Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 11 topics

Saturday, December 1, 2007

25 new messages in 11 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sewing Machine: Repair or replace
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/8dc420a167e31d49?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:28 pm
From: "Chloe"

Any experts out there? Our seldom-used, ca. 30-year-old, portable Singer
needs a repair that will probably run $125 or so. ($50 minimum just to have
the repair shop look at it.) For now and in the foreseeable future, the
machine is/will be only used for simple mending, but it does come in handy.
And at our age, DH and I only need something that'll last another 20 years
or so <g>.

Can someone tell me what a decent quality, very basic machine will cost if
we want to replace this one?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:55 pm
From: The Real Bev

Chloe wrote:

> Any experts out there? Our seldom-used, ca. 30-year-old, portable Singer
> needs a repair that will probably run $125 or so. ($50 minimum just to have
> the repair shop look at it.) For now and in the foreseeable future, the
> machine is/will be only used for simple mending, but it does come in handy.
> And at our age, DH and I only need something that'll last another 20 years
> or so <g>.
>
> Can someone tell me what a decent quality, very basic machine will cost if
> we want to replace this one?

I bought a 30-year-old Husqvarna machine (the one with the stump-pulling low
gear) for $3 at a yard sale and found the package of accessories at a
rummage sale for $1. I have only one stitch-disk and haven't seen any
others, but I can live with that!

What kind of repair does a sewing machine need? The old Singers I've seen
look pretty bulletproof.

Check ebay or craigslist for a used Singer Featherweight; Those In The Know
worship those things. The cheapest one I've ever seen at a yard sale was
$250. Also read some of the usenet sewing groups -- there are a lot of
experts reading one or more of them.

--
Cheers, Bev
==================================================
STRESS MANAGEMENT

Picture yourself near a stream.
Birds are singing in the crisp, cool mountain air.
Nothing can bother you here.
No one knows this secret place.
You are in total seclusion from
that place called the world.
The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall
fills the air with a cascade of serenity.
The water is crystal clear.
You can easily make out the face of the person
whose head you're holding under the water.
-- KevinT

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:42 pm
From: dale randall

Chloe wrote:
> Any experts out there? Our seldom-used, ca. 30-year-old, portable Singer
> needs a repair that will probably run $125 or so. ($50 minimum just to have
> the repair shop look at it.) For now and in the foreseeable future, the
> machine is/will be only used for simple mending, but it does come in handy.
> And at our age, DH and I only need something that'll last another 20 years
> or so <g>.
>
> Can someone tell me what a decent quality, very basic machine will cost if
> we want to replace this one?
>
>
I was looking at Walmart and they have singer simple machines for way
under 100.00.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:54 pm
From: The Real Bev

dale randall wrote:

> Chloe wrote:
>> Any experts out there? Our seldom-used, ca. 30-year-old, portable Singer
>> needs a repair that will probably run $125 or so. ($50 minimum just to have
>> the repair shop look at it.) For now and in the foreseeable future, the
>> machine is/will be only used for simple mending, but it does come in handy.
>> And at our age, DH and I only need something that'll last another 20 years
>> or so <g>.
>>
>> Can someone tell me what a decent quality, very basic machine will cost if
>> we want to replace this one?
>>
> I was looking at Walmart and they have singer simple machines for way
> under 100.00.

The denizens of the sewing newsgroups say that the new Singers are trash.
Real shame.

--
Cheers,
Bev
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
I remember when everybody posted to Usenet with their real, deliverable
e-mail address. Of all the sins committed by the spammers, destroying
the viability of the open Internet was the worst.
(Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, news.admin.net-abuse.email)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the difference?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/df54fd76af90ced4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:33 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dennis wrote:

> "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>Can anyone tell what the difference is between being frugal and being cheap?
>
> If you stop watering your lawn or turn out lights to save money on
> utility bills, you're being frugal.
>
> If your neighbor does it, he's being cheap.

I am frugal. You are cheap. He is miserly.

--
Cheers, Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However,
this is not necessarily a good idea...."

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:35 pm
From: The Real Bev

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:

> J Young wrote:
>
>> Can anyone tell what the difference is between being frugal and being
>> cheap? Not Webster's definition, just life in general.
>
> Well, the Vatican sitting on tremendous wealth while exhorting *other*
> people to help the poor, that's cheap...

No, it's hypocrisy/fraud and governments do it too.

