Frugal Living: 25 new messages in 10 topics

Sunday, June 8, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just Canceled Cable TV
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/6cd6ada4aaa4d5bc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:24 am
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:
>
>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by
>> watching Disney right now.
>
> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...

If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:26 am
From: jnh@VictorTangoEleven.net.invalid (Jordan Hazen)

In article <MPG.22b4f7d9762d5ba2989a6e@chi.news.speakeasy.net>,
Mark Anderson <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:
[...]
>I've been debating whether or not to get the digital to analog
>converter. I've seen them around here being sold for $60 plus tax
>which is more like $67 all day in Crook County Illinois. The
>government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why I should fork over
>$27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all day. By giving
>out these coupons the government basically allowed the converter box
>companies to jack their prices up another $40. Another corporate
>welfare program but I digress.

There's more inside those boxes than you might think-- ATSC tuner,
MPEG2 decoder, frame buffer, downsampler, NTSC signal generator, RF
modulator, power supply, and a small embedded computer to manage it
all... basically everything that a digital TV requires, plus a few
extra bits for the analog output, but minus an actual display.

Their complexity is roughly equal to a low-end satellite receiver or
digital cable box.

Out of curiosity, how much do the cheapest set-top DVB-T to PAL
converters sell for in Europe? e.g. Freeview boxes in the UK? Anyone
know? After accounting for exchange rate differences, this might be a
good proxy for an unsubsidized ATSC converter's price.
--
Jordan.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:27 am
From: The Real Bev

val189 wrote:

> On Jun 7, 1:51 pm, timeOday <timeOday-UNS...@theknack.net> wrote:
>
>> Heck, for the money I saved, I could go to a concert every month.
>
> Or wet your gas tank a bit.
>
>> Anyways, I struck my blow for frugality this month.
>
> Congrats for taking a stand and cutting back. What's next to go?

We did it long ago, and every time the cable company raises internet
rates I call up and rant and they give me the old rate for another 6
months.

How difficult that is depends on the individual you talk to. If the
person seems extraordinarily obstinate, hang up (while you're talking,
of course) and call back in 5 minutes. Sooner or later you'll get lucky.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:31 am
From: The Real Bev

barlow@amnia.com wrote:

> timeOday wrote:
>> BeaForoni@msn.com wrote:
>>> Frugal movie watching can be found at Red Box. Instant gratification
>>> and cheap at redbox.com . I down graded my cable and the movies I
>>> watch are more current then the cable movie channels.
>>
>> Redbox is a good service. My only problem is it ends up costing us
>> about $5 / movie because we never, ever manage to return them on time.
>> That's why I'm thinking netflix might be better for us.
>
> That is why I prefer Netfix. I have one movie that has been sitting on
> the tv for two weeks with no late fee when I return it.

Your actual cost per movie depends on how quickly you watch and return
the movies. Your scheme makes sense only if you have the
one-movie-per-month plan, and not much even then.

We got our Netflix cost down to less than a buck a movie, but we had to
work at it. Not pleasant, which sort of defeats the purpose.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 9:39 am
From: The Real Bev

Mark Anderson wrote:

> ...The government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why
> I should fork over $27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all
> day.

Walmart has them for $50. That's a just-in-case price.

> By giving out these coupons the government basically allowed the
> converter box companies to jack their prices up another $40.

Maybe not that much; I can't imagine buying anything like that for only
$10. Hard to even find cables for $10 (assuming you use only the
ordinary sources :-) ).

> Another
> corporate welfare program but I digress. I'm seriously debating just
> chucking the boob tube and the VCR, which hasn't been touched in a
> decade, onto freecycle and be done with it.

DVD recorders are way handier than VCRs.

> That said, Netflix is great and I watch all the DVDs on my computer
> monitor, a 22" LCD screen.

The problem with that is dark movies are pretty much unwatchable. I
also like to curl up on the couch, and that doesn't work very well.

