Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 12 topics

Friday, December 12, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When is it polite to use the word "stingy"?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/cba5dbae9d5357b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Dec 11 2008 11:54 pm
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

On Dec 12, 1:49 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> lenona...@yahoo.com wrote
>
> > (I posted the following at the alt.fan.miss-manners
> > newsgroup, but it wasn't as productive as I'd hoped.)
> > That is, it seems to me that all too often, those who describe a
> > person or organization as "stingy" are just being pushy and grabby.
>
> Neither of those are anything like stingy.

I think you're confusing the accuser with the accusee.

Lenona.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 1:17 am
From: "Bill"

I wouldn't say calling someone "stingy" would ever be "polite"! In my book,
saying positive things or neutral things would be the polite thing to do.

So far as what I would call stingy would be when someone have extra money
they don't need for anything. I mean a LOT of money, and then they don't pay
their fair share of something or don't pay what is expected of them. Like a
tip for example. Say they have millions of dollars and tip 5% instead of the
customary 10 to 15%. Or try to cheat an employee out of his pay.

<lenona321@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> (I posted the following at the alt.fan.miss-manners newsgroup, but it
> wasn't as productive as I'd hoped.)
>
>
> That is, it seems to me that all too often, those who describe a
> person or organization as "stingy" are just being pushy and grabby.
>
> After all, it's not "rude" for parents to give only the basics of
> food, clothing, shelter and school supplies to their kids, especially
> since they might be simply trying to encourage their kids to work for
> what they want, so what real right do kids have even to THINK of their
> parents as stingy?
>
> Now, if we're talking about struggling homeless people and what
> they're not getting in terms of government help, that's different.
>
> Otherwise, I'm not sure it's really an acceptable word.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.miss-manners/browse_thread/thread/2f8ebdb500fc2f8b#
> (semi-productive thread that followed this question)
>
> Follow-up question:
>
> OK, so I guess my question now is, what are the general rules about
> when is it fair/polite to use a pejorative to describe someone's
> controlled spending habits?
>
>
> Lenona.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 2:39 am
From: Clisby

lenona321@yahoo.com wrote:
> (I posted the following at the alt.fan.miss-manners newsgroup, but it
> wasn't as productive as I'd hoped.)
>
>
> That is, it seems to me that all too often, those who describe a
> person or organization as "stingy" are just being pushy and grabby.
>
> After all, it's not "rude" for parents to give only the basics of
> food, clothing, shelter and school supplies to their kids, especially
> since they might be simply trying to encourage their kids to work for
> what they want, so what real right do kids have even to THINK of their
> parents as stingy?

This has nothing to do with rudeness or politeness. Parents might or
might not provide adequately for their children, but that's not a matter
of etiquette. And children, like everyone else, have the unlimited
right to THINK anything they like.

>
> Now, if we're talking about struggling homeless people and what
> they're not getting in terms of government help, that's different.
>
> Otherwise, I'm not sure it's really an acceptable word.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.miss-manners/browse_thread/thread/2f8ebdb500fc2f8b#
> (semi-productive thread that followed this question)
>
> Follow-up question:
>
> OK, so I guess my question now is, what are the general rules about
> when is it fair/polite to use a pejorative to describe someone's
> controlled spending habits?
>

Fair and polite don't necessarily go hand in hand. If it's true, it's
fair to say it. It might be horribly rude. I don't see why "stingy"
is different from any other pejorative - unless you're using it jokingly
to refer to yourself or someone near and dear who will also think it's
funny - don't.

>
> Lenona.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 8:01 am
From: Ron Peterson

On Dec 11, 10:09 pm, lenona...@yahoo.com wrote:

> OK, so I guess my question now is, what are the general rules about
> when is it fair/polite to use a pejorative to describe someone's
> controlled spending habits?

It's not OK when you are asking for a handout for your pet cause.

On the other hand, when a child needs to buy a meal away from home,
the child should get enough to make a choice as to what to buy.

--
Ron

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 10:37 am
From: lenona321@yahoo.com

> I don't see why "stingy"
> is different from any other pejorative -

It's not, IMO. However, in the Miss Manners thread, as you can see
when you open it, someone said that "stingy" is not, in fact,
necessarily a pejorative! I don't agree, but I decided to rephrase the
question in hope of getting a real answer.

Here's part of what I said in the thread:

Granted, it WOULD be unloving for parents to spend money regularly on
luxuries for themselves but not their children, just as your
significant other would eventually get rightfully annoyed after
noticing more than once that you spend money generously on your
friends but not on dating excursions. (Assuming, of course, that that
person spends generously on you.)

And being rich does not mean one is obligated to, say, buy luxuries.