--
Cheers, Bev
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However,
this is not necessarily a good idea...."

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 5:05 pm
From: "231" <231@alok.com>

AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "231" <231@alok.com> wrote in message
> news:4750882d$0$19775$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> AllEmailDeletedImmediately <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:474fa2a2$0$26032$b9f67a60@news.newsdemon.com...
>>>> Can anyone tell what the difference is between being frugal and
>>>> being cheap? Not Webster's definition, just life in general.
>>> let me give you an example:
>>>
>>> frugal is when you use a coupon and take your wife out to a
>>> reasonably nice restaurant for your anniversary. cheap is when
>>> you can afford to take her above restaurant and instead make her a
>>> pbj sandwich for dinner. now, if that pbj is really all you can
>>> afford, then that's not being cheap.
>>> cheap is also when you insist that she and the kids shop at a second
>>> hand store, even though you can afford better, while you head out
>>> and get an expensive suit.
>>
>>> imo, cheap always involves someone else.
>>
>> Nope, you are being cheap when you buy crap just because its the
>> cheapest available, and you end up spending more over the long haul
>> because it doesnt last as long as the more expensive better quality item.

> no. that's being wasteful or unfrugal, but not cheap.

Most call that sort of behaviour being cheap.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 7:10 pm
From: ""

On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:38:03 -0500, "J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:

>Can anyone tell what the difference is between being frugal and being cheap?
>Not Webster's definition, just life in general.

FRUGAL
Is getting a dollars worth for a dollar spent.

STINGY
Is trying to get "more".....

<rj>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 7:49 pm
From: "AllEmailDeletedImmediately"

"AllEmailDeletedImmediately" <derjda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:n3_3j.33$QS.8@trndny03...

here are a few more examples:

you go out to dinner with others and then find that you "forgot"
your wallet. i know this sometimes happens for real, but in
this instance it's deliberate.

you go out to dinner with others. when the bill comes you
suggest it be split x number of ways, even tho you know your
total would be more than that share.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Crucial Criteria for choosing equipment.
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/ee8cb2f81c0d6b16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:44 pm
From: Roderick Stewart

In article <5rdmllF140l8mU1@mid.individual.net>, Adrian C wrote:
> There still exists a lot of snobbery against LG and Samsung in the UK
> consumer mindset.

Really? I've got an LG washing machine and it's excellent. As far as I
know they're the only brand that have the main motor integral with the
drum instead of sticking out on a bracket with a rubber drive belt. The
whole assembly is mechanically much better balanced so it doesn't give
that "kick" whenever the drum starts, and is very quiet. I'm certainly
not snobbish about revolutionary designs that actually improve things.

Rod.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wuz de nite befo Crimmus
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7b7e38d404da5825?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:51 pm
From: Ted

On Dec 1, 12:38 pm, "127.0.0.1" <127.0....@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> Wuz de nite befo Crimmus
> And all ower da hood
> ereybody wuz' sleepin'
> Dey wuz sleepin' good.
>
> We hunged up our stockings
> An hoped like de' heck
> That old Santa
> Clause Be bringin' our check.
>
> All o'de fambily
> Wuz layin in de beds
> While Ripple and Thunderbird
> Danced through dey heads.
>
> I passed out inna' flo
> Right nex to my Maw
> When I heard sech a fuss
> I thunk: "It mus be de law!!!"
>
> I looked out thru de bars
> What covered my doe
> 'spectin' de sheriff
> Wif a warrent fo sho.
>
> And what did I see
> said, "Lawd look at dat!!"
> Ther' wuz a huge watermellon
> Pulled by giant warf rats!!
>
> Now ober all de years
> Santa Clause, he be white
> But looks liken us bros
> Gets a black Sanna dis nite.
>
> Faster dan a Po'lees car
> My home boy he came
> He whupped on dem warf rats
> An' called dem by name!
>
> On Leroy, on 'Lonzo
> And on Willie Lee
> On Saphire, on Chenequa
> Dey wuz a site to see!!
>
> As he landed dat watta' mellon
> Out der in da skreet
> I knowed it was fo' sho'
> Da damndest site I ebber did see.
>
> He didn't go down no chimbley
> He picked da' lock on my doe
> An' I sez to myself
> "Shit!! He done dis befoe!!!"
>
> He had dis big bag
> Full of prezents I 'xpect
> Wid Air Jordans and fake gold
> To wear roun' my neck.
>
> But he left no good prezents
> Jus started stealing my shit
> Got my drugs, got my guns,
> Even got my burglar's kit!!
>
> Wif my stuff in de bag
> Out da window he flewed
> I woudda' tried to catched him
> But he stoled my 'nife too!!
>
> He jumped on dat wadda' mellon
> An' whipped out a switch
> He wuz gone in a seccon'
> Dat son of a bitch!!
>
> Next year I be hopin'
> Anutha Sanna we git
> Cuz' diz here Sanna Clause
> Jus' ain't werf a shit!!!
>
> Author Unknown.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I take it this group has died and...???
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/86a3b9e19a68832b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 3:56 pm
From: "Joe"

