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Today's topics:
* "Promote the general welfare of the United States" - doesn't mean what
leftists think - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3f1993b181e2faf4?hl=en
* cheap property in WV,KY,NC,TN? want to build unrestricted - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3a7cd02ab7dfe59e?hl=en
* There is no "right" to health care - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e14cb160c2e4a0dd?hl=en
* {Paypal Payment}Cheap wholesale brand fashion AAA True Leather,Purses,
Handbag (LV,Coach,Gucci,Juicy,Miumiu,Dior,Bos-s,Prada,ED Hardy,D&G,Versace,
Burberry...)www.wholesale789.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ab3f326591ea737b?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Promote the general welfare of the United States" - doesn't mean what
leftists think
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3f1993b181e2faf4?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:29 pm
From: Nickname unavailable
On Oct 9, 10:40 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> Tater Gumfries wrote:
> > On Oct 8, 12:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
> >> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
> >> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
> >> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>
> > That ain't what the founders said about it.
>
> It is.
nope,
this of course will mean nothing to a idiot, but the rest of us will
understand its truths, and how it applies to america, today.
you can see paines hand in the preamble, and constitution.
here is one for that stupid selfish fucker galt,
"In Agrarian Justice, he returned to the question of rights and social
justice. Civilization, he argued, should not throw people into a worse
condition than they would be in if they were uncivilized, and yet in
Europe many people were poorer than American Indians. The Earth had
been given by God as common property to all men, but the system of
land ownership meant that only some could use it. Paine argued that
they should compensate the others by paying a ground rent to society.
Also, he argued that no-one could produce riches without the support
of society, so anyone who accumulates property owes a part of it back
to society. This would provide funds for a social program that
included education, pensions, unemployment benefits, and maternity
benefits."
http://www.philosophers.co.uk/cafe/phil_dec2000.htm
Philosopher of the Month
December 2000 - Thomas Paine
Robin Harwood
The great and glorious Thomas Paine was a political theorist who tried
to put his theories into action. His aim was to free human beings from
oppressive government, oppressive religions, and oppressive poverty.
His method was to appeal to reason, so that all people could recognise
truth and justice. His achievements were spectacular. Paine invented
America, took part in the French Revolution, and inspired
revolutionary movements in Britain. The American Revolution was a
success, the French revolution was a disaster, and the British
Revolution never happened. Even so, Paine's ideas of democracy and
social welfare have been at least partly realized not only in these
countries, but in many other countries as well.
He was born in England, but his life there was difficult, and on
Benjamin Franklin's advice, he emigrated to the New World. Paine
arrived in Philadelphia in 1774, and took a job as editor for the
Pennsylvania Magazine. One of his first essays was a call for the
abolition of slavery. Inspired by the first moves of the American
Revolution, he wrote the pamphlet Common Sense (1776), in which he
argued that independence was both morally justified and the only
practical option for the American Colonies. The book was massively
influential, and converted many waverers, including Thomas Jefferson
and George Washington, to the idea of the United States of America
(Paine coined the name) as an independent nation.
After the War of Independence was over, he went to France, and then to
England, where he wrote The Rights of Man. Paine's message was clear
and powerful.
All individual human beings, he argued, are created with equal rights.
However, human beings do not live as isolated individuals, but as
members of society. In society we flourish fully, both because we can
enjoy the company of other people, and from being able to gain help
and support from each other. Nonetheless, human beings are not perfect
and so sometimes infringe each other's rights. As individuals we may
not have the power to exercise some of our rights, such as the right
to protect ourselves. Thus, we create the state to protect those
rights, and the individual's natural right is transformed into a civil
right of protection. Also, as members of the state, we gain additional
rights, such as the right to vote, and the right to run for office.
The only legitimate form of state is a democratic republic. Hereditary
monarchy is morally illegitimate, since it denies the current
generation the right to choose their own leaders.
Of course, Paine held that we also have duties. We have a duty to
protect the rights of our fellow citizens, and to maintain society,
but we also have to improve, enrich, and benefit society. This
includes the duty to eliminate poverty as much as we can. Paine
proposed a system of welfare to do just this. This welfare was not
charity, but a civil right.
The popularity of the book frightened the British Government. Paine
was outlawed for treason, and he fled to France. The British
revolutionary movements were squashed.
The French elected Paine to a seat in the National Convention. During
the Terror he was imprisoned and came close to being executed. After
his release, he took little active part in French politics, and
concentrated mostly on writing, particularly on religion and
economics. He produced The Age of Reason, arguing for Deism, and
against atheism and Christianity. He demonstrated that Christian
theology was unreasonable, and the doctrine of redemption was immoral.
He also showed that the Bible cannot be divine revelation, and
condemned it for its portrayal of God as cruel and vindictive.
In Agrarian Justice, he returned to the question of rights and social
justice. Civilization, he argued, should not throw people into a worse
condition than they would be in if they were uncivilized, and yet in
Europe many people were poorer than American Indians. The Earth had
been given by God as common property to all men, but the system of
land ownership meant that only some could use it. Paine argued that
they should compensate the others by paying a ground rent to society.
Also, he argued that no-one could produce riches without the support
of society, so anyone who accumulates property owes a part of it back
to society. This would provide funds for a social program that
included education, pensions, unemployment benefits, and maternity
benefits.