"Since I am known as a rich person, I feel I have to tip at least $5
each time I check my coat. On top of that, I would have to wear a very
expensive coat, and it would have to be insured. Added up, without a
topcoat, I save $20,000 a year."
Aristotle Onassis.

(end of excerpts)

I'm also thinking of the Newbery-winning 1967 book, "From the Mixed-Up
Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler." In that, 12-year-old runaway
Claudia is angry at her parents for not giving her a big enough
allowance for her to run away in luxury for more than a few hours.
(Her allowance, according to the online Inflation Calculator, is under
$3 per week - in Greenwich, CT.) Still not reasonable of her to think
that.

Lenona.

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 10:53 am
From: Clisby

lenona321@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I don't see why "stingy"
>> is different from any other pejorative -
>
> It's not, IMO. However, in the Miss Manners thread, as you can see
> when you open it, someone said that "stingy" is not, in fact,
> necessarily a pejorative! I don't agree, but I decided to rephrase the
> question in hope of getting a real answer.
>
> Here's part of what I said in the thread:
>
> Granted, it WOULD be unloving for parents to spend money regularly on
> luxuries for themselves but not their children, just as your
> significant other would eventually get rightfully annoyed after
> noticing more than once that you spend money generously on your
> friends but not on dating excursions. (Assuming, of course, that that
> person spends generously on you.)
>
> And being rich does not mean one is obligated to, say, buy luxuries.
>
> "Since I am known as a rich person, I feel I have to tip at least $5
> each time I check my coat. On top of that, I would have to wear a very
> expensive coat, and it would have to be insured. Added up, without a
> topcoat, I save $20,000 a year."
> Aristotle Onassis.
>
> (end of excerpts)
>
> I'm also thinking of the Newbery-winning 1967 book, "From the Mixed-Up
> Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler." In that, 12-year-old runaway
> Claudia is angry at her parents for not giving her a big enough
> allowance for her to run away in luxury for more than a few hours.
> (Her allowance, according to the online Inflation Calculator, is under
> $3 per week - in Greenwich, CT.) Still not reasonable of her to think
> that.
>

Reasonable or not, it has nothing to do with etiquette, so long as young
Claudia keeps her thoughts to herself.

> Lenona.
>
>

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 11:06 am
From: "Rod Speed"

Bill <billnomailnospamx@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I wouldn't say calling someone "stingy" would ever be "polite"! In my book, saying positive things or neutral things
> would be the polite thing to do.

> So far as what I would call stingy would be when someone have extra
> money they don't need for anything. I mean a LOT of money, and then
> they don't pay their fair share of something or don't pay what is
> expected of them. Like a tip for example. Say they have millions of
> dollars and tip 5% instead of the customary 10 to 15%. Or try to
> cheat an employee out of his pay.

Or even just being very stingy about what their kids get when they can afford to be less stingy.

Corse refusing to give the kids everything they demand, particularly when
its just the latest brand etc when they have what they need already isnt stingy.

> <lenona321@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> (I posted the following at the alt.fan.miss-manners newsgroup, but it
>> wasn't as productive as I'd hoped.)
>>
>>
>> That is, it seems to me that all too often, those who describe a
>> person or organization as "stingy" are just being pushy and grabby.
>>
>> After all, it's not "rude" for parents to give only the basics of
>> food, clothing, shelter and school supplies to their kids, especially
>> since they might be simply trying to encourage their kids to work for
>> what they want, so what real right do kids have even to THINK of
>> their parents as stingy?
>>
>> Now, if we're talking about struggling homeless people and what
>> they're not getting in terms of government help, that's different.
>>
>> Otherwise, I'm not sure it's really an acceptable word.
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.miss-manners/browse_thread/thread/2f8ebdb500fc2f8b#
>> (semi-productive thread that followed this question)
>>
>> Follow-up question:
>>
>> OK, so I guess my question now is, what are the general rules about
>> when is it fair/polite to use a pejorative to describe someone's
>> controlled spending habits?
>>
>>
>> Lenona.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 11:03 am
From: "Rod Speed"

lenona321@yahoo.com wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> lenona...@yahoo.com wrote

>>> (I posted the following at the alt.fan.miss-manners
>>> newsgroup, but it wasn't as productive as I'd hoped.)
>>> That is, it seems to me that all too often, those who describe a
>>> person or organization as "stingy" are just being pushy and grabby.

>> Neither of those are anything like stingy.

> I think you're confusing the accuser with the accusee.

Wasnt worded very well, but those doing that accusing doesnt have much at all to do
with being pushy, particularly if the characterisation of the stingy person is accurate.

The problem with grabby isnt as bad, but again if the characterisation of the stingy
person is accurate they arent actually being grabby, just saying what they think.

Still not very well said, but I dunno how to say it better.

