Frugal Living: misc.consumers.frugal-living - 24 new messages in 13 topics

misc.consumers.frugal-living
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living?hl=en

misc.consumers.frugal-living@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Review: "How To Live Well Without Owning a Car - Save Money, Breathe
Easier, and Get More Mileage Out of Life" by Chris Balish
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/dff28f482d02ae5c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 3:31 pm
From: Phil W Lee

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> considered Sun, 1 Nov 2009
04:54:24 +1100 the perfect time to write:

>Scott in SoCal wrote:
>> Last time on misc.consumers, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net>
>> said:
>>
>>> Scott in SoCal wrote:
>>>> Last time on misc.consumers, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> said:
>>>>
>>>>> Kayak44 wrote:
>>>>>> He's not smug, he's just saying what everyone knows is true but
>>>>>> doesn't want to hear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I went for a few years with no car and winters here are just as
>>>>>> bad as anywhere else. Sure, it was difficult but not impossible.
>>>>>> Excuses are just that, excuses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I own a small SUV now because I'm selfish, don't like to be
>>>>>> inconvenienced and can afford it, but at least I'm honest about
>>>>>> it.
>>>>> You are cordially invited to my neck of the woods, where I would
>>>>> have to go a few miles just to catch a bus. And the route I would
>>>>> have to take - no thanks. I would need a concealed carry permit
>>>>> just to feel half-way safe. He is being smug, whether you want to
>>>>> admit it or not. Public transportation is not an option for
>>>>> everyone, no matter how you slice it.
>>>>
>>>> Where you live is a lifestyle choice, no matter how you slice it.
>>>
>>> It is generally dictated by income.
>
>> Even then you still have choices.
>
>Yes, but not necessarily any with viable public transport,
>particularly if you decide to own and not rent.
>
>>>> If you chose to make access to transit a priority you could do it,
>
>>> In New York city*, it is well known that identical quarters two
>>> blocks closer to public transport will be higher in price. What
>>> the automobile does is allow people to substitute for public
>>> transport, which is expensive because it's subsidized.
>
>> Transit only *seems* more expensive because it is subsidized LESS than
>> automobiles are.
>
>Wrong. There are plenty of situations where the cheapest
>cars are cheaper than the worst mass transit available
>and the cheapest cars arent subsidized by anyone.
>
So you use them exclusively on private roads?
If not, you are getting a subsidy.

That is even without reckoning the cost of the wars waged so that you
can enjoy cheap fuel.

>>> So what's really required is a wee bit of economic analysis.
>
>> A true analysis is impossible until you can either remove ALL
>> subsidies on ALL modes of transport, or at least identify and account
>> for ALL of them.
>
>Thats just plain wrong too, most obviously when the subsidy is so small that it becomes irrelevant.
>
>> With the convoluted system of taxes and fund raiding
>> that goes on this is basically an impossible task.
>
>Yes, but isnt actually necessary with the smallest subsidys.
>
I think you'll find that both of the subsidies I've mentioned exceed
the cost of the car - hardly "the smallest subsidys (sic)".

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 4:07 pm
From: "sr"

"Scott in SoCal" <scottenaztlan@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kdkoe59viimf6da0gu95vhpp28eg04t9fa@4ax.com...
> Last time on misc.consumers, Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net>
> said:
>
>>Scott in SoCal wrote:
>>> Last time on misc.consumers, Marsha <mas@xeb.net> said:
>>>
>>>> Kayak44 wrote:
>>>>> He's not smug, he's just saying what everyone knows is true but
>>>>> doesn't want to hear.
>>>>>
>>>>> I went for a few years with no car and winters here are just as bad as
>>>>> anywhere else. Sure, it was difficult but not impossible. Excuses are
>>>>> just that, excuses.
>>>>>
>>>>> I own a small SUV now because I'm selfish, don't like to be
>>>>> inconvenienced and can afford it, but at least I'm honest about it.
>>>> You are cordially invited to my neck of the woods, where I would have
>>>> to
>>>> go a few miles just to catch a bus. And the route I would have to take
>>>> - no thanks. I would need a concealed carry permit just to feel
>>>> half-way safe. He is being smug, whether you want to admit it or not.
>>>> Public transportation is not an option for everyone, no matter how you
>>>> slice it.
>>>
>>> Where you live is a lifestyle choice, no matter how you slice it.
>>
>>It is generally dictated by income.
>
> Even then you still have choices.
>
>>> If
>>> you chose to make access to transit a priority you could do it,
>>
>>In New York city*, it is well known that identical quarters two
>>blocks closer to public transport will be higher in price. What
>>the automobile does is allow people to substitute for public
>>transport, which is expensive because it's subsidized.
>
> Transit only *seems* more expensive because it is subsidized LESS than
> automobiles are.
>
>>So what's really required is a wee bit of economic analysis.
>
> A true analysis is impossible until you can either remove ALL
> subsidies on ALL modes of transport, or at least identify and account
> for ALL of them. With the convoluted system of taxes and fund raiding
> that goes on this is basically an impossible task.
=you don't know what you pay for the roads up here in Maine, because the
road funding is put into the general fund and the transportation fund is
always broke. You know, something like the Federal Soc. Sec. Fund full of
IOUs. If anyone ran a business the way these crooks run the governments,
they would be in jail with Madoff. why they aren't , "that is the question"