"The Henchman" <dontsellmestuff@iampoor.net> wrote in message
news:Yel4j.142738$bj2.32663@fe08.news.easynews.com...
> now where does everyone go to hang out and discuss frugual living??

Dead? We're not dead yet! Just massively overwhelmed with junk...
--

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
http://yunx.com/valk.htm

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg

Hillary Exposed:
http://tinyurl.com/2v4avg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Earn $10,000 A Month From Your Bedroom !
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6336b665ba83c1e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:22 pm
From: bradddy@gmail.com

Earn $10,000 A Month From Your Bedroom!
Wish You Could Find Just One REAL LEGITIMATE WAY To Make REAL MONEY
Right From
Your Bedroom - Starting Today? Well... Listen Up -- In The Next 4
minutes
I'll show you how!
For More Details Check the Links Below:

http://solutionformakingmoneyonline.blogspot.com/

http://accessmoneyonline.blogspot.com/

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 5:40 pm
From: "catalpa"

<bradddy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:83aa3d9c-d9a5-41f7-bb20-27d497430ede@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Earn $10,000 A Month From Your Bedroom!
> Wish You Could Find Just One REAL LEGITIMATE WAY To Make REAL MONEY
> Right From
> Your Bedroom - Starting Today? Well... Listen Up -- In The Next 4
> minutes
> I'll show you how!
>

Isn't pimping illegal?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Coinstar Warning
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0a78df299577cc2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:39 pm
From: krw

In article <J4m4j.677$Mb.617@newsfe07.lga>, bashley101
+usenet@gmail.com says...
> Goomba38 wrote:
>
> > When I was a teenager in the 80's,I used to work for Maryland National
> > Bank's Cash Processing Center and we'd often get bags of coins which
> > when counted we'd find silver. We were allowed to buy those coins at
> > face value and I'd collected hundreds of dollars (at face value) of
> > silver which was increasing in price. We sold the silver to dealers for
> > a nice bit of money.. but silver dropped in price and I've never cared
> > to play that way again. I don't have the patience or ability to store or
> > haul coins about waiting for silver to go up.
>
> Remember when there was a penny shortage and grocery stores and banks were
> offering a premium to turn in your pennies? After that I saved pennies,
> waiting for the next windfall. Years later hen I got tired of tripping over
> the jars I decided to turn them in to the bank at face value. Imagine my
> joy to discover that the local banks no longer had change-counting machines.
> They DID, however, give me a lot of free paper tubes...

The banks around where we used to live (just moved and haven't been
in a bank here) have coin counters for customer use. At least the CU
didn't "guard" it so anyone could walk in and use it. My wife took
several zip-lock bags of pennies the kid left behind, recently. She
took the $80something and put it in her account.

> The Coinstar machines here have NEVER not charged a fee.

Don't think I've ever seen one. Maybe because the bank's are free.

> OTOH, I indeed will profit from aluminum-can and plastic-bottle arbitrage
> when I turn them in -- I'd collected many pounds of them before they raised
> the CRV.

;-) A friend had his SO's son take back his cans a while back. He
grabbed over $80. I kid the friend that those were only his Bud cans
for one weekend. The friend at one time had some thing like $35K in
quarters and SBAs. He lived off them for over a year.

--
Keith

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black Friday scams
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/d88b4ca08eaef9f9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:39 pm
From: krw

In article <r_l4j.624$Mb.486@newsfe07.lga>, bashley101
+usenet@gmail.com says...
> Steve wrote:
>
> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:
> >>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
> >>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
> >>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
> >
> > I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
> > to show ya...
>
> I know somebody who used to switch price tags at the Goodwill store.

You've *got* to be kidding. Does he take money out of the Salvation
Army kettles when the ringers aren't looking too?

