Wednesday, July 27, 2011

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 6 new messages in 3 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Beverly Hillbillies go frugal ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4b85c3ce63115f0e?hl=en
* AC cord bundled up bursts into flame - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1af5ca2f7951040e?hl=en
* Cell battery dealer - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/87334d35338352b0?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Beverly Hillbillies go frugal ?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/4b85c3ce63115f0e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 25 2011 3:10 pm
From: Michael Black


On Mon, 25 Jul 2011, The Expert wrote:

> seems today's episode finds the Clampets broke!
> so, granny chases off the Pool guy because the chlorine he's adding in
> killing the fish they're trying to raise in the pool.
> then they ditch the phone, for where they come from it was enough to
> yell over to the neighbors.
> and Jethro can do w/o shoes because CA has bare foot weather all the
> time.
> we can all learn from TV,
> if you're paying attention.

Huh?

They were always frugal, because despite finding oil and getting money for
their land, they never changed. Part of the joke was they never seemed to
realize they were rich.

So they used the "cement pond" for things other than swimming. Indeed,
Granny tended to do her laundry out there, maybe even some cooking. They
kept their old truck, they kept their old clothes, they lived the same
way. I seem to recall Jed going out hunting in the Hollywood Hills.

But they probably weren't frugal, since they had no sense of being rich.
They acted like they had no money.

Michael


==============================================================================
TOPIC: AC cord bundled up bursts into flame
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1af5ca2f7951040e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 26 2011 5:32 am
From: Andrew Usher <03391618@rambler.ru>


Dustbin wrote:

> It strikes me that any cable that gets warm in 'normal' use is insufficient.
>
> If the cross-sectional area is adequate the resistance will be low
> enough and the heat dissipation will be negligible. I would be very
> unhappy if any cable of mine grew warm to the touch even when bundled
> tightly as indicated in the video.

Rod Speed is just quibbling of what 'warm' means. People do
bundle up cables like that, and the cable in the video was
clearly not up to the current it was carrying. But on the other
hand I know that line cords can get warm in use; it's only a
matter of how warm is acceptable.

> You may consider me overly cautious but I would say it is easy to leave
> something switched on and come home to a burned down house... etc.

Certainly.

Andrew Usher

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cell battery dealer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/87334d35338352b0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 26 2011 11:11 am
From: KenK


Anyone know of a cell phone battery dealer with low shipping and handling
charges? SW US to be closer to me might help.

TIA


--
"Experience is something you don't get until
just after you need it." Steven Wright

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 26 2011 11:20 am
From: James


On Jul 26, 2:11 pm, KenK <inva...@invalid.com> wrote:
> Anyone know of a cell phone battery dealer with low shipping and handling
> charges? SW US to be closer to me might help.
>
> TIA

1. Get the name of the battery off of the label.
2. Type into Google
3. pick out the responses that look like commercial sites.

I did this for an office alarm battery, and saved a fortune over
buying from our alarm provider.


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 26 2011 12:37 pm
From: "Rod Speed"


KenK wrote:

> Anyone know of a cell phone battery dealer with low shipping and handling charges?

Ebay.

> SW US to be closer to me might help.


== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 26 2011 2:27 pm
From: "John Weiss"


KenK wrote:

> Anyone know of a cell phone battery dealer with low shipping and
> handling charges? SW US to be closer to me might help.
>
> TIA

Amazon.


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Sunday, July 17, 2011

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 12 new messages in 4 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Acer computer for $200 at WALMART - 8 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/62a95b83acaa1d71?hl=en
* 90% of the evil/dumb laws passed in the Western world are voted upon by the
Christian/elderly segment of the population - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1302370cefadc98a?hl=en
* All commands & shortcuts - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9a3bfc7e3ebe8b52?hl=en
* 6 people praying and one pushing a cart... may make it move - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b7bad8117cbd0ad5?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Acer computer for $200 at WALMART
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/62a95b83acaa1d71?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 7:23 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"


In article <ivq1t3$9qm$1@dont-email.me>, Forrest Hodge <fo19@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> >>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around
> >
> >> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.
> >
> > Wrong, as always.
>
> Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly better
> performance than modern integrated solutions.

asking rod for proof is like asking a skunk to sell perfume


== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 11:28 am
From: "Bob F"


Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:
> In article <98bc30F4poU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob F wrote
>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>> aesthete8 wrote
>>
>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>>
>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card. One can't help
>>>> but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered
>>>> POS.
>>
>>> All you need to add is a keyboard, monitor, mouse, memory, and a
>>> hard drive.
>>
>> Or you already have those.
>
> pity about those that don't

The $200 Walmart one I found needed a laptop HD, and didn''t say what memory
modules.


== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 11:32 am
From: "Rod Speed"


Forrest Hodge wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>> aesthete8 wrote

>>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

>>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.

>>>> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
>>>> included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.

>>>>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made,
>>>>> underpowered POS.

>>>> More fool you.

>>>> Only gamers need anything like that.

>>> Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood.

>> Some do, some dont.

> More do than don't.

So your original is a lie.

>> Hardly anyone else spends a cent on better video than what is on the motherboard.

> Doubtful.

Fact. There is a reason so many motherboards have build in video now.

In spades with the cheaper systems.

> Nvidia took in over 3.2 billion USD last year alone.

Irrelevant to that particular point.

>>> The more demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires multiple mid tier video cards to get a
>>> decent frame rate with the eye candy turn on.

>> Pity about the less demanding.

> It's called progress.

Its actually called mindless bullshit.

> If it weren't for the more demanding gamings, we'd still be playing pong.

Irrelevant to that stupid line about what that particular steaming turd requires video card wise.

>>>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around

>>> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.

>> Wrong, as always.

> Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly better performance than modern integrated solutions.

>>>> and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too

>>> Those aren't discrete cards chief,

>> Duh, indian.

>>> they are integrated onto the mobo or in some cases the CPU itself.

>> Pity that hardly anyone but gamers need anything better than that.

> Ever try to play a 1080p video on even a 3 or 4 year old computer sporting an Intel GMA?

We arent talking about obsolete computers.

>>>> More fool you.

>>> Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.

>> Or you are a fool. And the typical user will find that the
>> video in that $200 Asus is fine unless they are a gamer.

> Sure about that?

Yep.

> The $200 Asus has a single core Intel Atom CPU, It will struggle mightily with Windows 7.

Another pig ignorant lie.

> It comes with Linux but the typical user probably won't want to deal with it.

Irrelevant.


== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 11:34 am
From: "Rod Speed"


Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Bob F wrote
>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>> aesthete8 wrote

>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card. One can't help but
>>>> think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.

>>> All you need to add is a keyboard, monitor, mouse, memory, and a hard drive.

>> Or you already have those.

> pity about those that don't

They can get them for peanuts or free at yard sales etc.


== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 2:35 pm
From: Forrest Hodge


On 7/16/2011 2:32 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Forrest Hodge wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>>> aesthete8 wrote
>
>>>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>
>>>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.
>
>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
>>>>> included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.
>
>>>>>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made,
>>>>>> underpowered POS.
>
>>>>> More fool you.
>
>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that.
>
>>>> Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood.
>
>>> Some do, some dont.
>
>> More do than don't.
>
> So your original is a lie.