--
Cheers, Bev
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please hassle me, I thrive on stress.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:17 am
From: Dennis

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:54:36 -0500, Mark Anderson
<mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:

>I cancelled cable in 1992 and have never looked back. The only shows I
>watch with rabbit ears now are Lost and the Simpsons so my TV won't even
>be turned on again until perhaps some Sunday in late September. Lost
>won't start up again until next year.

Lost episodes are available online at http://abc.go.com.

Quite good
video quality and you only have to put up with 3 or 4 30-second
comercials. You can even start/stop/pause/replay the video like a
PVR.

Dennis (evil)
--
I'm a hands-on, footloose, knee-jerk head case. -George Carlin

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:22 am
From: Logan Shaw

The Real Bev wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote:

>>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by
>>> watching Disney right now.
>>
>> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...
>
> If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

Going off on this tangent, a friend was telling me about a plan that
an elderly relative of his had. There was a facility in his area of
town that is both a retirement home and a nursing home: if you can
take care of yourself pretty well, you live in an apartment in one
wing (with a living room, a kitchen, etc.). If you ever reach the
point where you can't, you move to a room in the other wing. So a
group of friends got together and they hatched the plan of all moving
to the same place when they got ready to do that.

The advantage of this plan is that while it's a bummer to move out of
a house you've been in for decades, etc., etc., at least it's compensated
for by the fact that you're moving to a place where you already know
a bunch of people. And if you ever have to go to the nursing home side,
there are people in your social circle who might just check in and say
hello every now and then, because they live in the same building. So
you stand a chance of getting more than just visits from family members.

For all I know, this is not really that new an idea, but I thought it
was a neat way to make living in a retirement community a lot more fun
than it could be otherwise.

- Logan

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:35 am
From: "Rod Speed"

The Real Bev <bashley101+usenet@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote

>>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by watching Disney right now.

>> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...

> If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

Tell that to my neighbour's dad.

Bit hard tho, the nursing home just killed him, quite literally.

Gave him his minimal meds, just the low dose asprin, and the meds
for the schitzo in the next room. He only lasted a day after that.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:42 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote
> The Real Bev wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> timeOday <timeOday-UNSPAM@theknack.net> wrote

>>>> My kids are bracing themselves for the disconnect tomorrow by watching Disney right now.

>>> Guess who will be picking your nursing home...

>> If you can't make the choice yourself, you won't care.

> Going off on this tangent, a friend was telling me about a plan that
> an elderly relative of his had. There was a facility in his area of
> town that is both a retirement home and a nursing home: if you can take care of yourself pretty well, you live in an
> apartment in one wing (with a living room, a kitchen, etc.). If you ever reach the point where you can't, you move to
> a room in the other wing.

My dad picked one of those himself.

Didnt work out the way it was meant to tho, once he got bad enough
to need the nursing home, there werent any beds available in it. He
ended up in one on the other side of the country, where my sister lives.

> So a group of friends got together and they hatched the plan of all moving to the same place when they got ready to do
> that.

> The advantage of this plan is that while it's a bummer to move out of a house you've been in for decades, etc., etc.,
> at least it's compensated for by the fact that you're moving to a place where you already know a bunch of people. And
> if you ever have to go to the nursing home side, there are people in your social circle who might just check in and
> say hello every now and then, because they live in the same building. So you stand a chance of getting more than just
> visits from family members.

It doesnt necessarily work out as planned tho.

> For all I know, this is not really that new an idea,

Yep, been around for decades now.

> but I thought it was a neat way to make living in a retirement community a lot more fun than it could be otherwise.

Dunno, a nursing home with visits from people you know doesnt appeal to me at all.

I'll be pulling the plug before it ends up like that.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:45 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Jordan Hazen <jnh@VictorTangoEleven.net.invalid> wrote:
> In article <MPG.22b4f7d9762d5ba2989a6e@chi.news.speakeasy.net>,
> Mark Anderson <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> I've been debating whether or not to get the digital to analog
>> converter. I've seen them around here being sold for $60 plus tax
>> which is more like $67 all day in Crook County Illinois. The
>> government coupon is only $40 so I'm wondering why I should fork over
>> $27 for a box that can't be worth more than $25 all day. By giving
>> out these coupons the government basically allowed the converter box
>> companies to jack their prices up another $40. Another corporate
>> welfare program but I digress.

