design elements you begin
to narrow down your choices based on other factors like fit, aesthetics,
price, etc..

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 11:05 am
From: me@privacy.net

I want to start using Skype for calls from home and
hotspots and use prepaid cell only when out of
hotspots.

Anyone recommend a good handset for Skype use?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 11:29 am
From: "terrable"

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:47rio5hcd7pa3tn4n1t7pk33ji4sfm812n@4ax.com...
>I want to start using Skype for calls from home and
> hotspots and use prepaid cell only when out of
> hotspots.
>
> Anyone recommend a good handset for Skype use?

You will get much better responses asking about a "headset" for Skype.

I use an Adrenaline Multimedia headset that I got at a discount store for
$6.99. Works just fine for me.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 11:39 am
From: me@privacy.net

"terrable" <terrable@terrable.net> wrote:

>You will get much better responses asking about a "headset" for Skype.

not what I want

want a handset.... like a cell phone

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 11:43 am
From: "terrable"

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:26tio5p5pu8k3ti3kqm0qs6ecear5mfq0f@4ax.com...
> "terrable" <terrable@terrable.net> wrote:
>
>>You will get much better responses asking about a "headset" for Skype.
>
> not what I want
>
> want a handset.... like a cell phone

Sorry, my mistake. Modern technology has once again passed me by and left me
in the dustbin of history.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 27 2010 12:11 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote:

> I want to start using Skype for calls from home and
> hotspots and use prepaid cell only when out of hotspots.

I use voip instead.

> Anyone recommend a good handset for Skype use?

Some cellphones have built in voip support, like the Nokia N95 and N97 and E65

Very convenient to use, you can make a voip call when the
hotspot is available and just select a normal call when its not.

At home I use an ATA which allows you to use a normal cordless phone for voip calls.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_telephony_adapter

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 17 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Ring around the collar with the toilet - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/41110c983394b5e5?hl=en
* ?? Anybody buy tea online? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9c2a09fc153c4bf6?hl=en
* WAL-MART "Promises" Greenhouse Gas Emissions CUTS! In Five Years! You
Believe It? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b601ebce7519558f?hl=en
* Delivered unsafe item damaged me - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3012e11d0875cc7d?hl=en
* Get your coupons and discounts here - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/afffba162541777c?hl=en
* What's 1 way you enjoy being wasteful? - 8 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d28075f4c0b4eb2f?hl=en

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 1:14 pm
From: Al

On Feb 26, 12:34 pm, noel888 <harri85...@aol.com> wrote:
> Remember that old tv commercial about the ring around the collar of a
> shirt? Well i seem to have that problem with my commode...daily
> scrubbing does not get rid of a ring at its water level in the
> commode, not the tank. I've used comet, bleach and now CLR to no
> avail...the main problem is getting that water line to stay low to
> keep that area dry enough for the liquid cleaners to do their work...i
> guess. Any other suggestions on how to get rid of that ring that has
> worked for you? I cannot afford to buy another commode just for that
> ring problem..and yet its not something you want visitors to see
> either. What gets me is that commercial about CLR, and how thorough it
> is in cleaning rust and etc.

PS. CLR has never done anything good for me either.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 9:34 pm
From: "Annie Woughman"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ?? Anybody buy tea online?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9c2a09fc153c4bf6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 1:29 pm
From: Deidre Anderson

On Feb 7, 9:05 am, Dee <d...@d.d> wrote:
> Balvenieman <balvenie...@invalid.net> wrote innews:DsydnauSu4-hL_DWnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@earthlink.com:
>
> > Thanks for this! Even with shipping, I saved money on three
> > garden-variety China and Ceylon (Sri Lanka) black teas that
> > definitely are superior to what's in my local markets.
>
> You're welcome :-)
>
> Dee

you should try http://www.teaflection.com in the future! Its a great
online tea company!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WAL-MART "Promises" Greenhouse Gas Emissions CUTS! In Five Years! You
Believe It?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b601ebce7519558f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 1:59 pm
From: OvarianTumor

Yeah, Wal-Mart, whose employee health plan carries a $1,500 annual
deductible on top of unaffordably
high fees, and whose "401K" contributes a generous $5 per employee
biweekly. Wal-Mart, whose average worker doesn't make enough money to
support even half a family.

Wal-Mart can't lower gas emissions without the FULL cooperation of
its suppliers, without which Wal-Mart can't exist!

Who is Wal-Mart trying to kid?