Not at all, a $200 buys a mid-range discrete video card, like a Radeon
6870 or a GeForce 560 ti. Perfectly serviceable video cards that will
run most games or 3D apps decently, but a gamer will likely have a more
powerful card or cards in his/her gaming rig. Go look at just about any
computer hardware enthusiast message forum.

>
>>> Hardly anyone else spends a cent on better video than what is on the motherboard.
>
>> Doubtful.
>
> Fact. There is a reason so many motherboards have build in video now.
>
> In spades with the cheaper systems.
>
>> Nvidia took in over 3.2 billion USD last year alone.
>
> Irrelevant to that particular point.

Only irrelevant when you ignore the fact that Nvidia's primary business
is discrete video cards.

>
>>>> The more demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires multiple mid tier video cards to get a
>>>> decent frame rate with the eye candy turn on.
>
>>> Pity about the less demanding.
>
>> It's called progress.
>
> Its actually called mindless bullshit.

Your opinion

>
>> If it weren't for the more demanding gamings, we'd still be playing pong.
>
> Irrelevant to that stupid line about what that particular steaming turd requires video card wise.

Again, your opinion.
>
>>>>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around
>
>>>> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.
>
>>> Wrong, as always.
>
>> Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly better performance than modern integrated solutions.
>

I'm still waiting
>>>>> and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too

>
>>>> Those aren't discrete cards chief,
>
>>> Duh, indian.
>
>>>> they are integrated onto the mobo or in some cases the CPU itself.
>
>>> Pity that hardly anyone but gamers need anything better than that.
>
>> Ever try to play a 1080p video on even a 3 or 4 year old computer sporting an Intel GMA?
>
> We arent talking about obsolete computers.

Apparently we are, as the specs of this vaunted $200 are more in line
with a 3 or 4 year old computer. You'd know that if you bothered to look
it up.
>
>>>>> More fool you.
>
>>>> Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.
>
>>> Or you are a fool. And the typical user will find that the
>>> video in that $200 Asus is fine unless they are a gamer.
>
>> Sure about that?
>
> Yep.
>
>> The $200 Asus has a single core Intel Atom CPU, It will struggle mightily with Windows 7.
>
> Another pig ignorant lie.

Prove me wrong. spewing your catchphrases doesn't lend credence your
argument.

>
>> It comes with Linux but the typical user probably won't want to deal with it.
>
> Irrelevant.

But somehow my argument that the $200 computer isn't a good unit is also
irrelevant. So your saying not having the OS that the vast majority of
the population is familiar with is somehow less of an inconvenience that
having substandard hardware specs?


== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 4:49 pm
From: "Rod Speed"


Forrest Hodge wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>>>> aesthete8 wrote

>>>>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

>>>>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.

>>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of
>>>>>> perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those included
>>>>>> with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.

>>>>>>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply
>>>>>>> made, underpowered POS.

>>>>>> More fool you.

>>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that.

>>>>> Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood.

>>>> Some do, some dont.

>>> More do than don't.

>> So your original is a lie.

> Not at all,

Everyone can see for themselves that it is.

> a $200 buys a mid-range discrete video card, like a Radeon
> 6870 or a GeForce 560 ti. Perfectly serviceable video cards that will run most games or 3D apps decently,

Irrelevant to your lie about what gamers have.

> but a gamer will likely have a more powerful card or cards in his/her gaming rig.

More likely is nothing like your original lie.

> Go look at just about any computer hardware enthusiast message forum.

Irrelevant to your lie about what gamers have.

>>>> Hardly anyone else spends a cent on better video than what is on
>>>> the motherboard.

>>> Doubtful.

>> Fact. There is a reason so many motherboards have build in video now.

>> In spades with the cheaper systems.

>>> Nvidia took in over 3.2 billion USD last year alone.

>> Irrelevant to that particular point.

> Only irrelevant when you ignore the fact that Nvidia's primary business is discrete video cards.

Says nothing useful what so ever about how many dont
bother with other than whats built in to the motherboard.

>>>>> The more demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires multiple mid tier video cards to get
>>>>> a decent frame rate with the eye candy turn on.

>>>> Pity about the less demanding.

>>> It's called progress.

>> Its actually called mindless bullshit.

> Your opinion

Nope, fact.

>>> If it weren't for the more demanding gamings, we'd still be playing pong.

>> Irrelevant to that stupid line about what that particular steaming turd requires video card wise.

> Again, your opinion.

Nope, fact, again.

>>>>>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around

>>>>> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.

>>>> Wrong, as always.

>>> Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly
>>> better performance than modern integrated solutions.

> I'm still waiting

Try holding your breath while you wait, particularly with used cards.

>>>>>> and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too

>>>>> Those aren't discrete cards chief,

>>>> Duh, indian.

>>>>> they are integrated onto the mobo or in some cases the CPU itself.

>>>> Pity that hardly anyone but gamers need anything better than that.

>>> Ever try to play a 1080p video on even a 3 or 4 year old computer sporting an Intel GMA?

>> We arent talking about obsolete computers.

> Apparently we are,

Another lie.

> as the specs of this vaunted $200 are more in line with a 3 or 4 year old computer.

Another lie.

> You'd know that if you bothered to look it up.

Did look it up, fool..

>>>>>> More fool you.

>>>>> Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.

>>>> Or you are a fool. And the typical user will find that the
>>>> video in that $200 Asus is fine unless they are a gamer.

>>> Sure about that?

>> Yep.

>>> The $200 Asus has a single core Intel Atom CPU, It will struggle mightily with Windows 7.

>> Another pig ignorant lie.

> Prove me wrong.

YOU spewed the lie.

YOU get to do the proving.

THATS how it works.

AND you dont even know that they even want to run Win7 on it ANYWAY.

> spewing your catchphrases doesn't lend credence your argument.

Your lies in spades.

>>> It comes with Linux but the typical user probably won't want to deal with it.

>> Irrelevant.

> But somehow my argument that the $200 computer isn't a good unit

Everyone can see for themselves that that is nothing like your original lie.

> is also irrelevant.

Everyone can see for themselves that I never said that.

> So your saying not having the OS that the vast majority of the population is familiar with is somehow less of an
> inconvenience that having substandard hardware specs?

Nope,. not saying anything like that. It wont be the typical
user that buys that system anyway given that it doesnt
even have a hard drive, keyboard monitor etc included.


== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 6:51 pm
From: Forrest Hodge


On 7/16/2011 7:49 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Forrest Hodge wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>>>>> aesthete8 wrote
>
>>>>>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>
>>>>>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.
>
>>>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of
>>>>>>> perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those included
>>>>>>> with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.
>
>>>>>>>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply
>>>>>>>> made, underpowered POS.
>
>>>>>>> More fool you.
>
>>>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that.
>
>>>>>> Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood.
>
>>>>> Some do, some dont.
>
>>>> More do than don't.
>
>>> So your original is a lie.
>
>> Not at all,
>
> Everyone can see for themselves that it is.
>
>> a $200 buys a mid-range discrete video card, like a Radeon
>> 6870 or a GeForce 560 ti. Perfectly serviceable video cards that will run most games or 3D apps decently,
>
> Irrelevant to your lie about what gamers have.
>
>> but a gamer will likely have a more powerful card or cards in his/her gaming rig.
>
> More likely is nothing like your original lie.
>
>> Go look at just about any computer hardware enthusiast message forum.
>
> Irrelevant to your lie about what gamers have.