> There's more inside those boxes than you might think-- ATSC tuner,
> MPEG2 decoder, frame buffer, downsampler, NTSC signal generator,
> RF modulator, power supply, and a small embedded computer to
> manage it all... basically everything that a digital TV requires, plus
> a few extra bits for the analog output, but minus an actual display.

> Their complexity is roughly equal to a low-end satellite receiver or digital cable box.

> Out of curiosity, how much do the cheapest set-top DVB-T to PAL
> converters sell for in Europe? e.g. Freeview boxes in the UK? Anyone know?

The Australian ones are typically $30 class money.

> After accounting for exchange rate differences, this might
> be a good proxy for an unsubsidized ATSC converter's price.

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:18 pm
From: The Real Bev

Dennis wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 20:54:36 -0500, Mark Anderson
> <mea@nospambrandylion.com> wrote:
>
>>I cancelled cable in 1992 and have never looked back. The only shows I
>>watch with rabbit ears now are Lost and the Simpsons so my TV won't even
>>be turned on again until perhaps some Sunday in late September. Lost
>>won't start up again until next year.
>
> Lost episodes are available online at http://abc.go.com.

Quite good
> video quality and you only have to put up with 3 or 4 30-second
> comercials. You can even start/stop/pause/replay the video like a
> PVR.

Or you can record them onto the DVR's HD or DVD off the air and then
watch them all at once skipping over the commercials. Much more
enjoyable -- you don't have to keep saying "Huh? Where did HE come from?"

When continuity counts, watching one episode per week is unsatisfactory.

--
Cheers, Bev
===========================================
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sometimes it just doesn't work
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/9ad81274179c279d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:27 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:53:45 -0500, Derald <derald@invalid.net> wrote:

>hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>I wish. However....
> Harry, I *live* "in the country", too, and have done for many
>years; it ain't necessarily so;-)....

Yeah, not always. But ever since last year, when I let some thistle
head, I've been having more of them come up. A neighbor's field
hasn't been cut for a few years, and the sage grass there is a real
problem, since it catches fire easily, cattle don't care for it, and
it is trying to seed over here.

I've been keeping an eye out on pastured land around the area, and
some of it is gorgeous, while some is weedy and pretty ratty. I've
got plenty of acrage that is wild and I'm not trying to keep more than
about an acre or so under tight control. However, I am going to have
to address the problems in my fields before the boxwood and trash
trees get established.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:30 am
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:54:37 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
<MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:

>Good points, but you got by nicely for over 15 years with that old
>mower. Has something changed?

Maybe the move from a suburban and sandy area in south Florida to the
chert loaded country of north Alabama? :-)

>I was unfamiliar with the bush hog design. That does sound better
>long term.

I'm hoping so.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:34 am
From: Dennis

On Sun, 08 Jun 2008 08:44:44 -0600, hchickpea@hotmail.com wrote:

>DW and I were talking over the situation last night and this morning.
>In pointing out the differences between a tractor and bush hog and a
>riding mower, I suddenly remembered that bush hogs have a shear bolt
>that breaks to protect the tractor motor from sudden stoppages of the
>blades. Riding mowers have a direct belt drive to the mower deck and
>no protection from those piston rod jarring stops. Hitting the cable
>end and breaking the mandrel likely started the damage on the latest
>engine, and the load of cutting heavy grass finished the job.

Yep, I've taken out the shear bolt on my brush hog several times.
It's a $0.75 bolt versus a $400 transmission on the brush hog. Keep a
couple on hand! (Be sure to get the proper soft bolt -- no grade 8
hardened steel. :-)

>I can't think of a way to include a shear or cotter or slip-clutch on
>the mower deck without some serious welding and re-engineering, and
>belly mowers are a pain to work on anyway. I'm thinking I need to
>re-evaluate options and find the right tool for the job. Using a
>screwdriver as a cold chisel and breaking it is cheap. Doing the same
>with a mower is not.