----------------------
"Wal-Mart promises to lower greenhouse gas emissions by 2015"

By Ylan Q. Mui
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 26, 2010; A19

Wal-Mart vowed on Thursday to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20
million metric tons across its vast network of suppliers and stores by
2015, part of the retailer's ongoing efforts to become more
environmentally friendly.

Wal-Mart said the reductions would more than offset the anticipated
growth in its carbon footprint over the same period and was equivalent
to taking 3.8 million cars off the road for a year. The cuts would be
made throughout its supply chain, from manufacturing to transportation
to the sales floor.

"We will be efficient," Wal-Mart Chief Executive Mike Duke said in a
news conference Thursday. "We will be the leader in retailing, because
we will be the first to look at the whole supply chain."

The announcement was the latest initiative in the retailer's quest to
transform itself into a more sustainable company. When Wal-Mart
promised five years ago to create zero waste, use only renewable
energy and sell more environmentally friendly products, the call to
action rippled across its 8,400 stores worldwide and more than 100,000
suppliers. Company executives said that they hoped this would have a
similar effect.

"I think this is real leadership," said Fred Krupp, president of the
Environmental Defense Fund, a nonprofit organization that worked with
Wal-Mart on the project. "Wal-Mart is looking at the big picture."

Wal-Mart said it would initially focus on several hundred suppliers
and products with the highest carbon footprints. Matt Kistler, senior
vice president of sustainability, said that includes reducing
transportation emissions and waste for fresh foods and could mean
developing new clothing materials that require less energy to clean.
The company also announced changes to DVD packages that used less
plastic and made them weigh less.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/25/AR2010022505453.html

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 2:04 pm
From: Kyle Schwitters

BUT "GOING GREEN" IS GOING BUST!

================
"The green jobs myth"

By Sunil Sharan
Friday, February 26, 2010; A23

"Green jobs" have become a central underpinning of the Obama
administration's rationale to promote clean energy. But how valid is
the assumption that a "clean-energy" economy will generate enough jobs
to mitigate today's high level of unemployment -- new jobless claims
were up 22,000 this week -- and to meet the needs of future
generations? A green economy would have to spout jobs in the millions
to do both. The facts challenge the prevailing thinking among some
policymakers and officials that green jobs are a principal reason for
transforming the economy.

Let's consider just one clean-energy sector, the smart grid, for its
job-creation potential. The Obama administration allocated a little
more than $4 billion in funding from the American Recovery and
Reinvestment Act to the smart grid, an unprecedented amount for a
hitherto-neglected but critical piece of our national infrastructure.
Much of this is to be spent installing close to 20 million "smart
meters" over the next five years. Smart meters are digital versions of
the spinning electric meters that are omnipresent nationwide. Whereas
spinning meters have changed little in more than a century and must be
read by workers, smart meters automatically transmit electricity
consumption data to a utility. Virtually eliminating human
intervention, smart meters promise more accurate measurement of
electricity usage as well as increasingly efficient management of
energy production resources.

Nearly 40 million smart meters have been deployed worldwide, mostly in
Europe. Jobs created in this industry can be broadly classified into
four categories: installation, manufacturing, research and
development, and IT services.

First, installation: It typically takes a team of two certified
electricians half an hour to replace the old, spinning meter. In one
day, two people can install about 15 new meters, or about 5,000 in a
year. Were a million smart meters to be installed in a year, 400
installation jobs would be created. It follows that the planned U.S.
deployment of 20 million smart meters over five years, or 4 million
per year, should create 1,600 installation jobs. Unless more meters
are added to the annual deployment schedule, this workforce of 1,600
should cover installation needs for the next five years.

Although a surge of new digital meters will be produced, the
manufacturing process is highly automated. And with much of it
accomplished overseas, net creation in domestic manufacturing jobs is
expected to be only in the hundreds. In R&D and IT services, high-
paying white-collar jobs are on the horizon, but as with
manufacturing, the number of jobs created is forecast to be in the
hundreds or low thousands.

Now let's consider job losses. It takes one worker today roughly 15
minutes to read a single meter. So in a day, a meter reader can scan
about 30 meters, or about 700 meters a month. Meters are typically
read once a month, making it the base period to calculate meter-
reading jobs. Reading a million meters every month engages about 1,400
personnel. In five years, 20 million manually read meters are expected
to disappear, taking with them some 28,000 meter-reading jobs.

In other words, instead of creating jobs, smart metering will probably
result in net job destruction. This should not be surprising because
the main method of making the electrical grid "smart" is by automating
its functions. Automation by definition obviates the need for people.