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 8:59 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Phil W Lee wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Scott in SoCal wrote
>>> Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net> wrote
>>>> Scott in SoCal wrote
>>>>> Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote
>>>>>> Kayak44 wrote

>>>>>>> He's not smug, he's just saying what everyone knows is true but doesn't want to hear.

>>>>>>> I went for a few years with no car and winters here are just as
>>>>>>> bad as anywhere else. Sure, it was difficult but not impossible.
>>>>>>> Excuses are just that, excuses.

>>>>>>> I own a small SUV now because I'm selfish, don't like to be
>>>>>>> inconvenienced and can afford it, but at least I'm honest about it.

>>>>>> You are cordially invited to my neck of the woods, where I would
>>>>>> have to go a few miles just to catch a bus. And the route I
>>>>>> would have to take - no thanks. I would need a concealed carry
>>>>>> permit just to feel half-way safe. He is being smug, whether
>>>>>> you want to admit it or not. Public transportation is not an
>>>>>> option for everyone, no matter how you slice it.

>>>>> Where you live is a lifestyle choice, no matter how you slice it.

>>>> It is generally dictated by income.

>>> Even then you still have choices.

>> Yes, but not necessarily any with viable public transport,
>> particularly if you decide to own and not rent.

>>>>> If you chose to make access to transit a priority you could do it,

>>>> In New York city*, it is well known that identical quarters two
>>>> blocks closer to public transport will be higher in price. What
>>>> the automobile does is allow people to substitute for public
>>>> transport, which is expensive because it's subsidized.

>>> Transit only *seems* more expensive because
>>> it is subsidized LESS than automobiles are.

>> Wrong. There are plenty of situations where the cheapest
>> cars are cheaper than the worst mass transit available
>> and the cheapest cars arent subsidized by anyone.

> So you use them exclusively on private roads?

Corse not.

> If not, you are getting a subsidy.

Nope, the roads I do use them on are paid for by the taxes I pay.

> That is even without reckoning the cost of the
> wars waged so that you can enjoy cheap fuel.

I pay for those wars out of the taxes I pay too.

>>>> So what's really required is a wee bit of economic analysis.

>>> A true analysis is impossible until you can either remove ALL
>>> subsidies on ALL modes of transport, or at least identify and
>>> account for ALL of them.

>> Thats just plain wrong too, most obviously when the subsidy is so
>> small that it becomes irrelevant.

>>> With the convoluted system of taxes and fund raiding
>>> that goes on this is basically an impossible task.

>> Yes, but isnt actually necessary with the smallest subsidys.

> I think you'll find that both of the subsidies I've mentioned exceed
> the cost of the car

Yes, but I pay for that with the tax I pay, so no subsidy.

> - hardly "the smallest subsidys (sic)".

I JUST said the smallest subsidys dont need to be calculated.

And you (sic) cuts no mustard either, I choose to spell that way. You get to like that or lump it.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:39 pm
From: Phil W Lee

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> considered Sun, 1 Nov 2009
14:59:19 +1100 the perfect time to write:

>Phil W Lee wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Scott in SoCal wrote
>>>> Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.net> wrote
>>>>> Scott in SoCal wrote
>>>>>> Marsha <mas@xeb.net> wrote
>>>>>>> Kayak44 wrote
>
>>>>>>>> He's not smug, he's just saying what everyone knows is true but doesn't want to hear.
>
>>>>>>>> I went for a few years with no car and winters here are just as
>>>>>>>> bad as anywhere else. Sure, it was difficult but not impossible.
>>>>>>>> Excuses are just that, excuses.
>
>>>>>>>> I own a small SUV now because I'm selfish, don't like to be
>>>>>>>> inconvenienced and can afford it, but at least I'm honest about it.
>
>>>>>>> You are cordially invited to my neck of the woods, where I would
>>>>>>> have to go a few miles just to catch a bus. And the route I
>>>>>>> would have to take - no thanks. I would need a concealed carry
>>>>>>> permit just to feel half-way safe. He is being smug, whether
>>>>>>> you want to admit it or not. Public transportation is not an
>>>>>>> option for everyone, no matter how you slice it.
>
>>>>>> Where you live is a lifestyle choice, no matter how you slice it.
>
>>>>> It is generally dictated by income.
>
>>>> Even then you still have choices.
>
>>> Yes, but not necessarily any with viable public transport,
>>> particularly if you decide to own and not rent.
>
>>>>>> If you chose to make access to transit a priority you could do it,
>
>>>>> In New York city*, it is well known that identical quarters two
>>>>> blocks closer to public transport will be higher in price. What
>>>>> the automobile does is allow people to substitute for public
>>>>> transport, which is expensive because it's subsidized.
>
>>>> Transit only *seems* more expensive because
>>>> it is subsidized LESS than automobiles are.
>
>>> Wrong. There are plenty of situations where the cheapest
>>> cars are cheaper than the worst mass transit available
>>> and the cheapest cars arent subsidized by anyone.
>
>> So you use them exclusively on private roads?
>
>Corse not.
>
>> If not, you are getting a subsidy.
>
>Nope, the roads I do use them on are paid for by the taxes I pay.

And by the taxes of those who do not use them.
>
>> That is even without reckoning the cost of the
>> wars waged so that you can enjoy cheap fuel.
>
>I pay for those wars out of the taxes I pay too.

You must pay a lot of tax, if you fund all that by yourself.
>
>>>>> So what's really required is a wee bit of economic analysis.
>
>>>> A true analysis is impossible until you can either remove ALL
>>>> subsidies on ALL modes of transport, or at least identify and
>>>> account for ALL of them.
>
>>> Thats just plain wrong too, most obviously when the subsidy is so
>>> small that it becomes irrelevant.
>
>>>> With the convoluted system of taxes and fund raiding
>>>> that goes on this is basically an impossible task.
>
>>> Yes, but isnt actually necessary with the smallest subsidys.
>
>> I think you'll find that both of the subsidies I've mentioned exceed
>> the cost of the car
>
>Yes, but I pay for that with the tax I pay, so no subsidy.

You clearly have little idea of how that works - would you get a
rebate if you didn't use those roads?
>
>> - hardly "the smallest subsidys (sic)".
>
>I JUST said the smallest subsidys dont need to be calculated.
>
>And you (sic) cuts no mustard either, I choose to spell that way. You get to like that or lump it.
>
You choose to understand it so poorly that you can't even spell it.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 1 2009 12:01 am
From: terryc

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:51:51 -0400, sr wrote:

> I think you must be a city dweller, totally insufficient for survival.

Not always the case. country dweller can become complacent and die as a
result. Some city dwellers research and get prepared and survive.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Frugal Carpet Cleaning Solution For Steam Cleaners?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/514d24c73ddda3cf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 4:04 pm
From: "Lou"

I wouldn't use vinegar for fear of the smell lingering for days, weeks,
months...

If you're going to rent (or for that matter, buy) a carpet cleaning machine,
it seems to me only common sense to use whatever cleaning solution is made
to go with the machine. Machine plus solution has to be cheaper than buying
and installing new carpet.

You don't say if the carpet you want to clean is wall-to-wall, the kind
that's tacked down. If it's not, take the carpet outside, hand it up, and
beat the dirt out of it.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 9:19 pm
From: hchickpea@hotmail.com

On Sat, 31 Oct 2009 15:30:30 -0500, "Tiziano" <nospam@example.com>
wrote:

>I am planning on renting one of those RugDoctor carpet cleaners from
>Wal-Mart but would like to avoid purchasing their cleaning solution too...
>
>This site:
>http://frugalliving.about.com/od/householdsavings/qt/Carpet_Cleaner.htm
>recommends using equal parts of white vinegar and warm water in order to
>make some cheap carpet cleaning solution. Any comments on that? Other
>alternatives to white vinegar? (I am a little bit worried that white
>vinegar will stink up the whole carpet and place...)
>
>Thanks.