I looked and shopped and tried to work around buying a tractor and
brush hog for several years. Then I resigned myself to making the
investment. Even buying second hand is expensive. But after having
the tractor (i.e., the right tool) for a little while, I kicked myself
for not jumping in sooner. It is a major work saver. Mine is a John
Deere compact diesel 4WD model with a front bucket. I picked up the
brush hog mower new (on sale at a local independent dealer) and a used
tiller. I have never regretted any of these purchases.

I'm currently chopping up an old pickup to use as a trailer behind the
tractor. I've got lots of firewood to haul.

Dennis (evil)
--
The honest man is the one who realizes that he cannot
consume more, in his lifetime, than he produces.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turn that cell phone charger off!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/08c4c18e7cebc41e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:12 am
From: Logan Shaw

George wrote:
> Whats the nuisance part? You need to make two connections (one to the
> phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it.

I measured my cell phone charger's current draw both with and without the
phone attached. The energy usage when the cell phone isn't plugged in is
negligible. Therefore, I leave the charger plugged in to the wall all the
time. The other end sits on top of my dresser where I keep my keys, wallet,
cell phone, coins, iPod, etc.

> And it really
> isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a power supply before
> energizing the power supply.

It's not a very user-friendly design. Flexibility is valuable. Rigid
restrictions when those restrictions aren't required from a technical
point of view (as evidenced by the fact that competing products don't
have the restriction) do not make for a very good design.

- Logan

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:50 am
From: "Rod Speed"

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
> The Real Bev wrote
>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote

>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the cell phone and *then* into the wall, rather than vice
>>> versa.

>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to explain just why THEIRS is different from everybody
>> else's.

>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a difference.
>>> (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse order could blow the fuse in it, while the right way around never
>>> did.)

> Whats the nuisance part?

Having to keep plugging and unplugging from the mains.

> You need to make two connections (one to the phone and one to the AC outlet) however you look at it.

You can leave it plugged into the wall and just plug it
into the phone when the phone needs to be charged.

> And it really isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a power supply before energizing the power supply.

But completely routine to design it so you dont have to.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:15 pm
From: The Real Bev

Rod Speed wrote:

> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote
>> The Real Bev wrote
>>> Evelyn C. Leeper wrote
>
>>>> My cell phone instructions say to plug the charger into the
>>>> cell phone and *then* into the wall, rather than vice versa.
>
>>> Samsung? A real nuisance, and it would have been nice of them to
>>> explain just why THEIRS is different from everybody else's.
>
>>>> Even though this sounds bizarre, in fact there can be a
>>>> difference. (In London, plugging a CPAP unit in in reverse
>>>> order could blow the fuse in it, while the right way around
>>>> never did.)
>
>> Whats the nuisance part?
>
> Having to keep plugging and unplugging from the mains.

And having to find the charger when you can't remember where you put it
2 weeks ago.

>> You need to make two connections (one to the phone and one to the
>> AC outlet) however you look at it.
>
> You can leave it plugged into the wall and just plug it into the
> phone when the phone needs to be charged.

Pay attention. For some reason Samsung doesn't want you to do that and
I'm not willing to risk letting all the smoke out just because their
design is less than optimal. Having to buy another phone is even less
optimal.

>> And it really isn't a technically bad idea to connect a load to a
>> power supply before energizing the power supply.
>
> But completely routine to design it so you dont have to.

Exactly. Too bad they didn't.