In other "clean-energy" sectors such as solar and wind energy, jobs
are predicted to emerge in the same broad categories of installation,
manufacturing, R&D and IT services, but the near-term expected levels
of investment in and adoption of these renewable sources of energy
mean that net job creation should top out in the tens of thousands, as
opposed to the desired hundreds of thousands or more. Electric
vehicles represent another promising green sector, but even if the
vehicles were rolled out in substantive quantities, jobs would be
created mainly in research and development and infrastructure support,
and there, too, only in the hundreds or maybe even thousands.
Manufacturing jobs would grow only incrementally since electric
vehicle production will for the most part cannibalize that of gasoline-
powered cars.

For the purpose of creating jobs, then, a "clean-energy economy" will
not offer a panacea. This does not necessarily mean that America
should not become green to alleviate climate change, to kick its
addiction to foreign oil or to use energy sources more efficiently.
But those who take great pains to tout the "job-creation potential" of
the green space might just end up inducing labor pains all around.

[The writer, a director of the Smart Grid Initiative at GE from 2008
to 2009, has worked in the clean-energy industry for a decade. The
views expressed are his own. He can be reached at
sunil_sharan@yahoo.com.]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/25/AR2010022503945.html

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 4:16 pm
From: Ken Marino

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:59:57 -0800, OvarianTumor wrote:

> Yeah, Wal-Mart, whose employee health plan carries a $1,500 annual
> deductible on top of unaffordably
> high fees, and whose "401K" contributes a generous $5 per employee
> biweekly. Wal-Mart, whose average worker doesn't make enough money to
> support even half a family.
>
> Wal-Mart can't lower gas emissions without the FULL cooperation of its
> suppliers, without which Wal-Mart can't exist!
>
> Who is Wal-Mart trying to kid?
>
> ----------------------
> "Wal-Mart promises to lower greenhouse gas emissions by 2015"
>
> By Ylan Q. Mui
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Friday, February 26, 2010; A19
>
>
>
>
> Wal-Mart vowed on Thursday to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 20
> million metric tons across its vast network of suppliers and stores by
> 2015, part of the retailer's ongoing efforts to become more
> environmentally friendly.
>
> Wal-Mart said the reductions would more than offset the anticipated
> growth in its carbon footprint over the same period and was equivalent
> to taking 3.8 million cars off the road for a year. The cuts would be
> made throughout its supply chain, from manufacturing to transportation
> to the sales floor.
>
> "We will be efficient," Wal-Mart Chief Executive Mike Duke said in a
> news conference Thursday. "We will be the leader in retailing, because
> we will be the first to look at the whole supply chain."
>
> The announcement was the latest initiative in the retailer's quest to
> transform itself into a more sustainable company. When Wal-Mart promised
> five years ago to create zero waste, use only renewable energy and sell
> more environmentally friendly products, the call to action rippled
> across its 8,400 stores worldwide and more than 100,000 suppliers.
> Company executives said that they hoped this would have a similar
> effect.
>
> "I think this is real leadership," said Fred Krupp, president of the
> Environmental Defense Fund, a nonprofit organization that worked with
> Wal-Mart on the project. "Wal-Mart is looking at the big picture."
>
> Wal-Mart said it would initially focus on several hundred suppliers and
> products with the highest carbon footprints. Matt Kistler, senior vice
> president of sustainability, said that includes reducing transportation
> emissions and waste for fresh foods and could mean developing new
> clothing materials that require less energy to clean. The company also
> announced changes to DVD packages that used less plastic and made them
> weigh less.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/25/
AR2010022505453.html

Such a typical response from an AGW whacko. Even when a company decides
it is going to do all it can to reduce it's carbon footprint, all you can
do is complain.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Delivered unsafe item damaged me
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3012e11d0875cc7d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 2:49 pm
From: ivor bigun

On 21 Feb, 14:29, "john hamilton" <bluest...@mail.invalid> wrote:
> Last friday I took delivery at home of pressed steel kitchen gas hob from a
> well known national department store.
>
> After taking the top of the packaging off it, it then had to be lifted out.
> There was nothing to get hold of apart from the gas tap knobs, but I did not
> want to pull it out using these.
>
> So I put my fingers underneath and lifted, but then received three deep cuts
> along the back of three fingers.
>
> Being pressed steel the edges were razor sharp because thats how metal is if
> its been stamped and not finished off along the sheared edge with a file.
>
> This is annoying because this situation is likely to happen time and time
> again to other people. Because how I lifted it out is probably the way
> everybody else would try to lift it out.
>
> How can I be sure of getting the manufacturers to act to stop this happening
> again. The company is an Italian one, but I purchased it from a U.K. store.
>
> My collegue suggests I should request £100 to be sent to a charity, since
> having to pay money might make them actually make them take notice and then
> carry out the extra work on these units to stop this repeatedly happening.
>
> Thanks for any advice on how best to get them to make a charitable
> contribution.