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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/6e81495435a08a07?hl=en
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9bd66009f54a6efd?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Call or email White House and demand "no bailout money for auto makers".

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7e9dcd1c6da2e6b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 12:57 am
From: hpope@lycos.com

On Dec 12, 1:54 am, hp...@lycos.com wrote:
> http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
>
> Let the go Chapter 11 just like any other business requiring
> reorganization.
>
> mitch

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 4:26 am
From: "(¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯) NO FACTS Support RRR Cult's Hate-Agendas! "

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:57:04 -0800 (PST),
hpope@lycos.com wrote:
> hp...@lycos.com wrote:

>> http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
>>
>> Let them go Chapter 11 just like any other business requiring
>> reorganization.
>>
>> mitch

PRECISELY!! NO favoritism!!!

-- (¯`·.¸Craig Chilton¸.·´¯)

xanadu222@mchsi.com -- To E-Mail me. (Tell me first, in here.)
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== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 4:29 am
From: clams_casino

hpope@lycos.com wrote:

>On Dec 12, 1:54 am, hp...@lycos.com wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/
>>
>>Let the go Chapter 11 just like any other business requiring
>>reorganization.
>>
>>mitch
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Simple solution seems to be just curtailing all production at GM, Ford &
Chrysler until next May.

That should alleviate the 30% over capacity. Filing chapter 11 should
over ride the 95% pay for staying home.

Otherwise, the end result is that Ford will likely come out a strong,
viable domestic car company when GM folds.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: overdraft
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/338ed10d1ea2929c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 1:25 am
From: "Bill"

How did he know he had $80?

Was this because he frequently checks his available balance, keeps records
of all purchases and keeps a running balance, and knows the banks rules on
placing holds on checks?

Or did he know this just from memory?

"Jerry Trumball" wrote in message
> My nephew had $80 in his checking account.
> He deposited another $150.
>
> Then he wrote checks totaling $60.
> He got overdraft notices for those checks.
>
> He didn't understand. Neither did his mother. She went to the bank with
> him. The teller said they'd let it go this time, but next time he would
> have to pay because it's bank policy. He and his mother still don't
> understand.
>
> What's the bank doing?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 10:57 am
From: Jerry Trumball

phil scott wrote:
> On Dec 11, 12:16 pm, Jerry Trumball <J...@privacy.com> wrote:

>> I can imagine what happened. I'll bet he used a debit card. At one
>> time, a debit card would be refused for insufficient funds. The banking
>> industry quietly switched over, approving such purchases in order to
>> charge hefty overcharge fees.
>>
>> Still, how did he overcharge by spending $45 from an account with $360?
>> Banks cheat you by keeping a deposit on hold even after the check
>> clears. Still, there was $60. But if he bought $1 worth of gasoline,
>> they may have put $100 on hold for 48 hours or so, resulting in an
>> overdraft charge for every purchase made in that period. I wonder of
>> money is put on hold for purchases besides gasoline.
>>
>> Crooks. Is it the same bunch who got $700 billion for bringing down
>> Wall Street?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> yes, thats the scam alright....
>
> Phil scott

I've read up on authorization holds. Besides gas stations, hotels and
car rentals use holds that are higher than known charges. So do
restaurants, in case you put a tip on your card.
Authorization holds can last several days. When they don't last long,
that can also cause overdrafts. Monday morning, you go to a store and
buy $29.95 worth of stuff with a debit card. Initially, that's an
authorization hold, which may be listed as a pending transaction. The
merchant still has to submit the transaction for payment.

Suppose the bank has a 24 hour limit for holds. If he hasn't submitted
the transaction for payment Tuesday morning, the hold comes off.
Tuesday afternoon you go to an ATM, check your balance, and withdraw
money, leaving less than $29.95. If the merchant then submits the
transaction for payment, that's an overdraft.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: storing spices
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/efd68d1cb4d477b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 2:26 am
From: Clisby

Jack Ricci wrote:
> I buy very good quality spices from a small ethnic grocery store. The
> spices come in small pouches made of cellophane that fall apart when you
> open them. I would like to store them in small containers that I could
> reseal and that would keep the spices' flavor until needed. I realize
> that spices get stale quite fast, but still I would like to keep them
> for a reasonable period of time.
>
> Any suggestions? Thank you.

Old medicine bottles would work, but it could take awhile to collect
them. When I started buying bulk spices, I just used the old
supermarket spice containers that were left over - but I'm not
suggesting you pay the outrageous supermarket prices just to get spice
containers. I periodically see sets of glass spice jars at yard sales
- but you can't count on that. Glass baby food jars are a good size -
do you happen to know anyone who has a baby?