--
Cheers, Bev
===========================================
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FS: Gemstone jewelry, Bali silver jewelry & art - Ending today, VERY
LOW PRICES!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/04ae18f4aa09c778?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:15 am
From: Jewelry by Yael

I have over 60 auctions that are ending today. Beautiful gemstone
jewelry, mermaid art & Bali silver jewelry (Harmony balls). A lot of
auctions starting at just $9.99! Visit:
http://stores.ebay.com/Orions-Online-Fleamarket_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ0QQftidZ2QQtZkm
There is definitely something for everyone! I also have about 150
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my other items that I have for sale. For additional savings you can
take advantage of my combined shipping policy.
Thank you!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gasoline "Boycott": The Next Generation
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/7b5aa5d3dc9c38b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:29 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Starrfleat@gmail.com wrote

> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.

The comments on them certainly have.

> Despite every official story told, prices came down soon
> enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better
> mileage during the gasoline shortages of the 1970's.

That aint what happened.

> One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would
> be to ride the bus to work every weekday.

And that would have no effect on world oil prices, essentially because
US consumption is only a small part of the world consumption.

> You could still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc.,
> but if a substantial number of the populace rode the bus, this
> would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil conglomerates.

Nope.

> The sooner, the better, but doing this for the month of
> July would provide a good hook for you, and others.

And would make no difference to the price of oil, you watch.

> And, if you do this, write letters to the ceo's
> of all oil companies and auto manufacturers.

And they will just file them in their round filing cabinets under their desks.

> Tell them that you can no longer afford to drive, due to outrageous gas prices.

And they will realise that that is a lie when they look at the traffic on the roads.

> Don't accept heinous solutions like drilling in Alaska or other American nature
> preserves, since there isn't enough oil there for a month of use, anyway.

Pig ignorant lie.

> Existing oil fields haven't been updated in 20 years.

Because they have been exploited.

> Tell them to come up with better solutions than ethanol,

Sorry, fresh out of magic wands to wave.

> which only raises food prices while doing nothing for the environment.

Pig ignorant lie.

> Just to play hardball, write some letters to congress,
> ceo's of Disney, Six Flags/Magic Mountain, Walmart, etc.

They wont even bother to read them.

> Tell them the above, and that, with outrageous gas
> prices, you won't be doing any summer vacationing.

Fat lot of good that will do when they dont even bother to read them.

> The economic hit is causing you to shop thrift shops and garage sales exclusively.

They wouldnt believe that lie, even if they were stupid enough to read your letter.

> And, unless gas prices get very close to a dollar a gallon
> (you're playing HARD ball, remember) your family will observe
> Christmas by exchanging homemade Christmas cards!

MUCH more effective to set fire to yourself outside their HQ. They wont be able to ignore that so easily.

> And, again, don't buy off on b.s. solutions like a gas tax holiday.
> Pass this idea to friends and relatives, and throughout the internet.

Go and fuck yourself.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:22 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article
<7a758f70-eaef-4736-af2b-78804ec490ed@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Starrfleat@gmail.com wrote:

> Obviously, gasoline prices have gotten asinine.

Not at all. The price of gas in the United States is still a bargain.
Most Americans have become spoiled by unrealistically low gas prices.

> Despite every official
> story told, prices came down
> soon enough when Americans turned to foreign cars with better mileage
> during the gasoline shortages
> of the 1970's.
> One of the easiest ways to "boycott" would be to ride the bus to
> work every weekday. You could
> still use your car on weekends for shopping, etc., but if a
> substantial number of the populace rode the
> bus, this would put a lot of pressure on the multinational oil
> conglomerates. The sooner, the better, but
> doing this for the month of July would provide a good hook for you,
> and others.

The American automobile companies are finally getting a clue. They are
cutting back on manufacturing huge gas guzzling SUVs and ramping up
development and production of economical automobiles. Finally. Japan's
been doing it for at least a decade.

As you suggested, those who can't afford more expensive gas should
simply use public transportation, walk, bike, and combine trips in order
to reduce their gas consumption ... like people in most other countries
have been doing for decades.

Gas company CEOs have one responsibility; to maximize profit. They
couldn't care less about who can afford to buy gas as long as they show
reasonable profit growth for their shareholders. Complaining to the CEO
of Exxon about high gas prices is a complete waste of time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Kardaanivetoiset fillarit
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/a3698e4496c8e0a5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 11:47 am
From: Rauno

Wikipedia
_____________

2/ Käytetyn ydinpolttoaineen huollon vaihtoehdot.