--
Keith

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:39 pm
From: krw

In article <DZl4j.615$Mb.114@newsfe07.lga>, bashley101
+usenet@gmail.com says...
> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
>
> > Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
> > want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
> > not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
>
> So you don't want to give a nice practical gift that might make you look
> cheap? Do you think that your friends and relatives will think less of you
> because you look for bargains? What other inadequacies do you possess that
> you fear others will discover? Just lie down on that couch and tell me
> about your mother...

Just give the rebate receipt with the gift. Let them claim the
rebate too. That'll show 'em how generous you really are! ;-)

--
Keith

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 4:51 pm
From: The Real Bev

krw wrote:

> bashley101+usenet@gmail.com says...
>> Steve wrote:
>> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
>> >>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
>> >>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
>> >
>> > I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
>> > to show ya...
>>
>> I know somebody who used to switch price tags at the Goodwill store.
>
> You've *got* to be kidding. Does he take money out of the Salvation
> Army kettles when the ringers aren't looking too?

Of course not, that would have been dishonest.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 7:02 pm
From: krw

In article <Lkn4j.109$eb7.38@newsfe05.lga>, bashley101
+usenet@gmail.com says...
> krw wrote:
>
> > bashley101+usenet@gmail.com says...
> >> Steve wrote:
> >> > "Evelyn C. Leeper" <eleeper@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> >>Has anyone mentioned that the rebates are also pretty useless if you
> >> >>want to give the item as a gift? (I don't know about you, but I would
> >> >>not feel right about giving a gift with the UPC code cut out!)
> >> >
> >> > I've seen people cut the UPC off another box in the store. Just goes
> >> > to show ya...
> >>
> >> I know somebody who used to switch price tags at the Goodwill store.
> >
> > You've *got* to be kidding. Does he take money out of the Salvation
> > Army kettles when the ringers aren't looking too?
>
> Of course not, that would have been dishonest.
>
Um, er, I guess I hadn't thought of that aspect. <sheesh>

--
Keith

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surf and browse the web anonymously at school and work!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/e0ba09019c0d3764?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 5:42 pm
From: urprx.info@gmail.com

Surf and browse the web anonymously at school and work!

Browse the internet securely using urprx.info. You can unblock popular
social networking

sites such as MySpace, Bebo, Facebook, YouTube, Orkut, Friendster and
many other sites. Feel

free to browse 24/7 and don't forget to tell your friends!

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Enjoy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where did the 400 billion USD in subprime mortgage losses go
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/4b5ad94e9eb8e056?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 5:46 pm
From: "mich"

FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
> mich <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote
>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote

>>>>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that sold at
>>>>> the top have the money.

>>>> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the large
>>>> oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with
>>>> those
>>>> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.

>>> What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the top?
>>> This totally answers the OP's original question as to where the
>>> money went. It doesn't just vaporize.

>> The seller of the $300 000 house has $300 000 in cash.

>> The buyer had a $300 000 house that's only worth $250 000.

> So what? That is an "unrealized" loss of $50K if the buyer hangs on to
> it. In five years or so the house might be worth $350K for an unrealized
> gain of $50K on the worth of the house. If the buyer defaults and the
> bank losses the $50K, the seller is the one who has the real money gain
> that the bank lost.

The question is where did the money go. The buyer of the house has a house
that is worth $50 000 less than what he paid. Accept the facts and move on.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 6:07 pm
From: "FrediFizzx"

"mich" <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote in message
news:j7o4j.29906$By5.104328@wagner.videotron.net...
>
> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>> mich <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote
>>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>>>>>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that
>>>>>> sold at the top have the money.
>
>>>>> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the
>>>>> large
>>>>> oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults with
>>>>> those
>>>>> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.
>
>>>> What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the
>>>> top?
>>>> This totally answers the OP's original question as to where the
>>>> money went. It doesn't just vaporize.
>
>>> The seller of the $300 000 house has $300 000 in cash.
>
>>> The buyer had a $300 000 house that's only worth $250 000.
>
>> So what? That is an "unrealized" loss of $50K if the buyer hangs on
>> to it. In five years or so the house might be worth $350K for an
>> unrealized gain of $50K on the worth of the house. If the buyer
>> defaults and the bank losses the $50K, the seller is the one who has
>> the real money gain that the bank lost.
>
> The question is where did the money go. The buyer of the house has a
> house that is worth $50 000 less than what he paid. Accept the facts
> and move on.