If the rug was previously cleaned with a rug shampooer, all you need
is warm water. The soap from shampooers remains in the carpet.
Otherwise, HE (high efficiency) laundry detergent plus a little
isopropyl alcohol will clean. The important point is not to use too
much, and to spray first to allow the cleaner to work before sucking
it back out.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 10:42 pm
From: "Annie Woughman"

"Tiziano" <nospam@example.com> wrote in message
news:hci7bl$o6s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>I am planning on renting one of those RugDoctor carpet cleaners from
>Wal-Mart but would like to avoid purchasing their cleaning solution too...
>
> This site:
> http://frugalliving.about.com/od/householdsavings/qt/Carpet_Cleaner.htm
> recommends using equal parts of white vinegar and warm water in order to
> make some cheap carpet cleaning solution. Any comments on that? Other
> alternatives to white vinegar? (I am a little bit worried that white
> vinegar will stink up the whole carpet and place...)
>
> Thanks.
> --
The professionals use one part plain cheapo household ammonia to three parts
water in all their commercial carpet cleaning. I've tried it and it works
pretty good. I prefer to do it in the summer time and leave all the windows
open (it dries faster then too) and don't drench the carpet--to much water
isn't good for the carpet or the pad. Ammonia stinks worse than vinegar but
the smell quickly dissipates.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: REVERSE MORTGAGES Can Reverse Seniors' Peace of Mind! Don't Be A Sucker!

http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/0473fdfcc503264d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 4:31 pm
From: "sr"

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7l3ko1F3b9j0tU1@mid.individual.net...
> sr wrote:
>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:7l3ck7F3arfoaU1@mid.individual.net...
snip to save bandwidth>
> I prefer it freshly swept with bare feet but dont bother unless its very
> bad.
>
>> I have floorcloths on the floors, I have made over the years. Don't want
>> the patterns to wear off from abrasion of the dirt.
>
> I dont bother with mats, just bare concrete and quarry tiles.
>
>> But, I'm simplifing my life, just plain concrete, next time around,
>
> Yeah, I havent bothered to lay the quarry tiles in quite a bit of the
> house, (Sounds beautiful)

> even tho I have them in a couple of big piles. Just stick with the bare
> concrete.
>
>> soon , I hope; if, I can find some fool to buy this place.
>
>> Any fools out there, I got a bargain for you!
>
> Trouble is that there is so much HUD stuff on the market currently.
Point taken, had the same thought,
I just heard the Federal Government, with all their wisdom, is going to
extend the 8,000 rebate for housing, so suckers like me will have a more
difficult time finding bargains. Altho' there are plenty of foreclosures on
the web.
=
got to bother you again for interputation

(I've just started using an electric throw in winter. Works very well
indeed.)
Now, I've heard of a snow "thrower" what is an electric thrower?
If it's some sort of electric heat? how much is your rate per k? Is
electricity rates low? Just curious. Not that there is a darn thing I can do
about elec. rates.
Other than that one episode, is your friend reasonably smart? ----
Your friend provided a good story to tell, esp. since he survived! 'Ain't
life grand!
Cooling off, either in the sleeping bag or start up the woodstove. Might get
a downdraft with the wind whipping, so------

>
>
>
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 9:16 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

sr wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7l3ko1F3b9j0tU1@mid.individual.net...
>> sr wrote:
>>> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7l3ck7F3arfoaU1@mid.individual.net...
> snip to save bandwidth>
>> I prefer it freshly swept with bare feet but dont bother unless its
>> very bad.
>>
>>> I have floorcloths on the floors, I have made over the years. Don't want the patterns to wear off from abrasion of
>>> the dirt.
>>
>> I dont bother with mats, just bare concrete and quarry tiles.
>>
>>> But, I'm simplifing my life, just plain concrete, next time around,
>>
>> Yeah, I havent bothered to lay the quarry tiles in quite a bit of the
>> house, (Sounds beautiful)
>
>> even tho I have them in a couple of big piles. Just stick with the
>> bare concrete.
>>
>>> soon , I hope; if, I can find some fool to buy this place.
>>
>>> Any fools out there, I got a bargain for you!
>>
>> Trouble is that there is so much HUD stuff on the market currently.
> Point taken, had the same thought,
> I just heard the Federal Government, with all their wisdom, is going
> to extend the 8,000 rebate for housing, so suckers like me will have
> a more difficult time finding bargains. Altho' there are plenty of
> foreclosures on the web.
> =
> got to bother you again for interputation
>
> (I've just started using an electric throw in winter. Works very well
> indeed.)
> Now, I've heard of a snow "thrower" what is an electric thrower?

Trow, not thrower.

An electric blanket that you wrap around youself when sitting in an armchair or on the sofa etc.

> If it's some sort of electric heat? how much is your rate per k?

Currently 15c but it doesnt matter much with electric blankets, they dont use much.

> Is electricity rates low?

Not anymore.

> Just curious.

Dont forget what the did to the cat.