KTM Energiaosaston virallista julkaisumateriaalia.
10/1999 OY EDITA AB
Markku Anttila
Mikael Björnberg
Seppo Vuori
_____________

Ydinvoimalaitosten polttoainekierron suunnittelun lähtökohtana pidettiin
aluksi yleisesti periaatetta, jossa halkeamiskelpoisten aineiden
mahdollisimman tehokkaan hyväksikäytön takaamiseksi uraanin lisäksi myös
reaktorissa syntyvä PLUTONIUM kierrätetään polttoaineena. Käytetyn
polttoaineen jälleenkäsittely on olennainen osa tällaista suljettua
polttoainekiertoa.

*Keskeisin sanoma tässä on se, miksi jo Anne Holmlundille TVO esitti OL-3
hankestartianomuksessaan, että vuoteen 2020 mennessä jo n. 20% maailman
ydinvoimaloista kerrottiin perustuvan tulevaisuuden PLUTONIUMPOLTTOSYSTEEMIN
mukaanottoon! OL-3 laitos on tämän uudenlaisen plutoniumvoiman
esitaistelijaksi jo alkujaan tieten suunniteltu. Siitä huolimatta, ettei
plutoniumpolttoa maasamme nykylain edes sallita. Siitä huolimatta, että
puhtaana ydinaseaineena tarkoin kontroloitu tappavantuhoisana syytää 1000
kertaa säteilevämpää ydinjätettä 10 kertaa nykyreaktoritiloja
säteilevämpänä, Ja koko tuotantotapaa ei sallita kuin ainoastaan
NATO-maissa! Vaan annetaan tämän tarkoin julkisuudesta poissa pidetyn
valtion salausarkiston OY EDITA AB jatkaa sanomaansa.

Jo ydintekniikan alkuajoista tiedettiin tarve huolehtia ydinjätteistä, mutta
suunittelu jätettiin kesken. Tämä raportti on katsaus uusimpiin tutkimuksiin
aiheesta. Vaihtoehtoina runsasaktiivisten ydinjätteitten tai käytetyn
ydinpolttoaineen sijoittamiselle esitettiin seuraavia:

* Lähettäminen avaruuteen.
* Hautaaminen napajäähän.
* Tuhoaminen ja kiinteyttäminen kallioperän sisään maanalaisten
ydinräjähdysten avulla.
* Laimentaminen valtameriin.
* Upottaminen kapseloituna syvien valtamerialtaiden pohjasedimenttiin.
* Sijoittaminen kapseloituna erittäin syviin reikiin kallioperässä.
(Ruotsin peruttua Posivapelleilyt epäonnistuneina turvaa nyttemmin tähän!)
* Loppusijoitus kapseloituna kallioperään muutaman sadan metrin syvyyteen.

Ensimmäiset 4, luotettavuusongelmaisvaaraa. 3 seuraavaa samaa, mutta
vähemmän. Valtamerisedimentti -80 luvulla OECD ydinenergiajärjestöpiirissä
selvitys (NEA 1988) todettu teknisesti toteuttamiskelpoiseksi,
ympäristöhaitat erittäin alhaiset. Samoin ihmistunkeutumisriskit pienet.
Palautusmahdollisuus plutoniumpolttoon pienet. Poliittinen vastustustettu
jätteen upotuksena meriin, kansainvälisin sopimuksin kielletty. Perusmallin
ohella selvitetään sekä syviin pystyreikiin että pitkiin vaakasuoriin
reikiin tapahtuvaa loppusijoittamista (Juhlin ym. 1998, SKB 1992).
Mainittuja kolmea kallioupotuksia pidetään teknisesti luotettavuudeltaan
suunilleen samana. Syväporautusjätteen palautusta pidetään huomattavasti
vaikeampana.