Clisby

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 7:33 am
From: Evelyn Leeper

Clisby wrote:
> Jack Ricci wrote:
>> I buy very good quality spices from a small ethnic grocery store. The
>> spices come in small pouches made of cellophane that fall apart when
>> you open them. I would like to store them in small containers that I
>> could reseal and that would keep the spices' flavor until needed. I
>> realize that spices get stale quite fast, but still I would like to
>> keep them for a reasonable period of time.
>> Any suggestions? Thank you.
>
> Old medicine bottles would work, but it could take awhile to collect
> them. When I started buying bulk spices, I just used the old
> supermarket spice containers that were left over - but I'm not
> suggesting you pay the outrageous supermarket prices just to get spice
> containers. I periodically see sets of glass spice jars at yard sales
> - but you can't count on that. Glass baby food jars are a good size -
> do you happen to know anyone who has a baby?

If you don't, but have freecycle in your area, you could try asking on it.

(I assume people reading this group know about freecycle.)

--
Evelyn C. Leeper
Be braver. You cannot cross a chasm in two small jumps.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ☼An Invitation ☼
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1fb437958c044bf1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 4:21 am
From: clams_casino

H.Aries wrote:

>Dear Friends,
>Our Club is recruiting New Members
>
>
>
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why not a holiday from auto buying?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/9e36c73bdf3daf50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 5:12 am
From: Anonymous Infidel - the anti-political talking head

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TOPIC: EARN 15,000$ /- PER MONTH
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0f0b5ef4b135f83c?hl=en
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TOPIC: 533,000 Jobs Lost While Feds Import 140,000 Foreign Workers!
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/a1526898a9ebc1d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 9:14 am
From: suds macheath

clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---Depends what they teach and at what level. Have you ever taught?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have not. My wife did for several years.
>>
>>
>> ----She couldn't take it anymore? But, it's *such* an easy job, with
>> excellent pay and benefits.....
>>
>
> We moved several times for my career, plus she didn't work while the
> kids were growing up. Getting certification in different states was
> more a bother than it was worth.

----Sure.....excellent pay and benefits....more trouble than it's worth...
>
> Pay for teachers in your backwoods area apparent pays poorly.

---Sure, 4th largest district in the country....

As I've
> pointed out several times (with references) it can be a very good paying
> job with benefits not found in standard 40 hr employment, but you
> obviously can't grasp anything more than 50 feet from your narrow little
> world.

----Yet, you can't seem to qualify for one of those excellent jobs.....

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 9:17 am
From: suds macheath

clams_casino wrote:
> suds macheath wrote:
>
>>
>> Your imaginary brother won't get the same percentage of his highest
>> pay level at 10 years service as I will at 30 years service....
>>
>
> Well Duh - What a moron.

---So says "clams", a slang for labia...

Reading comprehension problems as well as
> dense. You have my sympathy. Bye.

----Ta ta, Pussy Lips....

==============================================================================
TOPIC: when/where are the Christmas sales?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1e540ad7239f670a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 9:17 am
From: MarkPHd21@gmail.com

.
looking for something like Black Friday
[store or online]

i think i read the day after Xmas..?

thanks
marc

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 10:19 am
From: BigDog1

On Dec 12, 10:17 am, MarkPH...@gmail.com wrote:
> .
> looking for something like Black Friday
> [store or online]
>
> i think i read the day after Xmas..?
>
> thanks
> marc

I doubt you'll be seeing many, if any, Black Friday type after
Christmas sales. Most retailers have already cut their mark ups to
the bare minimum to keep the doors open. Those Black Friday door
buster items were sold at a loss to get the fools in the door, who
would then spend money even after the handful of "give aways" were
gone.

You may find a few stores deeply discounting a few items. But those
will probably be junk that no one wanted to put under the tree.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Dec 12 2008 10:25 am
From: clams_casino

BigDog1 wrote:

>On Dec 12, 10:17 am, MarkPH...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>.
>>looking for something like Black Friday
>>[store or online]
>>
>>i think i read the day after Xmas..?
>>
>>thanks
>>marc
>>
>>
>
>I doubt you'll be seeing many, if any, Black Friday type after
>Christmas sales. Most retailers have already cut their mark ups to
>the bare minimum to keep the doors open. Those Black Friday door
>buster items were sold at a loss to get the fools in the door, who
>would then spend money even after the handful of "give aways" were
>gone.
>
>You may find a few stores deeply discounting a few items. But those
>will probably be junk that no one wanted to put under the tree.
>
>

Read somewhere that the branded items will likely be shipped / dumped
out of the country where the manufacturers won't allow excessive price
reductions so they can protect their market pricing.

(Better to dump branded electronics, clothing, etc in South America, etc
vs. ruining US pricing.)

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Friday, December 12, 2008

misc.consumers.frugal-living - 26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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