Should always wear gloves when handling anything metal im sure the
packaging would have even stated this.. common sense eh !!!!!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get your coupons and discounts here
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/afffba162541777c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 3:25 pm
From: wyattm

What could be better than a membership program where the savings is a
whole lot more than the membership? Plus you have a great opportunity
to make money and a lot of it. It's the business that's sweeping the
nation. Hundreds are enrolling everyday. Don't delay...visit
http://wyattm.myworldresults.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 4:12 pm
From: "h"

"wyattm" <mike32ar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:db5ffa54-e57b-447d-9fb4-8ea2044ceeee@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> What could be better than a membership program where the savings is a
> whole lot more than the membership?

Not having assholes spam this group, that's what's better. PLONK!

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 3:41 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

me@privacy.net wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> I basically buy whatever I feel like technology wise,
>> have the lights and heaters etc all fully automated,

> what hardware are you using to automate lights and heaters?

X10

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 4:14 pm
From: "h"

<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:bo3go5tjnrdfaldkqqqrlu60vfd8m6a5k8@4ax.com...
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I basically buy whatever I feel like technology wise, have the lights
>>and heaters etc all fully automated,
>
> what hardware are you using to automate lights and
> heaters?

Umm, that's Rod Speed, so don't believe a thing it says, just plonk it as
the rest of us have done.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 4:44 pm
From: "The Henchman"

"Jim...(8-| " <jim@home.com> wrote in message
news:c9hfo558g7h58pssv5g01pklvnn00do9rb@4ax.com...
.
>
> It has changed our viewing and now we avoid SD as much as feasible
> including waiting for sports events to be replayed by them in HD
> rather than endure the local stations commercial ridden blur.
> Our week would comprise 100+ hours of TV viewing in concert with our
> internet usage so I can't see any point being stingy with TV. Although
> our 101 cm Samsung whilst being a quality unit when we bought it 18
> months ago may have been better served being a bit bigger.

You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
nesscessacity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
still a luxury?

To me television is a luxury, although it is useful from time to time: the
cooking shows and weather reports. What about Internet? And since many
people are now combining internet and television into one bill, that becomes
clouded to.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 4:51 pm
From: "Jim...(8-| "

On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:41:58 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>me@privacy.net wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> I basically buy whatever I feel like technology wise,
>>> have the lights and heaters etc all fully automated,
>
>> what hardware are you using to automate lights and heaters?
>
>X10
>
It doesn't sound like you have reverse cycle A/C? The heat from that
is splendid for a warm up job when cold and I think rather rends olde
style heaters past it.
Not a difficult job to fit a split system A/C either and they can be
had at a pretty reasonable price now.

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 5:04 pm
From: "h"

"The Henchman" <yup@yup.org> wrote in message
news:hm9pt1$9e3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> "Jim...(8-| " <jim@home.com> wrote in message
> news:c9hfo558g7h58pssv5g01pklvnn00do9rb@4ax.com...
> .
>>
>> It has changed our viewing and now we avoid SD as much as feasible
>> including waiting for sports events to be replayed by them in HD
>> rather than endure the local stations commercial ridden blur.
>> Our week would comprise 100+ hours of TV viewing in concert with our
>> internet usage so I can't see any point being stingy with TV. Although
>> our 101 cm Samsung whilst being a quality unit when we bought it 18
>> months ago may have been better served being a bit bigger.
>
>
> You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
> nesscessacity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
> still a luxury?
>
> To me television is a luxury, although it is useful from time to time:
> the cooking shows and weather reports. What about Internet? And since
> many people are now combining internet and television into one bill, that
> becomes clouded to.

Depends. I'm self-employed and my website is my sole source of income. I
consider roadrunner to be a necessity, and it's a deductible business
expense Without it I would be spending many extra hours dealing with tech
stuff instead of making my products. When I switched to cable phone my
business started saving about $100/month. When I factored in all the
business savings I realized that adding in a few premium channels was
essentially free, since I no longer go to the movies at all anymore.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 5:35 pm
From: "Lou"

"The Henchman" <yup@yup.org> wrote in message
news:hm9pt1$9e3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> "Jim...(8-| " <jim@home.com> wrote in message
> news:c9hfo558g7h58pssv5g01pklvnn00do9rb@4ax.com...
> .
> >
> > It has changed our viewing and now we avoid SD as much as feasible
> > including waiting for sports events to be replayed by them in HD
> > rather than endure the local stations commercial ridden blur.
> > Our week would comprise 100+ hours of TV viewing in concert with our
> > internet usage so I can't see any point being stingy with TV. Although
> > our 101 cm Samsung whilst being a quality unit when we bought it 18
> > months ago may have been better served being a bit bigger.
>
>
> You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
> nesscessacity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
> still a luxury?