When Paine finally returned to America in 1802, his writings on
religion had made him an unpopular figure. Nonetheless, Paine did yet
another great service to his ungrateful country, in proposing that the
U.S.A. buy the Louisiana territory from Napoleon. Jefferson took
Paine's advice, and thus more than doubled the size of the United
States.
Paine carried on writing to the end, but his old age was miserable,
and he died in obscurity. Officialdom has preferred to ignore him,
even when carrying out his proposals, and his name is seldom on the
lists of great men, and yet many of his ideas are common currency now.
However, much of the world is still not completely free from political
oppression, organized religion, and poverty. We can still learn from
him.
Suggested reading
Thomas Paine, A. J. Ayer, (Secker and Warburg)
The
Thomas Paine Reader, ed. Michael Foot and Isaac Kramnick (Penguin)
Tom
Paine: a political life, John Keane, (Little, Brown and Company)
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 10:19 pm
From: K
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 9, 7:41 am, Gogarty <Goga...@Clongowes.edu.ie> wrote:
>> In article <JdqdnSG3ivinWlPXnZ2dnUVZ_vedn...@earthlink.com>, Kvisi...@live.con
>> says...
>>
>>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>>> On Oct 8, 1:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>>> wilson woods strikes again:) a country is only as healthy as its
>>>> citizens.
>>> The clause in Article I does not mean to promote any person's individual
>>> welfare. It means to promote the welfare of the nation as a political
>>> entity. That's what it means.
>> What is a nation that it should have a life distinct from its citizens whose
>> welfare is no concern of the nation?
>
> a aristocracy or dictatorship,
No.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 10:20 pm
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 9, 9:51 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
>>> K wrote:
>>>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 8, 1:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a
>>>>>> nation.
>>>>> wilson woods strikes again:) a country is only as healthy as its
>>>>> citizens.
>>>> The clause in Article I does not mean to promote any person's
>>>> individual welfare. It means to promote the welfare of the nation as
>>>> a political entity. That's what it means.
>>> I find Woods' argument compelling. Namely, healthy citizens
>> It does not provide a rationale for providing medical care to citizens.
>> The use of "welfare" in the Constitution doesn't provide a rationale
>> for Congress giving any goods and services to citizens.
>
> liar.
No. The use of the word "welfare" in the preamble and in Article I
doesn't mean what you want it to mean. It does not refer to the
material welfare of people.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 10:20 pm
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 9, 9:52 am, Wilson Woods <banm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Gogarty wrote:
>>> In article <JdqdnSG3ivinWlPXnZ2dnUVZ_vedn...@earthlink.com>, Kvisi...@live.con
>>> says...
>>>> Nickname unavailable wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 8, 1:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>>>> wilson woods strikes again:) a country is only as healthy as its
>>>>> citizens.
>>>> The clause in Article I does not mean to promote any person's individual
>>>> welfare. It means to promote the welfare of the nation as a political
>>>> entity. That's what it means.
>>> What is a nation that it should have a life distinct from its citizens whose
>>> welfare is no concern of the nation?
>> The use of the word welfare does not mean providing goods and services
>> to citizens.
>
> yes it does.
No, definitely it does not.
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 10:21 pm
From: Wilson Woods
Nickname unavailable wrote:
> On Oct 9, 10:40 am, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>> Tater Gumfries wrote:
>>> On Oct 8, 12:48 pm, K <Kvisi...@live.con> wrote:
>>>> The clause in Article I Section 8 does not mean to provide goods and
>>>> services to people. It means to promote welfare - the interests - of
>>>> the United States of America as a political entity - that is, as a nation.
>>> That ain't what the founders said about it.
>> It is.
>
> nope,
Yep.
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TOPIC: cheap property in WV,KY,NC,TN? want to build unrestricted
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3a7cd02ab7dfe59e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:46 pm
From: Tony Sivori
sr wrote:
> Thanks for the insight. I'll check into it. Is Lousiville, KY a safe
> place?
> thank you
> I've been looking at Columbia, KY. Than I see there are a lot of Meth
> Labs in some areas, that I have looked at, online. This hasn't hit
> that hard in Maine, yet. But, we are about 20 yrs. behind everyone else.
Like most cities, some areas are safer than others. There are meth
users and meth labs around here.
--
Tony Sivori
Due to spam, I'm filtering all Google Groups posters.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: There is no "right" to health care
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/e14cb160c2e4a0dd?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Oct 9 2009 9:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"
Jim_Higgins wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> me@privacy.net wrote:
>>> K <Kvisions@live.con> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You have no more "right" to health care than you have to a big
>>>> screen TV, Hawaiian holidays, a car, or a lobster dinner. You
>>>> don't have a "right" to goods or services. If you want goods and
>>>> services, you must pay for them, or you must persuade someone to
>>>> give them to you voluntarily. If your powers of persuasion are
>>>> weak, you'll fare poorly.
>>>>
>>>> That's simply how it is, and it's good and just.
>>> And you have no "right" to anything you own cause you
>>> did NOT create it
>>>
>>> It is all "on loan" from God and you are just
>>> "borrowing" it
>>>
>>> You didn't even create the plant that makes the cotton
>>> that your jeans are made! Nor did you create the
>>> person who sewed them together!
>>>
>>> All belongs to God
>>>
>>> You don't really "own" anything
>>
>> There is no god. Just an endless variety of crutches for
>> pathetically inadequate 'minds'
>
> Psalm 14:1
Just another steaming turd dropped by yet another swarthy fool many many years ago.
==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/ab3f326591ea737b?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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