> Not that there is a darn thing I can do about elec. rates.

> Other than that one episode, is your friend reasonably smart? ----

Nar, not mechanically. I always used to cringe when he slammed the
door on the 7 track mag tape drive on the computer system I ran.

He was the one that thought it was a brilliant idea to paint the outside of
his concrete block house with literally a broom and a big bucket of paint.

He's other one that I infected with house building, although that was
the only physical work he did on the house apart from the design.

> Your friend provided a good story to tell, esp. since he survived!
> 'Ain't life grand!
> Cooling off, either in the sleeping bag or start up the woodstove.
> Might get a downdraft with the wind whipping, so------

OK, see ya.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: U.S. government to steal one hour
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/66bbefd054bc4339?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 5:46 pm
From: rocket scientist

it's not fair. ;)

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 8:01 pm
From: gheston@hiwaay.net (Gary Heston)

In article <georgespamk-E25934.16465331102009@news.isp.giganews.com>,
rocket scientist <georgespamk@toast.net> wrote:
>it's not fair. ;)

They're only borrowing it for a few months; you'll get it back in
the spring.

Gary

--
Gary Heston gheston@hiwaay.net http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/
"Where large, expensive pieces of exotic woods are converted to valueless,
hard to dispose of sawdust, chips and scraps." Charlie B.s' definition of
woodworking.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 10:03 pm
From: Joe Negron

On 2009-11-01, Gary Heston <gheston@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>In article <georgespamk-E25934.16465331102009@news.isp.giganews.com>,
>rocket scientist <georgespamk@toast.net> wrote:
>>it's not fair. ;)
>
>They're only borrowing it for a few months; you'll get it back in
>the spring.

For what purpose? Isn't it, by now, counterproductive?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman, of the next
generation.
--J.F. Clarke

War is good for business - invest your son.
--antiwar bumper sticker from the 1960s
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Negron from Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, NY, USA

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 10:35 pm
From: "Annie Woughman"

"Gary Heston" <gheston@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:2eSdnbw-e7KDZ3HXnZ2dnUVZ_jGdnZ2d@posted.hiwaay2...
> In article <georgespamk-E25934.16465331102009@news.isp.giganews.com>,
> rocket scientist <georgespamk@toast.net> wrote:
>>it's not fair. ;)
>
> They're only borrowing it for a few months; you'll get it back in
> the spring.
>
>
> Gary
>
You have that backwards. They borrowed it last spring and are giving it
back now. You have an extra hour to sleep tonight.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Making low cost hand cleaner
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/978fd7cf6b7a8df5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 5:17 pm
From: Grimly Curmudgeon

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "John" <Who90nospam@ntlworld.com>
saying something like:

>Frightening to use the Gents toilets and see how many men don't wash their
>hands - even when leaving the crapper. Noticed in supermarkets and pubs.
>Ugh!

No shortage of dirty bastards in the world.
I've noticed a surprising uptake of the hand-wash IPA gel that was left
on food counters recently, in the swine flu hysteria.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: List of product recalls
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/01007c42a9d4c90d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 5:40 pm
From: zeez

Recall Roundup: Extra Scary Edition
By Laura Northrup, 1:00 PM on Sat Oct 31 2009, 2,234 views

It's Halloween, and what's scarier than exploding DVD player batteries
and killer flatware? Or dairy lurking in an innocent-looking tortilla?
What about a zombie ATV that accelerates on its own?

Cambridge Silversmiths flatware: Plastic inserts can detach; choking
hazard
Coby Electronics portable DVD/CD/MP3 player batteries - fire hazard
Haunted House candle holders sold at Yankee candle - fire hazard
Bad Boy Buggy off-road vehicles - has rogue accelerator
Handy Switch Wireless Light Switches - fire hazard (see this post)
Roman shades sold at Bed Bath and Beyond and Whole Space -
strangulation hazard
Roller blinds from IKEA - strangulation hazard
Belkin SurgeMaster Surge Protectors - electric shock hazard
Sony VAIO AC adapters - electric shock hazard
Halloween flashlights from Target - burn hazard
Kroger Hazelnut Spread - undeclared peanuts
Agro Sun Dried Fruits and Nuts Tropical Mix - undeclared sulfites
Breyers All Natural ice cream - undeclared wheat
Dove Caramel Pecan Perfection Ice Cream - undeclared peanuts
Mrs. Rios and Pop's Bakery tortillas - undeclared dairy
Accusure Insulin Syringes - needles may detach

The CPSC has also put out a warning about My Baby Soother pacifiers,
which apparently pose a choking hazard. However, the manufacturer will
not recall the product, which was sold only in the New York metro
area.