For my wife and me, I'd say it's just over the line into the necescity
class. With it, my wife can work from home at least one day a week, every
week. Her daily commute costs about $25 for gas and tolls, so over the
course of a year, working from home saves around $1,200. Pretty much pays
for itself. With dial up, she'd have to go into the office every workday.
On an irregular basis, I use it to work from home as well. My daily
commuting expenses run only around $7, so though it's not much money, it's a
little frosting on the cake.

> To me television is a luxury, although it is useful from time to time:
the
> cooking shows and weather reports. What about Internet? And since many
> people are now combining internet and television into one bill, that
becomes
> clouded to.

If I had to pick, I'd give up cable for TV before I'd give up high speed
internet. You could still fish local TV out of the air. And there's a
wealth of video diversions available over the internet.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 8:10 pm
From: Michael Black

On Fri, 26 Feb 2010, The Henchman wrote:

>
>
> "Jim...(8-| " <jim@home.com> wrote in message
> news:c9hfo558g7h58pssv5g01pklvnn00do9rb@4ax.com...
> .
>>
>> It has changed our viewing and now we avoid SD as much as feasible
>> including waiting for sports events to be replayed by them in HD
>> rather than endure the local stations commercial ridden blur.
>> Our week would comprise 100+ hours of TV viewing in concert with our
>> internet usage so I can't see any point being stingy with TV. Although
>> our 101 cm Samsung whilst being a quality unit when we bought it 18
>> months ago may have been better served being a bit bigger.
>
>
> You made me think of a good point: Is high speed internet now a
> nesscessacity in the home, like a washing machine or telephone, or is it
> still a luxury?
>
> To me television is a luxury, although it is useful from time to time: the
> cooking shows and weather reports. What about Internet? And since many
> people are now combining internet and television into one bill, that becomes
> clouded to.
>
Telephones aren't a necessity, one could live with mail. That virtually
everyone has a telephone is mostly the way society has decided.

The internet is probably that way, you can do a lot with it so most
people aren't willing to abandon it.

But high speed? What you'll probably find is that most of what people use
high speed for doesn't rate as a necessity. If TV isn't a necessity, then
getting it over the internet sure isn't. Sure you can download songs
faster if you have high speed internet, but many wouldn't consider buying
music (or stealing music) a necessity. A lot of things that make high
speed internet "valuable" is a result of things shifting to the end user.
Great, some independent movie maker can distribute their movie "for free"
but it relies on the end user paying for high speed internet.

Michael

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 26 2010 8:38 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Jim...(8-| wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> me@privacy.net wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>>>> I basically buy whatever I feel like technology wise,
>>>> have the lights and heaters etc all fully automated,

>>> what hardware are you using to automate lights and heaters?

>> X10

> It doesn't sound like you have reverse cycle A/C?

Nope, I use a swamp cooler in summer, vastly better value.

I use electric heat, and have just lately changed over to using a
heated throw rather than keeping the entire room nice and warm.

The house is passive solar and that works fine unless its a very overcast heavy cloud day.

> The heat from that is splendid for a warm up job when
> cold and I think rather rends olde style heaters past it.

It doesnt work that well here, its too cold outside when I need the
heat most, first thing in the morning before the sun comes up and
I get the advantage of the passive solar sitting in the sun. Its too
cold outside for reverse cycle to work well here, and the main
room is very lossy with vast amounts of north facing glass.

It wouldnt be economical to replace that glass with very high tech
tripple glazing now, it makes a lot more sense to use an electric
storage heater that gets charged overnight to warm the room up
quickly. I get up very early indeed, often 4am or earlier and thats
well before the sun comes up. So it makes more sense to use
a heated throw and then turn that off when I'm sitting in the sun later.

> Not a difficult job to fit a split system A/C either and
> they can be had at a pretty reasonable price now.

Sure, but the problem is that the outside temps are so low when
I want it to provide heat that they dont work that well in my situation.
Makes more sense to get the quick boost of the air temp using
stored electrical heat and use the heated throw until the sun comes up.

Even in the evening after the sun has gone down, a heated throw
costs a hell of a lot less to run than any reverse cycle system does.

Same for the days with no sun too.

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