Incorrect, it's more telling to what you think gamers have. You aren't a
gamer, you don't know. I am a gamer, I do know.

>>>>> Hardly anyone else spends a cent on better video than what is on
>>>>> the motherboard.
>
>>>> Doubtful.
>
>>> Fact. There is a reason so many motherboards have build in video now.

>
>>> In spades with the cheaper systems.

I'm not doubting that the majority of computers have integrated video
adapters, my argument is that compared to discrete video cards,
integrated video is inferior in terms of performance.
>
>>>> Nvidia took in over 3.2 billion USD last year alone.
>
>>> Irrelevant to that particular point.
>
>> Only irrelevant when you ignore the fact that Nvidia's primary business is discrete video cards.
>
> Says nothing useful what so ever about how many dont
> bother with other than whats built in to the motherboard.

Yeah it does, if integrated video was enough for everybody then Nvidia
wouldn't be selling billions of dollars worth of discrete video cards
every yeah.

>
>>>>>> The more demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires multiple mid tier video cards to get
>>>>>> a decent frame rate with the eye candy turn on.
>
>>>>> Pity about the less demanding.
>
>>>> It's called progress.
>
>>> Its actually called mindless bullshit.
>
>> Your opinion
>
> Nope, fact.
>
>>>> If it weren't for the more demanding gamings, we'd still be playing pong.
>
>>> Irrelevant to that stupid line about what that particular steaming turd requires video card wise.
>
>> Again, your opinion.
>
> Nope, fact, again.

Not that you we be able to do so, but please elaborate on this "fact".
>
>>>>>>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around
>
>>>>>> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.
>
>>>>> Wrong, as always.
>
>>>> Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly
>>>> better performance than modern integrated solutions.
>
>> I'm still waiting
>
> Try holding your breath while you wait, particularly with used cards.

>
>>>>>>> and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too
>
>>>>>> Those aren't discrete cards chief,
>
>>>>> Duh, indian.
>
>>>>>> they are integrated onto the mobo or in some cases the CPU itself.
>
>>>>> Pity that hardly anyone but gamers need anything better than that.
>
>>>> Ever try to play a 1080p video on even a 3 or 4 year old computer sporting an Intel GMA?
>
>>> We arent talking about obsolete computers.
>
>> Apparently we are,
>
> Another lie.
>
>> as the specs of this vaunted $200 are more in line with a 3 or 4 year old computer.
>
> Another lie.
>
>> You'd know that if you bothered to look it up.
>
> Did look it up, fool..
>
>>>>>>> More fool you.
>
>>>>>> Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.
>
>>>>> Or you are a fool. And the typical user will find that the
>>>>> video in that $200 Asus is fine unless they are a gamer.
>
>>>> Sure about that?
>
>>> Yep.
>
>>>> The $200 Asus has a single core Intel Atom CPU, It will struggle mightily with Windows 7.
>
>>> Another pig ignorant lie.
>
>> Prove me wrong.
>
> YOU spewed the lie.
>
> YOU get to do the proving.
>
> THATS how it works.

Fair enough. Behold, the $200 Acer
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acer-PS.VBG0C.001/15935450

Now if you'll kindly show me the $20 video card that is faster than the
current crop of integrated video adapters....

>
> AND you dont even know that they even want to run Win7 on it ANYWAY.

The won't be using Win9x, no driver support, They might try WinXP but
support for that will end in two years or so, and with that slow a CPU,
it performance won't exactly be great with the current version of WinXP
anyway. Most users won't use Linux, so where does that leave us?
>
>> spewing your catchphrases doesn't lend credence your argument.
>
> Your lies in spades.

Only lies in your eyes

>
>>>> It comes with Linux but the typical user probably won't want to deal with it.
>
>>> Irrelevant.
>
>> But somehow my argument that the $200 computer isn't a good unit
>
> Everyone can see for themselves that that is nothing like your original lie.
>
>> is also irrelevant.
>
> Everyone can see for themselves that I never said that.
>
>> So your saying not having the OS that the vast majority of the population is familiar with is somehow less of an
>> inconvenience that having substandard hardware specs?
>
> Nope,. not saying anything like that. It wont be the typical
> user that buys that system anyway given that it doesnt
> even have a hard drive, keyboard monitor etc included.

I does have a hard drive, keyboard and mouse. If you knew what computer
you were talking about from the very beginning, you'd know that. Are you
conceding that this computer wouldn't be a great purchase for the
average user?

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 7:54 pm
From: "Rod Speed"


Forrest Hodge wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>>>>>>> aesthete8 wrote

>>>>>>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

>>>>>>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.

>>>>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
>>>>>>>> included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.

>>>>>>>>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply
>>>>>>>>> made, underpowered POS.

>>>>>>>> More fool you.

>>>>>>>> Only gamers need anything like that.

>>>>>>> Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood.

>>>>>> Some do, some dont.

>>>>> More do than don't.

>>>> So your original is a lie.

>>> Not at all,

>> Everyone can see for themselves that it is.

>>> a $200 buys a mid-range discrete video card, like a Radeon
>>> 6870 or a GeForce 560 ti. Perfectly serviceable video cards that will run most games or 3D apps decently,

>> Irrelevant to your lie about what gamers have.

>>> but a gamer will likely have a more powerful card or cards in
>>> his/her gaming rig.

>> More likely is nothing like your original lie.

>>> Go look at just about any computer hardware enthusiast message forum.

>> Irrelevant to your lie about what gamers have.

> Incorrect,

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, again.

> it's more telling to what you think gamers have.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, again.

> You aren't a gamer,

You have absolutely no idea whether I am or not.

> you don't know.

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, again.

> I am a gamer,

Irrelevant to your lie.

> I do know.

You lie.

>>>>>> Hardly anyone else spends a cent on better video than what is on the motherboard.

>>>>> Doubtful.

>>>> Fact. There is a reason so many motherboards have build in video now. In spades with the cheaper systems.

> I'm not doubting that the majority of computers have integrated video adapters, my argument is that compared to
> discrete video cards, integrated video is inferior in terms of performance.

Completely irrelevant to whether they are perfectly adequate for all but gamers.

>>>>> Nvidia took in over 3.2 billion USD last year alone.

>>>> Irrelevant to that particular point.

>>> Only irrelevant when you ignore the fact that Nvidia's primary business is discrete video cards.

>> Says nothing useful what so ever about how many dont
>> bother with other than whats built in to the motherboard.

> Yeah it does,

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, again.

> if integrated video was enough for everybody

No one ever said anything like that, liar.

> then Nvidia wouldn't be selling billions of dollars worth of discrete video cards every yeah.

Says nothing useful what so ever about how many dont
bother with other than whats built in to the motherboard.

>>>>>>> The more demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires multiple mid tier video cards to
>>>>>>> get a decent frame rate with the eye candy turn on.

>>>>>> Pity about the less demanding.

>>>>> It's called progress.

>>>> Its actually called mindless bullshit.

>>> Your opinion

>> Nope, fact.

>>>>> If it weren't for the more demanding gamings, we'd still be playing pong.