*Kuten huomaamme TVO/Posiva kaavailee kaikissa toimissaan siihen, että
maasamme aletaan NATO-jäsenyyden turvin käsitelemään maailmanlaajuisesti
tuotua ydinjätettä. Tällaisien haahuilujen esteenä ei näytä olevan 1000
kertaistuvat ydinsaastajätteet vuosimiljooniksi maaperäämme, ei
ydinvoimaloittemme muuttuminen 10 kertaa ympäristölleen tuhoisammin
säteilysyytäväksi. Ei edes se, että näin maamme joutuu ammattimaisten
ydinasemateriaalivarkaiden polttopisteeseen. Edes se, että näin tuotettu
ydinvoima on vähintään taas 2,5 kertaa myös nykyistä kalliimpaa. Vaikka
kansa vastustaa hankkeeseen elimellisesti kuluvia massiivisia saotilaalisia
NATO-kontrolerreja ja massiivisia jäsenmaksuja. Ei tunnu puuhamiehiä
haittaavan edes se, etttä naapurimaista näin starttaavat ydinasehankkeemme
on julistettu jo nyt niin varoitellen vaarallisiksi. On hiuskarvan varassa
ettei sotaa jo sytytä!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oil Boycott: Non oil based products?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/c81559a594ac920c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 12:08 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Bill <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Seems to me both manufacturers of products and consumers are fed up with these high oil prices. I think the
> manufacturers would like to get away from oil based materials if possible.

Pity it aint possible for anything like the same price.

> Maybe consumers can help them do this by buying non-oil based products when available...

Only if they are actually stupid enough to pay a lot more for it.

> So the question: What products can I buy at the store which are not oil based

Fuck all apart from basic food and even that has had lots of oil used in its production.

> nor have oil based packaging?

There's still quite a bit of packaging that uses paper/cardboard, but a lot of oil was
used in its production too, and even more to move the packaged product around.

> What do I look for?

Some old hemp or cotton rope, hang yourself with it.

> I did find this on the internet...
> http://www.greenhome.com

Completely useless.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get remaining liquid out of containers...
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/0d0fe996d9500468?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:15 pm
From: Shawn Hirn

In article <6at0i7F380611U1@mid.individual.net>,
"Bill" <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

> For liquid laundry soap, use pliers to pull the inner spout out, then the
> remaining liquid can be poured out. If you use a laundromat, leave pliers in
> your car for this.
>
> For liquid chocolate to make chocolate milk, pour a little milk in the
> container and shake well to get the remaining chocolate out.
>
> For barbecue sauce, pour in a little water and shake.
>
> For applesauce, leave lid on and bang on counter upside down.
>
> Then for other liquids, leave container upside down when near empty.

For all those items, when they get near empty, I simply place the
container up side down for a few hours before I need to use the last of
its contents. The contents always pours out easily. No tools or special
effort is needed.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gasoline breaks through $4.00 a gallon
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/bb94fea1c432a5b3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:30 pm
From: Al Bundy

Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jun 2008 07:44:14 -0700 (PDT), Al Bundy
> <MSfortune@mcpmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Paul M. Eldridge wrote:
> >> According to the AAA, the U.S. national average for regular unleaded
> >> now exceeds $4.00 a gallon.
> >
> >Thank you for this timely news Paul.
> >What can you tell us about summer? Will it be hot?
>
> Yes, it will be, especially under the collar. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Paul

Ever since I was a kid, I enjoyed Good Humor.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: build your own auto trailer
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/browse_thread/thread/520c5580f399639a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jun 8 2008 1:31 pm
From: phil scott

On Jun 5, 4:16 pm, JustMe <generalordertwentyf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I need to haul maybe 800 lbs of junk (books mostly, also some
> computers and misc) from a storage unit about 200 miles away. I'd like
> to build a quick and dirty trailer for the job. Anyone know of plans I
> can download for nuthin? Thanks.

rent one from U haul, make the round trip in one day., it will be
cheaper...for the cheapest rental try craigs list.

==============================================================================

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Frugal Living

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Sunday, June 8, 2008

25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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