http://consumerist.com/5394152/recall-roundup-extra-scary-edition

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 6:20 pm
From: Al

On Oct 31, 7:40 pm, zeez <blinkingblyth...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recall Roundup: Extra Scary Edition
> By Laura Northrup, 1:00 PM on Sat Oct 31 2009, 2,234 views
It must be tough living life a a pathetic panic stricken individual.
Lots of luck getting help with that.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wireless Speakers
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/7a4dd76086357f32?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 7:36 pm
From: Questor

Understanding Audio equiptment is new to me but this is the
information that I have so far. A Listen LT 800 broadcasts at
216.1250 Mhz. Can that be picked up on an ordinary radio? If not,
are there wireless speakers that are tuned to that frequency? We want
to put them in halls and classrooms.

Any leads appreciated. Bestbuy put me on hold and I gave up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wholesale your best with replica handbags online
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/27a807964993739c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 7:43 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: cure all diseases at http://www.cidpusa.org doctor evaluation for $15
any disorder
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/1a53c9dee46ced7b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 8:06 pm
From: "Cum Guzzler (Azz Pizz Institute)"

Jennifer <imran.khanmd@gmail.com> wrote in news:afe9fa89-d364-4299-99c8-
18bad62155c9@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com:

> cure all diseases at http://SPAMMER.M.D. doctor evaluation for $15
> any disorder
>

I wish it was that easy, no need for all this health care mess

--
Azz Pizz Institute
The OFFICIAL Verbal Diarrhea Think Tank (tm)
Washington, DC

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In what way are you LEAST frugal?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/18003f4ff7c65165?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 8:47 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

Rally2xs wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rally2xs wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote

>>>>> or afair tax.

>>>> Thats what a progressive income tax is.

>>>>> Afair taxwould allow people to decide how much taxes
>>>>> they pay, by deciding how many things they buy.

>>>> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.

>>>>> If they decide to do without, or keep making do
>>>>> with something older, they would pay fewer taxes.

>>>> Even sillier with those on the lowest incomes that dont get to do that.

>>> Have you read about thefair tax?

>> Yep.

>>> The poor don't even pay it.

>> Depends on what you call the poor.

> poor <= poverty level.

Thats just playing with words. There is no 'poverty level'
that separates the real poor from everyone else. Plenty
who are below the 'poverty level' arent actually poor at all.

>>> Even better, they 1) Get to keep every cent they make and
>>> 2) Experience about a 22% discount over what they're paying now for
>>> goods and services manufactured, mined, or grown in this country.

>> Not even possible to raise the amount currently raised in taxes that way.

> Well, that's rather off-handed.

Its a fact.

> People with PHD's after their names say we can.

I know plenty of fools with PhDs.

> What makes you think we can't?

The sales tax rate required to be revenue neutral is so high that it isnt viable.

>> And it only applys to federal income tax anyway, doesnt do
>> a damned thing about the very substantial property taxes
>> that most USians pay directly or indirectly in their rent etc.

> Nope, but the poperty tax is not what's driving jobs overseas. The income tax is.

Pig ignorant lie.

What is driving SOME jobs overseas is the fact that americans
are paid a hell of a lot more than what is paid to the lowest paid
workers in places like china and no change to the US tax system
will ever do a damned thing about that massive difference.

> Getting rid of the corporate income tax will be a large factor
> in keeping jobs here, and gettng the ones that left to return.

Pig ignorant lie. The countrys that have no corporate income
tax STILL buy their low cost consumer goods from china.

>>> It's WAY better than the supposed "progressive" income tax.

>> Nope. And there is nothing supposed about the progressive
>> income tax that all modern first and second world countrys have.

> Is.

Isnt.

> And the income tax is not as progressive as the Fair Tax.

Another lie. The other very fundamental problme with the 'fair tax' which
is in fact nothing even remotely resembling anything like fair, is that
there is just ONE break in the tax scale, the value of the prebate.

> That is, unless you want to use the tax system to really stick it to the rich.

That doesnt work either, they just move their money out of the
country and that fucks employment very comprehensively indeed.

> The Fair Tax is not good for punishing anyone.

It punishes the economy, stupid. Esssentially because it punished
the prices everyone pays with a massive visible sales tax and that
substantially slashes consumer spending. In spades with the more
expensive stuff that consumers buy, houses and cars.

>>> It's actually a subsidy for the poor.

>> Why should those who choose to be poor by not bothering to work be subsidised ?

> They are working, most of 'em,

Another lie. A massive percentage of the population does
not in fact work at all, even if you just count the adults.