>>>> Irrelevant to that stupid line about what that particular steaming
>>>> turd requires video card wise.

>>> Again, your opinion.

>> Nope, fact, again.

> Not that you we be able to do so, but please elaborate on this "fact".

Doesnt need any elaboration.

>>>>>>>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around

>>>>>>> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.

>>>>>> Wrong, as always.

>>>>> Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly
>>>>> better performance than modern integrated solutions.

>>> I'm still waiting

>> Try holding your breath while you wait, particularly with used cards.

>>>>>>>> and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too

>>>>>>> Those aren't discrete cards chief,

>>>>>> Duh, indian.

>>>>>>> they are integrated onto the mobo or in some cases the CPU itself.

>>>>>> Pity that hardly anyone but gamers need anything better than that.

>>>>> Ever try to play a 1080p video on even a 3 or 4 year old computer
>>>>> sporting an Intel GMA?

>>>> We arent talking about obsolete computers.

>>> Apparently we are,

>> Another lie.

>>> as the specs of this vaunted $200 are more in line with a 3 or 4 year old computer.

>> Another lie.

>>> You'd know that if you bothered to look it up.

>> Did look it up, fool..

>>>>>>>> More fool you.

>>>>>>> Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.

>>>>>> Or you are a fool. And the typical user will find that the
>>>>>> video in that $200 Asus is fine unless they are a gamer.

>>>>> Sure about that?

>>>> Yep.

>>>>> The $200 Asus has a single core Intel Atom CPU, It will struggle mightily with Windows 7.

>>>> Another pig ignorant lie.

>>> Prove me wrong.

>> YOU spewed the lie.

>> YOU get to do the proving.

>> THATS how it works.

> Fair enough. Behold, the $200 Acer
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acer-PS.VBG0C.001/15935450

But not a shred of evidence that it will struggle mightily with Win7,
or even that any buyers of it will even want to run Win7 on it.

> Now if you'll kindly show me the $20 video card that is faster than the current crop of integrated video adapters....

Go and fuck yourself, again.

>> AND you dont even know that they even want to run Win7 on it ANYWAY.

> The won't be using Win9x, no driver support,

No one said anything about Win9x.

> They might try WinXP but support for that will end in two years or so,

They may not give a flying red fuck about that.

> and with that slow a CPU, it performance won't exactly be great with the current version of WinXP anyway.

It'll be fine for the sort of thing they suggest it be used for.

> Most users won't use Linux, so where does that leave us?

With them welcome to run XP if they dont like Linux, stupid.

>>> spewing your catchphrases doesn't lend credence your argument.

>> Your lies in spades.

> Only lies in your eyes

Everyone can see for themselves that you are lying, again.

There are hordes of netbooks sold with worse specs than that Acer.

>>>>> It comes with Linux but the typical user probably won't want to deal with it.

>>>> Irrelevant.

>>> But somehow my argument that the $200 computer isn't a good unit

>> Everyone can see for themselves that that is nothing like your original lie.

>>> is also irrelevant.

>> Everyone can see for themselves that I never said that.

>>> So your saying not having the OS that the vast majority of the
>>> population is familiar with is somehow less of an inconvenience
>>> that having substandard hardware specs?

>> Nope,. not saying anything like that. It wont be the typical
>> user that buys that system anyway given that it doesnt
>> even have a hard drive, keyboard monitor etc included.

> I does have a hard drive, keyboard and mouse.

Pity you dont know that that is the $200 Acer the OP referred to.

?> If you knew what computer you were talking
> about from the very beginning, you'd know that.

Pity you dont know that that is the $200 Acer the OP referred to.

> Are you conceding that this computer wouldn't be a great purchase for the average user?

Nope. And no one said anything about it being a great purchase for the average user
anyway. What was actually being discussed was your pig ignorant lie right at the top.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 90% of the evil/dumb laws passed in the Western world are voted upon by
the Christian/elderly segment of the population
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1302370cefadc98a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 6:27 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"


On Jul 15, 6:18 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser
Philosopher" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> How could they "buy" a war that didn't cost them a penny? That's dumb,
> huh? And now reality and BS are in conflict. Moreover, anything good
> for the country, from fast trains to bike lanes, is evil or at least
> socialist.

This is yet another example of the dumb/apathetic voter ignoring the
"enemy at the gates"...

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - The U.S. consulate in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico's
most violent drug war city, warned on Friday that cartels may be
seeking U.S. targets in a possible escalation of violence.

http://news.yahoo.com/u-warns-possible-attacks-ciudad-juarez-022532834.html

Gee, another way to cut the deficit and save lives which is not on the
table. What about LEGALIZING DRUGS? Whose morality would be hurt if
not that of the hypocritical Christian? Why are our prisons
overflowing? Why have they turned into profitable enterprises?
(profitable for some --the wolves)

What's the business of government in your private life anyway? I smell
Christian.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: All commands & shortcuts
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9a3bfc7e3ebe8b52?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 2:47 pm
From: "webtech.ashish webtechnoworld"


For all commands & shortcuts...
Take a look at-
http://www.webtechnoworld.com/Windows-Commands-and-Shortcuts.php

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 6 people praying and one pushing a cart... may make it move
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/b7bad8117cbd0ad5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 3:02 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"


On Jul 13, 12:22 am, David Dalton <dal...@nfld.com> wrote:

- Hide quoted text -

> I have developed a new age magickal working that I think
> is having some effect but I think it will have a larger
> effect if other people get behind it.

> Some of the highlights include:

> 1. an end to child abuse
> 2. a banning of war
> 3. positive effects for the environment and other species
> 4. sudden evolution of humans and other species
> 5. a renewal of workings by past figures including Buddha,
> on a global scale

> If you wish to collaborate just visualize the planet including
> its interior and up to 500 km above and just push the new
> age working. If you don't want to do that willing but
> instead want to do it by prayer, just pray to whoever you
> normally do to help the new age working. If you'd rather
> not participate in my working, please push your own
> working for some or all of the above listed items.

> I have previously referred to the new age working as
> the four components which some of you might have
> already collaborated with.

6 people praying and one pushing a cart... may make it move.


--------------------------------------------------------------

WISDOM OF THE JUNGLE

http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jul 16 2011 7:48 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"


"The 6 people may have been praying for the other guy to be inspired
to move the cart."

MY ANSWER:

True, but they may have overestimated the power of one man to move the
cart.

It depends how heavy is the cart. A shopping cart shouldn't be
problem.

But you are assuming that it was physical effort that moved the cart.
In the eyes of some the prayers moved the cart while the guy alone is
faking to move the cart.


==============================================================================

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Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Saturday, July 16, 2011

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 17 new messages in 6 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Acer computer for $200 at WALMART - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/62a95b83acaa1d71?hl=en
* nabxgsv Visit Vicious Physician Michael E. Kan at His Home or Office and Let
Him Know, Palpably, What You Think!! sjnhbg - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/30d1697d14129db4?hl=en
* RARE HOT SEX PHOTOS & VIDEOS - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d0b52805a556b6fb?hl=en
* getting 3x faster internet for same price - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7eeb5cfa430c2c15?hl=en
* 90% of the evil/dumb laws passed in the Western world are voted upon by the
Christian/elderly segment of the population - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1302370cefadc98a?hl=en
* OT - Why Denmark is Better Than Texas - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c142f1b33d5cfc6e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Acer computer for $200 at WALMART
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/62a95b83acaa1d71?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 2:07 pm
From: Forrest Hodge


On 7/14/2011 3:12 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Forrest Hodge wrote
>> aesthete8 wrote
>
>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>
>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.
>
> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of
> perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
> included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.
>
>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.
>
> More fool you.
>
>

> Only gamers need anything like that.

Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood. The more
demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires
multiple mid tier video cards to get a decent frame rate with the eye
candy turn on.

>There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around

The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.


>and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too

Those aren't discrete cards chief, they are integrated onto the mobo or
in some cases the CPU itself.

> More fool you.

Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.


== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 3:07 am
From: "Rod Speed"


Forrest Hodge wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>> aesthete8 wrote

>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.

>> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
>> included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.

>>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made,
>>> underpowered POS.

>> More fool you.

>> Only gamers need anything like that.

> Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood.

Some do, some dont.

Hardly anyone else spends a cent on better video than what is on the motherboard.

> The more demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires multiple mid tier video cards to get a
> decent frame rate with the eye candy turn on.

Pity about the less demanding.

>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around

> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.

Wrong, as always.

>> and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too

> Those aren't discrete cards chief,

Duh, indian.

> they are integrated onto the mobo or in some cases the CPU itself.

Pity that hardly anyone by gamers need anything better than that.

>> More fool you.

> Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.

Or you are a fool/ And the typical user will find that the
video in that $200 Asus is fine unless they are a gamer.


== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 3:22 am
From: Shawn Hirn


In article
<5b80cf5e-eea3-486a-b165-4ff7f1e0521c@12g2000yqr.googlegroups.com>,
aesthete8 <artsy6@gmail.com> wrote:

> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

You get what you pay for.


== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 8:41 am
From: "Bob F"


Forrest Hodge wrote:
> On 7/12/2011 8:29 PM, aesthete8 wrote:
>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>
> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card. One can't help but
> think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.

All you need to add is a keyboard, monitor, mouse, memory, and a hard drive.


== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 10:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"


Bob F wrote
> Forrest Hodge wrote
>> aesthete8 wrote

>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card. One can't help
>> but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.

> All you need to add is a keyboard, monitor, mouse, memory, and a hard drive.

Or you already have those.


== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 11:45 am
From: Forrest Hodge


On 7/15/2011 6:07 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Forrest Hodge wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>> aesthete8 wrote
>
>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>
>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.
>
>>> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
>>> included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.
>
>>>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made,
>>>> underpowered POS.
>
>>> More fool you.
>
>>> Only gamers need anything like that.
>
>> Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood.
>
> Some do, some dont.

More do than don't.

>
> Hardly anyone else spends a cent on better video than what is on the motherboard.

Doubtful. Nvidia took in over 3.2 billion USD last year alone.

>
>> The more demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires multiple mid tier video cards to get a
>> decent frame rate with the eye candy turn on.
>
> Pity about the less demanding.

It's called progress. If it weren't for the more demanding gamings, we'd
still be playing pong.
>
>>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around
>
>> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.
>
> Wrong, as always.

Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly better
performance than modern integrated solutions.
>
>>> and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too
>
>> Those aren't discrete cards chief,
>
> Duh, indian.
>
>> they are integrated onto the mobo or in some cases the CPU itself.
>
> Pity that hardly anyone by gamers need anything better than that.

Ever try to play a 1080p video on even a 3 or 4 year old computer
sporting an Intel GMA?
>
>>> More fool you.
>
>> Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.
>
> Or you are a fool/ And the typical user will find that the
> video in that $200 Asus is fine unless they are a gamer.

Sure about that? The $200 Asus has a single core Intel Atom CPU, It will
struggle mightily with Windows 7. It comes with Linux but the typical
user probably won't want to deal with it.


== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 12:05 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"


In article <98bc30F4poU1@mid.individual.net>,
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

> Bob F wrote
> > Forrest Hodge wrote
> >> aesthete8 wrote
>
> >>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>
> >> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card. One can't help
> >> but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.
>
> > All you need to add is a keyboard, monitor, mouse, memory, and a hard drive.
>
> Or you already have those.

pity about those that don't


== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 1:52 pm
From: Michael Black


On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, Malcom "Mal" Reynolds wrote:

> In article <98bc30F4poU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Bob F wrote
>>> Forrest Hodge wrote
>>>> aesthete8 wrote
>>
>>>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>>
>>>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card. One can't help
>>>> but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.
>>
>>> All you need to add is a keyboard, monitor, mouse, memory, and a hard drive.
>>
>> Or you already have those.
>
> pity about those that don't
>
Then perhaps it's the wrong choice.

Since the original poster didn't mention a specific model, it's really
hard to judge what he's talking about. But there is now a wave of small
computers that are really laptops without the screen. They serve a
specific purpose, and are presumably good for that purpose.

Some of them don't include hard drives, the intention being that you use
it with an external drive, one shared with another computer.

No, maybe these computers aren't the best choice, but at this point few
people don't have computer junk around. If they pull that desktop out of
the garbage, they still might need some of those things.

On the other hand, I've found plenty of mice and keyboards lying on the
sidewalk waiting for the garbage trucks. I pulled a 20gig hard drive out
of a computer lying on the sidewalk earlier in the month, and about a year
ago I found some sort of TV box lying on the sidewalk that I pulled a
320gig hard drive out of (ironically, it's a SATA drive and I've yet to
get to the point where I have a computer that has a SATA drive built in).

I found a nice 17" LCD monitor last spring when the students finished with
university, and I found a 19" LCD monitor this past spring, though that
one needs work, it works but has some flakiness to it.

Or, at this point many people do have LCD tv sets that have a VGA or even
better input that a computer can feed. That too is an interesting
tradeoff, more recent computers may not have VGA output while they will
have the fancier HDMI that an LCD tv set often has.

The point of being frugal isn't "buyin cheap" it's making informed
decisions. And yes, too many people end up spending money because they
can't be bothered spending time to learn how to fix that tap, or learn
what they really need in a computer so they listen to the "experts" who
tell them nothing less than a certain set of specs is "good enough".

Michael

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 7:23 pm
From: "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"


In article <ivq1t3$9qm$1@dont-email.me>, Forrest Hodge <fo19@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> >>> There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around
> >
> >> The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.
> >
> > Wrong, as always.
>
> Prove it. Show me a $20 video card that's offers significantly better
> performance than modern integrated solutions.

asking rod for proof is like asking a skunk to sell perfume

==============================================================================
TOPIC: nabxgsv Visit Vicious Physician Michael E. Kan at His Home or Office
and Let Him Know, Palpably, What You Think!! sjnhbg
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/30d1697d14129db4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 5:19 am
From: Nomen Nescio


mfxkw orj 3iow g

DO NOT PATRONIZE psychopathic physician Michael E. Kan.

nez2uixh ui3h 29oe
zm 2h ioc j2iope

Michael E. Kan and John M. Rashkis, both of Los Gatos
California, are dangerous, vicious, and mendacious physicians. Both
physicians routinely retaliate against family members who disagree
with their decisions by making false police reports of abuse against
family members of patients and false reports of abuse to County Adult
Protective Agencies.