Please learn the difference between "unrealized" and "realized" gains
and losses. If you can't see that the seller got the money the bank
lost when the buyer defaulted, then there is not much more help I can
offer and my work here is done.

Fred

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 8:00 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

mich <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote
> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>> mich <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote
>>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote

>>>>>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that> sold at the top have the money.

>>>>> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the large oversupply of houses that are the result
>>>>> of mortgage defaults with those> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first place.

>>>> What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the
>>>> top? This totally answers the OP's original question as to where
>>>> the money went. It doesn't just vaporize.
>
>>> The seller of the $300 000 house has $300 000 in cash.
>
>>> The buyer had a $300 000 house that's only worth $250 000.
>
>> So what? That is an "unrealized" loss of $50K if the buyer hangs on
>> to it. In five years or so the house might be worth $350K for an
>> unrealized gain of $50K on the worth of the house. If the buyer
>> defaults and the bank losses the $50K, the seller is the one who has
>> the real money gain that the bank lost.

> The question is where did the money go.

And he clearly claimed at the top that its still out there.
Not necessarily when the entire market sags.

> The buyer of the house has a house that is worth $50 000 less than what he paid.

And the seller may well have bought another more expensive house with the
proceeds of the sale, and has ALSO lost even more than that in value too.

> Accept the facts and move on.

No thanks, I'll keep rubbing your noses in the fact that his original is just plain wrong.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 8:03 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "mich" <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote in message
> news:j7o4j.29906$By5.104328@wagner.videotron.net...
>>
>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>>> mich <copkat@vidotron.cr> wrote
>>>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> FrediFizzx <fredifizzx@hotmail.com> wrote
>>
>>>>>>> Good example. The money is still out there. The people that
>>>>>>> sold at the top have the money.
>>
>>>>>> No they dont when the whole market drops significantly due to the
>>>>>> large
>>>>>> oversupply of houses that are the result of mortgage defaults
>>>>>> with those
>>>>>> who should never have been given that mortgage in the first
>>>>>> place.
>>
>>>>> What the heck does that have to do with people that sold at the
>>>>> top?
>>>>> This totally answers the OP's original question as to where the
>>>>> money went. It doesn't just vaporize.
>>
>>>> The seller of the $300 000 house has $300 000 in cash.
>>
>>>> The buyer had a $300 000 house that's only worth $250 000.
>>
>>> So what? That is an "unrealized" loss of $50K if the buyer hangs on
>>> to it. In five years or so the house might be worth $350K for an
>>> unrealized gain of $50K on the worth of the house. If the buyer
>>> defaults and the bank losses the $50K, the seller is the one who has
>>> the real money gain that the bank lost.
>>
>> The question is where did the money go. The buyer of the house has a
>> house that is worth $50 000 less than what he paid. Accept the facts
>> and move on.

> Please learn the difference between "unrealized" and "realized" gains and losses.

Not relevant to what is being discussed.

> If you can't see that the seller got the money the bank lost when the buyer defaulted,

That isnt necessarily true when the seller will usually spend that money on a new
more expensive house and will suffer even more of a loss than the original buyer lost.

> then there is not much more help I can offer

You've never managed to grasp the basics, so you never ever had anything to offer.

> and my work here is done.

Nope, you've been done, like a dinner.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Only 30k miles from tires?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a84bf58bf2c23f50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 1 2007 7:14 pm
From: Gordon

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in news:L8-
dncbpGKul1szanZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@comcast.com:

>>
>> Because the front tires take most of the braking and acceleration.
>> it isn't just rotation that wears out tires. On a front wheel drive
>> car the front tires work very hard.
>
> I know that front tires wear quicker especially on front wheel drive.
> But the car has 4 tires and there is a net amount of wear no matter
> where the tires are installed. My question was how is there a reduction
> in net wear by not doing rotation?
>
>

I'm not sure. Your logic would seem to make sense. But my practical
experience suggests other wise. I tend to get 3X the life out of a
tire on the rear, but the life of the front tires isn't reduced by 3X.
What I generally do is; Start with 4 new tires. Replace the two front
tires when they wear out. When those wear out, put new tires on rear
and rotate rear tires to the front for the durration of their life.

One explanation is that the rear tires are now "aged" and have
gotten harder, thus they now wear longer.

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Saturday, December 1, 2007

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