> they just don't make jack squat for wages in this idiot "service economy."

Nothing idiot about it. We will never again see any modern first
or second world country with a significant percentage of work in
manufacturing, just like we wont see that in agriculture ever again either.

You clowns are furiously living in the past that LONG gone now, never to return.

Your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax wont get manufacturing jobs back from china,
essentially because the chinese are paid vastly less than the US minimum wage.

In spades than what auto 'workers' etc are paid.

>>> Nobody ever pays the fullfair taxrate (23% the 1st year, close to that
>>> subsequent years) buy Bill Gates might pay maybe 22.999999999%.

>> Bill Gates is completely irrelevant to real world tax regimes.

> Well, its the Democrats that always start whining about
> "The Rich" every time anyone talks about the Fair Tax,

Who cares ? Those fools have never ever had a fucking clue either.

'the rich' are a tiny part of the total tax take, basically because there are so few of them.

> and I can't think of anyone richer, so used him.

More fool you. What matters is the total income tax take from 'the rich'

> But anyway, the poverty level for a family of 4 is about $26,000,

Mindlessly superficial, most obviously with those that
own their own house and dont have a very big income,
but who grow their own food etc. Those are anything
even remotely resembling anything like 'in poverty'

> so a family of 4 making $52,000 only pays
> 1/2 the fair tax rate, effectively, as a maximum.

Which is a hell of a lot more than those on that income currently pay in income tax.

> If they buy anything used, they pay even less. A family of 4 at $78,000
> pays only 2/3rds the Fair Tax rate. Etc. Its a _very_ progressive tax.

And completely fucked, because of its effect on what people pay for cars and houses etc.

Which just happen to be items that are mostly still made in america.

>>> With thefair tax, we could bring prosperity back to the USA

>> Nope, far too many would choose to be poor and bludge off everyone else.

> And I say they wouldn't.

More fool you. Hordes are ALREADY doing that RIGHT NOW.

Your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax would make that MUCH worse.

> There's tons of ex-factory workers that would work like
> dogs if they could just get a job that they know how to do.

And your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax wouldnt give them a single job.

> Bring factories back,

Your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax wouldnt bring back even a single factory,
essentially because the factorys in china and india pay VASTLY less than
the american minimum wage, in spades than say auto 'workers' get paid.

> and there's people that will get some ladders and hand tools
> and plumb and wire it up faster than you can say Jack Robinson.

They already do with the current tax system when there isnt
a gross overhang of defaulted mortgages overhang the market.

> Just don't expect 'em to "retrain" to do prostate specific
> antigen tests in a laboratory, 'cuz it ain't gonna happen.

Dont need to. The unemployment rate bottomed at 4.x% with an
immense legal and illegal immigration rate just before the clowns
completely imploded the entire world financial system, AGAIN.

> That's just not who they are.

Plenty of other work they can do.

And your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax will completely cripple
sales of cars and houses and massive numbers that will
work in those areas will be out of a job ANYWAY.

> If we don't get back jobs where people can work with their
> hands, instead of having to have this elite workforce that
> can do calculus and program computers and such, we're
> going to have a permanent underclass in this country.

That is always the case in every first and second world country.

Primarily those who choose not to work and who bludge on welfare.

And there must have been vast numbers of individuals that do stuff
thats a hell of a lot easier than calculus and program computers
and such to see the unemployment rate bottom at 4.x% with an
immense legal and illegal immigration rate just before the clowns
completely imploded the entire world financial system, AGAIN.

> That's bad for them 'cuz poverty sucks

Yes, but plenty volunteer for welfare anyway and your stupid
Grossly Unfair Tax will produce a hell of a lot more of them
because it will completely cripple the sales of cars and houses etc.

It wont have any real effect that matters on the price of the lowest price
consumer goods from china, essentially because those are so cheap.

> and it's bad for us because we end up supporting them to at least a certain extent.

You correctly point out that your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax
'supports' them even more than the current system does,
essentially because there is a massive handout to those tho
currently pay very little income tax because their income is low.

> It drags the whole country down.

And your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax will completely fuck the
economy and see a hell of a lot more in genteel 'poverty'
working from home flogging stuff on the net etc, essentially
because those would then be paying no federal income tax at all.

A hell of a lot more of them would grow their own food, because
your stupid Grossly Unfair Tax would not tax that food at all.

>>> - the prosperity that the income tax has been choking
>>> out of the country for the last 50 years or so.

>> Mindlessly silly. Prosperity hasnt been anything even remotely resembling choked off.