jkeixr i9z 9f 9i3owe
wz`eifh ixo e89rf io12 r89

CONTACT INFORMATION:

Michael E. Kan:
Office Address: 360 Dardanelli Lane, Los Gatos, Ca 95032
(408) 378-2900
Home Address: 863 Robin Lane, Campbell, Ca 95008 (OLD)
1785 East Main Avenue, Morgan Hill, Ca 95037-3213
(MOST RECENT)
(408) 379-0179 (408) 379-5779

John M. Rashkis:
Office Address: 485 Monterey Avenue, Los Gatos, CA
(408) 354-9200 FAX: (408)395-5487
Home Address: 150 Old Adobe Way, Los Gatos, CA 95032
(408) 378-7030

oiexiuou 89we 892u
j er ghioj1 zioe roxi9oip

Both of these physicians presently have pending against themselves
multiple complaints to the California Medical Board Enforcement
Division for substandard care, harassment, unprofessional conduct,
and abuse of process.

wzuieei9ercygfuu 2ioerh 9
j 2z e i92x xwe9f ci4

These two physicians are reptiles, reptiles of quite low character
in fact; contact them in any way that you feel appropriate and let
them know, palpably, what you think of reptiles. Do not patronize
them and do your civic duty to warn your friends, family, and the
general public about these despicable miscreants.

huiqeiox32u e98ru c90wr t90

Let us join together to drive them out by starving them out: no
patient in the office equals no mortgage payment, no pool payment, no
private school tuition payment for their children, and no porche
payment.

mikexjs rhuiox hierfg y89cw
j ei2oxr g8i9u 390crtu

Furthermore, since they practice at Good Samaritan Hospital in San
Jose, boycott this hospital if at all possible; go to Los Gatos or
O'Conner instead.

iio u i9e xio hui9 op
iwze ui9 2i9er i2 8r oper

Let us drive these detestable and loathsome vermin out, sooner
rather than later.

kircwtiun902unr89r
iowz 2eiuoj 2ixoerf io2 juqciwor
ex2jk r ioxj ewriu9 o2ipx jiot 2io3t

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 12:37 pm
From: Lubow


On Jul 15, 8:19 am, Nomen Nescio <nob...@dizum.com> wrote:
> mfxkw orj 3iow g
>
> DO NOT PATRONIZE psychopathic physician


Any reason your pile of bullshit needs to be posted in
misc.invest.stocks?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RARE HOT SEX PHOTOS & VIDEOS
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/d0b52805a556b6fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 10:02 am
From: RAMYA


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FOR HOT PHOTO&VIDEOS
TAPSEE RARE PHOTOS
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: getting 3x faster internet for same price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7eeb5cfa430c2c15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 1:00 pm
From: The Real Bev


On 07/14/11 06:52, Bob F wrote:

> Ohioguy wrote:
>> My Dad is moving to the area, and asked me to look into high speed
>> internet for him. About 8 months ago, I had signed up for "cable
>> internet light" through Earthlink. (which uses Time Warner) At the
>> time, that was the best deal around here - a rural area - for $29.95.
>> It gives me 0.7 megabits per second. Previously I was on dialup, so
>> it seemed fast.
>>
>> However, when I looked a couple of days ago, I saw that the
>> Earthlink prices had been upped a few dollars for new signups, so I
>> went to look at the Time Warner cable internet pages directly. Interestingly,
>> I saw that they offered the same thing I currently
>> have for $19.95 a month for 12 months. They also had 2 megabits per
>> second, around 3x my current speed, for the same $29.95 a month I'm
>> currently paying - also for 12 months.
>>
>> I can't seem to find anything about what their regular prices are,
>> what they might jump up to after 12 months, or if this just means the
>> price is guaranteed at that level for 12 months, with no increases.
>>
>> Can anyone shed any light on this? I am wondering if it might be
>> worth it for me to cancel for 3 weeks, then sign up again for a year
>> with the 3x faster speed.
>>
>
> Try calling them and asking if they are offering any special prices currently.
> That has worked for me with my cable company. They usually will offer some
> special 6-12 month deal. Occasionally, I have to try again in a few weeks to get
> a deal. It could help to have a better alternative you could go to to leverage
> them.

Tell them, nicely of course, that in these trying times you really can't
afford more than you're already paying and will have to find a cheaper
alternative... They will offer you your current rate "as a special
discount" for a year. Next year repeat the routine.


--
Cheers, Bev
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
"Only wimps use tape backup; *real* men just upload their
important stuff on FTP, and let the rest of the world
mirror it ;)" -- Linus Torvalds


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 3:16 pm
From: sf


On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 07:02:35 -0400, Ohioguy <none@none.net> wrote:

> Can anyone shed any light on this? I am wondering if it might be
> worth it for me to cancel for 3 weeks, then sign up again for a year
> with the 3x faster speed.

Call Time Warner and ask about their rates now, don't cancel and wait.
Go with the special and when it's over, ask about other specials.
Sometimes you can lower your rate by adding services, like HBO.

We saved a bundle on a recent cruise. It was a great deal through the
cruise line, then my husband found a better deal through an online
travel agency. They transferred the room we'd already reserved, we
got the better price plus an earlybird discount and free travel
insurance. It doesn't hurt to ask, the worst they will say is "no".

We had a minor billing issue with our cable provider a few months ago.
It was settled with one phone call. My husband called them the
following day to confirm what had been agreed to... and when he got
off the phone, our account had a $600 credit. I listened to the
conversation on my end, there was no complaining, arguing, or voice
raising and we ended up with a big credit that we didn't turn down.

--

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 4:20 pm
From: Patricia Martin Steward


On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 07:02:35 -0400, Ohioguy <none@none.net> wrote:
>
> I can't seem to find anything about what their regular prices are,
>what they might jump up to after 12 months, or if this just means the
>price is guaranteed at that level for 12 months, with no increases.
>
> Can anyone shed any light on this?

Sher.... call 'em and ask.

It worked with my cable company. Why not?

--
We are becoming a country that believes the rich have earned their money but the well educated have not
earned their intellectual superiority. This leads to a nation that idolizes Kardashians.
Joel Stein, TIME, 8/23/10

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 90% of the evil/dumb laws passed in the Western world are voted upon by
the Christian/elderly segment of the population
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1302370cefadc98a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 3:22 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"


On Jul 15, 12:29 pm, Billy <Wildbi...@withouta.net> wrote:
> In article
> <e97ff1a8-2ec0-49af-a319-e29c6a148...@x12g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
> "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jun 14, 2:28 pm, Billy <Wildbi...@withouta.net> wrote:
> > > > > In article
> > > > > <5fdde83a-5ff4-4da6-87d2-7350dddf2...@p13g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
> > > > > <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jun 7, 1:09 am, Billy <Wildbi...@withouta.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > In article
> > > > > > > <0bfe99eb-f27b-42ad-be8b-f0ac1de25...@n11g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"
>
> > > > > > > <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > (We are talking about the new laws restricting marijuana in
> > > > > > > > Holland.
> > > > > > > > The title above is just my "humble opinion," not something
> > > > > > > > statistically accurate. I think most statistics are inaccurate or
> > > > > > > > manipulated anyway, starting with the one that declares 90% of
> > > > > > > > Americans to be "religious")
>
> > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 12:55 pm, "Brave Burger" <b...@veburg.er> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Right wing party makes sure to restrict free trade and
> > > > > > > > > > promote
> > > > > > > > > > health.
> > > > > > > > > > I wonder if junk food is fought with the same intensity. Down
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > McDonald's!
>
> > > > > > > > > Actually, getting up too early causes the same problems as
> > > > > > > > > smoking
> > > > > > > > > (well, except for the longue problems) and I never saw a law
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > prevented
> > > > > > > > > me from gettting u[ early because i had to go to work.
>
> > > > > > > > > > "Backed by the far-right party of anti-immigrant politician
> > > > > > > > > > Geert
> > > > > > > > > > Wilders, the coalition government that came into power last
> > > > > > > > > > year
> > > > > > > > > > announced plans to curb drug tourism as part of a nationwide
> > > > > > > > > > program
> > > > > > > > > > to promote health and fight crime."
>
> > > > > > > > > Well it is more a clampdown on freedoms. And religious nutters
> > > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > want you to get only high on Jesus etc.
> > > > > > > > > His plan is a club system where you have to a member and you
> > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > only be a member if you are Dutch, so foreign tourists don`t
> > > > > > > > > smoke
> > > > > > > > > somthing
> > > > > > > > > tat is illegal in their country, and it is implemented with a
> > > > > > > > > pass
> > > > > > > > > system.
> > > > > > > > > And now
> > > > > > > > > he wants that these clubs have no more then 1500 members, which
> > > > > > > > > isn`t
> > > > > > > > > enough
> > > > > > > > > to life of, unless they are stoned all day.
> > > > > > > > > So clubholders only want heavy smokers then ;o)
>
> > > > > > > > > Tjhe thing is that I se no such thing on bars, where muslim
> > > > > > > > > people
> > > > > > > > > sometimes sneakely drink some alcohol when they visit us.
> > > > > > > > > And in some muslim countries alcohol is an illegal substance.
> > > > > > > > > So we need a pass system for bars too. ;o)
>
> > > > > > > > It is my contention that 90% of the evil/dumb laws passed in the
> > > > > > > > Western world are voted upon by the Christian/elderly segment of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > population.
>
> > > > > > > > Why they get away with such privilege is beyond my wisdom.
>
> Religion evokes duty, and the old have a historical perspective. No
> privilege involved. If you are an adult, informed or not, you can vote.

They have bred a sheep that votes but who does so to feed the wolves.

A democracy based on ignorant voters amounts to a tyranny of the
idiots or IDIOCRACY....

"prophetic film. 5 years later, people are really more idiotic"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0yQunhOaU0

How could they "buy" a war that didn't cost them a penny? That's dumb,
huh? And now reality and BS are in conflict. Moreover, anything good
for the country, from fast trains to bike lanes, is evil or at least
socialist.

They have a single-minded statement: NO MORE TAXES. Sure, the country
is nearly bankrupt.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Why Denmark is Better Than Texas
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c142f1b33d5cfc6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 15 2011 4:33 pm
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"


On Jul 15, 8:19 am, "andresm...@aol.com" <andresm...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Jul 14, 8:59 pm, "T°m Sherm@n" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> $southslope.net"> wrote:
> > On 7/14/2011 5:40 PM, Peter Cole wrote:
>
> > > On 7/14/2011 1:41 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher wrote:
> > >>> On Jul 13, 9:34 am, Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >>>> [...]
> > >>>> Good news that segregating bike traffic helps, though.
>
> > >>> No, it doesn't work. Holland and Denmark are a complete failure. The
> > >>> success stories are to be found somewhere in Florida and Texas.
>
> > >> Texas is a roughly $1.5 trillion dollar economy.
> > >> Denmark turns over roughly US$300 billion.
>
> > >> This is not news. Here are a couple of easily found links
> > >>http://www.tradingeconomics.com/denmark/gdp
> > >>http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/01/us_equivalents
>
> > > I don't know where all this is going. The only point I was trying to
> > > make is that it seems to be becoming more obvious that cycling in close
> > > proximity to MV exhaust isn't good for you and even small separation can
> > > be helpful -- something my nose told me long ago.
>
> > > I don't know what the 5x GDP of Texas vs. Denmark proves, when Texas has
> > > 5x the population, too.
>
> > But Texas has way more than 5 times the criminals (both white and blue
> > collar), religious nuts, ignoramuses, SUVs, sociopathic crony
> > capitalists, and other undesirables compared to Denmark.  Also more than
> > 5 times the population of homeless, untreated ill, chronically hungry,
> > and exploited low wage workers.
>
> > The laws regarding victimless crimes are much more sensible in Denmark
> > than Texas, due to the population being aware of The Enlightenment,
> > rather than the socially regressive nature of Texas.
>
> > Anders Fogh Rasmussen is pretty far right-wing by Danish standards, but
> > a far cry from the brutality and ignorance of Shrub Bush and Good-hair
> > Perry (not to mention the criminality of the former).
>
> > Denmark has the much superior climate 9 months out of the year.  And one
> > of the best names for a bicycle manufacturer:
> > <http://www.larryvsharry.com/english/>.
>
> > --
> > Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
> > I am a vehicular cyclist.
>
> But, but, but....Texas is the most macho, tough, god fearing state in
> the good ol' USA. Plus we have the handsomest, toughest, most macho,
> most religious , and soon to be president of the USA, Rick Perry. He
> is on a mission from god to become president so that he can minister
> to us, or so he claims. No more black communist foreigners and
> feminazis in the whitehouse.  Do I have to remind u that GHB, BWB and
> Alberto Gonzalez are all from TX?
>
> Texas is also so macho that it is one of the least educated states in
> the nation, and it has cut pretty much all educational and social
> services for the state in the last budget session, despite having some
> of the richest and most powerful corporations in the WORLD. NOw, that
> is really, really macho!
>
> Finally, we got CHALO, and this makes us the bestest of the best.

"The Middle Class is what has distinguished this country from the rest
of the world for hundreds of years. Not Freedom. The Brits have more
freedom than we do and did almost from the time we were breaking fee
from Great Britain. The French have real, total freedom as do the
Swedes and Danes and Dutch and Germans and Swiss….far more freedom
than we have. What we have is more geography, more space. Germany is
the size of New York State. You could put all of Eastern and Western
Europe east of the Rocky Mountains with room to spare."

http://www.populistdaily.com/politics/national-debt-solution-create-jobs-repeal-tax-cuts-nationalize-energy.html

Regrettably, this much space has not translated into more space for
bicycles...


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Friday, July 15, 2011

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 8 new messages in 5 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Acer computer for $200 at WALMART - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/62a95b83acaa1d71?hl=en
* getting 3x faster internet for same price - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7eeb5cfa430c2c15?hl=en
* This is what has sprung from the film... V for Vendetta. . It is
untargetable. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/805e50da751e5d80?hl=en
* Good Samaritans lift truck off the chest of cyclist - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e7b6c47d4aac7d9?hl=en
* Purest bottled water - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8fb2e6ad277be2bc?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Acer computer for $200 at WALMART
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/62a95b83acaa1d71?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 13 2011 10:25 pm
From: Forrest Hodge


On 7/12/2011 8:29 PM, aesthete8 wrote:
> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card. One can't help but
think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.


== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 12:12 pm
From: "Rod Speed"


Forrest Hodge wrote
> aesthete8 wrote

>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?

> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.

Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of
perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.

> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.

More fool you.


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 2:07 pm
From: Forrest Hodge


On 7/14/2011 3:12 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> Forrest Hodge wrote
>> aesthete8 wrote
>
>>> If anyone has tried that, what was your reaction?
>
>> Seeing how $200 barely buys a mid-range video card.
>
> Only gamers need anything like that. There are plenty of
> perfectly adequate $20 video cards around and those
> included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too.
>
>> One can't help but think the $200 computer will be a cheaply made, underpowered POS.
>
> More fool you.
>
>

> Only gamers need anything like that.

Gamers will have more than a $200 a video card under the hood. The more
demanding games like Crysis 2 w/ the DX11 patch pretty much requires
multiple mid tier video cards to get a decent frame rate with the eye
candy turn on.

>There are plenty of perfectly adequate $20 video cards around

The $20 video card won't be much better than integrated.


>and those included with the motherboard that dont even cost that too

Those aren't discrete cards chief, they are integrated onto the mobo or
in some cases the CPU itself.

> More fool you.

Perhaps my standards are bit higher than the typical user.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: getting 3x faster internet for same price
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7eeb5cfa430c2c15?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 4:02 am
From: Ohioguy


My Dad is moving to the area, and asked me to look into high speed
internet for him. About 8 months ago, I had signed up for "cable
internet light" through Earthlink. (which uses Time Warner) At the
time, that was the best deal around here - a rural area - for $29.95.
It gives me 0.7 megabits per second. Previously I was on dialup, so it
seemed fast.

However, when I looked a couple of days ago, I saw that the Earthlink
prices had been upped a few dollars for new signups, so I went to look
at the Time Warner cable internet pages directly. Interestingly, I saw
that they offered the same thing I currently have for $19.95 a month for
12 months. They also had 2 megabits per second, around 3x my current
speed, for the same $29.95 a month I'm currently paying - also for 12
months.

I can't seem to find anything about what their regular prices are,
what they might jump up to after 12 months, or if this just means the
price is guaranteed at that level for 12 months, with no increases.

Can anyone shed any light on this? I am wondering if it might be
worth it for me to cancel for 3 weeks, then sign up again for a year
with the 3x faster speed.

Thanks!


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 6:52 am
From: "Bob F"


Ohioguy wrote:
> My Dad is moving to the area, and asked me to look into high speed
> internet for him. About 8 months ago, I had signed up for "cable
> internet light" through Earthlink. (which uses Time Warner) At the
> time, that was the best deal around here - a rural area - for $29.95.
> It gives me 0.7 megabits per second. Previously I was on dialup, so
> it seemed fast.
>
> However, when I looked a couple of days ago, I saw that the
> Earthlink prices had been upped a few dollars for new signups, so I
> went to look at the Time Warner cable internet pages directly. Interestingly,
> I saw that they offered the same thing I currently
> have for $19.95 a month for 12 months. They also had 2 megabits per
> second, around 3x my current speed, for the same $29.95 a month I'm
> currently paying - also for 12 months.
>
> I can't seem to find anything about what their regular prices are,
> what they might jump up to after 12 months, or if this just means the
> price is guaranteed at that level for 12 months, with no increases.
>
> Can anyone shed any light on this? I am wondering if it might be
> worth it for me to cancel for 3 weeks, then sign up again for a year
> with the 3x faster speed.
>

Try calling them and asking if they are offering any special prices currently.
That has worked for me with my cable company. They usually will offer some
special 6-12 month deal. Occasionally, I have to try again in a few weeks to get
a deal. It could help to have a better alternative you could go to to leverage
them.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: This is what has sprung from the film... V for Vendetta. . It is
untargetable.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/805e50da751e5d80?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 9:38 am
From: phil scott


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLJ2z8BSUPc&feature=feedf

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Good Samaritans lift truck off the chest of cyclist
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e7b6c47d4aac7d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 9:56 am
From: "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"


On Jul 13, 2:07 pm, "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser
Philosopher" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This could be interpreted in many ways but it falls upon my shoulders
> to ask the tough questions: WHY DO WE NEED TO DRIVE ENORMOUS VEHICLES?
> It would have taken three people to lift a Mini off her chest. What if
> there weren't 9 people around?
>
> "Miller fell to the ground, with the truck on top of her. She was
> having difficulty breathing, and was turning purple.
>
> That's when IHOP manager Jose Preciado and nine others jumped into
> action. The group, which also included a cook and several diners,
> teamed up to pull the enormous vehicle off of Miller."
>
> Here you may find more interpretations... (including the customary
> "god blessing")
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/samaritans-lift-truck-off-cyclist...
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Wisdom of the jungle dictates that you stay away from a bone crushing
> elephant"
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/BANANAREVOLUTION

This may look out of place here, but the bottom line is the same: TAX
TRUCKS OUT OF EXISTENCE, well beyond the reach of the middle class.

On Jul 13, 10:39 pm, Billy <Wildbi...@withouta.net> wrote:
> In article
> <cb7921d5-7342-4fd4-9f0b-bcc17bb7a...@hg8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> "His Highness the TibetanMonkey, the Beach Cruiser Philosopher"

> > I don't but just I assume that "most" blacks voted for Obama, I assume
> > that most Christians consider Obama evil. Their president was
> > warmongering Bush.
>
> Nearly 25 per cent of U.S. adults - about 30 million - are Catholic and
> 54 per cent of them voted for pro-abortion Obama as opposed to 46 per
> cent for McCain.
>
> 78% of the Jewish vote went to Obama. Jewish support - which made up 2%
> of the overall electorate - has, in recent years, been overwhelmingly
> Democrat; with Al Gore receiving 79% in 2000 and John Kerry 74% in 2004.
>
> Bush probably got the Baptist vote.

It's no surprise that the Free Spirits voted Democrat, the lesser evil
so to speak.

"12% of the vote cast were cast by those of No particular religious
faith, 75% of whom voted for Obama and 23% for McCain."

http://www.christianadc.org/news-and-articles/96-2008-presidential-election-exit-polls-religion-and-voting

It's the hardcore American Taliban that puts Obama as the Devil
himself. Remember also people were just fed up with the Republicans
and their wars. Obama means little change in a system caught up in
corruption and lies. Case in point, Obama said over the debt
negotiations:

"What we're seeing here confirms what the American people think is the
worst about Washington: that everyone is more interested in posturing
and political positioning and protecting their base than solving real
problems."

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-vs-cantor-tempers-flare-debt-ceiling-negotiations-132033325.html

Nobody wants to hear the big truth: PUT AN ENERGY TAX IN PLACE SIMILAR
TO EUROPE, and help close the debt gap. TAX WARS at least. Where are
the people that supported them?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Purest bottled water
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/8fb2e6ad277be2bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 14 2011 11:42 am
From: "mr.Vandalay"


In article
<d4aad25b-5e29-423f-89ea-1a1c73a4d754@n5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
aesthete8 <artsy6@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any recommendations?

We filter our tap water through a solid block of carbon. A Multi-pure
filters out stuff to .5 micron. then refill bottles to carry around.
Relatively cheaper.
--
Karma, What a concept!


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