> Not by a long shot. Prosperity is flagging and getting worse.

Pig ignorant lie. The unemployment rate bottom at 4.x% with an
immense legal and illegal immigration rate just before the clowns
completely imploded the entire world financial system, AGAIN,
and thats the main determinant of prosperity, having a job.

And the houses and cars people were buying just before
the clowns completely imploded the entire world financial
system, AGAIN, proves in spades that real prosperity was
nothing even remotely like flagging and getting worse.

> The last big thing that allowed Americans to earn a big income was
> the software development that went overseas about 10 years ago.

Another bare faced pig ignorant lie. Huge numbers of professionals
have very high incomes, most obviously with doctors, lawyers,
bankers etc etc etc and fuck all of that ever left the country.

> Go to your Borders Bookstore or Barnes and Noble books.
> Find the computer section. Pitiful, isn't it?

Because we need fuck all in the way of new PC software
and real programmers dont need books from Borders
Bookstore or Barnes and Noble to write software.

> There AREN'T any big-paying jobs even for the
> intellectually elite, unles they've got a masters or better.

Another bare faced pig ignorant lie, most obviously with doctors,
lawyers, bankers, CEOs, the best salesmen, etc etc etc.

> Back in the 60's, a man could be prosperous all by himself while working
> a factory job, supporting his family while his wife stayed home.

Still can with non factory jobs that pay the same amount.

> Now it takes both husband and wife working,

Pig ignorant lie.

> and sometimes one or more working two jobs, to be able to live that way.

Pig ignorant lie. Thats actually paying for much bigger
houses and many more cars than those in the 60s had.

> And that isn't even comparable, since the family in the 60's had more
> leisure time. Hard to take a family vacation from 2 or 3 jobs at once.

Completely trivial even with both working.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Could you live without clothes dryer? Washer only?
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/c7faadfffe8e6e11?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 8:50 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

rocket scientist wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Susan Bugher wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>> I said "Line dried clothes are stiff and "boardy" if you don't
>>> have a good breezy drying day or if you dry them indoors."

>> There's much better ways to quote than that.

>>>> None of mine are, so it must be the clothes etc you choose to wear.

>>> Do you often make these wild leaps to silly conclusions?

>> Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.

>>> (I note that you wrote in another post that you have good weather
>>> for your outdoor line-drying => lots of those "good breezy drying days".
>>> I guess you stopped reading what I wrote before you got to the "if".)

>> Guess again. I never ever said that its always breezy when I line dry, fool.

>> Lets go thru this very very slowly for the terminally stupid.

>> My clothes are not stiff and boardy when I line dry them on days with no wind at all.

> we dry outside on a nice day. No laws against that .... yet !
> when it turns rainey , like today, we have "laundry land" .. that is .
> in come the clothes and they get hung up near the wood stove.

I have enough clothes so I dont need to wash when there is any possibility of rain.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: the "economy" and "good news" .
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/3fcb3ffec8403ec3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 8:53 pm
From: "Rod Speed"

rocket scientist wrote:
> By Miral Fahmy Fri Oct 30, 12:59 am ET
> SINGAPORE (Reuters) It seems the financial crisis isn't all doom and
> gloom: one in four people are glad the world's economy slumped like it
> did, because it helped them realize their priorities in life, according to a global survey.

> Market research firm Synovate polled around 11,400 people across the
> world and found more than half had permanently changed their attitudes
> toward money over the last 12 months.

And it remains to be seen how much of that claimed permanent change actually is.

The great depression certainly did produce a permanent change in attitude in many, but its
unlikely that the current recession will, it hasnt even reached double digits unemployment.

Some countrys like Australia didnt even get a technical recession
or much of a change in the unemployment rate either.

> for the rest of the story;
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091030/lf_nm_life/us_money_survey;_ylt=Agqrn
> UJdgrJW1gM.N2JQTMKs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTJjYTFvb2RlBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMDkxMDMwL3Vz
> X21vbmV5X3N1cnZleQRwb3MDNwRzZWMDeW5fbW9zdF9wb3B1bGFyBHNsawN0aGFua2hlYXZlb
> nM-

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DC to AC to DC
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.consumers.frugal-living/t/5872826a6662376f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Oct 31 2009 11:55 am
From: "Dave C."

> >
> >For two laptops, get a 400W dual-outlet model. -Dave
>
> FWIW, you can also get a driect to laptop car cord for somewhere
> around $100 at the office supply stores.

A 400W inverter costs less than that, and can be used for other stuff
besides laptops. Oh, and you'd have to buy two of the $100 car cords
to run two laptops. -Dave

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